[LUTE] Re: This September--Paul O'Dette in concert

[John Mardinly]

Thanks Nancy-This was wonderful!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 31, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Nancy Carlin  wrote:
> 
> --0511CBC1E59526415F9EA14C
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> See the note below about an online Paul O'Dette concert.
> Nancy
> 
> 
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:This September--Paul O'Dette in concert
> Date:Mon, 31 Aug 2020 09:30:46 -0400
> From:Lydia Becker 
> To:lsaq.edi...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Nancy,
> 
> I hope this email finds you well! My name is Lydia and I am the
> administrative manager for NYS Baroque and Pegasus Early Music. I wanted
> to alert you to our upcoming season opening concert, featuring Paul
> O'Dette! I've copied and pasted more information:
> 
> September 25 at 7:30pm and September 27 at 4:00pm
> Dowland’s Grand Tour: /Paul O’Dette, lute/
> Our local world-renowned lutenist performs music of English lutenist
> John Dowland, as well as the music he encountered on his travels around
> Europe in the early 17th century.
> This event is hosted by Pegasus Early Music and NYS Baroque. Please
> check our websites (pegasusearlymusic.org
>   > or
> nysbaroque.com
>   >)
> closer to the concert date to find out how to access.
> All events will be online and free! Please note that we’ll be paying our
> artists their professional performance fees, and donations will be
> gratefully accepted.
> 
> If you could forward this to anyone who you think might be interested,
> that would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> All my best,
> 
> Lydia
> *Lydia Becker* | /Administrative Manager/
> *
> *
> *Pegasus Early Music*
> 211 Cobbs Hill Drive
> Rochester, NY 14610
> 585-703-3990 
> www.PegasusEarlyMusic.org 
>   >
> /Now in our 15th season!
> /
> *
> *
> *NYS Baroque*
> 333 The Parkway
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> 607-301-0604 
> www.nysbaroque.com 
>   >
> /Celebrating our 31st season!/
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Nancy Carlin
> Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__LuteSocietyofAmerica.org=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=fJaMzDUxV76gFV5GfnmIVyoGt4xwfkaxwSh1sDLHtEA=KleeThdHjNJruTWaPpr7cnyZuAux3Va1NyVgS39wGMQ=
>  
> 
> PO Box 6499
> Concord, CA 94524
> USA
> 925 / 686-5800
> 
> www.groundsanddivisions.info
> www.nancycarlinassociates.com
> 
> 
> --0511CBC1E59526415F9EA14C
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> 
>  
> 
>
>  
>  
>See the note below about an online Paul O'Dette concert.
>Nancy
>
>  
>   Forwarded Message 
>  cellpadding="0" border="0">
>
>  
>Subject:
>
>This September--Paul O'Dette in concert
>  
>  
>Date: 
>Mon, 31 Aug 2020 09:30:46 -0400
>  
>  
>From: 
>Lydia Becker  href="mailto:ly...@pegasusearlymusic.org;>ly...@pegasusearlymusic.org
>  
>  
>To: 
> href="mailto:lsaq.edi...@gmail.com;>lsaq.edi...@gmail.com
>  
>
>  
>  
>  
>  Hello Nancy,
>
>
>I hope this email finds you well! My name is Lydia and I am
>  the administrative manager for NYS Baroque and Pegasus Early
>   

[LUTE] Re: future of the lute

[John Mardinly]

   For me, it was Elvis Presley's "You Ain't Nuthin But a Hound Dog" when
   I was 7 years old that convinced me that I never wanted to listen to
   pop music ever again. Fortunately, growing up in Philadelphia, there
   was a great classical music FM station, and the Philadelphia Orchestra
   under Eugene Ormandy, and when my Mother gave me a guitar for
   Christmas, I was able to find a teacher who had studied with Segovia.
   Unfortunately, it is true that many young people today don't get to
   experience that combination of influences. However, from what I hear
   coming from my teenager's phone, the pop music is even worse!

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Aug 27, 2020, at 12:15 PM, Nancy Carlin <[1]lsaq.edi...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Howard is right about the graying of audiences and it's been talked
   about for years here in the US.  I think one problem is that early
   music is the poor step-sister of "classical music" - a category that
   was solidified (along with ethnic, folk etc.) back when record stores
   started. It seems to me our music was the pop music of the day, with a
   bit of a division between music for use in church, court and things
   like popular ballad tunes. Currently I see a couple larger baroque
   orchestras and concert series moving past the baroque, but I also see
   some interesting series who explore putting on concerts in
   non-traditional venues, such as bars and coffee shops. We had an
   article by Deborah Fox a year or so in the Quarterly - about some of
   the things her Pegasus music is doing to encourage a younger audience.
   Stephen Stubbs in Seattle (Pacific Music Works) in Seattle is also
   doing this.
   I suspect that all this targeted music aimed to fill medium sized
   concert venues will change because of Covid-19. It will level the
   playing field and people will have found out it's very nice to listen
   to a well-produced concert on your TV (via YouTube). Recently I have
   listened to online lute concerts by Paul O'Dette, Ronn McFarlane and
   Brandon J Acker.  In each of them there was no ticket price, just a
   suggestion to follow a link to donate on PayPal.  None of those
   concerts took place in my part of the continent and I would not have
   heard them without the pandemic. I think this will continue even after
   we get our vaccine. The success of these kind of things will depend on
   things like Facebook spreading to work far and wide as well as people
   contiruting - Brandon Acker has done a great job getting lots of
   connections on Facebook, so has access to his potential audience.
   Nancy

 On Aug 27, 2020, at 8:58 AM, Is Milse Póg <[2]ishdai...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
   I am a young amateur lute player (just 21), so I guess I am a part
 of
   the next generation of players. I think the lute will continue to
 be
   played for the foreseeable future, since there's always someone
 strange
   enough to fall in love with the lute's music and sound, but it's
 sad to
   see little to no young people in ancient music and classical music
   concerts in general. Perhaps it has to do with the distance that
 has
   grown between contemporary composers and the general population,
 the
   former usually earning their bread through the academia.

 It has to do with classical music being a taste that listeners tend
 to acquire as they get older. Old listeners are replaced with lots
 of middle-aged listeners, and not so many young ones.
 Alarms about the "graying of the classical audience" have been
 sounded for decades, and in the USA probably peaked in 1988. The
 general manager of the public classical music station in Los Angeles
 came back from the Audience 88 conference that year convinced that
 classical music was dying and he had to wean the station away from
 it. He was gone within a year or so. The station was was playing
 Satie, Rossini and Beethoven this morning.
 It reminds me of the line in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
 that the galactic emperor is "nearly dead and has been for
 centuries."
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=KMYvwUsvGjaVOD6cleXVSoMKP9nFd3ijL9CQFs5llgM=rL3IU7WixPtSojb1
 442MfyTRogbgFqqku0HzR8Www9A=

   --
   Nancy Carlin
   Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
   [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__LuteSocietyofAme
   rica.org=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8
   OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=KMYvwUsvGjaVOD6cleXVSoMKP9nFd3
   ijL9CQFs5llgM=9uKqMn_O5Ddb4-DQGS5qFnN-QZ9vPieA_V4o_tsFXTU=
   PO Box 6499

[LUTE] Re: The lute list is retiring soon

[John Mardinly]

   Many thanks for your years of dedicated service. I hope you have great
   enjoyment and many healthy years ahead of you. I have been enjoying my
   retirement so I hope you enjoy yours too. Best to you.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Aug 22, 2020, at 12:04 PM, Wayne <[1]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   Hi -
I have been running this lute mail list since 1998, and it has been
   interesting and fun.  Now I am retiring from my job at Dartmouth
   College, and when I retire the computers that I have run will be shut
   down.  This includes the  mail servers that run the lute mail list.  So
   it is time to retire from running the lute mail list too.  I will also
   be closing my lute web page, my lute tablature page, and "Lutes For
   Sale" web page.
If someone wants to take up running the lute mail list I suggest that
   they announce it on my list in the next month, while my list is still
   running.  My list runs using software that I wrote, and I don't
   recommend that someone else try to use it.  I don't know the last day
   yet, but I will make an announcement when my list actually closes.
 Wayne
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=0ux
   rE8Vq2AVRZFbT6GBacn1JSGB4irdk3Pk_da3MtFQ^yoF5iuZGdSkaoERhVfMTarb1wu24
   O0N33LxH6LafA=

References

   1. mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=0uxrE8Vq2AVRZFbT6GBacn1JSGB4irdk3Pk_da3MtFQ^yoF5iuZGdSkaoERhVfMTarb1wu24O0N33LxH6LafA=

[LUTE] Re: Julian Brean has died

[John Mardinly]

   My first vivid exposure to Julian Bream was in 1964 when I was 15 and
   he appeared on 'The Johnny Carson Show', a very popular American late
   night talk show. When he played 'Sir John Smith, His Almaine' something
   major was triggered in my brain, and I was hooked. After he played, he
   sat in the ‘guests' chair and talked a bit. Johnny Carson asked him how
   much he practiced, and he calmly stated ‘About 8 hours a day'. From
   then on, every day that I practiced less than 8 hours, I am reminded of
   that. I think that was pretty much every day since 1964.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Aug 14, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.bbc.com_new
   s_entertainment-2Darts-2D53777949=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1G
   ycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MUZZc
   cwKwYlVPcyQR-XBdI_CNtdYc9kht8ybJxf783w=QN8s60YahAfiR6zlgwqPjbDO0kA1w0
   tvF6nNiI2669Q=
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MUZ
   ZccwKwYlVPcyQR-XBdI_CNtdYc9kht8ybJxf783w=DJhMJGEh1MBoYcsch-7pWbiqnh-F
   MEG-s4t1MzBIIa8=

References

   1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.bbc.com_news_entertainment-2Darts-2D53777949=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MUZZccwKwYlVPcyQR-XBdI_CNtdYc9kht8ybJxf783w=QN8s60YahAfiR6zlgwqPjbDO0kA1w0tvF6nNiI2669Q=
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MUZZccwKwYlVPcyQR-XBdI_CNtdYc9kht8ybJxf783w=DJhMJGEh1MBoYcsch-7pWbiqnh-FMEG-s4t1MzBIIa8=

[LUTE] Re: Ris: Re: fronimo under wine?

[John Mardinly]

   Tristan;

   Actually, Bill Gates DID sell most of his shares. He now owns 1% of
   Microsoft. The vast majority of the shares are owned by institutional
   investors such as pension funds, insurance companies ETF's, etc. Hell,
   I own Microsoft shares, but I don't use Windows…because it's horrible,
   which you can't even blame Gates for, anymore.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Aug 10, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

 Did he sell all his shares too?...
 As far as I know, he's still a major shareholder.
 So your argument is meaningless.
 On 10.08.20 23:24, John Mardinly wrote:
 Bill Gates turned the Microsoft CEO job over to Steve Balmer TWENTY
 years ago.
     A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Tristan von Neumann
 <[1][2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 I agree.
 Also, I wouldn't want to give anything to Mr. Gates.
 On 10.08.20 20:45, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote:
   I already have a setup like that.  I have a win10 machine running a
   virtual machine under hyper-v that is running ubuntu linux. Both
   work
   OK, but I would like to ditch windows altogether. Maybe that's
   silly,
   but on principle I would like to  be running open source as much as
   possible. Except for fronimo, of course.
   --Sarge
   On 8/10/2020 11:01, guy_and_liz Smith wrote:
   Back before I retired from the tech industry (2015), I used Vagrant
   with VirtualBox on a Linux computer to run various operating
   systems
   as virtual machines, mostly for development and testing purposes
   (Vagrant basically simplifies using VMs, including but not limited
   to
   VirtualBox). Strictly, you need a license to run Windows 10 in a
   virtual machine, although if you don't connect to the internet it
   will probably work OK. Never actually tried it, though. IIRC, you
   can
   get free Vagrant boxes to run earlier versions of Windows, which
   might be an option as long as Fronimo doesn't have Windows 10
   specific code.
   Guy
   -Original Message-
   From: [2][3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   [[3][4]mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
   [4][5]lastrai...@interfree.it
   Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 10:23 AM
   To: Tristan von Neumann; [5][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Ris: Re: fronimo under wine?
   In my experience Fronimo cannot work "directly" on a Linux
   platform
   using Wine. But an alternative way to make it work is to
   install
   in
   your Linux a Virtual Machine that let you run Windows: first
   thing to
   do is creating a Windows Virtual Machine. Second step is to
   install and
   run FRONIMO as normal. This is not a 100%"pure" Linux solution
   but it
   works well, printing procedures etc. included. Hope this can
   help.
   Gian Luca Lastraioli
    Messaggio originale 
   Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: fronimo under wine?
   Da: Tristan von Neumann
   A: [6][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   CC:
 I agree. I would buy Fronimo if it worked properly under
   Linux.
 I had trouble in the demo version. Printing to file didn't
   work
 (blank
 pages though the preview is visible. Is this deliberate?).
 That's sad because I have some fronimo files from the yahoo
   group I
 would have loved to print.
 Also I would love to contribute to Sarge's archive.
 On 10.08.20 17:54, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote:

 Many people that would like to run fronimo cannot do so

   because
 they

 are on a linux platform.Ã,  My website is hosted on a linux

 machine, all

 on the software I use in maintaining the site is linux-based

 (python,

 actually) and I would like to convert all my work to linux.

   It's
 only

 fronimo that is holding me back.
 Has anyone succeeded in running fronimo in linux under wine?

   I
 have

 ubuntu 20.04 and wine 5.0. I can install fronimo OK, but

   firing up
 a

 fronimo file, the first page is blank.
 Possibly there are configuration options under wine that

   would
 make

 fronimo work.
 Any success, anyone?
 --Sarge

 To get on or off this list see list information at
   [7][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur04.sa
   feli
   nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmou
   t
   [9]h.edu-252F-7Ewbc-252Flute-2Dadmin-252Findex.html-26amp-3Bdata-3D
   02-2
   57C01-257C-257Cd38f77f2eebd4a9efff108d83

[LUTE] Re: Ris: Re: fronimo under wine?

[John Mardinly]

   Bill Gates turned the Microsoft CEO job over to Steve Balmer TWENTY
   years ago.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   I agree.
   Also, I wouldn't want to give anything to Mr. Gates.
   On 10.08.20 20:45, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote:

 I already have a setup like that.  I have a win10 machine running a
 virtual machine under hyper-v that is running ubuntu linux. Both
 work
 OK, but I would like to ditch windows altogether. Maybe that's
 silly,
 but on principle I would like to  be running open source as much as
 possible. Except for fronimo, of course.
 --Sarge
 On 8/10/2020 11:01, guy_and_liz Smith wrote:

 Back before I retired from the tech industry (2015), I used Vagrant
 with VirtualBox on a Linux computer to run various operating systems
 as virtual machines, mostly for development and testing purposes
 (Vagrant basically simplifies using VMs, including but not limited
 to
 VirtualBox). Strictly, you need a license to run Windows 10 in a
 virtual machine, although if you don't connect to the internet it
 will probably work OK. Never actually tried it, though. IIRC, you
 can
 get free Vagrant boxes to run earlier versions of Windows, which
 might be an option as long as Fronimo doesn't have Windows 10
 specific code.
 Guy
 -Original Message-
 From: [2]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 [[3]mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of
 [4]lastrai...@interfree.it
 Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 10:23 AM
 To: Tristan von Neumann; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Ris: Re: fronimo under wine?
 In my experience Fronimo cannot work "directly" on a Linux
 platform
 using Wine. But an alternative way to make it work is to install
 in
 your Linux a Virtual Machine that let you run Windows: first
 thing to
 do is creating a Windows Virtual Machine. Second step is to
 install and
 run FRONIMO as normal. This is not a 100%"pure" Linux solution
 but it
 works well, printing procedures etc. included. Hope this can
 help.
 Gian Luca Lastraioli
  Messaggio originale 
 Oggetto: [LUTE] Re: fronimo under wine?
 Da: Tristan von Neumann
 A: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 CC:
   I agree. I would buy Fronimo if it worked properly under
 Linux.
   I had trouble in the demo version. Printing to file didn't
 work
   (blank
   pages though the preview is visible. Is this deliberate?).
   That's sad because I have some fronimo files from the yahoo
 group I
   would have loved to print.
   Also I would love to contribute to Sarge's archive.
   On 10.08.20 17:54, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D. wrote:
   > Many people that would like to run fronimo cannot do so
 because
   they
   > are on a linux platform.Ã,  My website is hosted on a linux
   machine, all
   > on the software I use in maintaining the site is linux-based
   (python,
   > actually) and I would like to convert all my work to linux.
 It's
   only
   > fronimo that is holding me back.
   >
   > Has anyone succeeded in running fronimo in linux under wine?
 I
   have
   > ubuntu 20.04 and wine 5.0. I can install fronimo OK, but
 firing up
   a
   > fronimo file, the first page is blank.
   >
   > Possibly there are configuration options under wine that
 would
   make
   > fronimo work.
   >
   > Any success, anyone?
   >
   > --Sarge
   >
   To get on or off this list see list information at
 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur04.safelinks
 .protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmouth.e
 du-252F-7Ewbc-252Flute-2Dadmin-252Findex.html-26amp-3Bdata-3D02-257C
 01-257C-257Cd38f77f2eebd4a9efff108d83d5391a9-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb43
 5-257C1-257C0-257C637326776419042347-26amp-3Bsdata-3DDtb
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 served-3D0=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=
 VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=g1prg-mtGkFLNs2kD-UHkW
 zzsDFQwmPJnRKa3pvx5_4�mRk8igl1mAA0SjGF-rRXRPHOfzOIE_KGf7L8dFpNk

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:lastrai...@interfree.it

[LUTE] Re: Lute strap

[John Mardinly]

I’ve been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit that 
holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works for me now is 
rubberized shelf liner:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1_rd_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkzMDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Cut out a 15’x15’ piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the left leg 
like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a guitar a bit more 
stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist


> On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is possible.
> 
> Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where it is, 
> unsupported?
> 
> Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it’s artistically right.
> 
> Arthur: What?
> 
> WOB: The Law of Gravity isn’t as indiscriminate as people often think. You 
> learn things like that when you’re a bird.
> 
> --Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the Tenth 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0DBLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI2u_3cw-r5nvTuEw=
>  

[LUTE] Re: A Pavan

[John Mardinly]

   But if we had listened to the part of Gate's message about pandemics,
   we would not be in the pickle we are in now.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 31, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   That's correct.
   Let's hope this doesn't apply to today.
   I would not be happy with Lord Protector Bill Gates.
   On 31.03.20 19:51, Alain Veylit wrote:

 "these distracted times" referred to the Civil War.
 On 3/30/20 5:29 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

 ..for these distracted times.
 (Thomas Tomkins)
 [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.
 com_watch-3Fv-3D0z2BEKuWANA=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN
 4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7u5SJ
 CcKHP7s4gUOfv5YNJpfU7mhSSEt2dKqgG-8cSE=q4g9d-J22X5YpvBYs1zUMFZEzZH
 gosgzY1_a0KmDEEk=
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=7u5SJCcKHP7s4gUOfv5YNJpfU7mhSSEt2dKqgG-8cSE=O449WWOR1qSbimUy
 0LzrfQ3jjjN5g81h-df8WWCwjfM=

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D0z2BEKuWANA=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7u5SJCcKHP7s4gUOfv5YNJpfU7mhSSEt2dKqgG-8cSE=q4g9d-J22X5YpvBYs1zUMFZEzZHgosgzY1_a0KmDEEk=
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7u5SJCcKHP7s4gUOfv5YNJpfU7mhSSEt2dKqgG-8cSE=O449WWOR1qSbimUy0LzrfQ3jjjN5g81h-df8WWCwjfM=

[LUTE] Re: Oops:Double Top

[John Mardinly]

   Another thing I forgot, was last week I saw online (in a prescription
   channel) an interview with Sharon Isbin. She had recently tried out
   Scott Tenant's Antonius Muller double top, found that she could express
   her musical ideas better with the Antonius Muller double top than with
   her older guitar, a Thomas Humphries, an excellent solid top guitar,
   and thus purchased an Antonius Muller double top for herself. So this
   is the driver: when top performers decide they can express their
   musical ideas better with a newer sort of construction, that is what
   validates it, not because the luthiers want to make it. The lute is
   amenable to this construction because the tops are flat, and it will be
   up to some luthier to try it and for top performers to validate it.

   BTW, I just ran across an interview with Gernot Wagner, one of the
   prominent luthiers of these instruments:

   [1]https://classicalguitarmagazine.com/gernot-wagner-the-master-luthier
   -on-the-double-top-movement-and-his-influences-2/?utm_source=Classical+
   Guitar_campaign�87c52354-CGN_RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_medium=email
   m_term=0_4fb5dcb616-b287c52354-361014909_cid�87c52354_eid8806f77a

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 26, 2020, at 4:38 AM, Joachim Lüdtke <[2]jo.lued...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

 And what I simply forgot in my first mail on this topic: Among the
 newly built guitars shown and played during the guitar days at the
 Bremen Hochschule there actually was at least one with a
 Sandwich/Laminate/Double Top, plus there was one with a
 soundboard/barring construction following the principles and ideas of
 Steve Klein, but with a quite 'traditional' outline. That I
   personally
 could not make much difference between the instruments when played
   may
 have been due to my bad ear as much as to the fact, that one and the
 same woman played all the instruments to the people attending, and
   that
 this woman is known for her good, personal sound production on the
 guitar. In short: I suspect that she could have easily brought out
 different strengths and weaknisses of different instruments but
   seemed
 to rather bring the best out of them within the limits of a
 'conventional' classic guitar sound spectrum.
 There also was a lecture by one of the young guitar builders who
   among
 other topics covered soundboard construction methods, including
 sandwich construction. At one point he summed it up with the words:
   "It
 all sounds guitar to me, and when it would not, it would alarm me."
 Joachim
   Thank you John, David, and everyone else who replied and
   contributed
 so
far! My lute/guitar lexigraphy is quite a bit enriched now.
As to the lute: I think I prefer the traditional construction and
materials for the historic instrument.
All best
Joachim
 Lektorat & Korrektorat
 Dr. Joachim Lüdtke
 Blumenstraße 20
 D-90762 Fürth
 Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20
 Mail: [1][3]jo.lued...@t-online.de
 [2][4]www.lektorat-luedtke.de
 Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren
 [3][5]www.vfll.de
 [4][6]www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke
  --
   References
 1. [7]mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
 2.
   [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lektorat-2Dl
   uedtke.de_=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLP
   J8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=GJn3cqcZy_1c-okXLWpQB2o9PalP
   9b3FAR51fVuo8bg=NJljfMPGwiqORAvnmyTOBFH7R3wlJfVNpFnCWhlkekw=
 3.
   [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.vfll.de_=D
   wIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE
   1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=GJn3cqcZy_1c-okXLWpQB2o9PalP9b3FAR51fVuo8b
   g=6iMwy4QFClYRY_aNc1u8S1NwDyb6ArdSrzKCOofTpoY=
 4.
   [10]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lektoren.de
   _profil_joachim-2Dluedtke=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jI
   nuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=GJn3cqcZy_1c-
   okXLWpQB2o9PalP9b3FAR51fVuo8bg=v6pnEDwOxe3QSCu1GIbJmmVz0Q8146py14htGs
   ZtrCU=
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=GJ
   n3cqcZy_1c-okXLWpQB2o9PalP9b3FAR51fVuo8bg=R76R9_RXF7eNeA5IgjDip8ZpMvD
   NzXANS383FVea2ls=

References

   1. 
https://classicalguitarmagazine.com/gernot-wagner-the-master-luthier-on-the-double-top-movement-and-his-influences-2/?utm_source=Classical+Guitar_campaign�87c52354-CGN_RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_medium=email_term=0_4fb5dcb616-b287c52354-361014909_cid�87c52354_eid8806f77a
   2. mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
   3. mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
   4.

[LUTE] Re: Double Top

[John Mardinly]

   That is a serious concern. Repairability of the top is something that
   is probably very limited, although the rest of the construction and
   bracing is fairly conventional. My luthier gave me a 10 year written
   warranty, although with me being nearly 71 and corona virus all around,
   the big question is will I have sufficient longevity.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 25, 2020, at 5:43 PM,
   [1]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:

 My concern with a double top is longevity: How will that top hold up
 50, 100, 150 years from now? Any structure built up from layers glued
 together, and subject to vibration, will presumably come apart,
 eventually. What will look like in a double top? Loose Braces,
   detached
 bridges are usually relatively easy to repair on a solid top guitar,
 but will structural failure on a double top destroy the instrument?
   How
 do these epoxies hold up over time? Do they become more brittle?
   Maybe
 I've had too many instruments in need of significant repair, but I am
 concerned about how these double tops will fare with decades of use.
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-yO
   hA50WK65NW3xBMgXuMiHTVsdYObz1K0em5_69r9E=-o3eIq8lcHOWVWfPilfhFX-n7q4z
   ucgiu3hUG00o7lk=

   --

References

   1. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-yOhA50WK65NW3xBMgXuMiHTVsdYObz1K0em5_69r9E=-o3eIq8lcHOWVWfPilfhFX-n7q4zucgiu3hUG00o7lk=

[LUTE] Re: Double Top

[John Mardinly]

   If I could have gotten a Matthias Damman for 15,000 euros, I would get
   two. From what I have seen, they go for something like $35,000 US, and
   there is a 10 year wait list for a new one. I bought a Jeremy Cooper
   ([1]http://cooperguitars.com/index.html) had only a 1.5 year wait and
   paid just a third of what a Damman or Smallman would cost, plus I got a
   magnificent instrument.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:18 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   For that money, I'd buy a Lute consort...
   I don't see any advantage...
   On 25.03.20 11:40, Jurgen Frenz wrote:

 I read about the process to make such an instrument - from memory
 the two slices are glued together under vacuum, to me it sounds like
 quite a costly process. The guitars made by the inventor of this
 technology Matthias Dammann cost 15 000 € a pop.
 Jürgne
 ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
 On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:04 AM, Mark Probert
 <[3]probe...@gmail.com> wrote:

 John wrote:

 Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any
 luthiers interested in trying?

 Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure.
 I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really
 any advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process
 for starters, workin with nomex or similar, etc.).
 The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there
 may be occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with
 an overly stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of
 what makes a lute sound the way it does.
 Consider the following article for more
 [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitarsa
 lon.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2
 jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=_swV1K8n
 UohakUi8vzvNcQte1kr4tZz5zh2_HI-c7Mw=v3Jq1lfqaKmC9hX0EaIJ08uxUtpBQP
 gdMK6pChrGkhw=
 Kind regards
 .. mark.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=_swV1K8nUohakUi8vzvNcQte1kr4tZz5zh2_HI-c7Mw=6to1Dj_ncz0pc4AW
 VMIlgOEPfXaZVa42NRsUgu7S09s=

References

   1. http://cooperguitars.com/index.html
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. mailto:probe...@gmail.com
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitarsalon.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=_swV1K8nUohakUi8vzvNcQte1kr4tZz5zh2_HI-c7Mw=v3Jq1lfqaKmC9hX0EaIJ08uxUtpBQPgdMK6pChrGkhw=
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=_swV1K8nUohakUi8vzvNcQte1kr4tZz5zh2_HI-c7Mw=6to1Dj_ncz0pc4AWVMIlgOEPfXaZVa42NRsUgu7S09s=

[LUTE] Re: Double Top

[John Mardinly]

   The first time I heard Jason Vieaux on a Gernot Wagner, was in a
   church. I had never heard of Gernot Wagner at the time, and did not
   know any of the details of the construction. I thought the incredible
   sound, response and sustain was because of the church. I was wrong. It
   was the guitar.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 25, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Edward Martin <[1]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Two years ago, classic guitar virtuoso Jason Vieaux visited my city and
   had an incredible concert and master class. Jason is a Grammy winning
   artist. His guitar had a double top, and it was perhaps the loudest
   guitar I have ever heard. I played a small passage on it (he offered)
   and it is incredible, robust, a great instrument.
   I wonder if such aesthetics would emote the truly sweet, beautiful
   sound of our concept of how a good lite should sound.
   Ed
   Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 25, 2020, at 6:21 PM, John Mardinly
 <[2]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
    I have heard the terminology ‘composite top' and 'sandwich top'
 in
  addition to ‘double top', and they all refer to similar
 construction,
  although the earliest ‘double top' guitars used a layer of a
 hexagonal
  synthetic material called Nomex in between the two paper thin
 layers on
  wood.
  A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
  Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
  On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Joachim Lüdtke
 <[1][3]jo.lued...@t-online.de>
  wrote:
  Dear David, dear list,
  I was a bit puzzled at first because I know the term double top,
 but
  only pointing to instruments like e.g. Marcard guitars with a
 second,
  'interior' soundboard. What you describe is what I think is usually
  called a sandwiched soundboard. Is my terminology too limited or do
 I
  use it too strictly?
  A few weeks ago, before the darn Corona guy rode into town, there
 were
  guitar days here in the Hochschule für Kunst und Musik in Bremen,
 and
  there were young builders showing their recently finished guitars,
 and
  one of the guitar teachers of the Hochschule playing a few measures
 on
  each of them. Most sounded excellent, and I am ashamed to say that
 I
  couldn't make much difference between the majority of the sounds,
  neither did I ask for prices …
  Best from the Hanseatics
  Joachim
  -Original-Nachricht-
  Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
  Datum: 2020-03-25T17:44:36+0100
  Von: "David Smith" <[2][4]d...@dolcesfogato.com>
  An: "Tristan von Neumann" <[3][5]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>,
  "[4][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[5][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  That cost is what a master builder charges for classical guitars -
  10k-20k is pretty normal. The cost of doing a double top is really
 not
  that high. The materials are not expensive and vacuum is used for a
 lot
  of other things in the shop. I use it for attaching bridges and
 holding
  instruments while French polishing. The Dammann price is based on
 his
  reputation and not on it being a double top. You should be able to
 find
  good quality double tops starting around 3-4k.
  As to using it on a lute, you have to like the sound of it because
 it
  is clearly not historical. I, personally, do not like the sound of
  double tops that much. They sacrifice character for volume, imho.
 But,
  if you are trying to fill a concert hall without a microphone then
  there are already a lot of sacrifices being made and the double top
 is
  just one more. For a more intimate setting I think it is overkill.
 The
  bracing from Trevor Gore (Falcate system -
  [6][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__goreguit
 ars.com
  .au_main_page-5Finnovation-5Fsummary-5Ffalcate-5Fbracing.html=DwI
 FaQ&
  c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1f
 tlvx
  MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ&
 s=hl
  0F5qUAGqTuToEdzrjzuTjZ3Rl4kFVBRh16ZCVLBts= ) is more interesting.
 It
  makes for a very even sound throughout the instrument and provides
 more
  volume as well. Would I use it on a lute. Not likely.
  Anyway, some random thoughts.
  David
  -Original Message-
  From: [7][9]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
  <[8][10]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of
 Tristan von
  Neumann
  Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:18 AM
  To: [9][11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
  For that money, I'd buy a Lute consort...
  I don't see any advantage...
  On 25.03.20 11:40, Jurgen Frenz wrote:
I read a

[LUTE] Re: Double Top

[John Mardinly]

   Mark;

   Interesting article, but I would take issue with many of his points, as
   did many of the 58 people that responded to the blog. He got a headache
   and bellyache from listening to a guitar in a concert hall? I think
   that borders on hysterics. To say that Segovia would not approve belies
   the fact that Segovia constantly longed for a louder guitar, hence the
   development of the Ramirez 1A. So loud, I got complaints from my
   neighbors when I had one, but to difficult to play for someone without
   Segovia's monstrous hands. Best to have an older Hauser? Yes, but they
   are in short supply. Stenzel laments that demand for guitars like his
   are not like the demand for double tops, but seriously, most of the top
   guitarists in the world today play double top guitars from Gernot
   Wagner, Matthias Dahmann, Antonius Muller, Garrett Lee and Greg
   Smallman, which really isn't a double top, but has similar performance.
   These makers command prices up $40,000 with a 10 year waiting list due
   to high demand, because players want those guitars, even if Stenzel
   believes they should not want them! Stenzel claims that double tops
   don't have sustain? Mine does, and most of the ones I have heard do. I
   will admit that the tone is less ‘warm' than my 54 year old Manuel
   Velazquez, a Hauser copy, but my new guitar, made by an up and coming
   master craftsman, Jeremy Cooper, using spruce, not cedar, had only a
   1.5 year wait and a price just a fraction of a Smallman, and it is a
   very lively, responsive instrument that I am thrilled with.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 24, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Mark Probert <[1]probe...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   John wrote:

   Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any
   luthiers interested in trying?

   Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure.
   I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really
   any advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process
   for starters, workin with nomex or similar, etc.).
   The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there
   may be occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with
   an overly stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of
   what makes a lute sound the way it does.
   Consider the following article for more
[2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitarsalo
   n.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467=DwICAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK
   y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=VO17TMFd5AE45xeT
   L5CpHHfeYKx4wE0Oyg1ymaOAVwg=Fqp32HQ4e5x4deCkMBtUOHeu7QHo5OJHmZGGzwvvN
   BM=
   Kind regards
   .. mark.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=VO1
   7TMFd5AE45xeTL5CpHHfeYKx4wE0Oyg1ymaOAVwg=w7_xDF9LDLHk93wBMFCtTGvsS7cf
   6-zPr_I-yG8zSvE=

References

   1. mailto:probe...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitarsalon.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467=DwICAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=VO17TMFd5AE45xeTL5CpHHfeYKx4wE0Oyg1ymaOAVwg=Fqp32HQ4e5x4deCkMBtUOHeu7QHo5OJHmZGGzwvvNBM=
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=VO17TMFd5AE45xeTL5CpHHfeYKx4wE0Oyg1ymaOAVwg=w7_xDF9LDLHk93wBMFCtTGvsS7cf6-zPr_I-yG8zSvE=

[LUTE] Re: Double Top

[John Mardinly]

   I have heard the terminology ‘composite top' and 'sandwich top' in
   addition to ‘double top', and they all refer to similar construction,
   although the earliest ‘double top' guitars used a layer of a hexagonal
   synthetic material called Nomex in between the two paper thin layers on
   wood.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 25, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Joachim Lüdtke <[1]jo.lued...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

   Dear David, dear list,
   I was a bit puzzled at first because I know the term double top, but
   only pointing to instruments like e.g. Marcard guitars with a second,
   'interior' soundboard. What you describe is what I think is usually
   called a sandwiched soundboard. Is my terminology too limited or do I
   use it too strictly?
   A few weeks ago, before the darn Corona guy rode into town, there were
   guitar days here in the Hochschule für Kunst und Musik in Bremen, and
   there were young builders showing their recently finished guitars, and
   one of the guitar teachers of the Hochschule playing a few measures on
   each of them. Most sounded excellent, and I am ashamed to say that I
   couldn't make much difference between the majority of the sounds,
   neither did I ask for prices …
   Best from the Hanseatics
   Joachim
   -Original-Nachricht-
   Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
   Datum: 2020-03-25T17:44:36+0100
   Von: "David Smith" <[2]d...@dolcesfogato.com>
   An: "Tristan von Neumann" <[3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>,
   "[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   That cost is what a master builder charges for classical guitars -
   10k-20k is pretty normal. The cost of doing a double top is really not
   that high. The materials are not expensive and vacuum is used for a lot
   of other things in the shop. I use it for attaching bridges and holding
   instruments while French polishing. The Dammann price is based on his
   reputation and not on it being a double top. You should be able to find
   good quality double tops starting around 3-4k.
   As to using it on a lute, you have to like the sound of it because it
   is clearly not historical. I, personally, do not like the sound of
   double tops that much. They sacrifice character for volume, imho. But,
   if you are trying to fill a concert hall without a microphone then
   there are already a lot of sacrifices being made and the double top is
   just one more. For a more intimate setting I think it is overkill. The
   bracing from Trevor Gore (Falcate system -
   [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__goreguitars.com
   .au_main_page-5Finnovation-5Fsummary-5Ffalcate-5Fbracing.html=DwIFaQ&
   c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx
   MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ftBiwVy6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ=hl
   0F5qUAGqTuToEdzrjzuTjZ3Rl4kFVBRh16ZCVLBts= ) is more interesting. It
   makes for a very even sound throughout the instrument and provides more
   volume as well. Would I use it on a lute. Not likely.
   Anyway, some random thoughts.
   David
   -Original Message-
   From: [7]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   <[8]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of Tristan von
   Neumann
   Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 9:18 AM
   To: [9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Double Top
   For that money, I'd buy a Lute consort...
   I don't see any advantage...
   On 25.03.20 11:40, Jurgen Frenz wrote:

 I read about the process to make such an instrument - from memory
 the two slices are glued together under vacuum, to me it sounds like
 quite a costly process. The guitars made by the inventor of this
 technology Matthias Dammann cost 15 000 € a pop.
 Jürgne
 ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
 On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 2:04 AM, Mark Probert
 <[10]probe...@gmail.com> wrote:

 John wrote:

 Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any luthiers
 interested in trying?

 Interesting technology. As applied to a lute? Not so sure.
 I suspect someone will but most won't as there is not really any
 advantage and much disadvantage (the lamination process for
 starters,
 workin with nomex or similar, etc.).
 The problem this construction "fixes" is loudness. While there may
 be
 occassions when a lute is too soft, making up for it with an overly
 stiff soundboard would, I suspect, take away much of what makes a
 lute sound the way it does.
 Consider the following article for more
 [11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.guitars
 alon.com_blog_-3Fp-3D1467=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_
 2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ftBiwVy
 6my8Jghtq9GSLqxpeyK73pixj5LSQEZHAiYQ=yrLjgm1jpe8Pk-Xcuhj76e-HcnTDD
 AuAbyvOQzJWmg0=

[LUTE] Double Top

[John Mardinly]

   Last summer, I purchased a ‘double top' guitar. The sound this
   instrument produces is astounding. It looks like a normal guitar, but
   the top consists of two layers of wood a half millimeter thick with a
   latticework of thin balsa wood strips in between for reinforcement. The
   result is a slab suitable for an instrument top that is much less dense
   than any solid wood and thus vibrates more easily yet still has
   sufficient strength to withstand the stress of the strings on the
   bridge. Question is, has this been tried on a lute? Are there any
   luthiers interested in trying?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Mar 23, 2020, at 10:20 PM, David van Ooijen
   <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:

 This is what I made a while ago with my guitar (and one lute!) pupil.
 [1][2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_-
   5Frd4ybtec4Y=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=V
   LPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7_nqWFrXqIFDsOhjWGSrNT1E4
   Gm0tnLie2Pb6saiaA=NXpYB9panSORS1wHZF56I315HDkmC4kfG1KQStwHa4I=
 David
 On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 00:41, Alain Veylit
 <[2][3]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:
   A somewhat more elaborate take on the same idea - also using a
   master
   tape, but took about a year to record in "real time":
   [3][4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.yout
   ube.com_watch-3Fv-3Dph1GU1qQ1zQ=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gyc
   N4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7_nqWF
   rXqIFDsOhjWGSrNT1E4Gm0tnLie2Pb6saiaA=vDtH7embWEqv73Vdex3YtDsNtZf9nAWp
   WvtkI2WjAQg=
   Luthistes de tous les pays unissez-vous!
   On 3/23/20 3:30 PM, howard posner wrote:

 On Mar 23, 2020, at 8:12 AM, Diego Cantalupi

   <[4][5]tio...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Each one with his/her phone.
 Il 23/03/2020 16:11, Dr. Henner Kahlert ha scritto:

 Wonderful! With which device did you manage to play and record

   this?

 Could you share how you did it?
 Two days ago I tried to lead our small congregation in a virtual

   service using Zoom, and it was impossible to synchronize it. Even
   if
   our mouths were moving in unison, it was cacophony.

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
 tmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQ
 usp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZON
 BRt90E=Q7_nqWFrXqIFDsOhjWGSrNT1E4Gm0tnLie2Pb6saiaA=KB0q6iBbV2bYP
 8RQzSThRnFRaBVeGR-3KDzDBcsyMrw=

 --
 ***
 David van Ooijen
 [6][7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 [7][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__davidvanoo
   ijen.wordpress.com=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zb
   qQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7_nqWFrXqIFDsOhjWGS
   rNT1E4Gm0tnLie2Pb6saiaA=
 ***
 --
   References
 1.
   [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_-5Frd4
   ybtec4Y=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8O
   E-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7_nqWFrXqIFDsOhjWGSrNT1E4Gm0tn
   Lie2Pb6saiaA=NXpYB9panSORS1wHZF56I315HDkmC4kfG1KQStwHa4I=
 2. [10]mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
 3.
   [11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.co
   m_watch-3Fv-3Dph1GU1qQ1zQ=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jI
   nuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7_nqWFrXqIFD
   sOhjWGSrNT1E4Gm0tnLie2Pb6saiaA=vDtH7embWEqv73Vdex3YtDsNtZf9nAWpWvtkI2
   WjAQg=
 4. [12]mailto:tio...@gmail.com
 5.
   [13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7
   _nqWFrXqIFDsOhjWGSrNT1E4Gm0tnLie2Pb6saiaA=KB0q6iBbV2bYP8RQzSThRnFRaBV
   eGR-3KDzDBcsyMrw=
 6. [14]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 7.
   [15]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.davidvanooi
   jen.nl_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8O
   E-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7_nqWFrXqIFDsOhjWGSrNT1E4Gm0tn
   Lie2Pb6saiaA=Rr2HrTyaLe6wuuVO7IJPKhsh-UXv8UtDDK07rzO09nQ=

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_-5Frd4ybtec4Y=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q7_nqWFrXqIFDsOhjWGSrNT1E4Gm0tnLie2Pb6saiaA=NXpYB9panSORS1wHZF56I315HDkmC4kfG1KQStwHa4I=
   3. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Dph1GU1qQ1zQ=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joG

[LUTE] Re: Android OS software

[John Mardinly]

   Daniel;

   Thanks! That video by YouTubeConservatory was excellent. This is a real
   eye-opener for someone who might have been considering an iPad.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Jan 5, 2020, at 1:17 PM, Daniel Shoskes <[1]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 I ended up getting the Boox Max 3
 [1][2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtub
   e.com_watch-3Fv-3DQ6wgf4WWS3o-26feature-3Demb-5Flogo=DwIBAg=l45AxH-
   kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6m
   pKZONBRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucaveVvMlfy3lFfciB7YOch-M=uRyxCSMenZo
   H52j1UcQbRbvW0y0zpFiqZtjRrAWSfbA=
 Tutorial by a pianist for the Boox Max
 2
   [2][3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_U2j
   BA3lVXWI=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8
   OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucaveVvMlfy3
   lFfciB7YOch-M=Tp71pf2cMwQis6G1YvEaw-sId1DwVsmy3uVlvnASiM4=
 Happy to send you photos of how music looks on it (both computer
 generated and scanned MS) if you are interested.Very clear. Surface
 actually feels like paper. This version works with finger touch and
 with a stylus. Pairs with bluetooth pedals for page turns.
 Danny
 On Jan 5, 2020, at 3:01 PM, David van Ooijen
 <[3][4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Hi Dan
   Can we ask what device you have? I've been looking at e-ink sheet
 music
   readers lately, but I couldn't make my mind up.
   David
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1][4][5]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2][5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__david
   vanooijen.wordpress.com=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInu
   Ky6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5Y
   ANxucaveVvMlfy3lFfciB7YOch-M=YJNBiUBJKKqG1Yf6XNCD1IV2t0rxKJhR8_YRCifk
   -1E=
   ***
   On Sun, 5 Jan 2020 at 20:56, Daniel Shoskes
 <[3][6][7]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
 This is the year I've committed to reducing paper clutter
 throughout
 the house so I've finally bought a dedicated tablet for music
 storage and performance. I got a 13.3 inch E ink display which is
 friendly to my aging eyes and can fit a lot of music on 1 page.
   It
 is however the first device I have owned that runs Android (9.0)
 rather than iOS. Settled on MobileSheetsPro for sheet music
 management which has a dedicated E ink version (but no Mac or iOS
 equivalent).
 Would be interested to hear from anyone who uses Android software
 for lute music purposes on a tablet. Any valuable programs out
 there?
 Thanks
 Danny
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4][7][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.
   cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29
   SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZON
   BRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucaveVvMlfy3lFfciB7YOch-M=MVb2pIS-1tmD1SFn
   YpLKJzDctfUcb35_bNuWR2dzbcI=
   --
 References
   1. [8][9]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2.
   [9][10]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.davidvan
   ooijen.nl_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLP
   J8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucaveVvMlf
   y3lFfciB7YOch-M=N5-AHQvEmpzP3mv8kNFZf-PgKOfSfvr4rROCjg-Bn7k=
   3. [10][11]mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com
   4.
   [11][12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
   mouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9
   vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&
   m=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucaveVvMlfy3lFfciB7YOch-M=MVb2pIS-1tmD1SFnYpLKJzD
   ctfUcb35_bNuWR2dzbcI=
 --
   References
 1.
   [13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.co
   m_watch-3Fv-3DQ6wgf4WWS3o-26feature-3Demb-5Flogo=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV2
   9SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZO
   NBRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucaveVvMlfy3lFfciB7YOch-M=uRyxCSMenZoH52j
   1UcQbRbvW0y0zpFiqZtjRrAWSfbA=
 2.
   [14]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_U2jBA
   3lVXWI=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE
   -c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucaveVvMlfy3lF
   fciB7YOch-M=Tp71pf2cMwQis6G1YvEaw-sId1DwVsmy3uVlvnASiM4=
 3. [15]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 4. [16]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 5.
   [17]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__davidvanooijen
   .wordpress.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&
   r=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=fk0VoFypnSZlj5YANxucave
   VvMlfy3lFfciB7YOch-M=9NO9q0mgp4akz1pAjW67_SWhWg-3Rz

[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[John Mardinly]

   An alternative to super glue based fillers I would suggest is an epoxy
   I used for many years in electron microscopes called 'Torr Seal', which
   appears to be still available. It is a 2-part epoxy, so it must be
   mixed before application, but it is incredibly hard because the filler
   is finely powdered sapphire particles and the epoxy itself is much
   stronger than superglue. Downside is that it is expensive ($50),
   although one tube will probably repair hundreds of nuts and it has a
   long shelf life.

   [1]https://www.lesker.com/newweb/fluids/pdf/torrsealspecifications.pdf

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Steve Ramey <[2]stevera...@sbcglobal.net>
   wrote:

   Don't know about dentist's "dentine", but here's a trick that may
   help.
   [3]The baking soda and super glue trick

[youtube.png]

The baking soda and super glue trick

   "Can a broken nut can be fixed with baking soda and super glue?" Lou, a
   singer here in Athens, Ohio, brought thi...

   HTH,
   Steve

   On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 05:06:59 PM EST, John Mardinly
   <[4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
 I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter
   strings,
 especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a ‘v'
 shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of
 magic epoxy?
 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind
 <[1][5]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C
   was
   set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened
 to
   me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with
   equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put
 the
   Venices back and the problem went away.
   However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle
   appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had
   slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could
   have
   changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said
   he
   could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's
   dentine.
   This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could
   possibly work for you.
   On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like
   yourself,
 I
   have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave,
 but
   I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set
   up
   for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove
   Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will
   last
 a
   lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.
   Am I wrong about that?
   Best wishes
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
   <[2][6]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a écrit :
 I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8
 course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave half
 the
 diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g on
 6th
 blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding
 jangly,
 almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was
 poor
 (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched back
   to
 unison.
 I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same
 stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the height
   of
   the
 octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the
 bridge,
 but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with
 the
 octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot,
   what
 little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.  Perhaps further
   work
 with RH technique will further improve the sound.  Or--any other
 suggestions??
 Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
 Leonard Williams
 On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz
 <[1][2][3][7]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
   Hello there,
   I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm
   "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed
 the
   plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds
 quite
   the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on
 6c
   instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current
 sound
   "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the
   Savarez early music str

[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[John Mardinly]

   Very cool. Dan Erlewine is just so full of cool tricks-he is amazing.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Nov 28, 2019, at 4:16 PM, Steve Ramey <[1]stevera...@sbcglobal.net>
   wrote:

   Don't know about dentist's "dentine", but here's a trick that may
   help.
   [2]The baking soda and super glue trick

[youtube.png]

The baking soda and super glue trick

   "Can a broken nut can be fixed with baking soda and super glue?" Lou, a
   singer here in Athens, Ohio, brought thi...

   HTH,
   Steve

   On Thursday, November 28, 2019, 05:06:59 PM EST, John Mardinly
   <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
 I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter
   strings,
 especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a ‘v'
 shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of
 magic epoxy?
 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind
 <[1][4]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C
   was
   set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened
 to
   me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with
   equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put
 the
   Venices back and the problem went away.
   However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle
   appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had
   slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could
   have
   changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said
   he
   could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's
   dentine.
   This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could
   possibly work for you.
   On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like
   yourself,
 I
   have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave,
 but
   I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set
   up
   for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove
   Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will
   last
 a
   lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.
   Am I wrong about that?
   Best wishes
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
   <[2][5]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a écrit :
 I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8
 course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave half
 the
 diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g on
 6th
 blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding
 jangly,
 almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was
 poor
 (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched back
   to
 unison.
 I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same
 stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the height
   of
   the
 octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the
 bridge,
 but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with
 the
 octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot,
   what
 little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.  Perhaps further
   work
 with RH technique will further improve the sound.  Or--any other
 suggestions??
 Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
 Leonard Williams
 On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz
 <[1][2][3][6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
   Hello there,
   I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm
   "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed
 the
   plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds
 quite
   the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on
 6c
   instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current
 sound
   "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the
   Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover
   high
   frequencies with them.
   Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just
 get
   used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it
 would
   confuse voices.
   Hoping for some suggestions,
   Jurgen
   --
   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."
   JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi
   To get on or off this list see list

[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[John Mardinly]

   Well, the non-silver composites used for fillings today do have
   phenomenal properties, but I thought they all needed a special light to
   cure them.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Nov 28, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Anthony Hind
   <[1]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 A lutemaker friend did the work and I can't distinguish it from the
 original bone on the nut.
 He called it dentine. It seemed to be liquid and in a small bottle.
 Perhaps it's a sort of ceramic used for filling front teeth, but I
 admit I'm not sure. Perhaps a lute maker on the list will know.
 Best
 Anthony
 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 Le jeudi, novembre 28, 2019, 10:59 PM, John Mardinly
 <[2]john.mardi...@asu.edu> a écrit :
 I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter
   strings,
 especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a âv'
 shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of
 magic epoxy?
 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind
 <[2][3]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C
   was
   set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened
 to
   me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with
   equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put
 the
   Venices back and the problem went away.
   However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle
   appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had
   slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could
   have
   changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said
   he
   could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's
   dentine.
   This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could
   possibly work for you.
   On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like
   yourself,
 I
   have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave,
 but
   I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set
   up
   for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove
   Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will
   last
 a
   lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.
   Am I wrong about that?
   Best wishes
   Anthony
   [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
   Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
   <[3][4]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a à ©crit :
 I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8
 course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave half
 the
 diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g on
 6th
 blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding
 jangly,
 almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was
 poor
 (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched back
   to
 unison.
 I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same
 stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the height
   of
   the
 octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the
 bridge,
 but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with
 the
 octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot,
   what
 little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.  Perhaps further
   work
 with RH technique will further improve the sound.  Or--any other
 suggestions??
 Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
 Leonard Williams
 On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz
 <[1][2][4][5]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
   Hello there,
   I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm
   "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed
 the
   plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds
 quite
   the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on
 6c
   instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current
 sound
   "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the
   Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover
   high
   frequencies with them.
   Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just
 get
   used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it
 would
   confuse voices.
   Hoping for some suggestions,
   Jurgen
   --
   "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there

[LUTE] Re: Unison C string on 8c lutes

[John Mardinly]

   I have seen a similar problem when moving to smaller diameter strings,
   especially if the nut was filed with jeweler's files giving it a ‘v'
   shaped profile . However, what is 'dentist's dentine', some sort of
   magic epoxy?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Nov 28, 2019, at 1:32 AM, Anthony Hind
   <[1]agno3ph...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Could it perhaps be  Leonard, that the grooves at your nut at 5C was
 set up for your thicker unisson strings. Something similar happened
   to
 me on my 11C lute, when I replaced Venice twine unissons on F4 with
 equivalent thinner loaded strings. I heard a definite rattle. I put
   the
 Venices back and the problem went away.
 However later on my 3A unisson HT gut strings a  similar rattle
 appeared, I hadn't changed the diameter, but perhaps some wear had
 slightly widened the groove or the neck moved a little. I could have
 changed to slightly thicker strings, but a lute maker friend said he
 could lightly fill and raise the nut's groove with dentist's dentine.
 This did the trick, so this solution for changing to octaves could
 possibly work for you.
 On my 7C lute, on 5C, I have Venice twine unissons and like yourself,
   I
 have been thinking of moving to 1.00 Venice bass and 0.52HT octave,
   but
 I fear a similar problem will occur as the lute originally was set up
 for the unisons so with a wider 1.00mm groove
 Also, I imagine perhaps wrongly, that a 0,52 Ht gut string will last
   a
 lot less than a 1.00 Venice unisson.
 Am I wrong about that?
 Best wishes
 Anthony
 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 Le mercredi, novembre 27, 2019, 8:33 PM, Leonard Williams
 <[2]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> a écrit :
   I, too have had issues with octaves on the 5th course of my 8
   course lute.  I tried it several years ago, using an octave half
   the
   diameter of the bass (all in gut).  But, whereas the octave g on
   6th
   blended well with its bass, the octave c stood out, sounding
   jangly,
   almost as though I had a metal string on there.  Perhaps it was
   poor
   (thumb-in in this case) technique?  At any rate, I switched back to
   unison.
   I'm trying octaves again as a result of this discussion, same
   stringing.  One thing I paid careful attention to was the height of
 the
   octave: it stood a mere half millimeter above the bass at the
   bridge,
   but enough that I was striking the pair of strings unevenly, with
   the
   octave ringing out quite plainly.  I adjusted the bridge knot, what
   little I could, and the sound improved somewhat.  Perhaps further
 work
   with RH technique will further improve the sound.  Or--any other
   suggestions??
   Regards to all, and Happy (US) Thanksgiving!
   Leonard Williams
   On 23 nov. 2019, at 13:17, Jurgen Frenz
   <[1][2][3]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 Hello there,

 I have an 8c lute now since 10 months and from the beginning I'm

 "unhappy" with the sound of the unison C strings on it. I changed

   the

 plain Aquila strings to round-wound Aquilas but to me it sounds

   quite

 the same. What I'm missing is the high frequencies that we have on

   6c

 instruments with the octave string. In my mind I call the current

   sound

 "plastic-y". The maker of the instrument suggested to try out the

 Savarez early music strings but I do not think I would recover

 high

 frequencies with them.

 Any remedies that you have tried out with success other than "just

   get

 used to it"? An octave string shouldn't be a good idea because it

   would

 confuse voices.

 Hoping for some suggestions,

 Jurgen

 --

 "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."

 JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi

 To get on or off this list see list information at

 [2][3][4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.
 dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29
 SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpK
 ZONBRt90E=xnhCkwbBgHdYf33DpfBUO_UeqGbl6MqPg1_j4GX8JNE=PNYi6Z7KVm
 wcKsOx-7yeVZ5EXhB-nxAtO7JXhe0U8-Y=

   --
 References
   1. mailto:[4][5]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com
   2.
   [5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
   uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
   R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=
   xnhCkwbBgHdYf33DpfBUO_UeqGbl6MqPg1_j4GX8JNE=PNYi6Z7KVmwcKsOx-7yeVZ5EX
   hB-nxAtO7JXhe0U8-Y=
 --
   References
 1.
   [7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__yho.com_footer0
   =DwIFaQ

[LUTE] Re: Renaissance/Medieval Fairs

[John Mardinly]

   I have been to a few "Renaissance" festivals in the United States, and
   seriously, did you think that the country that elected donald trump
   really has enough people interested in Renaissance music to support
   these fairs? What I saw was mostly people getting dressed up in pirate
   costumes and indulging in lots of eating (turkey legs are popular)
   drinking beer, and as much bawdiness and depravity as possible.


   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Sep 26, 2019, at 2:36 PM, Frank A. Gerbode, M.D.
   <[1]sa...@gerbode.net> wrote:

   I went to one of the first Renaissance fairs in the SF Bay Area,
   sometime in the late 70's.
   I brought my Harwood lute and settled myself by the side of the path to
   play, but I doubt anyone could really hear me, as it was outside and
   noisy. Still, I suppose the visual was good...
   --Sarge
   On 9/26/2019 13:44, Christopher Wilke wrote:

One of those "Ye Olde Renaissance Fayres" once made me some easy
 money.
I attended with a friend who was a classical guitarist. I was
 going
just for the fun of it with no expectation of historical
 accuracy. My
friend said, "I'll bet YOU'RE super excited to be here." I asked
 why he
thought I'd be so especially enthusiastic about the event.
 "Because
you'll get your fill of lutes," he replied. I said I'd be
 surprised to
see a single lute. He bet me $50 we would. I had a real nice
 dinner
that night.
Chris
[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Thursday, September 26, 2019, 10:00 AM, Braig, Eugene
<[2]brai...@osu.edu> wrote:
"Lucky America: having looked through musical performances at
Renaissance Fairs, we see many ensembles actually performing
appropriate songs and dances."
This may be a bit too generous.  Some make/made real efforts (for
example, spanning two or three decades, Ohio State University
 [OSU]
held a "Renaissance Faire" that strove to book performers of 16th
 and
17th music).  However, most feature performers in renaissance
 garb,
badly aping modern cockney accents, and strumming new songs in
imitation of Irish drinking tunes on modern steel-string guitars.
  Even
OSU's went the "fantasy" route around a decade or two ago
 andâafter a
total run of 45 yearsâfinally ceased to exist by 2019.
In OSU's ren-faire glory days, I approached a friend who
 specialized in
English lute music.  I wanted to split a set with her playing
Elizabethan lute pieces (she has a lovely 7-course Watanabe) and
 me
playing vihuela music on, of all things, vihuela (pre-Chambure
discovery, mine is based on iconography) to highlight the
 "armada"
conflict.  It never came together, and I have thus never played
 such a
"faire."  Not owning a period costume, I don't really have the
incentive any longer.
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: [2][3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
<[3][4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> On Behalf Of
 Tristan von
Neumann
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:30 AM
To: [4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Renaissance/Medieval Fairs
So here's something different for a change.
Why is it that in the US there are "Renfairs", all dedicated to
 mainly
the 16th century (and some really stretching it by allowing some
fantasy elements), while in Germany we only have
 "Mittelaltermärkte"
(Medieval Fairs).
What I don't like about the Medieval Fairs in Germany (though
 some are
quite good and only allow painstakingly recreated authentic
 stuff), is
the music.
Since we don't know much about instrumental music of the Middle
 Ages,
many people take this as an excuse to brutally treat the crowd
 with
Techno-like monster beats by huge drums and ear-shattering
 bagpiping.
I have very rarely heard "real" Medival Music apart from some
 Walter
von der Vogelweide favourites and the occasional Oswald von
Wolkenstein.
Even the popular "Estampies" are rarely heard, and we rarely get
 even
simplified versions of tunes from British Library Add. 29987.
If you're not blasted by bagpipes, there will be bawdy songs in
pseudo-medieval folk style, of course played on totally
 inappropriate
instruments.
While I think I would love to take my lute to such an event, I
 would be
totally anachronistic, and I do not want to join the "Medieval&

[LUTE] Re: RH folk style

[John Mardinly]

   Paul Odette was inspired by Julian Bream. One played thumb out, the
   other played thumb under. Both got excellent results. That is what
   matters the most.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Aug 1, 2019, at 1:03 PM, Mathias Rösel
   <[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:

 Well, I've been a member on the list as well. As it seems to me, all
 authors after 1600 who deal with this subject recommend thumb out.
 Vallet even ridicules thumb in.
 We'll never know what player actually did, if they complied with the
 recommendations. Today, research on strings and soundboards points
   into
 the same direction: thumb out.
 Everybody is free, if course, to do what they like best. Everybody
   has
 been so, ever since. I don't care. And I don't want to listen to
 players who play the baroque lute thumb in, any more.
 my two cents. just an ordinary member
 Mathias
   __
 Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
 --- Original-Nachricht ---
 Von: G. C.
 Betreff: [LUTE] Re: RH folk style
 Datum: 01.08.2019, 21:46 Uhr
 An: Lutelist
 Eloquently said Ron, as always!
 G.
 tor. 1. aug. 2019 kl. 21.28 skrev Ron Andrico
 <[1][2][2]praelu...@hotmail.com>:
 Relax, Howard. No one is on trial here. Perhaps anathema is a
 less
 apt choice to describe alternatives to a right-hand position for
 playing post-1600 repertory on proper lutes. But for all
 intents and
 purposes, thumb-under technique is certainly not an historically
 appropriate right-hand position for what we call baroque lute.
 That is
 not to say it was never used, but Besard (Dowland) and Vallet,
 said it
 in print, and there are countless pictorial representations from
 the
 period that strongly suggest the right-hand thumb was very, very
 much
 out.
 This is a difficult truth to countenance for all those notable
 soldiers
 of the famous 1970s thumb-under brigade, who fought long and
 loudly to
 distinguish themselves from lute-dabbling classical guitarists
 (even to
 the point of eschewing the wearing of the ceremonial black
 turtleneck),
 but it is a truth nonetheless. I'll say it here: Based upon the
 body
 of surviving evidence from the period, lutes with diapasons
 designed to
 be used for post-1600 music were historically intended to be
 played
 with the right-hand thumb out, not under.
 RA
 __
 From: [2][3][3]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[3][4][4]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf of howard
 posner
 <[4][5][5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
 Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 5:18 PM
 To: Lutelist <[5][6][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: RH folk style
 I'm not aware of anyone on this stating categorically that
 thumb-in is
 anathema on the d-minor lute. But I could easily have missed
 it, or
 deleted it and forgotten about it. I tend not to waste time
 dealing
 with categorical statements about how every player in history
 played
 the same way. And if, by chance, I've ever written anything here
 in the
 last 25 years that sounds like a categorical statement about the
 way
 every player, ever, played the same way, chalk it up to sloppy
 writing
 (or thinking), delete it, and forget about it.

 On Aug 1, 2019, at 9:23 AM, G. C. <[6][7][7]kalei...@gmail.com>

 wrote:

 People on this list f. ex.?

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][7][8][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.c
   s.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29S
   RQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONB
   Rt90E�CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_
   Uo5qnqkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ=
 --
 References
 1.
   [8][9][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
   tmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
   9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
   �CKS_DTZQM4sMP5uaAi0GGSD5RKz2lUpES6ErWCWWI=emq2YdDnb5SaB3JQmD_Uo5qn
   qkbKElw9QFDVaMbJQJQ=
 --
 References
 1. mailto:[10][10]praelu...@hotmail.com
 2. mailto:[11][11]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 3. mailto:[12][12]lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 4. mailto:[13][13]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
 5. mailto:[14][14]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 6. mailto:[15][15]kalei...@gmail.com
 7.
   [16][16]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
   mouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9
   vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6jo

[LUTE] Re: Siena Manuscript No. 17 - Ricercar

[John Mardinly]

   My teenage daughter says all classical music sounds the same. I tell
   her all pop music sounds the same. Who is right?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

 On Jul 13, 2019, at 8:19 AM, Tristan von Neumann
 <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 I guess period documentation is out of the question for the moment.
 Though I find it very odd that the best match can be found in the
 music
 of Giovanni Gabrieli.
 His music or the process of composition is not really explained with
 the
 theorists.
 That is why one had to study with him personally. How he really
 taught
 his methods remains a mystery.
 But obviously, this sparked whole new schools all over Europe.
 The question is: did musicians get information about music in India,
 how
 was it transferred?
 I would love to dig into the archives of Venice, Florence etc.
 concerning trade agreements, embassies etc.
 I have no funds, I'll leave it to people compelled by the musical
 evidence.
 Indian Music is also taught only to disciples. This is still the
 case
 today, and the music has been preserved for 500 years and more.
 (Dagar family schools for example)
 We have the rare opportunity to study this music and learn something
 about Early Music this way, for example how Musica Ficta rules are
 established, or general things like tempi and rhythm.
 Even if it just heightens the senses and awareness of rhythmic
 cycles
 and hidden ostinato models.
 From 1600 onwards, it is much easier to find clear matches with
 Indian
 music. Logically this means something has changed *towards* it.
 The music is almost always of Venetian School heritage (Valentini,
 Bertali etc.), basically what one finds in Partiturbuch Ludwig and
 similar collections.
 I recently found someone from South India who is very good at
 suggesting
 Ragas for European Music.
 Some pieces just ring the bell instantly, for example this one:
 [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.
 com_watch-3Fv-3DfLnp-2D1lgc44=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gy
 cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Ijk
 ZZqW7jnnsWIdAvEMkLVl2zyq3-1pJFfX63F5N4e8=gyL6FGO2ToegrkSDCJjjGi4J3
 BM9j_oZzM_7UP1sK9E=
 Raga Keeravani/Kirwani - a model set in the harmonic minor scale.
 But it
 is not the scale, but special phrases that make a Raga.
 In the Sonata you can hear quasi-glissandi (though written as
 discrete
 chromatic notes), which the musicians happily accept.
 It is not "sounds similar to Kirwani", it really is the exact
 structure
 and approach of the notes. Valentini gives it every polyphonic
 treatment
 possible within the boundaries of the model.
 When someone from India tells me that this is an exact and correct
 representation of the Raga, I'm inclined to believe him.
 Anyway, I will dig deeper and maybe find more convincing examples.
 On 13.07.19 15:32, Braig, Eugene wrote:

 Exactly, which is exactly why these "interesting new discoveries"
 aren't necessarily.  No musician generates music without any
 reference to other music.  Audible similarities are to be expected,
 especially given the universal nature of physical acoustics.  Now,
 finding a collection of ca. 1600 Sikh music in an old Venetian
 library, that *would* be interesting.
 I intend no offense, but I don't see why these similarities—even if
 granted to be strong—constitute exciting discoveries.  . . . yet
 again.  Without explicit period documentation, these assertions read
 to me as a form of "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" (perhaps specifically
 ignoring a common cause) or fallacious faulty generalization.
 Eugene
 -Original Message-
 From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  On
 Behalf Of Tristan von Neumann
 Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2019 8:12 AM
 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Siena Manuscript No. 17 - Ricercar
 This is no coincidence.
 The musicians have classical education. Rite of Spring is the
 Pachelbel Canon of the 20th century and every rock musician has
 probably heard and loved it.
 Also this one lifted from Bruckner's 5th:
 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com
 _watch-3Fv-3D0J2QdDbelmY=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2
 jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=IjkZZqW7
 jnnsWIdAvEMkLVl2zyq3-1pJFfX63F5N4e8=XXmite3gqITctTXnzOo9FpLQoDkYFZ
 Kt0MS4sW6WhD4=
 On 13.07.19 12:37, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.classicfm.c
 om_discover-2Dmusic_queen-2Dwe-2Dare-2Dchampions-2Drite-2Do=DwIFaQ
 =l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1f
 tlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=IjkZZ

[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room

[John Mardinly]

   I certainly neglected to mention banjos, which have no soundboard
   bracing, and are LOUD, and the 8 string guitar of Paul Galbraith, made
   by David Rubio, which has a tailpiece to hold the strings (I have no
   idea what the internal bracing of that guitar is, but  Paul Galbraith
   states very clearly that increasing volume was a high priority in the
   project). The point is that bracing, whether ladder or fan, that gives
   strength to the top so that it does not come apart due to string
   tension, suppresses vibration and thus volume and sustain. So the
   bracing could be minimized if the bridge/top did not need to cary the
   tension of the strings.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Jun 30, 2019, at 8:09 AM, ido7 <[1]ishdai...@gmail.com> wrote:

 I don't think the main reason is the lack of frets. Fretless acoustic
 guitars, nylon strings or not, are both fretless and plucked and
   their
 sound is decent, both with regards to tone and sustain.
 On Sun, 30 Jun 2019, 16:59 Miles Dempster,
 <[1][2]miles.demps...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Violins, violas etc. don't have frets.   When plucked (rather than
   bowed) the string vibration is dampened by the soft fingertip at
   the
   stopped end. I don't think that the sustain depends significantly
   on
   how the bridge connects to the soundboard.
   Miles

 On Jun 30, 2019, at 9:01 AM, Edward Mast

   <[2][3]nedma...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 A good question, Dr. Mardinly.   What one notices, though, is that

   when violins, violas, cellos and string basses have their strings
   plucked rather than bowed, the sustain of the note is short (string
   basses doing by far the best, and violins doing the worst with
   pizzicato - plucked notes).   It thus seems to me that the method
   of
   having the strings stretched over a non-fixed bridge as they are
   for
   the bowed instruments, works very well for transmitting the
   vibrations of the strings to the instrument when they are bowed,
   and
   not so well at all when they're plucked.   The fixed bridges with
   strings attached as on guitars, lutes, etc. seems to be the best
   way
   of transmitting the vibrations to the instrument when the strings
   are plucked, rather than bowed.

 A luthier's explanation of this would be welcome.
 Ned

 On Jun 29, 2019, at 3:50 PM, John Mardinly

   <[3][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:

 Spot on explanation of what physics does to sound boards. The big

   question that I have never had answered is why do plucked string
   instruments have the string tension carried by the soundboard
   itself, instead of having the string tension carried by the body of
   the instrument via a tailpiece the way violins, violas, cellos and
   string basses do?

 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
 tmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQ
 usp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZON
 BRt90E=eqcReZc_h0V-oNUhDyGAxeTGNr5XaMO2xL6rAqw4bBk=E4t5dhShK6Htw
 vMulobNgvr1D1t4_18SiOUonYqrSUE=

 --
   References
 1. [6]mailto:miles.demps...@gmail.com
 2. [7]mailto:nedma...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
 3. [8]mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
 4.
   [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=eqc
   ReZc_h0V-oNUhDyGAxeTGNr5XaMO2xL6rAqw4bBk=E4t5dhShK6HtwvMulobNgvr1D1t4
   _18SiOUonYqrSUE=

   --

References

   1. mailto:ishdai...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:miles.demps...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:nedma...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=eqcReZc_h0V-oNUhDyGAxeTGNr5XaMO2xL6rAqw4bBk=E4t5dhShK6HtwvMulobNgvr1D1t4_18SiOUonYqrSUE=
   6. mailto:miles.demps...@gmail.com
   7. mailto:nedma...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   9. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=eqcReZc_h0V-oNUhDyGAxeTGNr5XaMO2xL6rAqw4bBk=E4t5dhShK6HtwvMulobNgvr1D1t4_18SiOUonYqrSUE=

[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room

[John Mardinly]

Spot on explanation of what physics does to sound boards. The big question that 
I have never had answered is why do plucked string instruments have the string 
tension carried by the soundboard itself, instead of having the string tension 
carried by the body of the instrument via a tailpiece the way violins, violas, 
cellos and string basses do?

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.





> On Jun 29, 2019, at 7:30 AM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately things don't work that way. Generally over time the tension of 
> the strings pulls the bridge towards the neck so that its front edge sinks 
> and this is what causes the bulge in the soundboard you refer to. It's true 
> that if you have no dishing, this immediately makes the lute virtually 
> unplayable (which is another reason I like 6 mm or so of dishing). I don't 
> think there is any evidence (or physical explanation I can think of) to 
> suggest that a flat soundboard is going to be more subject to this phenomenon 
> than one with dishing, it's just that the latter has more leeway. Different 
> soundboards seem to react in different ways. I have a lute which is over 20 
> years old which has virtually no sign of the bridge sinking whereas a more 
> recent lute might show signs of a sinking bridge within a very short period 
> of time. I suspect that very thin soundboards are more prone to the problem.
> 
> Some late baroque lutes had convex bars between the rose and the bridge which 
> might have been intended to try to limit the phenomenon of the bridge sinking 
> over time. The corresponding bridges would have been convex.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
> Le 29 juin 2019 à 15:10, r.turov...@gmail.com a écrit :
> 
>> Physics, I suppose!)) 
>> The pull of the strings deepens the scoop, rather then lifting the bridge.
>> 
>> The non-concave soundboard also carries a large risk of becoming convex, and 
>> I’ve seen a few lutes with a nasty bulge between the bridge and the rose.
>> RT 
>> 
>> 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__turovsky.org=DwIF-g=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=TxTHlNx7S7F0d7aH7twn3ZPr_Z_A5ejno6SMAbNAMTg=5qStC4kl5hdO4kHFK-vbRQrSScNMXUWkysplkRBmIXM=
>>  
>> Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
>> 
>>> On Jun 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Matthew Daillie  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What is the reasoning behind that claim?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Le 29 juin 2019 à 12:37, r.turov...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>> The scoop keeps the action stable, and that’s its main function.
>>>> An axe without the scoop is a disaster to be avoided.
>>>> RT 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIF-g=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=TxTHlNx7S7F0d7aH7twn3ZPr_Z_A5ejno6SMAbNAMTg=5ns_CI1pOIe-Yf6KhW_c5w3E2emmdujqVoFxPGAVG6g=
>>>  
>> 
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: David Gilmore [guitar] Collection being sold

[John Mardinly]

   Wow! That virtual tour is phenomenal!

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Jun 29, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Peter Martin <[1]peter.l...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 $21 million total sale value!
 [1][2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.christ
   ies.com_the-2Ddavid-2Dgilmour-2Dguitar-2D28021.aspx-3Fsaleti=DwIBAg
   =l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxM
   mQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=pdC
   7hJZIpgTorO2x9h84GJVko6OaNbyrN4TBjMyfXeA=
 tle=
 P
 On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 15:59, Arthur Ness
 <[2][3]arthurjn...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
  Here's the link to the instruments (127 in total).   Some
   amazing
  estimated sales prices.
   [3][4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.chri
   sties.com_salelanding_index.aspx-3Fintsaleid-28021-26li=DwIBAg=l45A
   xH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9
   N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=cPNHk1pe
   HxKN-vr8LfxHjMihITztodJvj0gOnAwJYeI=
   d=1
   letitle==all=paging
  AJN
  --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.da
   rtmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQus
   p9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90
   E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=cq8lokjt77kppRyKMsD1A
   zLhdKaJgxc-HOYAcRZKugo=
 --
   References
 1.
   [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.christies.c
   om_the-2Ddavid-2Dgilmour-2Dguitar-2D28021.aspx-3Fsaletitle-3D=DwIBAg&
   c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx
   MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=rw
   pddMaoVI7L9HQqWKQkBmiEobvoVT3Gzb6wgTHNupk=
 2. [7]mailto:arthurjn...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 3.
   [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.christies.c
   om_salelanding_index.aspx-3Fintsaleid-28021-26lid-3D1-26sa=DwIBAg=l
   45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQ
   Pq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=xZx7o
   2MCE-wMgReCf68SPi-rRwMo8dALu6AQO47LC1I=
 4.
   [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4r
   Tefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=cq8lokjt77kppRyKMsD1AzLhdKaJ
   gxc-HOYAcRZKugo=

   --

References

   1. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.christies.com_the-2Ddavid-2Dgilmour-2Dguitar-2D28021.aspx-3Fsaleti=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=pdC7hJZIpgTorO2x9h84GJVko6OaNbyrN4TBjMyfXeA=
   3. mailto:arthurjn...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.christies.com_salelanding_index.aspx-3Fintsaleid-28021-26li=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=cPNHk1peHxKN-vr8LfxHjMihITztodJvj0gOnAwJYeI=
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=cq8lokjt77kppRyKMsD1AzLhdKaJgxc-HOYAcRZKugo=
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.christies.com_the-2Ddavid-2Dgilmour-2Dguitar-2D28021.aspx-3Fsaletitle-3D=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=rwpddMaoVI7L9HQqWKQkBmiEobvoVT3Gzb6wgTHNupk=
   7. mailto:arthurjn...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.christies.com_salelanding_index.aspx-3Fintsaleid-28021-26lid-3D1-26sa=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=xZx7o2MCE-wMgReCf68SPi-rRwMo8dALu6AQO47LC1I=
   9. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=l4rTefxj1lcxKA5S9Y9SVSFvwff_c3-EmD-YxAPiL74=cq8lokjt77kppRyKMsD1AzLhdKaJgxc-HOYAcRZKugo=

[LUTE] Re: how about changing the subject too!

[John Mardinly]

   On all my computers, the most recent part of the email is visible at
   the top. If there're 10 pages of older threads, they don't show unless
   I want to see them, and I have to deliberately scroll down. So what is
   the fuss?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Jun 28, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Wayne <[1]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

   While we are ranting about whether to crop or not, how about
   paying attention to, and changing, the Subject !!
   Ed changed the topic from Bream to long messages, but
   didn't change the subject line.  Leonard tried desperately
   to change the Subject: line but David quickly brought it
   back to what was no longer being discussed.
   I am sure Julian Bream, being very attentive to detail,
   would change the Subject: line *and* edit his replies!
   Wayne
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=1Rs
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   1L15eYhrgUXiJZ4=

References

   1. mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=1RsKxeeD_8jhnEMRkT6D-Q2bVi9A8SRUuAT7LVkGwvE=GxEUgvSc-L19EmH3wgsEghH4M0wu1L15eYhrgUXiJZ4=

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[John Mardinly]

The initials “RM” are engraved on the top at the end of the fingerboard.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


> On Jun 25, 2019, at 3:06 PM, Edward Martin  wrote:
> 
> Thank you Jo. I do not think I need to investigate further as this is 
> probably made by them. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 4:58 PM,  
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Edward,
>> 
>> there are many Meinl - one ‎came from a region in Saxonia where many 
>> instrument builders were working into what was then West Germany and opened 
>> the firm Meinl & Lauber which ist still existing. No plucked strings though, 
>> but in the former GDR lutes of the "intermediary" type where built by 
>> Workshops run by the socialist state, sometimes under the name of former 
>> owners, sometimes using the names just as labels. Your lute will have come 
>> from one of these shops. I am not sure how production was run there but I 
>> suspect that if your lute was built by an individual builder (as opposed to 
>> being assembled by a group where one did bending the ribs, one glueing them 
>> together a.s.o.) his name would not have been Meinl. You might learn more by 
>> asking the stuff of the Musikinstrumentenmuseum Markneukirchen.
>> 
>> Best
>> Jo the Lone Luter
>> 
>> Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
>>  Originalnachricht  
>> Von: Edward Martin
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Juni 2019 23:11
>> An: Christopher Stetson
>> Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> Cc: Lute List
>> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
>> 
>> 
>> Speaking of that very lute, I recall it was made by “Meinl”. Does anyone 
>> know anything about Meinl?  Was the instrument constructed by an individual 
>> builder of that name, or was Meinl the name of a company?
>> 
>> I am curious. I bought that lute 42-43 years ago, and it was built by an 
>> individual, is Meinl still alive?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jun 25, 2019, at 12:30 PM, Christopher Stetson 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sellers often don't pay much attention to such matters, and many seem
>>> to think that "rosewood" gets more views.   Or they might have just
>>> copied it from a Roosebeck listing.
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 11:47 AM Daniel Heiman
>>> <[1]heiman.dan...@juno.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Interesting that it is described as rosewood, when it looks an awful
>>>   lot
>>>   like curly maple, and the description says 16 strings for a
>>>   conventionally
>>>   strung 8-course Renaissance lute with 15 strings total.
>>>   Daniel
>>>   -Original Message-
>>>   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>   [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
>>>   Of Edward Martin
>>>   Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 11:08 PM
>>>   To: Christopher Stetson <[4]christophertstet...@gmail.com>
>>>   Cc: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
>>>  Christopher and all,
>>>  Thanks for putting that e-bay link for the old Bream style lute.
>>>  I
>>>  looked at the photos, and the instrument looked somewhat
>>>   familiar.
>>>  Low and behold, I saw a familiar name on the case - Edward A.
>>>   Martin!
>>>  That was my first lute,I purchased it on consignment back in
>>>   about
>>>  1976 from a guitar shop in Minneapolis, the Podium!I recall
>>>   selling
>>>  it to someone, and I see it is still around!How interesting!
>>>  It
>>>  was made by someone by the name Meinl from (at the time) East
>>>   Germany.
>>>  Thanks, a nice trip down memory lane!!
>>>  ed
>>>  On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:39 PM Christopher Stetson
>>>  <[1][6]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   Hello, all. So far I've been lurking on this interesting
>>>topic. As
>>>   a lutenist of "that generation" I, too, was inspired by
>>>   Bream,
>>>along
>>>   with Schaeffer, Ragossnig, and Gerwig. I remember
>>>   talking with
>>>my
>>>   friend who is now a respected medieval lutenist and teacher,
>>>probably
>>>   around 1975. He said, "I know it's fashionable to
>>>   pooh-pooh
>>>Julian
>>>   Bream's playing style

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[John Mardinly]

   I have always liked what Vladimir Horowitz said of practice: "If I miss
   a day, I can tell. If I miss two days, my wife can tell. If I miss 3
   days, everyone can tell."

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Jun 23, 2019, at 4:43 AM, Roland Hayes
   <[1]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org> wrote:

 When asked why he practiced three hours a day at age 85 Pablo Casals
 said "because I think I am getting better"
 Get [1]Outlook for Android
   __
 From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
 of Leonard Williams <[4]arc...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2019 7:30:40 AM
 To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
Doctors and lawyers practice because they know what they're doing;
   I
practice because I don't. (after 40 years, but you're way ahead of
 me ,
Martin!)
Leonard Williams
-Original Message-
From: Alain Veylit <[6]al...@musickshandmade.com>
To: Lute List <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Sun, Jun 23, 2019 3:23 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
Isn't that what keeps it interesting though?
On 6/22/19 1:50 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:

 This reminds me that even after 40 years I'm still hardly

 beginning
to

 understand how to do this.

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   [2][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
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   d=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6jo
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   F-fk=4WMd2BsdyovyP1ln75LmAEAxV9CUr3hciyABO7CUZt0=
 2.
   [12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
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   Wk1yTHA3g4oGquvA=

References

   1. mailto:rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:arc...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   7. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=iSHc9T6NAYlPSaJ_FUpst7DZjJ64Ozramk8vNhmF-fk=lQEGcZd5K4u6dRSlBMTHc8kU9pVWk1yTHA3g4oGquvA=
   9. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=iSHc9T6NAYlPSaJ_FUpst7DZjJ64Ozramk8vNhmF-fk=lQEGcZd5K4u6dRSlBMTHc8kU9pVWk1yTHA3g4oGquvA=
  10. mailto:i...@legalaidbuffalo.org
  11. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=iSHc9T6NAYlPSaJ_FUpst7DZjJ64Ozramk8vNhmF-fk=4WMd2BsdyovyP1ln75LmAEAxV9CUr3hciyABO7CUZt0=
  12. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=iSHc9T6NAYlPSaJ_FUpst7DZjJ64Ozramk8vNhmF-fk=lQEGcZd5K4u6dRSlBMTHc8kU9pVWk1yTHA3g4oGquvA=

[LUTE] Re: Instrument Buzz

[John Mardinly]

   Edward;

   My 1970 Rubio developed a terrible rattle internally due to detached
   bracing. Guitars routinely have bracing repaired through the sound
   hole, but lutes require removing the top. Major surgery, but it was
   done successfully on my lute. Good luck. My repair was done by Mel Wong
   in San Francisco.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Jun 6, 2019, at 7:05 PM, Edward C. Yong <[1]edward.y...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Hi Daniel,
   The buzz has always been there as long as I've had the instrument.
   I've noticed the maker didn't remove the paper stencil(?) after carving
   out the rosette and closing the instrument, so the paper is still glued
   to the underside of the rosette. I'm wondering if that might be
   contributing to the buzz. Is it common for makers to keep that paper
   stencil/pattern on the instrument?
   Best,
   Edward

 On 21 May 2019, at 7:52 AM, Daniel Heiman
 <[2]heiman.dan...@juno.com> wrote:
 Edward:
 When did you start to notice the buzz?
 Was it always present as long as you have owned the instrument?
 Did it appear suddenly out of nowhere?
 Have you changed a string lately, and that is when the buzz started?
 Daniel
 -Original Message-
 From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie
 Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 12:22 PM
 To: Edward C. Yong <[5]edward.y...@gmail.com>
 Cc: Lute List <[6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Instrument Buzz
 Sounds like it could be a loose bar or maybe an issue with the rose.
 Try holding the instrument with your fingers on the underside and
 with your thumb go round the edge of the soundboard applying a
 LITTLE pressure to see whether there are any noises of the
 soundboard moving against a bar (like a little click probably). You
 can also tap lightly on different areas of the top with the tip of
 your middle finger to see if there are any unwelcome noises.
 Obviously do this as gently as possible.
 Have you checked on the relative humidity? If you have a concert
 coming up and you think there is a loose bar, make sure the relative
 humidity is at least 50% (but no more than 65%) and this might
 resolve the issue temporarily.
 Best,
 Matthew

 On May 20, 2019, at 18:01, "Edward C. Yong"
 <[7]edward.y...@gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi everyone,
 A bit of buzz is driving me crazy. I have a renaissance guitar and
 there's a buzz that starts with the plucked note and dies down quite
 quickly.
 I've checked the bridge for any loose bits of string - nothing.
 I've checked the pegbox/peghead for loose buzzy strings - nothing.
 No possibility of frets being too high and buzzing, as the buzzing
 happens at all notes at all positions.
 I'm hoping it's not something beneath the soundboard that's loose
 and causing the buzz.
 It doesn't buzz when the instrument is flat, with the rose facing
 up. It buzzes when the instrument is in a playing position - with
 the rose facing sideways. It buzzes with the rose facing down.
 I'm on the verge of having this sent to the nearest luthier, but
 have
 a performance coming up. I just hope the audience won't be able to
 hear the subtle buzz, as we're not being amplified…
 Best,
 Edward
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=ygKsLc2OUpQjhhRUgTCOR5Grvb2h2JLCNWSfi5Lok3k=Mzh2XPos7rE0Tjjy
 iKx0rRkX03f0IwqU2Mxp8MQDWnA=

References

   1. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
   6. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
   8. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ygKsLc2OUpQjhhRUgTCOR5Grvb2h2JLCNWSfi5Lok3k=Mzh2XPos7rE0TjjyiKx0rRkX03f0IwqU2Mxp8MQDWnA=

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[John Mardinly]

   Franz;

   Bream was the inspiration for me as well. He has described that he
   found Dolmetsch lutes totally unsatisfactory due to low tension strings
   and a lack of ‘response'. His Goff lute was built by a harpsichord
   maker from x-rays of a lute found in a museum, but he specified
   numerous modifications: nylon strings with a tension comparable to what
   his guitar was like, a saddle in the bridge and metal frets. Later, the
   concept was refined by David Rubio (650mm scale, same as most guitars).
   In 1970 I bought a Rubio lute, and as a guitarist who had studied the
   lute repertoire and tablature with Jerry Williard, I adapted to it
   fairly easily, with minor changes to nail length and shape. However,
   nobody makes lutes like this anymore, so if you really want the Bream
   sound (which IS a great sound), try to find a Rubio lute on the used
   instrument market or find a luthier that will custom make one for you.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:49 AM, Franz Mechsner <[1]franz.mechs...@gmx.de>
   wrote:

 Thank you so much, Ron.
 Apart from my really deep admiration for Bream, I asked a very simple
 question: How did he get the marvellous sound and colors from a lute
 with his fingernails? Of course, some of the recordings sound
   somewhat
 sharp (though full of life), but some with a sound whose beauty
   brings
 me to tears (almost).
 When I myself try to play my lute with fingernails, the
 instrument answers with catastrophic screams: "No no, please stop
   this
 bad treatment of my delicate personality!".
 Apart from that all, sound production, colors, fine expression,
 atmosphere and sentiment on any instrument seems to me the most
 profound question you can ask about making music, rather than an all
 too naive stupid question of a beginner who - upon asking
 such questions - can easily be eaten for breakfeast by the guys 50
 years in the profession (or matter, in the case of lute).
 I actually woke up to the question with a piano teacher who promised
   to
 "connect you with the instrument" according to a method developed in
 the 1920th by a genial piano teacher called Elisabeth Caland. Her
 emphasis and focus was on back muscles, body centre and the like.
 Sounds good (I study Feldenkrais), but I wanted to know. I booked
 lessons with him, which were extremely eye- (or body-) opening. After
 more than half a year, I could clearliy realize that he has to teach
 something extremely important, clever and deep (and completely
 unexpected!) about sound production, but am still struggling how his
 marvellous sound is finanlly achieved. So the main lesson for me was:
 sound production is not at all a simple matter, and morover, not at
   all
 simple to teach and learn.
 My strong suspicion is, that there are analogous  secrets regarding
 sound and color on the lute and guitar I never came across. In this
 connection, I ask: What did Julian Bream find out about it (on lute
   and
 guitar) by teaching himself???
 My other suspicion, unfortunately fueled by my exciting experience
   with
 the mentioned extraordinary piano teacher, is that most musicians -
   not
 only pianists, but maybe even lutenists... :-) - have no idea how to
 achieve the best sound to move their own and other people's souls.
   Some
 players may be a natural talents, playing by following their ear,
 who don't know what they do with their body and instrument (this kind
 of people say: Julian Bream is good because he is excellent...), but
 some - and these are interesting for the rest of us - who are able to
 teach and tell.
 I am looking for wonderful touching sound, to improve in any way I am
 able to, pieces don't need to be complicated - is there anybody out
 there who would be ready to communicate off-list with me on the
 issue???
 Best regards, and I will not disturb you anymore with stupid
   questions
 Franz
 Dr. Franz Mechsner
 Zum Kirschberg 40
 D-14806 Belzig OT Borne
 +49(0)33841 441362
 [2]franz.mechs...@gmx.de
 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Juni 2019 um 17:09 Uhr
 Von: "Ron Andrico" <[3]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 An: "Gary Boye" <[4]boy...@appstate.edu>, "Edward C. Yong"
 <[5]edward.y...@gmail.com>
 Cc: "Jurgen Frenz" <[6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com>, "Lute
   List"
 <[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
 I feel I must add a word of support for Julian Bream and his many
 contributions to the current lute revival.
 As a 20th-century pioneering concert artist, Julian Bream first and
 foremost raised the lute from a quaint closet instrument, best suited
 to hi

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[John Mardinly]

   Bream was the primary inspiration for Paul O'Dette, as has been
   documented in many O'Dette interviews.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Jun 19, 2019, at 12:34 PM, Luke Emmet
   <[1]luke.em...@orlando-lutes.com> wrote:

   Julian Bream was an inspiration to so many people to take up the lute
   or to fall in love with it. I count myself among them.
   How much visibility would our instrument have had without his
   performances and recordings back in the day?
   Yes his technique is obviously strongly guitar influenced, and his lute
   a compromise to meet his technique. But to me, his musical insights,
   particularly into Dowland, were second to none for many years. I'm
   still to this day prepared to go a long way to listen beyond the sound
   of his fingernails to be taken into his musical vision of what was
   latent in the music itself and could be brought forward for us to
   marvel at.
   Best wishes
   - Luke
   On 19-Jun-2019 16:46, Braig, Eugene wrote:

 Hear, hear.
 Eugene
 -Original Message-
 From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu<[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>  On
 Behalf Of Ron Andrico
 Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:09 AM
 To: Gary Boye<[4]boy...@appstate.edu>; Edward C.
 Yong<[5]edward.y...@gmail.com>
 Cc: Jurgen Frenz<[6]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com>; Lute
 List<[7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
I feel I must add a word of support for Julian Bream and his many
contributions to the current lute revival.
As a 20th-century pioneering concert artist, Julian Bream first
 and
foremost raised the lute from a quaint closet instrument, best
 suited
to historians and eccentrics, to an instrument capable of musical
expression that reached and communicated to modern audiences.
Yes, Julian Bream developed and employed his own characteristic
technique.  And yes, he used instruments that were modified from
historical models to suit his needs as a touring concert artist.
  But
it was through his musical chops that he exposed a broad audience
 to
the depth and the possibilities of old music for the lute.
Bream-bashing has been a popular sport among modern players who
 like to
dwell on what is now considered proper lute technique, but many
 of
these players for all intents and purposes dwell in glass houses.
  For
instance, I still see an absurd number of modern players (who
 really
should know better) using thumb-under technique on baroque lute
 and
theorbo.  This is patently unhistorical.  In fact, it is well
 known
that music from circa 1600 onward should be played with the thumb
 out.
While the lute world is populated by an abundance of opinionated
hobbyists, Julian Bream is a real musician, and probably still
 has
chops most lute players will never attain.  Let's give the man
 the
respect he deserves.
RA
  ___
 ___
From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu<[9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  on behalf
of Gary Boye<[10]boy...@appstate.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:23 AM
To: Edward C. Yong
Cc: Jurgen Frenz; Lute List
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
   Edward,
   Back in the '70s, there was a quip that "Julian Bream makes
 the lute
   sound like a guitar and the guitar sound like a lute." I think
 that
   came from guitarists who had no idea what the lute could sound
 like.
   He was pretty amazing in concert (on guitar, I didn't see him
 play
   lute), and quite a character off stage. In addition to "lute,"
 he
also
   played "vihuela" and "Baroque guitar" (quotes used
 intentionally!) .
.
   . Can't say I'd recommend his early music recordings to
 students
today
   though..
   Gary
   On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 5:39 AM Edward C. Yong
   <[1][11]edward.y...@gmail.com>  wrote:
 I have to agree. JB used his stardom to get the lute out
 there,
even
 if it was a Frankenlute with nothing lute about it apart
 from the
 shape.
 Would anyone have paid attention to his lute playing if it
 hadn't
 ridden on the back of his guitarist reputation? Probably
 not.
 I recognise that many here were introduced to the lute via
 JB's
 efforts, but my own experience was rather different. My
 first
 exposure to lute music was an LP of Julian Bream playing
 Dowland
in
 my school

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[John Mardinly]

Left hand.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.




> On Jun 21, 2019, at 1:04 PM, John Mardinly  wrote:
> 
> Several years ago, Bream injured the A finger of his last hand and can no 
> longer play. I saw a photo in a guitar magazine that showed a finger swollen 
> to twice the normal diameter. There was no mention of how the injury occurred.
> 
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Paul Overell  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 19/06/2019 23:18, Susan Price wrote:
>>>  I would like to point out that Julian Bream is still alive (born 1933).
>>>  He has always been my favorite guitarist. I often thought it was a real
>>>  pity that he never played baroque lute.  That woulda been amazing.
>> 
>> Julian Bream is also an honorary member of the (British) Lute Society,
>> where, some years ago, he gave lute master classes to some of the
>> members in front of an enthusiastic audience (standing room only).
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> -- 
>> Paul Overell
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=i6679wAJ8GNXT6L1_SDqv6tZLIkOlTomGTukYqDHzlY=D10EH96xcFJ2eVBlcUT7uFAXPP6jTkBmTOxb6R4I21U=
>>  
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[John Mardinly]

Several years ago, Bream injured the A finger of his last hand and can no 
longer play. I saw a photo in a guitar magazine that showed a finger swollen to 
twice the normal diameter. There was no mention of how the injury occurred.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.




> On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:49 AM, Paul Overell  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 19/06/2019 23:18, Susan Price wrote:
>>   I would like to point out that Julian Bream is still alive (born 1933).
>>   He has always been my favorite guitarist. I often thought it was a real
>>   pity that he never played baroque lute.  That woulda been amazing.
> 
> Julian Bream is also an honorary member of the (British) Lute Society,
> where, some years ago, he gave lute master classes to some of the
> members in front of an enthusiastic audience (standing room only).
> 
> Regards
> 
> -- 
> Paul Overell
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=i6679wAJ8GNXT6L1_SDqv6tZLIkOlTomGTukYqDHzlY=D10EH96xcFJ2eVBlcUT7uFAXPP6jTkBmTOxb6R4I21U=
>  

[LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute

[John Mardinly]

Well said! Thank you!

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist



> On Jun 19, 2019, at 8:09 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>   I feel I must add a word of support for Julian Bream and his many
>   contributions to the current lute revival.
> 
>   As a 20th-century pioneering concert artist, Julian Bream first and
>   foremost raised the lute from a quaint closet instrument, best suited
>   to historians and eccentrics, to an instrument capable of musical
>   expression that reached and communicated to modern audiences.
> 
>   Yes, Julian Bream developed and employed his own characteristic
>   technique.  And yes, he used instruments that were modified from
>   historical models to suit his needs as a touring concert artist.  But
>   it was through his musical chops that he exposed a broad audience to
>   the depth and the possibilities of old music for the lute.
> 
>   Bream-bashing has been a popular sport among modern players who like to
>   dwell on what is now considered proper lute technique, but many of
>   these players for all intents and purposes dwell in glass houses.  For
>   instance, I still see an absurd number of modern players (who really
>   should know better) using thumb-under technique on baroque lute and
>   theorbo.  This is patently unhistorical.  In fact, it is well known
>   that music from circa 1600 onward should be played with the thumb out.
> 
>   While the lute world is populated by an abundance of opinionated
>   hobbyists, Julian Bream is a real musician, and probably still has
>   chops most lute players will never attain.  Let's give the man the
>   respect he deserves.
> 
>   RA
> __
> 
>   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
>   of Gary Boye 
>   Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 11:23 AM
>   To: Edward C. Yong
>   Cc: Jurgen Frenz; Lute List
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Julian Bream on Lute
> 
>  Edward,
>  Back in the '70s, there was a quip that "Julian Bream makes the lute
>  sound like a guitar and the guitar sound like a lute." I think that
>  came from guitarists who had no idea what the lute could sound like.
>  He was pretty amazing in concert (on guitar, I didn't see him play
>  lute), and quite a character off stage. In addition to "lute," he
>   also
>  played "vihuela" and "Baroque guitar" (quotes used intentionally!) .
>   .
>  . Can't say I'd recommend his early music recordings to students
>   today
>  though..
>  Gary
>  On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 5:39 AM Edward C. Yong
>  <[1]edward.y...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I have to agree. JB used his stardom to get the lute out there,
>   even
>if it was a Frankenlute with nothing lute about it apart from the
>shape.
>Would anyone have paid attention to his lute playing if it hadn't
>ridden on the back of his guitarist reputation? Probably not.
>I recognise that many here were introduced to the lute via JB's
>efforts, but my own experience was rather different. My first
>exposure to lute music was an LP of Julian Bream playing Dowland
>   in
>my school library, and that put me off the lute - it sounded like
>   a
>classical guitar to me, so at 12, I didn't see the point. It
>   wasn't
>until a year later that I heard Paul O'Dette and Jakob Lindberg's
>   cd
>of Elizabethan lute duets and that changed my mind entirely - I
>wanted to play an instrument that sounded like theirs.
>While I have much respect for JB being a musician on the guitar
>   and
>an 'early adopter', I fear I find his tone on the lute to be thin
>and hard, or âmetallic sharp' as Mr Frenz calls it. It's difficult
>for me to look past the tone and appreciate JB's musicianship on
>   the
>lutewhen I find the tone unattractive - and this is my failing,
>   not
>JB's.
>Edward
>> On 19 Jun 2019, at 12:40 PM, Jurgen Frenz
><[2]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Julian Bream was a vital part (I believe) of the lute revival 50
>years ago by making the music public. On the downside of it he
>played guitar technique on it to the point of using singe strings
>   on
>both the high G and D courses - it allowed him to play apoyando on
>the lute which is a big no-no. Hence his lute playing doesn't
>   really
>sound like a lute. Also, at that time, it was common guitar
>technique to use sound differences to emphasize or mark formal
>sections by moving the rig

[LUTE] Re: How to improve lute performance

[John Mardinly]

Amazing. I was looking closely to see if any of them played with nails, and one 
guy played with GLOVES!

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


> On May 11, 2019, at 7:18 AM, Daniel Shoskes  wrote:
> 
> Never thought to use a bot, but gamers seem to have found the solution
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__kotaku.com_mordhau-2Dplayers-2Dare-2Dusing-2Dbots-2Dto-2Dplay-2Dthe-2Dlute-2Dbetter-2D1834681431=DwIDAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=IP3Z7QOY_oVUI6WxQ1n4vg7iJcrF4fbNXcHZoJCVtDw=Tqw_688xil0gX4-cFgaAeR1oqR1TkxsZh8QRfKMeGAs=
> 
> Danny
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIDAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=IP3Z7QOY_oVUI6WxQ1n4vg7iJcrF4fbNXcHZoJCVtDw=17KJRHGkSCmoqsbLSOealWxkmWbKN_VbQJs9LczXXmc=

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[John Mardinly]

My suspicion would be that the nails Sor heard were just not prepared well.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

> On May 8, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Antonio Corona  wrote:
> 
>   Sor's words:
>   Never in my life have I heard a guitarist whose playing was
>   supportable, if he played with the nails. The nails can produce but
>   very few gradations in the quality of the sound: the piano passages can
>   never be singing, nor the fortes sufficiently full. Their performance
>   is, to mine, what the harpsichord was in comparison to the
>   pianoforteâthe piano passages were always jingling, and, in the fortes,
>   the noise of the keys predominated over the sound of the wires. It is
>   necessary that the performance of Mr. Aguado should have so many
>   excellent qualities as it possesses, to excuse his employment of the
>   nails ; and he himself would have condemned the use of them if he had
>   not attained such a degree of agility, nor found himself beyond the
>   time of life in which we are able to contend against the bend of the
>   fingers acquired by a long habitude.
>   Best wishes,
>   Antonio
> __
> 
>   From: George Torres 
>   To: Roman Turovsky 
>   Cc: magnus andersson ; Martyn Hodgson
>   ; Lute List ; Monica
>   Hall 
>   Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:45
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>   Sor reportedly used a nail on his thumb, for special effect, after
>   meeting Aguado, who did play with nails.
>> On May 8, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
>   wrote:
>> 
>> Fernando Sor.
>> RT
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote:
>>>   Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo
>   player who
>>>   explicitly played without fingernails?
>>> 
>>>   [1]Skickat frÃÆÃ ¥n Yahoo Mail fÃÆÃ ¶r iPhone
>>> 
>>>   Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
>>>   <[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
>>> 
>>> Hear! hear!.
>>> 
>>> And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means
>   that De
>>> 
>>> Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths
>   start
>>> 
>>> Martyn
>>> 
>>> On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall
>>> 
>>> <[2][3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket
>   -
>>> 
>>> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
>>> 
>>> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was
>   given 500
>>> 
>>> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
>>> 
>>> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
>>> 
>>> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of
>   Savoy at
>>> 
>>> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>>> 
>>> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>>> 
>>> Monica
>>> 
>>>> On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
>>> 
>>> <[1][3][4]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>   Dear collective wisdom,
>>> 
>>>>   From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has
>   been
>>> 
>>> around
>>> 
>>>>   since  at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like
>   Piccinini,
>>> 
>>> Corbetta
>>> 
>>>>   (who we know had
>>> 
>>>>   to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and
>   still
>>>   pay
>>> 
>>> his
>>> 
>>>>   fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de
>   VisÃÆ Ã ©e
>>>   had
>>> 
>>> found
>>> 
>>>>   a way for them to get it to work without shredding and
>   tearing
>>> 
>>> their
>>> 
>>>>   strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>   "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly,
>   and
>>> 
>>> cleanly; In
>>> 
>>>>   the manner that all small touches of the string may be
>   schietto,
>>> 
>>> like
>>> 
>>>>   pearl[s]"
>>> 
>>>> 

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[John Mardinly]

   Very similar to what Segovia used, and certainly about the best there
   was mid-20th century, but no comparison to 1500 grit 3M silicon carbide
   papers.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On May 7, 2019, at 2:57 PM, M Del <[1]terli...@aol.com> wrote:

   My first guitar teacher Rolando Valdes-Blain taught his students to use
   finely crushed pumice stone and leather from a deer (it happened to be
   a piece from a hunter friend).Rolando was old enough to play on gut
   strings until he came back from WW2.
   Sent from my iPhone

 On May 7, 2019, at 5:20 PM, magnus andersson
 <[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
  Dear collective wisdom,
  From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been around
  since  at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
 Corbetta
  (who we know had
  to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
 his
  fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visée had
 found
  a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
 their
  strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
  "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
 cleanly; In
  the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
 like
  pearl[s]"
  /Magnus
  On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
  <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
 nail
polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
 would
love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
  lenses
and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
 chamois
stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
 better
in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
 those
  who
play with nails.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
  <[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
wrote:
Hahahaha good point!
To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
 remember
you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years
 to
polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
<[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
  Dear All:
  Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
 build
  lutes and
  craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
 file
  and
  polish
  their nails.
  Jim Stimson
  Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
  ---- Original message 
  From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
  Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
  To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
  Cc: Lute List <[5][5][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
  More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
  modern
  files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly
 prepared
  nails give
  a terrible result for both sound and playability. My
 teacher
  back
  in
  1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
  prepared
  his
  nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a
 saw-cut
  slot in
  it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block.
 The
  nail was
  then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,
 which
  acted as
  a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy
 and
  the art
  of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
  microstructure,
  I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails
  that
  were
  quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
  A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

 On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes

  <[6][6][9]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
  wrote:

 Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I

  understand,

 but
 I have always thought his lute pieces were merely

  arrangements of

 guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can

  establish
  the
  use

 of nails.
 And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely

  played

 theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to

  arrive on
  the

 scene.
 Get [1]Outlook fo

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[John Mardinly]

Actually this is very interesting. Here is  link to a photo of Equisetum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equisetum_hyemale#/media/File:Dried_Equisetum_hyemale.jpg
used for centuries in Japan to polish swords. I doubt that it would as well on 
nails as modern abrasive paper.The first ’sandpaper’ was supposedly invented in 
China in the 13th century. 'Glass paper' was manufactured in London in 1833 by 
John Oakey, whose company had developed new adhesive techniques and processes, 
enabling mass production, but modern ‘wet or dry’ paper with silicon carbide 
grit was not invented until 1921 (by 3M). Metal finishing centuries ago in 
Europe, like for polishing armor and swords, was done primarily using stones.  
My father was a wood hobbyist, refinishing wood from the time I was a child, 
and none of the abrasives he had access to in Philadelphia in the 60’s would 
have been useful for for preparing nails for playing, by today’s standards.

So, I submit that if deVisee played with nails, it would not be anything at all 
like a modern player using nails finished with modern 3M papers.
 
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


> On May 7, 2019, at 1:44 PM, John Mardinly  wrote:
> 
>   Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good nail
>   polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I would
>   love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope lenses
>   and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The chamois
>   stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much better
>   in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among those who
>   play with nails.
> 
>   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> 
>   On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran <[1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
>   wrote:
> 
>   Hahahaha good point!
>   To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to remember
>   you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years to
>   polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
>   ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
>   <[2]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
> 
>Dear All:
> Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to build
> lutes and
>craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file and
> polish
>their nails.
>Jim Stimson
>    Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> Original message 
>From: John Mardinly <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
>Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
>To: Roland Hayes <[4]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>Cc: Lute List <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
> modern
>files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared
> nails give
>a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher back
> in
>1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia prepared
> his
>nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a saw-cut
> slot in
>it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block. The
> nail was
>then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, which
> acted as
>a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy and
> the art
>of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
> microstructure,
>I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails that
> were
>quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
>A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
> <[6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
>wrote:
>> 
>>  Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I
>understand,
>>  but
>> 
>>  I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
> arrangements of
>>  guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can establish
> the
>use
>>  of nails.
>> 
>>  And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely
> played
>>  theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to
> arrive on
>the
>>  scene.
>> 
>>  Get [1]Outlook for Android
>> 
>>  This message is intended only for the use of the individual
> or
>entity
>>  to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
>>  privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
>applicable
>>  law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient,
>or
>>  the employee or agent responsible for 

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[John Mardinly]

   Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good nail
   polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I would
   love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope lenses
   and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The chamois
   stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much better
   in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among those who
   play with nails.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran <[1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
   wrote:

   Hahahaha good point!
   To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to remember
   you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years to
   polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
   ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
   <[2]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:

Dear All:
 Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to build
 lutes and
craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file and
 polish
their nails.
Jim Stimson
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message ----
    From: John Mardinly <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Roland Hayes <[4]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
Cc: Lute List <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
 modern
files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared
 nails give
a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher back
 in
1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia prepared
 his
nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a saw-cut
 slot in
it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block. The
 nail was
then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, which
 acted as
a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy and
 the art
of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
 microstructure,
I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails that
 were
quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
 <[6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
wrote:
>
>   Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I
understand,
>   but
>
>   I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
 arrangements of
>   guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can establish
 the
use
>   of nails.
>
>   And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely
 played
>   theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to
 arrive on
the
>   scene.
>
>   Get [1]Outlook for Android
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 or
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 6=Dw

 IBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joG
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 ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E���1m2M37zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvv
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 jgZ
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References

   1. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
   2. mailto:jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:john.m

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[John Mardinly]

More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the modern files and 
abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared nails give a terrible result 
for both sound and playability. My teacher back in 1965 had studied with 
Segovia, and showed me how Segovia prepared his nails: after some filing, he 
used a wooden block with a saw-cut slot in it and a piece of chamois wrapped 
around the wooden block. The nail was then rubbed back and forth on the chamois 
over the slot, which acted as a track to guide the nail. When I began to study 
metallurgy and the art of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their 
microstructure, I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails 
that were quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


> On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes  wrote:
> 
>   Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I understand,
>   but
> 
>   I have always thought his lute pieces were merely arrangements of
>   guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can establish the use
>   of nails.
> 
>   And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely played
>   theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to arrive on the
>   scene.
> 
>   Get [1]Outlook for Android
> 
>   This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
>   to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
>   privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable
>   law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or
>   the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the
>   intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
>   distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>   If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
>   immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at
>   i...@legalaidbuffalo.org --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=a61m2M37zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvvJqg=ctn5UU2dPJsBEQxzJcHstOUeERuDkBtXhs4pd0M0t-c=
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[LUTE] Re: Heavy theorbo neck

[John Mardinly]

   Some guitar makers have also believed that neck stiffness improves the
   sound. Ramirez 1A guitars have a significant graphite-epoxy inset along
   the neck to stiffen it, and that is said to be significant in a neck
   that is only 66.7cm.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Mar 23, 2019, at 2:22 PM, howard posner <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   wrote:

 On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Luca Manassero <[2]l...@manassero.net>
 wrote:
  I‘m about to ask him to rebuild the long neck of my big Hasenfuss
  theorbo, as the instrument has a fantastic voice, but Hasenfuss
 built a
  very heavy long neck, so it is really painful to homd during
 concerts.
  A lighter neck should solve the issue.
  All the best,
  Luca

   Consider that the heavy neck may be part of what makes the fantastic
   voice.  I've been told that a neck that's heavy, and therefore does not
   vibrate, increases resonance because a vibrating neck has a damping
   effect on the body of the instrument.  I don't recall whether Hendrik
   told me that, or it was volunteered by someone else, and I can't vouch
   for its accuracy as a matter of acoustical science.
   But I can tell you that the heavy neck on my Hasenfuss theorbo was
   never a problem because I never held the instrument while I played it.
I just used a strap, and ran a leather or fake-leather bootlace from
   the bridge-end of the instrument and sat on it (the lace, NOT the
   instrument).  I could take my hands off the theorbo completely.
   Indeed, listeners may have preferred it when I did.
   And it's a lot cheaper than rebuilding the neck.
   H
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=dI7
   xnDPu2Bjw9zV3K5G0E9IDY4yelOErGet17R0lSoA=zWiWsrleJ4nToa6SSrmJ7P-6D006
   twxiBkUKArhZubU=

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. mailto:l...@manassero.net
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=dI7xnDPu2Bjw9zV3K5G0E9IDY4yelOErGet17R0lSoA=zWiWsrleJ4nToa6SSrmJ7P-6D006twxiBkUKArhZubU=

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[John Mardinly]

   The only photo of Joseph Iadone I have seen shows him playing with the
   thumb out like Segovia plus with the wrist angled sharply like some
   mislead guitarists, begging carpal tunnel tendinitis. However, as you
   point out Dan, he must have been a fine musician before he got to the
   lute.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Mar 12, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Dan Winheld <[1]dwinh...@lmi.net> wrote:

   "Foot"note to my previous: Not to be forgotten iwas the extraordinary
   musician Joseph Iadone, bass player turned lutenist, associated with
   Paul Hindemith. Sui Generis, a lute player like no other; who forged
   his own path. He influenced me as well through his old Archive
   recordings; even before I discovered Julian Bream.
   On 3/12/2019 9:38 AM, Dan Winheld wrote:

 Martin Shepherd & Daniel Shoskes have each clearly revealed the
 essence of the two horns of this dilemma:
 #1.  The need to reproduce ALL the exact factors that must come into
 play to properly discover (rediscover?) the actual sound worlds of
 each & every different plucked instrument from quill plucked
 Medieval lutes to last-gasp end of the 18 century lutes. And all the
 in-betweens, where most of the current bloodshed is occurring.
 After instruments & strings are sorted out, get the hands corrected
 and the ears adjusted.
 #2. The equally compelling need for a student and lover of these old
 & not yet fully understood sound worlds to nevertheless get going
 and play this stuff, despite physical limitations and incomplete
 knowledge.
 This tension was clearly seen back during the time Julian Bream
 appeared on the scene bringing the lute (yes, of course "his" lute;
 he had no other; nor the means to play any other) to the public when
 Diana Poulton and others could not. Their task being that of
 exploration and study; creating all the necessary groundwork to
 ensure that future lutenists would come closer to the ideal of our
 beloved idee fixe that only Julian planted in the hearts and minds
 of so many of us older lute students.
 For some of us, Thumb-under was embraced as the only means to unlock
 our twisted wrists from the tyranny of Segovia's draconian "my way
 or the highway" approach to playing and teaching. Yes, I used that
 means on my first  "real" lute, an 8 course, a work of the late
 master Hugh Gough, clavichord builder extraordinaire (he declared
 the lute,  "The last instrument fit for a gentleman to play"). That
 instrument, so groundbreaking in its day (1973) exists now as the
 body of my small archlute, courtesy of Mel Wong.
 I now play that instrument thumb out, but nowhere near the "thumb
 out" of Andres Segovia! Same for my other instruments except the 6
 course- a mean lute (pitched at G, a-440 or A, a-392; take your
 pick) which becomes greased rocket sports car when played this way.
 I have a Baroque lute student- no longer young- with arthritis
 issues in his hands. All he wants is to play his lute- a fine
 Burkholtzer version by Dan Larson- any way possible given his
 conditions. We accommodate, because we have to. The lute, like any
 other musical instrument of any time, place, or condition of
 humanity; is to bring a little joy, pleasure, solace, relief, and
 enlightenment into one's life in a world already fraught with enough
 trouble and annoyance to go around.
 -But do carry on! Great discussion, actually.   Dan W.
 On 3/12/2019 6:15 AM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

 Martin: I see no contradiction between being genuinely interested in
 what historical lutes sounded like and how they were played and my
 comments below which agree with Besard that if your hand can’t
 physically achieve the ideal position, you can make adjustments. The
 classical guitar comment referred to how I played CG in my youth
 with the thumb out and the wrist internally rotated, a position that
 I can no longer sustain on the CG and which I agree is not
 synonymous with thumb out lute technique. I do agree that as more
 players experiment with thumb out while also trying to replicate
 what we know or suspect about distance from the bridge and gut
 string tension that it may change how we hear and interpret the
 music.
 You might be pleased to know however that my theorbo is double
 strung in gut!
 Danny

 On Mar 12, 2019, at 8:44 AM, Martin Shepherd
 <[2]mar...@luteshop.co.uk> wrote:
 I'm genuinely interested in what historical lutes sounded like and
 how they were played, so I'm not so interested in a "whatever works
 for you" approach, however popular it may be, along with single
 strung "archlutes", microscopic theorboes, and other horrors which
 a

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[John Mardinly]

   Excellent.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Mar 6, 2019, at 6:23 PM, howard posner <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   wrote:

 On Mar 6, 2019, at 5:02 PM, lex.eisenhardt
 <[2]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com> wrote:
  Have a look at my recent Visée video, on YT.

   [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com
   _watch-3Fv-3D3AEos1CGhTM-26frags-3Dpl-252Cwn=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQ
   usp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
   90E=_SpK9WPCeQGK1UuejcMcar7xrBOyojWpXpuympa-CjY�KzqEni_CALjB_FNoC-5
   tH8ybWRRhRfGvGVL6pMI94=
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
   u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gy
   cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=_SpK9W
   PCeQGK1UuejcMcar7xrBOyojWpXpuympa-CjY=-_-wTANMcxdL2LSOhNEAaz4TXPuU-GH
   B8NoEoi9FuBY=

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. mailto:lex.eisenha...@gmail.com
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D3AEos1CGhTM-26frags-3Dpl-252Cwn=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=_SpK9WPCeQGK1UuejcMcar7xrBOyojWpXpuympa-CjY�KzqEni_CALjB_FNoC-5tH8ybWRRhRfGvGVL6pMI94=

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[John Mardinly]

   As of course did Julian Bream, who was the inspiration for Paul
   O'Dette, and without whom most of you would likely not be playing the
   lute.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Mar 6, 2019, at 6:02 PM, lex.eisenhardt
   <[1]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Are you sure?
 Baroque guitarists used their nails,(strumming!) on gut strings. Not
   a
 great problem, even on lightly-strung instruments. It's a matter of
   the
 right angle of attack (and an 'elegant hand', as Montesardo tells
 you).
 Have a look at my recent Visée video, on YT.
 Lex
 Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
  Oorspronkelijk bericht 
 Van: Ron Andrico <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 Datum: 07-03-19 00:26 (GMT+01:00)
 Aan: Lex Eisenhardt <[3]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>, Lute Net
 <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>, magnus andersson <[5]maan7...@yahoo.com>
 Onderwerp: Re: [LUTE] Sv: Re: right hand technique -- bending the
   pinky
 As a practical matter - lute players always seem to skip this
   dimension
 - nails on gut strings are deadly, particularly on thinner strings.
 Yes, nails can be used but just who the heck could afford all those
 shredded strings?  Lute strings were very costly even relative to
 today's standards.
 RA
   __
 From: [6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
 of magnus andersson <[8]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 10:10 PM
 To: Lex Eisenhardt; Lute Net
 Subject: [LUTE] Sv: Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
I think we have plenty of evidence to support the use of
   fingernails
 at
least for archlutes and theorboes...
Piccinini, Silvius Weiss and Mace are three figures that give
 testimony
to this practice, the latter two although not necessarily in
   favour
 of
it.
[1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone
Den onsdag, mars 6, 2019, 9:16 em, skrev Lex Eisenhardt
<[9]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>:
  Almost no nails?
  L
  Van: Roland Hayes [[1]mailto:[2][10]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org]
  Verzonden: woensdag 6 maart 2019 21:02
  Aan: lex.eisenhardt <[2][3][11]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>
  Onderwerp: Re: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the
 pinky
  I would add "almost"
  Get [3]Outlook for Android
 _
  From: [4][4][12]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<[5][5][13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
  behalf of lex.eisenhardt <[6][6][14]lex.eisenha...@gmail.com>
  Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 2:37:05 PM
  To: Ron Andrico; Lute List
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
  No nails? On the theorbo?
  Lex
  Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone.
   Oorspronkelijk bericht 
  Van: Ron Andrico <[7][7][15]praelu...@hotmail.com>
  Datum: 06-03-19 20:30 (GMT+01:00)
  Aan: Lute List <[8][8][16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  Onderwerp: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the
 pinky
Thank you Martyn.  It's about time we all sorted out this
popular
misconception.  I have encountered several classical
 guitarists
  who
still think their right hand position must be completely
altered
  to
play lute, and it's a surprise to them when I say that
   their
hand
position is probably optimal for baroque lute and theorbo
   -
  perhaps
minus the nails.
RA
  
   __
From: [9][9][17]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  <[10][10][18]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
  behalf
of Martyn Hodgson
   <[11][11][19]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:55 PM
To: Lute List; Ron Andrico
Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the
 pinky
Indeed.  I well recall Eph Segerman remarking several
 years
  ago
  that
the obsession with thumb-under was, and for many
 remains,
an
  attempt
by
some modern lutenists to distance themselves from the
 hated
classical
guitar which, ironically, many had started out on!
As you say Ron, the evidence is very cl

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[John Mardinly]

   Ah, delightful to hear from someone who understand the physics of
   vibrating strings! The only thing I could add is that playing loudly
   ie: plucking with great force near the rosette could result in the
   strings slapping the fingerboard/frets unless the action was quite
   high, which could make the instrument difficult/uncomfortable to play.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Mar 6, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Sean Smith <[1]lutesm...@gmail.com> wrote:

 To say that plucking the string closer to the bridge is "louder"
   opens
 a few cans of worms here. To pluck the string at any place along its
 length from 12th fret to near the bridge is to put the same amount of
 energy into the string but introduces various overtones depending on
 where it happens. Introducing higher overtones by plucking near the
 bridge fools the ear into thinking it's louder - in some frequencies,
 yes, it is - but at the expense of less energy going into the
 fundamental note.
 Do the experiment: pluck with the same force a single bass string
   from
 anywhere from over the twelfth fret to the rose and to within
 milimeters of the bridge and see how the volume changes in relation
   to
 the fundamental to the overtones. As you get right up next to the
 bridge it's almost impossible to engage the fundamental note of any
 string while under the 12th it is less complex and uninteresting.
   It's
 simply a choice of how much of which.
 If you were to sight a high-speed camera up a theorbo bass string
   from
 the bridge and pluck close to the bridge you would see that overtone
 shoot up the string and back and barely engage the fundamental
 vibration. That overtone is the quickest to dissipate into the
 instrument and other entropies. When I was a kid hanging around
 sailboats I made a game of this hitting rigging and mooring lines
   with
 a mallet much to my father's dismay.
 To be fair, string resistance also plays into where we choose to
   pluck.
 There doesn't seem to be enough resistance for at the 12th while too
 near the bridge is all resistance, like strings of iron.
 When bass strings were fairly dull (i.e., when large diameter
 monofilament and earliest roped strings dissipated energy quickly and
 yielded few overtones) the addition of an octave string introduced
 overtones making it more palatable. As lengths and string tech
 grew/improved the octave string could be dismissed as we see in the
 loss of the 4th octave and later the others. To introduce a brighter
 sound (more overtones) one played nearer the bridge. (Fortunately,
   the
 less complex course, unisons/single string, also afforded more hand
 positions) But there is a cost here. That bright sound that cuts
 through the orchestra on the attack will destroy itself as the
 overtones cause the note to decay quicker or simply rob the
   fundamental
 tone of energy in the first place.
 Another factor in the decay of the note is the size and immobility of
 the instrument. A small lute will quickly absorb and dissipate the
 energy of that string. Clever players found that if you don't let the
 instrument sympathetically vibrate, the string will ring louder and
 certainly longer. And so the got more volume and/or longer ring from
 resting it against the table. Durer's sketch of an angel setting his
 lute on a pedestal is using the same trick as the painting of the
 French theorbo player in a group pushing his lute against the table.
 Needless to say, the theorbo and lutes had a hard time competing in
 sound with strings actually incorporated into the table: the
 harpsichord and even heavier (less overtone ridden) pianoforte.
 Sometimes I think we should return the monochord to lute theory.
 my 4 cents; carry on, Sean
 On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 9:20 AM Robin Irvine <[1][2]rf...@cam.ac.uk>
   wrote:
   There is another important aspect of this shift in hand position,
   and that is the sound. Try playing your lute with thumb under, near
   the rose, and then thumb out near the bridge. With the latter it
   makes a much more penetrating sound which carries better against a
   singer or other instruments, and would also carry better in a
   larger
   hall/room. This surely is an important part of the change in hand
   position. And it is almost impossible to play thumb/finger runs
   thumb out with octave stringing , so the introduction of unison
   strings on the lower 6 courses might have been a factor - it allows
   this shift in hand position, which was perhaps driven in part by
   the
   changing uses of the lute, to take place. After all, wasn't the
   original reason for creating the theorbo not least to give the
   instrument more 'welly'? So, as Martin says, playing a theorbo with
  

[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[John Mardinly]

   Maybe just ‘adjust' the nails. Nails have a range where they work OK on
   either instrument. In my experience, the center of the range for lute
   is shorter than the range for guitar, but there is some overlap. It is
   not necessary to give up one instrument for the other, just find the
   length that works acceptably for each.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Mar 6, 2019, at 12:30 PM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

 Thank you Martyn.  It's about time we all sorted out this popular
 misconception.  I have encountered several classical guitarists who
 still think their right hand position must be completely altered to
 play lute, and it's a surprise to them when I say that their hand
 position is probably optimal for baroque lute and theorbo - perhaps
 minus the nails.
 RA
   __
 From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
 of Martyn Hodgson <[4]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 3:55 PM
 To: Lute List; Ron Andrico
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
Indeed.  I well recall Eph Segerman remarking several years ago
   that
the obsession with thumb-under was, and for many remains, an
   attempt
 by
some modern lutenists to distance themselves from the hated
 classical
guitar which, ironically, many had started out on!
As you say Ron, the evidence is very clear
MH
On Wednesday, 6 March 2019, 13:08:10 GMT, Ron Andrico
<[5]praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
  Perhaps the mis-remembered quotation is a conflation of Besard
   and
  Vallet, who recommended thumb-index for fast passages.
 Nevertheless,
  music from around 1600 forward in time should be played with the
thumb
  out if we are to follow the written advice and the iconography.
I
  still see far too may baroque lute and theorbo players using
  thumb-under, which is patently absurd given both the historical
  precedent and the physical layout of extended bass instruments.
Isn't
  it about time lute players moved forward from the guitarist
   versus
  lutenist nonsense from the 1970s and played according to actual
  historical examples?
 __
  From: [1][6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   <[2][7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 on
behalf
  of Martin Shepherd <[3][8]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
  Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 8:23 AM
  To: Lute List
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
  Dear All,
  Just from memory - Besard insists on thumb-out technique as
   being
 the
  best, but allows that people with short thumbs may find
 thumb-inside
  easier.  I find it inconceivable that he would change hand
 position
  during a piece, and see no reason why you should not use
 thumb-index
  alternation in fast runs with thumb out - flamenco guitarists do
 it
all
  the time.
  The fingering dots in the ML lute book (c.1640) give an
 interesting
  indication of this.  In Dowland's fantasia (Poulton 1, ML
 ff.14v-15r)
  all runs are marked to be played middle-index, except where a
 running
  passage has infrequent bass notes (f.15, second system) which
   have
 no
  double dots (meaning middle), so presumably to be be played
  thumb-index.  Once the bass notes become more frequent (and the
 speed
  of the treble movement stays the same, 3rd and 4th systems) the
  middle-index alternation returns.  Then a fast cadential formula
 (end
  of
  system 5) lacks any double dots and is therefore thumb-index.
  I'm sure there are many other examples like this.  Nigel North's
recent
  talk at the Lute Society gave many interesting examples of RH
  fingerings.
  Martin
  On 06/03/2019 08:06, [4][9]jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote:

 Sorry: 'original', naturally!
 Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone.
   Originalnachricht
 Von: [5][10]jo.lued...@t-online.de
 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 07:49
 An: Lute net
 Antwort an: [6][11]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky
 Dear Alan, dear Jurgen,
 There is something to that effect in all 'oroginal' versions of

  Besard's instructions, that is: 1603 and 1617. I do not remember
 if
ye
  text englished contains the passage...

 Best
 Joachim
   Originalnachricht
 Von: Alain Veylit
 Gesen

[LUTE] Re: Dickens' guitar

[John Mardinly]

ÓM
÷ÍÀ×M
ÔQxßN}Þë¾Áð@{ÁZ²ç¸*'µéíO*^µìmþ™ZŠw!j»

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: me:mo, an interview with Lukas Henning

[John Mardinly]

Interesting that the article starts with Carl Sagan. I don’t know how well it 
is known that Carl Sagan chose a performance of Anthony Holborne’s ‘Farie 
Rownde’ by the late David Munrow and the Early Music Consort to be included on 
the  ‘Golden Record' that was part of the payload of the Voyager spacecraft in 
1977.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist



> On Nov 29, 2018, at 5:48 PM, David Morales  
> wrote:
> 
>   Dear lutenists,
>   I would like to share an interview with Lukas Henning that we have just
>   posted on our blog, related to his amazing project me:mo.
>   
> [1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cuerdaspulsadas.es_blog_memo-2Dproject-2Dan-2Dinterview-2Dwith-2Dlukas=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=LcZNr_ilNripaWtHeZlYvs40SHWUutXKZW5mgwOJzDk=
>   -henning/
>   By the way, Cuerdas Pulsadas is celebrating the eighth anniversary
>   these days and you can enjoy a 20% off in all our catalog. It is
>   perhaps a good chance to change strings or frets :)
>   Regards.
>   --
>   Cuerdas Pulsadas
>   [2]www.cuerdaspulsadas.com || [3]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
>   [4]BLOG || [5]AGENDA || [6]TIMELINE
> 
>[7]blog [8]facebook [9]twitter [10]instagram
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cuerdaspulsadas.es_blog_memo-2Dproject-2Dan-2Dinterview-2Dwith-2Dlukas-2Dhenning_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=oN8jbLBkZI0bYPgiq2qDg8Vb2OHE01eK6e8h4WZ590o=
>   2. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cuerdaspulsadas.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=Dk1FITsdeUrKPWGaJ46LBA0tz74zrU6Qx9NkGLgc5iU=
>   3. mailto:h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
>   4. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cuerdaspulsadas.es_blog=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=6ISu5N-c7Bt8cn_2pX0odLzaX6W2chWzqvkCN_IHKtE=
>   5. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__cuerdaspulsadas.es_blog_agenda_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=lKGxY0FzYqqmYGXofy8H857zOqa9c2CIv2dFc_LnoDg=
>   6. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cuerdaspulsadas.com_timeline=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=SZqTiXGaxfT_08cWfPFmZ0UkZM2p_ADDcHgn2DRhsJk=
>   7. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__.cuerdaspulsadas.com_blog=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=14HI3DX-taix3iym1_w5E-DXl5C2TmadPkQvWUEM-d0=
>   8. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.facebook.com_cuerdaspulsadas=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=odITc_KM9BXvH334meYQ9VKCcs317SYGh52n1RyVikk=
>   9. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_cuerdaspulsadas=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=BraYVlw6ux0hFHJGgeQ9sfZrG2xG8Xkuw3CZpZStkYQ=
>  10. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.instagram.com_cuerdaspulsadas=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=ymMTUrQ9W-BdN3RryYO1hp0exAmFeGjNx-uFifnPa0Q=
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ks93M3IfQp1pSdEZTJor2rI1_r2fSOpgm97yqRw8ThI=aL_VokvQ_bJPrJEj1OcN6KFIP9s9RedIPcDJiNhZjf8=

[LUTE] Re: Things you didn't know you should worry about

[John Mardinly]

The hazards of being a flutenist?

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


> On Jul 10, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Dan Winheld  wrote:
> 
> Loose lips sink lutes. Or flutes. What's the difference- my old guitar 
> teacher used to tell me to keep my mouth closed!
> Dan
> 
> 
> On 7/10/2018 1:07 PM, l...@reasonablefax.com wrote:
>> "Yamaha Lip Plate Patch
>> 
>> "The Yamaha Lip Plate Patch prevents the lips of the performer from slipping 
>> during a lute performance. Package contains 15 patches."
>> 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.flutespecialists.com_product_yamaha-2Dlip-2Dplate-2Dpatch_=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=crX8KL-P0WYWAmdtJ9Cv8A8ewGoMPqR5YikShvEKtsI=97UUQpRnYkdx_zSGzD9AAqU4T7BlFlG2EVia9Nrfe1I=
>> 
>> -Anne Burns
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=crX8KL-P0WYWAmdtJ9Cv8A8ewGoMPqR5YikShvEKtsI=DPOquWpe9ce9zWjMgUReW5_nJUmGQlakXkvEopdpF3k=
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Finger Fracture

[John Mardinly]

See the best specialist possible as soon as possible. Avulsion is especially 
serious because loss of circulation could result in gangrene necessitating 
amputation.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.



> On Jul 3, 2018, at 9:27 PM, Edward C. Yong  wrote:
> 
> hi lute people. 
> 
> i had a fall and ended up injuring my left index finger. specifically an 
> avulsion fracture at the base of the intermediate phalanx. have any of you or 
> folk you know had such an injury? 
> 
> my finger's in a splint now, and i'm wondering how long healing will take. 
> 
> i'm seeing the hand surgeon tomorrow and wonder if i should ask for a pin to 
> help it set and heal properly. any advice welcome!
> 
> 
> Edward Chrysogonus Yong
> edward.y...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIDAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=wZrodift9ekSW1-TPI3YGODdBxAz6NdLiEgiPSqxAOs=75CqAxh2vY2k-d6Zvn9K-H24MlbctJLB8PjkI7voR7Y=

[LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?

[John Mardinly]

   Has anyone ever tried re-drilling the holes to lower the action? How
   might one do that without removing the bridge?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

 On Jun 29, 2018, at 12:37 PM, guy_and_liz Smith
 <[1]guy_and_...@msn.com> wrote:
 I enlarged a couple of bridge holes on my old Larry Brown, which was
 apparently drilled for relatively thin wound basses and couldn't
 accommodate larger gut strings. I used what's called a pin vise to
 hold the drill (standard item in machine shops), with some tape on
 the top to protect it from the vise. Then just gently spin the pin
 vise with your fingers to drill out the hole. The main trick is
 finding a vice that's skinny enough to handle the spacing between
 hole and top.
 Here's one example of a pin vise:
 [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.c
 om_Starrett-2D162A-2DVise-2D0-2D0-2D040-2DRange_dp_B06Y5SG9LD_ref-3D
 sr-5F1-5F6-3Fs-3Dhi-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1530300625-26sr-3D1-2D6-26ke
 ywords-3Dpin-2Bvise=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK
 y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6j
 CjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY=VkMbfG1-1rjLpHg35Z1_NPV0P7ozNZteRfj
 QLWQdI3Q=
 Guy
 -Original Message-
 From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 [[4]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew Daillie
 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 11:50 AM
 To: lutelist Net
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lubricating string ends/bridge holes?
 Hi Howard,
 Even in relatively dry climates gut somehow manages to absorb
 humidity
 and swell over time.
 Personally I would try to avoid lubricating the strings. Have you
 tried
 cutting the end at an angle to slip it through?  You could probably
 also
 gently sand the last 5 mm or so of the end of the string with some
 very
 fine emery paper without the risk of fraying or weakening.
 Enlarging the bridge holes can be very straight forward with the
 appropriate tools (I can send you a photo of the tools I use if
 you're
 interested).
 Best,
 Matthew
 On 29/06/2018 19:14, howard posner wrote:

 I reconfigure the stringing on my archlute from time to time, which
 involves moving some extension strings so that, e.g. the 8th course
 becomes the 12th for one stringing B, then gets moved back for
 stringing A.
 I now find that couple of gut extension strings won't fit through
 bridge holes that they always fit through before.  I tried
 blow-drying the string ends, on the assumption that they had swelled
 with humidity (not a sound assumption where I live), without
 success.
 So now, if I don't want to string the whole instrument lighter, it
 seems I have two options:
 widening the bridge holes or lubricating the string ends.  I'd like
 to try lubricating first.
 Does anyone have experience with string lube jobs?  What do you use?
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safeli
 nks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmout
 h.edu-252F-7Ewbc-252Flute-2Dadmin-252Findex.html-26data-3D02-257C01-
 257C-257C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779-257C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aa
 aa-257C1-257C0-257C636658950444650467-26sdata-3DkNJclNqJmJgD
 eC5C5VeNawW0K5F7LzF-252FTJcgosQSnHQ-253D-26reserved-3D0=DwIFaQ=l
 45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx
 MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6jCjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ2bafjczwY
 =jBrUoVSMUtmITLVDRIEt0FwUXuBrRJuRD8BNz-sI1r4=
 ---
 Cet email a fait l'objet d'une analyse antivirus par AVG.
 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safelinks
 .protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-253A-252F-252Fwww.avg.com-26da
 ta-3D02-257C01-257C-257C1c0cd246441345bb1e8408d5ddf13779-257C84df9e7
 fe9f640afb435-257C1-257C0-257C636658950444650467-26sdata
 -3DPGsIilT0PmX6gfDMlgC0gUGdDH9ZVMB4X44c4eNop4g-253D-26reserved-3D0
 =DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6
 joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=o18tltRbhed6jCjqKxpJAhCot28OtiG0dJ
 2bafjczwY=aPk23Gxhx_SXUE8QFk5CxDaIW_ptRxS1TcThZZUk3Vc=

References

   1. mailto:guy_and_...@msn.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.amazon.com_Starrett-2D162A-2DVise-2D0-2D0-2D040-
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com_-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A-252F-252Fwww.cs.dartmouth.edu-252F-

[LUTE] Re: Ugga, Agga

[John Mardinly]

OK, it gets worse: the last part of the Wikipedia article that initially 
ignored mentions notes down to 4096th with 10 beams:




   The next note value shorter than the two hundred fifty-sixth 
note is the five hundred twelfth note with seven flags or beams; it is half as 
long as the two hundred fifty-sixth note. After this would come the one 
thousand twenty-fourth note (eight flags or beams), the two thousand 
forty-eighth note (nine flags or beams), the four thousand ninety-sixth note 
(ten flags or beams), and so on indefinitely, with each note half the length of 
its predecessor. The shortest note value to have ever been used in a published 
work is the 1024th note (notated incorrectly as a 2048th) in Anthony Philip 
Heinrich's Toccata Grande Cromatica from The Sylviad, Set 2, written around 
1825; 256th notes occur frequently in this piece, and some 512th notes also 
appear; the passage is marked grave but the composer also intended a huge!
  ritardando.[3]For comparison, the shortest notated duration supported by 
Finale is a 4096th note,[9] while LilyPond can write notes with up to 27 beams, 
as short as a 1073741824th (= 2−30) note.[10] 512th notes are easily accessible 
in Sibelius as of version 5.
Brian Ferneyhough uses many note and rest values well smaller than 256th in his 
2014 work Inconjunctions. In addition to occasional 512th and 1024th rests, 
there are multiple examples of 4096th notes. Many of these are also contained 
within tuplets, making their ratio to the whole note even smaller.[11]  


  
So now what; belly laugh or enormous groan...   


A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.





> On May 15, 2018, at 3:25 AM, Rainer <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
> Frankly speaking, the main reason for my post was the ridiculous 
> demisemihemidemisemiquaver :)
> 
> Rainer
> 
> 
> On 15.05.2018 04:12, howard posner wrote:
>>> On May 14, 2018, at 8:49 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> According to Wikipedia, here are some instances:the second movement 
>>> (Largo) of Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto (Op. 37) (1800), to notate 
>>> rapid scales
>> I just looked at/listened to it:
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Dl3qEckWYUDE=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=dSRIIS6aD_TrYLyG1DX8zCz_6J04Ig6QkqUjyAu-6iE=Fv7MI3cq_LGyMLX8l4TLUKrv0DEUHFJiL7Da8-HEm80=
>>  and if there are any actual 256th notes, I missed them (entirely possible, 
>> given that online scores can be fuzzy to the point where I could miss six 
>> beams instead of five) although there are some 128th-note tuplets which I 
>> suppose are faster than regular 128th notes.  (And of course, I may have 
>> been looking at a cleaned-up later edition.) The whole thing makes my eyes 
>> ache.  Critics complained about Beethoven’s use of such bizarre note values.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=dSRIIS6aD_TrYLyG1DX8zCz_6J04Ig6QkqUjyAu-6iE=WNK1zj-ZekbgU7ssypZ3o57rWUxYLWvJtv9vYkIS0Ss=

[LUTE] Re: Ugga, Agga

[John Mardinly]

According to Wikipedia, here are some instances:

the second movement (Largo) of Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto (Op. 
37) (1800), to notate rapid scales.[3] Another example is in Mozart's 
Variations on "Je suis Lindor" (1778), where four of them are used in the slow 
(molto adagio) twelfth variation.[4][5] A further example occurs (Grave.Adagio 
non troppo) in Jan Ladislav Dussek's (1760–1812) Fifth Piano Sonata, Op. 10 No. 
2.[6] They also occur (Largo) in Vivaldi's (1678–1741) Concerto, RV 444,[3][7] 
and in bar 15 of François Couperin's Second Prelude from L'art de toucher le 
clavecin(1716).[8]
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.



> On May 14, 2018, at 6:47 AM, Rainer <rads.bera_g...@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
> demisemihemidemisemiquaver




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: another lute nativity - 6 courses in 1475?

[John Mardinly]

   The left lute does not seem to have any pegs and neither appears to
   have a bridge, yet both lutenists look like they are trying to stop the
   lowest course with their thumbs.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

 On Apr 30, 2018, at 9:45 AM, Tristan von Neumann
 <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 This nativity has two very big lutes in it. Also, it seems the right
 lute has 11 pegs. Maybe this has been the subject of discussion
 already.
 Anyway, the lutes seem to have very elaborate 3d roses.
 [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.wga.hu_a
 rt_p_piero_3_13nativ3.jpg=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_
 2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=wh_SZbS
 Yl_pKk01g-RHHggNWQYddj8VLO9-X-3Y88Rk=dvc9-fCn1esY7bVAHvFNQn7W13CF0
 Ddo4Y17jTQGGZ4=
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
 .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
 R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
 =wh_SZbSYl_pKk01g-RHHggNWQYddj8VLO9-X-3Y88Rk=5Iop3GIVlGBuXi2wzop
 L0CO7Nai0R_N8SGjSocnwESw=

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.wga.hu_art_p_piero_3_13nativ3.jpg=DwICaQ=l45AxH-

[LUTE] Re: Left thumb on the sixth.

[John Mardinly]

If you teach and see a lot of thumbs, you may notice that there is significant 
variance in the distal thumb joint. Some thumbs can bend nearly 90 degrees 
outward but hardly at all inwards, and some thumbs can bend nearly 90 degrees 
inward and hardly at all outward. Those are the thumbs best suited for pressing 
a 6th string by reaching around the neck.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.



> On Apr 26, 2018, at 1:45 PM, Christopher Stetson 
> <christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Hi, all.
>   I somewhat agree with Gilbert on matters of "proper" technique, but as
>   someone who is self-taught, I know that cutting corners can lead to bad
>   habits that are hard to unlearn and tend to keep one from moving above
>   certain technical plateaus.   That said, he's also right that the taboo
>   of using the left thumb in "classical" guitar technique is fairly
>   recent (only a hundred years or so!)   As to Ron's observation re:
>   Rev. Gary Davis, it was also good enough for J. K. Mertz who used it
>   often, and I'm sure many others of his generation.   It might have had
>   something with the transition from the Viennese to the Spanish school
>   of guitar-making, which involved, among other things, a much wider
>   finger board.   However, I'm no expert on these things. so don't want
>   to get in too deep.
>   Best to all, and keep playing.
>   Chris.
> 
>   On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
>   wrote:
> 
>On guitar, the thumb typically plays the F-natural and F-sharp
> (first
>and second frets), as well as bass notes up the neck when
> necessary.   I
>would say that in lute music such bass notes are mostly more a
> function
>of moving polyphonic lines rather than part of a chord shape.
>Sean, as to your speculation that the sixth course may have tuned
> down
>a step and noted at the second fret when necessary, I doubt it.
> It is
>much less of pain to tune the course down and up again as
> necessary
>than to have to constantly fret what could easily be an open
> course.
>  
> __
>From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> on behalf
>of anotherdamn6c <[4]lutesm...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 7:33 PM
>To: lute
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Left thumb on the sixth.
>   Thanks, Jean-Marie and Ron. I'll check those images when I get
> home.
>   I'm just trying to figure out which chords or notes that
>facilitates.
>   Sean
>   On Thu, Apr 26, 2018, 12:18 PM Jean-Marie Poirier
>   <[1][5]jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>Have a look there :
>
> [1][2][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__le.luth.free.fr_pouce_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=qa2lba2iwERJBPsqIrJXZwy9ZoCnwkqu0FDGultPIog=TSqVzG5dfl2IOolUsEUj6bv3vEJ3IqwLerbNSoTJ8_I=
>Best,
>Jean-Marie
>Le 26 avr. 2018 Ã   20:47, Ron Andrico
> <[2][3][7]praelu...@hotmail.com> a
>Ã ©crit :
>  Using the thumb to fret the sixth course was absolutely
> an
> element of
>  16th century lute playing, based on iconography and a
> few
> mentions in
>  historical sources that escape me at the moment.The
> 20th-21st
>century
>  revivalist prejudice against this technique is and has
> been
> advanced
>by
>  lutenists who start out as classical guitarists.
> Full stop.
> I
>seldom
>  use the technique on the lute, mostly because the neck
> of my
> 72cm
>  six-course is a bit clubby.But I do use the
> technique on
> guitar.
>It
>  was good enough for Reverend Gary Davis, and it's good
> enough
> for me.
>  RA
> 
> __
>  From: [3][4][8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
> <[4][5][9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
>behalf
>  of anotherdamn6c <[5][6][10]lutesm...@gmail.com>
> 
>Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 5:41 PM
>  

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[John Mardinly]

   Beautiful! Thank you.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Mar 16, 2018, at 12:36 PM, Daniel Shoskes
   <[1]kidneykut...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Since you asked: [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3kCnbnSnc

   On Mar 16, 2018, at 2:09 PM, John Mardinly <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   wrote:

   So does anyone play contemporary music on the vihuela?
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

 On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:01 AM, Wayne <[4]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 wrote:
 One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we
 all, or most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part
 of our repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar,
 or our romantic guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone
 or synth in some cases.   If we can choose to play Spanish music on
 our vihuela we can choose to play Babbit on our (analogue tube)
 synth.  So maybe we are overlooking contemporary lute music because
 we tend to pick up a different instrument to play something modern.
  Especially when we need to be as loud as everyone else.
 Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the
 lute?
 Wayne

 Begin forwarded message:
 From: WALSH STUART <[5]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
 Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
 If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely
 odder to only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was
 composed centuries ago.
 Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person -
 who would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden
 it may be) - would it be enough to say that this choice was the
 harmless choice of a free being?
 There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a
 case of self-harm.

 --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1
 k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=

   --

References

   1. mailto:kidneykut...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DSZ3kCnbnSnc=DwMFAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=G0aY8fpNvhqk0wxOAagta3snWiONg5Ej7PqXLi_P9lQ=2R_e36lkcrq4rSiEO0E-egWNQMMEig0FngYKxMtBVVg=
   3. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   4. mailto:wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[John Mardinly]

So does anyone play contemporary music on the vihuela?

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya



> On Mar 16, 2018, at 10:01 AM, Wayne <wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
> One thing that has not been mentioned is that we have choices - we all, or 
> most of us, or some of us, can choose to play a certain part of our 
> repertoire on our Les Paul/Marshall, or our classical guitar, or our romantic 
> guitar, or our bandora, or ukulele or even saxophone or synth in some cases.  
>  If we can choose to play Spanish music on our vihuela we can choose to play 
> Babbit on our (analogue tube) synth.  So maybe we are overlooking 
> contemporary lute music because we tend to pick up a different instrument to 
> play something modern.  Especially when we need to be as loud as everyone 
> else.
> 
> Does anyone here not have or play any instrument at all but the lute?
> 
>  Wayne
> 
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: WALSH STUART <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Some questions
>> Date: March 16, 2018 at 12:26:07 PM EDT
>> 
>> If it seems odd to want to play modern music on a lute it is surely odder to 
>> only play a lute and only ever to play  music that was composed centuries 
>> ago.
>> 
>> Perhaps no one is odd enough for that! If there were such a person - who 
>> would only, ever,  play centuries' old music (however gem-laden it may be) - 
>> would it be enough to say that this choice was the harmless choice of a free 
>> being?
>> 
>> There is no obvious harm to others in such a case but perhaps it's a case of 
>> self-harm.
>> 
> 
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Cq8_Cpp93PPDjIzmNaKVn8vhxOpTAIt0w7NhvHvrI90=mXP2XUbNefjdSer1k5XKJOE4VcXoSp90MOCETu-wPOk=

[LUTE] Re: Goffriller

[John Mardinly]

 Zuill Bailey also plays a Matteo Gofriller Cello, made in 1693 when Bach was 8
 years old. He has performed the 6 Bach cello suites in one sitting 50 times, a
   feat to behold (when I saw him do it, he did it with no intermission-just
straight through). He might know something, but I have no contact info. His web
  site is [1]http://www.zuillbailey.com/index.php/en/

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Mar 15, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Edward Martin <[2]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Goffriller

   --

References

   1. http://www.zuillbailey.com/index.php/en/
   2. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[John Mardinly]

   It's not fear, it's taste. People play music that appeals to them.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:16 PM, howard posner <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
   wrote:

 On Mar 14, 2018, at 4:02 PM, Matthew Daillie
 <[2]dail...@club-internet.fr> wrote:
 Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
  incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of
 the
  great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period

   Wow! You must have heard some of my stuff.
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIDAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=KwS
   2jm7a8iv47DGTgbOAg07TXw4Eaa7fUeSXuJAli1U=OgK2QcSqCEBC3P-EsBS9VPjUyuVV
   YeyoZ2eMqeZiP2g=

References

   1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
   2. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIDAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=KwS2jm7a8iv47DGTgbOAg07TXw4Eaa7fUeSXuJAli1U=OgK2QcSqCEBC3P-EsBS9VPjUyuVVYeyoZ2eMqeZiP2g=

[LUTE] Re: Loose frets

[John Mardinly]

   My frets never come loose and they have not worn out yet. They are
   metal.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Mar 9, 2018, at 6:48 AM, Christopher Wilke
   <[1]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Martyn,
 I've actually had the opposite experience with the durability of
   double
 frets. Their practical lifespan isn't as long as single frets
   precisely
 because the side closest to the bridge takes the wear, leaving an
 uneven relation to the bridge side. This means they start buzzing
   very
 soon after being put on. (I used double frets on one of my albums.
   The
 track running order differed from the order in which they were
 recorded, but you can tell in exactly what sequence the pieces were
 done by the sound of the frets. By the end of the session, the
   fingered
 bass notes started growling like a fretless bass. And that was only
 over a few days of heavy playing!) Single frets, by comparison, can
 theoretically last until the "bridge side" is the fret above it.
 Another obvious disadvantage to double frets - they of course take up
 twice the fret gut. I'm not so deep in the pockets that I can afford
   to
 fret twice the number of instruments I actually own!
 I suspect double frets may have made more sense with historical gut,
 which was obviously more pliable and probably softer and more elastic
 than what we have available today.
 Chris
 [1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
 On Friday, March 9, 2018, 7:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson
 <[2]hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
   I'm pleased to hear it. Another advantage of double frets is that,
   being twice the length, the their elastic deformation and recovery
   is
   physically superior to a single: in short, you can move them around
   more (if you're that way inclined) without them becoming as loose
   as
 a
   single loop would.
   A yet further advantage is that the loop closer to the nut takes
   most
   of the wear leaving the fret loop closer to the bridge with a
   cleaner
   take-off for a longer period than a wholly single loop.
   rgds
   MH
 _
   _
   From: Matthew Daillie <[2][3]dail...@club-internet.fr>
   To: "[3][4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, 9 March 2018, 11:33
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Loose frets
   I've never had issues with single knots.
   Best,
   Matthew
   On 09/03/2018 11:39, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

 Indeed. And it also depends whether single fret loops are employed

   (something of a modern fad) rather than the  better, and easier

 to
   tie

   firmly, historical double fret loops

   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1][5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs
   .dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SR
   Qusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBR
   t90E=7mMcRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGd
   aTajMI2w_p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=
   --
 References
   1.
   [6][7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
   uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
   R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=
   7mMcRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGdaTajMI2
   w_p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=
 --
   References
 1.
   [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__overview.mail.y
   ahoo.com_-3F.src-3DiOS=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuK
   y6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7mMcRogksiKY0007
   ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=H8C40-taYnyGtUKgU5MbGe06j9u1e4VRrejUi0adF
   xk=
 2. [9]mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
 3. [10]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 4. [11]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 5.
   [12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7m
   McRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGdaTajMI2w_
   p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=
 6.
   [13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=7m
   McRogksiKY0007ZfaL3XnhuZkVpDxsbV3bstCwxGM=SlLsze13jVrklD6dGdaTajMI2w_
   p8KdnYINSWKhnwJA=

   --

References

   1. mailto:chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:hodgsonmar...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:dail...@club-internet.fr
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

[John Mardinly]

   Excellent find, Jacob. Clearly someone has too much free time on their
   hands.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:39 AM, Jacob Johnson <[1]tmrguitar...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 If a mashup counts as "evidence", then I humbly submit for the list's
 consideration the following:
 [1][2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtub
   e.com_watch-3Fv-3D7OYkWSW7u4k-26=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gy
   cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NElQy
   Y-FjQ6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=9NnOJNeNLrTSPmuUj0LfQre-1wKfTn6
   KqTPWIaM-L-k=
 #bigiftrue #staywoke #wakeupsheeple
 What blows my mind is how incredibly confrontational your tone is in
 nearly everything you post here, Tristan. It's cringey and strikes me
 as condescending.
 Jacob Johnson
 [uc?export=downloadid=0B6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQrevid=0B6
   _g
 M3BRE6ZraW9nQ2U4SGNwV0tYVWxobnNBVjBsZi9FNHhzPQ]
 Guitar/Lute
 [2][3]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com
 [3]469.237.0625.
 --
   References
 1.
   [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com
   _watch-3Fv-3D7OYkWSW7u4k-26=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2
   jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NElQyY-FjQ
   6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=9NnOJNeNLrTSPmuUj0LfQre-1wKfTn6KqTPW
   IaM-L-k=
 2.
   [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.johnsonguita
   rstudio.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=V
   LPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NElQyY-FjQ6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_
   X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=UjUobauXF-llUFFDed9ysx4m0q1nTPudVU0J7vKgJG4=
 3. tel:(469) 237-0625
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NE
   lQyY-FjQ6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=_A9NS1WANrwz2bVQr8awRUWQKz1C
   ikjBI2_Vw29lUAI=

   --

References

   1. mailto:tmrguitar...@gmail.com
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D7OYkWSW7u4k-26=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NElQyY-FjQ6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=9NnOJNeNLrTSPmuUj0LfQre-1wKfTn6KqTPWIaM-L-k=
   3. http://www.johnsonguitarstudio.com/
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3D7OYkWSW7u4k-26=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NElQyY-FjQ6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=9NnOJNeNLrTSPmuUj0LfQre-1wKfTn6KqTPWIaM-L-k=
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.johnsonguitarstudio.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NElQyY-FjQ6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=UjUobauXF-llUFFDed9ysx4m0q1nTPudVU0J7vKgJG4=
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5NElQyY-FjQ6PqCkDLz1SNCKT_X4cLNBUBcluht4OuE=_A9NS1WANrwz2bVQr8awRUWQKz1CikjBI2_Vw29lUAI=

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

[John Mardinly]

   Tristan;

   Here is the comment from my sister, BS Voice, New England Conservatory,
   Ph.D. Musicology Hartford Conservatory:

   "I have encountered many who overdo connections, like this guy!!"

   It's not just me.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:44 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   I'm sorry, Dr. John.
   I can't take you seriously any more.
   I am sorry that I do not have a harpsichordist, pro lutist and Indian
   Singer plus tabla at my disposal to provide you with ad hoc recordings
   of musicians actually playing together!
   I'm not a trained sound engineer!
   You are a Dr., so you have scientific education.
   Could you please provide some arguments? Please?
   Dowland even does the tabla triplets at the end, I find that pretty
   fascinating and convincing.
   Am 08.02.2018 um 19:27 schrieb John Mardinly:

You gotta be kidding me. Aside from being aurally hideous, it is
 so
ludicrous even Peter Schickele would not present it as a joke.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya
On Feb 8, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Tristan von Neumann
<[1][2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
I have decided to post this anyway
(this is for you, Gene!)
100% match. No excuse for "coincidence". This is consciously
 planned to
the detail.
About choosing the point of alignment: it is always the beginning
 or
the ending, depending what piece is longer. I never cheat.
This also confirms my hypothesis that John Dowland was the key
distributor of Ragas
Has anybody wondered where the "Blue notes" in English music come
 from?
Now you know.
Whoever played this had great intuition. Maybe he's on the list
 and
recognizes his playing. (I pitched the lute higher though...)
Now you know also about the true tempo to play Dowland.
(Relax, Paul :))
[2][3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundc
 loud.com_
tristan-2Dvon-2Dneumann_john-2Ddowland-2Dfantasy-2D7-2Dalhaiya-2D
 bilawa
l=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8O
 E-c_C6
joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=mu7Q8qq2neoXtmI2lot73Pu1bV4moy7
 KOYvqb
_CPO_4_e-NowLOHjdmOJa8J5lVsFfZhfws9MBAF4=
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
 tmouth.ed
u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
 R0n1Gy
cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=
 mu7Q8q
q2neoXtmI2lot73Pu1bV4moy7KOYvqb_CPO_4�UvBxZ14_SRl3pg29_W2OIx3M7
 Nx9w
mF0JGA7QyRiw=
--
 References
1. [5]mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
2.
 [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundcloud.c
 om_tristan-2Dvon-2Dneumann_john-2Ddowland-2Dfantasy-2D7-2Dalhaiya-2D
 bilawal=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLP
 J8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=mu7Q8qq2neoXtmI2lot73Pu1b
 V4moy7KOYvqb_CPO_4_e-NowLOHjdmOJa8J5lVsFfZhfws9MBAF4=

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   3. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundcloud.com_
   4. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
   5. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundcloud.com_tristan-2Dvon-2Dneumann_john-2Ddowland-2Dfantasy-2D7-2Dalhaiya-2Dbilawal=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=mu7Q8qq2neoXtmI2lot73Pu1bV4moy7KOYvqb_CPO_4_e-NowLOHjdmOJa8J5lVsFfZhfws9MBAF4=

[LUTE] Re: Here it is: John Dowland Fantasy 7 - Raga Bilawal.

[John Mardinly]

   You gotta be kidding me. Aside from being aurally hideous, it is so
   ludicrous even Peter Schickele would not present it as a joke.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Feb 8, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   I have decided to post this anyway
   (this is for you, Gene!)
   100% match. No excuse for "coincidence". This is consciously planned to
   the detail.
   About choosing the point of alignment: it is always the beginning or
   the ending, depending what piece is longer. I never cheat.
   This also confirms my hypothesis that John Dowland was the key
   distributor of Ragas
   Has anybody wondered where the "Blue notes" in English music come from?
   Now you know.
   Whoever played this had great intuition. Maybe he's on the list and
   recognizes his playing. (I pitched the lute higher though...)
   Now you know also about the true tempo to play Dowland.
   (Relax, Paul :))
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundcloud.com_
   tristan-2Dvon-2Dneumann_john-2Ddowland-2Dfantasy-2D7-2Dalhaiya-2Dbilawa
   l=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6
   joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=mu7Q8qq2neoXtmI2lot73Pu1bV4moy7KOYvqb
   _CPO_4=EBcTFtai5_e-NowLOHjdmOJa8J5lVsFfZhfws9MBAF4=
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
   u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gy
   cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=mu7Q8q
   q2neoXtmI2lot73Pu1bV4moy7KOYvqb_CPO_4=82UvBxZ14_SRl3pg29_W2OIx3M7Nx9w
   mF0JGA7QyRiw=

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundcloud.com_tristan-2Dvon-2Dneumann_john-2Ddowland-2Dfantasy-2D7-2Dalhaiya-2Dbilawal=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=mu7Q8qq2neoXtmI2lot73Pu1bV4moy7KOYvqb_CPO_4=EBcTFtai5_e-NowLOHjdmOJa8J5lVsFfZhfws9MBAF4=

[LUTE] Re: John Bull's Fantasy XII is Raga Yaman

[John Mardinly]

   I listened, but only a little, because I found the sound to be so
   horrible I just could not stand it. So whatever the musicological
   arguments, it is just not musical, IMHO.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Feb 7, 2018, at 5:01 PM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   I would not dare to call you a fool if you actually took your time to
   listen :)
   In case of my experiments I grant you, there is room for doubt.
   But with Fantasy X and XII: Did you *really* listen?
   (I hope your disbelief did not impair your hearing. This human trait
   has been proven scientifically.)
   And if it's not connected, I would be very happy to know:
   how do you explain the total weirdness of especially those two
   fantasies? There is nothing remotely resembling this, and I have played
   and listened a lot. I would very much love to get other keyboard pieces
   in that style then, regardless :)
   However (also to you, G. C.) - it is not the compatible mode, it is
   also basic motives of the Raga that can be found exactly at the right
   place, and the matching .
   I have yet to organize a real meeting between for example a singer and
   a keyboardist.
   If anything, this could be a nice intercultural exchange.
   My old musicology professor by the way does agree with the finding.
   Though due to tempo inconsistecies (if oyu change tempo digitally, it
   sound terrible) I did not post it:
   If a Hindustani flute player matches Fantasy XII, it sounds like a
   Castello Sonata. I will try and prepare a mix with that, but I have not
   yet found the right music source.
   Anyone interested may get an mp3 in private email.
   Am 07.02.2018 um 23:32 schrieb Arto Wikla:

 Well, I listened carefully all those example combinations of Bull's
 harpsichord pieces and the suggested similiar(?) raga performances,
 and sincerely I could not find much in common between them, just two
 different sound clips connected. Tristan von Neumann is of course
 free to name me also "fool" even after I really listened his
 medleys, but while I definitely strongly disagree his idea... ;-)
 all the best,
 Arto
 On 07/02/18 07:53, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

  > Those who would even want to listen are fools.
 Of course, those who wouldn't.
 Am 07.02.2018 um 06:48 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:

 I can't believe almost no one is excited about this discovery.
 All those who *still* doubt me, listen to this epic Raga Yaman
 accompanied by John Bull's Fantasy XII.
 I did nothing but adjust the pitch and placement of the tracks.
 [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundcloud.c
 om_tristan-2Dvon-2Dneumann_fantasy-2Dxii-2Draga-2Dyaman=DwIFaQ=l
 45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvx
 MmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=g5Mvdxr8z93ee25sSDwGuVInZTUz9gfXUg7fW3Na1WY
 =1xnfxUm7AExv3fynzrS7vu6HqNFQDFHxIUTqS6sE3S4=
 Those who would even want to listen are fools.
 Like the pope who wouldn't look through Galilei's telescope.
 Those who will listen will hear.
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
 .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
 R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
 =g5Mvdxr8z93ee25sSDwGuVInZTUz9gfXUg7fW3Na1WY=V6eR6A5_071tTaJdV-M
 4LEK9BGfXmWm5zbd55V9auIo=

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__soundcloud.com_tristan-2Dvon-2Dneumann_fantasy-2Dxii-2Draga-2Dyaman=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=g5Mvdxr8z93ee25sSDwGuVInZTUz9gfXUg7fW3Na1WY=1xnfxUm7AExv3fynzrS7vu6HqNFQDFHxIUTqS6sE3S4=

[LUTE] Re: Cherbury lute book

[John Mardinly]

   Wasn't Dowland fired by King Christian of Denmark for being drunk all
   the time? Could it be then considered that playing ‘stoned' was more
   ‘authentic'?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Feb 2, 2018, at 5:26 AM, fournierbru <[1]fournier...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

 the Montreal community will be able to get stoned legay as of
   july
 1st...personally at 59..I am no longer interested..prefer playing
 Ballard and Gaultier
 Bruno
 Envoyé de mon appareil Samsung de Bell via le réseau le plus vaste au
 pays.
  Message d'origine 
 De : Dan Winheld <[2]dwinh...@lmi.net>
 Date : 18-02-01 8:44 PM (GMT-05:00)
 À : Susan Sandman <[3]susan.sand...@gmail.com>, Tristan von Neumann
 <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
 Cc : lutelist Net <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Objet : [LUTE] Re: Cherbury lute book
 They are legalizing Marijuana all over the place, come to California
   if
 you want to get stoned! (I gave up that little distraction decades
   ago,
 but I also much prefer Ballard). :-D
 Dan
 On 2/1/2018 5:15 PM, Susan Sandman wrote:

Stoning is medieval, appropriate only hundreds of years before...
Susan
On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 6:46 PM Tristan von Neumann
<[1][6]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  Do I get stoned by the community if I say that I like Ballard

 more

  anyway? :)
  Am 02.02.2018 um 00:36 schrieb Jean-Marie Poirier:

 En guise de conclusion ;-) :
 If you look at the chronological development of Ennemond's

 career

  and life, his "his high reputation" as a baroque lute super

 hero

  simply doesn't hold.

 So there must be other material around to explain this

 phenomenon.

 Cherbury is only one piece in the puzzle and certainly not

 the

  most interesting one concerning old Ennemond! There is a lot

 more to

  see and play in at least a dozen other ms. and of course his
  production in accords nouveaux is another essential aspect of

 the

  problem.

 Merci de votre intérêt et la "chasse" continue... :-)!
 Best,
 Jean-Marie

 Le 1 févr. 2018 à 22:53, G. C. <[2][7]kalei...@gmail.com>

 a écrit

  :

PS.
And of course, I meant to say "you and Jean-Marie"

 SORRY! :D

On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:27 PM, G. C.

  <[1][3][8]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Great that you feel that way, Ron. I'm just saying,

 that

  comparing to
 what there is of real quality music for the lute

 out

  there, and

  trying
 to keep in mind, the "high reputation" of Ennemond

  Gaultier, I'm

  sadly,
 not at all impressed by these alleged simple

 courantes

  and voltas

  in
 Cherbury. Whatever his fame might otherwise be,

  these little

  pieces
 just don't cut the mustard IMHO.
 But if you, as a renowned player, recognise

 Ennemond's

  style in

  those
 little ditties, I'm definitely not going to argue.

 :)

 Best
 G
 On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:09 PM, Ron Andrico
  <[1][2][4][9]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
  G, I think you may have misunderstood my

 message.

I was

  not
   saying
  there were concordances in the CNRS edition of

  Vieux

  Gaultier
   that
  definitely linked pieces in Herbert to the

 proper

  Gaultier.

 I
   said
  that one could easily identify the style of

 music

  in that

  edition
   and
  compare to the sparse style of the Herbert

 pieces

  attributed

  to
  Gaultier. From a player's point of view, I

 feel

  a very

  strong
  similarity, and one only has to supply

 ornamented

  repeats in

  the
   proper
  style to flesh out the bones of these pieces

 and

  make some

  very
   fine
  music.
  RA
 --
  References
 1. mailto:[3][5][10]praelu...@hotmail.com
  To get on or off this list see list information at

  [4][6][11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__w
 ww.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH
 -kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gyc

[LUTE] Re: BWV 998 at Christie's

[John Mardinly]

   Cool but-good Lord-he's handling it without gloves.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Feb 1, 2018, at 9:29 AM, Bernd Haegemann <[1]b...@symbol4.de> wrote:

   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.christies.co
   m_features_My-2Dhighlight-2Dof-2D2016-2DJS-2DBach-2Dautograph-2Dmanuscr
   ipt-2D7966-2D3.aspx=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6z
   bqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=PBlHzNqFtqvGsEhHqEA
   FNW_zvVIG1Vb2R5V5KUeI3Ys=_2gDeFufdW6uZjFN3-cdBn8jaTPwxaf8ITQtjjQIg-A&
   e=
   kind regards
   Bernd
   ---
   Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
   https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_anti
   virus=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-
   c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=PBlHzNqFtqvGsEhHqEAFNW_zvVIG1Vb2R
   5V5KUeI3Ys=GeDb25ivZ3Vw244dcYZ7u4f4asysSoQuj5zLIxEBrx4=
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
   u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gy
   cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=PBlHzN
   qFtqvGsEhHqEAFNW_zvVIG1Vb2R5V5KUeI3Ys=lOO_IWwLf9cR2vgdPXVlTsQHtesFJ7H
   fr65u8gZ5o6k=

References

   1. mailto:b...@symbol4.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.christies.com_features_My-2Dhighlight-2Dof-2D2016-2DJS-2DBach-2Dautograph-2Dmanuscript-2D7966-2D3.aspx=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=PBlHzNqFtqvGsEhHqEAFNW_zvVIG1Vb2R5V5KUeI3Ys=_2gDeFufdW6uZjFN3-cdBn8jaTPwxaf8ITQtjjQIg-A=

[LUTE] Re: Cherbury lute book

[John Mardinly]

--_000_FFA9553912F34B37A36432623F95F2B4asuedu_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1258"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Appalling about the Siena Lute Book.

Gloves are cheap!

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

[cid:43213E1A-45A3-4C0C-B084-966A95C27ED9]

The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya



On Jan 31, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Arthur Ness 
<arthurjn...@verizon.net<mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net>> wrote:

the Siena Lute Book


--_000_FFA9553912F34B37A36432623F95F2B4asuedu_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1258"
Content-ID: <fdab66bcacba2e4889ad1b663dbe1...@namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable






Appalling aboutthe Siena 
Lute Book.


Gloves are cheap!





A. John Mardinly, Ph.D.,P.E.




The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters

Francisco Goya






On Jan 31, 2018, at 12:12 PM, Arthur Ness mailto:arthurjn...@verizon.net; class="">arthurjn...@verizon.net 
wrote:

the
 Siena Lute Book







--_000_FFA9553912F34B37A36432623F95F2B4asuedu_--

--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: four and twenty

[John Mardinly]

   Ah, but Voyager is still going strong after 40 years. Voyager and its
   ‘Golden Record' are still going ~38,000 mph, about 13 billion miles
   from our sun. One of the musical selections chosen by Carl Sagan was a
   performance of Holborne's ‘Fairie Rownde' by David Munrow and The Early
   Music Consort of London. This record was recently re-issued, and
   actually won a GRAMMY last night!

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 29, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   Because of the constant clinging to weird units,
   we already lost an expensive Mars probe :)
   Am 29.01.2018 um 12:55 schrieb Christopher Stetson:

And, to continue Monica's thoughts, the change Rainer is speaking
 of
took place long before there were any standards for teachers at
 all.
it also depends on time and place.   In the United States, we
 have
certainly had standards for teachers for several decades,
 including
grammar, though I have never heard of any authority in any
 English
speaking country that could mandate this kind of usage.
 However,
almost all of the English speaking population of the United
 States
still think in pints, yards, inches, gallons, and pounds.   The
 only
exception would be the scientific community, and I'm sure they're
"bilingual".   We made an attempt to officially go metric in the
 early
1970's, but the only survivor is soft drinks.   I buy gallons of
 milk
and gasoline, but liters of Coke.
Best to all, and keep playing,
Chris.
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 6:27 AM, [1][2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<[2][3]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
  There is never likely to be any official reform of the English
  language.   And teachers don't have a common opinion on what to
  teach
  children. The policy is to leave children to find everything
 out for
  themselves.
  As ever
  Monica
Original Message
From: [3][4]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
Date: 29/01/2018 9:37
To: "Lute net"<[4][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subj: [LUTE] four and twenty
A clarification:
I always thought that there must have been (sort of) an official
reform.
At least teachers must have a common opinion what to teach
 children.
Apparently there was none in England.
In Germany from time to time "mathematicians" propose to change
 the
German system since the current system makes learning Math hard
 for the
children.
Of course, this has nothing to do with mathematics :)
I guess such a reform (in Germany) would be very confusing for
 several
decades.
Switching from shillings and pennies to 100 pence per pound must
 have
been hard.
Do many people still think in yards, miles, pints, ...?
Cheers,
Rainer
PS
A new standard kilogram will probably come soon.
PPS
Coming back to lute matters: most people describe string tensions
 in
terms of Kg which is plain nonsense since Kg is the unit of
 matter.
What should be used is Kilopond which is equal to the magnitude
 of the
force exerted by one kilogram of mass in a 9.80665 m/s2
 gravitational
field.
However, officially kilopond should not be used any more (since
 c1980).
I still prefer to talk about a tension of 3 Kilopond instead of
 29.4
Newton :)
To get on or off this list see list information at
[5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.
 dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29
 SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpK
 ZONBRt90E=3HS2quzvkNfoecHYpGNfIsPhIHdMXFqrkmZgBnp835g=zwkwEEorCN
 X-0oZv0qYLooBZ0WZpRSf_zAI_rYiDIzo=
--
 References
1. [7]mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
2. [8]mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. [9]mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
4. [10]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5.
 [11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartm
 outh.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQus
 p9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBR
 t90E=3HS2quzvkNfoecHYpGNfIsPhIHdMXFqrkmZgBnp835g=zwkwEEorCNX-0oZ
 v0qYLooBZ0WZpRSf_zAI_rYiDIzo=

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
   5. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar

[LUTE] Re: My cat is playing the lute! Where can I get free tabs?

[John Mardinly]

   Cats playing lutes is great. I also like cats playing the samisen:

   [1]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/65/ea/6365eaca812630279eb6228aa609
   d1ff.jpg
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 29, 2018, at 2:22 AM, David Morales
   <[2]dmorale...@cuerdaspulsadas.com> wrote:

 Hello,
 Let me please suggest our tablatures search engine
 ([1][3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__cuerdaspul
   sadas.es_blog_buscador-2Dde-2Dtablaturas_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
   9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
   =-YbRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSthpMkQt4uzhgI=qsKe4Snkow3iASWIu4gJkU
   VibuJY_juRK2mWsxv0OYI=)
 At this moment, only Sarge Gerbode's collection is indexed but you
   can
 find lots of great tabs there.
 And... here you have our "Cats" initiative, where cats actually
 play lutes :)
 [2][4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__cuerdaspuls
   adas.es_blog_catslutes-2Dan-2Dinterview-2Dwith-2Dthe-2Dillus=DwIBAg
   =l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxM
   mQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-YbRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSthpMkQt4uzhgI=Rdg
   Pb6FLxRAE3mTXmpJmwCd35mv0bkURsBokqHBo130=
 trator-nathan-nun/
 Regards.
 2018-01-29 5:29 GMT+01:00 Ron Andrico <[3][5]praelu...@hotmail.com>:
  Cats are enthusiastic advocates for synthetic strings, and they
   are
  likewise very interested in free tabbies.

   __
  From: [4][6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   <[5][7]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   on behalf
  of Tristan von Neumann <[6][8]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
  Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 3:02:59 AM
  To: lutelist Net
  Subject: [LUTE] My cat is playing the lute! Where can I get free
   tabs?
  Also, is cat gut best, and how can I convince my cat?
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [1][7][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www
   .cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV2
   9SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZO
   NBRt90E=-YbRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSthpMkQt4uzhgI=FfqSiS5YqHuXluz
   _b1TKNjXe8gcgi6uE2eMqZP5RGpU=
  --
   References
  1.
   [8][10]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartm
   outh.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9v
   YR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
   =-YbRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSthpMkQt4uzhgI=FfqSiS5YqHuXluz_b1TKNjXe
   8gcgi6uE2eMqZP5RGpU=
 --
 Cuerdas Pulsadas
 [9][11]www.cuerdaspulsadas.com || [10][12]h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
 [11]BLOG || [12]AGENDA || [13]TIMELINE
 [14]blog [15]facebook [16]twitter [17]instagram
 --
   References
 1.
   [13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__cuerdaspulsadas
   .es_blog_buscador-2Dde-2Dtablaturas_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-Y
   bRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSthpMkQt4uzhgI=qsKe4Snkow3iASWIu4gJkUVibuJ
   Y_juRK2mWsxv0OYI=
 2.
   [14]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__cuerdaspulsadas
   .es_blog_catslutes-2Dan-2Dinterview-2Dwith-2Dthe-2Dillustrator-2Dnathan
   -2Dnun_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8O
   E-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-YbRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSt
   hpMkQt4uzhgI=qKOl_3s2fUtBee8vdu-rQgNvRU4QW4aWknj0HjbIjEI=
 3. [15]mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
 4. [16]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 5. [17]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 6. [18]mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
 7.
   [19]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-Y
   bRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSthpMkQt4uzhgI=FfqSiS5YqHuXluz_b1TKNjXe8gc
   gi6uE2eMqZP5RGpU=
 8.
   [20]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-Y
   bRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5bSthpMkQt4uzhgI=FfqSiS5YqHuXluz_b1TKNjXe8gc
   gi6uE2eMqZP5RGpU=
 9.
   [21]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cuerdaspuls
   adas.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ
   8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=-YbRxEXrT5dD8bGCD2d61i2tumM5b
   SthpMkQt4uzhgI=ByN0Nw-eWeF6Z8aaqX0m4lQUX6_zbN9IkKf_t5ipASE=
10. [22]mailto:h...@cuerdaspulsadas.com
11.
   [23]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cuerdaspuls
   adas.es_blog=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY

[LUTE] Re: four and twenty

[John Mardinly]

   The speedometer in my car reads out in ‘furlongs per fortnight', but
   what does this have to do with lutes?

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 29, 2018, at 2:37 AM, Rainer <[1]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
   wrote:

   A clarification:
   I always thought that there must have been (sort of) an official
   reform.
   At least teachers must have a common opinion what to teach children.
   Apparently there was none in England.
   In Germany from time to time "mathematicians" propose to change the
   German system since the current system makes learning Math hard for the
   children.
   Of course, this has nothing to do with mathematics :)
   I guess such a reform (in Germany) would be very confusing for several
   decades.
   Switching from shillings and pennies to 100 pence per pound must have
   been hard.
   Do many people still think in yards, miles, pints, ...?
   Cheers,
   Rainer
   PS
   A new standard kilogram will probably come soon.
   PPS
   Coming back to lute matters: most people describe string tensions in
   terms of Kg which is plain nonsense since Kg is the unit of matter.
   What should be used is Kilopond which is equal to the magnitude of the
   force exerted by one kilogram of mass in a 9.80665 m/s2 gravitational
   field.
   However, officially kilopond should not be used any more (since c1980).
   I still prefer to talk about a tension of 3 Kilopond instead of 29.4
   Newton :)
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=IEF
   L89GyOY97x96aKjp3MEWUydVvN967BrAOLO5d-qU=4_lSKSVLdgY1eMlTbYnicWdt3GGU
   _-xvK2PwO49bVfY=

References

   1. mailto:rads.bera_g...@t-online.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=IEFL89GyOY97x96aKjp3MEWUydVvN967BrAOLO5d-qU=4_lSKSVLdgY1eMlTbYnicWdt3GGU_-xvK2PwO49bVfY=

[LUTE] Re: Double first courses (chanterelles)

[John Mardinly]

   And my Turkish Saz, or Baglama, has THREE strings for the top course!

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 22, 2018, at 8:22 AM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
   <[1]fournier...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Interesting to note however that the ancestor of the european lute,
   ie
 the arabic Oud, has had double chanterelles all throughout history...
 in fact its the lowest string which sometimes is single.
 Bruno
 2018-01-22 3:29 GMT-05:00 Antonio Corona
 <[1][2]abcor...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
  Dear Edward,
  Despite what the pegs on the vihuelas suggest, I've found plenty
   of
  evidence that it was strung with a single first. We need to
   review our
  ideas on the subject of vihuela stringing ...
  Best wishes
  Antonio

   __
  From: Edward Martin <[2][3]edvihuel...@gmail.com>
  To: lute net <[3][4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
  Sent: Sunday, 21 January 2018, 14:56
  Subject: [LUTE] Double first courses (chanterelles)
Dear Collective wisdom,
When did double first courses cease to exist on renaissance
   lutes?
  We
know from early on, and from the middle ages, they were double
   strung
on every course, including the treble.   In terms of
   iconographical
evidence, I looked at the Caravaggio "Lute Player", an the
   subject
  (he
or she) is playing a 6 course lute, double strung throughout,
  including
the treble, and there are 6 pegs on the upper and lower side
   of
   the
  peg
box.   Caravaggio's birth- death dates are 1571Ã ¢1610.   So,
   perhaps
his
  subject had an old fashioned lute for the time, or perhaps
  double-strung first courses lasted longer than we may think.
  Vihuelas also her double strung in the first courses, at least
   the
  instruments show 12 pegs for the 6-course vihuela.
  I tried to look up some information to answer my questions, but
   I
could
  not find any in the sources I used.
  So, my questions are:
  1.   When did the double first courses stop, or go out of vogue?
 Was
  it universal, or did some countries / nationalities stop the
 practice
  earlier or later than others.?   Did Francesco use a double
   first
  course?
  2.   Why did the double chanterelle stop?   We know that later,
 lutes
  only had pegs and pegboxes to accommodate a single treble.
  3.   What evidence is there to support the "when and why" of
   this
  practice?
  4.   If a double chanterelle was the norm for a great part of
   the
  renaissance, why is it that it is so infrequently that we see a
modern
  player doing this practice?
  Thanks in advance.
  ed
  --
To get on or off this list see list information at
  [1][4][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www
   .cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV2
   9SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZO
   NBRt90E=ZAE1h8dUvDbWCESX4gAwQjro-_GMHRFMcnF2AeTlPbo=yyZ8RdhhYx1yZSe
   eAxxT6OzIwteDIQFfs75YHV4qJJs=
  --
   References
  1.
   [5][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
   uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vY
   R0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=
   ZAE1h8dUvDbWCESX4gAwQjro-_GMHRFMcnF2AeTlPbo=yyZ8RdhhYx1yZSeeAxxT6OzIw
   teDIQFfs75YHV4qJJs=
 --
   References
 1. [7]mailto:abcor...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 2. [8]mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
 3. [9]mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 4.
   [10]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ZA
   E1h8dUvDbWCESX4gAwQjro-_GMHRFMcnF2AeTlPbo=yyZ8RdhhYx1yZSeeAxxT6OzIwte
   DIQFfs75YHV4qJJs=
 5.
   [11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmout
   h.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0
   n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=ZA
   E1h8dUvDbWCESX4gAwQjro-_GMHRFMcnF2AeTlPbo=yyZ8RdhhYx1yZSeeAxxT6OzIwte
   DIQFfs75YHV4qJJs=

References

   1. mailto:fournier...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:abcor...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:edvihuel...@gmail.com
   4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-

[LUTE] Re: String tech

[John Mardinly]

   Maybe the sheep need probiotics for health of intestinal bacteria…..

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
   408-921-3253, [1]john.mardi...@asu.edu
   YouTube Channel:
   [2]https://www.youtube.com/user/jmardinly/videos

   On Jan 20, 2018, at 5:38 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   Since gut is the intestines of a living, breathing being, it is
   certainly exposed to some environmental or dietary change.
   I am sure the key lies in the diet of the animals.
   Maybe they aren't allowed to graze any more on lush meadows so their
   gut crumbles...
   While looking for alternatives (I'm now all fishing line) I recently
   stumbled upon some obvious yet never mentioned alternative I have yet
   to try.
   People other than musicians are desperately trying to recreate a gut
   feel to their gear - tennis and badminton players!
   There are several brands of synthetic gut, though they only offer a
   narrow range of gauges - around 1mm for tennis and 0.6 for badminton.
   Mimmo, do you have insight in synthetic tennis gut? Maybe those
   manufacturers have a suitable approach for musical strings without
   knowing.
   Am 20.01.2018 um 13:13 schrieb spiffys84121:

Here's something I've been wondering for years. Haven't gut
 strings
always been made, even up until and after ww2 when nylon was
 first
used? Isn't it a continuous tradition going back to ancient
 times? Is
there a gap in our knowledge of how the strings were once made?
 Harps
for instance have always used gut strings.
Sterling
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message 
From: Mimmo - Aquila Corde Armoniche
 <[4]mperu...@aquilacorde.com>
Date: 1/20/18 1:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Lute List <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: String tech
(Well. Sorry for the long post but I think than many can be
 interested
)
Many thinks that the 1st lute strings of the past were better:
 the only
source I know that testifies that is Baron (1727).
He wrote that  there are instances were a roman 1st last till 4
 weeks.
Well,  many of the surviving lutes(5 course guitars (in mean
 those not
modified whose the original pitch standard can be supposed. They
 are:
the 13 course german baroque lutes, 5 course french guitars,
 venetian
lutes of 56-58 cms scale: 'mezzo punto' venetian pitch) has their
working index ranging from 225 to 235 Hz/mt.
Considering that on the graphic stress/strain, a thin gut string
 stop
to stretch around 2-3 semitone before the breakage (Daniello
 Bartoli
1678: 'a string breaks when it cannot stretch furthermore'), I
 come  to
the conlusion that the lute/guitar 1st strings of the past had
 the same
breaking point of those made today, i.e. 34-39 Kg/mm2.
Instead, their lifetime was probably  longer.
Well guys, generally speaking, I agree to what  Ed wrote.
However I would like to point out that, a few years ago, I was
 very
luky to obtain by chance a few gut strings .38-.46 mm gauge
 (beef)
whose breaking index was of 310 Hz mt (!) and the lifetime around
 2
months (Lynda Sayce, Caludia Caffagni feedbacks): no vernish,
 glue or
superficial coatings were employed: they were just rectified by
uncenterless machine and then oliled.
This is what happend to me.
I am pretty sure that potentially we stringmakers can reach a
 similar
goal even with lamb gut.
Unfortunately I was not ables to do the job again:  the raw gut
 ribbons
must have some critical features that are not commonly available
 today.
In fact I was not ables to have that kind of gut again. That's
 pity.
I remember that I have done a short article on the UK lute
 society.
I have another thing to say: A. Kirker (rome 1650) wrote that the
 lute
1st strings were made from 1 unsplit lamb gut. Well, I was always
skeptical on this subject (Kirker was not a stringmaker). Well,
 a few
months ago I was ables to make a 1st string starting from a
 single thin
mongolian lamb gut and it was an amazing experience:  I polished
 the
string in gentle way by hand; the final gauge was .40, the string
 was
even on its whole length;  the breaking point was around 35
 Kg/mm2. In
practice it breaks to A note on my lute of 61 cms. The sound was
 so
beautiful. I had no time to verify the lifetime. Again: i am
 fightring
to have more of that gut buti t is not easy; the diameter of ther
 gut
do not meet the necessity for sausages so

[LUTE] Re: left hand exercise

[John Mardinly]

   Before I retired, when I worked at Arizona State University, I spent a
   fair amount of time walking around campus and always carried hand
   exercise equipment that I could use while walking. However, it is a
   poor substitute to actually practicing.

   This one for squeezing:

   [1]https://www.amazon.com/Pack-Strengthener-Finger-Gripper-Grippers/dp/
   B01MXHXSNP/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8=8-9=hand+exercise
   r

   This one foe extending fingers:

   [2]https://www.amazon.com/FlexEx-Hand-Exerciser-Triple-Pack/dp/B00597E3
   QG/ref=pd_sbs_200_41?_encoding=UTF8_rd_i�0597E3QG_rd_r�X566NJN0FF
   JFEZANBE_rd_w=BOv8Q_rd_wgibQv=1�X566NJN0FFJFEZANBE

   You could also use these for hiking, train rides, etc. But again it is
   a poor substitute to actually practicing, but when you can't actually
   practice or do anything else worthwhile, I suppose it has some benefit.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 6, 2018, at 10:12 AM, Jurgen Frenz
   <[3]eye-and-ear-cont...@protonmail.com> wrote:

 Thank you for sharing. Yes technical exercises is not everybody's
 approach. But I do think that _A LITTLE_ of it every day surely is
 beneficial.
 Best
 Jurgen
 --
 "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."
 JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi
  Original Message 
 Subject: [LUTE] left hand exercise
 Local Time: 6 January 2018 10:27 PM
 UTC Time: 6 January 2018 15:27
 From: [4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 To: lutelist Net <[5]Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 As said before, I'm not much into exercises on the lute, lifting wine
 glasses and turning pages is about as sporty as it goes for me, but I
 currently have an on-line pupil who likes to have some. I made her
 this, beneficial for left-hand posture, slurs, ornaments, keeping
 fingers close to the fingerboard, killing time and feeling good about
 doing workout without having to go to the gym:
 [1][1][6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.b
   e_ZulNNDwYK08=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=
   VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B
   4sae98PSdoDXMbngpU=3yib-u9wxrm98JzyKK5SnDnvAEp3gWL_ShEz9EOhKVA=
 Ideally to be played in any key you can think of, singing along with
 the right note names, and in any rhythm you feel is today's rhythm.
 David
   __
 David van Ooijen
 [2][7]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 [3][2][8]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   __
 References
  1.
   [3][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_Zul
   NNDwYK08=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8
   OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B4sae9
   8PSdoDXMbngpU=3yib-u9wxrm98JzyKK5SnDnvAEp3gWL_ShEz9EOhKVA=
  2. [4][10]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  3.
   [5][11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.davidvan
   ooijen.nl_=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLP
   J8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B4sa
   e98PSdoDXMbngpU=Ts0YqQi3MIfHWlWyBM5bgMA0dRLO5OTKQ2LfaCpaexg=
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [6][12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs
   .dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SR
   Qusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBR
   t90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B4sae98PSdoDXMbngpU=hl3uwp-ODsRuZMB0pu
   -E_ko9duvtANUDfDZO27sAz8M=
   References
 1.
   [13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_ZulNN
   DwYK08=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE
   -c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B4sae98P
   SdoDXMbngpU=3yib-u9wxrm98JzyKK5SnDnvAEp3gWL_ShEz9EOhKVA=
 2.
   [14]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.davidvanooi
   jen.nl_=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8O
   E-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B4sae98
   PSdoDXMbngpU=Ts0YqQi3MIfHWlWyBM5bgMA0dRLO5OTKQ2LfaCpaexg=
 3.
   [15]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__youtu.be_ZulNN
   DwYK08=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE
   -c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B4sae98P
   SdoDXMbngpU=3yib-u9wxrm98JzyKK5SnDnvAEp3gWL_ShEz9EOhKVA=
 4. [16]mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
 5.
   [17]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.davidvanooi
   jen.nl_=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8O
   E-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=MKMfZpnQBDkJaANvZes-Myj-B4sae98
   PSdoDXMbngpU=Ts0YqQi3MIfHWlWyBM5bgMA0dRLO5OTKQ2LfaCpaexg

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[John Mardinly]

   I played my lute at a hospice once. Went over like a lead balloon.
   Classical guitar was better received.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 4, 2018, at 2:38 PM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   My proposition would be the following:
   Assemble a team: three lutists minimum!
   If possible, add recorders, Renaissance guitar, cittern etc., a dulcian
   and a trombone, and for the sake of beats some Renaissance percussion.
   If you have a portable organ, get it on stage.
   Go to your local jazz club and pitch "Early Music Jazz Jam Session".
   When playing, have the musicians occupy the functions of respective
   jazz musicians.
   Jam the hell out of Passamezzi, Romanescas, Bergamascas etc., throw in
   some song standards like Vestiva I Colli or Can She Excuse, do virtuoso
   solos. I bet the audience will have fun.
   Get that stick out of your spine and rock the venue.
   Am 04.01.2018 um 20:52 schrieb
   [2]theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu:

Having friends in psychology, economics, and
 marketing/advertising, we
have had this discussion over beer. And the general conclusion
 was that
most artists (including early music artists) ought not be
 lamenting
about why people don't show up to appreciate their art, but
 rather they
should be discussing how best to draw in an audience. Think about
 it,
if a graphic artist wants to put on an exhibit, they will
 bringing
alcohol, maybe food, hire a musician, and create an inviting
 atmosphere
for socializing. Moreover, symphony orchestras also have this
 problem
and their partial (yet successful) solution are the multimedia
programs; live performance of film music over film clips of Harry
Potter, Star Wars, etc.
The fact (sad or not) is that audiences have MANY distractions
 pulling
their attention nowadays. Music alone, no matter how pure or
inspirational, won't draw an audience as much as music PLUS
 something
else - drama or a story, visuals, alcohol, dance, etc. I think it
 would
behoove early music artists to start thinking about this and
corroborating and creating more engaging programs. And there are
successful examples of this out there, but there needs to be
 more.
One more thing, I am also reminded of a program done years ago by
Steven Wade (?) called 'Banjo Dancing' (?). He performed as one
 man
with a banjo. He played, told stories, sang, and had a truly
 engaging
performance. And it drew audiences. There is absolutely no reason
 why
something similar couldn't be done by a lutenist given some
 talent and
hard work in creating such a stage performance. And as a
 disclaimer, I
am not a professional musician, so these are merely my opinions,
looking in from the outside.
--
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=zLSUUnLA-CM0h9CGL2p3ZcEQaIF66KbYX69O72O_gzE=FzgyZfw29MD4UirX
 a5aFHV6UuLzftDiQdgDXANkxjnU=

   --

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. mailto:theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=zLSUUnLA-CM0h9CGL2p3ZcEQaIF66KbYX69O72O_gzE=FzgyZfw29MD4UirXa5aFHV6UuLzftDiQdgDXANkxjnU=

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[John Mardinly]

   The bad news here is that Tristan was absolutely correct.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 3, 2018, at 7:25 PM, Roger Landes <[1]landesro...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   Tristan von Neumann:
   Was this message meant to be private?  If it was then you owe all the
   members of this list an apology. But if you intended it to go to the
   entire list you should be banished by the the list administrators.
   Roger Landes
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.rogerlandes.
   com=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_
   C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=fDacMx83I7a-3M8DVn9J4YIA6X7fufvLmxK
   a3YkOJm0=kzWqRyEaXaLu4FmBSDLHjEGKGyVhzgOP_ZW-7qJPz7M=
   On 1/3/2018 8:16 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

 Dumb people don't just get smart with the "right government", my
 friend...
 Your whole system is rotten, and believe you me, even some third
 party candidates would not have been able to make the great purge
 happen.
 Am 03.01.2018 um 19:51 schrieb John Mardinly:

 America, being in the throes of "Make America Great Again", is
 unfortunately in general hostile to any music that requires more
 than
 two brain cells to appreciate. Fortunately, there are some
     exceptions.
 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
 Francisco Goya
 On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Ron Andrico
 <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
   Thank you for your New Year's greeting, Tristan.
   Much as I would wish the US early music scene to be otherwise,
 it is
   for the most part not what might be characterized as informal,
 inviting
   nor inclusive.  While there are a few soloists and ensembles
 attempting
   to perform in less traditional venues, the attempts are not
 really
   successful.  Ronn McFarlane did in fact play in a bar in
 Cleveland
   once.  I had lunch with him the following day and he reported
 that
   there were 10 people in attendance.
   I have written about this at some length and will continue to
 do so,
   but the early music scene in the US really caters to
   sit-down-and-shut-up audiences who are encouraged to
 participate in
   some weird fan worship culture.  There are a few exceptions,
 and
   Mignarda is definitely among the exceptions.  We make it a
 point to
   seek out non-traditional audiences, and we have deliberately
 been
   performing in a variety of smaller venues, restaurants, coffee
 shops,
   libraries and in house concert settings for most of our 15
 years as a
   duo.  We also perform in churches and the usual larger venues,
 but we
   like having contact with our audiences.
   I am of the opinion that early music will die out with the
 rapidly
   ageing baby-boom generation unless more of an effort is made
 on the
   part of performers to connect with people of all ages and
 backgrounds
   and encourage informal ensemble playing.  In the coming year,
 we will
   be initiating a series of local informal gatherings where
 amateurs
 and
   professionals can connect and share a love of making ensemble
 music.
   Wish us luck.
   RA
 __
   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
 behalf
   of Tristan von Neumann <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
   Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:41 PM
   To: lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Early Music life
   Happy New Year to all who are on the European calendar.
   Here's one question - is there any noticeable Early Music life
 going
 on
   in your neighborhood, besides the 19th/20th century concert
 context
   (which I always find a bit awkward)?
   Ever heard of a bar where there are Early Music jam sessions?
   Have you ever seen Early music picknicks in the park or in the
 woods?
   Do you play table music at your own private dinner parties?
   To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dar
 t
 mouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQu
 sp9
 vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt9
 0E&
 m=QKQkBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l6
 6D2
 VPOwiacK-Qk090pfM33w=
   [2]Lute Mail list technical information
   [6]www.cs.dartmouth.edu
   How do I ge

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[John Mardinly]

   Pessimist alert: I just got a "Google Home", and after linking it to
   Pandora, all I have to do is speak "OK Google, play Renaissance Music",
   and it starts playing an excellent stream of wonderful Renaissance
   Music. Incredible!

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

 Thank you for your New Year's greeting, Tristan.
 Much as I would wish the US early music scene to be otherwise, it is
 for the most part not what might be characterized as informal,
   inviting
 nor inclusive.  While there are a few soloists and ensembles
   attempting
 to perform in less traditional venues, the attempts are not really
 successful.  Ronn McFarlane did in fact play in a bar in Cleveland
 once.  I had lunch with him the following day and he reported that
 there were 10 people in attendance.
 I have written about this at some length and will continue to do so,
 but the early music scene in the US really caters to
 sit-down-and-shut-up audiences who are encouraged to participate in
 some weird fan worship culture.  There are a few exceptions, and
 Mignarda is definitely among the exceptions.  We make it a point to
 seek out non-traditional audiences, and we have deliberately been
 performing in a variety of smaller venues, restaurants, coffee shops,
 libraries and in house concert settings for most of our 15 years as a
 duo.  We also perform in churches and the usual larger venues, but we
 like having contact with our audiences.
 I am of the opinion that early music will die out with the rapidly
 ageing baby-boom generation unless more of an effort is made on the
 part of performers to connect with people of all ages and backgrounds
 and encourage informal ensemble playing.  In the coming year, we will
 be initiating a series of local informal gatherings where amateurs
   and
 professionals can connect and share a love of making ensemble music.
 Wish us luck.
 RA
   __
 From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
 of Tristan von Neumann <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:41 PM
 To: lutelist Net
 Subject: [LUTE] Early Music life
 Happy New Year to all who are on the European calendar.
 Here's one question - is there any noticeable Early Music life going
   on
 in your neighborhood, besides the 19th/20th century concert context
 (which I always find a bit awkward)?
 Ever heard of a bar where there are Early Music jam sessions?
 Have you ever seen Early music picknicks in the park or in the woods?
 Do you play table music at your own private dinner parties?
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
   mouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9
   vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&
   m=QKQkBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2
   VPOwiacK-Qk090pfM33w=
 [2]Lute Mail list technical information
 [6]www.cs.dartmouth.edu
 How do I get on the lute mail list? To get on the mail list, send
   email
 with a Subject: of "subscribe" to [7]lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   and
 your name will be added to ...
 --
   References
 1.
   [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=QKQ
   kBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2VPOwi
   acK-Qk090pfM33w=
 2.
   [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=QKQ
   kBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2VPOwi
   acK-Qk090pfM33w=

References

   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=QKQkBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2VPOwiacK-Qk090pfM33w=
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
   7. mailto:lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZ

[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[John Mardinly]

   America, being in the throes of "Make America Great Again", is
   unfortunately in general hostile to any music that requires more than
   two brain cells to appreciate. Fortunately, there are some exceptions.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Jan 3, 2018, at 9:32 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

 Thank you for your New Year's greeting, Tristan.
 Much as I would wish the US early music scene to be otherwise, it is
 for the most part not what might be characterized as informal,
   inviting
 nor inclusive.  While there are a few soloists and ensembles
   attempting
 to perform in less traditional venues, the attempts are not really
 successful.  Ronn McFarlane did in fact play in a bar in Cleveland
 once.  I had lunch with him the following day and he reported that
 there were 10 people in attendance.
 I have written about this at some length and will continue to do so,
 but the early music scene in the US really caters to
 sit-down-and-shut-up audiences who are encouraged to participate in
 some weird fan worship culture.  There are a few exceptions, and
 Mignarda is definitely among the exceptions.  We make it a point to
 seek out non-traditional audiences, and we have deliberately been
 performing in a variety of smaller venues, restaurants, coffee shops,
 libraries and in house concert settings for most of our 15 years as a
 duo.  We also perform in churches and the usual larger venues, but we
 like having contact with our audiences.
 I am of the opinion that early music will die out with the rapidly
 ageing baby-boom generation unless more of an effort is made on the
 part of performers to connect with people of all ages and backgrounds
 and encourage informal ensemble playing.  In the coming year, we will
 be initiating a series of local informal gatherings where amateurs
   and
 professionals can connect and share a love of making ensemble music.
 Wish us luck.
 RA
   __
 From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf
 of Tristan von Neumann <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
 Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 1:41 PM
 To: lutelist Net
 Subject: [LUTE] Early Music life
 Happy New Year to all who are on the European calendar.
 Here's one question - is there any noticeable Early Music life going
   on
 in your neighborhood, besides the 19th/20th century concert context
 (which I always find a bit awkward)?
 Ever heard of a bar where there are Early Music jam sessions?
 Have you ever seen Early music picknicks in the park or in the woods?
 Do you play table music at your own private dinner parties?
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dart
   mouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9
   vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E&
   m=QKQkBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2
   VPOwiacK-Qk090pfM33w=
 [2]Lute Mail list technical information
 [6]www.cs.dartmouth.edu
 How do I get on the lute mail list? To get on the mail list, send
   email
 with a Subject: of "subscribe" to [7]lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   and
 your name will be added to ...
 --
   References
 1.
   [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=QKQ
   kBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2VPOwi
   acK-Qk090pfM33w=
 2.
   [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=QKQ
   kBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2VPOwi
   acK-Qk090pfM33w=

References

   1. mailto:praelu...@hotmail.com
   2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=QKQkBULSF-JVeL5jAEzAZwrkhRVVOZKSSXqTGmAzBLk=VbCh6jEi0jZP2iVsY4l66D2VPOwiacK-Qk090pfM33w=
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/
   7. mailto:lute-requ...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   8. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Q

[LUTE] Re: New music

[John Mardinly]

   Beautiful!

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Dec 21, 2017, at 4:10 PM, Daniel Shoskes <[1]kidneykut...@gmail.com>
   wrote:

   I highly recommend it. I commissioned a work from Ronn McFarlane and I
   think it's one of his most beautiful:
   [2]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com
   _watch-3Fv-3DiYgAAyMtgtE=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jIn
   uKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Emuo5qxLmFU3e8
   JU82bUbNbz1olJ6JOPsYMQ3UVCixs=SuS2oqddco_A2raid7PX1eKBopY0A844W31YO6P
   E6wo=
   <[3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.co
   m_watch-3Fv-3DiYgAAyMtgtE=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jI
   nuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Emuo5qxLmFU3e
   8JU82bUbNbz1olJ6JOPsYMQ3UVCixs=SuS2oqddco_A2raid7PX1eKBopY0A844W31YO6
   PE6wo=>
   Ronn playing it live:
   [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com
   _watch-3Fv-3DCz3j5muuVKc=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jIn
   uKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Emuo5qxLmFU3e8
   JU82bUbNbz1olJ6JOPsYMQ3UVCixs=FI7_itzSbo8rREudbeHjGblw3WUhN-2NV404fQ8
   5xMQ=
   <[5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.co
   m_watch-3Fv-3DCz3j5muuVKc=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jI
   nuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Emuo5qxLmFU3e
   8JU82bUbNbz1olJ6JOPsYMQ3UVCixs=FI7_itzSbo8rREudbeHjGblw3WUhN-2NV404fQ
   85xMQ=>
   Recording:
   [6]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__itunes.apple.co
   m_us_album_passacaglia_878859427-3Fi-3D878859469=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV2
   9SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZO
   NBRt90E=Emuo5qxLmFU3e8JU82bUbNbz1olJ6JOPsYMQ3UVCixs=QVqbIK-CcOlS8VI
   mkdtxlj2AV_yRjYUsTGSOek8JhZQ=
   <[7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__itunes.apple.c
   om_us_album_passacaglia_878859427-3Fi-3D878859469=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV
   29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZ
   ONBRt90E=Emuo5qxLmFU3e8JU82bUbNbz1olJ6JOPsYMQ3UVCixs=QVqbIK-CcOlS8V
   Imkdtxlj2AV_yRjYUsTGSOek8JhZQ=>
   Also commissioned a version of Adon Olam from Rene Schiffer that is in
   the form of a passacaglia with a theorbo part.
   Let's keep them gainfully employed!
   Danny

 On Dec 21, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Jacob Johnson
 <[8]tmrguitar...@gmail.com> wrote:
   I don't think that's entirely accurate. Ronn McFarlane plays his
 own
  compositions, Jakob Lindberg performs the Britten Nocturnal (I
 know,
  it's not that new, and it's not really for lute, but IMO it kinda
  counts), Chris Wilke recorded a whole cd of Roman Turovsky's new
 works
  for baroque lute, I saw Elizabeth Kenny perform TWO recent theorbo
  commissions at the LuteFestWest, and there's certainly more
 examples I
  just can't think of at the moment.
  As soon as I can afford to do so, I intend to commission some works
 for
  myself to play.
  Jacob Johnson
  [uc?export=downloadid6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQrevid6_g
  M3BRE6ZraW9nQ2U4SGNwV0tYVWxobnNBVjBsZi9FNHhzPQ]
  Guitar/Lute
  [1][9]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com
  469.237.0625.
  On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Christopher Stetson
  <[2][10]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
   Hello all.
   An interesting question, Peter, thanks for bringing it up.
 To
answer
   honestly and personally, I'm not especially interested in new
music,
   per se, for any of the instruments I play (mainly lute,
 guitar,
   mandolin, but some others too).I couldn't really say why,
except
   that the music I've looked at from the last 30 years tends,
 and I
mean
   tends, to be difficult and not especially tuneful to my ear.
There
   are exceptions, of course, and I play some of those, though
mostly on
   guitar.I'm not a professional, so I tend to be fairly
conservstive
   in the music I choose to spend time seeking out and playing.
   I
also
   don't play many of the old compositions that fit the above
criteria.
   I fully realize. however,that one person's difficult is
another
   person's interesting, and I'm really glad that people are
 writing
new
   music for lute.
   Best to all, and keep playing,
   Chris.
 On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Peter Martin
  <[1][3][11]peter.l...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
  Hello all,
  I recently bought a Wigmore Hall Live CD of a 2013 concert
 by
  countertenor Iestyn Davies and lutenist Thomas Dunford.
  It
   included
  the world premiere performance of a substantial piece by
 Nico
   Muhly
  called

[LUTE] Re: Chromatic lute works

[John Mardinly]

Forlorne Hope and Farwell by Dowland?

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

Francisco Goya



> On Dec 17, 2017, at 8:06 AM, Edward Martin <edvihuel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Yes there is a contemporary tablature of BWV 997, but the fuga and
>   double to the gigue are omitted!   So, you are correct, Mathias!
> 
>   On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 4:58 AM, [1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
>   <[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>__
>  Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
>  --- Original-Nachricht ---
>  Von: [3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de
>  Betreff: Re: Chromatic lute works
>  Datum: 17.12.2017, 11:57 Uhr
>  An: Baroque Lute Net
>  Is there a contemporary lute tablature of BWV 997? I was thinking
>   the
>  initial post asked for tablatures.
>  Mathias
>__
>  Gesendet mit der [2]Telekom Mail App
>  --- Original-Nachricht ---
>  Von: G. C.
>  Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Chromatic lute works
>  Datum: 17.12.2017, 11:46 Uhr
>  An: Liuto Internazionale
>  Yes, how could one have forgotten BWV 997 :)
>  Thanks Ed!
>  G.
>  On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Edward Martin
>  <[1]edvihuela12@[3][4]gmail.com>; wrote:
>  Capriccio Chromatico by Pietro Paolo Melij
>  I am surprised nobody listed the fugue in c minor by JS Bach, BWV
>  997
>  --
>  References
>  1. mailto:[5]edvihuela12@[4][6]gmail.com
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  
> [5][7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=VxFxV7babvB9sh0a1SXnu1CXG3YipFef-xdENB3cNdM=
>  --
>   References
>  1. 
> [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.t-2Donline.de_service_redir_email-5Fapp-5F=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=OEIhsd5kranP0vAgwha2jdaR0PMc2ckscoLOAt8FhXY=
>   android_sendmail_footer.htm
>  2. 
> [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.t-2Donline.de_service_redir_email-5Fapp-5F=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=OEIhsd5kranP0vAgwha2jdaR0PMc2ckscoLOAt8FhXY=
>   android_sendmail_footer.htm
>  3. 
> [10]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gmail.com=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=94b5DSNZADSlq-zJcRuhmLL1-EsbGCFIDx704nL4RsE=>/
>  4. 
> [11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gmail.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=UttH02bp1lRhPB2QR2xLdiBroTHEImdJ3ZsSgg6k-YQ=
>  5. 
> [12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=VxFxV7babvB9sh0a1SXnu1CXG3YipFef-xdENB3cNdM=
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
>   2. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
>   3. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
>   4. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gmail.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=UttH02bp1lRhPB2QR2xLdiBroTHEImdJ3ZsSgg6k-YQ=
>   5. mailto:edvihuela12@
>   6. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gmail.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=UttH02bp1lRhPB2QR2xLdiBroTHEImdJ3ZsSgg6k-YQ=
>   7. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=VxFxV7babvB9sh0a1SXnu1CXG3YipFef-xdENB3cNdM=
>   8. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.t-2Donline.de_service_redir_email-5Fapp-5Fandroid-5Fsendmail-5Ffooter.htm=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=kJURv3jCidsitoU9RELFl1JzJFLbDwf3-0Kv5LJ9QGM=4AqIM5ZBhUmEhIholgDMEiR2JvcXLL8XjTOhebIPaGc=

[LUTE] Re: unwound Synthetic CD basses for long diapasons: make it sense?

[John Mardinly]

   Don't be a fascist. Let people use the strings they want.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Dec 4, 2017, at 12:50 PM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
   <[1]fournier...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi Mimmo
 Totally agree with you.   I don,t see the point in playing archlute
   and
 theorbo if its to make it sound as loud as and electric guitar. the
 loaded strings work well for regular lutes. The whole point of the
 loaded nylgut is to try and reproduce the sound of a gut string that
 would have possibly been loaded for the short necks.
 Bruno
 2017-12-04 3:07 GMT-05:00 Mimmo - Aquila Corde Armoniche
 <[1][2]mperu...@aquilacorde.com>:
   Hello,
   Some are telling me to produce longer CD strings for the long
   theorbo diapasons.
   Actually, I have some strong doubts: the tonal balance with the
   fretted strings will became even worse; the sound, in general, will
   became too bright and 'modern'.
   The risk is that we will lost the sense of the 'fondamento', whose
   sound should imitate the human voice and be dark, not too
   brilliant.
   I know: many performers already uses long wound strings; at the
   same
   time we know that the extended necks were introduced to accomodate
   plain gut strings, not for denser gut/synthetic version of it or
   even wound strings.
   Actually, I would like to stay in the direction that can make of
   support of the traditional Lute/theorbo sound, not in the direction
   to destroy it making a sort of... elettric chitarrone (Lol).
   Maybe things can be different if we are specking of these special
   kind of invented short neck theorboes   that are today whidely in
   use when one must take a fly. We know how hard is to fly with a
   standard theorbo.
   These instruments has only an option that work: wound strings.
   Making a longer CD for this kind of instruments can be maybe a good
   option?
   Maybe making them of 1,40 cms max so one cannot install them on the
   'real' theorboes...
   Guys, which is you opinion?
   Mimmo Peruffo
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2][3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.da
   rtmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQus
   p9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90
   E=5QyKWBDPwQwSjpPw7i_Lv4djb1Jwuddbm4Gqb0h-t30=4TNA5TQaMkWvIOzioAVGc
   8r8phUSgV3RajUycqj-oqA=
 --
   References
 1. [4]mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com
 2.
   [5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5Qy
   KWBDPwQwSjpPw7i_Lv4djb1Jwuddbm4Gqb0h-t30=4TNA5TQaMkWvIOzioAVGc8r8phUS
   gV3RajUycqj-oqA=

References

   1. mailto:fournier...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5QyKWBDPwQwSjpPw7i_Lv4djb1Jwuddbm4Gqb0h-t30=4TNA5TQaMkWvIOzioAVGc8r8phUSgV3RajUycqj-oqA=
   4. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com
   5. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=5QyKWBDPwQwSjpPw7i_Lv4djb1Jwuddbm4Gqb0h-t30=4TNA5TQaMkWvIOzioAVGc8r8phUSgV3RajUycqj-oqA=

[LUTE] Re: Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire

[John Mardinly]

   A second for Molinaro, but what about Dowland, Byrd and Holborne,
   especially now that Holborne is the ONLY renaissance composer to make
   it to interstellar space! (Fairie Rownde is on the Golden Record aboard
   the Voyager spacecraft, now 12 billion miles from earth, traveling at
   38,000 miles per hour.)

   [1]https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/golden-record/whats-on-the-record/music
   /

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   On Dec 4, 2017, at 4:24 PM, Dan Winheld <[2]dwinh...@lmi.net> wrote:

   All good faves so far. The ones I love & and haven't been named yet
   are  Simone Molinaro and his uncle Giovanni Battista dalla Gostena.
   Fantasias of Terzi'really aren't all that daunting if you approach them
   calmly, without fear, and go slowly at first. Same can be said in
   regard to Albert de Rippe. And let's not forget Giacomo Gorzanis. Some
   repetitiveness and a little sloppy here and there, but when he rocks he
   rocks.  And, painful or not, Mel Newsidler is well worth the effort.
   Even if one can't get his most challenging ball-breakers up to speed,
   it will improve your range & grasp of fingering to work his stuff
   seriously.
   And one of our most prolific composers, the man (or woman) of a
   thousand faces and more than human lifespan- Anonymous!
   On 12/4/2017 1:54 PM, Sean Smith wrote:

 I'm currently partial to the intabulators who took on the work of
 Archadelt. There's Vindella's all Acadelt book (1546), the many
 variations of "Quand'io pens'al martir" and even the chansons for
 voice and renaissance guitar (A. LeRoy, Cinqiesme Livre). And
 Crecquillon, non Papa, Pathie, deRore, Lasso and ….
 .. who am I kidding? I enjoy most all the vocal pieces set for lute.
 Ok, all the ones I can play, anyway. Phalese ('63, '68) and Paladin
 sometimes stay on the stand for months.
 Sean
 ps, Tristan, there's a nice Pathie set by the mysterious B.M. in
 Siena.

 On Dec 4, 2017, at 12:18 PM, Tristan von Neumann
 <[3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
 Here's a poll for Renaissance Lutists -
 what do you consider most rewarding to play in terms of playability
 combined with beauty?
 So far, I love Francesco da Milano and most anonymous pieces from
 the Siena Ms., they never get tiresome and lie gently on the hands.
 Also Hans Neusiedler and Luis Milan.
 Not in this category: Albert de Rippe. Amazing music, but honestly,
 did this guy have six fingers on each hand??
 What are your favourites? Is there any obscure repertoire to
 discover?
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
 uth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp
 9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt
 90E=Z43YL-Th1Q3TQfDu132TNeosYKe8r_wES7jqa7LuBKM=nuUCMe5Vi2aGppOQ
 WetWW5J6blV980gYn7zGeKkDpBc=

References

   1. https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/golden-record/whats-on-the-record/music/
   2. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net
   3. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=Z43YL-Th1Q3TQfDu132TNeosYKe8r_wES7jqa7LuBKM=nuUCMe5Vi2aGppOQWetWW5J6blV980gYn7zGeKkDpBc=

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[John Mardinly]

   But it IS a non-fact based conspiracy site.

   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya

   On Nov 13, 2017, at 9:33 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   Just to set the record straight, the Corbett Report is not at all
   right-wing, it's Libertarian if anything.  I subscribe to neither
   approach.  I have an open and inquiring mind.
 __

   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf of John Mardinly <[4]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:20 PM
   To: Ron Andrico
   Cc: David; [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

   The Corbett Report is a right wing conspiracy site, probably the last
   thing we need posted on a listserver dedicated to lute.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya
   > On Nov 13, 2017, at 7:30 AM, Ron Andrico <[6]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:
   >
   >   Thank you, David, for your helpful comments.  As one who has
   suffered
   >   from chronic inflammation in both hands, I agree wholeheartedly
   with
   >   your observation that healing takes a great deal of time, and that
   our
   >   ancestors must have had the same problems.
   >
   >   Modern medicine has its place, but the traditional approach that
   takes
   >   into account thousands of years of our cumulative understanding of
   >   physiology and the causes of disease and disability deserves wider
   >   recognition and greater acceptance.  A fascinating look at how
   modern
   >   pharmacological medical practices have aggressively sought to
   displace
   >   traditional medicine can be seen in this important video:
   >
   >
   [1][7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.corbettr
   eport.com_-3Fs-3Drockefeller-2Bmedicine=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9v
   YR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E
   =O4h62KngbA3GWpVk4m3_BgGWJ8x8r9bzcdAfv77NRGk=omxVjrwBI5BZyO6awN_No6LN
   WKNAWjJBvxnsFDtOORU=
   >   RA
   >
   __
   >
   >   From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[9]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   on behalf
   >   of David <[10]da...@indiana-om.com>
   >   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:19 AM
   >   To: [11]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   >   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.
   >
   >   --F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
   >   Content-Type: text/plain;
   >charset=utf-8
   >   Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   >   Hi all -
   >   This is my first time posting in one of these threads, but I wanted
   to
   >   add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
   >   Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I am a doctor
   of
   >   Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as well as
   >   massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington, IN,
   where
   >   I treat not infrequently both students and faculty of the Jacobs
   School
   >   of Music here at Indiana University for "overuse" injuries.
   >   Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is that we do
   have
   >   small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull the fingers
   >   together (like for a military salute), and these may be complaining
   due
   >   to overuse. However, the biggest challenge to regaining facility on
   the
   >   lute is that the ligaments between the fingers will have to
   stretch.
   >   Tensions and ligaments don't have their own blood supply, and make
   >   changes (including healing) very, VERY gradually. To rush this
   process
   >   is to court long-term problems. (And as much as we like to think we
   are
   >   learning a great deal about techniques and strategies from 400
   years
   >   ago, we can't know how many gifted lutenists of several centuries
   back
   >   either had to give up their instruments or play in significant pain
   due
   >   to overuse injuries.)
   >   The second thing is that almost all our activity in this age is
   limited
   >   to very small ranges of motion: driving a car, typing on the
   computer,
   >   etc. We were designed to throw spears, jump rivers, and climb
   trees.
   >   Our miniscule movements, without any broader movements, stress our
   >   fine-motor structures, and cause injury. It is only a slight
   >   oversimplification to say that our primary need in being able to
   play
   >   lute without pain is to exercise our whole bodies in such a way as
   to
   >   strengthen our cores, then to pay attention to the signals our
   bodies
   >   send to us.
   >   Tai ji, Qi Gong, and yoga 

[LUTE] Re: Bad Beethoven hearing

[John Mardinly]

There is much documentation of an autopsy done by a Dr. Dr. Johann Wagner on 27 
March 1827, and his report is readily available:
Just Google “Beethoven Autopsy” for a bounteous selection of articles 
summarizing the autopsy and what conclusions may or may not be drawn from it. 
It is interesting reading.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya



> On Nov 12, 2017, at 6:27 PM, howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Nov 12, 2017, at 11:03 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Of course, there is that other widely held theory that Beethoven suffered 
>> from syphilus, which in it’s tertiary stage can cause all sorts of 
>> neurological and physical degeneration. Beethoven, like Schubert, frequently 
>> visited prostitutes,
> 
> The Beethoven-prostitute angle is another pseudobiographical tidbit for which 
> there is no actual evidence, much as it gets bandied about by authors who add 
> two and two and get six.  A rather more interesting theory is that Beethoven 
> suffered from congenital syphilis, acquired from his father.  There’s no real 
> evidence to support this either (other than B’s symptoms appearing in his 
> twenties, which is typical of congenital syphilis), but nobody has any 
> problem believing anything bad about B’s dad.
> 
> Here’s a succinct refutation of the syphilis theory from Francois Mai:
> 
> "Beethoven did NOT die of syphilis. People who die of syphilis have changes 
> in their heart, arteries and brain. At Beethoven's autopsy these organs were 
> normal. There were major changes in his liver, spleen and kidneys consistent 
> with cirrhosis, likely alcoholic in origin. See my book "Diagnosing Genius: 
> The Life and Death of Beethoven" McGill-Queens UP 2007"
> 
>> which put them at high risk for contracting this infection. Schubert’s was 
>> diagnosed and treated with mercury, but he died shortly after being one of 
>> Beethoven’s pallbearers.
> 
> Yes, it was a very heavy casket.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=NUDjlBKCZaMWd_yqNtBwbfhRhbvYPG5cFcq0ifqATRw=TC2EscNSLprmWvelmvU3zITR-SVqMJUAApw_rBsv9GQ=

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[John Mardinly]

The Corbett Report is a right wing conspiracy site, probably the last thing we 
need posted on a listserver dedicated to lute.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.


The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya



> On Nov 13, 2017, at 7:30 AM, Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Thank you, David, for your helpful comments.  As one who has suffered
>   from chronic inflammation in both hands, I agree wholeheartedly with
>   your observation that healing takes a great deal of time, and that our
>   ancestors must have had the same problems.
> 
>   Modern medicine has its place, but the traditional approach that takes
>   into account thousands of years of our cumulative understanding of
>   physiology and the causes of disease and disability deserves wider
>   recognition and greater acceptance.  A fascinating look at how modern
>   pharmacological medical practices have aggressively sought to displace
>   traditional medicine can be seen in this important video:
> 
>   
> [1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.corbettreport.com_-3Fs-3Drockefeller-2Bmedicine=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=O4h62KngbA3GWpVk4m3_BgGWJ8x8r9bzcdAfv77NRGk=omxVjrwBI5BZyO6awN_No6LNWKNAWjJBvxnsFDtOORU=
>   RA
> __
> 
>   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf
>   of David <da...@indiana-om.com>
>   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:19 AM
>   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.
> 
>   --F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
>   Content-Type: text/plain;
>charset=utf-8
>   Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>   Hi all -
>   This is my first time posting in one of these threads, but I wanted to
>   add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
>   Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I am a doctor of
>   Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as well as
>   massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington, IN, where
>   I treat not infrequently both students and faculty of the Jacobs School
>   of Music here at Indiana University for "overuse" injuries.
>   Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is that we do have
>   small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull the fingers
>   together (like for a military salute), and these may be complaining due
>   to overuse. However, the biggest challenge to regaining facility on the
>   lute is that the ligaments between the fingers will have to stretch.
>   Tensions and ligaments don't have their own blood supply, and make
>   changes (including healing) very, VERY gradually. To rush this process
>   is to court long-term problems. (And as much as we like to think we are
>   learning a great deal about techniques and strategies from 400 years
>   ago, we can't know how many gifted lutenists of several centuries back
>   either had to give up their instruments or play in significant pain due
>   to overuse injuries.)
>   The second thing is that almost all our activity in this age is limited
>   to very small ranges of motion: driving a car, typing on the computer,
>   etc. We were designed to throw spears, jump rivers, and climb trees.
>   Our miniscule movements, without any broader movements, stress our
>   fine-motor structures, and cause injury. It is only a slight
>   oversimplification to say that our primary need in being able to play
>   lute without pain is to exercise our whole bodies in such a way as to
>   strengthen our cores, then to pay attention to the signals our bodies
>   send to us.
>   Tai ji, Qi Gong, and yoga are all great strategies for building that
>   core strength and range of motion. As for your hand(s), go gently, and
>   apply a good linement and combine rest with moderate massage to address
>   achy ligaments.
>   ⁣all the best,
>   David
>   --F58A74111488PI3NN6NKG4UP5SST4D
>   Content-Type: text/html;
>charset=utf-8
>   Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>   Hi all -
>   This is my first time posting in one of these threads,
>   but I wanted to add a couple thoughts to the discussion.
>   Permit me to give a little of my non-lute background: I
>   am a doctor of Chinese medicine (acupuncture and herbal medicine, as
>   well as massage/Qi Gong/tai ji, etc.), and am located in Bloomington,
>   IN, where I treat not infrequently both students and faculty of the
>   Jacobs School of Music here at Indiana University for "overuse"
>   injuries.
>   Two thoughts in particular come to mind. The first is
>   that we do have small muscles between the bones of the hand to pull

[LUTE] Re: Bad Beethoven hearing

[John Mardinly]

Of course, there is that other widely held theory that Beethoven suffered from 
syphilus, which in it’s tertiary stage can cause all sorts of neurological and 
physical degeneration. Beethoven, like Schubert, frequently visited 
prostitutes, which put them at high risk for contracting this infection. 
Schubert’s was diagnosed and treated with mercury, but he died shortly after 
being one of Beethoven’s pallbearers.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya



> On Nov 11, 2017, at 9:35 PM, howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Nov 11, 2017, at 10:44 AM, John Mardinly <john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> Beethoven’s deafness was caused by “inner ear” problems, sometimes called 
>> labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical problems, such as 
>> damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner ear. As such, it is 
>> unlikely that the bone conduction would have been any use to him. 
> 
> To be fair, there’s no way of knowing exactly what caused his deafness.  
> Otosclerosis, an ossification of the inner ear parts, is sometimes cited.  I 
> imagine bone conduction wouldn’t help that either.
> 
> He also had cranial nerves that were compressed by thick skull bones, a 
> finding consistent with Paget’s disease, which can cause deafness.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=mHP-aAGRoYdzVtLu9iMzyrfm-_Y4HzTPpmM-9_Riiq4=d9iW8v2UmuAF8h6QTy0cpRKxtMZi0oMeIize-E0HseM=

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

[John Mardinly]

Beethoven’s deafness was caused by “inner ear” problems, sometimes called 
labyrinthitis, a form of nerve deafness, not mechanical problems, such as 
damage to the eardrum or the small bones of the inner ear. As such, it is 
unlikely that the bone conduction would have been any use to him. 

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.




> On Nov 10, 2017, at 5:27 PM, howard posner <howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Nov 10, 2017, at 10:50 AM, G. C. <kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  According to Dan Brown in his newest book, "Origins", Beethoven was the
>>  inventor of "bone conduction technology", who upon going deaf,
>>  discovered that he could fix a metal rod to his piano, and bite down on
>>  it as he played, enabling him to hear perfectly, through vibrations in
>>  his jaw bone.
> 
> Take this with a grain of salt, especially when you see things like this one 
> on the Time Magazine website:
> 
> Interest in Beethoven’s hearing loss has long captivated his fans, 
> many of whom are fascinated by the tragic circumstances of a deaf 
> composer and the ways Beethoven managed to keep working even 
> after he completely lost his hearing by the time he was 45. As TIME 
> once described it, “by clenching a stick in his teeth, holding it against 
> the keyboard of his piano, he could discern faint sounds.”
> 
> I’ve never seen any reference to any evidence for anything like this.  Has 
> anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=XAd5dnGEKxTCDxtWP81_OkSN7GFzU2vnXU4QhxuI7oU=Btd8TqMsKFhk-qbydx4-AdWQqPVKtB-etle0bCxH5gY=

[LUTE] Re: Bad lute music

[John Mardinly]

ÓM4ì
6Ü>;à>øßa|Ð;ãN»ßNû®Ú²ç¸*'µéíO*^µìmþ™ZŠw!j»

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Physical Exercises for left hand.

[John Mardinly]

Anthony;
First, remember that there are no muscles in your fingers!. The other, 
is that you need to build up your practice regimen gradually. It is just as if 
you were a couch potato for 6 months, and tried to do a marathon with one 
week’s training. If your hand is protesting, listen to it! If your hand feels 
like it is beaten up, it probably IS beaten up. You can permanently damage your 
hand if you just keep on beating up your hand. This sort on injury is actually 
too common among competitive string players in conservatories. I personally 
experienced this 42 years ago when I stopped practicing for a semester due to a 
difficult engineering course load, and then tried to get it all back in four 
weeks (for a master class) by practicing 8 hours a day starting the day after 
my last final. I severely injured the tendons and joints in my hand (muscles 
were fine), such that I could not play for several YEARS. The injuries persist 
today, 42 years later. After visits to 25 doctors and many!
  other physical therapists and trainers, the best thing I have found is a long 
hot soak in warm water. At least an hour. I have read that pianist Van Cliburn 
used a similar treatment. For a string player, one should wear a thin (3mil) 
nitrile glove so that the callouses do not get dissolved.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist


> On Oct 1, 2017, at 1:21 PM, Anthony Hart <anthony.hart1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   Dear collective wisdom,
> 
>   I have been away from playing for many months and my left hand is
>   protesting! Does anyone have any suggestions for physical exercises to
>   relieve tension and relax muscles prior to practice? I need to do some
>   serious practice over the next few months.
> 
>   Many thanks
> 
>   Anthony
> 
>   --
> 
>   __
>   Anthony Hart  MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
>   Musicologist  and  Independent  Researcher
>   Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
>   Mob: +356 9944 9552.
>   e-mail:  [1]resea...@antoninoreggio.com; web:
>   [2]www.monsignor-reggio.com
>   NEW  Publications:  EDIZIONE  ANTONINO  REGGIO
>   -  [3]www.edizionear.com
>   for information and special offer
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:resea...@antoninoreggio.com
>   2. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.monsignor-2Dreggio.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=tf-gRQPLCA-98X6xhy8klg1gQ1H_TuStjBKTwh4ESvU=HTD5SKEwj_r8iKmEZOrpZC_ESrvL60nXdCcgBNXc27U=
>  
>   3. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.edizionear.com_=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=tf-gRQPLCA-98X6xhy8klg1gQ1H_TuStjBKTwh4ESvU=8HYTF9yYmGPdd4h_HpHRssPiL62WR3RS-gQUYHuiIh8=
>  
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=tf-gRQPLCA-98X6xhy8klg1gQ1H_TuStjBKTwh4ESvU=_w5ej4cP5WdQUE2SB7TTTJh1xIFwYTlRxucDTmwZxLY=
>  

[LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

[John Mardinly]

Ron;
Thank you for the informed comments. However, by the time you acquire 
Parallels or VmWare Fusion plus a copy of Windows, might it be cheaper and less 
hassle to just purchase a cheap laptop on Ebay, Craig’s list or whatever?

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist



> On Sep 29, 2017, at 7:18 AM, Ron Banks <ron.ba...@rwbanks.com> wrote:
> 
> Lynda,
> 
> I’m currently running both Fronimo 2.1 and 3.0 on my Mac and Linux (Ubuntu) 
> systems using Wine (version 2.0.1).  My Macs are running OS X El Capitan, but 
> I’ve also had success using Fronimo on OS X Yosemite.  Other Mac Fronimo 
> users might need to give their input on this, as I’m not really a Fronimo 
> power user. For my needs, it runs well enough.
> 
> The setup under Wine can be a little finicky, and may take some tweaking to 
> get things to run correctly - but if you’re persistent, it can be done.   If 
> you’re comfortable using the command line on your Mac, Wine is the cheapest 
> way to get Fronimo running.  There are some drawbacks to using Wine, as very 
> few Windows apps run flawlessly in Wine – it’s usually a hit-and-miss affair. 
>  If you’re not comfortable with the command line, there are a few “helper” 
> apps to get started, such as WineSkin, WineBottler, (and WineTricks on Linux) 
> that will allow you to tweak the Wine setup and application installation 
> using a graphical interface.
> 
> If you’ve got additional Windows programs to run, I’d suggest using either 
> VMware Fusion, Parallels, or Oracle VirtualBox to run Windows as a virtual 
> machine on your Mac.   The down-side of using a Virtual Machine, is that 
> you’ll need a licensed copy of Windows for the virtual machine.  Also, if 
> your Mac is an older laptop like mine (2010-2012), running VM sessions can 
> cause the laptop to run hotter than normal.  It will spin the hard drive and 
> fans up constantly, and the additional heat may exacerbate issues with the 
> GPU failures the older machines are prone to experience.  My Mac Pro doesn’t 
> have that problem.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Ron Banks
> 
> On 9/27/17, 10:51 PM, "Lynda Kraar" <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of 
> guitargirl4scrab...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
>Lute friends - 
>How do I run Fronimo on a Mac? 
>Thanks,
>Lynda
> 
> 
> 
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=CgNtutmgmwU5F-9ylof9ZMdpK6eHfkrfdPxIPxi0BoQ=Hx0De5mVmu2ZPKrws1zk9eZxNsw05OIHxbyKJy3lbPA=
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[John Mardinly]

So is there any chance that this will result in archlute themed backpacks, 
pencil cases, blankets, pillows or other Disney themed merchandise?

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

> On Sep 7, 2017, at 6:40 AM, spiffys84121 <spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu> 
> wrote:
> 
>   In July I was asked by Disney to appear in an episode of the show Andi
>   Mack. They needed a lute player for a big Ren  Faire scene. I
>   wascontracted to play the Gianoncelli Bergamesca on camera. It was
>   great fun and I used a 15 course archlute. I was in two scenes. Tge
>   episode will air in the fall.
> 
>   Sterling
> 
>   Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> 
>    Original message 
>   From: Alain Veylit <al...@musickshandmade.com>
>   Date: 9/6/17 8:51 PM (GMT-07:00)
>   To: lutelist Net <Lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall
> 
>   Pride and Prejudice 2005 - luteless, but the ball scenes and costumes
>   were well-researched. I once played with a gambist whose instrument had
>   been made for one of the Errol Flynn movies.
>   On 09/06/2017 07:16 PM, Edward C. Yong wrote:
>>Good dramas with proper period music that come to mind:
>>1) The 1994 film Nostradamus. It had a scene of a country
>   theatre, and
>>the music accompanying was Susato, with an onstage band of
>   instruments
>>(unfortunately including a metal flute). Soundtrack also included
>>Josquin, etc.
>>2) The TV series The Borgias had plenty of Renaissance music,
>   even if
>>most of it was about 100 years too late, but that's better than
>   most
>>productions anyway. I was asked to do a bit of musical detective
>   work
>>and the findings are here:
>> 
>   
> [1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.3pp.website_2013_02_the-2Dborgias-2Dmusical-2Dbackground.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=jq6JRTS8WZo-q437CPpHZAkbjewVOrmvuFfDJQBwqzw=3tHAx40Szw-CBgYJdY7r98wq4paKAdDNM0kb75pnWC8=
>  
>>3) The 1995 film Restoration. Lots of Purcell, even if much was
>>arranged for modern orchestra.
>>4) The 1994 film The Madness of King George. Lots of Haendel,
>   mostly
>>arranged for modern orchestra.
>> 
>>On 6 September 2017 at 23:41, Rainer
>   <[2]rads.bera_g...@t-online.de>
>>wrote:
>> 
>>  A bit late (after 2.5 years) :) - I seem to have missed it in
>   2015.
>>  I wonder if the serial really was such a success.
>>  I have watched (in German) all 6 episodes on the German/French
>>  [sic!] TV channel Arte recently.
>>  Apparently at least 50% of the population suffered from
>   depression
>>  in those days.
>>  How Cromwell survived 6 episodes without committing suicide is
>   an
>>  enigma.
>>  Rainer
>>  PS
>>  This reminds me of "Shakespeare in Love" which I recently
>   watched a
>>  second time on German TV - with very mixed feelings :)
>>  Of course there are many weird ideas. The queen would never
>   enter a
>>  public theatre.
>>  Question to the English members: Do most (Many?) people
>   understand
>>  those "hidden" jokes?
>>  I really liked the scene with Webster.
>>   On 22.01.2015 00:39, WALSH STUART wrote:
>> 
>>  (first episode of much-hyped TV series in UK)
>>  I was expecting an immediate response...
>>  So anyway, here goes: music begins with Ah Robin (not sung -
>   and
>>  probably played on a lute?)...melds into Glassy instrumental
>   stuff.
>>  A tremolando mandoline churns out all the plucked expressive
>   work,
>>  although lutes figure in the mise-en-scene from time to time.
>>  Mark Rylance is a very curious being.
>>  ---
>>  This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>   software.
>>  
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>>  
>>  To get on or off this list see list information at
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>> [4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=jq6JRTS8WZo-q437CPpHZAkbjewVOrmvuFfDJQBwqzw=WfUhjZrsQHHhyt5fnxnu5Xz3ARPR4BKeQi1XfSS307Y=
>>  
&g

[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[John Mardinly]

   At least when I visited the Santiago de Compostela Cathedral I was able
   to purchase a CD of the organ, performing Joaquin Sanchez, Domingo
   Losada, Gabriel Manalt and Manuel Gesto Garcia.

   On Sep 6, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
   wrote:

   That really is appalling when you consider the great riches of Spanish
   music by Juan del Encina, Cabezon, Guerrero, Victoria, et al - sorry
   some of these might be Portuguese!
   M
   On 06/09/2017 20:57, John Mardinly wrote:

More than movies: I recently visited the Sevilla Cathedral, where
Alonso Mudarra had been Canon from 1546-1580, and the electronic
self-guide devices had all background music from Handel's Messiah
 and
Xerxes. No Spanish renaissance music. Appalling.

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   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

   --

References

   1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_antivirus=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=FhY-0wNs2y0m87SKlclklq5YseLEMP8xKOVi_rHYvho=QJ38QHCbmrDH1Nhfb7_mmNFduTLr3h2UMJ1AZN146FM=
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=FhY-0wNs2y0m87SKlclklq5YseLEMP8xKOVi_rHYvho=ilMG-OcBEnC6Rmp30T-VxENUrKXPlHQczrt_Bc2fqiQ=

[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[John Mardinly]

   More than movies: I recently visited the Sevilla Cathedral, where
   Alonso Mudarra had been Canon from 1546-1580, and the electronic
   self-guide devices had all background music from Handel's Messiah and
   Xerxes. No Spanish renaissance music. Appalling.

   On Sep 6, 2017, at 9:07 AM, Tristan von Neumann
   <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

   Hello Rainer, and fellow cinephile Lutists,
   This is a long standing topic of mine...
   Movies mess up the music and/or historical facts nearly all the time...
   I wonder why that is? There's really good and authentic music for
   almost all purposes available, yet the makers choose some pseudo
   historical orchestral music, sometimes most hilariously acted as if
   played on real Renaissance instruments.
   Also, the absence of music in many scenes is irritating, where
   historical environments would certainly have had some musicians
   playing.
   However, some movies seem curiously real, though they are designed to
   be anachronistic.
   One of my favorites is "Bill", a Pythonesque (yet much more
   heartwarming) comedy about the dark years of Shakespeare.
   This is a must see, and though there are no original lute pieces in it,
   the soundtrack contains many real lutes.
   The movie is much better than "Shakespeare in Love" and much funnier,
   yet very respectful, and gets more facts right, for example: the Queen
   is already old and grumpy.
   The story is complex and extremely witty. Also, much detail is put into
   lesser figures. My favorite is the palace guard who comments on his
   favorite entertainment music or trumpet calls, though he can only hear
   them from outside the hall.
   Do not watch the trailer, or at least keep in mind that the music in it
   does not appear in the movie.
   Which is everyone's favourite Period Movie when it comes to well placed
   authentic music?
   Cheers!
   Tristan
   Am 06.09.2017 um 17:41 schrieb Rainer:

 This reminds me of "Shakespeare in Love" which I recently watched a
 second time on German TV - with very mixed feelings :)
 Of course there are many weird ideas. The queen would never enter a
 public theatre.

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   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

References

   1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwICaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E'pZfykcj6faFVQaY044WnS8xhbpPtOXODddIn0fxzs=xgAyYKtxi0KrYDZVQaAhRk5Mitm2CFgpqqnSvLyRJas=

[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[John Mardinly]

   How does Benjamin Britten's ‘Gloriana' fall in this discussion?

   On Sep 6, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Martin Shepherd <[1]mar...@luteshop.co.uk>
   wrote:

   It's not just music.  A friend of mine who is something of an expert in
   historical costume has a thing or two to say about some horrors -
   though costume is sometimes done very well.  Another friend who makes
   historical glass will tell you that film makers won't tolerate
   historical (clear) glass because it is invisible - so incorrectly
   tinted glass has to be used instead.
   But I agree the music thing is baffling - you'd think that even someone
   who knew nothing about music could do a bit of research to find music
   from the period, but apparently they don't bother, I suspect partly
   because they think of any music pre-1900 as being "medieval" so either
   they use anything at random from seven centuries of music of they
   simply use Elgar or Mozart instead.
   Actually I can see that using music which is totally "unhistorical"
   could be very atmospheric, referencing as it could the "progress" of
   human civilization - but maybe I'm asking too much here.
   M
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   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

References

   1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_antivirus=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=CMrqg7UGzTH6ulNDkd8aabe-Ce8NTldNTami1LPTeq8=iB90JhqiiBsEh8z7G5dKRP-lgewzHUGkL-hHUbhFXOU=
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=CMrqg7UGzTH6ulNDkd8aabe-Ce8NTldNTami1LPTeq8=5YE_KZbC42vGvct0SNkSOgRygod0FRwTRhJ-7KUqaYc=

[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[John Mardinly]

ÓM4‘
‘<^8Ø 
ãn½Ð@¶çŸB¾Ú²ç¸*'µéíO*^µìmþ™ZŠw!j»

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[LUTE] Re: Wolf Hall

[John Mardinly]

ÓM<ç]tMuïÏ8À€ú
5÷az¾Ú²ç¸*'µéíO*^µìmþ™ZŠw!j»

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[LUTE] Re: Mailing List Software [was] Re: Sermisy

[John Mardinly]

Amen.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist



> On Jul 26, 2017, at 5:42 AM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
> We have hundreds of words in English which are spelt in the same way 
> but have different meanings depending on the context and we usually 
> manage to understand what is intended without diacritical marks. 
> This list is conducted in English - is it helpful to insist on sending 
> messages which are difficult to decipher for everyone on it regardless 
> of what their mother tongue might be?
> Monica
> 
> 
> Original Message
> From: r...@mh-freiburg.de
> Date: 26/07/2017 12:19 
> To: <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
> Cc: "LutList"<lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Subj: Mailing List Software [was] Re: Sermisy
> 
> 
> Am Mittwoch, 26. Juli 2017 11:26 CEST, "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk" 
> <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> schrieb:
> 
> <...>
>> surely it is not necessary.
> 
> That's pretty much an anglocentric, snobbish statement.
> Those little speckles aren't just arabesque ornamental decoration, they 
> carry a meaning.
> It really makes a difference if you write someone is from "Düsseldorf" 
> (village near the river
> Düssel) or "Dusseldorf" (village of the morons).
> At least attempting to use propper spelling seems to be a laudeable 
> goal, even outside
> "scholarly dissertations".
> 
> Of course, the right thing to do would be to fix that small bugglet in 
> the ML software.
> I'd be more than happy to assist.
> 
> Cheers, RalfD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
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>  

[LUTE] Surgery

[John Mardinly]

I had surgery on May 10 to remove a 4mm mass that had appeared suddenly on my 
barring finger, making playing very difficult. I went to a hand surgery 
specialist who was skilled at the micro-suturing to close the wound so it would 
heal properly. After 5 weeks, I was able to get back to practicing. Pathology 
report was that the mass was a blood clot and there was no other disease 
process or malignancy. The surgeon explained that it must have been caused by 
physical trauma from playing. Very scary, but I am fortunate to have gotten 
away with no serious after effects or complications.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
Classical Guitarist/Lutenist


> On Jul 21, 2017, at 2:07 PM, cyndi...@netscape.net wrote:
> 
>   Amazing surgery!
>   
> [1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bbc.com_news_world-2Dasia-2Dindia-2D40678481=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=neAXcquqIi3yitX6xnwreZksQDyrJgf3_q9Dz6AMCpk=tRfoJMOPTztvdTMwgH3dJJOM4abby6FliRyHetop4oU=
>  
> 
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bbc.com_news_world-2Dasia-2Dindia-2D40678481=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=neAXcquqIi3yitX6xnwreZksQDyrJgf3_q9Dz6AMCpk=tRfoJMOPTztvdTMwgH3dJJOM4abby6FliRyHetop4oU=
>  
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
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>  

[LUTE] Re: Savarez Instruments Anciens Strings

[John Mardinly]

   Well, That's weird. Try again:

   I did get a reply from an inquiry with Savarez. No need to panic yet:
   They have re-done their web site, but not finished it. They put the web
   site on-line without inserting the listing for Early Period Instrument
   strings. They will be added later. There are no public plans to
   discontinue that line of strings.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Retired Principal Materials Nanoanalysis Engineer

   On May 2, 2017, at 9:25 AM, John Mardinly <[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
   wrote:

   ΣM9׏xπ?5½8ίΠΔ?En·σ š²ηΈ*'΅
ινO*^΅μmώ™ZŠw!j»
   
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   z41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=1wl
   ebTKsrjbvnRn7_dbs3mr395iJ4jDdc3ygH9jGuZA=Jpa-dqHbg_ZinovmiuKLZenRJ7Tj
   xAJqMlM4aSKw-aQ=

References

   1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
   2. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIGAg=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ=1wlebTKsrjbvnRn7_dbs3mr395iJ4jDdc3ygH9jGuZA=Jpa-dqHbg_ZinovmiuKLZenRJ7TjxAJqMlM4aSKw-aQ=

[LUTE] Re: Savarez Instruments Anciens Strings

[John Mardinly]

ÓM9׏xð?5½8
ßÐÄ?En·ó š²ç¸*'µéíO*^µìmþ™ZŠw!j»

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