On Wed, 2006-09-27 at 14:20 -0400, Alan Altmark wrote:
On Wednesday, 09/27/2006 at 12:48 AST, Morris, Kevin J. (LNG-DAY)
Is there a way to let zVM know that this is a password field similar to
when you are logging on to zVM or using the VM-FTP Client?
Yes, the function is there in the
Given the available options I would vote for allowing no-password logons
to Linux via the console. Because:
- Recording passwords is bad policy. Anyone who sees a console or
console listing can then use the discovered passwords elsewhere.
- Depending on keyboard mapping and special
- Access to the console can (should!) be restricted by regular VM
security or ESM, the only possible problem being that some sites
require
8 character upper-lower case passwords for their UNIX-type systems.
It'd be interesting to know how many of these sites apply similar
requirements to
On 9/28/06, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It'd be interesting to know how many of these sites apply similar
requirements to terminal servers attached to serial consoles. One could
make a fairly strong argument that that's exactly the role that VM plays
in this scenario.
It takes a
On Thursday, 09/28/2006 at 11:09 ZE2, Martin Schwidefsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I tried to use opcode 0x0e to do password suppression in the 3215 driver
but found out the hard way that it doesn't work. To suppress the output
on a 3215 device you need to have a pending 0x0e read. The read will
On Thursday, 09/28/2006 at 09:27 AST, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Depending on keyboard mapping and special characters used (# ^ [ ]),
logon to Linux becomes difficult or impossible via the 3215.
In new deployments, I would recommend (courtesy of discussion on
IBM-MAIN):
On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 10:44 -0400, Alan Altmark wrote:
On Thursday, 09/28/2006 at 09:27 AST, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For all EBCDIC stuff, Linux assumes you are code page 37 (Grr!),
including ^ and square brackets. IMO Linux should extract the code page
information from the virtual console and
David Boyes wrote:
I'm not sure there's anything they *can* do. The guest doesn't see the
input until the attention key gets pressed, so that it really doesn't
get control in any useful way.
You might be able to do something with a 3270 console, but that's
probably unlikely to be useful in a
You know, linux can use serial ports as a console device... So why
hasn't IBM come up with a virtual serial port type of console system
to
use instead? Something like having the console on /dev/ttyS0, and
that
via some z/VM magic, is available on an IP as a port number. Telnet
to
the port,
David Boyes wrote:
You know, linux can use serial ports as a console device... So why
hasn't IBM come up with a virtual serial port type of console system
to
use instead? Something like having the console on /dev/ttyS0, and
that
via some z/VM magic, is available on an IP as a port
On 9/28/06, Brandon Darbro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, the entire point is to not have to tolerate 3270 at all, to also not
have a line mode in telnet. The entire point is to have a virtual
console device that is *completely* usable. Have it good for vi, screen
(terminal multiplexer),
On Sep 28, 2006, at 9:42 AM, Brandon Darbro wrote:
The main
thing is to get one linux appliance to be attached somehow via virtual
serial connections to all the other Linux guests, and have those
guests
configured to use serial console.
I seem to recall that quite a long time ago--maybe 5
On Thursday, 09/28/2006 at 08:17 MST, Brandon Darbro
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You know, linux can use serial ports as a console device... So why
hasn't IBM come up with a virtual serial port type of console system to
use instead? Something like having the console on /dev/ttyS0, and that
via
Does this list deal at all with SUSE on S390? I'm trying to install SUSE
S390 over the Hercules S390 emulator and am having a problem.
Paul
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Rob van der Heij wrote:
On 9/28/06, Brandon Darbro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, the entire point is to not have to tolerate 3270 at all, to also not
have a line mode in telnet. The entire point is to have a virtual
console device that is *completely* usable. Have it good for vi, screen
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Dembry
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:28 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Suse S390 help?
Does this list deal at all with SUSE on S390? I'm trying to
install SUSE
S390 over
Adam Thornton wrote:
On Sep 28, 2006, at 9:42 AM, Brandon Darbro wrote:
The main
thing is to get one linux appliance to be attached somehow via virtual
serial connections to all the other Linux guests, and have those
guests
configured to use serial console.
I seem to recall that quite a long
I seem to recall that quite a long time ago--maybe 5 years now--there
was discussion of doing clustering/HA stuff with Linux guests that
used vCTCs as serial devices. Maybe this could do what you want:
Define one octopus guest, the console server, with dozens of CTC
pairs, each coupled to
Maybe. Can't hurt to ask so, ask away. I have successfully installed
SLES-10-RC3 on Hercules/390 running on an AMD Athlon64 running SLES 10.1
at home. As my college Russian teacher used to say: Easy! Easy! (she
was a native Russian trying to teach Texans, poor lady!)
Thanks. I get all the way
David Boyes wrote:
I seem to recall that quite a long time ago--maybe 5 years now--there
was discussion of doing clustering/HA stuff with Linux guests that
used vCTCs as serial devices. Maybe this could do what you want:
Define one octopus guest, the console server, with dozens of CTC
pairs,
What version of SUSE is this, by the way? That might be helpful.
Mark Post
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Paul Dembry
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:46 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Suse S390 help?
Maybe. Can't
I seem to recall that quite a long time ago--maybe 5 years now--there
was discussion of doing clustering/HA stuff with Linux guests that
used vCTCs as serial devices. Maybe this could do what you want:
Define one octopus guest, the console server, with dozens of CTC
pairs, each coupled to
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Dembry
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:46 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Suse S390 help?
Maybe. Can't hurt to ask so, ask away. I have successfully installed
SLES-10-RC3
No, the entire point is to not have to tolerate 3270 at all, to also
not
have a line mode in telnet. The entire point is to have a virtual
console device that is *completely* usable. Have it good for vi,
screen
(terminal multiplexer), control codes, TUI's, heck, even zmodem
uploads
if we
On Sep 28, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Mark Wheeler wrote:
I seem to recall that quite a long time ago--maybe 5 years now--there
was discussion of doing clustering/HA stuff with Linux guests that
used vCTCs as serial devices. Maybe this could do what you want:
Define one octopus guest, the console
On 9/28/06, Brandon Darbro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Some shops, like mine, have what I call strategic division of labor.
I can't grab another VM's disks. z/VM is handled by the mainframe
group, and Linux is handled by my Unix group. And while I might get
granted such access, that makes me the
David Boyes wrote:
Do you consider the line mode approach that most Unix servers have in
their boot PROMs broken as well? That's the comparison you want, I
think.
I don't know of any Unix implementation that does fullscreen stuff in
the boot PROMs.
No, line mode makes sense at the boot prom
But doesn't that limit it to line mode again? If so, what the heck
would be the point?
I guess I start with the assumption that the console of a Unix machine
is something that does not ever get regular use -- it's a emergency
device at best. I find that it's safer to start with that assumption
David Boyes wrote:
But doesn't that limit it to line mode again? If so, what the heck
would be the point?
I guess I start with the assumption that the console of a Unix machine
is something that does not ever get regular use -- it's a emergency
device at best. I find that it's safer to start
On Thu, Sep 28, 2006 at 12:59:09PM -0500, McKown, John wrote:
The only question that comes to my mind is whether you told the
installed to do a dasdfmt of the volume in question?The Hercules
dasdinit is not sufficient (even though required) because it does not
format the tracks into 4K
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jay Maynard
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:37 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Suse S390 help?
snip
I don't know of anyone who recommends ReiserFS for general
production use
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brandon Darbro
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:31 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: zLinux User Passwords on console
snip
They won't work on the boxes for fear if they screw it up,
I recently installed Xandros Desktop 4 on my home PC, and it uses
ReiserFS. (Okay, so maybe you can't call that 'Production' use.)
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Jay Maynard
Sent: September 28, 2006 14:37
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
The only question that comes to my mind is whether you told the
installed to do a dasdfmt of the volume in question? The Hercules
dasdinit is not sufficient (even though required) because it does not
format the tracks into 4K records that z/Linux requires. Why msdos
indeed? What filesystem
I have implemented production workloads with an early version of
ReiserFs, we did some analysis that showed ext3 and Reiser have
different performance sweet spots, one works better for a large number
of small files, the other works better for a small number of large files.
The decision to go
No, line mode makes sense at the boot prom level... but when a Solaris
box or HP box is booted into the OS, the console device becomes a
fully
interactive terminal. Very handy for when the box's network settings
are wrong so you can't ssh into it.
Exactly. You have enough control to
Here's my point... The biggest barrier to my sharing support
responsibility for z/Linux is the console.
Let me pose this question: how many of your colleagues know what to do
after hitting L1-A on a Sun console, or accidentally disconnecting a
serial cable to a console port? If they do know,
David Boyes wrote:
We're just starting from different assumptions, I guess. I have no
problems working on a TTY linemode console, because that's what I assume
the lowest common denominator is, and I rarely use or need the setup
tools. It's a PITA, but then it's only a problem long enough to get
David Boyes wrote:
Here's my point... The biggest barrier to my sharing support
responsibility for z/Linux is the console.
Let me pose this question: how many of your colleagues know what to do
after hitting L1-A on a Sun console, or accidentally disconnecting a
serial cable to a console
Hi Brandon.
I have some comments on your last post. I hope this could help in any way.
[...]
My average Unix SA's around me expect to be able to use vi,
and most of them have no clue what to do without it.
sed is a powerful tool for rescuing in a TN3270.
As for manually
doing the
I'm glad this works for you. I can do that to, if I want to continue
being the handful that can support the box. I honestly recognize your
points and see the validity in them, but anything short of what I'm
asking for will continue to leave us 5 SA's as the only SA's for this
platform. My
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Boyes
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:35 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: zLinux User Passwords on console
snip
I don't see this as whining, but I do think we're trying to
What version of SUSE is this, by the way? That might be helpful.
SUSE 10.0 RC4
Paul
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006
On 9/28/06, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) Write them a quick cookbook man page detailing the steps to get a
guest back on the net -- call it zlinux-console -- and put it on one of
the Solaris or HP boxes. They can log in to their favorite environment
and type 'man zlinux-console', and
Unfortunately, not many. I'd say 10 out of 50 would know.
I'd consider that pretty good, actually. You're ahead of the crowd
there.
The rest
depend on a remote terminal server product we use. They telnet to
host
and port, authenticate, and there's the console... or in a couple of
cases, a
You know, it was just an idea on how to make life simpler for our shop.
I said what I was looking for, I gave the requirements... why do you
folks need to question why I need it or want it? If you can, and feel
like, helping and pointing me in the right direction toward developing a
solution,
On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 13:36 -0500, Jay Maynard wrote:
I don't know of anyone who recommends ReiserFS for general production use on
any platform.
There are people on this forum whom I respect a great deal, and who
recommend against reiserfs on s390. Nevertheless I run reiserfs on
three
The only question that comes to my mind is whether you told the
installed to do a dasdfmt of the volume in question? The Hercules
dasdinit is not sufficient (even though required) because it does not
format the tracks into 4K records that z/Linux requires. Why msdos
indeed? What filesystem
Seasoned UNIX guys are maniacs at the keyboard. They want vi,
autocomplete, and basically everything else that's available on a native
Linux console. We shouldn't surmise what they want console access for -
it may be to fix a network problem, maybe not. If VM is to support Linux
in a transparent
Marcy Cortes wrote:
Sounds like Brandon's sysadmin role must be a little different from
ours. Either that or he's got 500+ servers? Heck, I'd be happy to have
5 linux sysadmin in my group!We have various other support teams
support teams - db2, mq, websphere, etc. So the ones who can
Brandon Darbro wrote:
Current experience: Oh, the networking info on that vm is wrong. Log
into it's 3270 console... oh yeah, remember, don't type vi! Let's use
ed or ex... okay, configuration fixed... let's see if I can ping out
now. OH NO! I forgot to tell it only 1 ping! No control-c!
Rob van der Heij wrote:
On 9/28/06, David Boyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
1) Write them a quick cookbook man page detailing the steps to get a
guest back on the net -- call it zlinux-console -- and put it on one of
the Solaris or HP boxes. They can log in to their favorite environment
and type
On Sep 28, 2006, at 1:59 PM, David Andrews wrote:
Based on that experience I like reiserfs on x86, if you have lots and
lots of little files. I'll defer to the experts in the case of s390
with, perhaps, fewer small files and more large ones.
I haven't been back to it in a long time.
I was
Ulrich Weigand wrote:
Brandon Darbro wrote:
Current experience: Oh, the networking info on that vm is wrong. Log
into it's 3270 console... oh yeah, remember, don't type vi! Let's use
ed or ex... okay, configuration fixed... let's see if I can ping out
now. OH NO! I forgot to tell it only
On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Seasoned UNIX guys are maniacs at the keyboard. They want vi,
autocomplete, and basically everything else that's available on a
native
Linux console.
REALLY seasoned Unix guys are not late-90s Linux weenies, and know
how to survive just
On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Brandon Darbro wrote:
Things my fellow admins face when trying to support z/Linux:
* Different backup solution than the rest of distrubted Unix/Linux.
Why? Bacula and Amanda run spiffily under it.
* Different system health monitoring system.
Why? Nagios runs
I know that I succeeded with SLES-10-RC3 installation and I did, indeed,
tell it to do a dasdfmt on the installation. And then I went to bed
for the night. My Athlon64 3800+ gets about 25 emulated MIPS under
Hercules.
Do you recall if you had to lay out the partitions yourself? The installer
Adam Thornton wrote:
On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:10 PM, Brandon Darbro wrote:
Things my fellow admins face when trying to support z/Linux:
* Different backup solution than the rest of distrubted Unix/Linux.
Why? Bacula and Amanda run spiffily under it.
* Different system health monitoring
Hobbit runs very well also (the new 4.2 release cuts CPU Utilization by
80%!) And there is a Hobbit client for z/VM. There is a client for
z/OS as well, but since I don't have access to a z/OS system I don't
know how well it works.
Adam Thornton wrote:
Why? Nagios runs spiffily on it.
Now,
I know that I succeeded with SLES-10-RC3 installation and I did, indeed,
tell it to do a dasdfmt on the installation. And then I went to bed
for the night. My Athlon64 3800+ gets about 25 emulated MIPS under
Hercules.
Hmm when I choose dasdfmt in the partition screen, I get the hourglass for a
Yes. Jay said that the -linux option for dasdinit should do the same
thing for you, but I think it's worth trying. If that works, when
-linux didn't then you can file a bug report with Jay. :) If not, then
we're definitely into unknown territory here.
Mark Post
-Original Message-
then that's a problem with your vendor and its responsiveness to your
needs, not Linux on zSeries.
And they are much more responsive if you start the beating close to when
contract renewals are going on. Just be sure and ask for future version
of your o/s too so that you don't have to keep doing
Len is a great place to start. But I have a better idea: the ISVCOSTS
list server!
It is primarily a z/OS product-centric list server, but I do not believe
it is restricted to that. See below:
Instructions and
On Thursday, 09/28/2006 at 02:18 MST, Brandon Darbro
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've tried that with x3270 as my client terminal program... it's never
worked. Any idea as to why?
Make sure the client is emulating host code page 37.
Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott
Brandon Darbro wrote:
David Boyes wrote:
I'm not sure there's anything they *can* do. The guest doesn't see the
input until the attention key gets pressed, so that it really doesn't
get control in any useful way.
You might be able to do something with a 3270 console, but that's
probably
Alan Altmark wrote:
On Thursday, 09/28/2006 at 08:17 MST, Brandon Darbro
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You know, linux can use serial ports as a console device... So why
hasn't IBM come up with a virtual serial port type of console system to
use instead? Something like having the console on
David Boyes wrote:
I seem to recall that quite a long time ago--maybe 5 years now--there
was discussion of doing clustering/HA stuff with Linux guests that
used vCTCs as serial devices. Maybe this could do what you want:
Define one octopus guest, the console server, with dozens of CTC
pairs,
David Andrews wrote:
On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 13:36 -0500, Jay Maynard wrote:
I don't know of anyone who recommends ReiserFS for general production use on
any platform.
There are people on this forum whom I respect a great deal, and who
recommend against reiserfs on s390. Nevertheless I run
On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:18 PM, Brandon Darbro wrote:
I've tried that with x3270 as my client terminal program... it's never
worked. Any idea as to why?
Code page/keymap issue. x3270 is probably sending a logical not
symbol rather than a caret.
I'm sure someone who remembers how to fix this
-Original Message-
From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Dembry
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 4:32 PM
To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: Suse S390 help?
I know that I succeeded with SLES-10-RC3 installation and I did,
indeed, tell it
I only use 3390-3 emulated DASD on Hercules. Who knows, some day I might
actually be able to get a z/Linux system on my work zSeries machine. It
would be nice to just backup my Hercules disk images in some manner
which would allow them to be restored on real zSeries DASD and IPL'ed.
Again, I'm
I only use 3390-3 emulated DASD on Hercules. Who knows, some day I might
actually be able to get a z/Linux system on my work zSeries machine. It
would be nice to just backup my Hercules disk images in some manner
which would allow them to be restored on real zSeries DASD and IPL'ed.
Well using
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