[PEN-L:1591] Re: Re: Re: Enlightenment insightl03130305b293f79eb67d@[137.92.41.119]3.0.1.32.19981208115618.00a810b4@popserver.panix.com3.0.6.32.19981208112637.00793ac0@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu3.0.1.32.19981208100216.008ea5a0@popserver.panix.com3.0.6.32.19981208093919.007f7210@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu199812072258.RAA01417@konichiwa.cc.columbia.edu19981207220933.8772.qmail@hotmail.com3.0.1.32.19981209111112.0091018c@popserver.panix.com3.0.1.32.19981210175351.00aafbdc@cc.newcastle.edu.au3.0.1.32.19981214155050.00ab2620@cc.newcastle.edu.au 3.0.1.32.19981216162448.00ac1d88@cc.newcastle.edu.au

1998-12-17 Thread rcam
ajit, please do send me a copy of your paper. looks interesting. what bit or bits do you want me to elaborate on re the stuff about value? regards, angela

[PEN-L:1635] Re: treatment of James Craven

1998-12-17 Thread Ajit Sinha
I don't think these letters to Hasart is going to have any impact, that's why I'm not writing a second letter. I think the case should be taken up by civil liberties union or some such national level organization, and it should be written about in newspapers and magazines. I have a case too, in

[PEN-L:1636] Re: Re: Re: Re: Enlightenment insight

1998-12-17 Thread Ajit Sinha
At 02:08 17/12/98 +1100, you wrote: ajit, please do send me a copy of your paper. looks interesting. what bit or bits do you want me to elaborate on re the stuff about value? regards, angela ___ I'll need your postal address to send the paper. I was not talking avout "value" in

[PEN-L:1639] Re: Bombing of Iraq

1998-12-17 Thread sokol
A few reflections: 1. I think the "wag the dog" scenario is too generous for Clinton. I do not think that spineless jellyfish or his spindoctors are capable of masterminding something of that sort. Methinks, that poor excuse for a human being acted in his more usual-self fashion: by

[PEN-L:1641] me on ABCNEWS.COM

1998-12-17 Thread Doug Henwood
I'm going to be doing a "chat" at 1:00 EST on the ABC News site, which will be mirrored (I think) on TheStreet.com. It looks like the URL will be http://chat.abcnews.go.com/chat/chat.dll?room=abc_Doug_henwood. It'd be nice to see some familiar pixels there. Doug

[PEN-L:1645] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: George Kennan

1998-12-17 Thread sokol
At 02:56 PM 12/16/98 -0800, Brad de Long wrote: You can think that the people who pushed through the Marshall Plan and the post-WWII economic order were as much cynical realists as George Kennan. But in my opinion at least you would be mistaken. And you can't say that these economic idealists

[PEN-L:1648] Re: George Kennan

1998-12-17 Thread Louis Proyect
It seems to me that any evaluation has to conclude on net that the projection of U.S. military power in the twentieth century has been a positive force--unless the person doing the evaluation sees positive aspects to Hitler, Stalin, and Mao that I do not see. Brad DeLong DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY

[PEN-L:1652] Re: Re: Bombing of Iraq

1998-12-17 Thread Jim Devine
Wojtek writes: 2. Who knows, maybe all that impeachment brouhaha was a Kisingeresque ploy devised by the said hawks and bigwigs to ascertain Clinton compliance? The standard liberal-democrat line that the impeachment ploy has been cooked only by a handlful of right wing characters is not very

[PEN-L:1653] Correspondence to Clark College on the Craven affair

1998-12-17 Thread Louis Proyect
December 15, 1998 Michele Cheung Editor Dark Night field notes P.O. Box 3629 Chicago, IL 60690-3629 Tana Hasart President Clark College 1800 McLoughlin Blvd. Vancouver, WA 98663 Dear President Hasart: It has come to my attention that my name and e-mail address have appeared on a December

[PEN-L:1656] Iraq raid may wreck START-2

1998-12-17 Thread Frank Durgin
Date sent:Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:31:01 -0500 (EST) To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: David Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kremlin says Iraq raid may wreck START-2 MOSCOW, Dec 17 (Reuters) - U.S. air strikes against Iraq may have wrecked chances of the Russian

[PEN-L:1658] Re: Very Strange Argument

1998-12-17 Thread Brad De Long
I reply (WS): I am not a historian, but was not the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour a response to the US militarism in the region, specifically the threat of cutting off the Japanese oil supply lines? A decision to destroy the US navy was was a logical defensive movement on the part of Japan's

[PEN-L:1661] Re: Re: Very Strange Argument

1998-12-17 Thread Louis Proyect
Ummm... The U.S. embargoes exports of oil to Japan (because Japan continues its campaign to conquer China, and prepares to send its armies north into Siberia). A Japanese attack on the U.S. is a "logical defensive movement" in response? A very, very strange argument... Brad DeLong To

[PEN-L:1662] Re: Re: Very Strange Argument

1998-12-17 Thread sokol
At 10:36 AM 12/17/98 -0800, Brad de Long wrote: I reply (WS): I am not a historian, but was not the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour a response to the US militarism in the region, specifically the threat of cutting off the Japanese oil supply lines? A decision to destroy the US navy was was a

[PEN-L:1664] Re: treatment of James Craven

1998-12-17 Thread Rosser Jr, John Barkley
Ajit, You may be right. But, I figure every little bit helps. They need to have a barrage of pressure coming from a lot of directions. The report that the Chronicle of Higher Education is getting interested in Jim's case is the best news I've heard so far on this unfortunate

[PEN-L:1665] Re: Re: Very Strange Argument

1998-12-17 Thread Rosser Jr, John Barkley
Wojtek, You don't have the timing right here. It was not a threat to cut off Japan's oil supplies. The US did so a full six months prior to Pearl Harbor. As I have explained in another post, FDR fully expected this to bring a Japanese attack on Philippines on the way to the Indonesian

[PEN-L:1668] Civil Society and US Business Community

1998-12-17 Thread Hinrich Kuhls
In connection with the most recent international developments and in connection with some recent threads on the list - bombing in Iraq, globalization, civil society, international trade, global financial crisis - I assume it might be quite interesting to have a look at this revealing document:

[PEN-L:1669] Re: Craven followup

1998-12-17 Thread Jim Devine
does someone have a copy of the infamous memo from Hasart et al. about Jim Craven's use of e-mail? I'd like to forward it to some civil libertarians. Send it directly to me, please, to avoid cluttering the list. Thanks ahead of time. At 11:53 AM 12/17/98 -0500, you wrote: Jim is running off to a

[PEN-L:1672] Re: Re: Re: George Kennan

1998-12-17 Thread Jim Devine
As part of the pen-l process of prodding Brad to name names, I wrote: I still want to know who these "people" are. If they were standing for human rights, democracy, and economic development despite the poopstorm coming down on their heads during the Truman-McCarthy era, when the slightest

[PEN-L:1674] Re: Re: Re: Monsanto and BST in Canada

1998-12-17 Thread Rosser Jr, John Barkley
A curious related political tidbit to this BST thing is that one of the politicians opposed to it is Senator Russell Feingold of Wisconsin, where dairy farmers would like to keep dairy prices up and are unimpressed as a group with BST. Feingold is also one of the leaders (along with

[PEN-L:1677] Re: Re: Social Democracy and Utopia

1998-12-17 Thread William S. Lear
On Thu, December 17, 1998 at 14:24:29 (-0800) Brad De Long writes: And his definition of economic development was clearly that of the development of capitalism. We prefer to talk about the "mixed economy," or "social democracy," or "social-market economy," or the "political-economic

[PEN-L:1682] [Fwd: Job Announcement]

1998-12-17 Thread michael
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hector Saez wrote: Please Post this job announcement on Pen-L. Wagner College, Staten Island, New York A0 General Economics F0 International Economics L0 Industrial Organization P0 Economic Systems R0 Urban/Regional Economics The

[PEN-L:1679] Re: Re: Social Democracy and Utopia

1998-12-17 Thread Brad De Long
Brad, who is this "we"? You and Truman? Harry S Truman (to whom "his" referred in my sentence) was no social democrat! He was a right-wing member of the New Deal coalition (which makes him sort of left wing by today's standards). I'm surprised that you want to put yourself in the same league

[PEN-L:1676] Re: Social Democracy and Utopia

1998-12-17 Thread Jim Devine
I wrote: And his definition of economic development was clearly that of the development of capitalism. Brad writes: We prefer to talk about the "mixed economy," or "social democracy," or "social-market economy," or the "political-economic arrangements that produced the fastest generation of

[PEN-L:1675] Re: craven, pinochet and iraq

1998-12-17 Thread Tom Kruse
Micheal laments: All the while, we remain unorganized Many of us on this list are taechers, and I imagine many of you, like me, fancy that every once in a while something happens in a student, something important, on the basis of the learning opportunites we structure. Not organizing, I

[PEN-L:1673] Re: Social Democracy and Utopia

1998-12-17 Thread Brad De Long
And his definition of economic development was clearly that of the development of capitalism. We prefer to talk about the "mixed economy," or "social democracy," or "social-market economy," or the "political-economic arrangements that produced the fastest generation of economic growth that the

[PEN-L:1671] craven, pinochet and iraq

1998-12-17 Thread Michael Perelman
I see the three topics in my heading being symptomatic of the way power is thrown about today. A small college executive, fearing trouble about "radical" activitity on campus,wields all her power against an individual faculty member. Clinton fearing domestic (in a double sense?) problems bombs

[PEN-L:1670] Re: Re: Re: Monsanto and BST in Canada

1998-12-17 Thread Jim Devine
Ken wrote: It is a growth hormone. The hormone increases milk production in cows. Some studies, however, indicate it may enter the bloodstream when people drink the milk and cause increased incidence of certain types of cancer. Some studies also indicate that it may cause health

[PEN-L:1667] Re: Re: Re: Very Strange Argument

1998-12-17 Thread Brad De Long
Well, the usual story that I have heard about the US and Japan and oil in WW II is not that the US needed it because we had it then. We were the Saudi Arabia of the world at that time, the great Saudi fields only having just begun to be developed in 1936. It was the 1950s when we became a

[PEN-L:1666] Clinton's constituency

1998-12-17 Thread sokol
At 08:15 AM 12/17/98 -0800, Jim Devine wrote, inter alia: today. As noted, he's been more than willing to comply. The exception, I feel, is that he does have a core constituency that he can't abandon completely. Thus he has made fewer compromises on abortion rights and a few other issues (I

[PEN-L:1663] Re: Re: Very Strange Argument

1998-12-17 Thread Rosser Jr, John Barkley
Well, the usual story that I have heard about the US and Japan and oil in WW II is not that the US needed it because we had it then. We were the Saudi Arabia of the world at that time, the great Saudi fields only having just begun to be developed in 1936. It was the 1950s when we

[PEN-L:1659] Re: George Kennan

1998-12-17 Thread Louis Proyect
Wojtek: I reply (WS): I am not a historian, but was not the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour a response to the US militarism in the region, specifically the threat of cutting off the Japanese oil supply lines? A decsion to destroy the US navy was was a logical defensive movement on the part of

[PEN-L:1660] Re: Re: Re: Monsanto and BST in Canada

1998-12-17 Thread Ellen Dannin
Wojtek What exactly is recombinant bovine somatotrophin (BST) and what is it used for? -Original Message- From: Ken Hanly [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is a growth hormone. The hormone increases milk production in cows. The other concern flows from bst's use to increase milk production

[PEN-L:1657] Re: Re: Re: George Kennan

1998-12-17 Thread sokol
At 08:05 AM 12/17/98 -0800, Brad deLong wrote: "Countries" aren't conscious beings with objectives that "allow"--such patterns of thought have been a principal cause of a lot of atrocities in this century, as people who should know better believe that by killing civilians in large numbers they

[PEN-L:1655] RUSSIA CONDEMNS ATTACKS ON IRAQ

1998-12-17 Thread Frank Durgin
Date sent:Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:00:05 -0500 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Jamestown Foundation [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: 17 December 1998 Monitor - Vol.IV, No.233 Thursday, December 17, 1998 MONITOR -- A DAILY BRIEFING ON THE POST-SOVIET STATES RUSSIA

[PEN-L:1654] Craven followup

1998-12-17 Thread Louis Proyect
Jim is running off to a big meeting and asked me to forward Michelle Cheung's letter to PEN-L. I don't think he'd mind if I also forwarded this: - Also, Chronicle of Higher Ed is getting on this--reporter contacted me aqnd I sent everything. Please thank Doug. Bear Chief just called me and

[PEN-L:1649] Re: Re: Re: me on ABCNEWS.COM

1998-12-17 Thread Jim Devine
I heard that the passage of time was being delayed because of the war against Iraq... At 10:58 AM 12/17/98 -0500, you wrote: Rob Schaap wrote: Bewdy! What time (EST) is it right now? Mebbe I can sit up for this one. 11 AM EST right now. But by the time you get this that time will be

[PEN-L:1650] Re: Re: Monsanto and BST in Canada

1998-12-17 Thread Ken Hanly
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a growth hormone. The hormone increases milk production in cows. Some studies, however, indicate it may enter the bloodstream when people drink the milk and cause increased incidence of certain types of cancer. Some studies also indicate that it may cause

[PEN-L:1646] Re: Re: me on ABCNEWS.COM

1998-12-17 Thread Doug Henwood
Rob Schaap wrote: Bewdy! What time (EST) is it right now? Mebbe I can sit up for this one. 11 AM EST right now. But by the time you get this that time will be inoperative. Doug

[PEN-L:1642] Re: Monsanto and BST in Canada

1998-12-17 Thread sokol
What exactly is recombinant bovine somatotrophin (BST) and what is it used for? Wojtek

[PEN-L:1640] Re: Bombing of Iraq IV

1998-12-17 Thread valis
. 6. It just came to me that traveling around the world with a document showing the US logo on it is both disgraceful and unsafe. I think I need to renew my expired Polish passport. 7. Fuck the United States of America and its

[PEN-L:1638] Hypocrisy on bio-chemical weapons

1998-12-17 Thread Louis Proyect
THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK: A HISTORY OF BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS By Zoltan Grossman - 400s BC.: Spartan Greeks use sulfur fumes against enemy soldiers. 1346: Crimean Tatars catapult plague-infected corpses into

[PEN-L:1637] Re: Re: Bombing of Iraq

1998-12-17 Thread Ken Hanly
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the correction. Maybe I voted the opposite to what I intended! Cheers, Ken Hanly In a message dated 12/16/1998 7:40:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://newsworld.cbc.ca --- it needed the colon, but what you