Hi,
Yes this picture is at a museum in London, I have studyed it there in person
a coupple of times. The size of the picture dissapointed me a little, as it
is a very small picture. Its a lovely dress.
Bjarne
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
Hi,
Its difficult to say. There are small flower carriers survived from the
period. Stuck down into the bodice opening with fresh water to carry fresh
flowers. It was very fashionable with flowers. In Denmark many of the
flowers were imported from Italy made of porcelain.
Bjarne
-
Hi,
Suddently i remember a bodice from Bavaria, from the book: Textile Schätze
aus Renaissance und Barock from Bayerisches Nationalmuseum. Its a very
early childs bodice from the Cavalier Style Period. Only the sleave slashes
has whalebone stiffening. No boning in the body.
But you are right
Hmm so you think they had a corset with tabs to which the bumroll was
attached and over it the dress? So the dress itself should be of two
parts - the skirt and the bodice. One thing that remains a mystery to me
is this perfect fit of the bodices - I'd say they were at least stiffened
Hi,
I think some of you might have misunderstanded my explanations to this.
I was not reffering to the movie picture costumes, but the cavallier style
fashion for women. With the high waists.
The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the
dress waistline is so high
I've got a couple things that work for me. First, everything is in one
room. I also have a smock that I wear to work in. I first started using
the smock just because it kept me from getting thread and lint all over my
clothes and it had a lot of pockets, but it has come to mean work to me.
No, I haven't found it a problem either: after all, the high waist of the
Cavalier style isn't as extreme as that of the Empire line. I'm long-waisted,
but I make my bodices come down to my lower ribs and wear my bumroll round my
waist. It sits on my hipbones and supports the waist of my
No, I haven't found it a problem either: after all, the high waist of the
Cavalier style isn't as extreme as that of the Empire line. I'm
long-waisted, but I make my bodices come down to my lower ribs and wear my
bumroll round my waist. It sits on my hipbones and supports the waist of
my
God! I wish I lived closer to you all! It would be so cool to be able to
discuss this time period over a cuppa, 'round a campfire. I am the only one
in this area who does this time period and often miss my hardcore re
enacting days.
Great conversation.
Kelly in NS
Bravery is something
God! I wish I lived closer to you all! It would be so cool to be able to
discuss this time period over a cuppa, 'round a campfire. I am the only one
in this area who does this time period and often miss my hardcore re
enacting days.
Great conversation.
Kelly in NS
Hi Kelly,
Yeah i really
Bjarne, would you like some photos of women dressing for the Renaissance
Faire? We try to be as authentic as possible, so we wear chemise, corset,
hoops, bumroll (which just sits on the hips, no need to lace it in,
underskirt, overskirt, and bodice top. Some of our folks who are very good
I have a fashion print showing historical outfits for a fancy dress
(costume) ball in the 1880s. It's hilarious from a costumer's
viewpoint. Imagine Mary Queen of Scots with an 1880s shape. :-D Very funny.
I love that stuff. I have several of these cross-period historical prints,
plus a
Hi,
Some time ago the swedish television showed directors cut of Amadeus. I
taped it. In this there i a scene where Constance pays a visit to Sallieri,
and he tells her to come back in the evening. I dont think this scene is in
the original version. Constance is desperate to have Sallieri help
If some of my memory serves me right, doesn't fashion history suggest that
children were more or less dressed as minies of their elders , especially
during this time period? My children's clothing history does not present
separate patterns or expectations until the very end of the 18th C.
Since
I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that would
amuse women at Tea.
Kathleen
- Original Message -
From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: Victorian ideas of
At 14:06 16/02/2006, you wrote:
I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that would
amuse women at Tea.
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
I'd like to see That one...(And who said that Victorians were lacking
in a sense of humor... when it came to Dress?
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Lloyd Mitchell wrote:
[about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:]
I mut look this one up! It might have all those dicey tid-bits that
would amuse women at Tea.
I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book
(went into five or six editions) so
Can they do a re-issue on CD's? much cheaper to make multiple copies I would
imagine; once the scanning and all is done. (OED went that route for at
least one edition.)
Having ILL'd this volume, yes it is huge, and yes it is glorious, but the
pages were almost cardstock weight, and more of us have
At 15:15 16/02/2006, you wrote:
I wrote:
[about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:]
I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book
(went into five or six editions) so it should be in a sizable number of
collections.
Following Suzi's comment, I just found a
I often use my 19th C etiquette books, especially Putnam's as an
introduction to conversation. Many of them also deal with Correct Fashion,
so Fancy Dress will be another topic.
Kathleen
- Original Message -
From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL
In a message dated 2/16/2006 8:31:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I never liked Amadeus costume wise
*
Ahhthe movie I love to hate! It is TACKY! That's the only word for
it. The designer has no taste. [his other opus, Valmont is tacky and
Whoever commented that Fiskars sent her replacement springs - thank
you so much.
They sent me two new springs, one of which my DH fitted, and I am go
for cutting again. They really need a professional sharpen, (I tried
to cut a pin, and for once I can't sharpen them well enough) but they
Not period maybe, but with deep purple-blue as accent color I'd go silver for
the white-ish color. And I agree with Dawn about touches of an intermediate
blue or blues, or, to my taste, violet.
Just two cents' worth...
Ruth Anne Baumgartner
scholar gypsy and amateur costumer
-Original
In a message dated 2/16/2006 11:09:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Not period maybe, but with deep purple-blue as accent color I'd go silver
for the white-ish color.
Actually, it seems to me that I have read descriptions of silver 18th
century wedding dresses,
In a message dated 2/16/2006 11:04:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Not period maybe, but with deep purple-blue as accent color I'd go silver
for the white-ish color.
***
Indeed. An oyster color. Y'know, a dove grey might look good.
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Suzi Clarke wrote:
I have a copy if you have problems finding one. Not all the
illustrations are there, but as I picked it up cheap on E-bay, I was
quite happy.
OH, I am jealous!
--Robin
___
h-costume mailing list
At 23:52 10/02/2006, you wrote:
Have you seen the Three Musketeers and the Four Musketeers with Michael
York, Richard Chamberlain, and Oliver Reed? Talk about costumes!!! They are
amazing, and they have recently become available on DVD. Although again,
Raquel Welch's costumes were designed
Just did a quick search with the usual book vendors and my jaw is still
flapping! How about $500.00!!
Kathleen
- Original Message -
From: Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Victorian ideas
katherine sanders wrote:
I got to wondering if other people have special
rituals or procedures they do to separate their time,
particularly those who work at home.
I'm pretty casual about my hours, that's one of the reasons I work
from home after all, but I do have a sort of routine. Get up,
Quoting Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I don't have the accession number for the shirt, sorry, but you might be
able to find pictures of it online (people's websites and blogs, if nothing
else). Or maybe the VA website?
I'll have to look and see
I'll have to root through my blackwork
I wrote:
[about Fancy Dresses Described, by Ardern Holt:]
I've found it only in rare book rooms, but it was a very popular book
(went into five or six editions) so it should be in a sizable number of
collections.
Following Suzi's comment, I just found a bunch of them on bookfinder; the
I'm really interested in wanting a blackwork pattern of columbines, also.
Actually, I was recently gifted a blackwork book of patterns and there is this
one pattern that looks like a columbine but has no spurs - they called it a
pansy, but definitely does not look like any pansy I've ever
'Twas I, Suzi. This is the first company in a long time that treats me
(and you) like a valued customer!
Kathleen
- Original Message -
From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:15 AM
Subject: [h-cost] Fiskars
This isn't a pattern, but this is a picture of a shirt discussed in someone
elses post, (I don't remember if anyone already posted the picture, sorry if
this is redundant) :-)
http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg
You can clearly see the columbine pattern on the collar,
Hi,
Yes this is true, silver and white brocade. Both in Sweden and Denmark.
Bjarne
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] colors (was colonial)
In a message dated 2/16/2006 11:09:04 A.M.
I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my household wants to
take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man would have worn. I
tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search correctly
because I could not find anything.
Would the German people at
You have said it! I use their edition of Braun and Schneider for lots of
picture references so I can leave the 19th C edition on the shelf. Now to
plot my course re Fancy Dress coming from foreign climes...if I should get
it. Will look further for an affordable copy in the US. Got a book on
I forgot about this shirt with the columbines. The blackwork pattern that I
am thinking of is from one of the German model books and is similar to the
pattern on the shirt collar.
De
-Original Message-
This isn't a pattern, but this is a picture of a shirt discussed in someone
elses post,
I doubt if half the subject showed up, but I wanted to be sure just which civil
war (stupid name for a very uncivil action) and which side of the conflict I
was researching. I have a multitude of pictures of Confederate uniforms, but
would really love to have a decent pattern to start with. I
That is great news! I still need to buy the second pair you asked for. I
have a coupon good for Saturday. Do you still want them?
Anne
They sent me two new springs, one of which my DH fitted, and I am go
for cutting again. They really need a professional sharpen, (I tried
to cut a pin, and
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
This isn't a pattern, but this is a picture of a shirt discussed in
someone elses post, (I don't remember if anyone already posted the
picture, sorry if this is redundant) :-)
http://www.kipar.demon.co.uk/elizabethan/boyshirt1540s.jpg
You can clearly see the
Lalah wrote:
I doubt if half the subject showed up, but I wanted to be sure just which civil war (stupid name for a very uncivil action)
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin civilis, from
civis
1 a : of or relating to citizens b : of or relating to the state or its
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I forgot about this shirt with the columbines. The blackwork pattern that I
am thinking of is from one of the German model books and is similar to the
pattern on the shirt collar.
On the Arizona site for Digital Archives for weaving, there's this
Check outhttp://www.smoke-fire.com/pattern-shop.htm
Susan
Slow down. The trail is the thing, not the end of the trail. Travel
too fast and you miss all you are traveling for. - Ride the Dark
Trail by Louis L'Amour
On Feb 16, 2006, at 3:57 PM, Lalah wrote:
I doubt if half the subject
At least for the officer's pattern, any period frock coat pattern will get
you started. I think that my latest was from Past Patterns. The carry
other Cw patterns (I think)
- Original Message -
From: Lalah [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday,
I would think that would go without saying, as in any age. Especially when
fashionable clothing was so involved both to dressing and wearing. I
suppose that one reason we have Visual examples at all is that the child
would be prepared for the sitting(s) much as children of the 19th/20th C
were
Forgive the timelag, I've been neglecting my email for a few days.
Personally, if I was making a costume for a young child, I'd go with a separate
shift and gown. The shift would be made ( wide seam allowances, tucks in the
shift 'skirt' and sleeves are the two things which spring immediately
At 09:02 PM 2/15/2006, you wrote:
I generally wear my 14th/15th century garb (both kirtle and gown layers) at
past-my-feet level as you describe, and once you've practiced in it a bit,
it's not as bad as you would think. If I'm walking a long distance or
outdoors, I pick my skirts up, and going
At 03:10 PM 2/15/2006, you wrote:
That is quite a bit longer than I had imagined when I first read your
email. Hope you weren't offended by my first response. I'm thinking that
a gown that long would have to be held up when walking...perhaps the
fashion that's depicted in Jan van Eyck's
At 10:05 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote:
I recently had the experience to spend the day outside in a misting rainy
enviroment in skirts that touched the ground, if not lay upon the ground a
bit. Even though the bottom ten inches or so were wet, my ankles and legs
were not so cold as they were a
At 09:39 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote:
What I learned was that as castles were very cold and during religious
services, everyone stood (no benches, ladies would actually stand on their
long skirts for comfort and warmth.
Sharon
Thank you Sharon. That was an aspect I hadn't thought of, considering
try chas r childs's patterns at county cloth. he does the best acw uniform
patterns I know of, (has asst paterns - richmond, columbus etc).
he also does some of the best jeans and notions.
http://www.crchilds.com/id15.htm
Debbie
___
h-costume
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I'm really interested in wanting a blackwork pattern of columbines,
also. Actually, I was recently gifted a blackwork book of patterns
and there is this one pattern that looks like a columbine but has no
spurs - they called it a pansy, but definitely does not
Quoting Sue Clemenger [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Well, speaking as Sue the flower junkie, and not Susan the flower junkie
g, no, not really. I've done collar and cuffs in an interlacing linear
pattern of columbines (from a mid-16th century boy's shirt in the VA), and
A photo of the shirt has been
The Romanesque period costume is particularly hard to document. In central
Europe this is the time of the Ottonians (successors to
Charlemagne). There are many textile fragments and a few existing garments
from this period. Check Bender-Jorgenson for the textiles, Marc Calson's
pages for
Of the Smoke and Fire patterns, I would choose stock #RHF-701 for the shirt
and #PI-775 for the trousers. While at the Halifax Citadel, who recreates
the mid 19thC, we made clothes similar to these patterns. I did make
confederate jackets for a couple of the guys to go to Gettysburg the big
I have this book and been working on getting it on my website for the past
two years. Even though some of the costumes are not period correct, they
are the costumes that people during this time wore to fancy dressed balls,
plays, etc. We have about half of the book's descriptions typed. I
I think that joingin the parts will definitely be done for my duaghter's
costume. I think that she will learn to walk like a lady instead of dropping
on the ground like she does. If she has a hoop skirt, she will definitely
learn not NOT to sit.
I found a pattern that is very similar to what
--- Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've toyed with trying to transform one of the
english columbines
Elizabethan patterns into the American columbine.
Ours is not as fat and the spurs are *much*
longer.
http://epee.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Wildflower/Images/columbine.jpg
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Suzi Clarke wrote:
Whooo, that's got more pictures than mine. Good luck bidding, if you
decide. I might bid if the price stays like that and nobody else is
interested, then sell on my less complete copy. However, I don't want
to enter a war with anybody on list, so
There are boned bodices in the Museum of London, but manly from the
1650's. I recently looked at bodices and a beautiful pair of stays from
Melusine I should have been more specific; I don't know of any boned bodices or
corset in existance before after 1603 but before 1640. I believe the
Quoting Ann Catelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
--- Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've toyed with trying to transform one of the
english columbines
Elizabethan patterns into the American columbine.
Ours is not as fat and the spurs are *much*
longer.
Cynthia,
The book's images will differ from the year's editions, but only with a few
of the images. I can't recall off-hand but certain images are the same in
every book. I did a lot of research on this book before purchasing it.
Penny E. Ladnier
Owner,
The Costume Gallery,
I could scan it for you and send it to you privately, if you would like. It's
nice when I can help someone from here instead of me asking for help all of the
time. LOL
Roscelin
-- Original message --
From: Susan B. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'd like to see
How odd that men's doublets are boned, yet the women's arent. Ref:
Naomi Tarrant's Devel of Costume, p.109-110 photos showing the thick
cardboard used to create the straight area between the chest and
waist. The front edge is further stiffened by a whalebone. The
doublet is 1630s, Natl Museum of
I think some of you might have misunderstanded my explanations to this.
I was not reffering to the movie picture costumes, but the cavallier style
fashion for women. With the high waists.
The reason why i want the bumroll to be laced to a bodice is that the dress
waistline is so high over the
On Thursday 16 February 2006 9:40 am, Betsy Marshall wrote:
Can they do a re-issue on CD's? much cheaper to make multiple copies I
would imagine; once the scanning and all is done. (OED went that route for
at least one edition.)
Having ILL'd this volume, yes it is huge, and yes it is glorious,
In either the 3 Musketeers or The 4 Musketeers, (I forget which one)the
ones with Fay Dunaway and Michael York, there is a scene where Faye is
undressing. I don't know if the undergarments are authentic or not, but it's
a start.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL
Awesome! Thanks, Sheridan! That's the shirt I took my pattern from! ;o)
--Sue
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Smock or Partlet was Tudor roses
This isn't a pattern, but
Sorry about the double posting. I only sent it once - honest.
Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender
--- Lalah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Lalah [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:57:16 -0800 (PST)
To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [h-cost] American Civil War
In a message dated 2/16/06 11:56:53 PM GMT Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The problem with CW uniforms, in the south especially, is that
a lot of men went to war with whatever clothing their wife sent them
with.
Sorry, but that's untrue, although it's an incredibly commonly
Thanks to all of you who wrote. I have been making costumes in the medieval
and Regency periods for several years, but haven't done any Civil War stuff
before this. It should be interesting.
Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender
--- kelly grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: kelly grant
On Thursday 16 February 2006 3:14 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my household
wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man would have
worn. I tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search
correctly
At 04:02 PM 2/16/2006, you wrote:
Kimiko, have you tried wearing a wool petticoat under your farthingale? I
find it helps when I'm out in the cold. But then I'm also the type that
wears wool socks all year around, and sleep in flannel sheets all year
too...I find they regulate my temp better
I hated the movies as well, and felt as if I was alone in that. I hated the
costumes and the wigs, and I hated the made up story. Even more so in the
fact that so many people dont get that movies about real people do nothave
to be true! People do take them as gospel.
Ron Carnegie
-
In a message dated 2/16/2006 9:51:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In either the 3 Musketeers or The 4 Musketeers, (I forget which one)the
ones with Fay Dunaway and Michael York, there is a scene where Faye is
undressing. I don't know if the undergarments are
In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:33:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Even more so in the
fact that so many people dont get that movies about real people do nothave
to be true! People do take them as gospel.
Speaking of3 Musketeers is about real people
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In either the 3 Musketeers or The 4 Musketeers, (I forget which
one)the
ones with Fay Dunaway and Michael York, there is a scene where Faye is
undressing. I don't know if the undergarments are authentic or not, but
it's
a start.
(sorry, didn't get the name of
Speaking of3 Musketeers is about real people toothe King of France
and the Duke of Buckingham were real people but no one believes Dumas'
story is true. Perhaps because the main characters are not real.
(snip)
Actually, d'Artagnan was a real person, and was a member, eventually
Hey Robin!
From the SCA garb list ...
Can I forward this to the H-Costume list where
Robin Netherton hangs out? She's way interested
in tippets.
Jerusha
Sure. Please tell her it was pointed out by John Dillion on the Medieval
Religion List. I'm sure she'll recognise his name.
Hrothny
A
On Feb 16, 2006, at 12:14 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my
household wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C.
German man would have worn. I
tried to look through the net - but must not of worded my search
correctly
On Feb 16, 2006, at 7:32 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
On Thursday 16 February 2006 3:14 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I hope someone can assist me. One of the members of my
household
wants to take a look at what a 10th to the 11th C. German man
would have
worn. I tried to
The top one is the on I was thinking about but it was not paired with
another columbine pattern like this. The bottom pattern is on the shirt
collar, I think.
Thank you,
De
-Original Message-
Quoting otsisto [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I forgot about this shirt with the columbines. The blackwork
On Friday 17 February 2006 12:11 am, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
[snip]
There isn't so much a problem with the neckline as that it's a
rather unusually shaped neckline. The particular angle of the
photograph is also not very good for seeing what's going on with the
neck. Asymmetric
Hello,
We have two copies of this book, different editions:
Fifth edition, 1887, and sixth edition, no date visible. Both seem
to have all the plates. The sixth edition has six pages in the back
of advertisement from Debenham Freebody, who would make up any of
the dresses in the book for
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Susan Farmer wrote:
Hey Robin!
Thanks for thinking of me!
A fresco on the wall of the hexagonal baptistery of San Giovanni
Battista (said to be originally ninth-cent., with fifteenth- and
sixteenth-century frescoes) showing the marriage of St. Catherine of
Sienna.
On Feb 16, 2006, at 9:29 PM, Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote:
On Friday 17 February 2006 12:11 am, Heather Rose Jones wrote:
[snip]
There isn't so much a problem with the neckline as that it's a
rather unusually shaped neckline. The particular angle of the
photograph is also not very good
Perhaps a very faint hint of color of purple/ blue (periwinkle?) for the
dress material with eggshell white bows and underskirt.
If you have the split, were you thinking of a quilted underskirt or
leaving
it plan?
For a split skirt, I would decorate the underskirt or make it a different
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