Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-25 Thread Lior Kesos
Gilboa Davara wrote: But the percentage is getting lower and lower. My guess it that in general close to 80% of the programmers getting out to the workforce today, will 'do' java/C#/VB most of their professional life... and with design (YUCK!) tools getting better and better, most developers are

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-25 Thread Ilya Konstantinov
On Tuesday 24 June 2003 15:45, Eli Billauer wrote: You have a point there. This could be solved with Internet Explorer under wine, though, as Shachar demonstrated partially at Haifux yesterday. Yes, I would be happier too if it was all Mozilla, but if the Explorer was available for Linux (ran

What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Eli Billauer
Since the Linux for masses issue is up again, here's my little food for thought: What's wrong with the situation as it is? What's wrong with Linux not being in every home? Why do we care if our grandmother pays for her operating system? There are, of course, a few things that I would like to

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Tzafrir Cohen
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 01:40:49PM +0200, Eli Billauer wrote: Keep in mind: If Linux, or to be more precise, the main distros of Linux, will be aimed for everyone, they will also be adapted to that level. Which means that we'll all find a paperclip helper in Openoffice very soon. amor ?

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Gilboa Davara
Here's a couple. A. Development tools and workplaces: Low adaptation gives MS power to dictate *bad* (non)standards. MS-Word is not the real problem here; MFC, DirectX, Visual Basic, C#, etc are! As developers we are forced to use non standard closed tools and libraries that can be changed

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Eli Billauer
Gilboa Davara wrote: Here's a couple. A. Development tools and workplaces: Low adaptation gives MS power to dictate *bad* (non)standards. MS-Word is not the real problem here; MFC, DirectX, Visual Basic, C#, etc are! As developers we are forced to use non standard closed tools and libraries that

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Beni Cherniavsky
Gilboa Davara wrote on 2003-06-24: On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 14:40, Eli Billauer wrote: Since the Linux for masses issue is up again, here's my little food for thought: What's wrong with the situation as it is? What's wrong with Linux not being in every home? Why do we care if our

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Beni Cherniavsky
Eli Billauer wrote on 2003-06-24: Gilboa Davara wrote: B. Non standard shared Web-sites: At least half of the sites in Israel don't work right under Mozilla. (ynet, walla, etc) Why? cause they are using non-standard IE-only extensions. Christ, even the Linux forum in ynet cannot be read

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 15:45, Eli Billauer wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote: Here's a couple. A. Development tools and workplaces: Low adaptation gives MS power to dictate *bad* (non)standards. MS-Word is not the real problem here; MFC, DirectX, Visual Basic, C#, etc are! As developers we are

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Alon Altman
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Eli Billauer wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote: B. Non standard shared Web-sites: At least half of the sites in Israel don't work right under Mozilla. (ynet, walla, etc) Why? cause they are using non-standard IE-only extensions. Christ, even the Linux forum in ynet cannot be

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 14:43, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote on 2003-06-24: On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 14:40, Eli Billauer wrote: Since the Linux for masses issue is up again, here's my little food for thought: What's wrong with the situation as it is? What's wrong

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Gilad Ben-Yossef
Eli Billauer wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote: Here's a couple. A. Development tools and workplaces: Low adaptation gives MS power to dictate *bad* (non)standards. MS-Word is not the real problem here; MFC, DirectX, Visual Basic, C#, etc are! As developers we are forced to use non standard closed

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Herouth Maoz
Quoting Eli Billauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Keep in mind: If Linux, or to be more precise, the main distros of Linux, will be aimed for everyone, they will also be adapted to that level. Which means that we'll all find a paperclip helper in Openoffice very soon. Bt... Faulty thinking here.

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Beni Cherniavsky
Gilboa Davara wrote on 2003-06-24: On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 15:45, Eli Billauer wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote: Here's a couple. A. Development tools and workplaces: Low adaptation gives MS power to dictate *bad* (non)standards. MS-Word is not the real problem here; MFC, DirectX, Visual

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 15:55, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote on 2003-06-24: On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 15:45, Eli Billauer wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote: Here's a couple. A. Development tools and workplaces: Low adaptation gives MS power to dictate *bad* (non)standards.

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Beni Cherniavsky
Gilboa Davara wrote on 2003-06-24: On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 15:55, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: Let me doubt the Captian being a programmer :-). I stipulate that the percent of programmers exposed to unix is much higher than the percent of users exposed to them. I'd guess that more than half of

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Gilboa Davara
On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 19:43, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote on 2003-06-24: On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 15:55, Beni Cherniavsky wrote: Let me doubt the Captian being a programmer :-). I stipulate that the percent of programmers exposed to unix is much higher than the percent

Re: What do we REALLY want? (Re: Captain Internet Responds)

2003-06-24 Thread Ely Levy
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Eli Billauer wrote: Gilboa Davara wrote: B. Non standard shared Web-sites: At least half of the sites in Israel don't work right under Mozilla. (ynet, walla, etc) Why? cause they are using non-standard IE-only extensions. Christ, even the Linux forum in ynet cannot be