date:20020515

From: Ani 

- Original Message - 
From: Business North 
To: Business North 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
Subject: Fw: Virus warning

Hi all
we received this so are doing the right thing!
. 

I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus (called 
jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed find it.

This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or Norton. 
It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The virus is sent 
automatically by the Messenger and by the address book, wether or not you sent 
e-mails to your contacts.

I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!

1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option

2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe

3. Be sure to search in your C: drive

4. Clickfind now

5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN 
IT!!

6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)

7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin

IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR 
ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.

Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
Omlas Pty Ltd
ABN: 17 080 319 884
27 Gorge Road
TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[biofuels-biz] Virus warning




Dear List Members,
  Before you go spreading this type of rubbish,  just go to 
google and do a search on the file that you are being told to delete. 
You might find, as I expected I would, that it is a hoax, or that it an 
actual needed file and that people are talking about it in reference 
to system performance/graphics/networking/etc etc, ie delete the file 
and screw your system.

http://www.europe.f-secure.com/hoaxes/jdbgmgr.shtml

  It always saddens me when I see Australians passing on this 
type of tripe - I thought that after we invented the rotary lawn mower, 
the Hills hoist, the esky and the wine cask that we would regard 
ourselves as being technologically advanced enought to see through 
these kinds of shallow hoaxes - come on Aussies lift your game.

  Andrew

 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Business North 
 To: Business North 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
 Subject: Fw: Virus warning
 
 
 
 Hi all
 we received this so are doing the right thing!
 . 
 
 I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus
 (called jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did
 indeed find it.
 
 
 
 This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or
 Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The
 virus is sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book,
 wether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts.
 
 
 
 I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!
 
 
 
 1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option
 
 2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe
 
 3. Be sure to search in your C: drive
 
 4. Clickfind now
 
 5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO
 NOT OPEN IT!!
 
 6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)
 
 7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin
 
 
 
 IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN
 YOUR ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.
 
 Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
 B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
 Omlas Pty Ltd
 ABN: 17 080 319 884
 27 Gorge Road
 TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
 Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
 Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com
//***\\
|| Two things get me out of the water quickly:  ||
|| sharks and toilet paper. ||
||   Billy Connelly  ||
||***||
||   Andrew Lowe B.Eng.(Civil) GradIEAust PEng   ||
|| Wombat High Tech *|* Eng. App. Programming||
|| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   *|* Melbourne, Australia ||
|| www.wht.com.au   *|* C, C++, MDL, Java||
\\***//


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuels-biz] Virus warning

2002-05-15 Thread Rottweilers


arshole


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Re uploads

2002-05-15 Thread manickh


Hello Keith,
Manickh is fine. No i did not hear about that work at USM but I will 
forward it to a friend who might be interested in water removal from 
natural latex as an alternative to centrifugation. I seem to have a 
problem with diagrams always it is saved in separate folder which can 
be uploaded separately without merging. Often i upload both files. If 
I recollect the missing diagram refers to a pyrolysis scheme wherein 
the rice hulls are pyrolysed to a char first b4 treatment (to make 
silica?). Silica is sooo interesting but alas I do not have access to 
laboratory facilities anymore since I am retired. So I browse web 
instead--came across biofuels only recently. It is excellent and I 
get lots of information from it. Steve's post that u could drive cars 
on  160 proof ethanol came as a real shocker. I did not know that 
20% water does not harm the engine. I have also learnt that u have 
lots of molasses and rice hulls in the USA available at low cost. I 
can only conclude that u r sitting on 'green gold'...the fuel of the 
future by a long shot. TQ

manickh 


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Manickh
 
 (Should we call you Eddy?)
 
 This is an interesting file you uploaded. I have an old report of a 
 research project at Universiti Sains Malaysia (sp?) investigating 
the 
 use of silica from rice hull as molecular sieve. Did you ever hear 
 anything about that? It would be convenient if rice hull could be 
 used to produce anhydrous ethanol.
 
 (The graphics seem to be missing, by the way, did you know?)
 
 
File: /TAL Materials, Inc - Rice Hull Technology.htm
Uploaded by : manickh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Description :
 
 You can access the file at the URL
 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz/files/TAL%20Materials%2C%
20 
 Inc%20-%20Rice%20Hull%20Technology.htm
 
 Manickh's uploaded a few files, check them out:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuels-biz/files/
 
 Best
 
 Keith


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[biofuels-biz] Re: Re uploads


Hello again Manickh

Hello Keith,
Manickh is fine. No i did not hear about that work at USM but I will
forward it to a friend who might be interested in water removal from
natural latex as an alternative to centrifugation. I seem to have a
problem with diagrams always it is saved in separate folder which can
be uploaded separately without merging. Often i upload both files. If
I recollect the missing diagram refers to a pyrolysis scheme wherein
the rice hulls are pyrolysed to a char first b4 treatment (to make
silica?). Silica is sooo interesting but alas I do not have access to
laboratory facilities anymore since I am retired. So I browse web
instead--came across biofuels only recently. It is excellent and I
get lots of information from it. Steve's post that u could drive cars
on  160 proof ethanol came as a real shocker. I did not know that
20% water does not harm the engine.

WATER INJECTION

During World War II, the military made extensive use of water 
injection in high performance piston aircraft engines. Later, water 
injection was used by both civilian and military jet aircraft to 
provide extra thrust, principally on takeoff. Even today, water 
injection systems are available that can be installed in automobiles. 
The fact is that, within certain limits, these systems actually do 
increase power. Referring back to Figure 2-2, note that the latent 
heat of vaporization for gasoline is about 140 Btu/lb and for ethanol 
about 361 Btu/lb. Water has a latent heat of about 700 Btu/lb! 
Therefore, if a little water is injected into the carburetor in the 
form of an ultra-fine mist, the latent heat of the water will cool 
the charge and increase volumetric efficiency. In addition, when the 
charge is fired in the cylinder, the water will turn to high-pressure 
steam and provide additional power due to the pressure exerted by the 
steam. There are definite limits, however, to the amount of water 
that can be injected. Too much will cause excessive cooling and 
misfiring.

The use of water injection with a gasoline fueled engine requires a 
separate metering and injection system because water and gasoline do 
not mix. Ethanol and water, however, do mix and the benefits of water 
injection can be had simply by adding the desired amount of water to 
the alcohol in the fuel tank.

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual1-2.html#ch2
Alcohol Fuel Manual Ch1-2

And there have been some interesting results with this - try a search 
for Novak in the Biofuels archive:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me3.html
Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel: Ron Novak's Do-It-Yourself Water Injection System

These books and more are indexed here:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html
Biofuels Library - Journey to Forever

I have also learnt that u have
lots of molasses and rice hulls in the USA available at low cost. I
can only conclude that u r sitting on 'green gold'...the fuel of the
future by a long shot. TQ

Well, not me, I'm in Japan for the moment, but I agree. There's a lot 
of feedstock just lying around or going to waste or causing problems, 
and a lot of potential for growing biomass crops and better biofuel 
crops that's hardly begun to be exploited. It's the same here in 
japan. Everywhere I guess.

regards

Keith


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[biofuels-biz] Re: [biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max


I have not found much material to refute or confirm the items that Mike
found offensive. But I will look at material I pass closely, and clearly
mark it as third party, and not editorial. Much of the article was on the
money.


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Energy Services [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@yahoogroups.com;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max


 Ernie,

 Thank you for your two cents worth of sage advice,

 as it turns out, Steve and I have had some conversation on the matter.
Please consider the following points:

 1:  I apologized to Steve for any reference to him as being a GOOF and
certainly extend that apology to any of you that took offense. In actuality,
I never did specifically refer to Steve as a goofball.

 2:  The goofball comment was directed at the author of the editorial
comments that Steve emailed to everyone, while I found it hard to believe
that Steve wrote such nonsense, there was no reference as to who did and no
comments made by Steve. It had the appearance that this was from Steve...
and was way below his intelligence level.

 3:  In our correspondence, it comes out that he found the article from
someone he thought was intelligent and who he could trust and passed it on
to all of us without really reading the material... he even went so far as
to say he did not (say) some of the stuff that WAS said. I think he finally
read it through and had one of those defining moments...

 4:  The fact that Steve DID NOT write the material and DOES NOT endorse it
makes a lot more sense and Steve agrees he should be a lot more careful in
forwarding material in the future. If I had not been offensive it may
never have dawned on Steve that he was making these kinds of errors. Worse,
some of you, knowing Steve is a very smart advocate of AE/RE/EE might
somehow believe the material or repeat the material... the snowball effect
of STUPID could be devastating!

 Having said all of that, I will re state my position... such drivel as
that material is GOOFBALL and the person that wrote it is a prize winning
GOOF!  and I don't give a ratz a$$ if that is making fun of people or not.
It is true and I could just as easily use much stronger language... we have
no place in AE/RE/EE for STUPID, we don't have the time and we can not
afford the cost of alienating the public, who generally already looks at us
as strange (to say the least) because of the press the lunatic fringe gets.
Making stupid comments about earthquakes being caused by pumping oil or that
burring alcohol produces no emissions.. does NOT help the cause!

 I know I come across to a lot of you as a loud mouth jerk... will perhaps
I am, but if you follow what I am loud mouthed about, you may see a certain
pattern... I deeply dislike radical extremists (on either side of the
political spectrum), hucksters and dimbulbs who think they know everything
and know NOTHING. It is false to say that we need to be extreme to
counteract the Big Oil side this only creates chaos and the general
public turns away especially when we seek to force our will through
legislation that mandates they do what WE feel is right.

 Mike (the loud mouthed jerk)

   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
biofuel@egroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 7:17 AM
   Subject: Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max


   Max,

   I think you should avoid making fun of people that clearly know a lot
more than you do.  It makes you look bad.  /Ernie Rogers



  Yeah, good ole Steve Spence has some good stuff occasionally, but he
is a
  bit off the wall... I am still giggling over the blue flame is clean
and
 the
  yellow flame is dirty... not to mention that there is NO pollution
when
 your
  burn alcohol... And the bald face BS about earthquakes being caused
by
  pumping out oil AHEHEHEHEH!

Re: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 230


Hey tom, great article in Homepower.

Nice to see that Keith and I got mentioned in the additional info section.

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 230


 I've been doing several postings on that other web site on this topic, so
 here is my input on this topic. The Babington burner works great for raw
oil,
 ugly biodiesel, or other fluids, but it will not burn glycerol in
 concentrations greater than about 20 or 25%. It seems that this stuff is
 water based and just doesn't have all of the energy needed to sustain a
 flame. I had considerable success last winter in burning it on a wood
fire,
 but by itself it would only burn the volatile part and then leave a
 substantial vegetable gum residue that did not burn.

 My current plan is to build a masonry burner that maintains the 1000
degree
 temperature needed for complete combusion. The Babington will keep up the
 temperature using raw oil and the glycerine will be dribbled into a pan
where
 it should burn cleanly, leaving a mild residue ash.  All of this is
theory,
 but I have hope this system will work after 2 years of efforts.

 Tom Leue @ Homestead Inc.



 In a message dated 5/14/02 5:17:22 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Chuck wrote:
 What to do with all the Glycerin?  Egads!  BURN IT!  many, many BTU's
 there.
 Wait a minute...maybe we should pump it back into the ground where all
the
 oil came from to prevent earthquakes =:-O
 
 I agree, but how to do it safely and in a way that the useful heat can be
 recovered.  I am experimenting with this, starting with a 'Mother Earth'
 waste oil furnace design (which you can get to from Keith's site).  It
would
 be of interest to many here if anyone has experience of burning glyc.
The
 problems are to ensure a uniformly high temperature to dissociate ALL the
 acrolein and to either avoid or easily handle the 'coke'.
 
 Any takers?
 
 David T.


 Hello David

 No takers here, no, unfortunately (circumstances forbid), but a very
 interested bystander hoping you'll get takers elsewhere. I'm glad
 you're taking this on, please keep us posted.

 MOTHER's Waste Oil Heater is here, by the way:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html
 Mother Earth: Waste Oil Heater

 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me5.html
 Mother Earth: Waste Oil Heater 2

 Regards

 Keith
  



 Biofuels at Journey to Forever
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 Biofuel at WebConX
 http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
 List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
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Re: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 230


Stay tuned for a babington powered steam co-generator soon.


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuels-biz] Digest Number 230


 I've been doing several postings on that other web site on this topic, so
 here is my input on this topic. The Babington burner works great for raw
oil,
 ugly biodiesel, or other fluids, but it will not burn glycerol in
 concentrations greater than about 20 or 25%. It seems that this stuff is
 water based and just doesn't have all of the energy needed to sustain a
 flame. I had considerable success last winter in burning it on a wood
fire,
 but by itself it would only burn the volatile part and then leave a
 substantial vegetable gum residue that did not burn.

 My current plan is to build a masonry burner that maintains the 1000
degree
 temperature needed for complete combusion. The Babington will keep up the
 temperature using raw oil and the glycerine will be dribbled into a pan
where
 it should burn cleanly, leaving a mild residue ash.  All of this is
theory,
 but I have hope this system will work after 2 years of efforts.

 Tom Leue @ Homestead Inc.



 In a message dated 5/14/02 5:17:22 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Chuck wrote:
 What to do with all the Glycerin?  Egads!  BURN IT!  many, many BTU's
 there.
 Wait a minute...maybe we should pump it back into the ground where all
the
 oil came from to prevent earthquakes =:-O
 
 I agree, but how to do it safely and in a way that the useful heat can be
 recovered.  I am experimenting with this, starting with a 'Mother Earth'
 waste oil furnace design (which you can get to from Keith's site).  It
would
 be of interest to many here if anyone has experience of burning glyc.
The
 problems are to ensure a uniformly high temperature to dissociate ALL the
 acrolein and to either avoid or easily handle the 'coke'.
 
 Any takers?
 
 David T.


 Hello David

 No takers here, no, unfortunately (circumstances forbid), but a very
 interested bystander hoping you'll get takers elsewhere. I'm glad
 you're taking this on, please keep us posted.

 MOTHER's Waste Oil Heater is here, by the way:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me4.html
 Mother Earth: Waste Oil Heater

 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/me5.html
 Mother Earth: Waste Oil Heater 2

 Regards

 Keith
  



 Biofuels at Journey to Forever
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 Biofuel at WebConX
 http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
 List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
 http://archive.nnytech.net/
 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [biofuel] Continuous manufacture of absolute alcohol

2002-05-15 Thread alfya


Could I also have a copy of patent on continuos manufacture of absolute alcohol.
Thank you
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


On Thu, 2 May 2002 03:42:55 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I, also, would like to have a copy of patent on continuous manufacture of 
absolute alcohol.  Thank you.  

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Continuous manufacture of absolute alcohol


Could I also have a copy of patent on continuos manufacture of 
absolute alcohol.
Thank you
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

It's in the Biofuels Library at Journey to Forever - pdf:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/continuousalcohol.PDF

html:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/contalc/contalc1.html

Keith


On Thu, 2 May 2002 03:42:55 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I, also, would like to have a copy of patent on continuous manufacture of
 absolute alcohol.  Thank you.
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[biofuel] Fw: Virus warning

2002-05-15 Thread Ani

- Original Message - 
From: Business North 
To: Business North 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
Subject: Fw: Virus warning

Hi all
we received this so are doing the right thing!
. 

I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus (called 
jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed find it.

This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or Norton. 
It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The virus is sent 
automatically by the Messenger and by the address book, wether or not you sent 
e-mails to your contacts.

I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!

1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option

2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe

3. Be sure to search in your C: drive

4. Clickfind now

5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN 
IT!!

6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)

7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin

IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR 
ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.

Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
Omlas Pty Ltd
ABN: 17 080 319 884
27 Gorge Road
TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [biofuel] Fw: Virus warning

2002-05-15 Thread Andrew Lowe


Dear List Members,
 Before you go spreading this type of rubbish,  just go to 
google and do a search on the file that you are being told to delete. 
You might find, as I expected I would, that it is a hoax, or that it an 
actual needed file and that people are talking about it in reference 
to system performance/graphics/networking/etc etc, ie delete the file 
and screw your system.

http://www.europe.f-secure.com/hoaxes/jdbgmgr.shtml

It always saddens me when I see Australians passing on this 
type of tripe - I thought that after we invented the rotary lawn mower, 
the Hills hoist, the esky and the wine cask that we would regard 
ourselves as being technologically advanced enought to see through 
these kinds of shallow hoaxes - come on Aussies lift your game.

Andrew

  
 - Original Message - 
 From: Business North 
 To: Business North 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
 Subject: Fw: Virus warning
 
 
 
 Hi all
 we received this so are doing the right thing!
 . 
 
 I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus
 (called jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did
 indeed find it.
 
 
 
 This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or
 Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The
 virus is sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book,
 wether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts.
 
 
 
 I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!
 
 
 
 1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option
 
 2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe
 
 3. Be sure to search in your C: drive
 
 4. Clickfind now
 
 5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO
 NOT OPEN IT!!
 
 6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)
 
 7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin
 
 
 
 IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN
 YOUR ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.
 
 Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
 B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
 Omlas Pty Ltd
 ABN: 17 080 319 884
 27 Gorge Road
 TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
 Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
 Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com
//***\\
|| Two things get me out of the water quickly:  ||
|| sharks and toilet paper. ||
||   Billy Connelly  ||
||***||
||   Andrew Lowe B.Eng.(Civil) GradIEAust PEng   ||
|| Wombat High Tech *|* Eng. App. Programming||
|| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   *|* Melbourne, Australia ||
|| www.wht.com.au   *|* C, C++, MDL, Java||
\\***//


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Re: [biofuel] Fw: Virus warning

2002-05-15 Thread Daniel West


This message is a hoax. The file is a system file of windows,
so do not delete it!
If you are not sure about this, you can check it on many
homepages, just search for the file in the net.

Daniel


Ani schrieb:
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Business North
 To: Business North
 Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
 Subject: Fw: Virus warning
 
 Hi all
 we received this so are doing the right thing!
 .
 
 I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus (called 
 jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed find it.
 
 
 
 This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or 
 Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The virus is 
 sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book, wether or not 
 you sent e-mails to your contacts.
 
 
 
 I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!
 
 
 
 1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option
 
 2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe
 
 3. Be sure to search in your C: drive
 
 4. Clickfind now
 
 5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN 
 IT!!
 
 6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)
 
 7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin
 
 
 
 IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR 
 ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.
 
 Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
 B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
 Omlas Pty Ltd
 ABN: 17 080 319 884
 27 Gorge Road
 TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
 Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
 Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
 Biofuels list archives:
 http://archive.nnytech.net/
 
 Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address.
 To unsubscribe, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: [biofuel] Fw: Virus warning

2002-05-15 Thread Pepu2

hoax. bs. whatever you call it...
http://www.europe.f-secure.com/hoaxes/jdbgmgr.shtml

 - Original Message - 
 From: Business North 
 To: Business North 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
 Subject: Fw: Virus warning

 Hi all
 we received this so are doing the right thing!
 . 

 I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus (called 
 jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed find it.

 This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or 
 Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The virus is 
 sent automatically by the Messenger and by the
 address book, wether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts.

 I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!

 1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option

 2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe

 3. Be sure to search in your C: drive

 4. Clickfind now

 5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN 
 IT!!

 6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)

 7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin

 IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR 
 ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.

 Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
 B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
 Omlas Pty Ltd
 ABN: 17 080 319 884
 27 Gorge Road
 TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
 Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
 Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com

 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Biofuels list archives:
 http://archive.nnytech.net/

 Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address.
 To unsubscribe, send an email to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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[biofuel] Re: Virus warning


This is a hoax, Do not delete this file.

http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/jdbgmgr.exe.file.hoa
x.html


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Ani [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: LINDY WHITNEY [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cheryl Whitney
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Whitney, AC Anthony
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; westprint [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Whitney Vicki
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Glenn
Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Secretary TRVA [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Rod Grice [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rachel  Steven Roberts
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Murray  Gillian Southwell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Lyndon Gabites [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Jason Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daly Greg
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris Boden [EMAIL PROTECTED];
tradingpost [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; de
Winne Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED]; T.Ling
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Spence Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Oppermann
Tricia  Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stuart Smith
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Darren Sanford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Suzanne Robb
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Neil Raslan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bob
Purdon [EMAIL PROTECTED]; EVANS PHIL [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Jason Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Oppermann, Stephen (CALBBAY)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Oppermann
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mark McGuire [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Peter
Maynard [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Peter Maynard
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Paul Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]; LROC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sue Leavey [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ZOLEZZI LARRY
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Robert A. King [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Kelly
King [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Tom Joyce [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris 
Vanessa Joret [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
graves [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Emma Fellows [EMAIL PROTECTED];
e-Trends [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ann  Kerry Edge
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Denise DeBattista [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ruth Dadson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ken Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Reynolds
Carne [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Keith Calvert
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; STEWART SILVER KING  BURNS
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Blacklow, Scott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@egroups.com;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; BAA [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tas. Gov. Au [EMAIL PROTECTED]; NORMAN Anthony
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Annabel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Whitney Ani
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Royce Aldred
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Keith Addison
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; ROCKMOOR 4WD
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Denita 11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:33 AM
Subject: Fw: Virus warning



- Original Message -
From: Business North
To: Business North
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
Subject: Fw: Virus warning



Hi all
we received this so are doing the right thing!
.

I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus
(called jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed
find it.



This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or
Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The virus is
sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book, wether or not
you sent e-mails to your contacts.



I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!



1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option

2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe

3. Be sure to search in your C: drive

4. Clickfind now

5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN
IT!!

6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)

7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin



IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR
ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.

Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
Omlas Pty Ltd
ABN: 17 080 319 884
27 Gorge Road
TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com




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Re: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values


Hi Christian, Ken and Ken, Juan and all

This is all very interesting. First, Ken from the Phillipines, 
personally I didn't come up with anything much, except maybe saying 
use more (I usually use 22%). The stoichiometric value for methanol 
is generally put at 12.5% or 13% by volume, and I guess the 20% comes 
from that. Some people say you need more excess for full conversion, 
up to 25% total, others use 30% or even more, for tallow eg, others 
yet say using more than 20% total is generally a waste. The results 
from using 20% (and good practices) are generally good. So we should 
add to that: ... for most feedstocks, in most cases.

Christian says the stoichiometric value for methanol of sunflower oil 
is lower, 11%. For coconut oil Christian gets a value of 17.44%; 
using Christian's SG figures Ken's 96g MeOH per 665g oil comes to 
16.79% (according to this calculator at least). Anyway, rather more 
than 13%.

What else would this apply to? I guess palm oil, tallow would also 
need more methanol, any others? - and any idea how much? Hydrogenated 
stuff too maybe?

Could we figure out a table for the most common oils? Say soy, 
rapeseed/canola, corn, sunflower, cottonseed, peanut, olive, coconut, 
palm, tallow. That would be really useful. We'd need to know the FA 
breakdown of each, SG etc. There are some figures here for the main 
FAs:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/fatsoils/fatsoils2.html#2-2

Slightly different to Ken's for coconut though, and not for all the 
most common oils.

Is the 3.5g per litre of catalyst, which is also put as low as 3.1 or 
higher than 4, also specific to oil type?

Best wishes

Keith


Ken from Phillipines writes:

 
in short there is around 1.74 moles of glycerine for every 1000 grams of
   refined coconut oil.  From here i would need 5.22 moles of 
methanol or 210
   ml of methanol.  The receipe in journey to forever says to use 200 ml of
   methanol for every 1000 ml of oil and they say that has alot of excess
   already.  So this is my dilema, are my calculations wrong.  I wonder how
Keith and the rest came up with the prescribed volume for methanol.
   

The 200 ml per liter of oil is a little low for good conversion, even for the
oils typically used over here, like soy and canola. It would be very low for
coconut, which has a much lower molecular weight (i.e., one liter of coconut
oil is more moles than one liter of soy oil, and therefore needs more moles
of methanol to transesterify).

I get a MW of about 665 for coconut oil (the whole molecule, with the
glycerol).
So stoich. for methanol would be 96g MeOH per 665g oil, and I'd recommend
twice that (100% excess) for best conversion.


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RE: [biofuel] VW diesel question

2002-05-15 Thread Manolo Rolan

on this page you can find hp and torque of diferent vw engines
http://www.volkswagen.org/EngineSwap/Default.htm

hope this helps

Manolo Rolan
Valencia, Spain

-Mensaje original-
De: dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: martes, 14 de mayo de 2002 22:28
Para: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: Re: [biofuel] VW diesel question

i dont know the exact hp or torque, but after looking in my generator
book your engine should have more than enough power. one thing you would
have to do is put a belt driven governor on the motor to maintain the
speed.dennis

Tiastobio wrote:

VW 1500-1600 HP/Torque vs RPM ?

Can anyone provide a horsepower/torque vs RPM graph for the VW 1500 or 1600
non-turbo diesel engine?
I would like these figures to see if a small imported generator end could
provide 10-15 kilowatts when driven by a small VW diesel.

I've seen the site with the belt driven homebuilt unit, but I would like to
investigate the possibility of a direct-coupled homebuilt unit.

Can any member give me a hand?

-tiasto

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[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 05/15/02

2002-05-15 Thread EREN


=
EREN NETWORK NEWS -- May 15, 2002
A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE)
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN).
http://www.eren.doe.gov/
=

Featuring:
*News and Events
   Farm Bill Boosts Bioenergy Production, Renewable Energy Use
   Cargill Dow, Ashland to Produce Biobased Solvent
   GE Buys Enron Wind; Vestas Receives Large U.S. Wind Order
   New Jersey State Government Buys Green Power
   Six Green Tag Providers Earn Green-e Certification
   Rosebud Sioux to Build First Tribal Utility-Scale Turbine
   EPA Recognizes Nearly 300 Commuter Choice Leaders

*Energy Facts and Tips
   EPA Examines Greenhouse Gas Emissions by Sector, Strength

*About this Newsletter


--
NEWS AND EVENTS
--
Farm Bill Boosts Bioenergy Production, Renewable Energy Use

President Bush signed the Farm Bill on Monday, ushering in
a variety of programs to encourage the production of energy
products on farms while providing incentives for farmers to
increase their energy efficiency and their use of renewable
energy resources. Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman
noted that the bill -- officially called the Farm Security and
Rural Investment Act of 2002 -- provides  a renewed
commitment to renewable fuels programs. See the
U.S. Department of Agriculture press release at:
http://www.usda.gov/news/releases/2002/05/0189.htm.

Title IX of the bill specifically addresses energy, providing
$204 million in subsidies over the next four years for
producers of fuel-grade ethanol and biodiesel. It also
provides $5 million to educate consumers about biodiesel
and $6 million to establish a new program to encourage the
purchase of biobased products by federal agencies. The
new program will include an effort to establish voluntary
labeling of biobased products.

The bill encourages farmers to be energy efficient and to use
renewable energy systems, including wind energy systems
and anaerobic digesters, by providing $115 million over the
next five years for low-interest loans, loan guarantees, and
grants. It also extends the Biomass Research and Development
Initiative through 2006, providing $75 million to continue the
Initiative. See the Farm Bill summary on the U.S. Senate
Web site at:
http://www.senate.gov/~agriculture/Briefs/2001FarmBill/conframe.htm.

For more details, including the complete text of the bill, see
the link from the U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture,
Nutrition  Forestry Web site at:
http://www.senate.gov/~agriculture/.

The Biomass Research and Development Initiative is a
multi-agency effort to coordinate and accelerate all federal
biobased products and bioenergy research and
development. See the Initiative's Web site at:
http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/.


Cargill Dow, Ashland to Produce Biobased Solvent

The biobased chemical industry took a large step forward in
late April, when Cargill Dow LLC announced that it has
signed a five-year agreement with Ashland Specialty
Chemical Company to produce a biobased solvent.
Biobased chemicals are produced from organic matter
available on a renewable basis -- in this case, the solvent will
be produced from corn. Biobased chemical production can
potentially consume far less fossil fuels than conventional
chemical production processes.

Ashland will derive its ethyl lactate solvent from ethanol and
a Cargill Dow polymer intermediate called lactide. Cargill
Dow's lactide production, in turn, will draw on the company's
new plant that produces lactic acid from corn. The
electronics-grade solvent has many applications in the
semiconductor industry.

Since launching its new plant in April, Cargill Dow has also
moved ahead on its NatureWorks products, which are
produced from lactic acid. The company has demonstrated
the superior flame resistance of its NatureWorks fiber, while
a leading Italian supermarket is preparing to use NatureWorks
materials to produce containers and film wrapping for its
food products. By mid-summer, the supermarket plans to
distribute fresh food and pasta in the corn-based packaging.
See the Cargill Dow press releases at:
http://www.cargilldow.com/news.asp.


GE Buys Enron Wind; Vestas Receives Large U.S. Wind Order

It's finally official: the company formerly known as Enron
Wind Corporation is now called GE Wind Energy, a General
Electric (GE) company. GE Power Systems announced the
acquisition on May 10th. GE has not yet chosen the
headquarters location for the new company, which is
currently based in Tehachapi, California. See the GE Wind
Energy Web site at: www.gewindenergy.com.

The U.S. market for wind turbines appears strong: Vestas -
American Wind Technology, Inc. (the U.S. subsidiary of
Vestas Wind Systems A/S) received an

Re: [biofuel] Fw: Virus warning


Dear List Members,
Before you go spreading this type of rubbish,  just go to
google and do a search on the file that you are being told to delete.
You might find, as I expected I would, that it is a hoax, or that it an
actual needed file and that people are talking about it in reference
to system performance/graphics/networking/etc etc, ie delete the file
and screw your system.

http://www.europe.f-secure.com/hoaxes/jdbgmgr.shtml

   It always saddens me when I see Australians passing on this
type of tripe - I thought that after we invented the rotary lawn mower,
the Hills hoist, the esky and the wine cask that we would regard
ourselves as being technologically advanced enought to see through
these kinds of shallow hoaxes - come on Aussies lift your game.

   Andrew


Virus hoaxes are viruses themselves, in a different way. YOU MUST 
CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS. 
Right.

But Andrew, what, please, is an esky? And why did you forget the 
vegemite? Also the long-life milk? Or have I been misled by 
downunderhand propaganda on these matters? And how can you claim to 
have invented wine casks?? A cask's a barrel, no? First provided by 
Bacchus, surely, as part of the requisite equipment.

Keith

 
  - Original Message -
  From: Business North
  To: Business North
  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
  Subject: Fw: Virus warning
 
 
 
  Hi all
  we received this so are doing the right thing!
  .
 
  I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus
  (called jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did
  indeed find it.
 
 
 
  This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or
  Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The
  virus is sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book,
  wether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts.
 
 
 
  I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!
 
 
 
  1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option
 
  2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe
 
  3. Be sure to search in your C: drive
 
  4. Clickfind now
 
  5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO
  NOT OPEN IT!!
 
  6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)
 
  7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin
 
 
 
  IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN
  YOUR ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.
 
  Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
  B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
  Omlas Pty Ltd
  ABN: 17 080 319 884
  27 Gorge Road
  TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
  Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
  Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com
//***\\
|| Two things get me out of the water quickly:  ||
|| sharks and toilet paper. ||
||   Billy Connelly  ||
||***||
||   Andrew Lowe B.Eng.(Civil) GradIEAust PEng   ||
|| Wombat High Tech *|* Eng. App. Programming||
|| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   *|* Melbourne, Australia ||
|| www.wht.com.au   *|* C, C++, MDL, Java||
\\***//


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM
-~-

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Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/

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[biofuel] Virus warning

From: Ani 

- Original Message - 
From: Business North 
To: Business North 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
Subject: Fw: Virus warning

Hi all
we received this so are doing the right thing!
. 

I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus (called 
jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed find it.

This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or Norton. 
It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The virus is sent 
automatically by the Messenger and by the address book, wether or not you sent 
e-mails to your contacts.

I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!

1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option

2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe

3. Be sure to search in your C: drive

4. Clickfind now

5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN 
IT!!

6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)

7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin

IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR 
ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.

Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
Omlas Pty Ltd
ABN: 17 080 319 884
27 Gorge Road
TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
ADVERTISEMENT

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/

Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM
-~-

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[biofuel] Virus warning




Dear List Members,
  Before you go spreading this type of rubbish,  just go to 
google and do a search on the file that you are being told to delete. 
You might find, as I expected I would, that it is a hoax, or that it an 
actual needed file and that people are talking about it in reference 
to system performance/graphics/networking/etc etc, ie delete the file 
and screw your system.

http://www.europe.f-secure.com/hoaxes/jdbgmgr.shtml

  It always saddens me when I see Australians passing on this 
type of tripe - I thought that after we invented the rotary lawn mower, 
the Hills hoist, the esky and the wine cask that we would regard 
ourselves as being technologically advanced enought to see through 
these kinds of shallow hoaxes - come on Aussies lift your game.

  Andrew

 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Business North 
 To: Business North 
 Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
 Subject: Fw: Virus warning
 
 
 
 Hi all
 we received this so are doing the right thing!
 . 
 
 I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus
 (called jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did
 indeed find it.
 
 
 
 This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or
 Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The
 virus is sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book,
 wether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts.
 
 
 
 I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!
 
 
 
 1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option
 
 2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe
 
 3. Be sure to search in your C: drive
 
 4. Clickfind now
 
 5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO
 NOT OPEN IT!!
 
 6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)
 
 7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin
 
 
 
 IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN
 YOUR ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.
 
 Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
 B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
 Omlas Pty Ltd
 ABN: 17 080 319 884
 27 Gorge Road
 TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
 Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
 Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com
//***\\
|| Two things get me out of the water quickly:  ||
|| sharks and toilet paper. ||
||   Billy Connelly  ||
||***||
||   Andrew Lowe B.Eng.(Civil) GradIEAust PEng   ||
|| Wombat High Tech *|* Eng. App. Programming||
|| [EMAIL PROTECTED]   *|* Melbourne, Australia ||
|| www.wht.com.au   *|* C, C++, MDL, Java||
\\***//


  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
ADVERTISEMENT
   
 
 

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/

Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM
-~-

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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
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Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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[biofuel] Fw: Virus warning

2002-05-15 Thread Ani

My apologies to anyone who acted on the previous email.  Guess you'll have to 
do what I'm doing  reinstalling windows.

- Original Message - 
From: Murray  Gillian Southwell 
To: Ani 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Virus warning

Hi Ani - Sorry to bring this to your attention, but jdbgmgr.exe appears to be a 
Microsoft program that helps internet explorer handle java scrips! The Virus is 
in fact the email telling you to delete a useful windows component  ;-)
Regards Murray

  - Original Message - 
  From: Business North 
  To: Business North 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PM
  Subject: Fw: Virus warning

  Hi all
  we received this so are doing the right thing!
  . 

  I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus (called 
jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed find it.

  This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software like McAfee or 
Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. The virus is 
sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book, wether or not you 
sent e-mails to your contacts.

  I checked, found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!

  1. Go to Start, Find or Search Option

  2.  In the Files/Folder option , write the name jdbgmgr.exe

  3. Be sure to search in your C: drive

  4. Clickfind now

  5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN 
IT!!

  6. Right click and delete it (it will then go to the recycle bin)

  7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it there as well, or empty the bin

  IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR 
ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE INSTRUCTIONS.

  Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy Forteath
  B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.
  Omlas Pty Ltd
  ABN: 17 080 319 884
  27 Gorge Road
  TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250
  Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905
  Web page: www.hippa-seahorse.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~--
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM
-~-

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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biofuels list archives:
http://archive.nnytech.net/

Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [biofuel] Fw: Virus warning help

2002-05-15 Thread Brian Dickinson


Try and copy jdbgmgr.exe from someone elses computer and paste it back into 
your windows. If you have it sent to you as an attachment from someone in an e 
mail they will have to zip it to send it to you


BRBR- Original Message -BRFrom: Ani BRDate: Thu, 16 May 2002 
00:20:39 +1000BRTo: LINDY WHITNEY , Cheryl Whitney , Whitney, AC 
Anthony , westprint , Jan Warnqvist , Whitney Vicki , , Glenn Turner , 
, de Winne Terry , T.Ling , Oppermann Tricia  Steve , Stuart Smith , 
secretary , scudamore , Darren Sanford , Rachel  Steven Roberts , 
Suzanne Robb , Neil Raslan , Bob Purdon , EVANS PHIL , Eddie Pang , 
Jason Palmer , Oppermann, Stephen \(CALBBAY\) , Oppermann , Business 
North , Mark McGuire , Peter Maynard , Peter Maynard , Paul Martin , 
LROC , Sue Leavey , ZOLEZZI LARRY , Robert A. King , Kelly King , 
Chris  Vanessa Joret , , Rod  Kerry Grice , Daly Greg , graves , 
Lyndon Gabites , Ann  Kerry Edge , Denise DeBattista , Ruth Dadson , 
Ken Clark , Reynolds Carne , Keith Calvert , STEWART SILVER KING  
BURNS , Blacklow, Scott , , [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tas. Gov. Au , NORMAN 
Anthony , Annabel , Whitney Ani , Royce Aldred , Keith Addison , 
ROCKMOOR 4WD , Denita 11 BRSubject: [biofuel] Fw: Virus 
warningBRBRBRContent-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCIIBRMy apologies to 
anyone who acted on the previous email.  Guess you'll have to do what I'm doing 
 reinstalling windows.BRBRBR- Original Message - BRFrom: 
Murray  Gillian Southwell BRTo: Ani BRSent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:52 
PMBRSubject: Re: Virus warningBRBRBRHi Ani - Sorry to bring this to 
your attention, but jdbgmgr.exe appears to be a Microsoft program that helps 
internet explorer handle java scrips! The Virus is in fact the email telling 
you to delete a useful windows component  ;-)BRRegards MurrayBRBRBR  
- Original Message - BR  From: Business North BR  To: Business 
North BR  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:30 PMBR  Subject: Fw: Virus 
warningBRBRBRBR  Hi allBR  we received this so are doing the right 
thing!BR  . 
BRBR  I have just had a message warning us that we may have a sleeper virus 
(called jdbgmgr.exe) infecting our address book. On checking we did indeed find 
it.BRBR   BRBR  This virus is not detected by normal antivirus software 
like McAfee or Norton. It stays quiet for 14 days before damaging the system. 
The virus is sent automatically by the Messenger and by the address book, 
wether or not you sent e-mails to your contacts.BRBR   BRBR  I checked, 
found and deleted it. Now it is your turn!!!BRBR   BRBR  1. Go to 
Start, Find or Search OptionBRBR  2.  In the Files/Folder option , write 
the name jdbgmgr.exeBRBR  3. Be sure to search in your C: driveBRBR  
4. Clickfind nowBRBR  5. The virus has a little bear icon with the name 
jdbgmgr.exe - DO NOT OPEN IT!!BRBR  6. Right click and delete it (it will 
then go to the recycle bin)BRBR  7. Go to the recycle bin and delete it 
there as well, or empty the binBRBR   BRBR  IF YOU FIND THE VIRUS, LIKE 
I DID, YOU MUST CONTACT ALL THE PEOPLE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK WITH THESE 
INSTRUCTIONS.BRBR  Emeritus Professor Nigel and Mrs Mandy ForteathBR  
B.A., Ph.D., F.T.S.E., F.R.E.S., M.I.Biol., C.Biol.BR  Omlas Pty LtdBR  
ABN: 17 080 319 884BR  27 Gorge RoadBR  TREVALLYN  Tasmania  7250BR  
Ph/Fax: (03) 6331 7905BR  Web page: 
www.hippa-seahorse.comBRBRBRBR[Non-text portions of this message have 
been removed]BRBRBRYahoo! Groups SponsorBRADVERTISEMENTBRBRHeight:  
4567 ft  01234567891011 inBRWeight: BRSex:  F  
MBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBiofuel at Journey to 
Forever:BRhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlBRBRBiofuels list 
archives:BRhttp://archive.nnytech.net/BRBRPlease do NOT send 
unsubscribe messages to the list address.BRTo unsubscribe, send an email 
to:BR[EMAIL PROTECTED] BRBRYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 
Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
-- 
___
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Ri:[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 05/15/02

2002-05-15 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]


It's what you wrote, but I am not agree, because we are discussing the problems 
about biofuels and here you introduced wind energy and solar energy.

Best Regards

Ezio



 =
 EREN NETWORK NEWS -- May 15, 2002
 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE)
 Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN).
 http://www.eren.doe.gov/
 =
 
 Featuring:
 *News and Events
Farm Bill Boosts Bioenergy Production, Renewable Energy Use
Cargill Dow, Ashland to Produce Biobased Solvent
GE Buys Enron Wind; Vestas Receives Large U.S. Wind Order
New Jersey State Government Buys Green Power
Six Green Tag Providers Earn Green-e Certification
Rosebud Sioux to Build First Tribal Utility-Scale Turbine
EPA Recognizes Nearly 300 Commuter Choice Leaders
 
 *Energy Facts and Tips
EPA Examines Greenhouse Gas Emissions by Sector, Strength
 
 *About this Newsletter
 
 
 --
 NEWS AND EVENTS
 --
 Farm Bill Boosts Bioenergy Production, Renewable Energy Use
 
 President Bush signed the Farm Bill on Monday, ushering in
 a variety of programs to encourage the production of energy
 products on farms while providing incentives for farmers to
 increase their energy efficiency and their use of renewable
 energy resources. Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman
 noted that the bill -- officially called the Farm Security and
 Rural Investment Act of 2002 -- provides  a renewed
 commitment to renewable fuels programs. See the
 U.S. Department of Agriculture press release at:
 http://www.usda.gov/news/releases/2002/05/0189.htm.
 
 Title IX of the bill specifically addresses energy, providing
 $204 million in subsidies over the next four years for
 producers of fuel-grade ethanol and biodiesel. It also
 provides $5 million to educate consumers about biodiesel
 and $6 million to establish a new program to encourage the
 purchase of biobased products by federal agencies. The
 new program will include an effort to establish voluntary
 labeling of biobased products.
 
 The bill encourages farmers to be energy efficient and to use
 renewable energy systems, including wind energy systems
 and anaerobic digesters, by providing $115 million over the
 next five years for low-interest loans, loan guarantees, and
 grants. It also extends the Biomass Research and Development
 Initiative through 2006, providing $75 million to continue the
 Initiative. See the Farm Bill summary on the U.S. Senate
 Web site at:
 http://www.senate.gov/~agriculture/Briefs/2001FarmBill/conframe.htm.
 
 For more details, including the complete text of the bill, see
 the link from the U.S. Senate Committee on Agriculture,
 Nutrition  Forestry Web site at:
 http://www.senate.gov/~agriculture/.
 
 The Biomass Research and Development Initiative is a
 multi-agency effort to coordinate and accelerate all federal
 biobased products and bioenergy research and
 development. See the Initiative's Web site at:
 http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/.
 
 
 Cargill Dow, Ashland to Produce Biobased Solvent
 
 The biobased chemical industry took a large step forward in
 late April, when Cargill Dow LLC announced that it has
 signed a five-year agreement with Ashland Specialty
 Chemical Company to produce a biobased solvent.
 Biobased chemicals are produced from organic matter
 available on a renewable basis -- in this case, the solvent will
 be produced from corn. Biobased chemical production can
 potentially consume far less fossil fuels than conventional
 chemical production processes.
 
 Ashland will derive its ethyl lactate solvent from ethanol and
 a Cargill Dow polymer intermediate called lactide. Cargill
 Dow's lactide production, in turn, will draw on the company's
 new plant that produces lactic acid from corn. The
 electronics-grade solvent has many applications in the
 semiconductor industry.
 
 Since launching its new plant in April, Cargill Dow has also
 moved ahead on its NatureWorks products, which are
 produced from lactic acid. The company has demonstrated
 the superior flame resistance of its NatureWorks fiber, while
 a leading Italian supermarket is preparing to use NatureWorks
 materials to produce containers and film wrapping for its
 food products. By mid-summer, the supermarket plans to
 distribute fresh food and pasta in the corn-based packaging.
 See the Cargill Dow press releases at:
 http://www.cargilldow.com/news.asp.
 
 
 GE Buys Enron Wind; Vestas Receives Large U.S. Wind Order
 
 It's finally official: the company formerly known as Enron
 Wind Corporation is now called GE Wind Energy, a General
 Electric (GE) company. GE Power Systems announced the
 acquisition on May 10th. GE has not yet chosen the
 headquarters location for

[biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max

2002-05-15 Thread Energy Services


Ernie,

Thank you for your two cents worth of sage advice,

as it turns out, Steve and I have had some conversation on the matter. Please 
consider the following points:

1:  I apologized to Steve for any reference to him as being a GOOF and 
certainly extend that apology to any of you that took offense. In actuality, I 
never did specifically refer to Steve as a goofball.

2:  The goofball comment was directed at the author of the editorial comments 
that Steve emailed to everyone, while I found it hard to believe that Steve 
wrote such nonsense, there was no reference as to who did and no comments made 
by Steve. It had the appearance that this was from Steve... and was way below 
his intelligence level.

3:  In our correspondence, it comes out that he found the article from someone 
he thought was intelligent and who he could trust and passed it on to all of us 
without really reading the material... he even went so far as to say he did not 
(say) some of the stuff that WAS said. I think he finally read it through and 
had one of those defining moments...

4:  The fact that Steve DID NOT write the material and DOES NOT endorse it 
makes a lot more sense and Steve agrees he should be a lot more careful in 
forwarding material in the future. If I had not been offensive it may never 
have dawned on Steve that he was making these kinds of errors. Worse, some of 
you, knowing Steve is a very smart advocate of AE/RE/EE might somehow believe 
the material or repeat the material... the snowball effect of STUPID could be 
devastating!

Having said all of that, I will re state my position... such drivel as that 
material is GOOFBALL and the person that wrote it is a prize winning GOOF!  and 
I don't give a ratz a$$ if that is making fun of people or not. It is true and 
I could just as easily use much stronger language... we have no place in 
AE/RE/EE for STUPID, we don't have the time and we can not afford the cost of 
alienating the public, who generally already looks at us as strange (to say the 
least) because of the press the lunatic fringe gets. Making stupid comments 
about earthquakes being caused by pumping oil or that burring alcohol produces 
no emissions.. does NOT help the cause!

I know I come across to a lot of you as a loud mouth jerk... will perhaps I am, 
but if you follow what I am loud mouthed about, you may see a certain 
pattern... I deeply dislike radical extremists (on either side of the political 
spectrum), hucksters and dimbulbs who think they know everything and know 
NOTHING. It is false to say that we need to be extreme to counteract the Big 
Oil side this only creates chaos and the general public turns away 
especially when we seek to force our will through legislation that mandates 
they do what WE feel is right.

Mike (the loud mouthed jerk)

  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; biofuel@egroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 7:17 AM
  Subject: Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max


  Max, 

  I think you should avoid making fun of people that clearly know a lot more 
than you do.  It makes you look bad.  /Ernie Rogers 



 Yeah, good ole Steve Spence has some good stuff occasionally, but he is a 
 bit off the wall... I am still giggling over the blue flame is clean and 
the 
 yellow flame is dirty... not to mention that there is NO pollution when 
your 
 burn alcohol... And the bald face BS about earthquakes being caused by 
 pumping out oil AHEHEHEHEH! 
 
 I rest my case that the AE goof balls need to be a bit less goofy and a 
bit 
 more practical... else nobody will listen, unless they are tuning in to 
 comic relief 
 
 Laughing Max 
 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines


 NOVEMBER 13, 2000 
 NEWSMAKER QA 
 The Man behind Toyota's Green Machines 
 Hiroyuki Watanabe explains how his team developed
 the revolutionary gas-electric Prius
 and what's coming next in clean cars 
 
 -snip-

 Q: Which system is the greenest?

 A: We approach this in a very holistic way. The conventional way
 to evaluate emissions is to simply measure waste gases at the
 tailpipe while the car is running. A better way is to calculate
 the net environmental load of the vehicle -- this is sometimes
 called well to pump plus pump to wheel costs. 

 The first half [well to pump] counts for the cost of extracting
 and processing the fuel. The second half [pump to wheel] is the
 traditional measure of how efficient a vehicle is at converting
 fuel into motion. Using this method, the environmental impact
 of different engine systems can be surprising. 

 For example, gas engines are about 84% efficient from well to pump,
 but just 15% efficient from pump to wheel. 
 But the overall efficiency is about 13%. 
 [MH: to figure efficiency multiply 0.84 x 0.15 = 0.126 or about 13% ]

 Hybrid cars do much better by this measure. 
 From well to pump, they are about 84% efficient. And from pump to wheel,
 they are 30% efficient. So, for a hybrid, overall well-to-wheel
 efficiency is 25%. 
 [MH: to figure efficiency multiply 0.84 x 0.30 = 0.252 or about 25% ]

 For battery-only vehicles, overall efficiency is about 21%.
 [MH: coal to electricity is about 30%, grid efficiency 90%,
 battery charging efficiency 90%, motor efficiency 90%. 
 To figure efficiency multiply 0.30 x 0.90 x 0.90 x 0.90 = 0.2187 or hmmm ]

 http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/nov2000/nf20001113_736.htm
 [MH: The interview also included fuel cells and diesel engine, etc ]

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Re: Ri:[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 05/15/02


It's what you wrote, but I am not agree, because we are discussing 
the problems about biofuels and here you introduced wind energy and 
solar energy.

Best Regards

Ezio

No need to read it then. EREN publishes a lot of news about biofuels.

Keith



  =
  EREN NETWORK NEWS -- May 15, 2002
  A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE)
  Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN).
  http://www.eren.doe.gov/
  =
 
  Featuring:
  *News and Events
 Farm Bill Boosts Bioenergy Production, Renewable Energy Use
 Cargill Dow, Ashland to Produce Biobased Solvent
 GE Buys Enron Wind; Vestas Receives Large U.S. Wind Order
 New Jersey State Government Buys Green Power
 Six Green Tag Providers Earn Green-e Certification
 Rosebud Sioux to Build First Tribal Utility-Scale Turbine
 EPA Recognizes Nearly 300 Commuter Choice Leaders
 
  *Energy Facts and Tips
 EPA Examines Greenhouse Gas Emissions by Sector, Strength
 
  *About this Newsletter


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[biofuel] FW: Problelms with FUELCELL Vehicles

2002-05-15 Thread kirk

-Original Message-
From: USH2 HYDROGEN NEWS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Problelms with FUELCELL Vehicles

Most people view a fuel cell as a magical little box.  Hydrogen and air is
put
in one side and magically electricity comes out the other side.   No moving
parts
and no noise.

Fuel cells of the size needed to move a vehicle down the road are
considerable
heat engines.  On a REALLY good day, a Proton Exchange Membrane (PEM) fuel
cell
MIGHT be 40% efficient.  That is if it can get its heat away fast enough.
Where
is the heat coming from??   If a fuel cell is only 40% efficient, then the
other
60% of the energy going into the fuel cell comes out as heat.  In small fuel
cells this heat is dissipated though the case to the air.  In a large fuel
cell
it does not have enough case surface area to shed its heat fast enough.  The
fuel cell can get too hot and destroy its membrane and BYE BYE, you just
lost
your $5000 / kilowatt fuel cell.

In order to remove the heat fast enough a large fuel cell has a cooling
system
built into it.  The cooling system is either on the fuel cell case or is
normally
built into the plates that form the internal cells. ( to see the internals
of
a fuel cell, get the 7 Hour Video Hydrogen / Fuel Cell Seminar at
http://www.KnowledgePublications.com
)  These can be air cooled or liquid cooled and in the case of a vehicle the
fuel cell is usually liquid cooled.  Well... now you need liquid pumps,
blower
fans, heat exchangers and other apparatus.  There goes your quiet no moving
parts
and magical fuel cell.  Where is the energy coming from to run the coolant
pump,
the blower fan and the control equipment?  It is coming from the fuel cell
and
subtracting from that nice 40% (on a good day) efficient number.

For the same horse power ( or kilowatts) of energy, a fuel cell must have a
LARGER
cooling system than the same sized internal combustion engine.  Why??  The
IC
engine has two streams for its waste heat.  These are the exhaust pipe and
the
cooling system (radiator).  VERY roughly, for every BTU of gasoline one
third
of the energy leaves the vehicle in the exhaust pipe, one third gets lost in
the cooling system and the other third goes into the crank of the engine to
move
the vehicle. ( the energy going into the crank now has to run the
alternator,
power steering, A/C compressor, radiator fan, and loose more energy in the
transmission,
drive line, axle and tires ).  So the waste heat ( about 66% of the incoming
BTU's) goes about evenly into the exhaust and the radiator.  Half this waste
heat goes right to the air by the exhaust.  It is gone.  The other half goes
into the cooling system and is rejected from the vehicle by air flowing
through
the radiator.  The coolant temperature of an average IC engine running near
its
maximum horse power rating can get NO higher than about 250F  ( in an
average
cooling system ) before harm starts happening to the engine.

Why does this mean a fuel cell vehicle must have a larger cooling system?
Because
a fuel cell must reject ALL of its 60% of the incoming BTU's of energy into
a
COOLING SYSTEM.  It is too dense physically to reject all of its waste heat
to
an air stream.  So size for size a fuel cell must reject approximately twice
the BTU's through a liquid medium cooling system than the same sized IC
engine
would, but it gets worse.  The IC engine has a maximum coolant temp of 250F,
the fuel cell has a maximum coolant temp of 160F.   If you have a hot day,
lets
say 100F ambient ( and we use to test in 130F ambient), then the rate of
heat
rejection between 160F coolant and 100F air is MUCH LOWER than the heat
rejection
from 250F coolant and 100F air.  Not only does the fuel cell have to remove
double
the heat as an IC engine it must have a double sized radiator because it has
a lower temperature differential (called delta T) for heat exchange to the
atmosphere.
 So, before we start doing engineering tricks to make a fuel cell vehicle
work,
we are looking at starting with a cooling system about 4 times the size of
one
for the same size IC engine.  OUCH!!

For engineering tricks, the same thing is done for a fuel cell vehicle that
was
done for a battery-powered vehicle; the size of the vehicle is decreased and
the 'engine' is decreased in size.  Instead of 100 horse power there is the
electrical
equivalent of a 25 horse power fuel cell in the vehicle.  This is ok for a
vehicle
to drive to the corner coffee shop in California for the morning double
mocha
with non-dairy no whip foam with sprinkles, but for a working vehicle, a
truck
that must haul a load it will not work.  It takes a given amount of horse
power
to haul load, it does not matter if it is a fuel cell or an IC engine, the
same
amount of work must be done to move a given weight up a hill or against the
wind
with a normal rolling resistance and that given amount of horsepower is
going
to need a 'given' size of a

Re: [biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines


 To add diesel to the mix there about 30-40% efficient.
 With city/highway driving at say 50/50
 I'll figure diesel at 20% efficient proportional to gasoline
 which is up to 30% abouts.
 0.84 x 0.20 = 0.168 or about 17% well to wheel.

 To summarize from well to wheel vehicles: 
 13%  Gasoline
 17%  Diesel
 21%  Electric
 25%  Hybrid Electric Vehicle (gasoline)
 33%  HEV diesel (just guessing)

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Re: [biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines


 To add diesel to the mix there about 30-40% efficient.
 With city/highway driving at say 50/50
 I'll figure diesel at 20% efficient proportional to gasoline
 which is up to 30% abouts.
 0.84 x 0.20 = 0.168 or about 17% well to wheel.

 To summarize from well to wheel vehicles:
 13%  Gasoline
 17%  Diesel
 21%  Electric
 25%  Hybrid Electric Vehicle (gasoline)
 33%  HEV diesel (just guessing)

 --

That's an interesting interview, Hoagy. And a nice summary. Since 
Watanabe was talking of overall environmental effects, GGs, etc, it 
should be added that it's important where the electric vehicle gets 
its power from - from RE sources, great, from fossil-fuel sources, 
not so great. (And also how the batteries are disposed of.) How about 
if the other four used biofuels? No, don't try, it'll bust your 
calculator - interesting to know though, eh?

Regards

Keith


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Re: [biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines

2002-05-15 Thread Shaen Rooney


If you are interested in full energy cycle analysis of advanced 
fuel/engine combinations, see 
http://www.transportation.anl.gov/ttrdc/pdfs/TA/13.pdf





Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
05/15/2002 01:57 PM
Please respond to biofuel

 
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc: (bcc: Shaen Rooney/APCP/DEQ/MODNR)
Subject:Re: [biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines

 To add diesel to the mix there about 30-40% efficient.
 With city/highway driving at say 50/50
 I'll figure diesel at 20% efficient proportional to gasoline
 which is up to 30% abouts.
 0.84 x 0.20 = 0.168 or about 17% well to wheel.

 To summarize from well to wheel vehicles:
 13%  Gasoline
 17%  Diesel
 21%  Electric
 25%  Hybrid Electric Vehicle (gasoline)
 33%  HEV diesel (just guessing)

 --

That's an interesting interview, Hoagy. And a nice summary. Since 
Watanabe was talking of overall environmental effects, GGs, etc, it 
should be added that it's important where the electric vehicle gets 
its power from - from RE sources, great, from fossil-fuel sources, 
not so great. (And also how the batteries are disposed of.) How about 
if the other four used biofuels? No, don't try, it'll bust your 
calculator - interesting to know though, eh?

Regards

Keith



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[biofuel] Fwd: Spray Weeds With Vinegar?

Anybody want to try this with FFAs?

Keith

Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:40:31 -0400
Subject: Spray Weeds With Vinegar?
To: ARS News subscriber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: ARS News Service [EMAIL PROTECTED]
List-Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: ARS News Service [EMAIL PROTECTED]

STORY LEAD:
Spray Weeds With Vinegar?

___

ARS News Service
Agricultural Research Service, USDA
Don Comis, (301) 504-1625, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
May 15, 2002
___

Some home gardeners already use vinegar as a herbicide, and some garden
stores sell vinegar pesticides. But no one has tested it scientifically
until now.

Agricultural Research Service scientists offer the first scientific
evidence that it may be a potent weedkiller that is inexpensive and
environmentally safe--perfect for organic farmers.

ARS researchers Jay Radhakrishnan, John R. Teasdale and Ben Coffman in
Beltsville, Md., tested vinegar on major weeds--common lamb's-quarters,
giant foxtail, velvetleaf, smooth pigweed and Canada thistle--in
greenhouse and field studies.

They hand-sprayed the weeds with various solutions of vinegar, uniformly
coating the leaves. The researchers found that 5- and 10-percent
concentrations killed the weeds during their first two weeks of life.
Older plants required higher concentrations of vinegar to kill them. At
the higher concentrations, vinegar had an 85- to 100-percent kill rate at
all growth stages. A bottle of household vinegar is about a 5-percent
concentration.

Canada thistle, one of the most tenacious weeds in the world, proved the
most susceptible; the 5-percent concentration had a 100-percent kill rate
of the perennial's top growth. The 20-percent concentration can do this in
about 2 hours.

Spot spraying of cornfields with 20 percent vinegar killed 80 to 100
percent of weeds without harming the corn, but the scientists stress the
need for more research. If the vinegar were sprayed over an entire field,
it would cost about $65 per acre. If applied to local weed infestations
only, such as may occur in the crop row after cultivation, it may only
cost about $20 to $30.

The researchers use only vinegar made from fruits or grains, to conform to
organic farming standards.

ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research
agency.

___
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Re: [biofuel] FW: Problelms with FUELCELL Vehicles

2002-05-15 Thread Harmon Seaver

On Wed, May 15, 2002 at 12:12:36PM -0600, kirk wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: USH2 HYDROGEN NEWS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 2:06 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Problelms with FUELCELL Vehicles

(snip)

 )  These can be air cooled or liquid cooled and in the case of a vehicle the
 fuel cell is usually liquid cooled.  Well... now you need liquid pumps,
 blower

These also could be -- should be, in fact -- Thermal Electric Generators --
solid state stuff. 

 the radiator.  The coolant temperature of an average IC engine running near
 its
 maximum horse power rating can get NO higher than about 250F  ( in an
 average
 cooling system ) before harm starts happening to the engine.

   This isn't true, air-cooled engines regularly run at much higher temps. The
heads on my VW 2.0L engine in my '73 bus run anywhere from 350F-600F, I've got
temp sensors on the heads, and oil, which runs from 200F - 250F. Of course,
that's why air-cooled engines are not nearly as long lasting as liquid cooled. 

-- 
Harmon Seaver   
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com

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Re: [biofuel] Stoichiometric values

2002-05-15 Thread Christian


I can«t send HTML on this list, please make a list of those who would want
the mentioned table of FA content of different oils, and I«ll send it to
your personal email (off-list)
please send your request (for this particular table) to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] today.

Regards,

Christian

snip
 Could we figure out a table for the most common oils? Say soy,
 rapeseed/canola, corn, sunflower, cottonseed, peanut, olive, coconut,
 palm, tallow. That would be really useful. We'd need to know the FA
 breakdown of each, SG etc. There are some figures here for the main





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Re: [biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max


I have not found much material to refute or confirm the items that Mike
found offensive. But I will look at material I pass closely, and clearly
mark it as third party, and not editorial. Much of the article was on the
money.


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/
Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/2000/humanpower.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Energy Services [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; biofuel@yahoogroups.com;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max


 Ernie,

 Thank you for your two cents worth of sage advice,

 as it turns out, Steve and I have had some conversation on the matter.
Please consider the following points:

 1:  I apologized to Steve for any reference to him as being a GOOF and
certainly extend that apology to any of you that took offense. In actuality,
I never did specifically refer to Steve as a goofball.

 2:  The goofball comment was directed at the author of the editorial
comments that Steve emailed to everyone, while I found it hard to believe
that Steve wrote such nonsense, there was no reference as to who did and no
comments made by Steve. It had the appearance that this was from Steve...
and was way below his intelligence level.

 3:  In our correspondence, it comes out that he found the article from
someone he thought was intelligent and who he could trust and passed it on
to all of us without really reading the material... he even went so far as
to say he did not (say) some of the stuff that WAS said. I think he finally
read it through and had one of those defining moments...

 4:  The fact that Steve DID NOT write the material and DOES NOT endorse it
makes a lot more sense and Steve agrees he should be a lot more careful in
forwarding material in the future. If I had not been offensive it may
never have dawned on Steve that he was making these kinds of errors. Worse,
some of you, knowing Steve is a very smart advocate of AE/RE/EE might
somehow believe the material or repeat the material... the snowball effect
of STUPID could be devastating!

 Having said all of that, I will re state my position... such drivel as
that material is GOOFBALL and the person that wrote it is a prize winning
GOOF!  and I don't give a ratz a$$ if that is making fun of people or not.
It is true and I could just as easily use much stronger language... we have
no place in AE/RE/EE for STUPID, we don't have the time and we can not
afford the cost of alienating the public, who generally already looks at us
as strange (to say the least) because of the press the lunatic fringe gets.
Making stupid comments about earthquakes being caused by pumping oil or that
burring alcohol produces no emissions.. does NOT help the cause!

 I know I come across to a lot of you as a loud mouth jerk... will perhaps
I am, but if you follow what I am loud mouthed about, you may see a certain
pattern... I deeply dislike radical extremists (on either side of the
political spectrum), hucksters and dimbulbs who think they know everything
and know NOTHING. It is false to say that we need to be extreme to
counteract the Big Oil side this only creates chaos and the general
public turns away especially when we seek to force our will through
legislation that mandates they do what WE feel is right.

 Mike (the loud mouthed jerk)

   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;
biofuel@egroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 7:17 AM
   Subject: Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max


   Max,

   I think you should avoid making fun of people that clearly know a lot
more than you do.  It makes you look bad.  /Ernie Rogers



  Yeah, good ole Steve Spence has some good stuff occasionally, but he
is a
  bit off the wall... I am still giggling over the blue flame is clean
and
 the
  yellow flame is dirty... not to mention that there is NO pollution
when
 your
  burn alcohol... And the bald face BS about earthquakes being caused
by
  pumping out oil AHEHEHEHEH!

Re: [biofuel] Toyota's Green Machines


 Shaen writes: 
 If you are interested in full energy cycle analysis of advanced
 fuel/engine combinations, see
 http://www.transportation.anl.gov/ttrdc/pdfs/TA/13.pdf


 Thank you.  Got to PDF page 25, report page 5 viewing
 Table 1.3  Oil and Natural Gas Reserves
 comparing oil reserves to NG reserves - oil Btu equivalent in barrels.
 997.6 x 10^9 barrels of world oil
 877.8 x 10^9 barrels of world NG
 As of January 1, 1998

 MH writes:
  To add diesel to the mix there about 30-40% efficient.
  With city/highway driving at say 50/50
  I'll figure diesel at 20% efficient proportional to gasoline
  which is up to 30% abouts.
  0.84 x 0.20 = 0.168 or about 17% well to wheel.
 
  To summarize from well to wheel vehicles:
  13%  Gasoline
  17%  Diesel
  21%  Electric
  25%  Hybrid Electric Vehicle (gasoline)
  33%  HEV diesel (just guessing)
 
  --

 Keith writes:
 That's an interesting interview, Hoagy. And a nice summary. Since
 Watanabe was talking of overall environmental effects, GGs, etc, it
 should be added that it's important where the electric vehicle gets
 its power from - from RE sources, great, from fossil-fuel sources,
 not so great. (And also how the batteries are disposed of.) How about
 if the other four used biofuels? No, don't try, it'll bust your
 calculator - interesting to know though, eh?
 
 Regards
 
 Keith

 I agree and I thought about calculating
 liquid RE but are there studies or reports for NEV (Net Energy Value)
 or net energy balance for Rapeseed/Canola NEV or others besides corn ?? 
 The comparison of petroleum NEV to cellulosic ethanol caught my
 attention but oils have higher Btu values then gasoline/ethanol. 
 The remaining cellulose of corn would increase NEV when converted, si?
 At lest we can view gasoline to ethanol on a fairly level basis. 

 I'd be interested in a comparative assessment
 of ethanol and biodiesel in terms of
 biodegradability, toxicity, sulfur content,
 sequestering CO2 or carbon neutral qualities,
 exhaust emissions on a low to mid level
 exposure studying human friendliness.
 RE (Renewable Energy) significance seems worth noticing. 
 I've read biodiesel.org's MSDS  emissions but not ethanol.
 
 Repeating NEV or well to pump, if you may, for:
 k = thousand
 - Corn ethanol 20k to 25k divide by 76k = 26 to 33 percent net energy.
 - Petroleum crude is reported to be 84 percent net energy.
 - Cellulosic ethanol 60k divide by 76k = 79 percent net energy.
 - Electrolyses H2 hydrogen 50-67 percent net energy b4 other inputs
   correction welcomed.
 [ All numbers rounded off ]

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Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Spray Weeds With Vinegar?

2002-05-15 Thread mark


Hey, I use it and it works, better than Round-Up and others. 
Give it a try. Good gardening,

Mark

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Re: [biofuel] truck question


ford, Chevy, dodge, all make 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton diesel pickups.


Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 12:52 AM
Subject: [biofuel] truck question


 Suppose one wanted a half ton truck with diesel motor.  Can you buy one,
and
 if not, is a conversion fesible, and if so, what would you recommend?

 Glenn Ellis


 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [biofuel] Go beyond the big 3!!


a big 10-4! sides, chevy and gmc are the same thing.

Steve Spence
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- Original Message -
From: Trudy Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 11:12 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Go beyond the big 3!!


 Get a Cummins Diesel with Chrysler-Daimler!!

 -Original Message-
 From: kirk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 2:49 PM
 To: Biofuel@Yahoogroups.Com
 Subject: [biofuel]


 Of the big three (Ford, Chevy, GMC) which diesel is the one to buy?

 Kirk



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Re: [biofuel] heating a home.


stay tuned for plans for a babington steam cogenerator.

Steve Spence
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- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 10:29 PM
Subject: [biofuel] heating a home.


 I have been a reader of this newsletter for a while, but have seen
 little on the application of untreated WVO for Home Heating
 purposes.  I am looking for specific information - and i may not find
 it.

 In short, is there a unit or design plan for an easy to use automated
 WVO home heating unit?  I am aware of waste oil burners for
 commercial use, which atomize fuel with an air compresor. I am
 aware of Mother Jone's asbestos plate drip method. The problem
 with these are noise (air compressor) and safety (the drip method
 is really not a unit that could heat a enclose water system.) Teh
 baddington burner is not an option either.

 Is there are duel fuel oil burner: burn home heating oil(HHO) to
 heat home and my WVO tank to temperature, then automatically
 switch to WVO at xdegrees for easy atomization.  Then run down
 on HHO to avoid any carbon deposits.

 I would think this has been done but maybe not?

 I have seen ads for TCD enterprises waste oil burner, and am
 contacting them directly.  DOn't know if they fit the bill.

 So, maybe I missed a posting or maybe it can't be done.

 BUT.. if it can... well, it would be nice.

 thanks.

 dan


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Re: Re: [biofuel] Dumb Question Was: Digest Number 945


That sounds completely accurate.

Steve Spence
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- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 9:54 PM
Subject: RE: Re: [biofuel] Dumb Question Was: Digest Number 945


 steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Those who say that ethanol is not net energy positive, never distilled a
 drop.
 
 It is net energy positive. Like anything, it can be done badly.
 
 energy in  energy out.

 (snip)

 My wife and I visited the Reeves AgriEnergy Company in Garden City KS a
few weeks back.  The spokesman said at the time it took 36,000 purchased
BTU's to make a gallon of anhydrous alcohol and that a gallon of anhydrous
alcohol (I can't remember) somewhere around 70,000 BTU's in it.

 He also said they sold anhydrous alcohol for .97 cents (US) a gallon.
This does not include any road or sales tax.

 George

 
 Steve Spence
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 - Original Message -
 From: Curtis Sakima [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 9:27 PM
 Subject: [biofuel] Dumb Question Was: Digest Number 945
 
 
  I have this dumb question .. but it's always buggin'
  me.
 
  Ethanol is always spoken of as not energy efficient.
   I take to mean that more energy needs to be poured in
  than comes out in the form of ethanol.
 
  Got THAT.  Makes sense ... since ethanol is sort of an
  energy carrier  energy-in minus
  less-than-100%-efficiency equal smaller energy-out.
 
  My dumb question is that ... why not build a AE power
  plant next to it??  Like a solar, hydro, wind or
  whatever??  Then use the ethanol as an energy
  carrier.  To liquefy the AE's output to a storable
  form.  I can't understand why the argument goes to
  not energy efficient and then DIES right there.
  I mean, the ethanol plant is a stationary plant ... it
  doesn't move anywhere!!
 
 
  My second thing is just a comment.  They always say
  that the emission controls with ethanol would be more
  complicated.  But I think that's only because the
  vehicle is trying to be dual-fueled.
 
  I used to work on LPG/gasoline vehicle and the only
  reason for the complication is that the emission
  controls had to switch back -n- forth when it is
  dual-fueled.
 
  I think if it were only optimized for one fuel (like
  ethanol, things would be just fine.
 
  Curtis
 
 
  --- Jeremy Shuey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --snip
  Ethanol is an alcohol fuel (and motor-fuel additive
  derived from corn; thus it is touted as a way to help
  end America's dependence upon Middle Eastern oil, as
  well as a means of helping the environment.
 
  But ethanol is no environmental panacea; nor is it
  energy-efficient. Far from it. Producing ethanol is
  costly and complex, and uses up more oil-based energy
  resources than the gasoline and other motor fuels it
  would ostensibly replace.
 
  And burning ethanol in an internal-combustion engine
  creates environmental problems, too, which add to the
  complexity of the air-quality problem by throwing yet
  another variable into the emissions-control equation.
  Multiple types of fuel, and different requirements
  regarding fuel additives, make it harder for the auto
  industry to develop effective new emissions-control
  equipment. Different fuel types and additive packages
  can (and do) compromise the effectiveness and
  long-term durability of the emissions-control
  equipment already in service.
 
 
  =
  Join the Revolution!
  http://thincnet.com/revolution9/downline/vdownline.html?9107
 
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  http://launch.yahoo.com
 
 
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Re: [biofuel] truck question

2002-05-15 Thread glenne1949


Thanks  Steve; I wasn't aware that all three put out a half ton.  

Glenn Ellis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Re: [renewable-energy] to Laughing Max