Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

2017-01-16 15:57 GMT+01:00 PhilipPirrip :

> Oh, I see.  This should be in Tools>Preferences I guess since it's not
> document-specific (is it being saved with the document?)
> LyX could even remember the last value chosen for the bibtex inset.
>

No, it's document specific, since it depends on the selected "cite engine"
(basic and natbib and jurabib have different default styles; the fact that
they cannot deal with the other's default style was actually the reason to
introduce this feature).

And yes, it is saved as a buffer param.

Jürgen

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[PhilipPirrip]

On 01/15/2017 09:14 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

This is an old feature. If you enter "default" in the bibliography
style widget (in the BibTeX dialog), then this is replaced with this
"Default bibtex style".

I did not change this behavior, although I think the UI is sub-optimal.



Oh, I see.  This should be in Tools>Preferences I guess since it's not 
document-specific (is it being saved with the document?)

LyX could even remember the last value chosen for the bibtex inset.

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Sonntag, den 15.01.2017, 08:29 -0500 schrieb PhilipPirrip:
> So this is yet another thing: what does "Default bibtex style" in 
> Document Settings, Bibliography do? I don't see any change in latex
> code.

This is an old feature. If you enter "default" in the bibliography
style widget (in the BibTeX dialog), then this is replaced with this
"Default bibtex style".

I did not change this behavior, although I think the UI is sub-optimal.

Jürgen


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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Sonntag, den 15.01.2017, 07:49 -0500 schrieb PhilipPirrip:
> Next:
> open my childTwo.lyx alone. It's been set to use Natbib (BibTeX),
> and 
> LaTeX code reflects that. But the "xxx generated bibliography" has 
> xxx=Biblatex, and it's impossible to change it to what it's supposed
> to 
> be, xxx=Bibtex.
> That also prevents one from changing \bibliographystyle from {plain} 
> (no option for bibliography style in the dialog).

I think there is nothing we can do here. Since you have set master.lyx
as default master document in Document > Settings, the master is also
opened (hidden) if you open childTwo. Thus the file is considered to ba
a children and inherits the master params.

If you open the child really as a single document (without the "default
master" set), you get the BibTeX settings.

Jürgen

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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[PhilipPirrip]

On 01/15/2017 08:16 AM, Kornel Benko wrote:
> Which dialog? I don't see problems in Document->Settings->bibliography

The dialog where you (normally/only) set the bibliography style: press 
the "Biblatex generated bibliography" button. The field "Style" is 
missing even though the document uses bibtex/natbib.
The button itself switches (should switch, that is) from biblatex to 
bibtex (generated bibliography) as you change the setting in Document 
Settings. But not in this document. Probably because it was saved as a 
child of master.


Also note that 	changing bibliography style in Document Settings, 
Bibliography from plain to anything else does not change latex code.


So this is yet another thing: what does "Default bibtex style" in 
Document Settings, Bibliography do? I don't see any change in latex code.

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Kornel Benko]

Am Sonntag, 15. Januar 2017 um 07:49:41, schrieb PhilipPirrip 
> Next:
> open my childTwo.lyx alone. It's been set to use Natbib (BibTeX), and 
> LaTeX code reflects that. But the "xxx generated bibliography" has 
> xxx=Biblatex, and it's impossible to change it to what it's supposed to 
> be, xxx=Bibtex.
> That also prevents one from changing \bibliographystyle from {plain} 
> (no option for bibliography style in the dialog).

Which dialog? I don't see problems in Document->Settings->bibliography

Kornel


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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[PhilipPirrip]

Next:
open my childTwo.lyx alone. It's been set to use Natbib (BibTeX), and 
LaTeX code reflects that. But the "xxx generated bibliography" has 
xxx=Biblatex, and it's impossible to change it to what it's supposed to 
be, xxx=Bibtex.
That also prevents one from changing \bibliographystyle from {plain} 
(no option for bibliography style in the dialog).

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Samstag, den 14.01.2017, 07:39 -0500 schrieb PhilipPirrip:
> On 01/14/2017 05:39 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> > I prefer to get them without jumping through such hoops.
> 
> I'm sorry, I was switching from t'bird to some other news readdder.
> Attaching the files again.

Thanks! Should be fixed now.

Jürgen

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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[PhilipPirrip]

On 01/14/2017 05:39 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

I prefer to get them without jumping through such hoops.


I'm sorry, I was switching from t'bird to some other news readdder.
Attaching the files again.


childOne.lyx
Description: application/lyx


childTwo.lyx
Description: application/lyx


master.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Samstag, den 14.01.2017, 10:45 +0100 schrieb Kornel Benko:
> They did. How to get the data:
> 1.) save the mail to a file, e.g. /tmp/childOne.lyx
> 2.) use uudeview on that file (in another directory)
>   ==> you get the undecoded childOne.lyx

I prefer to get them without jumping through such hoops.

Jürgen

> 
>   Kornel

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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Kornel Benko]

Am Samstag, 14. Januar 2017 um 10:15:29, schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller 

> Am Freitag, den 13.01.2017, 20:17 + schrieb PhilipPirrip:
> > I'm reporting that the master document won't compile with a child 
> > document containing some commands specific to natbib.
> > In the attached examples, it will be because of a citation command
> > in 
> > childOne.lyx. 
> > Can this be translated on the fly? 
> 
> Can you please resend the attachments? They did not make it to the
> list.
> 
> Jürgen

They did. How to get the data:
1.) save the mail to a file, e.g. /tmp/childOne.lyx
2.) use uudeview on that file (in another directory)
==> you get the undecoded childOne.lyx

Kornel

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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Freitag, den 13.01.2017, 20:17 + schrieb PhilipPirrip:
> I'm reporting that the master document won't compile with a child 
> document containing some commands specific to natbib.
> In the attached examples, it will be because of a citation command
> in 
> childOne.lyx. 
> Can this be translated on the fly? 

Can you please resend the attachments? They did not make it to the
list.

Jürgen

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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[PhilipPirrip]

On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:47:12 +0100, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

> Right. As I wrote you: please update to the most recent version (which
> is in master meanwhile, not features/biblatex2!).
> 
> Please report back if this issue still persists.

This is what I understand you did: even if the child does not use biblatex 
and its code contains bibtex commands \bibliographystyle and 
\bibliography those won't be used when compiling the master document. All 
good.


I'm reporting that the master document won't compile with a child 
document containing some commands specific to natbib.
In the attached examples, it will be because of a citation command in 
childOne.lyx. 
Can this be translated on the fly? 

Thanks a lot for working on biblatex support, Juergen!

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child - "childOne.lyx" yEnc

[PhilipPirrip]

=ybegin line=128 size=1856 name=childOne.lyx
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=yend size=1856 crc32=515fab52

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child - "childTwo.lyx" yEnc

[PhilipPirrip]

=ybegin line=128 size=1919 name=childTwo.lyx
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=yend size=1919 crc32=f5cb8f05

Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child - "master.lyx" yEnc

[PhilipPirrip]

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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Jürgen Spitzmüller]

Am Freitag, den 13.01.2017, 12:32 -0500 schrieb Richard Heck:
> On 01/13/2017 12:29 PM, PhilipPirrip wrote:
> > This is probably more of a general issue: when *master* is set to
> > use 
> > biblatex, and a child hasn't been changed to use biblatex as well
> > but 
> > uses, for example, natbib, two inconsistencies can happen:
> > 1) when child contains "Insert>...>Bibliography", it will have 
> > \bibliographystyle and \bibliography commands, but will add the
> > correct  
> > \addbibresource to the master. The solution would be to
> > automatically 
> > switch the child to biblatex or at least warn the users of this 
> > inconsistency on their side. 
> > 2) child can have commands like \citeyearpar that will not be
> > recognized 
> > by biblatex when the master document is compiled. 
> 
> I think I saw a recent commit that addressed this kind of problem.

Right. As I wrote you: please update to the most recent version (which
is in master meanwhile, not features/biblatex2!).

Please report back if this issue still persists.

> > I'm actually wondering if there's really need for child documents
> > to have 
> > their own Document>Settings (their own preamble), independent of
> > the 
> > master document's settings. 
> 
> This has been discussed many times. Being a child document isn't an
> intrinsic feature of a file. It could
> be a child of many different documents, and also sometimes be used on
> its own. I have many such files.

Such as beamer presentations, that could be children of beamer
handouts. Master/child is much more than book/chapters.

> That said, it wouldn't be terrible to have some option that meant:
> Always treat this document as a child,
> and do not attempt to use its own settings. But then it's not clear
> what
> that means if it isn't a child

I am not sure what we will gain by this.

Thanks for testing!

Jürgen

> 
> Richard
> 

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Re: biblatex (features/biblatex2) branch and master/child

[Richard Heck]

On 01/13/2017 12:29 PM, PhilipPirrip wrote:
> This is probably more of a general issue: when *master* is set to use 
> biblatex, and a child hasn't been changed to use biblatex as well but 
> uses, for example, natbib, two inconsistencies can happen:
> 1) when child contains "Insert>...>Bibliography", it will have 
> \bibliographystyle and \bibliography commands, but will add the correct  
> \addbibresource to the master. The solution would be to automatically 
> switch the child to biblatex or at least warn the users of this 
> inconsistency on their side. 
> 2) child can have commands like \citeyearpar that will not be recognized 
> by biblatex when the master document is compiled. 

I think I saw a recent commit that addressed this kind of problem.

> I'm actually wondering if there's really need for child documents to have 
> their own Document>Settings (their own preamble), independent of the 
> master document's settings. 

This has been discussed many times. Being a child document isn't an
intrinsic feature of a file. It could
be a child of many different documents, and also sometimes be used on
its own. I have many such files.

That said, it wouldn't be terrible to have some option that meant:
Always treat this document as a child,
and do not attempt to use its own settings. But then it's not clear what
that means if it isn't a child

Richard