[biofuels-biz] Chem Supplies
I am unable to secure NaOH or H2SO4 for a test batch of BD. I am to demo this for some highschoolers on monday and i have procrastanated, aparantly too long. It seems Since 911 no more shipping to people. Love living in the land of the free. I live in the michigan Detroit area. If anyone can help, Please let me know? Eric _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Fwd: RE:
Reply direct if you're interested, he's not a member of the list, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:56:26 +0500 (IST) From: sk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Sir, We take pleasure in introducing ourselves as Project Management Consultants from concept to conceiving. We are interested in acquiring technology for putting up plants of Anhydrous Ethanol i.e. Power Alcohol to proof 200 for mixing with Petrol. The Capacity of Plant will be about 100 mt.cu/day or 1,00,000 ltr./day. If you are economical we can try to get order for atleast 50 such plants in 3 years time in India after proofing our work in 3-4 plants. I would like to inform you that we are interested in a Company who can work as our partner for power alcohol i.e. those units who are manufacturing alcohol to convert it into anhydrous ethanol alcohol to be used as fuel for mixing in petrol. For you kind information, legislation is issued by Government of India that a Company can mix 10% ethanol. As ourselves is an old business house although it is very small but we deal with companies having proven technology for example Alfa Level, Thermex. Unfortunately, Alfa Level will become our competitor in this regard. We shall, therefore, request you to let us know if you are interest in such a venture in India on partnership basis on mutual decided terms. Kindly let us know how you can help us and details how you feel to enter into Indian Market. Thanking you and looking forward to hear from you with interest. Thanking you, With regards (S.K.Dev) Simple Controls Process Engineers Works: A-78, Govt. Industrial Estate, Talkatora, Lucknow ö 226 004 India Phone no. (0522) 661155 / 662155 Fax: (0522) 237475 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Off: Aakriti Tower, 2nd Floor, 19-B Vidhan Sabha Marg, Lucknow ö 226 001 India Phone No. (0522) 237194 Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/9bTolB/TM -~- Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] DOE Grant
I got a reply from the US DOE yesterday saying they found no merit in my preliminary grant application. I'm a little disappointed, but thought there might still be something of value here. If you have the time, let me know what you think Tom Leue Homestead Inc. Biomass Research and Development for the Production of Fuels, Power, Chemicals and other Economical and Sustainable Products Solicitation 1435-01-02-RP-86382 Pre-Application Submitted 5/14/02 Submitted to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proposal for a Biodiesel Development Center Submitted by: Thomas S. Leue, President, Homestead Inc. 1664 Cape St., Williamsburg, MA 01096 413 628-4533, Fax 413 628-3973 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Introduction Biodiesel fuel has been shown to be a superior diesel fuel in terms of environmental impact, balance of trade, global warming, toxicity, emissions, engine longevity, etc. However, it has not been generally available to the public due to the limited number of producers and their geographic locations. Biodiesel fuel has a potential to supply approximately 6.6% of national diesel fuel needs, according to the National Biodiesel Board (NBB). To date, the NBB has concentrated on production of biodiesel made from virgin soybean oil, and all testing has been limited to that product. This proposal will lead to the development of an urban biodiesel production facility in Albany, New York that will demonstrate the commercial potential of a fuel production business based on locally available yellow grease and other vegetable oil sources, along with providing the educational resources needed for others to duplicate this facility model in many other urban areas throughout the US. Technical Narrative The production of biodiesel has been developed using numerous technologies over the past twenty years or longer. The technical know how is largely in the public domain, but has not led to widespread production throughout the US. For instance, this researcher maintains the only commercial scale production facility within a 500 mile radius, located in Western Massachusetts. The biodiesel biorefinery operated by Homestead Inc. is a pilot scale, batch type production facility. Although each batch produced is small, currently 20 gallons net per batch and soon to go to 100 gallons net per batch, the large number of batches produced, over 300 to date, has developed an in-depth understanding of the collection and processing systems needed and the variability inherent in processing used vegetable oil. Over four years of development and operating experience has developed the basic requirements for a larger processing facility to be developed under this proposal. The development of another mid-sized biodiesel production facility by itself will not significantly change the rate of utilization of this alternative fuel. For example, New York State is currently using over 250,000 gallons biodiesel per year, a large part of our initial annual production of up to 1,000,000 gallons per year. The essence of this proposal is to operate a commercially viable biorefinery based on locally available yellow grease; to promote the use and availability to the public of biodiesel fuel in both B-20 and B-100 formulations; to document the technical operations and project economics of biodiesel production for use in other startup ventures; to make the facility accessible to the public for tours and formal training sessions so as to promote the introduction of the technology throughout the urban centers of the US; to undertake necessary testing of yellow grease-based biodiesel as required by 40 CFR 79 that has not been accomplished to date; and to remove the current obstacles that hinder the more widespread development of production facilities in other urban centers. The initial plan would include some advanced energy management operations. For example, all normal energy inputs required for operation would be site-produced from either on-site biofueled diesel electrical generation, biodiesel operated transportation, or from direct utilization of byproducts as an energy source for thermal process heat. The facility would be the first post-petroleum production facility of its kind, having no provisions for the on-site use of fossil fuels. After the initial startup and operation goals are met, the Biodiesel Development Center would undertake research that has not been extensively explored by others to date. For example, greasetrap waste represents a large problem throughout the US, both in terms of the burden for maintenance and operation of numerous public and private facilities, and also in environmentally acceptable disposal options in many locations. The Biodiesel Development Center would undertake basic investigations as to cost effective methods of recapturing and utilizing this abundant resource for additional biofuel production. Statement of Work The proposed tasks are as follows: A. Assembly of a
[biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While we're at it, how about a discussion of the sucking trucking industry anyway? Just another one of the big suckers at the public teat, truckers. We always hear a lot of bad press for Amtrack here in the US from the right wing and free market types, but no mention from those same people about all the bigtime public welfare suckers like truckers and farmers. Where would the truckers be without public highways, their tracks? What we really need in this country is to mandate that absolutely no road construction or repair be done anywhere from this point forward unless it's paid for totally 100% by fuel tax. No general funds whatsoever going into highways. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Harmon, Having been involved in trucking for over 25 years, I believe you have some serious misperceptions about trucking and truckers. We would LOVE to see fuel taxes spent on highway repairs. The last fuel increase was widely supported by truckers, in the mistaken belief that it would be spent on highway repairs. It was not! It was spent on paving bicycle paths and airport runways. The average truck(if there is such a thing) spends $7000/year in road-use taxes. Now if we could only get it spent on roads, instead of bicycle paths and airport runways and new city transit buses, we could all be happier. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Martin Klingensmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This goes along the same lines as who should pay for airport security? Me? No. I don't fly. Adding $5 to every ticket won't hurt one thing. I agree with you on that, but the way it works in the world of trucking, is that the money from increased ticket prices would much more likely be spent on something like new handicapped parking signs at the local mall! If frequent fliers complained about it, they would be 'bashed' for being 'against' handicapped people having special parking privileges. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] blend biodiesel/svo
any one had experience using biodiesel to thin svo or wvo to make a less costly fuel. I read about using dinodiesel or kerosene as a thinner so as not to have to heat it up to burn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] oil crisis data
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/ Named after the late Dr. M. King Hubbert, Geophysicist, this website provides data, analysis and recommendations regarding the upcoming peak in the rate of global oil extraction. Among others, there is an interesting doc - 'Modelling future liquids production from extrapolation of the past and from ultimates' by Jean Laherrere, France - which has a lot of data - and anyway Hubbert's peak is not challenged here. http://www.hubbertpeak.com/laherrere/uppsalaJHL.pdf Another interesting snippet from the same site: George W. Bush on Next Four Years: Tom Brokaw: You talk a lot about the energy crisis, but you've talked about it almost exclusively as the need to produce more energy. There's been very little talk about conservation. We have been on a buying and consumption binge in this country. George W. Bush: Well, I thought - listen, I believe we need to conserve. I mean, I think we need to have incentives to encourage people to insulate their homes better. I think we need to make sure industry does not, you know, is not wasteful, not question about it. But I'm realistic. We can't conserve our independence. I mean, you got an energy problem in California primarily caused by the fact there's no plants, and there's not enough to fuel the plants if there were new plants. We need to explore natural gas. I mean we need to be moving U.S. product. And so I think the two go hand in hand. I was reading somewhere the other day, where we can get out of this crisis by more wind. Well, you know, that's an interesting thought, except our technology isn't enough to capture enough wind to be able to make sure our economy continues to grow. And so I strongly believe in conservation. I believe we made great progress in conservation. But I know if we don't find more product we're going to have a problem. Excerpted from an interview on MSNBC (January 14, 2001 http://www.msnbc.com/news/515320.asp) Essence: Independence = more consumption and more production! (perhaps with more wind!) I am really amazed and find it hard to believe that this person is the president of *the* superpower. good grief! __ramjee. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ramjee Swaminathan http://www.qsl.net/vu2sro/ Mr. Muste, asked a reporter, do you really think you are going to change the policies of this country by standing out here alone at night in front of the White House with a candle? Oh, I don't do this to change the country. I do this so the country won't change me. -- Andrea Ayvazian, as Quoted in The Sun =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Shell article
Keith No, sorry I just remember seeing the name Shell and I didn't save the article. Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently there was an article about Shell and biodiesel on this website - can someone please send me [EMAIL PROTECTED] a copy of it, or put it on this site again thanks? Philip Can you be more specific? Keith Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do You Yahoo!? Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] blend biodiesel/svo
Conrad wrote: any one had experience using biodiesel to thin svo or wvo to make a less costly fuel. I read about using dinodiesel or kerosene as a thinner so as not to have to heat it up to burn. Sure, you can do that, better than dino or kero. But I wouldn't conclude that you don't have to heat it up anyway. The same provisos would apply, only less so. See Guide to using vegetable oil as diesel fuel: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
Hi Harmon That's the first I've heard of anyone proposing to retard timing to lower NOx -- is anyone actually doing this? A catalytic converter would do the job with no loss of power or milage, and no increase in particulates. Of course, you couldn't run our high sulfur dinodiesel thru it then, but certainly you'd have problems running dinodiesel anyway if you retarded the injection timing, more smoke, less power, poor milage, etc. Bad idea all the way around. No, not a bad idea, it's more or less standard practice. There's some argument about whether it should be by 2 deg or 3 deg, which I guess depends on the motor. It reduces NOx emissions, and raises PM emissions slightly, but since PM emissions are reduced so much anyway, you can end up with PM still way below petro-diesel level and NOx the same or below, general gains. Plenty of references here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html NOx emissions and biodiesel Retarded fuel injection timing reduced NOx emissions while maintaining the other emissions reductions. Etc etc. regards Keith -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] re: Reality
Hello Ken Well, as they say, chacun son gout. I think we're talking a difference of temperament here, rather than a real difference of opinion. I have great respect for anyone who can remain optimistic these days, and I definitely appreciate this egroup, both for the great info as well as a place to rant occasionally. Rest assured, it's possible to still be motivated to do the right thing EVEN when you have doubts it will do any good, so even pessimists like me can still make biodiesel and talk it up :-) :-) Quite so, and rest assured I do so rest assured. It's so easy to get paralysed when looking at the entire full daunting scope of a problem and end up feeling helpless and doing nothing. One should be aware of the full scope, but it's also true that the ocean is made up of little drops. Big problems can succumb to Chinese water torture, eh? I am optimistic, generally, but there ain't no rose-tinted specs involved. I was angry for many years, furious even. You can't spend time doing things like sitting with some local people trying to figure possible levers to use against the needless famine raging away outside and someone says The only growth industry around here is in little coffins and not get angry. There are still millions upon millions of little coffins, and big ones too, and all the rest of it, and I know why that's so. And indeed I still do get angry, and depressed. But it's not an effective strategy. Do it, get it over with, get your balance back, get on with it. But what I was saying isn't just a matter of temperament, it's what I see, objectively. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] wise use?
Anybody every investigate these people? Is this one of the Wise Use groups? Gretchen Randall, Director John P. McGovern, MD Center for Environmental and Regulatory Affairs The National Center for Public Policy Research Contact the author at: 773-857-5086 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] The National Center for Public Policy Research, Chicago office 3712 North Broadway - PMB 279 Chicago, IL 60613 http://www.nationalcenter.org/ The National Center for Public Policy Research - Conservative Think Tank For example: http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA412.html National Policy Analysis #412: Kyoto Global Warming Treaty Losing Support Around the World While Thriving in U.S. Senate - June 2002 The U.S. Senate has packed its energy bill with massive new greenhouse gas and global warming provisions, even though the Kyoto Protocol, commonly referred to as the global warming treaty, is all but dead as leaders in nation after nation take a fresh look at the flawed treaty. Meanwhile: Japan ratifies Kyoto Protocol, urges other nations to follow (eTaiwanNews - 19:01 4 Jun 2002) EU ratifies Kyoto Protocol (Eu Business - 7:06 4 Jun 2002) Etc etc etc. In spite of the awesome weight of the US, in most industrialised nations the Kyoto Protocol isn't even a political issue anymore, it's just a fact of life. Different planet, apparently. Second, many scientists, including Richard Lindzen of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Salllie Baliunas and Willie Soon of Harvard University, have correctly pointed out that none of the global warming predicted by computer models has occurred. Further, they have raised strong doubts that mankind can affect climate at all. Meanwhile: June 3, 2002 Climate Changing, U.S. Says in Report By ANDREW C. REVKIN http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/03/science/03CLIM.html?pagewanted=print position=top In a stark shift for the Bush administration, the United States has sent a climate report to the United Nations detailing specific and far-reaching effects that it says global warming will inflict on the American environment. In the report, the administration for the first time mostly blames human actions for recent global warming. It says the main culprit is the burning of fossil fuels that send heat-trapping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. To which the National Center for Public Policy Research publishes a laughably weak rebuttal. Quite surprising they couldn't do better than this: http://www.nationalcenter.org/PRGW602.html Press Release: Bush Endorsement of Global Warming Theory Wrongly Reported - June 2002 Nah - he didn't say it's dark, he just said there wasn't any light. From PR Watch: http://www.prwatch.org/ The National Center for Public Policy Research (NCPPR) was formed in the 1980s to support the Reagan administration's military adventures in Central America. It now calls itself a communications and research foundation dedicated to providing free market solutions to today's public policy problems. They support Big Tobacco, funding from Philip Morris, R.J. Reynolds, etc. Anyway, you get the picture. Auto mileage standards kill Americans. Why doesn't anyone care? And so on. Sort of like Alex Avery of the Hudson Institute announcing that Organic farming could kill billions of people, LOL! Same sort of folks, same sort of distortion and outright BS, same sort of backers, same sort of science. Same tactics. Best Keith -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Shell article
Keith No, sorry I just remember seeing the name Shell and I didn't save the article. Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Then I'm puzzled - I don't know of Shell doing anything with biodiesel and haven't seen such an article. Can't find anything in the archives either. Maybe it was on another list? Best Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently there was an article about Shell and biodiesel on this website - can someone please send me [EMAIL PROTECTED] a copy of it, or put it on this site again thanks? Philip Can you be more specific? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 06:13:51PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Harmon That's the first I've heard of anyone proposing to retard timing to lower NOx -- is anyone actually doing this? A catalytic converter would do the job with no loss of power or milage, and no increase in particulates. Of course, you couldn't run our high sulfur dinodiesel thru it then, but certainly you'd have problems running dinodiesel anyway if you retarded the injection timing, more smoke, less power, poor milage, etc. Bad idea all the way around. No, not a bad idea, it's more or less standard practice. There's some argument about whether it should be by 2 deg or 3 deg, which I guess depends on the motor. It reduces NOx emissions, and raises PM emissions slightly, but since PM emissions are reduced so much anyway, you can end up with PM still way below petro-diesel level and NOx the same or below, general gains. Plenty of references here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html NOx emissions and biodiesel Retarded fuel injection timing reduced NOx emissions while maintaining the other emissions reductions. Etc etc. Why not leave the timing alone, and add a catalytic converter? You could even put in a Y pipe with a valve before the converter in case you had to run dinodiesel at some point. I know on the VW diesel list many people (although not, perhaps, those running biodiesel) have found it more efficient to advance the injection time over stock at bit, gives more power and milage and less smoke. So do the same with the BD engine, add the converter for NOx, and pollute much less over all. I know that gasoline engine makers were (are?) using an ignition retarding scheme to lower NOx, something which never made good sense to me. If you lower the engine's efficiency by retarding timing, and then use more fuel, it would seem the net effect is more pollution overall, i.e., a smaller engine running at top efficieny using less fuel pollutes less than a larger engine de-tuned by various emission-control schemes which get lower milage -- which is what most of the car makers (US anyway) have decided upon, big engine gas guzzlers that meet emission standards. I'm very much concerned with clear air, but measuring the percentage of NOx and ignoring the overall greater volume of exhaust coming out of a bigger engine doesn't make sense to me, but then neither do a lot of things. 8-) -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
Kieth: How nice of you to post (see below) the accurate remarks of mine. As you can see, it says MANY urchins on this site. It does not say ALL on this site are urchins. I have respect for those who strive to make this site productive and you tops the list. It is unfortunate that in your earnestness you have inadvertently included yourself in that list of many urchins. You even took step to include others in the list! When I say urchins in this site, it does not mean all of those who come on this site are urchins. Sure those who concentrate on arguing on personal issues are urchins. Of course, personal attacks do appear frequently in this site. So, I openly said there are some urchins here. If we are matured people, we should not waste our time ( and others time) on personal attacks! We all are interested to see BD issues discussed and we are here to learn from those who know things (BD) better than us. Is it not a waste of time and efforts to attack one another on personal basis? I called such people urchins. I did not mean they are bad, but just urchins who do not know how they are wasting their (and others') time and energy. They are just like inexperienced kids! That is all to it! Now, I prefer not to fall into the same trap. Instead, let me go along learning more about BD from other ones who are NOT urchins in this site (the ones who are learned and experienced ones). Hope this makes those who are not urchins in this site happy. If anyone in this site feels that he or she falls into the category of learned ones, then, my observation does not apply to them, and so, they should not be concerned and hence, they would ignore useless things and get along with their productive work. On the other hand, if any one feels my observations and remarks directly apply to their activities, then, is it not time for them to look into themselves? I decide NOT to waste other peoples' time any more. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: Shukrainternationals Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks chandra_the_good wrote, getting it all wrong as usual: On the lighter side of the issue though: Once, by mistake, I placed a statement (below) on this site (while trying to send it to a friend of mine privately): It said, you know, Tom, this site is crowed with urchins, so, don't worry. Now, I feel was not wrong after all!! :). Now, again, this on the lighter side of life please :) - It means 'smile'. First it wasn't this site (list), it was the Biofuels-biz list. Second, you've misquoted yourself - this is what you said: Tom: I see a response from David Teal to your posting on the web. I suggest you just ignore it and continue with our project. As I said, these are many urchins on that web site and we should try to stay above them. -Chandra This was in response to several posts that questioned an original post which that person (Tom) subsequently withdrew, with apologies. Your urchins, which included me and others along with David Teal, have all contributed a great deal to the biofuels movement, whereas if you've contributed anything at all except snide comments that you then slide away from when challenged, and requests for other people to do your homework for you, it's remarkably invisible. At the time, all concerned refrained from stirring the issue up any further by challenging you over this as you deserved. They showed restraint - unlike you, here and now. Typical chandra_the_good, pretending to be promoting peace, sweetness and light and pouring oil on troubled waters, but in fact just insulting people, and the whole list, and trying to stir it up. You just don't realise how transparent you are, Chandra, but everyone else can see it. I know that because many of them tell me so off-list. So, no sliding away this time, explain yourself please. Response required, on-list, and make it snappy. Keith Addison Moderator - Original Message - From: Tee To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 5:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks Sad what this list has come too. Name calling and put downs the tools of small minded people. The article is being reported by many sources and if you feel it needs to be debunked. Then by all means have at it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 04:26:16AM -, motie_d wrote: I'm hesitant to jump into the middle of a hot debate, but IMHO the reason Cummins doesn't (not can't) build better Diesel engines, is the same reason Mercedes VW etc. won't/don't sell them here. Very poor fuel! Yes -- but it's the US auto industry, working hand and glove with Big Oil, who has shot down attempts to clean up diesel fuel. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- because we know if Detroit started demanding cleaner fuel, it would be happen quickly, but we also know the incestuous relationship there where the oil companies help the auto companies fight off milage requirements and then they return the favor via the clean fuel issue. A provocative thought...Who is really more technically advanced? The engine builders that can only use highly refined European fuels, or the ones who can run on the junk fuel we have in the US? Are we maybe comparing Apples and Oranges? It's not only who is more advanced, but who is more responsible. Let's face it, the US auto industry has built junk for decades. Think about it -- isn't it much easier to build a a low-efficiency engine that burns low quality fuel and gets low milage than to design a hi-tech engine that takes advantage of better fuel? Would it be a fair comparison to run a European engine on our junk fuel, and an American engine on European fuel? Which manufacturers will willingly provide warranty service for their engine if such a test were to be scheduled? My understanding is that the European (and Japanese) engines don't have that much problem running on our fuel, they just can't meet emission tests when they do, and why should they be expected to? Both industry and gov't knew decades ago that fuels needed to be cleaned up -- what are they waiting for? It should have been mandated 20 years ago. Instead we see the EPA blocking small biodiesel production -- what a sick joke. High sulfur fuel and coal is responsible for acid rain, we've known this for at least 40 years -- why is it still being burned and clean fuels being stonewalled? Pretty sick. I think we need much tighter controls on the trucking industry all across the board -- both in air pollution and noise pollution, why should they be exempt? Same with tractors and construction equipment and boats and planes. For some time now I've been thinking of starting a website to solicit funds for a class action lawsuit against Harley-Davidson for building an unsafe product - unsafe in that they violate all motor vehcle muffler laws right out of the showroom. It would be a pretty easy case to win, and the funds generated could then be used to hit all the other manufacturers of noisy machines. Back in '62 a friend of mine bought a brand new BMW motorcycle. It was so quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand on it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for all those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff has been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? I think it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho I'll do what I want and to hell with everybody else attitude we see so prevalent in US foreign policy and everything else. I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 06:13:51PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Harmon That's the first I've heard of anyone proposing to retard timing to lower NOx -- is anyone actually doing this? A catalytic converter would do the job with no loss of power or milage, and no increase in particulates. Of course, you couldn't run our high sulfur dinodiesel thru it then, but certainly you'd have problems running dinodiesel anyway if you retarded the injection timing, more smoke, less power, poor milage, etc. Bad idea all the way around. No, not a bad idea, it's more or less standard practice. There's some argument about whether it should be by 2 deg or 3 deg, which I guess depends on the motor. It reduces NOx emissions, and raises PM emissions slightly, but since PM emissions are reduced so much anyway, you can end up with PM still way below petro-diesel level and NOx the same or below, general gains. Plenty of references here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html NOx emissions and biodiesel Retarded fuel injection timing reduced NOx emissions while maintaining the other emissions reductions. Etc etc. Why not leave the timing alone, and add a catalytic converter? Yes, you can do that, or both. Catalytic converters aren't too cheap though, AFAIK. But people say their motors run better on biod with the injection timing slightly retarded. You could even put in a Y pipe with a valve before the converter in case you had to run dinodiesel at some point. I know on the VW diesel list many people (although not, perhaps, those running biodiesel) have found it more efficient to advance the injection time over stock at bit, gives more power and milage and less smoke. So do the same with the BD engine, add the converter for NOx, and pollute much less over all. I know that gasoline engine makers were (are?) using an ignition retarding scheme to lower NOx, something which never made good sense to me. If you lower the engine's efficiency by retarding timing, and then use more fuel, it would seem the net effect is more pollution overall, i.e., a smaller engine running at top efficieny using less fuel pollutes less than a larger engine de-tuned by various emission-control schemes which get lower milage -- which is what most of the car makers (US anyway) have decided upon, big engine gas guzzlers that meet emission standards. I'm very much concerned with clear air, but measuring the percentage of NOx and ignoring the overall greater volume of exhaust coming out of a bigger engine doesn't make sense to me, but then neither do a lot of things. 8-) But biodiesel has a higher cetane number than dino. So maybe you wouldn't be lowering efficiency, just equalising it. Dunno, not my area of expertise, if indeed I have such a thing, but it is the area of expertise of the folks doing the tests reported on the NOx emissions and biodiesel page. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_nox.html I'm no automatic respecter of experts, but that's quite a range of different people, some of whom I've been in correspondence with, and it's corraborated by user reports. Regards Keith -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 09:18:41PM +0900, Keith Addison wrote: Why not leave the timing alone, and add a catalytic converter? Yes, you can do that, or both. Catalytic converters aren't too cheap though, AFAIK. But people say their motors run better on biod with the injection timing slightly retarded. Maybe. It might make sense if we had good supplies of BD all over, and I suppose someone who makes their own and only drives that car locally would be okay, but the minute you start burning dinodiesel again on a trip, you'll be putting a lot more pollution than saved before -- and more visible pollution to boot, giving more ammo for the anti-diesel crowd. When BD becomes omnipresent, I'd expect we'll see engines built just for it that will far exceed what we know today in many respects. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
Okay...Nothing more inviting in a discussion than all-encompassing, generally sweeping statements like the one below. Don't suppose anyone has ever calculated the proportions of road tax expenditures to see how much went to bicycle paths, how much went to pot holes and by-passes and how much went to tarmac and terminals? I certainly wouldn't mind seeing $7,000 from each trucker in the US go to nothing but bike paths for an entire year - or just one or two good transcontinental bike lanes on an existing highway so those who long to travel by bicycle no longer have to be as concerned with the numerous motor vehicle operators who can't tell the difference and all too frequently could care less what the difference is between a family of opossums and a half dozen bicyclists. Just a thought from someone who would still be riding ~500 miles a week if they hadn't already been forced off the road ~20 times in less than 2 years by ijuts who got their license out of a Cracker Jack box. Todd Swearingen Harmon, Having been involved in trucking for over 25 years, I believe you have some serious misperceptions about trucking and truckers. We would LOVE to see fuel taxes spent on highway repairs. The last fuel increase was widely supported by truckers, in the mistaken belief that it would be spent on highway repairs. It was not! It was spent on paving bicycle paths and airport runways. The average truck(if there is such a thing) spends $7000/year in road-use taxes. Now if we could only get it spent on roads, instead of bicycle paths and airport runways and new city transit buses, we could all be happier. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
Chandra Kieth: How nice of you to post (see below) the accurate remarks of mine. As you can see, it says MANY urchins on this site. It does not say ALL on this site are urchins. I have respect for those who strive to make this site productive and you tops the list. It is unfortunate that in your earnestness you have inadvertently included yourself in that list of many urchins. You even took step to include others in the list! It was clear what you meant and who you were directing it at and I have not misinterpreted it. Nor have I misinterpreted your ill-masked intentions in posting it again here now: ... pretending to be promoting peace, sweetness and light and pouring oil on troubled waters, but in fact just insulting people, and the whole list, and trying to stir it up. When I say urchins in this site, it does not mean all of those who come on this site are urchins. Sure those who concentrate on arguing on personal issues are urchins. Of course, personal attacks do appear frequently in this site. So, I openly said there are some urchins here. If we are matured people, we should not waste our time ( and others time) on personal attacks! That depends. I'm attacking you personally right now, and it's because of your consistent behaviour here, not my lack of maturity. And your rationalisations fail to address that. We all are interested to see BD issues discussed and we are here to learn from those who know things (BD) better than us. Is it not a waste of time and efforts to attack one another on personal basis? I called such people urchins. I did not mean they are bad, but just urchins who do not know how they are wasting their (and others') time and energy. They are just like inexperienced kids! That is all to it! No it's not, it's seldom that simple, as indeed in this case that you butted into. I doubt they'll go too far but if they do I'll be the one to stop them, that's my job, not yours. And I don't believe that was your intention. Now, I prefer not to fall into the same trap. You did just that. In fact you leapt into it with some glee, and not for the first time. Instead, let me go along learning more about BD from other ones who are NOT urchins in this site (the ones who are learned and experienced ones). Hope this makes those who are not urchins in this site happy. I doubt anyone will accept your definitions. I certainly don't. If anyone in this site feels that he or she falls into the category of learned ones, then, my observation does not apply to them, and so, they should not be concerned and hence, they would ignore useless things and get along with their productive work. On the other hand, if any one feels my observations and remarks directly apply to their activities, then, is it not time for them to look into themselves? It was time for you to look into yourself, you were called upon to do so and you've failed to do so. I decide NOT to waste other peoples' time any more. You should take that decision seriously Chandra. There might not be a next time. This discussion is now closed. Keith Addison Moderator - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: Shukrainternationals Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 5:13 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks chandra_the_good wrote, getting it all wrong as usual: On the lighter side of the issue though: Once, by mistake, I placed a statement (below) on this site (while trying to send it to a friend of mine privately): It said, you know, Tom, this site is crowed with urchins, so, don't worry. Now, I feel was not wrong after all!! :). Now, again, this on the lighter side of life please :) - It means 'smile'. First it wasn't this site (list), it was the Biofuels-biz list. Second, you've misquoted yourself - this is what you said: Tom: I see a response from David Teal to your posting on the web. I suggest you just ignore it and continue with our project. As I said, these are many urchins on that web site and we should try to stay above them. -Chandra This was in response to several posts that questioned an original post which that person (Tom) subsequently withdrew, with apologies. Your urchins, which included me and others along with David Teal, have all contributed a great deal to the biofuels movement, whereas if you've contributed anything at all except snide comments that you then slide away from when challenged, and requests for other people to do your homework for you, it's remarkably invisible. At the time, all concerned refrained from stirring the issue up any further by challenging you over this as you deserved. They showed restraint - unlike you, here and now. Typical chandra_the_good, pretending to be promoting peace, sweetness and light and pouring oil on troubled waters, but in fact just insulting people, and the whole list, and trying to
Re: [biofuel] blend biodiesel/svo
We often blend some biodiesel in with WVO in winter. Since WVO tends to be higher viscosity than SVO, this thins it down to more like new oil and improves flow. It still gets heated, though. In fact, heating biodiesel itself is not a bad idea either, especially in colder weather. The cloud point of spec. biodiesel is +4 degrees C, whereas winter diesel is maybe -10 or so, depending on where you live. So, even biodesel users benefit from heating at least part of the year. Regards, Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 6/7/02 2:13 AM, Keith Addison at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Conrad wrote: any one had experience using biodiesel to thin svo or wvo to make a less costly fuel. I read about using dinodiesel or kerosene as a thinner so as not to have to heat it up to burn. Sure, you can do that, better than dino or kero. But I wouldn't conclude that you don't have to heat it up anyway. The same provisos would apply, only less so. See Guide to using vegetable oil as diesel fuel: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties
Heres some additional excerpts that might be helpful for ethanol Biodiesel included correlation between Cloud/Pour Points BD Cetane ** Alternatives to Traditional Transportation Fuels: An Overview June 1994 149 page, 1239K PDF http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/FTPROOT/alternativefuels/0585o.pdf Cetane The combustion and ignition characteristics of diesel engine fuels are expressed in the cetane number. Fuels with high cetane numbers have low autoignition temperatures and short ignition delay times. Since a high octane number means a low cetane number (see Chapter 7), Cetane Number The most important engine performance property of diesel is the cetane number, which is a measure of the ease with which fuel will self-ignite under compression. The delay between the time the fuel hits the hot compressed air and when it ignites depends to a large extent on hydrocarbon composition. The higher the cetane number, the shorter the ignition delay and the better the engine performance. Cetane number is highest for linear paraffins, and lowest for aromatics as shown below: Fuel Component Contribution to Cetane Number Aro- Naph- Branched Linear BranchedLinear matics thenes Olefins Olefins ParaffinsParaffins -Increasing Cetane Number -Increasing Octane Number A high octane number, desirable for gasoline, means high aromatics and low linear paraffins, whereas the opposite is true for cetane numbers. Higher aromatic content means a lower cetane number and poorer diesel engine performance, as well as increased particulate formation. In spark-ignition engines, aromatics are good for engine performance but bad for emissions. In compression-ignition engines, aromatics are bad for both performance and emissions. Thus, in the case of diesel, there is no tradeoff between performance and emissions regarding aromatics. Low cetane number and associated long ignition delay cause rough engine operation, misfiring, and incomplete combustion in a cold engine at low temperatures, resulting in power loss and exhaust smoke. Vehicle/Engine Systems Alcohol-Fueled Vehicles [Such as methanol ethanol] AFVs, including near-neat alcohol vehicles, are being used to gain environmental benefits and enhance energy security by using a nonpetroleum-based fuel. However, these vehicles have some disadvantages which offset some of the benefits. Engine Systems. Since alcohol fuels are high-octane fuels, flexible-fueled engines are optimized with a somewhat advanced ignition timing and an adjusted air/fuel ratio. An optimized ethanol engine could exhibit a theoretical efficiency gain of 15 percent over an optimized gasoline engine. But theoretical efficiencies usually are not fully realized. For example, one test using E-95 showed efficiency improvements of 8 percent when increasing the compression ratio from 8 to 12, while 12- percent improvement was expected from theoretical considerations. [MH: A report done by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) has similar comments issued March 1993. ] Autoignition Temperature Autoignition temperature is a measure of when a fuel will selfignite. Self-ignition is a concern in environments where the fuel might escape and come into contact with hot engine parts. As a safety feature, high autoignition temperatures are desirable. Hydrogen has the highest autoignition temperature at about 1,065 degrees Fahrenheit, followed by natural gas, propane, methanol, and ethanol. Gasoline and diesel have the lowest autoignition temperatures at 495 and 600 degrees Fahrenheit, respectively. Based on this measure, all the alternative fuels have an advantage over gasoline. While both natural gas and hydrogen have high autoignition temperatures, they require very different amounts of energy to ignite mixtures of fuel and air. Since natural gas fuel/air mixtures are difficult to ignite, natural-gas-fueled engines must use high-energy spark plugs. Hydrogen fuel/air mixtures, on the other hand, need very little energy to ignite. For stoichiometric fuel/air ratios, hydrogen requires about one-tenth the energy to ignite that hydrocarbon fuels require. Flashpoint The flashpoint is the lowest temperature at which combustible mixtures of fuel vapor and air form above the fuel. In the presence of a spark, such mixtures will ignite. A high flashpoint is desirable from a safety standpoint, but none of the alternative fuels has an advantage in this area. All fuels but diesel have flashpoints at ambient or lower than ambient temperatures; however, the alcohol fuels have higher flashpoints than gasoline. Heat of Vaporization Heat of vaporization affects engine power and efficiency. It is the amount of heat absorbed by a fuel as it evaporates from a liquid state, which occurs when the fuel is mixed with air prior to combustion. Higher heat
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
hello Keith: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html Carlos - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information I am knew in thsi list. I would like to produce sunflower oil and I don't know what kind of equipment i should use. Could you help me? And, do you usually burn it with glicerin or take it out? What about motor problems after 200 hours for waste acumulation inside motor? regards, See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Biofuels supplies and suppliers: Oilseed presses regards Keith Addison Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties
Hoagy you're a mine of information, and it just keeps right on coming! Thanks very much, it's much appreciated. Would this contribute to worn injector pumps besides solvent characteristics in diesel fuels? I don't think the wax will, it just clogs the filters. Lower-cetane winterized BD? Dunno. I doubt the additives would decrease the lubricity. Regards Keith Heres some additional excerpts that might be helpful for ethanol Biodiesel included correlation between Cloud/Pour Points BD Cetane ** Alternatives to Traditional Transportation Fuels: An Overview June 1994 149 page, 1239K PDF http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/FTPROOT/alternativefuels/0585o.pdf Cetane The combustion and ignition characteristics of diesel engine fuels are expressed in the cetane number. Fuels with high cetane numbers have low autoignition temperatures and short ignition delay times. Since a high octane number means a low cetane number (see Chapter 7), Cetane Number The most important engine performance property of diesel is the cetane number, which is a measure of the ease with which fuel will self-ignite under compression. The delay between the time the fuel hits the hot compressed air and when it ignites depends to a large extent on hydrocarbon composition. The higher the cetane number, the shorter the ignition delay and the better the engine performance. Cetane number is highest for linear paraffins, and lowest for aromatics as shown below: Fuel Component Contribution to Cetane Number Aro- Naph- Branched Linear BranchedLinear matics thenes Olefins Olefins ParaffinsParaffins -Increasing Cetane Number -Increasing Octane Number A high octane number, desirable for gasoline, means high aromatics and low linear paraffins, whereas the opposite is true for cetane numbers. Higher aromatic content means a lower cetane number and poorer diesel engine performance, as well as increased particulate formation. In spark-ignition engines, aromatics are good for engine performance but bad for emissions. In compression-ignition engines, aromatics are bad for both performance and emissions. Thus, in the case of diesel, there is no tradeoff between performance and emissions regarding aromatics. Low cetane number and associated long ignition delay cause rough engine operation, misfiring, and incomplete combustion in a cold engine at low temperatures, resulting in power loss and exhaust smoke. Vehicle/Engine Systems Alcohol-Fueled Vehicles [Such as methanol ethanol] AFVs, including near-neat alcohol vehicles, are being used to gain environmental benefits and enhance energy security by using a nonpetroleum-based fuel. However, these vehicles have some disadvantages which offset some of the benefits. Engine Systems. Since alcohol fuels are high-octane fuels, flexible-fueled engines are optimized with a somewhat advanced ignition timing and an adjusted air/fuel ratio. An optimized ethanol engine could exhibit a theoretical efficiency gain of 15 percent over an optimized gasoline engine. But theoretical efficiencies usually are not fully realized. For example, one test using E-95 showed efficiency improvements of 8 percent when increasing the compression ratio from 8 to 12, while 12- percent improvement was expected from theoretical considerations. [MH: A report done by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) has similar comments issued March 1993. ] Autoignition Temperature Autoignition temperature is a measure of when a fuel will selfignite. Self-ignition is a concern in environments where the fuel might escape and come into contact with hot engine parts. As a safety feature, high autoignition temperatures are desirable. Hydrogen has the highest autoignition temperature at about 1,065 degrees Fahrenheit, followed by natural gas, propane, methanol, and ethanol. Gasoline and diesel have the lowest autoignition temperatures at 495 and 600 degrees Fahrenheit, respectively. Based on this measure, all the alternative fuels have an advantage over gasoline. While both natural gas and hydrogen have high autoignition temperatures, they require very different amounts of energy to ignite mixtures of fuel and air. Since natural gas fuel/air mixtures are difficult to ignite, natural-gas-fueled engines must use high-energy spark plugs. Hydrogen fuel/air mixtures, on the other hand, need very little energy to ignite. For stoichiometric fuel/air ratios, hydrogen requires about one-tenth the energy to ignite that hydrocarbon fuels require. Flashpoint The flashpoint is the lowest temperature at which combustible mixtures of fuel vapor and air form above the fuel. In the presence of a spark, such mixtures will ignite. A high flashpoint is desirable from a safety standpoint, but none of the alternative fuels has an advantage in this area. All fuels but diesel have
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Carlos writes: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html All I can see on that site is an expeller press that weighs 500 kg and processes 125 kg of seed per hour. My guess at the price is in the range of $15,000 USD. (I didn't see a price on the website). Maybe I'm not on the right page -- this is hardly tiny. How about one that weighs 20 kg, processes 5 kg of seed per hour, and costs $300 USD? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: ignition retarding
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm no automatic respecter of experts, You and I are in complete agreement here! LOL ;-) Motie but that's quite a range of different people, some of whom I've been in correspondence with, and it's corraborated by user reports. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties
I belive Heat of Vaporization is irrelavant in a diesel, as cooling is not important, and detonation is not possable. The artical does not mention that. I would like verification of my understanding. Thanks Eric From: MH Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties snip Heat of Vaporization Heat of vaporization affects engine power and efficiency. It is the amount of heat absorbed by a fuel as it evaporates from a liquid state, which occurs when the fuel is mixed with air prior to combustion. Higher heat of vaporization leads to improved cooling ability. Higher cooling during the intake stroke of a spark-ignition engine results in a denser air/fuel mixture. A denser mixture has two effects: (1) it allows for greater power, and (2) it permits a greater compression ratio, which improves power and efficiency. However, although a high heat of vaporization improves power and efficiency, it also adds to coldstart problems when there is little heat in the air or in the engine to vaporize the fuel prior to spark ignition. The alcohol fuels have much higher heats of vaporization than gasoline or diesel. sniped _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] FYI-VW's policy on using Biodiesel in US TDIs
Is this a crock, or is rapeseed BD superior, from a mechanical standpoint, to soybean BD? -Original Message- Thank you for visiting the Volkswagen Web site. We appreciate your inquiry on Volkswagen's position on using biodiesel fuel. B100 stands for 100% biodiesel. It is a diesel fuel derived from biomass feedstock such as soybeans. It can be blended with regular diesel fuel (B20 = 20% biodiesel/80% regular diesel, for example). In Europe our diesel engines are certified to operate any blend of the biodiesel that is available in Europe. European biodiesel is different than biodiesel in the U.S. since it is produced from different feedstock (the rapeseed plant versus the soy plant). Our parent company does not agree with the specifications for biodiesel in the U.S. and does not recommend its use in any percentage. Using biodiesel will invalidate our warranty. If you have any further questions or concerns, please contact Volkswagen Customer Care at 800-822-8987. Thank you for your submission. Dani Volktalk -Original Message- Comments : Hi, I own a 00 Jetta TDI and I have a question about VWoA's attitude about the use of Bio-Diesel or any of its blends, and the honoring of any warranty work done on a car that uses Bio-Diesel... I would like to start using Bio-Diesel, but not if it voids my warranty Thank You [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
It also keeps European mfg out of their backyard thereby solving the competition issue. The Fortune 500 are in business to make money. Any social issues they involve themselves in go to their making money. That is the alpha and the omega of it. Kirk -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:07 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 04:26:16AM -, motie_d wrote: I'm hesitant to jump into the middle of a hot debate, but IMHO the reason Cummins doesn't (not can't) build better Diesel engines, is the same reason Mercedes VW etc. won't/don't sell them here. Very poor fuel! Yes -- but it's the US auto industry, working hand and glove with Big Oil, who has shot down attempts to clean up diesel fuel. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- because we know if Detroit started demanding cleaner fuel, it would be happen quickly, but we also know the incestuous relationship there where the oil companies help the auto companies fight off milage requirements and then they return the favor via the clean fuel issue. A provocative thought...Who is really more technically advanced? The engine builders that can only use highly refined European fuels, or the ones who can run on the junk fuel we have in the US? Are we maybe comparing Apples and Oranges? It's not only who is more advanced, but who is more responsible. Let's face it, the US auto industry has built junk for decades. Think about it -- isn't it much easier to build a a low-efficiency engine that burns low quality fuel and gets low milage than to design a hi-tech engine that takes advantage of better fuel? Would it be a fair comparison to run a European engine on our junk fuel, and an American engine on European fuel? Which manufacturers will willingly provide warranty service for their engine if such a test were to be scheduled? My understanding is that the European (and Japanese) engines don't have that much problem running on our fuel, they just can't meet emission tests when they do, and why should they be expected to? Both industry and gov't knew decades ago that fuels needed to be cleaned up -- what are they waiting for? It should have been mandated 20 years ago. Instead we see the EPA blocking small biodiesel production -- what a sick joke. High sulfur fuel and coal is responsible for acid rain, we've known this for at least 40 years -- why is it still being burned and clean fuels being stonewalled? Pretty sick. I think we need much tighter controls on the trucking industry all across the board -- both in air pollution and noise pollution, why should they be exempt? Same with tractors and construction equipment and boats and planes. For some time now I've been thinking of starting a website to solicit funds for a class action lawsuit against Harley-Davidson for building an unsafe product - unsafe in that they violate all motor vehcle muffler laws right out of the showroom. It would be a pretty easy case to win, and the funds generated could then be used to hit all the other manufacturers of noisy machines. Back in '62 a friend of mine bought a brand new BMW motorcycle. It was so quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand on it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for all those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff has been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? I think it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho I'll do what I want and to hell with everybody else attitude we see so prevalent in US foreign policy and everything else. I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To
RE: [biofuel] Mistake
Thank you all for a waste of my time. I thought by joining this group I may receive valuable information on BioDiesel for a project I am working on. Instead I read 50 emails a day from losers being hateful to each other at 4 am. It is very disappointing. So farewell, enjoy your pathetic ways. I will instead seek other avenues for my knowledge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
hello Keith: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html Carlos Hello Carlos I believe that press is already on the page I referred to below: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Biofuels supplies and suppliers: Oilseed presses Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information I am knew in thsi list. I would like to produce sunflower oil and I don't know what kind of equipment i should use. Could you help me? And, do you usually burn it with glicerin or take it out? What about motor problems after 200 hours for waste acumulation inside motor? regards, See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Biofuels supplies and suppliers: Oilseed presses regards Keith Addison Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Carlos writes: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html All I can see on that site is an expeller press that weighs 500 kg and processes 125 kg of seed per hour. My guess at the price is in the range of $15,000 USD. (I didn't see a price on the website). Maybe I'm not on the right page -- this is hardly tiny. How about one that weighs 20 kg, processes 5 kg of seed per hour, and costs $300 USD? Hi Ken Komet, Taby, Dong Kwang all do something like that, dunno about the prices though. Details here - Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
It seems the whole of US manufacturing is blatantly unintelligent, at times vigorously so. They seemed focused on partnerships and friend ships like its a high school popularity contest! I think I should have to disagree about the loud pipes on bikes though. We know that 4 out of 5 motorcycle accidents are the cars fault. Cars notice bikes with loud pipes. I understand that loud pipes save lives. Would you say safety would allow loud pipes on bikes? No reason, and good reason not to, on motor boats, i would guess I'm hesitant to jump into the middle of a hot debate, but IMHO the reason Cummins doesn't (not can't) build better Diesel engines, is the same reason Mercedes VW etc. won't/don't sell them here. Very poor fuel! Yes -- but it's the US auto industry, working hand and glove with Big Oil, who has shot down attempts to clean up diesel fuel. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- because we know if Detroit started demanding cleaner fuel, it would be happen quickly, but we also know the incestuous relationship there where the oil companies help the auto companies fight off milage requirements and then they return the favor via the clean fuel issue. A provocative thought...Who is really more technically advanced? The engine builders that can only use highly refined European fuels, or the ones who can run on the junk fuel we have in the US? Are we maybe comparing Apples and Oranges? It's not only who is more advanced, but who is more responsible. Let's face it, the US auto industry has built junk for decades. Think about it -- isn't it much easier to build a a low-efficiency engine that burns low quality fuel and gets low milage than to design a hi-tech engine that takes advantage of better fuel? Would it be a fair comparison to run a European engine on our junk fuel, and an American engine on European fuel? Which manufacturers will willingly provide warranty service for their engine if such a test were to be scheduled? My understanding is that the European (and Japanese) engines don't have that much problem running on our fuel, they just can't meet emission tests when they do, and why should they be expected to? Both industry and gov't knew decades ago that fuels needed to be cleaned up -- what are they waiting for? It should have been mandated 20 years ago. Instead we see the EPA blocking small biodiesel production -- what a sick joke. High sulfur fuel and coal is responsible for acid rain, we've known this for at least 40 years -- why is it still being burned and clean fuels being stonewalled? Pretty sick. I think we need much tighter controls on the trucking industry all across the board -- both in air pollution and noise pollution, why should they be exempt? Same with tractors and construction equipment and boats and planes. For some time now I've been thinking of starting a website to solicit funds for a class action lawsuit against Harley-Davidson for building an unsafe product - unsafe in that they violate all motor vehcle muffler laws right out of the showroom. It would be a pretty easy case to win, and the funds generated could then be used to hit all the other manufacturers of noisy machines. Back in '62 a friend of mine bought a brand new BMW motorcycle. It was so quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand on it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for all those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff has been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? I think it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho I'll do what I want and to hell with everybody else attitude we see so prevalent in US foreign policy and everything else. I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mistake
She should upgrade her computer to that new keyboard with the delete key. Must have struck a nerve somewhere in her psyche. Netetiquette Nanny. People that look a gift horse in the mouth. Contribute nothing and want data pre formatted and pre digested. And no personal comments in the process. Maybe she is an android? Kirk -Original Message- From: Lisa Musser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 1:41 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Mistake Thank you all for a waste of my time. I thought by joining this group I may receive valuable information on BioDiesel for a project I am working on. Instead I read 50 emails a day from losers being hateful to each other at 4 am. It is very disappointing. So farewell, enjoy your pathetic ways. I will instead seek other avenues for my knowledge. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties
Talking of heat of vaporization, I make a small device used for increasing power in spark ignited engines by water fog cooling the inlet mixture. Is named Aqua power and costs around U$S 10.- Regards Carlos - Original Message - From: Eric Ruttan To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties I belive Heat of Vaporization is irrelavant in a diesel, as cooling is not important, and detonation is not possable. The artical does not mention that. I would like verification of my understanding. Thanks Eric From: MH Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties snip Heat of Vaporization Heat of vaporization affects engine power and efficiency. It is the amount of heat absorbed by a fuel as it evaporates from a liquid state, which occurs when the fuel is mixed with air prior to combustion. Higher heat of vaporization leads to improved cooling ability. Higher cooling during the intake stroke of a spark-ignition engine results in a denser air/fuel mixture. A denser mixture has two effects: (1) it allows for greater power, and (2) it permits a greater compression ratio, which improves power and efficiency. However, although a high heat of vaporization improves power and efficiency, it also adds to coldstart problems when there is little heat in the air or in the engine to vaporize the fuel prior to spark ignition. The alcohol fuels have much higher heats of vaporization than gasoline or diesel. sniped _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
hello Ken: The Tiny oil mill for sunflower, rapeseed, soya, costs U$S 5000 FOB Small ones can be found at www.oilpress.com Carlos - Original Message - From: Ken Provost To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information Carlos writes: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html All I can see on that site is an expeller press that weighs 500 kg and processes 125 kg of seed per hour. My guess at the price is in the range of $15,000 USD. (I didn't see a price on the website). Maybe I'm not on the right page -- this is hardly tiny. How about one that weighs 20 kg, processes 5 kg of seed per hour, and costs $300 USD? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
I don't know what Carlos is talking about. He's seeing something that I'm not. I goto this URL and all that's there are three green industrial grinders. Not only are there no small presses, there are no prices, so what is he talking about when he states not expensive? Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information hello Keith: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html Carlos Hello Carlos Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Thanks Keith. My point exactly. Does anyone know where to buy a small oilpress THAT HAS THE PRICES on the same page? I went out to that swedish oilpress site, you know the one with the tractor and Volvo and what a mess that was. Farmers and HTML do not mix. Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information Carlos writes: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html All I can see on that site is an expeller press that weighs 500 kg and processes 125 kg of seed per hour. My guess at the price is in the range of $15,000 USD. (I didn't see a price on the website). Maybe I'm not on the right page -- this is hardly tiny. How about one that weighs 20 kg, processes 5 kg of seed per hour, and costs $300 USD? Hi Ken Komet, Taby, Dong Kwang all do something like that, dunno about the prices though. Details here - Oilseed presses http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html#Oilpress Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
YEAH! Ken's got the right idea. Does anyone within earshot of this email know about any American makers of oil presses? Jesse Parris | studio53 | graphics / web design | stamford, ct | 203.324.4371 www.jesseparris.com/Portfolio_Jesse_Parris/ - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information Carlos writes: you can see a small and not expensive oil press at www.savoiapower.com/tiny.html All I can see on that site is an expeller press that weighs 500 kg and processes 125 kg of seed per hour. My guess at the price is in the range of $15,000 USD. (I didn't see a price on the website). Maybe I'm not on the right page -- this is hardly tiny. How about one that weighs 20 kg, processes 5 kg of seed per hour, and costs $300 USD? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mistake
I think you confirmed this, and now you may leave because you are being hateful. Seriously, no one is hateful here, they may argue but is that being hateful? Arguing causes people to learn things and come up with new ideas. --- Lisa Musser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: from losers being hateful to each other = -Martin Klingensmith http://archive.nnytech.net/ http://devzero.ath.cx/ http://www.nnytech.net/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mistake
Lisa Musser wrote: Thank you all for a waste of my time. I thought by joining this group I may receive valuable information on BioDiesel for a project I am working on. Instead I read 50 emails a day from losers being hateful to each other at 4 am. It is very disappointing. So farewell, enjoy your pathetic ways. I will instead seek other avenues for my knowledge. Ask and it shall be given thee. Bit pathetic not to ask and then whinge when you don't get the answer you didn't ask for. Losers being hateful to each other... ah well, 4am, I guess you forgot to switch channels or something. You've only been here three days, and that's the best you can do? Come on, give it another try, eh? What is it you want to know? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties
Talking of heat of vaporization, I make a small device used for increasing power in spark ignited engines by water fog cooling the inlet mixture. Is named Aqua power and costs around U$S 10.- Regards Carlos ... the original of which is, I suspect, to be found here: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel: Ron Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System No? Please don't try and sell it to us when you got it from us in the first place. Keith - Original Message - From: Eric Ruttan To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties I belive Heat of Vaporization is irrelavant in a diesel, as cooling is not important, and detonation is not possable. The artical does not mention that. I would like verification of my understanding. Thanks Eric From: MH Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding cetane fuel properties snip Heat of Vaporization Heat of vaporization affects engine power and efficiency. It is the amount of heat absorbed by a fuel as it evaporates from a liquid state, which occurs when the fuel is mixed with air prior to combustion. Higher heat of vaporization leads to improved cooling ability. Higher cooling during the intake stroke of a spark-ignition engine results in a denser air/fuel mixture. A denser mixture has two effects: (1) it allows for greater power, and (2) it permits a greater compression ratio, which improves power and efficiency. However, although a high heat of vaporization improves power and efficiency, it also adds to coldstart problems when there is little heat in the air or in the engine to vaporize the fuel prior to spark ignition. The alcohol fuels have much higher heats of vaporization than gasoline or diesel. sniped Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay...Nothing more inviting in a discussion than all-encompassing, generally sweeping statements like the one below. Don't suppose anyone has ever calculated the proportions of road tax expenditures to see how much went to bicycle paths, how much went to pot holes and by-passes and how much went to tarmac and terminals? I certainly wouldn't mind seeing $7,000 from each trucker in the US go to nothing but bike paths for an entire year - or just one or two good transcontinental bike lanes on an existing highway so those who long to travel by bicycle no longer have to be as concerned with the numerous motor vehicle operators who can't tell the difference and all too frequently could care less what the difference is between a family of opossums and a half dozen bicyclists. Just a thought from someone who would still be riding ~500 miles a week if they hadn't already been forced off the road ~20 times in less than 2 years by ijuts who got their license out of a Cracker Jack box. Todd Swearingen Then why can't we tax bicycle riders and frequent fliers to pay for highway repairs? I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest, but why should truckers be singled out to pay for bicycle paths and airport runways? The increase I mentioned was $.05 gallon and was used for bicycle paths and other non-highway projects. That's pretty easily $5/day increase for truckers to pay. Why can't people who fly pay for runways, and bicyclists pay for bike paths, and transit bus users pay for transit buses? It's easy to ask for bigger and better things, when someone else has to pay for it. Over the last few years, local snowmobile clubs have roughly been assimilated by the Nanny State. Local clubs, using local resources, had a nice network of interconnected snowmobile trails. The State took over administraqtion of them, and raised the registration fees for snowmobiles. The money was then used to pave many of the trails for use by bicycles and In-line skaters. Now snowmobilers are banned from the trails they built because they damage the blacktop pavement. Many are hopeful that when the trails fall apart for lack of maintainance, snowmobiles will again be allowed to use them. I am not so optomistic. If the State doesn't collect enough revenue to pay for upkeep, they will be more likely to raise gas taxes on fisherman's boat motors to pay for it. Fishermen won't be allowed to use the trails either. Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: big snip It was so quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand on it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for all those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff has been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? Because that is what consumers will buy. If no one was buying Harleys because of the noise, they would quiet them down. In the trucking industry, new truck sales are skyrocketing, and so are newer used trucks. No one wants to buy the less-efficient engines that will require much more expensive maintainance that are being mandated. Check out Cummins' http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/trucks/isx.cfm website and their ISX engine. I prefer the higher torque of the 600 Signature Series, but the ISX is still pretty good at 1850 ft/lbs., and can meet emmissions standards. Mercedes or VW can't compare or compete. You admitted that European manufacturers can't meet our emmissions standards using our fuel. Cummins can. I think it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho I'll do what I want and to hell with everybody else attitude we see so prevalent in US foreign policy and everything else. I agree that may be a portion of the problem, but I think it mostly comes down to economics. I can't afford to pay an extra $5000 for an engine that gets less mileage, and needs more maintainance. How many people would buy a Mercedes, if they had to pay $5000 extra for an engine that has less horsepower and fuel economy? I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! A well-muffled and environmentally correct torpedo? Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Mistake
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She should upgrade her computer to that new keyboard with the delete key. Must have struck a nerve somewhere in her psyche. Netetiquette Nanny. People that look a gift horse in the mouth. Contribute nothing and want data pre formatted and pre digested. And no personal comments in the process. Maybe she is an android? Kirk We answered every question she ever asked, complete with links to further relevant info, right? What more does she expect? Answers to questions she never asked? Try a 'Google search under Psychics? Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Shell article
Now that I think about it, I remember an atrical with something about Shell. I do not remember were I saw it. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 04:55 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Shell article Keith No, sorry I just remember seeing the name Shell and I didn't save the article. Philip [EMAIL PROTECTED] Then I'm puzzled - I don't know of Shell doing anything with biodiesel and haven't seen such an article. Can't find anything in the archives either. Maybe it was on another list? Best Keith Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Recently there was an article about Shell and biodiesel on this website - can someone please send me [EMAIL PROTECTED] a copy of it, or put it on this site again thanks? Philip Can you be more specific? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Fw: [biofuel] Shell buys stake in bioethanol fuel firm Iogen
Is this the Shell artical ? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 04:20 Subject: [biofuel] Shell buys stake in bioethanol fuel firm Iogen http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/15883/story.htm Planet Ark : Shell buys stake in bioethanol fuel firm Iogen CANADA: May 9, 2002 CALGARY, Alberta - Canada's Iogen Energy Corp., developer of a process to turn forest and agricultural waste into a low-emissions auto fuel, has drawn a $29 million investment from oil giant Royal Dutch/Shell Group , which is on the prowl for alternative energy sources. Privately owned, Ottawa-based Iogen focuses on bioethanol, a high-octane alcohol formed by fermenting sugars found in plant fibre such as wood and straw. Its goal is to mass produce bioethanol, which can be blended with gasoline to produce a more environmentally friendly fuel. Shell, the Anglo-Dutch giant that owns 72 percent of Shell Canada Ltd. , the country's No. 2 integrated oil firm, will own just over 20 percent of Iogen in return for the investment, an Iogen executive said. Shell is not the first petroleum firm to pump money into Iogen, which employs about 100 people and owns a C$35 million ($22.3 million) demonstration plant. Petro-Canada , the country's No. 4 producer, refiner and marketer, provided seed funding in late 1997 that helped Iogen build its pilot plant in Ottawa. Lesley Taylor, a spokeswoman for Shell Canada, said Iogen's process could substantially reduce total greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles. In terms of of sustainable development, it would definitely be an interesting development for us, she said. We would be open to using (bioethanol) once it's commercially available and viable. Some Canadian fuel retailers, such as Husky Energy Inc. and Suncor Energy Inc. , already blend ethanol into their gasoline to reduce pollution. Most of the world's 30 billion litres a year of ethanol is produced from sugar cane in Brazil and from grains in the United States. In Brazil, the United States and Sweden it is already blended into gasoline. Royal Dutch/Shell Group said it recognized that fuel using such traditionally produced ethanol is unlikely to ever compete commercially with normal gasoline, but bioethanol offers a more economic and sustainable blending component. The firm has earmarked $500 million of investment over a five-year period for cleaner energy projects. REUTERS NEWS SERVICE Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fw: [green-energy-options] Shell WindEnergy Release from PR Newswire
Or is this the Shell artical? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Tom Gray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:48 Subject: [green-energy-options] Shell WindEnergy Release from PR Newswire Shell WindEnergy Enters California With 41 MW Acquisition PR News Wire -- May 17, 2002 LONDON, May 17 /PRNewswire/ -- Shell Renewables has made its first move into the California wind energy market. The company's US wind energy operation, Shell WindEnergy Inc., has signed an agreement to acquire the 41 megawatt (MW) Cabazon Pass wind park in the San Gorgonio Pass area, west of Palm Springs. The acquisition brings Shell WindEnergy's capacity in the US to 171 MW and is a key component of the company's aim to become a leading player in the wind sector. The Cabazon Pass wind park will be built by Cannon Power Corporation, with 62 Vestas 660 kilowatt turbines, and is scheduled to begin generating electricity by the end of August 2002. The electricity will be sold under a power purchase agreement to the California Department of Water Resources. California pioneered wind development in the US, being the first state to develop large-scale wind parks in the early 1980s. 90% of the installed wind capacity is spread across four states in the US with 50% in California. The San Gorgonio Pass has over 1,300 turbines installed, generating 420 MW. This deal gives us a stake in the San Gorgonio Pass which is considered to be one of the best areas in the US for wind energy development, said David Jones, Chairman of Shell WindEnergy Inc. Combined with our existing wind parks we are demonstrating our commitment to being a major player in the US wind sector. At the same time we're building up a strong team of people based in the US and Europe, who are busy negotiating deals and scouring our chosen markets for attractive business opportunities. Gerry Monkhouse, Chairman of Cannon Power, said: Cannon Power has developed, constructed, owned and operated wind energy projects in the US and Europe since the early 1980s. It is a challenging business and I'm pleased to see a major company of Shell's stature enter the arena, especially in the California market. Our teams enjoyed working together on the Cabazon Pass project and in my judgment Shell will quickly become a major presence in the international wind energy industry. Shell's interest in the wind power value chain spans origination, development, financing, construction and operation of wind parks. Europe and North America are the principal areas of focus, targeting both established wind markets (e.g. US, UK, the Netherlands, Spain, Portugal and Italy) and emerging wind energy markets. Overall, more than 3,000 MW of wind energy projects are currently being developed or evaluated by Shell in the US and Europe. Shell WindEnergy operates two other wind parks in the US - Rock River 1 (50MW) in Wyoming and White Deer ( 80MW) in Texas. /CONTACT: Michael McGarry, Media Relations for Shell WindEnergy Inc., +1- 212-218-3107/ 10:20 EDT Copyright © 2002 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
- Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 06:07 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! A snag would have worked better, just tow it out and leave it, he would have never seen it, until after the fact.;-) Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] oil crisis data
Do you happen to know precisely where you found this? You didn't give the exact link. TIA. MM Another interesting snippet from the same site: George W. Bush on Next Four Years: Tom Brokaw: You talk a lot about the energy crisis, but you've talked about it almost exclusively as the need to produce more energy. There's been very little talk about conservation. We have been on a buying and consumption binge in this country. George W. Bush: Well, I thought - listen, I believe we need to conserve. I mean, I think we need to have incentives to encourage people to insulate their homes better. I think we need to make sure industry does not, you know, is not wasteful, not question about it. But I'm realistic. We can't conserve our independence. I mean, you got an energy problem in California primarily caused by the fact there's no plants, and there's not enough to fuel the plants if there were new plants. We need to explore natural gas. I mean we need to be moving U.S. product. And so I think the two go hand in hand. I was reading somewhere the other day, where we can get out of this crisis by more wind. Well, you know, that's an interesting thought, except our technology isn't enough to capture enough wind to be able to make sure our economy continues to grow. And so I strongly believe in conservation. I believe we made great progress in conservation. But I know if we don't find more product we're going to have a problem. Excerpted from an interview on MSNBC (January 14, 2001 http://www.msnbc.com/news/515320.asp) Essence: Independence = more consumption and more production! (perhaps with more wind!) I am really amazed and find it hard to believe that this person is the president of *the* superpower. good grief! __ramjee. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ramjee Swaminathan http://www.qsl.net/vu2sro/ Mr. Muste, asked a reporter, do you really think you are going to change the policies of this country by standing out here alone at night in front of the White House with a candle? Oh, I don't do this to change the country. I do this so the country won't change me. -- Andrea Ayvazian, as Quoted in The Sun =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ?
I just had a thought, does anyone know of a motorcycle that uses diesel, instead of gas ? Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] water
Hi all. I ran some lab tests on my BD (from M. Pelly«s recipe), including IR spectrometry, Flash point, Pour point, Cloud point, Density, Viscosity, Residual Carbon and free water sediment. My findings showed quite a good BD, except for the water. ASTM requires 0,05 % vol max of water. I bubble washed my BD, following the Univ. of Idaho«s method, and it seems that my level of fre water whent up to a value of roughly 0.2% (4 times more than required by ASTM). I will further treat the BD with anhydrous CaCl2 (calcium chloride), though the lab technician also suggested I should use a saturated solution of sodium chloride (tablesalt... i.e., brine) to wash the BD. He said that this would reduce the presence of water in the washed BD. The point is: take care with the bubble washes and water washes in general. Maybe I was just unlucky, but you should try to check the content of water in your BD as the presence of it could be harmful to the motor. I«ve heard some people use pure methanol directly to get a BD pure enough to use without washing... (I don«t know how good this might be). My BD was very transparent. Even more crystaline than diesel fuel bought from my near by gas station. Comments welcome. Regards, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ?
The army has one now, built, I think, by Kawasaki. It's part of NATO's new program of having *all* motor vehicles run on jet fuel. I'll see if I can dig up the url. And there are several other diesel bikes, Royal Enfield used to make one, some company in India does it now. On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 10:13:03PM -0600, kirk wrote: Didn't the Army have such a thing? WWII? -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:02 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ? I just had a thought, does anyone know of a motorcycle that uses diesel, instead of gas ? Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
Yes, it's definitely part of their market strategy. On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 01:25:53PM -0600, kirk wrote: It also keeps European mfg out of their backyard thereby solving the competition issue. The Fortune 500 are in business to make money. Any social issues they involve themselves in go to their making money. That is the alpha and the omega of it. Kirk -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 6:07 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 04:26:16AM -, motie_d wrote: I'm hesitant to jump into the middle of a hot debate, but IMHO the reason Cummins doesn't (not can't) build better Diesel engines, is the same reason Mercedes VW etc. won't/don't sell them here. Very poor fuel! Yes -- but it's the US auto industry, working hand and glove with Big Oil, who has shot down attempts to clean up diesel fuel. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy -- because we know if Detroit started demanding cleaner fuel, it would be happen quickly, but we also know the incestuous relationship there where the oil companies help the auto companies fight off milage requirements and then they return the favor via the clean fuel issue. A provocative thought...Who is really more technically advanced? The engine builders that can only use highly refined European fuels, or the ones who can run on the junk fuel we have in the US? Are we maybe comparing Apples and Oranges? It's not only who is more advanced, but who is more responsible. Let's face it, the US auto industry has built junk for decades. Think about it -- isn't it much easier to build a a low-efficiency engine that burns low quality fuel and gets low milage than to design a hi-tech engine that takes advantage of better fuel? Would it be a fair comparison to run a European engine on our junk fuel, and an American engine on European fuel? Which manufacturers will willingly provide warranty service for their engine if such a test were to be scheduled? My understanding is that the European (and Japanese) engines don't have that much problem running on our fuel, they just can't meet emission tests when they do, and why should they be expected to? Both industry and gov't knew decades ago that fuels needed to be cleaned up -- what are they waiting for? It should have been mandated 20 years ago. Instead we see the EPA blocking small biodiesel production -- what a sick joke. High sulfur fuel and coal is responsible for acid rain, we've known this for at least 40 years -- why is it still being burned and clean fuels being stonewalled? Pretty sick. I think we need much tighter controls on the trucking industry all across the board -- both in air pollution and noise pollution, why should they be exempt? Same with tractors and construction equipment and boats and planes. For some time now I've been thinking of starting a website to solicit funds for a class action lawsuit against Harley-Davidson for building an unsafe product - unsafe in that they violate all motor vehcle muffler laws right out of the showroom. It would be a pretty easy case to win, and the funds generated could then be used to hit all the other manufacturers of noisy machines. Back in '62 a friend of mine bought a brand new BMW motorcycle. It was so quiet you literally couldn't tell if it was running unless you put your hand on it or looked at the tach. It totally amazed those of us who grew up with Harley's (my first bike was a '47 Harley, btw). There's just no excuse for all those noisy, smoke belching machines -- the technolgy to build better stuff has been around for a long time -- why is US industry dragging it's feet? I think it's more a matter of a cowboy attitude than anything else -- the macho I'll do what I want and to hell with everybody else attitude we see so prevalent in US foreign policy and everything else. I was out fishing the other night and some asshole in a *huge* inboard boat with dual V8 engines and absolutely no mufflers was cruising up and down the river. What I would have given for a torpedo! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 /
Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires, Spurs Sales of Diesel Trucks
On Fri, Jun 07, 2002 at 07:55:11PM +, Eric Ruttan wrote: It seems the whole of US manufacturing is blatantly unintelligent, at times vigorously so. They seemed focused on partnerships and friend ships like its a high school popularity contest! I think I should have to disagree about the loud pipes on bikes though. We know that 4 out of 5 motorcycle accidents are the cars fault. Cars notice bikes with loud pipes. I understand that loud pipes save lives. Would you say safety would allow loud pipes on bikes? Definitely not, in fact I think we should have open season, shoot on sight on loud bikes. Same with loud car stereos and boomboxes. Or at least an instant $200 ticket -- if you can hear the vehicle or stereo from 10' away, nail 'em. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Diesel Motorcycles ?
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just had a thought, does anyone know of a motorcycle that uses diesel, instead of gas ? Greg H. I don't have a link handy, but either Yamaha or Polaris has an ATV with a Diesel. One of my sons has kind of jokingly said he'd like to put together either a Detroit 'Smokin' 2 stroke or a Duetz(sp) air cooled Diesel for next years Sturgis run. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ?
Didn't the Army have such a thing? WWII? -Original Message- From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 8:02 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ? I just had a thought, does anyone know of a motorcycle that uses diesel, instead of gas ? Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.363 / Virus Database: 201 - Release Date: 5/21/2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Energy from Snow / Ice fall
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[biofuel] Energy from Snow / Ice fall
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Re: [biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ?
I did a Google search on them once, and there's an company in India that makes them, and the British Army is working on one, and someone's working on a diesel/electric hybrid motorcycle. Craig Greg and April wrote: I just had a thought, does anyone know of a motorcycle that uses diesel, instead of gas ? Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
