[biofuels-biz] EREN Network News -- 07/03/02
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- July 3, 2002 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events First Large Wind Plants Planned for Illinois, West Virginia Toyota to Lease 20 Fuel-Cell-Powered SUVs by Early 2003 DOE Selects Six Projects to Advance Automotive Technologies DOE Awards $4.6 Million for Alternative Fuels and Vehicles BMW, GM Draw on Landfill Methane to Power Auto Plants Habitat for Humanity Builds Zero-Net-Energy Prototype Homes DOE Awards $79 Million for Efficiency, Home Weatherization *Site News EERE Launches Redesigned Web Site to Match New Organization *Energy Facts and Tips U.S. Energy-Related Carbon Emissions Decreased in 2001 *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- First Large Wind Plants Planned for Illinois, West Virginia Two of the largest wind power facilities east of the Mississippi will be built in Illinois and West Virginia within the year, developers announced last week. The two wind plants will be the first commercial wind power facilities in each state. Illinois Wind Energy and Tomen Power Corporation plan to build a 51-megawatt wind power facility near Tiskilwa, Illinois, approximately 110 miles west of Chicago. The Crescent Ridge wind energy project will employ 34 of NEG Micon's 1.5-megawatt wind turbines, providing enough power for roughly 20,000 homes. Commonwealth Edison (ComEd) is buying all the power from the project, which should be completed by mid-2003. Unlike most recent wind projects, the power will be included in ComEd's regular power supply, rather than sold at a premium as green power. See the ComEd press release at: http://www.ceco.com/news/comed/display.asp?a=ComEdrec_id=498. In West Virginia, FPL Energy is preparing to build a 66-megawatt wind plant called the Mountaineer Wind Energy Center. FPL Energy bought the project rights from Atlantic Renewable Energy Corporation, which had previously pursued it under the name of the Backbone Mountain Wind Project. Construction will begin this month on the wind power facility, which will comprise 44 of NEG Micon's 1.5-megawatt wind turbines along Backbone Mountain, located near the town of Thomas. Construction is expected to be complete by year-end. See the FPL Energy press release at: http://www.fplenergy.com/newsreleases/2002/02078.html. According to NEG Micon, the turbines for the West Virginia project will cost FPL Energy about $40 million. But FPL Energy also has an option to buy an additional 350 1.5-megawatt turbines -- totaling 525 megawatts of wind capacity -- through the end of 2003. If FPL Energy exercises that option, it would represent a total purchase worth roughly $400 million. See the June 26th press release from NEG Micon at: http://www.neg-micon.com/press/releases.html. While the West Virginia and Illinois projects charge ahead, a proposed 420-megawatt wind plant in the waters offshore of Massachusetts continues to advance slowly but steadily through the permitting process. In late June, the Army Corps of Engineers released its Scope of Work for the Cape Wind project's Environmental Impact Statement. See the Corps press release at: http://www.nae.usace.army.mil/news/2002-86.html. The 7-page Scope of Work is available in PDF format only at: http://www.nae.usace.army.mil/projects/ma/ccwf/CapeWindEIS.pdf. Toyota to Lease 20 Fuel-Cell-Powered SUVs by Early 2003 Toyota Motor Corporation announced Monday that it will begin leasing a limited number of its fuel-cell-powered sport utility vehicles (SUVs) in the United States and Japan around the end of this year. The announcement follows successful road tests of the company's fuel cell prototype, the FCHV-1. The U.S. version of the hydrogen-fueled fuel cell SUV will be based on the Toyota Highlander. Toyota plans to lease a total of 20 vehicles to entities that have access to a hydrogen fueling system and to Toyota's service specialists. Because of the vehicle's high cost and decreased performance in cold weather, Toyota will only offer the leases to select private businesses, technology-related companies, institutional organizations and research facilities. See the Toyota press release at: http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2002/07/01-1-fuelcell.html DOE Selects Six Projects to Advance Automotive Technologies DOE announced on June 26th the selection of five small businesses and one university to develop automotive components and subsystems for cleaner, more fuel-efficient cars. The projects total more than $1 million in cost-shared research, of which DOE will provide up to $900,000 through its
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
Well the main problem is if the ethanol is not pure. Then you get rust inside your fuel tank and line...major catastrophy if you ask me. How come the octane is so low over there, in Australia we have 96 and 98 octane, how come there is such a vast difference? we also pay $1 per litre or roughly with exchange rates included $2.3 per gallon(American). That may be the cause of our higher octane but I doubt it. What sort of cars do you have over there, we are getting really shit ones of late...mainly Holdensor GMH's(sub-branch of GMC) I managed however to get a 1973 Landaumy baby and the amazing thing is that its got more grunt than the new cars. Thats something in the movie the blues brothers the Dodge sedan that they were driving(1970 cop car) do you see many of them? also for pure interest as you would more than likely see the cars.what is the best a Chevvy a Ford or a Dodge? they all have their good points. Also do you know where I can get ceramic engine parts from? try going to google.com and searching for ceramic engines if you don't already know, its I think the first link on the searched page. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As it happens, I filled up with 91 Octane instead of 87 or 89. Really a 1 in 100 choice on my part. Usually I choose 87 without thinking. But I once read a discussion of the Midwest U.S. that said that even there sometimes the only ethanol is in the 91. So, maybe mine did contain ethanol. If so, it's hard to pronounce if there were problems associated with it, as my car is experiencing a problem with over-heating in traffic. I'm sure I'm misinformed on a couple of points, but it sure was nice to see that it might be in my tank, given the battle that has occurred to get it in there. Now, what's this about it being bad for my car? Are you saying generally bad, or only when there's too much water, or what? jl On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 03:42:36 +0100 (BST), you wrote: A few stations over here in Australia are trying the same thingbeware ethanol contains water and water it down they do. Honestly it is very bad for any vehicle and should only be used in emergencies with octane boosters. By the way has anyone seen or collected any info on structure and build-designs of ceramic engines? [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stopped at a 76 station on route 5 today midway between LA and San Francisco and noticed a sign on the pump reading that the fuel may contain ethanol. Can't recall but it may have been phrased almost as though it were a warning, though not as harsh as the MTBE warnings you see. Anyway, I don't see these signs yet in So.Cal. but I'll keep looking. Re-examination of the ethanol stories shows Philips as one of the companies going somewhat ethanol, so that makes sense. Don't know the reason for the ambivalent may contain though. I wonder if they'd just be using it as an octane enhancer or something. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Relive the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights! http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Relive the FIFA World Cup goals with exclusive video highlights! http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/fc/en [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
What sort of cars do you have over there, we are getting really shit ones of late...mainly Holdensor GMH's(sub-branch of GMC) There have always been too many choices here for me to really keep track of. This news story on yahoo today gives an idea of the different manufacturers available here, and you can fill in the sub-choices: http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/020702/autos_groups_table_1.html There are only a few traditional western marques which are not available here, notably Renault, Citroen, Lancia (I think) and perhaps Peugeot (I'm not sure). Probably a few others. There are also individual models not made available here, such as the high-mileage VW Lupo (Diesel). I managed however to get a 1973 Landaumy baby and the amazing thing is that its got more grunt than the new cars. Thats something in the movie the blues brothers the Dodge sedan that they were driving(1970 cop car) do you see many of them? I probably know less about the technical aspects of cars and engines and fuels than many here, but I think it's fairly basic that American vehicles (particularly cars)lost some of their grunt after a certain point, so it is not uncommon for older vehicles to be more powerful. A 60's or 70's v-8 sedan would certainly have more get-up-and-go than a 90's 4 or 6 cylinder, and the later models I think were subject to stricter catalytic converter requirements. One of the reasons that SUV's have become so popular here is that they tend to come with much more powerful engines than cars a result not just of engineering issues but of legislation which classified the vehicles differently than cars for Corporate Average Fuel Economy calculations. Many SUV and truck owners are ignorant of this and assume incorrectly that their vehicles come with more powerful engines for no other reason than to power a larger vehicle. Funny how you have the Blues Brothers car in mind. When I was growing up, we certainly enjoyed that film and its car points (Aykroyd is a real motorhead and the car focus comes from his interest), but one of our own ideal cars was (of course) the Australian Mad Max Interceptor. I read on a DVD cover that there was a scene not included in the original Blues Brothers movie, apparently, where they showed how it got its secret powers, by recharging it in some power station near Wrigley Field every night. also for pure interest as you would more than likely see the cars.what is the best a Chevvy a Ford or a Dodge? they all have their good points. No idea. Politically, I think a lot of activists are disgusted with GM for deliberately making a great EV and then not allowing for its mass-manufacture, and for fighting CARB so hard on the ZEV requirement. Dodge is no longer really entirely American in terms of ownership. That leaves Ford and their reputation for green-ness or progressiveness is not entirely deserved. I drove a GM EV1 the other day, for the second time. What an utterly fantastic car. Too bad, as we speak, that GM is arranging for its demise (and it has been years since they made any more anyway). Also do you know where I can get ceramic engine parts from? try going to google.com and searching for ceramic engines if you don't already know, its I think the first link on the searched page. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As it happens, I filled up with 91 Octane instead of 87 or 89. Really a 1 in 100 choice on my part. Usually I choose 87 without thinking. But I once read a discussion of the Midwest U.S. that said that even there sometimes the only ethanol is in the 91. So, maybe mine did contain ethanol. If so, it's hard to pronounce if there were problems associated with it, as my car is experiencing a problem with over-heating in traffic. I'm sure I'm misinformed on a couple of points, but it sure was nice to see that it might be in my tank, given the battle that has occurred to get it in there. Now, what's this about it being bad for my car? Are you saying generally bad, or only when there's too much water, or what? jl On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 03:42:36 +0100 (BST), you wrote: A few stations over here in Australia are trying the same thingbeware ethanol contains water and water it down they do. Honestly it is very bad for any vehicle and should only be used in emergencies with octane boosters. By the way has anyone seen or collected any info on structure and build-designs of ceramic engines? [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stopped at a 76 station on route 5 today midway between LA and San Francisco and noticed a sign on the pump reading that the fuel may contain ethanol. Can't recall but it may have been phrased almost as though it were a warning, though not as harsh as the MTBE warnings you see. Anyway, I don't see these signs yet in So.Cal. but I'll keep looking. Re-examination of the ethanol stories shows Philips as one of the companies going somewhat ethanol, so that makes sense. Don't know the reason
[biofuel] EREN Network News -- 07/03/02
= EREN NETWORK NEWS -- July 3, 2002 A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Network (EREN). http://www.eren.doe.gov/ = Featuring: *News and Events First Large Wind Plants Planned for Illinois, West Virginia Toyota to Lease 20 Fuel-Cell-Powered SUVs by Early 2003 DOE Selects Six Projects to Advance Automotive Technologies DOE Awards $4.6 Million for Alternative Fuels and Vehicles BMW, GM Draw on Landfill Methane to Power Auto Plants Habitat for Humanity Builds Zero-Net-Energy Prototype Homes DOE Awards $79 Million for Efficiency, Home Weatherization *Site News EERE Launches Redesigned Web Site to Match New Organization *Energy Facts and Tips U.S. Energy-Related Carbon Emissions Decreased in 2001 *About this Newsletter -- NEWS AND EVENTS -- First Large Wind Plants Planned for Illinois, West Virginia Two of the largest wind power facilities east of the Mississippi will be built in Illinois and West Virginia within the year, developers announced last week. The two wind plants will be the first commercial wind power facilities in each state. Illinois Wind Energy and Tomen Power Corporation plan to build a 51-megawatt wind power facility near Tiskilwa, Illinois, approximately 110 miles west of Chicago. The Crescent Ridge wind energy project will employ 34 of NEG Micon's 1.5-megawatt wind turbines, providing enough power for roughly 20,000 homes. Commonwealth Edison (ComEd) is buying all the power from the project, which should be completed by mid-2003. Unlike most recent wind projects, the power will be included in ComEd's regular power supply, rather than sold at a premium as green power. See the ComEd press release at: http://www.ceco.com/news/comed/display.asp?a=ComEdrec_id=498. In West Virginia, FPL Energy is preparing to build a 66-megawatt wind plant called the Mountaineer Wind Energy Center. FPL Energy bought the project rights from Atlantic Renewable Energy Corporation, which had previously pursued it under the name of the Backbone Mountain Wind Project. Construction will begin this month on the wind power facility, which will comprise 44 of NEG Micon's 1.5-megawatt wind turbines along Backbone Mountain, located near the town of Thomas. Construction is expected to be complete by year-end. See the FPL Energy press release at: http://www.fplenergy.com/newsreleases/2002/02078.html. According to NEG Micon, the turbines for the West Virginia project will cost FPL Energy about $40 million. But FPL Energy also has an option to buy an additional 350 1.5-megawatt turbines -- totaling 525 megawatts of wind capacity -- through the end of 2003. If FPL Energy exercises that option, it would represent a total purchase worth roughly $400 million. See the June 26th press release from NEG Micon at: http://www.neg-micon.com/press/releases.html. While the West Virginia and Illinois projects charge ahead, a proposed 420-megawatt wind plant in the waters offshore of Massachusetts continues to advance slowly but steadily through the permitting process. In late June, the Army Corps of Engineers released its Scope of Work for the Cape Wind project's Environmental Impact Statement. See the Corps press release at: http://www.nae.usace.army.mil/news/2002-86.html. The 7-page Scope of Work is available in PDF format only at: http://www.nae.usace.army.mil/projects/ma/ccwf/CapeWindEIS.pdf. Toyota to Lease 20 Fuel-Cell-Powered SUVs by Early 2003 Toyota Motor Corporation announced Monday that it will begin leasing a limited number of its fuel-cell-powered sport utility vehicles (SUVs) in the United States and Japan around the end of this year. The announcement follows successful road tests of the company's fuel cell prototype, the FCHV-1. The U.S. version of the hydrogen-fueled fuel cell SUV will be based on the Toyota Highlander. Toyota plans to lease a total of 20 vehicles to entities that have access to a hydrogen fueling system and to Toyota's service specialists. Because of the vehicle's high cost and decreased performance in cold weather, Toyota will only offer the leases to select private businesses, technology-related companies, institutional organizations and research facilities. See the Toyota press release at: http://www.toyota.com/about/news/product/2002/07/01-1-fuelcell.html DOE Selects Six Projects to Advance Automotive Technologies DOE announced on June 26th the selection of five small businesses and one university to develop automotive components and subsystems for cleaner, more fuel-efficient cars. The projects total more than $1 million in cost-shared research, of which DOE will provide up to $900,000 through its
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel - how?
James Field wrote: Not to sound too nieve or anything, but I've only just joined this group. My questions are thus: How is biodiesel made? is it used the same as dinodiesel? does it have any disadvantages? and does it give the same power output? You may have already answered all these before, however if anyone could humor me for just a minute I would be very thankfull. All you need is here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html Biodiesel: Journey to Forever Biofuels Library Biofuels supplies and suppliers Biodiesel Make your own biodiesel Mike Pelly's recipe Two-stage biodiesel process FOOLPROOF biodiesel process Guide to building a biodiesel mixer Biodiesel in Hong Kong Nitrogen Oxide emissions Glycerine Biodiesel resources on the Web Do diesels have a future? Vegetable oil yields and characteristics Bubble washing Biodiesel and your vehicle Food or fuel? Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel And more. Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
murdoch wrote: Stopped at a 76 station on route 5 today midway between LA and San Francisco and noticed a sign on the pump reading that the fuel may contain ethanol. Can't recall but it may have been phrased almost as though it were a warning, though not as harsh as the MTBE warnings you see. Anyway, I don't see these signs yet in So.Cal. but I'll keep looking. Re-examination of the ethanol stories shows Philips as one of the companies going somewhat ethanol, so that makes sense. Don't know the reason for the ambivalent may contain though. I wonder if they'd just be using it as an octane enhancer or something. James wrote: A few stations over here in Australia are trying the same thingbeware ethanol contains water and water it down they do. Honestly it is very bad for any vehicle and should only be used in emergencies with octane boosters. By the way has anyone seen or collected any info on structure and build-designs of ceramic engines? murdoch wrote: As it happens, I filled up with 91 Octane instead of 87 or 89. Really a 1 in 100 choice on my part. Usually I choose 87 without thinking. But I once read a discussion of the Midwest U.S. that said that even there sometimes the only ethanol is in the 91. So, maybe mine did contain ethanol. If so, it's hard to pronounce if there were problems associated with it, as my car is experiencing a problem with over-heating in traffic. I'm sure I'm misinformed on a couple of points, but it sure was nice to see that it might be in my tank, given the battle that has occurred to get it in there. Now, what's this about it being bad for my car? Are you saying generally bad, or only when there's too much water, or what? MH wrote: Alcohol tends to cool engine combustion so I've read. It may also clean fuel systems requiring fuel filter replacement. Its my hope your radiator fan is running properly and coolant level is adequate unless your thermostat is going. The only times I've experienced trouble with E-10 ethanol blended gasoline rated at 89 octane was several years ago when a notorious large chain of gasoline stations lost credibility with it clientele offering discounts per gallon to makeup market share only to change their marquee. Their was also a French chain that left me weary of their formulations. This was just before Minnesota was talking about transitioning to ethanol blends state wide 8-( My vehicle experienced hesitant power loses when excelerating and on occasion difficulty starting engine which required more alcohol in the tank and me jumping on the rear bumper to agitate mixture. Ten, fifteen minutes later my Stanley steamer headed down the road over the hills with the fuel sloshing about continuing where I left off. Other service station chains in Minnesota and Iowa had provided reliable service using E-10 ethanol blends and I haven't needed HEAT (methanol) or Isopropyl alcohols. Fast Facts About Ethanol Below-zero wind chills and fluctuating temperatures make ethanol-blended fuels the best choice for motorists during the winter months. When temperature varies, it causes moisture in the air to condense on the inside of fuel tanks and lines. Water in the fuel tank and lines can freeze, causing cars and trucks to stall or not start. These conditions can be avoided by using fuels containing ethanol. Ethanol attracts water in the fuel system, mixes with it, and carries it through the system with the fuel. This makes ethanol an excellent gas line antifreeze, eliminating the need to pay extra for an expensive over-the-counter product. Most small engine manufacturers have recognized the value of ethanol for years. Ethanol is safe for use in snowmobiles. Ethanol is safe for use in motorboats. http://www.iowacorn.org/cip_fastfacts.htm Questions and Answers about Water Contamination and Gasoline/Ethanol Blends Minnesota, USA - Weights Measures Petroleum Q: Is water contamination in gasoline a big problem in Minnesota? Q: How do you know if there is water in a station's gasoline? Q. If water might not be detected, what prevents station owners from watering down their gasoline/ethanol blends? Q: If station operators do not intentionally water down their product, how does water get into a station's storage tank? Q: If ethanol absorbs water, how can you have water contamination in a gasoline/ethanol blend? Q: What happens if people buy phase-separated gasoline? Q: Will everyone who buys phase-separated gasoline experience car problems? Q: How does a station operator remove the water from a phase-separated blend? Q: What should I do if I suspect I have purchased water contaminated gas? http://www.commerce.state.mn.us/pages/WeightMeasure/WMGasContam.htm Gas/Ethanol Fuels: Tank Up! by Bob Hoffmann, from the March 2001 Newsletter Moscow Food
Re: [biofuel] heat biodiesel
I have another question. What effects does heat have on biodiesel? Is biodiesel sensitive to sunlight? My questions are regarding the use of solar on biodiesel to inhibit bacterial growth. Bill C. Never seen any bacterial growth in biodiesel. I have some three-year-old biodiesel that's now survived everything from snow to tropical typhoons and is as good as new. Has anybody had their biodiesel go rotten, or heard of such a case? Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
MH wrote: Alcohol tends to cool engine combustion so I've read. It may also clean fuel systems requiring fuel filter replacement. Its my hope your radiator fan is running properly and coolant level is adequate unless your thermostat is going. There is almost certainly something temporarily wrong with my car. Thus, I am unable to relate anything to the ethanol (if there even was any in the gasoline). Fast Facts About Ethanol You cited a lot of facts about ethanol but to some extent they were in a jumble. It looks like ethanol's alleged damaging properties to engines are in great dispute. I have always thought that perhaps much of the allegation was nonsense, when I considered the source (the Petroleum Industry) but that there might be something to the matter, under some conditions, that might lead to non-optimal burning, given that engines are more or less optimized to run on a petroleum product. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
Ethanol works best in an engine when it contains between 10-25 percent water. Why should ethanol be used with octane boosters? It already has an octane above 100. James Field wrote: A few stations over here in Australia are trying the same thingbeware ethanol contains water and water it down they do. Honestly it is very bad for any vehicle and should only be used in emergencies with octane boosters. By the way has anyone seen or collected any info on structure and build-designs of ceramic engines? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel - how?
At 04:04 AM 7/3/2002 +0100, you wrote: Not to sound too nieve or anything, but I've only just joined this group. My questions are thus: How is biodiesel made? is it used the same as dinodiesel? does it have any disadvantages? and does it give the same power output? You may have already answered all these before, however if anyone could humor me for just a minute I would be very thankfull. From a dreadfully newbie viewpoint I found Christian's web site- which is listed under the message title PHOTOS of my BD or similar to be the best step by step explanation. Unfortunately I cleaned up my mail program and the message got deleted. Search the list/archives or... Christian could you provide another link to your site? Also go to Journey to Forever- listed under all of Keith's messages, he has lots of good stuff there, not just about biofuel. Caroline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding
Canberra Australia, Though I do a reasonable amount of outback touring. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] ignition retarding In a message dated 06/06/2002 7:49:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Jun 06, 2002 at 06:27:31PM +1000, Neil and Adele Craven wrote: Now for my Question. What is the issue if the ignition is not retarded 2-3 deg? As I live in Australia and cover many outback Klms where fuel production would not be possible (Thankfully I have 265ltrs on board capacity) I would need to keep the car suitable to run on dinodiesel. Neil Adele: Where do you live in the outback? Richard McPherson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA sulfur
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Keith, Hi Hoagy Thanks for this, nice... Could be quicker, could be hotter too, only 120-130F. Still, that's okay, they're doing good. Makes you think, though, eh? - all that free heat going to waste. Wonder why they don't use it? I don't know. Whadaya suggest. The Mother Earth News used it to warm water in the cooler times of the year if memory serves me. That's not really a good idea though, if you want good compost. Or, rather, you need to decide which is more important, getting some heat from it or getting and thorough and relatively quick compost. Taking heat from the pile can lower temps enough that some of the most important bacteria can't function. In northern climes especially, you're more in need of adding heat to the pile some of the year. Or composting inside, which I tried for the first time last year but it went anerobic. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] titration
Sunflower I am having some major problems with the titration of my oil. Using digital ph meter Oil/Isopropyl Alcohol mix 6.4 !% Caustic soda 10.5 20ml iso, 2ml oil 1ml CS brings the reading to 6.9 and all is heading right. 2ml of CS takes the reading to 6.85 3ml of CS takes the reading to 6.75 Lost my temper here slightly 12ml of CS took the reading to 6.35 ie below staring value. Repeated with Phenolpthalien (sp) took 25 - 30 ml to get a pink colour. After 2ml the oil drops out of solution and is difficult to get to mix again. and the mixture turns a cloudy white colour. All help gratefully accepted as my hair is in clumps on the workshop floor. Neil Canberra Australia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those interested, this beautiful book is available online at: http://www.weblife.org/humanure/default.html __ramjee. Hello Ramjee Very interesting too how Joseph Jenkins sells hard-copies of his book AND makes a free version available online at the same website. Would that more publishers realized the two are complementary, and that giving it away for nothing doesn't eat into hard-copy sales as alleged. Quite the opposite. More humanure resources here, by the way: http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html regards Keith There was a quite interesting workshop on composting toilets at the MREA energy fair. They were selling the Humanure book, essentially took the 5 gallon bucket and compost with straw approach, building a specific compost pile for the humanure out with a pallet frame and base, plus hardware cloth. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA sulfur
I should mention too that the guy at MREA, whose been composting humanure for decades, said turning is a bad idea, it loses heat, and, for humanure you want as much heat as possible. He also said let it go a year, make the piles big (pallet size), and just build another pile when the first if full, rather than trying to hurry it along. Obviously that doesn't work for apartment dwellers. 8-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
Practical Use of Ethanol 1. It is unlikely that the ethanol has been watered down. It is absorbing the water in storage and from your tank. It will take at least 3 to 4 full tanks full to get the water out. 2. As the ethanol cleans your system, your car is likely to run very poorly. The second and third tanks are the worst - stick with it, it is well worth the effort. 3. On my third tank the engine backfired and gave off a HUGE cloud of soot (the engine being cleaned). 4. I never had to change the fuel filter or anything on the car. 5. Because of the lower BTU content, your engine is likely to run somewhat cooler. Easier on the AC, harder to warm it up in the winter. This is the best gasoline available. Stick with it and I think you will be quite surprised at how well your engine runs. Craig Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] IT WORKS!!!
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 01:56, you wrote: I tried my BD on a direct injection diesel 504 Peugeot pickup. We bypassed the fuel line from the tank into a HDPE container. After two initial chokes (while the remaining fuel in the filter was changing, and maybe a bubble or two of air)... the engine started running smoothly. We measured gases with an opacity measurer (I think it«s scale is congruent with Bacharach scale). BTW, thanks to Todd and Steve for their Urgent replies yesterday. In the end, I did not use a prefilter (we where one hose connector short, so we didn«t want excessive cuts in the fuel line). Regards, Christian I have been running BD in my 405 Pug, and Supercharged Mazda 626 for a while now- no probs, seemingly no loss of power. Doug Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
- Original Message - From: Craig Pech [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 08:08 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use Practical Use of Ethanol 1. It is unlikely that the ethanol has been watered down. It is absorbing the water in storage and from your tank. It will take at least 3 to 4 full tanks full to get the water out. Get a bottle of ' Heet ' (it is made to remove water from gas tanks to keep gas lines from freezing ), this might help. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] tap water?
Hi all. Can anybody tell me: Can the washing stages use ordinary tap water or do they necessarily require distilled water? I might try to run a recycling program for used oil in the city. Many restaurants sell it at around 15 cents/lt (probably reused as second quelity oil for cheap chinese restaurants and other places), but distilled water increases costs deamatically if I am to make batches of up to 200 liters and plan to use the bubble wash method. Does free chlorine in the water bring any problems? Buying the used oil already makes things expensive, and the pretended volumes of WVO aren«t big enough to reach wholesale prices for methanol (Retail methanol costs about 2.5 pesos/lt... imagine it were equivalent to 2.5 dollars/lt, which it is not.. but as salaries and cost of living have not changed since the 1peso = 1 dollar times last year, you can assume no devaluation just to picture the price in terms of % of a salary. If I had saved dollars, that would roughly be 60 cents of a dollar per liter). To consider myself in business, at least for small scale production (the intention is to sell the BD... cheaper than dino diesel of course), I need to be very careful with costs, and that includes my source of water. Regards, Christian __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
Thanks to several different posters for putting up these various cumulatively informative explanations. For example with Craig's information I was able to see that there are both pros and cons that seem to come from a sort of dosage of ethanol, in terms of engine-cleaning. It may seem to a real enemy of the fuel that one can conclude that it's just a disaster, but in fact there's another side to the matter. That's the sort of thing that has always left me a bit wary of accepting any one simple explanation: proponents seem to sometimes not even acknowledge any drawbacks at all (such as what seems to be the temporarily worse performance in Craig's description) and detractors seem to take any temporary or condition-based drawbacks on performance as an excuse to dismiss the technology out-of-hand (a classic sign, in my opinion, that they lack a commitment to an objective evaluation of the technology). Practical Use of Ethanol 1. It is unlikely that the ethanol has been watered down. It is absorbing the water in storage and from your tank. It will take at least 3 to 4 full tanks full to get the water out. Get a bottle of ' Heet ' (it is made to remove water from gas tanks to keep gas lines from freezing ), this might help. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Alaska News
This is a publicly-traded-company press-release, so its value has to be discounted, but it was interesting to read: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020620/21_1.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] tap water?
Hi Christian! I didn't make much biodiesel yet, but I'm a chemist and I can tell you that tap water is perfect (in relation quality - expenses) for washing biodiesel. We are talking here about sub - massive production (not for laboratory scale) so distilled water is unnecesary expense. Alex Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA sulfur
Hi Harmon I should mention too that the guy at MREA, whose been composting humanure for decades, said turning is a bad idea, it loses heat, and, for humanure you want as much heat as possible. He also said let it go a year, make the piles big (pallet size), and just build another pile when the first if full, rather than trying to hurry it along. Obviously that doesn't work for apartment dwellers. 8-) Turning doesn't lose heat, you only turn it once it's cooled anyway. It may or may not be necessary - read Will Brinton's study that I posted previously: Sustainability of Modern Composting: Intensification Versus Costs Quality: http://www.woodsend.org/sustain.pdf The Gromor guys seemed to be doing frequent turning and watering to keep the heat down, but that's not at all necessary, IMO, and Brinton's, and it may be counter-productive. Which is not to say it won't work anyway. I don't think humanure needs any more heat than any other kind of composting. http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howardAT/ATapp3.html An Agricultural Testament - Albert Howard - Appendix C The Manufacture of Humus from the Wastes of the Town and the Village Van Vuren's pioneering work in South Africa confirms this, along with Wylie's in England, and Gotaas's work all over the place (not online yet). My own work in England also confirmed it. It's just thermophilic composting like any other. C:N ratio, moisture content, aeration apply the same as with any other materials. It'll go well above 65 deg C and stay there awhile, finished in a few weeks, cure it a few more, and that's it. That's not hurrying it along, that's just how it works. No need to leave it for a year, it won't accomplish anything, and unless you store it well it will lose quality in that time. If the actual composting process is taking that long, then it's not properly thermophilic, and not ideal for humanure. Poore's and Moule's experiments with topsoil sanitation were very interesting, and indeed many millions (billions?) of people have done it that way for a long, long time, but I'd want proper hot composting first - not just for sanitation, also the results are better. Hot composting is quick. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA sulfur
Harmon wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], MH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Keith, Hi Hoagy Thanks for this, nice... Could be quicker, could be hotter too, only 120-130F. Still, that's okay, they're doing good. Makes you think, though, eh? - all that free heat going to waste. Wonder why they don't use it? I don't know. Whadaya suggest. The Mother Earth News used it to warm water in the cooler times of the year if memory serves me. That's not really a good idea though, if you want good compost. Or, rather, you need to decide which is more important, getting some heat from it or getting and thorough and relatively quick compost. Taking heat from the pile can lower temps enough that some of the most important bacteria can't function. In northern climes especially, you're more in need of adding heat to the pile some of the year. Or composting inside, which I tried for the first time last year but it went anerobic. I don't think you should ever need to add heat to a compost pile if it's properly assembled. Minus 15 deg C hasn't slowed my compost down. The process is too fierce for a simple copper coil to make any noticeable difference. Anaerobic = too much moisture/not enough air. Go easy on the water, or don't use any - if it runs out of water you can always break it up, sprinkle more water on it, mix thoroughly and rebuild, but if there's too much water it'll turn into an intractable sludge that's hard to rescue. Adding lots of dry stuff might revive it, if you manage to keep the C:N ratio right (dry stuff usually lacks N). Or it might not. It might seem too dry when you build it at first, but much of the moisture's inside the plant cells and only gets released once the process starts and the cells break down. All that's if you're building it in one go. If you're doing it bit by bit as the wastes become available, you have to balance it bit by bit too. Kitchen wastes, plant wastes generally, are much too moist, you have to add dry stuff at the same time. Using worms can be a lot easier for wastes that come in dribs and drabs. No free heat though. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] titration
Hello Neil Not sure I understand this. Sorry if I'm being dumb. Sunflower I am having some major problems with the titration of my oil. Using digital ph meter Oil/Isopropyl Alcohol mix 6.4 pH6.4 before you started adding the NaOH. !% Caustic soda 10.5 What does this mean? 20ml iso, 2ml oil Doubling up like this makes for more accurate measurement, but it also means you have to divide the result by 2. 1ml CS brings the reading to 6.9 and all is heading right. CS = 0.1% NaOH solution? 2ml of CS takes the reading to 6.85 3ml of CS takes the reading to 6.75 Lost my temper here slightly 12ml of CS took the reading to 6.35 ie below staring value. I've never seen it going down. Sometimes with really high FFA oil it just seems to sit at a particular level for ages as you keep on adding more lye solution, but finally it shifts up and everything's fine. Is this very heavily used sunflower oil? Your iso is pure and new? It can get a bit acid if it's old stuff, and can pick up some moisture too. You can do a sort of dummy titration to check it - titrate without the oil, see what it takes to get it to neutral, then add the oil, proceed as normal and subtract the difference at the end. Same with the lye - new, pure and fresh? You dewatered the oil? Are you using distilled/de-ionized water? Have you calibrated your pH meter? Repeated with Phenolpthalien (sp) took 25 - 30 ml to get a pink colour. So that's proper phenolphthalein then, not Phenol Red. But indeed a titration of 15 ml would be somewhat high. Again, the phenol is fresh and pure? It must be kept away from light. After 2ml the oil drops out of solution and is difficult to get to mix again. and the mixture turns a cloudy white colour. Yes, that happens. You have to keep stirring it. It helps if both the iso-oil mix and the lye solution are somewhat warm, about 30 deg C or so. That might make a difference to your readings unless your pH meter has automatic temperature control, but it won't be a real major difference - standard titration temperature is 25 deg C. By the way, was this the same oil you used before, that I posted pictures of at the list website Files section? General opinion was that you'd used too much NaOH in that batch. Did you titrate it? If not, how much NaOH did you use? All help gratefully accepted as my hair is in clumps on the workshop floor. Sheesh, the guy's still got hair that he can pull out and he's complaining. :-) Best Keith Neil Canberra Australia Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
murdoch wrote: You cited a lot of facts about ethanol but to some extent they were in a jumble. It looks like ethanol's alleged damaging properties to engines are in great dispute. MH wrote: Can you provide documentation to collaborate your opinions ?? Mine where only based on years of personal vehicle experience and the use of various alcohols namely - methanol, isopropyl, ethanol in my internal combustion spark ignition engines fuel systems. Gasoline absorbs very little water to my knowledge thus the necessity for using alcohol particularly when condensation builds up. ` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
MH wrote: murdoch wrote: You cited a lot of facts about ethanol but to some extent they were in a jumble. It looks like ethanol's alleged damaging properties to engines are in great dispute. MH wrote: Can you provide documentation to collaborate your opinions ?? Mine where only based on years of personal vehicle experience and the use of various alcohols namely - methanol, isopropyl, ethanol in my internal combustion spark ignition engines fuel systems. Gasoline absorbs very little water to my knowledge thus the necessity for using alcohol particularly when condensation builds up. MH wrote: Its been years since ive seen one of my carburetor floats becoming saturated - flooding the engine compartment. Some of my black rubber hoses slowly turned to black goo when using a product called HEAT ingredients - methanol. Haven't noticed any changes using isopropyl or ethanol, well lets say no noticeable fuel leaks around the vehicles but then ive replaced parts over the years which may be the reason or no longer using HEAT. Your guess is as good as mine. ` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
methanol + water will even eat aluminum Kirk -Original Message- From: MH [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 1:53 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use MH wrote: murdoch wrote: You cited a lot of facts about ethanol but to some extent they were in a jumble. It looks like ethanol's alleged damaging properties to engines are in great dispute. MH wrote: Can you provide documentation to collaborate your opinions ?? Mine where only based on years of personal vehicle experience and the use of various alcohols namely - methanol, isopropyl, ethanol in my internal combustion spark ignition engines fuel systems. Gasoline absorbs very little water to my knowledge thus the necessity for using alcohol particularly when condensation builds up. MH wrote: Its been years since ive seen one of my carburetor floats becoming saturated - flooding the engine compartment. Some of my black rubber hoses slowly turned to black goo when using a product called HEAT ingredients - methanol. Haven't noticed any changes using isopropyl or ethanol, well lets say no noticeable fuel leaks around the vehicles but then ive replaced parts over the years which may be the reason or no longer using HEAT. Your guess is as good as mine. ` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.371 / Virus Database: 206 - Release Date: 6/13/2002 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Farmers Turn To Composting, Georgia, USA sulfur
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Harmon I should mention too that the guy at MREA, whose been composting humanure for decades, said turning is a bad idea, it loses heat, and, for humanure you want as much heat as possible. He also said let it go a year, make the piles big (pallet size), and just build another pile when the first if full, rather than trying to hurry it along. Obviously that doesn't work for apartment dwellers. 8-) Turning doesn't lose heat, you only turn it once it's cooled anyway. It may or may not be necessary - read Will Brinton's study that I posted previously: Sustainability of Modern Composting: Intensification Versus Costs Quality: http://www.woodsend.org/sustain.pdf A lot of people turn it quite often -- thus the rotating barrel compost makers you see. He was saying that you'll lose the optimum heat if you do that. As for time length, he was talking about the whole sequence. Start the pile with some straw or leaves or hay on a pallet to allow air under it, add your daily bucket of crap, cover that with straw, it will take at least six months to fill the heap (pallets for sides, right?), depending upon the size of your family, maybe even a year. This is just a pile for dealing with humanure, not your main garden compost pile, as a lot of people aren't going to want to put it on the veggie crops. The Gromor guys seemed to be doing frequent turning and watering to keep the heat down, but that's not at all necessary, IMO, and Brinton's, and it may be counter-productive. Which is not to say it won't work anyway. I don't think humanure needs any more heat than any other kind of composting. http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howardAT/ATapp3.html An Agricultural Testament - Albert Howard - Appendix C The Manufacture of Humus from the Wastes of the Town and the Village Van Vuren's pioneering work in South Africa confirms this, along with Wylie's in England, and Gotaas's work all over the place (not online yet). My own work in England also confirmed it. It's just thermophilic composting like any other. C:N ratio, moisture content, aeration apply the same as with any other materials. It'll go well above 65 deg C and stay there awhile, finished in a few weeks, cure it a few more, and that's it. That's not hurrying it along, that's just how it works. No need to leave it for a year, it won't accomplish anything, and unless you store it well it will lose quality in that time. If the actual composting process is taking that long, then it's not properly thermophilic, and not ideal for humanure. Poore's and Moule's experiments with topsoil sanitation were very interesting, and indeed many millions (billions?) of people have done it that way for a long, long time, but I'd want proper hot composting first - not just for sanitation, also the results are better. Hot composting is quick. Yes, if you have a lot, but for individuals or small families it's just not going to work that way, the pile won't be big enough. I know, I've tried it in WI, it froze solid in the winter. I think his point was pretty good advice -- you aren't going to get enough compost to really matter from your own feces, and it isn't really worth the risk of continuing parasite, viral, or bacterial infection to use the little bit you get on veggies, especially root crops. It's primarily a good way to stop wasting all the water you flush everytime you go. And it's great for the flowers. On a large scale, that's different, although with municipal sludge you've got serious problems with heavy metals, so I sure wouldn't put that on my land. Best use for that is gasification. Regards Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use
Murdoch, When are you going to set up an investment fund for manufacturing biofuels? Craig - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mid-California Ethanol use Thanks to several different posters for putting up these various cumulatively informative explanations. For example with Craig's information I was able to see that there are both pros and cons that seem to come from a sort of dosage of ethanol, in terms of engine-cleaning. It may seem to a real enemy of the fuel that one can conclude that it's just a disaster, but in fact there's another side to the matter. That's the sort of thing that has always left me a bit wary of accepting any one simple explanation: proponents seem to sometimes not even acknowledge any drawbacks at all (such as what seems to be the temporarily worse performance in Craig's description) and detractors seem to take any temporary or condition-based drawbacks on performance as an excuse to dismiss the technology out-of-hand (a classic sign, in my opinion, that they lack a commitment to an objective evaluation of the technology). Practical Use of Ethanol 1. It is unlikely that the ethanol has been watered down. It is absorbing the water in storage and from your tank. It will take at least 3 to 4 full tanks full to get the water out. Get a bottle of ' Heet ' (it is made to remove water from gas tanks to keep gas lines from freezing ), this might help. Greg H. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ztNCyD/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
