from:"Fred"

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071005/e2d87674/attachment.html 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Greenspan's Dark Legacy Unmasked

Already the top 1% owns 40% of global assets; the top 10% 85% of
them; the top 1% in the US controls one-third of the nation's wealth;
the bottom 80% just
15.3%; and the top 20% 84.7%. In contrast, the poorest 20% are in
debt, owe more than they own, and it's getting worse.


So it's actually worse than we have been lead to believe?


From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Greenspan's Dark Legacy Unmasked
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 13:18:12 +0900

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18486.htm

Greenspan's Dark Legacy Unmasked

By Stephen Lendman

10/01/07 ICH -- -- After retiring as the Federal Reserve's second
longest ever serving chairman, Alan Greenspan is now cashing in big
late in life at age 81. He chaired the Fed's Board of Governors from
the time he was appointed in August, 1987 to when he stepped down
January 31, 2006 amidst a hail of ill-deserved praise for his
stewardship during good and perilous times. USA Today noted the
onetime jazz band musician went out on a high note. The Wall Street
Journal said his economic legacy (rests on results) and seems
secure. The Washington Post cited his nearly mythical status.

Stanford Washington Research Group chief strategist Greg Valliere
called him a giant, and Bob Woodward called him Maestro in his
cloying hagiography (now priced $1.99 used on Alibris and $2.19 on
Amazon) that was published in 2000 as the Greenspan-built house of
cards was collapsing. The book was an adoring tribute to a man he
called a symbol of American economic preeminence, who the Financial
Times also praised as An Activist Unafraid to Depart From the Rule
- by taking from the public and giving to the rich.

Others joined the chorus, too, lauding his steady, disciplined hand
on the monetary steering wheel, his success keeping inflation and
unemployment low, and his having represented the embodiment of
prosperity in compiling a record of achievement his successor will be
hard-pressed to match.

In 2004, William Greider in The Nation magazine had a different view.
He's the author of Secrets of the Temple on how the Federal
Reserve runs the country. He wrote Greenspan ranks among the most
duplicitous figures to serve in modern American government (who used)
his exalted status as economic wizard (to) regularly corrupt the
political dialogue by sowing outrageously false impressions among
gullible members of Congress and adoring financial reporters.

They were front and center in the New York Times for the man who
steer(ed) the economy through multiple calamities and
ultimatelyone of the longest economic booms in history(He
earned his bona fides) weather(ing) the Black Monday stock crash of
1987 (and in 18 and a half years in office) achieved more celebrity
than most rock stars and may now approach them in earnings.

The new book of his memoirs The Age of Turbulence is just out for
which his reported advance exceeded $8.5 million (second only to Bill
Clinton's $10 for his memoirs) plus additional royalties if sales
exceed 1.9 million copies. They may given the amount of high-impact
publicity it and he are getting nonstop. And that's not all. He's in
great demand on the lecture circuit at six figure fees, has his own
consulting firm, Greenspan Associates LLC, and his lawyer, Robert
Barnett says virtually every major investment-banking firm in the
world wants to hire him for his rainmaking connections.

They have value, not his market advice, best avoided for the man who
engineered the largest ever stock market bubble and bust in history
through incompetence, timidity, dereliction of duty, and subservience
to the capital interests he represented at the expense of the greater
good and a sustained sound economy he didn't worry about nor did Wall
Street.

For firms on the Street and big banks, he could do no wrong and was
above reproach for letting them cash in big and then get plenty of
advance warning when to exit. Most ordinary investors weren't so
fortunate. They're not insiders and were caught flat-footed by advice
from market pundit fraudsters and the most influential one of all in
the Fed Chairman. Just weeks before the market peak in January, 2000,
he claimed the American economy was experiencing a once-in-a-century
acceleration of innovation, which propelled forward productivity,
output, corporate profits and stock prices at a pace not seen in
generations, if ever.

It was hype and nonsense and on a par with famed economist and
professor Irving Fisher's remarks just before the 1929 stock market
crash and Great Depression when he claimed economic fundamentals in
the country were strong, stocks undervalued, and an unending period
of prosperity lay ahead. It took a world war a decade later, not
market magic, for them to arrive, but before it did Fisher kept
insisting in the early 1930s recovery was just around the corner.
It's the same way Wall Street touts operate today

Re: [Biofuel] Ahmadinejad blames certain big powers for the plight of a large share of humanity

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071005/96fe414e/attachment.html 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Ahmadinejad blames certain big powers for the plight of a large share of humanity

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071005/c14086c2/attachment.html 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Ahmadinejad blames certain big powers for the plight of a large share of humanity

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071005/2e918275/attachment.html 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Analysts See 'Simply Incredible' Shrinking of Floating Ice in the Arctic

2007-08-13 Thread Fred Oliff


Might I bring to the group's attention a four-part feature on NBC this week on the Katie Couric "show". An NBC reporter was aboard the Canadian icebreaker "pride of the fleet" Louis S. St. Laurent as it plied Canada's Northwest Passage. Starts at 1830 EDT. Try to tune in, I will. Starts tonight, ends Saturday night.




From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Analysts See 'Simply Incredible' Shrinking of Floating Ice in the ArcticDate:Tue, 14 Aug 2007 03:41:52 +0900http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/10/3105/- CommonDreams.orgPublished on Friday, August 10, 2007 by The New York TimesAnalysts See 'Simply Incredible' Shrinking of Floating Ice in the Arcticby Andrew C. RevkinThe area of floating ice in the Arctic has shrunk more this summerthan in any other summer since satellite tracking began in 1979, andit has reached that record point a month before the annual icepullback typically peaks, 
experts said yesterday.The cause is probably a mix of natural fluctuations, like unusuallysunny conditions in June and July, and long-term warming fromheat-trapping greenhouse gases and sooty particles accumulating inthe air, according to several scientists.William L. Chapman, who monitors the region at the University ofIllinois Urbana-Champaign and posted a Web report on the ice retreatyesterday, said that only an abrupt change in conditions couldprevent far more melting before the 24-hour sun of the boreal summerset in September. "The melting rate during June and July this yearwas simply incredible," Mr. Chapman said. "And then you've got thisexposed black ocean soaking up sunlight and you wonder what, ifanything, could cause it to reverse course."Mark 
Serreze, a sea-ice expert at the National Snow and Ice DataCenter in Boulder, Colo., said his center's estimates differedsomewhat from those of the Illinois team, and by the ice center'sreckoning the retreat had not surpassed the satellite-era record setin 2005. But it was close even by the center's calculations, he said,adding that it is almost certain that by September, there will bemore open water in the Arctic than has been seen for a long time. Iceexperts at NASA and the University of Washington echoed hisassessment.Dr. Serreze said that a high-pressure system parked over the Arcticappeared to have caused a "triple whammy" - keeping away clouds,causing winds to carry warm air north and pushing sea ice away fromSiberia, exposing huge areas of open water.The 
progressive summertime opening of the Arctic has intensified alongstanding international tug of war over shipping routes andpossible oil and gas deposits beneath the Arctic Ocean seabed.Last week, Russians planted a flag on the seabed at the North Pole.On Wednesday, Stephen Harper, the Canadian prime minister, began atour of Canada's Arctic holdings, pledging "to vigorously protect ourArctic sovereignty as international interest in the region increases."© 2007 The New York Times___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel 
and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] International Biodiesel Day

2007-08-10 Thread Fred Oliff




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor question

2007-07-10 Thread Fred Oliff


Mike,
Most boats come with a certification plate somewhere on the inside of the transom with a rating for the size of engine. No reason why a 15HP motor couldn't power a tin or fibreglasboat up to about 18 feet so long as you do not overloiad it.
Good luck with it. I would try to get as many "expert" opinions as possible re the use of ethanol as engines can be the most expensive part of your boating experience. Oh, and don't forget your charts (sorry for the shameless plug!)
Fred




From:"Mike Weaver" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgCC:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor questionDate:Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:19:11 -0500 (CDT)Second question:what size boat would it drive?Flat water mostly for fishing.Slow riverwith medium current.  Yeah yeah, and most diesel mechanics are in full agreement that  biodiesel will destroy diesel engines too...   Z   On 7/9/07, Fred Oliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Having read some 
publications at marinas I have been at this summer, the  manufacturers are issuing dire warnings about the use of ethanol. They  are  in full agreement against its use.      From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.org  To:biofuel@sustainablelists.org  Subject:[Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor question  Date:Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:03:43 -0500  Anyone know anything about outboard motors?And boats?And whether  aarniong  15 HP 4 stroke Mercury would run on ethanol?   
 -Weaver___  Biofuel mailing list  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000  messages):  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___  Biofuel mailing list  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org  
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org   Biofuel at Journey to Forever:  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html   Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000  messages):  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/   --  Zeke Yewdall  Chief Electrical Engineer  Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company  Cell: 720.352.2508  Office: 303.459.0177  FAX documents to: 720.269.1240  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www.cosunflower.com   CoSEIA Certified  Certified BP Solar Installer  National 
Association of Home Builders   Quotable Quote   "In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,  in the dead of winter, war spreading,  families dying, the world in danger,  I walk the rocky hillside  sowing clover."   Wendell Berry   ___  Biofuel mailing list  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org   Biofuel at Journey to Forever:  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html   Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000  messages):  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor question

2007-07-09 Thread Fred Oliff


Having read somepublications at marinas I have been at this summer, the manufacturers are issuing dire warnings about the use of ethanol. They are in full agreement against its use.




From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor questionDate:Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:03:43 -0500Anyone know anything about outboard motors?And boats?And whether aarniong15 HP 4 stroke Mercury would run on ethanol?-Weaver___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor question

2007-07-09 Thread Fred Oliff

I hear you. So what you're saying is go ahead?  User beware?  There might be 
a reason ethanol is so widely available.  Are there any users out there who 
can claim no long term damage from prolonged use of ethanol in small marine 
applications?  Anyone willing to be a guinea pig for the experiment? Hands 
up.

From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor question
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:48:34 -0600

Yeah yeah, and most diesel mechanics are in full agreement that
biodiesel will destroy diesel engines too...

Z

On 7/9/07, Fred Oliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Having read some publications at marinas I have been at this summer, the
  manufacturers are issuing dire warnings about the use of ethanol. They 
are
  in full agreement against its use.

  From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reply-To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  To:  biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Subject:  [Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor question
  Date:  Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:03:43 -0500
  Anyone know anything about outboard motors?  And boats?  And whether
  aarniong
  15 HP 4 stroke Mercury would run on ethanol?

  -Weaver

  ___
  Biofuel mailing list
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
  messages):
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  ___
  Biofuel mailing list
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
  messages):
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

--
Zeke Yewdall
Chief Electrical Engineer
Sunflower Solar, A NewPoint Energy Company
Cell: 720.352.2508
Office: 303.459.0177
FAX documents to: 720.269.1240
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cosunflower.com

CoSEIA Certified
Certified BP Solar Installer
National Association of Home Builders

Quotable Quote

In the dark of the moon, in flying snow,
in the dead of winter, war spreading,
families dying, the world in danger,
I walk the rocky hillside
sowing clover.

Wendell Berry

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor question

2007-07-09 Thread Fred Oliff


http://www.nmma.org/lib/docs/nmma/gr/environmental/Failure_Mode_and_Effects_Analysis.pdf




From:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Totally off topic - Outboard motor questionDate:Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:03:43 -0500Anyone know anything about outboard motors?And boats?And whether a15 HP 4 stroke Mercury would run on ethanol?-Weaver___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] license to carry used veg oil

2007-06-26 Thread Fred Oliff


face it boys, BIG OIL IS behind all of this. same thing happens with micro-breweries when they start to cut into the bottom line. "we CANNOT afford for someone to save thousands from our BILLIONS". screw 'em, take all you want, don't declare it to anybody. put it in canola oil containers, tell them you have an eating disorder/ addiction to 'freedom fries'.




From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] license to carry used veg oilDate:Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:47:29 +0900Hello James The state and FedGov.Inc are making incredible sums due the current price of petrol via taxes.I'm not surprised that indirect fees and fines are now being imposed on the everyday biodiesel, SVO and WVO crowd.I'm sure more draconian measures are in the works. FedGov.Inc never saw a tax it did not like.How dare everyday citizens take the bull by the horns and declare their energy independence!!  
More bad news. I met a gent atthe "Clean Air Expo" in Phx a few weeks ago.He was driving a Carl's Jr. WVO Cummings diesel.There were two other smaller franchises in hisassociation that were planning to turn their WVO into biodiesel for sale at their gas station / restaurants locations in CA and AZ.  My suggestion is to get contracts for your WVO supplies now.The days of free WVO are coming to an end.We've been hearing that for seven years now or more. On the otherhand, it still seems that nobody, feds or whatever, even knows howmuch of the stuff there is yet - is it estimated at 3 billion gallonsa year these days or 4 billion? And is maybe 10% still beingcollected or has it gone 
rocketing up to 11% yet?Anyway, waste collection and recycling turns out to be a local nicheaffair if you're going to push it up much higher than 10% - you haveto go to the source, which in this case includes many small localoutlets and just about everybody's home. Not something that BigCentral excels at.Biodiesel, SVO and WVO aren't even really regarded as an energy issuein the US yet, still an agricultural issue (handouts for Big Soy). That's the main reason I am doing Jatropha cultivation experiments.LOL!Sorry, I don't think the "best crop" approach will help a lot,especially not when it turns out to be jatropha.JatrophaYields claimed: 1590-2,350 kg oil/ha, 202-298 US gal/acreYields achieved (India): 300-400 kg oil/ha, 
38-51 US gal/acre"Nobody in India has ever obtained more than 300 to 400 kg of oil perha from Jatropha." - Dr. A.D. Karve, president of the AppropriateRural Technology Institute (ARTI) in Maharashtra, India.About the same as soy. If you can get the seed out of the fruit, andthe oil out of the seed, that is, and find something useful to dowith the toxic seedcake other than the "excellent organic fertiliser"bit.BestKeith Best of Luck, JQ  Daymi Henegar wrote:  Hello! I am from California.Have been making biodiesel for several months, and loving it.Only problem is that in order to obtain a license to carry used veggie oil (any amount), 
from restaurants, you have to spend $175 for the actual license (not bad); but in order to get the license you must show proof of insurance on a commercial vehicle with $1,000,000 minimum liability!This becomes pricey.Does anyone have any ideas of how to get around this?Perhaps an AG license, since they are allowed to carry 100 gallons of diesel on the back of their trucks.It seems a bit ridiculous to me.Thanks___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to 
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] 'What the World Eats'!

2007-06-20 Thread Fred Oliff


is this what they truly mean by "conspicuous consumption"?




From:doug swanson [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] 'What the World Eats'!Date:Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:10:56 -0400A friend the other day was commenting on the size of Americans, (US) andI made a statement that it is a sign of malnutrition, to which heexpressed disbelief, until I offered my opinion.People who get verylittle of the nutrition that the body needs, vitamins, enzymes and traceminerals will find their bodies craving more food in an attempt toacquire these nutrients.Since the American food supply in general isso depleted of true nutrition, people here eat and eat, trying to gettheir daily needs, 
and, never getting them, will instead consume thecalories that make the body large, but never quite healthy.In these reports that Kirk posted, it seems that wealthier countriesfeed their population with food in boxes and bottles, pretty packaging,but very little nutrition.The foods consumed in poorer householdsappear to have a closer route back to the soil they were grown in, hencea higher level in nutrients.doug swansonKirk McLoren wrote: There are two different really good links for this with different  info at  each site:   http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5005952 
  http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1626519,00.html  Need Mail bonding?  Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA  http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396546091  for great tips from Yahoo! Answers  http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396546091  users.     ___  
Biofuel mailing list  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org  http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org   Biofuel at Journey to Forever:  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html   Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/  --Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *All generalizations are false.Including this one.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource 
Software.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations

2007-05-29 Thread Fred Oliff

Joe et al,

How easy/difficult is it to import some of these diesel vans into Canada? After that, how easy/difficult to import into the US. Could someone make a business of it? Will it be made any easier next year when the floodgates open for diesels?

Fred


From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van RecommendationsDate: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:22:40 -0400
Hi Ray;Sorry for the delay. Try this forum for more information on Delicas.http://delica.ca/forum/index.phpJoeraymond greeley wrote:


I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able to openray


Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van RecommendationsLook for a mitsubishi delica. A buddy of mine just imported one with low miles from Japan. He loves it.JoeLuke Kareklas wrote:




Hello All,Iam a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, Magician, and"Balloon Guy."I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this is a helpful bitof information.

Lately my entertainment businesshas gotten really busy and it'scome time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. 
I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a "minivan" type of vehicle. Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have togo buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, right? Thank you very much. Luke

Luke KareklasLuke the Juggler614-764-8010www.LuketheJuggler.com
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  

Change is good. See whats different about Windows Live Hotmail. Check it out! 
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

  
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The new rules of imperialism: Economic warfare, consumer products and disease exports

2007-05-29 Thread Fred Oliff


prety dire stuff Kirk, but will it be missed? The last days of America as we know it. is there any real possibility of it becoming reborn as something resembling anything other than a shadow of itself?




From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] The new rules of imperialism: Economic warfare,consumer products and disease exportsDate:Tue, 29 May 2007 15:07:11 -0700 (PDT)

http://www.newstarget.com/021873.html

The new rules of imperialism: Economic warfare, consumer products and disease exports


History tells us that imperialist nations quite predictably invade weaker nations on a regular basis... especially when those weaker nations happen to be standing on valuable natural resources like oil or uranium. Thanks to this desire for strategic control over territories, the twentieth century was the bloodiest in human history, with more people being lost to war, greed and conquest than during any single century in recorded history (including the centuries spanning Greek and Roman civilizations).War remains as supported as ever today, and in fact, many nations actually thirst for war. Just look at the pro-war coverage on Fox News and the unending war games being played on computers and game consoles by young men who find entertainment in war. (In fact, the U.S. Army is actually recruiting young men now through a free, downloadable video game that teaches young boys how to pick up a rifle and kill people with it.)

Why some nations create war
The people of some nations actually create war (or support it) in their quest to express a sense of nationalistic heroism. Failing nations need heroes, and when those heroes are no longer found in the realms of science, art, politics or global achievement, they will be fabricated from the false victories of war.The tearful American mom whose son dies in Iraq is, indeed, suffering a tremendous personal loss, but her loss is a necessary part of feeding the population's desire to proclaim there are heroes among them. Through the sacrificing of young men who are killed in Iraq, the people of America can find common connection, righteousness, and purpose where none existed before. War gives meaning to empty lives, and it delivers a masochistic form of entertainment to those who are too young, too old or too wealthy to participate. This is precisely why, throughout human 
history, the leaders of failing nations have habitually turned to military imperialism as a method to distract the people from far more serious problems at home. When the sons of a nation are returning home in body bags, nobody pays much attention to failures in education or the economy.This is not to say that there are not some instances in which going to war has genuine justification. When a nation is threatened by an invading force, for example, going to war to defend your own land against invading aggressors is not only necessary, it is also truly heroic. Defending your own land is courageous; invading your neighbor's land is cowardly. (Some people claim, by the way, that the only way to protect America's land is to invade other countries first. This concept, called "preemptive war" is based
on mass distortions used to falsely justify actions of war.)In America today, the thirst for war remains as strong as ever. But the real war being waged on the world right now by America is not merely found in the limited military action in the Middle East. That's only the blunt instrument of this war. The real American invasion is happening through foods, medicines, personal care products, international banking and intellectual property law. Through the proliferation of fast food restaurants, pharmaceutical companies, chemically-contaminated consumer products and similar items invented in America, the world is being bombarded by systems of food, medicine and distorted intellectual property claims that are producing far more casualties than any bombs-and-bullets war.

How to control a nation
In World War II, the Germans attempted to steal natural resources from neighboring nations by forcefully occupying and controlling the targeted territories. Today, war is far more sophisticated: America steals national resources by patenting seeds, genes, medicines and ideas, then applying economic and political pressure against targeted nations to forcefully take a cut of their productivity through the application of intellectual property law. Only Thailand has offered any sort of resistance in an attempt to protect its people from the predatory, monopolistic drug pricing of Big Pharma, for example, but most countries just go right along and pay tribute to the western world through outrageous patent royalties on medicines that should belong to the people.If that's not enough to dominate the targeted nation's economy, America sends in the World Bank. The World 
Bank makes predatory loans to desperate nations, knowing full well they cannot pay

Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: [MCS-Canada] Fluoride can kill...................

2007-05-26 Thread Fred Oliff

Thanks Kirk, we are the guinea pigs (aka rats) in the largest chemico/pharmaceutico/poison experiment ever known to man. Ever see The Constant Gardener? It pales in scale to the tests being conducted on us without our permission.What to do?
...and the beat goes on...

From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Fwd: [MCS-Canada] Fluoride can kill...Date:Sat, 26 May 2007 08:44:58 -0700 (PDT)

Fluoride can kill. Prepare yourself for the tragic fable of the chemist, the water board, the dentist and his life.By George GlasserThe Ecologist, September, 2Once, there was a dentist. His name was Lester. For many years, like all the other dentists he knew, Lester believed that fluoride in the drinking water was good for everyone. Like all the other dentists, Lester had learnt in dental school that fluoride reduces tooth decay. And, like all the other dentists, Lester believed that fluoride was fluoride.Then, one day, he met a chemist and began discussing drinking water fluoridation. The chemist asked what kind of fluoride was being used to fluoridate the drinking water. Lester replied: "We are simply adjusting the fluoride level in the water by adding one part per million of, well, just
fluoride."There is no such thing as "just fluoride", said the chemist. Lester scratched his head. But they told me that it was only fluoride they are adding to the water.The chemist laughed heartily. "Fluorine is the most reactive, electronegative element and it's never found alone in nature," he said. "There are many kinds of fluorides: for instance, calcium fluoride is found naturally in water. Then there are other fluorides such as lead fluoride, aluminium fluoride, etc. If you add fluoride to the water it has to be a compound. You can't just add fluoride to the water, so which one is it?"Lester felt silly. He didn't know. The next day Lester went to the library to check the chemistry books and learnt that calcium fluoride is, indeed, found naturally in the water. He also discovered that calcium fluoride is almost insoluble and could
not be easily absorbed by the body. And his friend the chemist was quite right - there were innumerable fluoride compounds. Now intrigued, Lester looked up some scientific studies about water fluoridation. He read that in laboratory tests, workers use a very pure grade of sodium fluoride and purified water to do their research. He discovered that sodium fluoride is taken up by the body much more readily than calcium fluoride. His friend was right. The dentist wondered how anyone could say that calcium fluoride is the same as sodium fluoride. The next day, Lester called his water department to ask if they were adding sodium fluoride or calcium fluoride to his drinking water. The Water Department (WD) manager said that they were adding a product called silicofluorides to the water. The WD manager said they bought a very low grade product because it would be too expensive to use a good grade and, anyway, the public health people would
not pay for a good quality calcium fluoride, because, they said, fluoride is fluoride, no matter where it comes from. By now, Lester was completely bewildered. "Where do you buy these silicofluorides from?" he asked. The WD manager said that the silicofluorides known as hexafluorosilicic acid are the toxic waste product from phosphate fertilizer pollution scrubbers. The dentist was aghast. "You have to be crazy putting that stuff in the water!"The water department manager agreed because, he said, the hexafluorsilicic acid also contains other toxic substances such as arsenic, beryllium, mercury, lead and many more. He said he didn't drink the city water because many of the contaminants in the fluoridation agent cause health problems. "For instance," he said, "arsenic causes prostate, bladder, kidney, skin and lung cancers and there is no safe level for arsenic."Lester was appalled. He asked the manager why he did not stop
fluoridating the water with this pollution scrubber liquor. "And why would anyone add any amount of a known carcinogen to the water?"Shrugging, the manager replied, "I'm just doing my job. The public health people have their agenda, and I have a family to feed." After a sleepless night, Lester contemplated the fluoridation dilemma as he soaped himself in the shower. "They say they are simply adjusting the level of natural fluoride in the water which is calcium fluoride, but they are using a pure grade of sodium fluoride and very pure water for the rat experiments in the laboratory. But they are adding toxic pollution scrubber liquor to my drinking water!" It didn't make sense. He called a man at the dental association and told him what he had learnt. The man said, coldly: "If you value your licence to practise, don't ever mention this subject again!" Lester was shocked. He had worked hard and was very proud
of his practice and his two classic

Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: US Gasoline Prices Hit All Time Historical Highest Level - Adjusted For Inflation

2007-05-22 Thread Fred Oliff

Mike,
Put this on a 2008 US Presidential campaign poster: Get Smart and the candidate's picture with the SMART car. Looked in the window of one yesterday as I was filling up with B50 and there is room in there for lots of stuff. Problem is a major lifestyle shift and doing well with less. The SUVs provide the conspicuous consumption unfortunately the SMART car doesn't, to them at least. Fools and their money are apparently still easily parted.
My 2 cents, not indexed for inflation.
Fred

From:Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: US Gasoline Prices Hit All Time Historical Highest Level - Adjusted For InflationDate:Mon, 21 May 2007 15:28:29 -0600Still, this morning as I went into the city in my relatively small VWBiodiesel Golf, I saw hundreds of single occupant SUVspass me.Why don't we have smart cars in the US?I don't even need aVW most of the time.All I need to carry is a few computers and atools.Keith Addison wrote: If you put a bit more effort into it I'm sure you can hit $10 a gallon soon.
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg69797.html Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Gas Station Owner Told to Raise Prices Best Keith US Gasoline Prices Hit All Time Historical Highest Level - Adjusted For Inflation US average, self-serve, unleaded regular hits $3.18 This is a point we have been dreading. Before this, the all time highest US average gasoline (regular) price was during 1981 (March IIRC). Adjusted for inflation, we finally topped it, and appear to be still climbing at a steady pace. It was announced on the news yesterday (Sunday) on PBS. CNN
verifies it, today: http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/21/news/economy/record_gas_monday/ Here is a webpage, anticipating it, but not being able to anticipate what the number would be, or when it would get reached: http://www.answers.com/topic/oil-price-increases-of-2004-2006 We got close in 2006 http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2006/07/gas_prices_allt.html We got closer, earlier this month: http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=21867 http://zfacts.com/p/35.html This website that was set up to say "gasoline is cheap" now shows that today it has gotten expensive, by their standards.
http://www.nationalreview.com/moore/moore082803chart.asp http://infohost.nmt.edu/~armiller/gasprices.htm This one will give you an idea of the kind of misleading verse that we were being fed by Washington, and that some propagandists still spout, even in the face of reality. http://www.cted.wa.gov/energy/archive/Indicators99/Indicator24.htm Here is a radical, George Will, trying to make fun of the concern about gasoline prices, just last month. However, since then, the pump price has gone up 18% (since last month) and is now at the highest price in history, both in actual dollars, and also in inflation adjusted dollars.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR200 7040402251.html http://jalopnik.com/cars/gas-prices/never-mind-the-4-per-gallon-heres -the-summer-road-trips-61124.php This one would be funny, if it weren't so sad: from last month: Quote: "says Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst for the Oil Price Information Service, an energy consulting firm. "The reality is that we're nearing the highs of the year, and within 30 days there will be more gasoline on the market The article was dated 4/25/2007, twenty six days ago, and the quote was from before that. Those prices better drop fast. Instead they have climbed about 15%. Here is an other quote from the deceptive "experts:" "The
most recent Energy Dept. forecast, released Apr.10, predicted retail regular gasoline prices would average $2.81 per gallon in the summer of 2007 (April-September)." We are already nearly 40% through that time, and prices are still climbing. Here is another one: ""We expect to see prices flatten around where they are now," says Douglas MacIntyre, senior oil analyst for the f ederal Energy Information Administration, part of the DOE. "More refinery outages and higher crude prices could push it to $3 Since then the price has climbed about 18%, to $3.18, the highest price in history. More: "experts say consumers are actually getting a bargain at the pump, as prices are still lower than in the early 1980s, adjusted for
inflation." Since then the price has climbed about 18%, to $3.18, the highest pump price in history. Another: "On a national average, gasoline prices actually decreased for the week of Apr. 23, falling 0.7 to $2.87 per gallon" http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20070426/bs_bw/apr2007db20070426139334Since then the price has climbed 11%, to $3.18, the highest price in history. Also the old record year 1981 only averaged $2.64 (adjusted to 2006 dollars) while 2006 averaged $2.81, and this year is looking to set a new record average, not just the highest price records. . http://www.s

Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Gas Station Owner Told to Raise Prices

2007-05-10 Thread Fred Oliff

Hello Joe,
is there not also a Jeep Commander? as in Commander-in-Chief?


From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Gas Station Owner Told to Raise PricesDate: Thu, 10 May 2007 11:07:42 -0400
SUV's are a laugh.(or else I'd cry) The other day as I was walking home from work I noticed a shiny black new looking SUV parked up the street. I think it was a jeep brand and in big letters emblazoned on the rear bumper was the word PATRIOT. I had a good belly laugh as I walked by it lstening to some music by Dream Theater about stem cell research and I thought, yeah it is your patriotic duty to drive an inefficient vehicle in amerika isn't it. LOL.Support Bushcobe a patriot, drive a Patriot.JoeKirk McLoren wrote:

The Wellingtons are scary. Narcisstic and psychotic. How anyone could be that out of touch and yet pass for functioning. But they are in my neighborhood too.
I get the impression they have the intellectual perception of a 6 year old and that isnt fair to a lot of 6 year olds.
Hate to be seen in something not new. And there are children going to bed hungry.
Disgusting toads.

KirkMike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm surprised at you, Keith. You're not very sympathetic.SUV OWNERS PUZZLED BY HIGH GAS PRICESby Ben Radstein, staff reporterBefore the war in Iraq began, SUV owners were polled about their attitudes toward the upcoming conflict, and by a very wide margin, they supported the idea. They all seemed to believe that the war would lower oil prices, and make fueling their gas guzzling behemoths cheap. Now many are expressing dismay that this has not occurred. I spoke again to William and Susan Wellington, who expressed confusion about the current situation."I used to see bumper stickers and tee shirts that said kick their ass, take their gas." said Mr. Wellington, "We have done the first part of that, why not the rest? Iraq has the world's second largest 
oil reserve, and now we control it, but gas costs more now than it did before the war. It is already over two dollars a gallon, and I need premium!""We were going to buy a new SUV once the Escalade is eighteen months old, and loses that new feeling," added Mrs. Wellington "but now I don't know. I hate having to be seen in anything old. If I didn't know better, I might think that young chap I saw on the University campus talking about peak oil wasn't crazy."For those who don't know, peak oil is the theory that the world's oil supply can be represented as a bell curve. The first half of it will be easy to extract, and therefore cheap. The second half would be increasingly difficult to remove from the ground, and increasingly expensive. Depending upon whom you believe, the result of this could be mere inconvenience, prolonged 
recession, or war, famine, pestilence and death.I asked the Wellingtons to consider whether peak oil was a valid theory, and if we had hit it. Susan nodded no, and William bellowed. "That's a bunch of vegan tree-hugger doom-saying nonsense! Where did you get that idea, Al Gore? Are you trying to cause panic? Why do you liberals hate America? We will have oil for centuries to come if we just look for it. We have heard this nonsense since the 1970s. It was not true then, and it's not true now. I don't know exactly why gas prices are so high, but I would wager my last dollar that it is Bill Clinton's fault. After all, it was he who drove Rush Limbaugh to drugs, and he should accept responsibility for that"The Wellingtons would not talk to me any further after that. I wonder how long big SUVs will keep selling with gas at these 
prices. Will they still say that fuel-efficient cars are only for tree-huggers in a year? One thing is for certain. People who depend on cheap oil don't want to talk about peak oil.Keith Addison wrote:Different point I know, but US gasoline prices are currently $2.87 to $3.37 a (US) gallon, very cheap!Weekly Retail Premium Gasoline Prices (Including Taxes)Date 4/30/07 (U.S. Dollars per Gallon)Belgium 6.80France 6.71Germany 7.09Italy 6.68Netherlands 7.77UK 7.07US 3.18Another source:pence/litreAustria 75Belguim 95Czech Rep 71.5Denmark 92.2Eire 74.5Finland 89.4France 85.2Germany 90Greece 65.7Netherlands 100.3Hungary 83.5Italy 
87.2Luxembourg 76.5Norway 94.8Poland 79.5Portugal 85.8Spain 66.4Sweden 82.1Switzerland 72.1United Kingdom(Av) 96.5USA 37.5Gasoline in the US costs half or less what it costs in other industrialised countries.Much too cheap, $10 would be better, make it soon.BestKeith Like evey freakin law, special cases are not accounted for. Consequently, laws are made to be broken. Bhandari needs to show the copy of his letter from the Wisconsin Dept of Ag to customers, make a big stink out of this. Get folks to beat their state reps over the head. Could be a great marketing tool for Bhandari, help him get free publicity, maybe even spread the idea to 
other stations. This guy has been presented a gift horse.

Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Gas Station Owner Told to Raise Prices

2007-05-10 Thread Fred Oliff

apparently they do not run so well if the owner is not smart enough not to put gasoline in it. yes I saw it.

From:Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Gas Station Owner Told to Raise PricesDate:Thu, 10 May 2007 11:28:14 -0600Biodiesel Smart CarJoe Street wrote: SUV's are a laugh.(or else I'd cry)The other day as I was walking home from work I noticed a shiny black new looking SUV parked up the street.I think it was a jeep brand and in big letters emblazoned on the rear bumper was the word PATRIOT.I had a good belly laugh as I walked by it lstening to some music by Dream Theater about stem cell research and I thought, yeah it is your
patriotic duty to drive an inefficient vehicle in amerika isn't it.LOL. Support Bushcobe a patriot, drive a Patriot. Joe Kirk McLoren wrote: The Wellingtons are scary. Narcisstic and psychotic. How anyone could be that out of touch and yet pass for functioning. But they are in my neighborhood too. I get the impression they have the intellectual perception of a 6 year old and that isnt fair to a lot of 6 year olds. Hate to be seen in something not new. And there are children going to bed hungry. Disgusting toads. Kirk */Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
I'm surprised at you, Keith. You're not very sympathetic.SUV OWNERS PUZZLED BY HIGH GAS PRICESby Ben Radstein, staff reporter Before the war in Iraq began, SUV owners were polled about their attitudes toward the upcoming conflict, and by a very wide margin, they supported the idea. They all seemed to believe that the war would lower oil prices, and make fueling their gas guzzling behemoths
cheap. Now many are expressing dismay that this has not occurred. I spoke again to William and Susan Wellington, who expressed confusion about the current situation. "I used to see bumper stickers and tee shirts that said kick their ass, take their gas." said Mr. Wellington, "We have done the first part of that, why not the rest? Iraq has the world's second largest oil reserve, and now we control it, but gas costs more now than it did before the
war. It is already over two dollars a gallon, and I need premium!" "We were going to buy a new SUV once the Escalade is eighteen months old, and loses that new feeling," added Mrs. Wellington "but now I don't know. I hate having to be seen in anything old. If I didn't know better, I might think that young chap I saw on the University campus talking about peak oil wasn't crazy." For those who don't know, peak oil is the theory that the
world's oil supply can be represented as a bell curve. The first half of it will be easy to extract, and therefore cheap. The second half would be increasingly difficult to remove from the ground, and increasingly expensive. Depending upon whom you believe, the result of this could be mere inconvenience, prolonged recession, or war, famine, pestilence and death. I asked the Wellingtons to
consider whether peak oil was a valid theory, and if we had hit it. Susan nodded no, and William bellowed. "That's a bunch of vegan tree-hugger doom-saying nonsense! Where did you get that idea, Al Gore? Are you trying to cause panic? Why do you liberals hate America? We will have oil for centuries to come if we just look for it. We have heard this nonsense since the 1970s. It was not true then, and it's
not true now. I don't know exactly why gas prices are so high, but I would wager my last dollar that it is Bill Clinton's fault. After all, it was he who drove Rush Limbaugh to drugs, and he should accept responsibility for that" The Wellingtons would not talk to me any further after that. I wonder how long big SUVs will keep selling with gas at these prices. Will they still say that fuel-efficient cars are only for tree-huggers in a
year? One thing is for certain. People who depend on cheap oil don't want to talk about peak oil. Keith Addison wrote: Different point I know, but US gasoline prices are currently $2.87 to $3.37 a (US) gallon, very cheap!Weekly Retail Premium Gasoline Prices (Including Taxes)Date 4/30/07 (U.S. Dollars per
Gallon) Belgium 6.80 France 6.71 Germany 7.09 Italy 6.68 Netherlands 7.77 UK 7.07 US 3.18Another source:pence/litre Austria 75 Belguim 95 Czech Rep 71.5 Denmark 92.2 Eire
74.5 Finland 89.4 France 85.2 Germany 90 Greece 65.7 Netherlands 100.3 Hungary 83.5 Italy 87.2 Luxembourg 76.5 Norway 94.8 Poland 79.5 Portugal 85.8 Spain 66.4 Sweden 82.1 Switzerland 72.1 United Kingdom(Av) 96.5
USA 37.5Gasoline in the US costs half or less what it costs in other industrialised countries.Much too cheap, $10 would be better, make it soon.BestKeithLike evey freakin
law, special cases are not accounted for. Consequently, laws are made to be broken. Bhandari needs to show the

Re: [Biofuel] Martin Luther King you don't see on TV

2007-04-05 Thread Fred Oliff

thanks very much for shedding some light on a great humanitarian. who really 
killed Mr King?
I watched The Fog of War, finally, last night, and it was interesting to 
note the Vietnamese reaction in the mid 90s to the American intervention 
into what had been for them (Vietnamese) a struggle for independence. I need 
to know more, I know, ignorance is a dangerous thing.




From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Earth Hour
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 05:00:53 -0500

Hi Keith...thanks for this response--a real eye opener for this closed in,
cutoff from truth, middle American white boy.  I'd like to add the
following: http://www.truthout.org:80/docs_2006/040407R.shtml Mike DuPree

The Martin Luther King You Don't See on TV
By Jeff Cohen and Norman Solomon
t r u t h o u t | Guest Contributors
Wednesday 04 April 2007

It's become a TV ritual: Every year on April 4, as Americans 
commemorate

Martin Luther King's death, we get perfunctory network news reports about
the slain civil rights leader.

The remarkable thing about these reviews of King's life is that 
several

years - his last years - are totally missing, as if flushed down a memory
hole.

What TV viewers see is a closed loop of familiar file footage: King
battling segregation in Birmingham (1963); reciting his dream of racial
harmony at the rally in Washington (1963); marching for voting rights in
Selma, Alabama (1965); and finally, lying dead on the motel balcony in
Memphis (1968).

An alert viewer might notice that the chronology jumps from 1965 to
1968. Yet King didn't take a sabbatical near the end of his life. In fact,
he was speaking and organizing as diligently as ever.

Almost all of those speeches were filmed or taped. But they're not 
shown

today on TV.

Why?

It's because national news media have never come to terms with what
Martin Luther King Jr. stood for during his final years.

In the early 1960s, when King focused his challenge on legalized 
racial

discrimination in the South, most major media were his allies. Network TV
and national publications graphically showed the police dogs and bullwhips
and cattle prods used against Southern blacks who sought the right to vote
or [the right] to eat at a public lunch counter.

But after passage of civil rights acts in 1964 and 1965, King began
challenging the nation's fundamental priorities. He maintained that civil
rights laws were empty without human rights - including economic rights.
For people too poor to eat at a restaurant or afford a decent home, King
said, anti-discrimination laws were hollow.

Noting that a majority of Americans below the poverty line were white,
King developed a class perspective. He decried the huge income gaps between
rich and poor, and called for radical changes in the structure of our
society to redistribute wealth and power.

True compassion, King declared, is more than flinging a coin to a
beggar; it comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs
restructuring.

By 1967, King had also become the country's most prominent opponent of
the Vietnam War, and a staunch critic of overall US foreign policy, which 
he

deemed militaristic. In his Beyond Vietnam speech delivered at New York's
Riverside Church on April 4, 1967 - a year to the day before he was
murdered - King called the United States the greatest purveyor of violence
in the world today. (Full text/audio here.)

From Vietnam to South Africa to Latin America, King said, the US was 
on

the wrong side of a world revolution. King questioned our alliance with
the landed gentry of Latin America, and asked why the US was suppressing
revolutions of the shirtless and barefoot people in the Third World,
instead of supporting them.

In foreign policy, King also offered an economic critique, complaining
about capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa
and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the
social betterment of the countries.

You haven't heard the Beyond Vietnam speech on network news
retrospectives, but national media heard it loud and clear back in 1967 -
and loudly denounced it. Time magazine called it demagogic slander that
sounded like a script for Radio Hanoi. The Washington Post patronized that
King has diminished his usefulness to his cause, his country, his people.

In his last months, King was organizing the most militant project of 
his
life: the Poor People's Campaign. He crisscrossed the country to assemble 
a
multiracial army of the poor that would descend on Washington - engaging 
in

nonviolent civil disobedience at the Capitol, if need be - until Congress
enacted a poor people's bill of rights. Reader's Digest warned of an
insurrection.

King's economic bill of rights called for massive government jobs
programs to rebuild America's cities. He saw a crying need to

Re: [Biofuel] the 'Inconvenient Truth'

2007-03-04 Thread Fred Oliff




snip?
I think alot better arguement could be made that there is no known benefit
to the planet from Humans, and we should go get 'em.   Oh, except that you
can't ask a human this question because they are not a neutral observer.


looks like we are well on our way to doing just that. but let's not go 
gently into that good night without at least some fight.  no more wars 
except against global warming, eh?



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

2007-02-28 Thread Fred Oliff

I would like to personally thank all of you in helping to cure my ignorance.

From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:26:10 +0900Hi Fred actually to me both are important.I think one of the worst things one can be called is a hypocrite.Sticks and stones, and plenty of folks with their own agendas tothrow stones if there's aught to be gained from it. Both sides ofsuch accusations need checking for hipocrisy. if Al Gore's squanders energy perhaps they ought to find someone esle to be the spokesperson for the Earth."They" ought to? Who's 
"they"?Did you ever notice Darryl's sig?"It's your planet.If you won't look after it, who will?"Like everybody else, YOU are the spokesperson for the Earth, not someother guy appointed by "them".BestKeith From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Date:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)   The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.  So how true is it - at least to him.  If it doent motivate him 
maybe he knows something we dont.  So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the board of directors.Kirk  Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Hi Kirk and all,  When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man.  Tom Irwin  
  From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject:[Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use Date:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST) ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Fake Drug, Fake Illness People believe it!


and in most cases those same problems can be solved with nothing more than making those changes, lifestyle, activity, diet. better living NOT with chemistry. give me the placebo.




From:"Zeke Yewdall" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Fake Drug, Fake Illness  People believe it!Date:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:24:58 -0700
Well, my opinion is that most pharmaceuticals are a haox, in that they purport to solve some complex socio-physiological problem with nothing more than a little pill - no changes in lifestyle, activity, diet, social interactions, etc, required.
Z
On 2/27/07, Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Havidol cute, but I doubt most people see "have it all", until afterthey learn it's a hoax.Doug, N0LKKKansas USA inc.___Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use


Al Gore flew from Montreal to Toronto last week. I would have thought a true advocate for climate change could have found someone with 1)maybe a Smart car to drive him, 2)powered with biodiesel or some other renewable fuel. David Suzuki is on a 50-city cross Canada tour and I understand he is also flying everywhere. When does the medium (i.e. the messenger) become more important than the message?




From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)








Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_worldid=5072659

Heated poolselectronic gatesgas lanterns in yardand $30,000 a year in utility bills. How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?

(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.

Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.

"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."

Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent."


Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it." 

A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon footprint on the website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)

The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green Power Switch program  electricity generated through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero."


These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."

The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an average of $536 a month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005.






Bored stiff? Loosen up...Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use

Tom,
I like your answer better.


From: "Tom Irwin" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:40:38 +


Hi Kirk and all,
When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man. 
Tom Irwin




From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)








Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth': While telling the rest of us to cut back, he uses 20 times more energy to run his house than everyone else
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_worldid=5072659

Heated poolselectronic gatesgas lanterns in yardand $30,000 a year in utility bills. How do you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?

(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) - Back home in Tennessee, safely ensconced in his suburban Nashville home, Vice President Al Gore is no doubt basking in the Oscar awarded to "An Inconvenient Truth," the documentary he inspired and in which he starred. But a local free-market think tank is trying to make that very home emblematic of what it deems Gore's environmental hypocrisy.

Armed with Gore's utility bills for the last two years, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research charged Monday that the gas and electric bills for the former vice president's 20-room home and pool house devoured nearly 221,000 kilowatt-hours in 2006, more than 20 times the national average of 10,656 kilowatt-hours.

"If this were any other person with $30,000-a-year in utility bills, I wouldn't care," says the Center's 27-year-old president, Drew Johnson. "But he tells other people how to live and he's not following his own rules."

Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent."


Kalee Kreider, a spokesperson for the Gores, did not dispute the Center's figures, taken as they were from public records. But she pointed out that both Al and Tipper Gore work out of their home and she argued that "the bottom line is that every family has a different carbon footprint. And what Vice President Gore has asked is for families to calculate that footprint and take steps to reduce and offset it." 

A carbon footprint is a calculation of the CO2 fossil fuel emissions each person is responsible for, either directly because of his or her transportation and energy consumption or indirectly because of the manufacture and eventual breakdown of products he or she uses. (You can calculate your own carbon footprint on the website http://www.carbonfootprint.com/)

The vice president has done that, Kreider argues, and the family tries to offset that carbon footprint by purchasing their power through the local Green Power Switch program  electricity generated through renewable resources such as solar, wind, and methane gas, which create less waste and pollution. "In addition, they are in the midst of installing solar panels on their home, which will enable them to use less power," Kreider added. "They also use compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy efficiency measures and then they purchase offsets for their carbon emissions to bring their carbon footprint down to zero."


These efforts did little to impress Johnson. "I appreciate the solar panels," he said, "but he also has natural gas lanterns in his yard, a heated pool, and an electric gate. While I appreciate that he's switching out some light bulbs, he is not living the lifestyle that he advocates."

The Center claims that Nashville Electric Services records show the Gores in 2006 averaged a monthly electricity bill of $1,359 for using 18,414 kilowatt-hours, and $1,461 per month for using 16,200 kilowatt-hours in 2005. During that time, Nashville Gas Company billed the family an average of $536 a month for the main house and $544 for the pool house in 2006, and $640 for the main house and $525 for the pool house in 2005. That averages out to be $29,268 in gas and electric bills for the Gores in 2006, $31,512 in 2005.






Bored stiff? Loosen up...Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games.

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE!

Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power Use


actually to me both are important. I think one of the worst things one can be called is a hypocrite. if Al Gore's squanders energy perhaps they ought to find someone esle to be the spokesperson for the Earth.




From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:45:14 -0800 (PST)

The message is - It isnt really that important. If it were I would do it.
So how true is it - at least to him.
If it doent motivate him maybe he knows something we dont.
So of all people to squander energy it shouldnt be him.

You might want to look into Cripple Creek Coal which he is on the board of directors.

KirkTom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi Kirk and all,
When the message cannot be attacked then attack the messenger. Ok, so Gore doesn´t walk the talk. How many of us do? We try to, but there is a long way to go for most everyone in the developed world. It´s the message that´s inportant, not the man. 
Tom Irwin




From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth' Power UseDate:Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:57:43 -0800 (PST)










Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on
Yahoo! Answers.

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20

2007-02-26 Thread Fred Oliff

you have my vote! please run for office now!

From:robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20Date:Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:36:31 -0800Darryl McMahon quoted an article that included: Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive New technology, not "punitive measures," is the best way to help oil and gas companies in Canada reduce pollution, an Alberta oil executive told a special legislative committee on Tuesday. Gordon Lambert, vice-president, sustainable development for Suncor Energy Inc., said the federal
government should set up a new technology fund to help oil and gas companies develop innovative ways to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases. Let's see if I understand this: 1.Oil companies are making BILLIONS in profits from the recentprice spikes in oil. 2.Consumers are funding those profits. 3.A tacit admission that the responsibility for creating thecarbon pollution lies with the oil companies. 4.The oil companies are asking for a government handout to developnew technology to sequester
carbon.In effect, the oil companies want taxpayers to fund their R D. Hmmm . . . Here's what I propose: 1.Use LESS energy! 2.A significant windfall profits tax on the oil companies. 3.Significant financial incentives for consumers to invest inefficiency at home. 4.Significant financial incentives for communities to plan forlowered energy use. 5.A significant tax on energy use that will encourage
conservation. 6.Using the carbon as raw material to BUILD THINGS rather than"sequestering," which is geologic nonsense! 7.DO something NOW, rather than keeping to the "business as usual"model. But then, I'm a guest in your country, Darryl, so I don't want tocomplain . . .robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice""The Long Journey"New Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20

2007-02-26 Thread Fred Oliff


I am in Canada, you're in Canada?




From:robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change: oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20Date:Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:00:14 -0800Fred Oliff wrote:  you have my vote!please run for office now!  Sorry Fred, but I've been out of the country too long to qualify . ..You'd have to amend the Constitution.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice""The Long Journey"New Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project 
Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curbclimate change:oil executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20

2007-02-26 Thread Fred Oliff

better an oxymoron than the alternative


From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to 
curbclimatechange:oil  executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:09:18 -0600

ill take the job, if only to make the other politicians look even dumber
than they do now...
- Original Message -
From: Randall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change:oil
executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20


  Robert,
 
  Getcherself on the ballot and I will vote for you...especially since you
  don't want the job!  :-)
 
  --Randall
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 2:17 PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fund new technology to curb climate change:oil
  executive - CBC.ca - 2007.02.20
 
 
  Randall wrote:
 
 Robert,
 
 Unless I am just missing something basic...if you are over 35 years 
old,
 a
 natural born citizen of the US, and have lived in the US for 14 years,
 you
 are qualified.  I don't read anywhere that it says that you have to be 
a
 resident for the last 14 years prior to running for election.  Plus,
 don't
 forget...there are other national offices.  :-)
 
 --Randall
 
 US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
 
 No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United
 States,
 at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to
 the
 office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that 
office
 who
 shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been
 fourteen
 years a resident within the United States.
 
 
 
 Ok, I looked at my copy of the Constitution and you're right.  I'd
  read the 14 years' residency requirement to mean 14 years immediately
  prior to running for office.  Vote for me!!!
 
 Although, I don't really WANT the job . . .
 
  robert luis rabello
  The Edge of Justice
  The Long Journey
  New Adventure for Your Mind
  http://www.newadventure.ca
 
  Ranger Supercharger Project Page
  http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
 
 
  ___
  Biofuel mailing list
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
 
  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
  messages):
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 
 
 
  ___
  Biofuel mailing list
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
 
  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
  http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 
  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
  messages):
  http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 
 
  --
  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 
2/25/2007
  3:16 PM
 



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2/25/2007 
3:16 PM


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our Civilization

2007-02-19 Thread Fred Oliff

www.theonion.com, a satirical look at the news. sometimes we need some humour in our lives. I know I could use a laugh right about now, just before the precipice.


From: "John Wilson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our CivilizationDate: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:08:18 -0400



Fred Oliff wrote: "screw the meek", they have had over 2000 years to do something and have  not, doth quote the OnionOK-who did the Onion Quote? Or should that be The Onion saith...

Wow! Taking guidance from a talking onion and they say, quote:"the Jesus freaks" end guote, have some weird ideas!

Yours trulyJohn Wilson***Wilsonia Farm Kennel PreserveGoldensPh-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htmPups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htmPolitics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. Not anymore! Smoke freedom day 6 th December 2006^
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] U.S. Military Is The Largest Consumer Of Oil On Earth

2007-02-19 Thread Fred Oliff


so it makes complete sense to only attack those countries that have oil, not those that might actually pose a real threat?




From:"Frank Navarrete" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] U.S. Military Is The Largest Consumer Of Oil On EarthDate:Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:42:59 -0500
And thus a push for escalation. . . .

On 2/19/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
U.S. Military Is The Largest Consumer Of Oil On EarthThe US military is completely addicted to oil. Unsurprisingly, its
oil consumption for aircraft, ships, ground vehicles and facilitiesmakes the Pentagon the single largest oil consumer in the world. Bythe way, according to the 2006 CIA World Factbook rankings there areonly 35 countries (out of 210) in the world that consume more oil per
day than the Pentagon.http://www.energybulletin.net/26194.htmlPublished on 17 Feb 2007 by Energy Bulletin. Archived on 17 Feb 2007.US military oil pains
by Sohbet KarbuzAs of September 30, 2005 the US Air Force had 5,986 aircraft in service. (1)At the beginning of 2006 the US Navy had 285 combat and supportships, and around 4,000 operational aircraft (planes and
helicopters). (2)At the end of 2005, the US Army had a combat vehicle fleet ofapproximately 28,000 armored vehicles (tracked vehicles such asAbrams tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles)(3). Besides those the
Army and the Marine corps have tactical wheeled vehicles such as140,000 High-Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles. The US Army hasalso over 4,000 combat helicopters and several hundred fixed wingaircraft.
Add all those also 187,493 fleet vehicles (4) (passenger cars,busses, light trucks etc) the US Department of Defense (DOD) uses.The issue is that except for 80 nuclear submarines and aircraftcarriers, almost all military fleet (including the ones that will be
joining in the next decade) run on oil.Yes, the US military is completely addicted to oil. Unsurprisingly,its oil consumption for aircraft, ships, ground vehicles andfacilities makes the Pentagon the single largest oil consumer in the
world. By the way, according to the 2006 CIA World Factbook rankingsthere are only 35 countries (out of 210) in the world that consumemore oil per day than the Pentagon.An interesting point is that even though there are only a few data
sources, how much oil the Pentagon really consumes is still kind ofpuzzle, at least to me.(5)According to recently released "Annual Energy Management Report", inFiscal Year 2006 the Pentagon consumed 320,000 barrels per day of
site delivered oil, compared to about 360,000 barrels per day in2005. Note that these and all other official figures do not includefuel obtained at no cost overseas(6), fuel consumed bycontractors(7), fuel consumed in some leased and privatized
facilities, and not last but least oil consumed by certain leased andrented fleet vehicles.While the official figures for military oil consumption went down in2006, the costs went to the sky. In 2005 DoD had spent slightly over
$8.5 billion for oil but this figure reached $17 billion in 2006.Note that oil accounts for 85% of the DoD's $20 billion energyconsumption costs in 2006.Figure 1: The US military oil consumption and costs
Source: DESC Fact book (several issues), EIA Annual Energy Review(several issues), Federal Energy Management Program Annual Report toCongress FY2005 and FY2006, General Services Administration Federal
Fleet Report for Fiscal Year 2006, DoD Annual Energy ManagementReport for Fiscal Year 2006. Note that cost figures are convertedinto 2006 constant prices by using the Bureau of Labor Statistics CPIindex.
Fortunately at least the cost part of US military oil consumption hasrecently been getting attention. For example, Senator Dick Lugar'swebsite contains a section on "Oil and the Military."(8)
http://lugar.senate.gov/energy/security/military.html In there it isstated that "Some of the energy related costs to the military includeprotecting shipping lanes, ports, and fuel delivery convoys, as well
as transporting the fuel that provides power at military bases. Intotal, the Department of Defense estimates that each $10 per barrelincrease in oil prices costs the U.S. military an additional $1.3billion dollars."
I don't know what that $1.3 billion really contains but certainly notthe items listed. Because a) "every 10 dollar increase in the priceof a barrel of oil costs the United States Air Force $600 million"
(9) only, b) the US military [in 2003] "allocated $49.1 billionannually to maintaining the capability to assure the flow of oil fromthe Persian Gulf," (10),  c) DESC alone spends $1 million per day
just for transporting the fuel to delivery point (11), among others.Since oil is a vital strategic commodity and since "DOD's consumptionof oil represents the highest priority of all uses, there will be no
fundamental limits to DOD's fuel supply for many, many decades."(12)However, once the global peak is reached things will get

Re: [Biofuel] Virgin, the Dynamo, and the Prize

2007-02-19 Thread Fred Oliff

Thanks Keith, some very good stuff to read there. Must get to it right away. Branson is perhaps taking the approach that no matter how big the problem, throw enough money at it and it will get solved. How myopic.

From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:[Biofuel] Virgin, the Dynamo, and the PrizeDate:Tue, 20 Feb 2007 03:41:09 +0900http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021407J.shtmlVirgin, the Dynamo, and the Prize By Kelpie Wilson t r u t h o u t | Environmental Editor Wednesday 14 February 2007 Like most American kids in the 1960s, I was an avid Star Trek fanand I rooted for every new development in the US space program. I'llnever forget staying up past midnight to watch Neil Armstrong takeMan's first
steps on the moon. But by the time of the first shuttle disaster in 1986, I was lessconcerned with the Star Trek mission and more concerned with the fateof the Earth. Apart from the human tragedy of the disaster, thesetback to the space shuttle program didn't seem to matter much, andthe image of the Challenger flameout at 48,000 feet over Floridaseemed symbolic of the utter failure of Western society to create asustainable civilization on Planet Earth. The recent release of the IPCC's fourth assessment on climatechange is just one more milestone documenting the disintegration ofEarth's planetary life-support systems. The world must act quickly,but I am not impressed by the announcement last week that Sir RichardBranson, founder of
a company that is building a fleet of excursionvehicles for the space tourism market, has offered a $25 millionprize for the invention of new carbon-sequestration technologies. Branson's space travel company, called Virgin Galactic (in linewith his other ventures, Virgin Media, Virgin Trains and VirginAirways), is building five suborbital spacecraft based on BurtRutan's X-Prize winning design, SpaceShipOne. Tourists will pay about$200,000 a ticket to spew greenhouse gases into the upper atmosphereand enjoy an hour of bouncing around in microgravity. Presumably, itwas the success of the X-Prize competition in producing this spacetoy that inspired Branson to offer the carbon-sequestration prize,which he calls the Earth Challenge. Sadly, Branson's prize may domore
harm than good. There are two big problems with the Earth Challenge prize. First,and most important, it sends the wrong message to those who are justwaking up to the true threat of climate change: it says we can solvethis problem by inventing the right techno-fix. Branson himself saidit at his news conference announcing the prize: "Man created theproblem; therefore Man should solve the problem." If "Man" is about to jump in and fix the carbon problem, thenwe'll all be able to carry on with business as usual, right? Yikes!If this perception becomes widespread, then there will be nomotivation to change our wasteful habits. We can relax, because wehave plenty of coal in the ground and our techno-heroes will find away to capture and
store those pesky carbon molecules out of the waysomewhere. Encouraging complacency is one problem. Then there's the problemthat any techno-fix solution big enough to make a difference has thepotential for dangerous unintended consequences of planetarymagnitude. Ideas like pumping CO2 deep into the ground or the oceanmay sound promising, but can create new disasters. For instance, theoceans have already been absorbing much of the CO2 generated duringthe fossil fuel era, and as a result, they are turning acidic. No oneknows how much more acidic the oceans can become before the calciumshells of animals like clams and corals begin to dissolve. We can also inject CO2 into old oil and gas fields and coal beds- it is being done right
now in Norway, Texas and Canada. But inorder to be effective as a carbon-sequestration strategy, hundreds ofunderground reservoirs would need to be created and maintained. JeffGoodell, writing in his book Big Coal, says that each reservoir wouldspread out "fifty or so square miles underground, which means that ifcarbon sequestration does indeed become widespread, tens of thousandsof people will be living above giant bubbles of CO2." Leakage is aproblem, he says, "CO2 is buoyant underground and can migrate throughcracks and faults in the earth, pooling in unexpected places." A 20percent concentration of odorless CO2 can cause a person to loseconsciousness in "a breath or two" and asphyxiate. And here's an unintended consequence I have never heard discussed- what
happens to all of the oxygen in the CO2 molecules that getsequestered? When plants pull CO2 out of the air and use it to growstems and roots, they recycle the oxygen back into the atmosphere.Are we in danger of burying a needful portion of our oxygen deep inthe Earth? Ultimately, Branson's Earth Challenge prize reflects the sameattitude that got us into the climate crisis in the first place. It'sa wet dream for engineers who now get to play

Re: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our Civilization Inevitable?

2007-02-17 Thread Fred Oliff

screw the meek, they have had over 2000 years to do something and have 
not, doth quote the Onion

From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our Civilization Inevitable?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:36:57 -0400

Amazing! It was fortold over two thousand years ago that The meek shall 
inherit the earth. Mankind and all higher life forms are on a collision 
course with extinsion. At the time of the last ice age when the sun 
eventually fails to put out enough energy to subtain life the only life 
left on earth will be single cell organism living in vents underneath 
frozen oceans. We are not talking about the problem or  trying to find ways 
to avoid extinsion.  At this point in time we have no way of avoiding 
extinsion. Maybe not in the near future and we still have time to change 
the inevitable but at this juncture in time one has to definately say that 
unless we work to finding a solution the  deadly crash of our civilization 
is inevitable.
Yours truly
John Wilson
***
Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
Goldens
Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
  Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
  Politics:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm

In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . 
After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.

Not anymore! Smoke freedom day 6 th December 2006
^

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our Civilization Inevitable?

2007-02-17 Thread Fred Oliff

I like it, thanks!  The earth they inherit will hopefully be worth something 
inheriting.

From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our Civilization Inevitable?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 04:36:43 +0900

 Hey Fred...the statement to which you refer says nothing about what kind 
of
 earth the meek would inherit.  In fact, the meek being the meek (ie
 enduring injury with patience and without resentment...deficient in 
spirit
 and courage...not violent or strong) are probably quite happy being
 screwed.  IMHO, unless you have an ulterior motive to screwing the meek
 generally or maybe a particular meek, I say find another choir.  Mike 
DuPree
 PS Earth First anyone

Some take the bible
For what it's worth
When it says that the meek
Shall inherit the Earth
Well, I heard that some sheik
Has bought New Jersey last week
'N you suckers ain't gettin' nothin'

Is Hare Rama really wrong
If you wander around
With a napkin on
With a bell on a stick
An' your hair is all gone . . .
(The geek shall inherit nothin')

You say yer life's a bum deal
'N yer up against the wall . . .
Well, people, you ain't even got no kinda
Deal at all
'Cause what they do
In Washington
They just takes care of NUMBER ONE
An' NUMBER ONE ain't YOU
You ain't even NUMBER TWO

Those Jesus Freaks
Well, they're friendly but
The shit they believe
Has got their minds all shut
An' they don't even care
When the church takes a cut
Ain't it bleak when you got so much nothin'

Frank Zappa: The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing
from You Are What You Is.

 - Original Message -
 From: Fred Oliff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:40 AM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our Civilization 
Inevitable?

   screw the meek, they have had over 2000 years to do something and 
have
   not, doth quote the Onion

  From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
  Subject: [Biofuel] Is the Deadly Crash of Our Civilization Inevitable?
  Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:36:57 -0400

  Amazing! It was fortold over two thousand years ago that The meek 
shall
  inherit the earth. Mankind and all higher life forms are on a 
collision
  course with extinsion. At the time of the last ice age when the sun
  eventually fails to put out enough energy to subtain life the only 
life
  left on earth will be single cell organism living in vents underneath
  frozen oceans. We are not talking about the problem or  trying to find
  ways
  to avoid extinsion.  At this point in time we have no way of avoiding
  extinsion. Maybe not in the near future and we still have time to 
change
  the inevitable but at this juncture in time one has to definately say 
that
  unless we work to finding a solution the  deadly crash of our 
civilization
  is inevitable.
  Yours truly
  John Wilson
  ***
  Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve
  Goldens
  Ph-Fax (902)665-2386)
  Web:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm
Pups:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm
Politics:  http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm

  In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 
PM .
  After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone.

  Not anymore! Smoke freedom day 6 th December 2006

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The Anti-Empire Report

2007-02-16 Thread Fred Oliff


might I recommend "Stolen Continents" by Ronald Wright?




From:Doug Younker [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] The Anti-Empire ReportDate:Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:41:53 -0600Aztec, Inca, Maya, I believe two of those flourished, and met theirdemise sometime before, the European discovery of the "new world". Ijust don't remember by world history as well as I should. I was in HighSchool, when I figured out those indigenous to the American Continents,where no less civilized, and no more barbaric than the Europeans who"discovered" them.However that was not the conditioning expected of me.Doug, N0LKKKansas USA inc.Jason Katie wrote:  i thought the 
South American empires were wiped out by the europeans  before they had the chance to kill themselves off?___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel :-)

2007-02-15 Thread Fred Finch


I would like to see what advertising for biodiesel from liposuction would
look like.

How about a quiet radio ad that lists all the earth friendly points
quitely and calmly gives the tagline...   Soylent Green...   It's
People...

fred

On 2/15/07, Christopher  Jacqueline tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


In the movie Fight Club, Brad Pitt's character makes quality soap that
he
sells to high class shops. He breaks into hospital dumpsters to get his
raw
material. =)

Best,
Chris

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Debra
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:07 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel :-)

This whole subject is making me feel sick... I can't take the visual image
of it all.
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel :-)


Are we talking about grain fed lipofat vs range fed?  Range
fed would require walking around and bending over, causing less fat
and more lean meat, whereas grain fed requires only bending over,
like we are already used to, plus easier to engineer and enrich the
grain for the highest quality lipofat.  Mike

LOL!

What about the comparative Omega-3 fatty acid content?

Is the grain a fossil-fuels dependant industrial monocrop a la ADM?
Not carbon-neutral lipofat then, hm.

What will be the effect of this kind of biofuel on tortilla prices in
Mexico? To say nothing of Tyson's bottom line, let alone the Nikkei
Index?

And what about MOA disease (Mad Overweight Americans) - are feed
regulations in place to ensure that you're not eating each other's
brains?

Let them eat grass, that's what I say.

Actually, a certain list member made some liposuction by-product
biodiesel four years ago but kept quiet about it because he wasn't
sure the world was ready. Or something like that.

Best

Keith


- Original Message -

From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch
To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel :-)

Wait a minute...  I think we have a potential new field of
employment for many Americans!  We would generate our own fuel
reserves by sucking out the fat of our asses at the same time  we
suck off the fat of the land!  Granted it would not be sustainable.

Kind of like what Tyson foods does to chickens.  We could have
literal fat farms!  Produce the fat and render the fat.

What a great idea!

fred

On 2/13/07, MK DuPree
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

LOL LOL LOL LO:L...Get off your lazy fat asses and REJECT REAL ID...LOL
LOL
LOL Mike DuPree
- Original Message -
From: frantz Desprez
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel :-)


  :-)
  Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel! A norwegian businessman, Mr.
  Lauri Venøy, will settle in Miami in Florida to launch a production of
  biodiesel starting from greases resulting from liposuccions. 60% of
the
  Americans are in overweight and a great number of them has recourse to
  the liposuccion. For Mr. Lauri Venøy, that can represent a lucrative
  market in the field of renewable energies. The norwegian contractor is
  currently in talks with the Jackson Memorial American hospital for the
  signature of an agreement, which would enable him to acquire 11.500
  liters of human grease resulting from liposuccions each week, and thus
  to produce 10.000 liters of bio-diesel.
 
  BE Norway number 71 (8/02/2007) - Embassy of France in Norway/ADIT -
 
http://www.bulletins-electroniques.com/actualites/41155.htmhttp://ww
w.bulletins-electroniques.com/actualites/41155.htm
 
  Liposuccions : une nouvelle source de biodiesel !
  Un homme d'affaire norvégien, M. Lauri Venøy, va s'installer à Miami
en
  Floride pour lancer une production de biodiesel à partir des graisses
  issues des liposuccions.
 
  60 % des Américains sont en surpoids et un grand nombre d'entre eux
ont
  recours à la liposuccion. Pour M. Lauri Venøy, cela peut représenter
un
  marché lucratif dans le domaine des énergies renouvelables.
 
  L'entrepreneur norvégien est actuellement en pourparler avec le très
  grand hôpital américain Jackson Memorial en vue de la signature d'un
  accord, qui lui permettrait d'acquérir 11 500 litres de graisse
humaine
  issue des liposuccions chaque semaine, et ainsi de produire 10.000
  litres de bio-diesel.
 
  BE Norvège numéro 71 (8/02/2007) - Ambassade de France en Norvège /
ADIT
  -
http://www.bulletins-electroniques.com/actualites/41155.htmhttp://ww
w.bulletins-electroniques.com/actualites/41155.htm

Re: [Biofuel] Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel :-)

2007-02-13 Thread Fred Finch


Wait a minute...  I think we have a potential new field of employment for
many Americans!  We would generate our own fuel reserves by sucking out the
fat of our asses at the same time  we suck off the fat of the land!  Granted
it would not be sustainable.

Kind of like what Tyson foods does to chickens.  We could have literal fat
farms!  Produce the fat and render the fat.

What a great idea!

fred

On 2/13/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


LOL LOL LOL LO:L...Get off your lazy fat asses and REJECT REAL ID...LOL
LOL
LOL Mike DuPree
- Original Message -
From: frantz Desprez [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 8:40 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel :-)


 :-)
 Liposuccions: a new source of biodiesel! A norwegian businessman, Mr.
 Lauri Venøy, will settle in Miami in Florida to launch a production of
 biodiesel starting from greases resulting from liposuccions. 60% of the
 Americans are in overweight and a great number of them has recourse to
 the liposuccion. For Mr. Lauri Venøy, that can represent a lucrative
 market in the field of renewable energies. The norwegian contractor is
 currently in talks with the Jackson Memorial American hospital for the
 signature of an agreement, which would enable him to acquire 11.500
 liters of human grease resulting from liposuccions each week, and thus
 to produce 10.000 liters of bio-diesel.

 BE Norway number 71 (8/02/2007) - Embassy of France in Norway/ADIT -
 http://www.bulletins-electroniques.com/actualites/41155.htm

 Liposuccions : une nouvelle source de biodiesel !
 Un homme d'affaire norvégien, M. Lauri Venøy, va s'installer à Miami en
 Floride pour lancer une production de biodiesel à partir des graisses
 issues des liposuccions.

 60 % des Américains sont en surpoids et un grand nombre d'entre eux ont
 recours à la liposuccion. Pour M. Lauri Venøy, cela peut représenter un
 marché lucratif dans le domaine des énergies renouvelables.

 L'entrepreneur norvégien est actuellement en pourparler avec le très
 grand hôpital américain Jackson Memorial en vue de la signature d'un
 accord, qui lui permettrait d'acquérir 11 500 litres de graisse humaine
 issue des liposuccions chaque semaine, et ainsi de produire 10.000
 litres de bio-diesel.

 BE Norvège numéro 71 (8/02/2007) - Ambassade de France en Norvège / ADIT
 - http://www.bulletins-electroniques.com/actualites/41155.htm


 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
 messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/






___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Emissions report card puts Canada last - Globe Mail -2007.02.09

2007-02-09 Thread Fred Oliff

and the reason is Stephen Harper and the rest of the CRAP (Conservative 
Refrom Alliance Party) has (big oil) hands in their pockets.  If the party 
represented any other region in the country as effectively as they have the 
Alberta (and mainly Calgary) interests, would be in the mess we are?  I am 
not saying the Liberals would be any better, no, but so long as big oil runs 
the show we will continue to disappoint those international obligations.  
Embarrassed, but I support the Green Party.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Emissions report card puts Canada last - Globe  Mail 
-2007.02.09
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:59:03 -0500

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20070209.ENVIRO09/TPStory/

Emissions report card puts Canada last

Country has 'no plan' to fulfill pledge from G8 summit, U of T researchers 
say
MARTIN MITTELSTAEDT

ENVIRONMENT REPORTER

TORONTO -- Canada ranks dead last among members of the G8
industrialized countries when it comes to keeping a pledge made last
year to fight climate change by reducing greenhouse-gas emissions,
according to a report prepared by researchers at the University of
Toronto.

Canada was the only Group of Eight country deemed to have posted a
complete lack of compliance with the greenhouse-gas reduction goal set
at last summer's G8 summit in St. Petersburg.

Canada has no plan to cut its emissions in the short or long term,
and could have rising output of the gases blamed for global warming
under the Conservatives' Clean Air Act because the legislation doesn't
cap releases, the report said.

Ottawa has announced that Canada will reduce greenhouse emissions by
45 per cent -- to 65 per cent -- by 2050, but the report noted that as
of Dec. 31, the date at which it conducted the country comparisons,
Canada had not taken significant steps to curb GHG emissions, nor did
it have a plan in place to move forward on meeting its Kyoto-mandated
targets nor the ambitious 2050 targets.

Canada's commitment under the Kyoto Protocol is a 6-per-cent reduction
from 1990 levels by 2012.

Besides Canada, the G8 includes the United States, Japan, Germany,
Britain, France, Italy and Russia.

Since 1996, researchers at U of T's Munk Centre for International
Studies have issued compliance reports on how well the rhetoric of G8
leaders matches what their governments do to honour commitments made
at their annual summits.

The report, to which researchers at Moscow's State University Higher
School of Economics contributed the Russian analysis, compared how the
countries fared on 20 major pledges made at the meeting, covering
subjects such as economic development, security and health care, along
with the environment.

The G8 has fulfilled only 31 per cent of its commitments since the
summit last July. It has not scored this poorly since mid-2002,
according to the report.

On climate change, the countries pledged last year to meet our shared
. . . objectives of reducing greenhouse-gas emissions.

It was against this commitment that Canada seems to have delivered
rhetoric, rather than results, by scoring last among the G8 for having
no plans for cutting emissions. Canada's emissions are up at least 24
per cent from 1990 levels, one of the worst records in the
industrialized world.

Canada received the lowest score because of the Harper government's
change in policy and attitude towards the Kyoto Protocol, said Brian
Kolenda, co-director of the compliance unit on the U of T's G8
research group.

Canada's record was particularly weak against countries, such as
Germany and the U.K., that have exceeded their greenhouse-gas emission
reduction targets, he said.

Russia and Italy also had weak records, although their performance
exceeded Canada's.

Russia has met some of its obligations under Kyoto, but hasn't taken
new steps to mitigate its emissions. Italy isn't close to meeting its
Kyoto reduction target.

Although the United States has backed out of Kyoto, the report said it
is working hard to reduce its emissions, including funding of
$3.9-billion (U.S.) for technologies used to fight climate change.

The researchers also ranked the countries in terms of a G8 goal to
encourage the use of hybrid cars and clean diesel engines in vehicle
fleets. Canada has largely failed in its commitment to improve the
fuel efficiency of its automobiles, the report said.

*

Worst among equals

Researchers at the University of Toronto's Munk Centre for
International Studies issue reports on how well the rhetoric of G8
leaders matches what their governments do to honour commitments. The
group has ranked Canada last when it comes to keeping a pledge to
reduce greenhouse-gas emissions.

Scoring system:

+1: Full compliance

0: Partial compliance

-1:A lack of compliance

France

+1

'Establishing regulatory measures' for a 75% emission reduction

Germany

+1

'On pace to exceed requirements of the Kyoto Protocol'

Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?

2007-01-16 Thread Fred Oliff


maybe we ought to. thanks for the reminder. somewhat humbling, isn't it?




From:Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?Date:Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:45:34 +0900Hi Robert, Chip and all Chip Mefford wrote:  snip   Along those lines; Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of  Eden to dress it and to keep it.Now, where it says, "rape, pillage, ruin and destroy and then move  on," I haven't figured out yet.  
It's that "dominion" concept that people seem to struggle with . . .The idea that people were given "rule" over the earth and its creatures is often taken to mean: "We can do with the earth whatever we'd like."This is, of course, a rather selective reading of the scriptures, but many who claim to follow God do this sort of thing all the time!Why not take this literally then?"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, thatGod might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselvesare beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befallethbeasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth theother; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath nopreeminence 
above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place;all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knoweth thespirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast thatgoeth downward to the earth?" -- Ecclesiastes 3, 18-21BestKeith My hands smell of manure right now because I'm tending to my garden.(Yes, it's cold and there's snow on the ground, but all of this talk about humanity's problems really motivates me to get back to what's important.)I've got my truck running again (with its new computer!), so I'll be spreading barn litter for the next little while.It's a pain to climb the hill with a load in the back because I haven't got my supercharger connected 
right now, but it's better to crawl uphill and get the job done than to wring my hands in woe and do nothing!Working in the garden connects me with that original concept you've taken from Genesis in the quote above, and aside from being good for my health, it's therapeutic for my soul!  One thing I really like about this forum is that it's filled with people who are actually trying to solve the issues we're facing as a species, rather than burying our collective heads in the sand and hoping the disaster we're heading toward is just a myth perpetrated by environmentalists bent on ruining the economy and bashing America . . .  robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" "The Long 
Journey" New Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca  Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?

2007-01-15 Thread Fred Oliff

thank you, I am printing this and next time someone comesaknocking on the door to discuss my conversion to their particualr religion, I will share this with them!

From:David Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:robert and benita rabello biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Can these people be trusted with our planet?Date:Mon, 15 Jan 2007 21:53:06 +0100robert and benita rabello wrote:rabr Therefore, the ONLY way to determine what is TRUTH is torabr believe the literal text.rabr This gets people into a whole heap of troubleIt gets particularly ludicrous when they then assert that the bible isa good basis for morals. I have been involved in a robust exchangewith a couple of creationists in another list. One of them made thatclaim, in response to
which I posted this:As you are so well read on the bible, maybe you could help me out here.Regarding some of the specific laws of the bible and how to follow them:When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it createsa pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours.They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned inExodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be afair price for her?I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in herperiod of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, howdo I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.Lev. 25:44 states that I may
indeed possess slaves, both male andfemale, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. Afriend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but notCanadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?I have a neighbour who insists on working on Sunday(Sabbath.Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am Imorally obligated to kill him myself?A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is anabomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.I don't agree. Can you settle this?Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have adefect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Doesmy vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?Most of my male friends
get their hair trimmed, including the hair aroundtheir temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. Howshould they die?I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes meunclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two differentcrops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made oftwo different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tendsto curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to allthe trouble of getting the whole town together to stonethem? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a privatefamily affair like we do with people who sleep with theirin-laws? (Lev. 20:14)I
know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident youcan help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.I look foreward to your advice.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Water

2006-12-13 Thread Fred Oliff

Robert,
Thanks for this! It is about time we focused some attention on an issue of crushing importance. I would like to offer the following quote: "There is a lot of oil in the desert, but not much water, which one would you offer a thirsty person?"
Fred


From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] WaterDate: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:32:05 -0800
I now live in a place where rivers run year 'round and rainfall can last for days on end. However, I grew up in Los Angeles, where a history of stealing water from areas with sparse populations (and resultingly, little political clout) contributed significantly to the growth of a city that really has no business being so big. The discussions about climate change often mention water shortages in passing, but I don't hear a lot about water conservation among many people. In that light, I found this story very interesting: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6590362Last night, I heard this one on the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6174689.stmThis doesn't bode well for Africa, but the problem is global. I found an article on this topic by George Monibot this morning:  http://environment.guardian.co.uk/water/story/0,,1891587,00.htmlScary stuff!robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
"The Long Journey"
New Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The Death of a Compost Bin

2006-12-09 Thread Fred Finch


Hi Robert,

I have two bins at the moment.  The first is the plastic high tech made from
recycled bottles.  The second is ultra low tech.  A big cardboard box.

Of the two I like the box better right now.  That might change.  I like the
idea that when the box cannot be used for a composter I can compost it.

fred

On 12/9/06, Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello Robert,

I use wood posts stacked like a log cabin. It´s open on one side. I don´t
use treated wood anywhere. So avoid that poison. If the wood rots in time I
replace it.

Tom Irwin





--
From: *robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]*
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: *[Biofuel] The Death of a Compost Bin*
Date: *Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:01:49 -0800*

Although I don't do all of my composting in a bin, nearly all of our
household table scraps and the entire collection of waste from our bunny
cage went into a black plastic compost bin.  Please note the past tense verb
. . .

About a week or so ago, we had a blast of arctic air sweep through this
area.  Temperatures plummeted and with the outflow winds howling out of the
east, windchills of -20 C lasted for two or three days.  (I know that some
of you further east will probably laugh at this, but for those of us who
live near the ocean, -20 is pretty cold!)  The moisture in my compost bin
expanded as it froze, literally warping or shattering the plastic bin.

The whole thing actually fell over this morning.  I went out to clean up
the mess and found the top third of the contents completely preserved and
uncomposted (big surprise, it's been cold, right?), the middle third
consisted of a singular mass of partially composted, frozen material, while
the bottom third remained warm enough to keep on decomposing.

But the composter is toast.  I'll have to construct another one because
I'm NOT going to use plastic again . . .  What do the rest of you use for
compost bin construction material?

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
The Long Journey
New Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



--
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN 
Messengerhttp://g.msn.com/8HMBEN/2728??PS=47575Download today it's FREE!
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/




___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather

2006-11-30 Thread Fred Oliff

Joe,
The evening news last night reported an earthquake in Sudbury. In the Canadian Shield no less, thought to be one of the most geologically stable of "formations", the craton itself, though the Ottawa Valley, just downstream, is an old fault line with lots of seismic activity. While we are on the subject, and this has nothing to do with weather but more to do with whether, did you know that both Pickering and Darlington nuclear plants are located above very deep, very old faults? Apparently they are very good sources of the kind of cold water necessary for the cooling of the nuclear reactors. Just another one of those things that makes you say "H".
Fred


From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] More Weird WeatherDate: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:13:39 -0500
Nice take on the issue Tom;I also like to look at it from a larger perspective. Consider the earth from a systems approach. A ball floating in a vacuum being irradiated from one position in space, radiating heat energy into the cold sink of space on the opposite side. The earth has been cooling from a much hotter state billions of years ago. At some point the temperature stabilized around a point where incoming radiation balances the loss of energy from the dark side into space. Greeenhouse gasses reduce the radiative losses. Other atmospheric polutants with high albido values can reduce the incomming flux also ( sufuric acid droplets in the stratosphere for instance) and the balance can be shifted. But what I wonder about is the balance beneath the earth's surface. I haven't heard 
anyone talking about this but there is a balance there too obviously with energy adsorbed into the earth itself and radiated away. If this balance is tipped in the warming direction ( which it seems to be) then doesn't it stand to reason that the temperature of the earth itself, not just the atmosphere and oceans will begin to rise? Will this result in increased seismic and volcanic activity? I think volcanic ejecta are one of the major negative feedback modes which limit and eventually reverse global warming trends, by drastically limiting influx of heat. Could we be headed for not only severe weather but also severe seizmic activity such as eruptions, quakes and the resulting tsunamis and eventual ice age as well? Sound a little apocalyptic anyone? The four horsemen ( Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz) have been abroad spreading their 
evilslol. I'm no religious fanatic but it is a thoughtHa, now what am I gonna say when they come knocking on my door on Sunday hmmm?JoeThomas Kelly wrote:



Mike,
 CO2 levels are on the rise . nowhere near 250% since 2000.
In the year 2000, CO2 levels were at 368ppm (vol) = .0368% of air by volume. As of March, 2006 the CO2 levels were 381ppm = .0381% of the air by volume . a 3.53% increase.
 If temp change caused by CO2, alone, was all we had to be concerned with, climate change associated with it would not be very significant. The problem is the cascading effect that even a slight temp change can initiate.
 Ex. Slight increase in temp - less ice cover - less reflected solar energy, more absorbed  more heat --- less ice cover etc
 Slight increase in temp --- melting of permafrost  release of methane gas contributing to greenhouse effect temp increase -
melting of permafrost etc.

 The current 381ppm level represents a 100ppm increase over pre-industrial levels  a 36% increase .Very significant. Recent studies done involving the analysis of air trapped in tiny bubbles in Arctic Ice, show that changes such as these have occurred in the past, but over a much greater (as in 10's of thousands of years) rather than a few lifetimes.
 
 There are homeostatic mechanism that allow the earth to maintain relatively stable conditions. Large bodies of water absorb CO2. Homeostatic mechanisms can be overloaded. Because CO2 reacts with the water to form carbonic acid (dissociates into bicarbonate ion and hydrogen ion), over-loading the oceans with CO2 can result in a slightdrop in pH. (A similar series of events occurs in our bodies. We transport CO2 ... as the bicarbonate ion away from tissues. Increased metabolic rate  additional CO2 -- Increased carbonic acid and a very slight drop in pH of our blood. We feel the urge to breath faster ..result: weeliminate the CO2. Unfortunately our large bodies of water do not enjoy such a luxury.) A slight drop in the pH of oceans  breakdown and release of vast quantities CO2 sequestered in carbonates (shells of animal great and small).

 At what point does the cascade of events leading to "meltdown" occur?
. the "Tipping Point"? Has it already occurred? 

 Do we just sit and do nothing?
 I wish I paid more attention in English class... Was it Dylan Thomas? ... "Do not go silent ."
 Maybe all we

Re: [Biofuel] More Weird Weather

2006-11-30 Thread Fred Oliff


Joe,
Ottawa is one of the more tectonically active areas in eastern Canada due to its location on the Ottawa and Rideaurivers and upstream of the St. Lawrence. It has nothing at all to do with the amount of hot air emanating from our Parliament Buildings!Fred
PS I do not think it was an oversight but engineers have a wonderful way of creating future problems when solving immediate needs.




From:Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] More Weird WeatherDate:Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:08:12 -0500Fred Oliff wrote:  Joe,   The evening news last night reported an earthquake in Sudbury.In the  Canadian Shield no less, thought to be one of the most geologically  stable of "formations", the craton itself, though the Ottawa Valley,  just downstream, is an old fault line with lots of seismic activity.  While we are on the subject, and this has nothing to do with weather  but more to do with whether, did you know that both Pickering 
and  Darlington nuclear plants are located above very deep, very old faults? Good God man how could such an oversight have been allowed to happen?Pipes out into the deep waters of lake Ontario can provide plenty ofcold water vis the proposal to use it for air conditioning in theToronto core recently.These plants are lakeside anyways how could theyhave built them on fault lines??? These faults have had activity. Iremember several tremors going back to when I was a kid in Ottawa. Theywere always very minor but it shows that there is movement there. Godhelp us if one of those plants goes up.Joe___Biofuel mailing 
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America

2006-11-28 Thread Fred Oliff

neighbours...whadya gonna do?  you folks are great, I mean that sincerely.

From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:02:28 -0500

You'd think the Canadians would put up their own fence!

robert and benita rabello wrote:

 Fred Oliff wrote:

 Who gets riich when they build this new fence?

 Some company affiliated with congressmen and senators.

   And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well?

 Yes.  This has been a topic of derision among people in BC for the
 last several weeks.  I have a newspaper cartoon that shows Mr. Bush
 extoling the virtues of America's border with Canada.  He's shouting
 through a megaphone from the top of a barbed wire topped fence, complete
 with security cameras and a mine field.  An astonished Canadian, walking
 a dog, approaches the US border to hear Mr. Bush say:

 I cherish the unique and special relationship we have between our
 two countries.  Now, keep your hands where I can see them and step away
 from the wall!

 Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals
 out?  Just asking...

 They're supposed to protect America from all those terrorists
 invading from Canada that the US Customs agency can't seem to screen at
 the border, despite all the harassment they give to our allies and 
friends.

 I thought Al Gore's comment in An Inconvenient Truth about terrorism
 vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very
 telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier
 to fix?  Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness
 that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action
 (on the environment) is just not very popular.  No video games were
 made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming).

 Dealing with the climate issue will have an indirect consequence of
 significantly reducing our need to project power into the Persian Gulf
 to defend oil supplies.  That would go a long way toward ameliorating
 the hostility towards us that has been brewing in that region for the
 past fifty years or so.  The other side of the equation, however, will
 involve solving the Palestinian issue.

 Of course, I've been talking this way for thirty years now and no
 one seems willing to listen.  My mother thinks we should bomb the rest
 of the planet, calls my wife an ignorant foreigner (for suggesting
 that the US spend less money on defense and more on infrastructure and
 a social safety net) and told me to go to hell for suggesting that
 people who claim to be Christians should actually reflect a Christ-like
 attitude.  Sadly, this kind of mentality is common enough among American
 citizens that no substantive policy changes will ever occur.

 robert luis rabello
 The Edge of Justice
 Adventure for Your Mind
 http://www.newadventure.ca

 Ranger Supercharger Project Page
 http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/

 ___
 Biofuel mailing list
 Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

 Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
 http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

 Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax

2006-11-28 Thread Fred Oliff

maybe I am wrong but don't they also export good things as well as bad? Humanitarians like Audrey Hepburn et all going to third world countries to try to do some good? but as someone else on here so eloquently put it: "No good deed goes unprofited". I am trying, really trying, to see some good in everyone. I know that there are some good Americans, the folks on this list are I am sure (I assume) and my Grandma was American, so I know you can't be all bad!
PS I apologise most profusely for earlier posting full of typos!


From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving HoaxDate: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:07:25 -0600



yeah, a wealth of fullmetal jacket .223's. 
JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Molloy 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax

Hi Fred,
 Did I read you right? That Americans share their wealth? Examples please,
Regards,
Bob.

- Original Message - 
From: Fred Oliff 
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax



maybe we ought to re-define what is meant by rich? what is wealth after all if you do not share it? And the Americans do! what is wealth if you do not have your health, but a huge burden?




From:"JAMES PHELPS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving HoaxDate:Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:09:10 -0700snicker snicker snicker, OK specificaly the USA ( richest country in theworld is a quote from a Canadian I met) From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:33:13 -0500  
What?Luxembourg doesn't have universal healthcare?JAMES PHELPS wrote:I guess another question would be how this relates to freedom?And   why is it the richest country in the world cannot come up with   universal health care. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org  Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.17/553 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 4:00 AM
No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.5.431 / Virus Database: 268.14.17/553 - Release Date: 11/27/2006 4:00 AM
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] The Great Fence of America

2006-11-27 Thread Fred Oliff

Who gets riich when they build this new fence? And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well?
Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals out? Just asking...
I thought Al Gore's comment in "An Inconvenient Truth" about terrorism vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier to fix? Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action (on the environment) is just not very popular. No video games were made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming).
two cents

From:"JAMES PHELPS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving HoaxDate:Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:19:42 -0700I guess another question would be how this relates to freedom?And why is it the richest country in the world cannot come up with universal health care.On another beat, what was that saying on the statue of liberty?I wonder if that will have to be revisited concerning our new fence in the south.?JimFrom: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re:
[Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving HoaxDate: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:23:50 -0600universal health care, unlike in the USA where it's every man/women forhis/her self.JAMES PHELPS wrote: Wow thats almost 4 to one worse. Also how do Canada, Sweden and Iceland do so well coming from the free world? - Original Message - *From:* bob allen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:32 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] The
Great Thanksgiving Hoax Kirk McLoren wrote: We have some very wealthy people but a huge quantity of very poor. The corporations sell us on "frredom" yet the infant mortality in Belize is better than here. Most Americans havent a clue what it is like to live elsewhere. Spend an afternoon with the almanac and look at statistics. Read em and
weep. I did and your off the mark. We do rank poorly among European and some Asian countries but ahead of most poorer countries. (36th on a list at http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm) see http://www.brainyatlas.com/fields/2091.html for example Belize 24.31 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) United States 6.69
deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)Canada 4.95 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Afghanistan 144.76 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Sweden 3.44 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Iceland 3.53 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) India 61.47 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) China 27.25 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) Kirk
*/Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED]/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: On 11/24/06, *D. Mindock* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leo, Here's something about the Thanksgiving here in the USA. It just appeared in my email inbox. The story does have a moral,
whether it's correct or not, I not qualified to say. Peace, D. Mindock 11/23/2006 *The Great Thanksgiving Hoax* /by Richard J. Marbury/ snip Thus the real reason for Thanksgiving, deleted from the official story, is: Socialism does not work; the one and only source of abundance is free markets, and we thank God we live in a country
where we can have them. snip It always amuses me to find people who are so entralled by the free market that they actually seem to hold it in higher regard that God himself. Wouldn't a true Christian say that the one and only source of abundance is God? Also left out the Thanksgiving story is a fair bit of genocide, slavery, and other stuff we'd rather not
think about... Z ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42297/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:

Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax

2006-11-27 Thread Fred Oliff


maybe we ought to re-define what is meant by rich? what is wealth after all if you do not share it? And the Americans do! what is wealth if you do not have your health, but a huge burden?




From:"JAMES PHELPS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving HoaxDate:Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:09:10 -0700snicker snicker snicker, OK specificaly the USA ( richest country in theworld is a quote from a Canadian I met) From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Great Thanksgiving Hoax Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:33:13 -0500  What?Luxembourg doesn't have universal healthcare?JAMES PHELPS 
wrote:I guess another question would be how this relates to freedom?And   why is it the richest country in the world cannot come up with   universal health care. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org  Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ 
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Weird Weather

2006-11-27 Thread Fred Oliff

unfortunately no one is making the policy makers waitch this movie. it is largely preaching to the converted. realist or pessimist,the both still bleed.


From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: [Biofuel] Weird WeatherDate: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 13:07:44 -0800
Hello everyone! I talked my sweetheart into renting "An Inconvenient Truth" over the weekend. She finds it hard to sit through all of the science, but my boys were pretty interested throughout the film. We've had a very strange year, weather-wise, in this area. Back in January, we had the wettest month on record. It came in the middle of a long, rainy but mild winter that blended into an early spring, bringing warm temperatures. Our garden got a real kick-start from the mild temperatures in March and April. This summer ended up being the driest on record. We went for WEEKS without rain. (When I first came to BC to visit my sweetheart back in 1989, it rained at least once, every day during the summer.) Local creeks 
were so shallow I saw dead adult salmon stranded on the shore. Autumn came with a vengeance though, bringing high winds and heavy rain that saturated the ground. A couple of weeks ago, the remnants of a typhoon slammed into the west coast, bringing 800 mm of rainfall within a 24 hour period, just over the ridgeline from where we live. We've had serious flooding, property damage and drowning deaths in our area. Over the past couple of days, however, a mass of outflowing arctic air has dropped the temperatures precipitously. The wet ground crusted into ice. A frontal system from the Gulf of Alaska brought about 15 cm of very wet snow that fell on the ice and made driving so treacherous, the municipality actually closed the two roads that lead uphill to our neighborhood. (These have since been re-opened.) We've not seen the 
snowplow because the crews are so busy trying to keep the major routes clear. In the meantime, people are struggling to get their machines uphill, and several have simply parked on the sides of the roads and walked home. (What a unique concept!) Our Toyota has traction control, which I've learned makes the car utterly useless once the wheels start spinning. It's not bad on compact snow, but anything deeper than the bottom of its rims renders the vehicle immobile pretty quickly. In order to get my sweetheart to work this morning, I had to chip ice away from the front wheels and pour warm water around them to melt the ice underneath. What this kind of weather pattern illustrates is that the balance of temperatures and precipitation is changing. We've set several records for rain, heat, drought and snowfall in 
a single year. The overheated atmosphere is releasing its energy with increasing ferocity, and unless we take SERIOUS action soon, I think we're going to be in for a very wild ride in the near future.robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/



___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] The Great Fence of America

2006-11-27 Thread Fred Finch


I would hope that Canada annexes Minnesota before building the fence!

On 11/27/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


You'd think the Canadians would put up their own fence!

robert and benita rabello wrote:

Fred Oliff wrote:



Who gets riich when they build this new fence?




Some company affiliated with congressmen and senators.



  And is there going to be one on the northern borders as well?




Yes.  This has been a topic of derision among people in BC for the
last several weeks.  I have a newspaper cartoon that shows Mr. Bush
extoling the virtues of America's border with Canada.  He's shouting
through a megaphone from the top of a barbed wire topped fence, complete
with security cameras and a mine field.  An astonished Canadian, walking
a dog, approaches the US border to hear Mr. Bush say:

I cherish the unique and special relationship we have between our
two countries.  Now, keep your hands where I can see them and step away
from the wall!




Fences are meant to keep people/animals in or keep people/animals
out?  Just asking...




They're supposed to protect America from all those terrorists
invading from Canada that the US Customs agency can't seem to screen at
the border, despite all the harassment they give to our allies and
friends.



I thought Al Gore's comment in An Inconvenient Truth about terrorism
vs the environment (and I cannot recall the exact words), was very
telling of the present plight we all face. Which, after all, is easier
to fix?  Admitting there is a problem (has been difficult), awareness
that there is a problem is easy (maybe not AS easy) but taking action
(on the environment) is just not very popular.  No video games were
made/sold in the resolution of global climate change (warming).




Dealing with the climate issue will have an indirect consequence of
significantly reducing our need to project power into the Persian Gulf
to defend oil supplies.  That would go a long way toward ameliorating
the hostility towards us that has been brewing in that region for the
past fifty years or so.  The other side of the equation, however, will
involve solving the Palestinian issue.

Of course, I've been talking this way for thirty years now and no
one seems willing to listen.  My mother thinks we should bomb the rest
of the planet, calls my wife an ignorant foreigner (for suggesting
that the US spend less money on defense and more on infrastructure and
a social safety net) and told me to go to hell for suggesting that
people who claim to be Christians should actually reflect a Christ-like
attitude.  Sadly, this kind of mentality is common enough among American
citizens that no substantive policy changes will ever occur.

robert luis rabello
The Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/





___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?

2006-11-15 Thread Fred Oliff

nothing unites the ignorant masses like a common hatred;
the corollary is, if you want people to rise up against YOUR enemy, only tell them what you want them to know, and that is only enough to get them to also hate your enemy.
we're all in this together. regardless of faith.

From:Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Allah or Jesus?Date:Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:38:51 -0800 (PST)

The Bible is full of tales of violence. Islam is basically wherethe Christian world was a century ago re the rights of women etc. so we shoulnt be toffee nosed and oh so righteous. Help your brother and sister to achieve more enlightenment and stop throwing stones when you live in a glass house.

KirkZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

On 11/15/06, Bobby Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I can tell from the responses that none of the people here have read any ofthe Koran. There is a particular passage known as the "Sword Passage" thatpromotes violence against all infidels, particularly jews. Even the foremost experts on Islam are beginning to see that it is a religion of violence.
Is Islam a religion of violence, or is the violence related to the fact that a large portion of the world's islam population is in opressed third world countries where there is little hope of changing their government (or the US government) that is opressing them and people turn to religion instead, in this case Islam, picking and choosing the portions of it that help them resist their opression, which are often the violent portions. My impression of christianity is that it is a particularly violent religion as well. At least the way many so called christians choose to practice it. I have had christians tell me how good GWB is and how they know he's a good born again christian. So either they're wrong, or christianity too has a place for extreme violence as well. And, how about all of the "family values" preachers who quote bible
passages that are then used to support beating gay people to death. Or the KKK who purport to be following good christian teachings too. I always thought that Jesus preached tolerance and forgiveness, but this doesn't seem to be too in vogue in many christians.

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Sponsored LinkMortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo -
Calculate new house payment

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

[Biofuel] Cambodian Rail Speeder

2006-11-02 Thread Fred Finch

Here is one of the best uses for small rail that I have ever stumbled across. Lightweight effecient and (somewhat) portable. Mass transit for the masses!
http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/Slap a small diesel on the speeder and you have a workable transportation solution that solves many problems.fred
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra

2006-11-02 Thread Fred Oliff

The only use I have for it is dissolving jellyfish spines, and no I do not currently have any of those. So I do not need for you to urinate on my leg thanks, I can do that fine myself.

From:"JAMES PHELPS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate:Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:12:46 -0700Bob,While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator.Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere.;^)JimFrom: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption ofyour urine is medically beneficial.Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtmlOnce during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me "Mr. Thakkar, you aretalking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise withit. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the
thirdone is loose and is on the verge of going." I asked him, "How long you you rinse your mouth withurine?" His reply was "for a minute or two". The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. Onehas to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gumsand would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become allright with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched theefficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types.D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to
transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is
that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine
there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing
all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraHi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: "Show me the data!" Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of
many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day.Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day.The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the "imaginal cells" appearing.I have no idea what we
might all say,

Re: [Biofuel] Is there any diesel powered bicycles?

2006-10-17 Thread Fred Finch

Near as I can tell there are no diesel bicycles or mopeds that are in production.That said, there are several homebuilt motorcycles and scooters that work well.Look here, 
http://www.peace65.freeserve.co.uk/Pictures/dorsett.htmI like the diesel scooter towards the bottom of the page.fredOn 10/16/06, ItalysBadBoy
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello all,Does anyone know of any diesel powered bicycles? Any motors you know of that could be used for a bicycle? I am interested in a motor from 1-2 horsepower.Thanks for any help,IBB
.$  $  $  $LARRY KING LIVEAired May 30, 2005 - 21:00 CNN Transcripts/0505/30/lkl.01.htmlKING: When do we leave? You expect it in your administration?
D. CHENEY: I do.KING: It's not going to be a 10-year event?D. CHENEY: No. ... But I think the level of activity that we see today, from a military standpoint, I think will clearly decline. I think they're 
in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.http://zfacts.com/p/87.html$  $  $  $
 
		 All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Some composting

2006-10-16 Thread Fred Finch

Hi Dave, Keith is right, coffee grounds work great. I assume that you are on campus, right? Go to the student food services (feedlot) and ask them for a bunch of coffee grounds filters and all. You will get a funny look but it is perfect for compost.
BTW, I was down there visiting my niece last weekend (the 7th.) St. Marys is a beautiful campus.fredOn 10/15/06, Keith Addison
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:So, I have an abundance of leaves (leafs to those in Canada!haha).
Anyway, I would like to do some small scale, indoor composting(aerobic).I was reading some notes on JTF but didn't seem to findthe information of nitrogen ratio for the Household Compost
Activator.I would like to use mostly leaves and some vegie scrapsalong with peat moss.But, how much urine to add?I'm looking atthe 20 gallon container size.Thanks,-dave
Hello DaveDo Canadians really say leafs? I thought everybody said leaves.Anyway, these are autumn leaves, dropped by the trees for the winter?In which case they don't contain very much by way of nutrients, the
tree extracts most of it before dropping them. Lots of carbon, notmuch N. Tree leaves aren't too easy to compost anyway, they have awaxy coating that doesn't encourage breakdown and they tend to pack,cutting off the air supply. Peat moss also has lots of carbon and not
much N. Veggie scraps will have more N and less C, but it looks likeyou need to add a lot of N. The problem with adding it in the form ofHCA is that you're also adding a lot of water that way, and ifthere's too much water it will clog up and go anaerobic. So I'm not
very hopeful about that mixture.The volume isn't such a problem, bigger is easier, but I did sometest compost in a 3-gallon pot the other day, it hit 60 deg C (140deg F) and composted well. 20 gallons should be fine.
For the mix, try adding something dry and crumbly with lots of N -too much N won't hurt, the excess will be driven off (ammonia) untilit hits the right ratio; too little N and it won't heat up properly
(which is also the result of too much water or poor air supply). Drycoffee grounds would be a suitable source of N, but there are manyothers. Then add urine until it's wet enough: if you ball some up inyour fist it should stay in a ball when you let go but should crumble
up easily again, not pack together. It works best with a good airsupply from underneath.Probably you'll have to tinker with it a bit before you get a feelfor it, but please persevere, don't be discouraged, it's a real
thrill the first time your compost gets hot, and it's about theearth-friendliest thing you can do. IMHO.Good luck, keep posting, lots of composters here to offer their help.BestKeith
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Happy Thanksgiving everybody

2006-10-09 Thread Fred Finch

More like lost Catalan day...But that can be debated...On 10/9/06, Paul S Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:Happy Thanksgiving! Many thanks to all your contributions, as well!!!
As for us poor Americans, it is lost Italian/Spaniard Day.On 10/6/06, robert and benita rabello
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Joe Street wrote:
Enjoy the long weekend.I'm STILL not used to Thanksgiving in October . . .It doesn't seemright!But thank you for the well wishes!robert luis rabelloThe Edge of Justice
Adventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org

http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
-- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchThe genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them which we are missing. - Gamal Abdel Nasser

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Biofuels, not pictures of bush

2006-10-05 Thread Fred Finch

He's giving Fred's a bad name!!fredOn 10/5/06, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



  
  


Ok Fred;

I'll give you 4,000,000. 4,000,000 kicks in the A** that is! Big
business is part of the problem man not the solution. Small is
beutiful get it?
It's got to be local in order to be sustainable. Or haven't you benn
paying attention?

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  What does Billionairesforbush have to do with Biofuels? I have a plan for a 1.5 million gallon per year ethanol plantthe total funding need is 4,000,000I will give 51% equity to an investorplease send email address to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy of the plan.  
  
From: D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2006/10/05 Thu AM 02:45:16 EDT
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Subject: [Biofuel] Billionaires for Bush picture gallery

http://www.billionairesforbush.com/photos.php


  
  ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org

http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org


Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


  




___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Closing Down the Garden

2006-10-02 Thread Fred Finch

Is it just me, or is Weaver missing from the conversation?On 10/1/06, robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:Doug Foskey wrote:Dosen't it make the milk taste in the morning??
Does your milk have a tongue???(Two can play that game!)robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca
Ranger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Closing Down the Garden

2006-10-01 Thread Fred Finch

Did you show your guests the most personal way to apply your organic compost enhancement liquid?My garden is working well also. I do not tell my Father-in-law about the
organic compost enhancement liquid. He might have a heartattack on the spot if he knew.fredOn 10/1/06, robert and benita rabello
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello Everyone!

It's been an interesting year in our garden. We're getting more
and more produce each season, and it's taking less and less work to
increase the yields. This summer was very hot, but we used less water
than we've used in the past--to the likely detriment of squash and
pumpkins that didn't grow as well as we've seen before. We've got so
many tomatoes that my sweetheart has taken to making sauce out of
them. (I liken eating tomatoes to biting into a human lip, but the
rest of the people in my family really like them, and my eldest son
eats them like apples.)

As we've been harvesting (more potatoes than we can possibly eat,
and green beans so plentiful we've resorted to giving them away), I've
been shredding and composting the plant material, and dumping finished
compost around my trees again. (I've got the power shredder running
properly now. It starts easily and isn't burning as much fuel as had
been the case in the past.) In another week or so I should have enough
finished compost to complete the work with my trees, and any residual
compost I have can go in the vegetable beds. This week I intend to get
several loads of well-rotted barn litter to spread on my garden for the
winter.

We have family friends who live in Kamloops, roughly two and a half
hours northeast of where we are. It's hot and dry there--perfect for
growing fruit and vegetables without the pest problems we face near the
coast, where it's wetter and milder. These people are elderly, have
been growing plants for longer than I've been alive, and they've
watched our progress with interest as we've transformed the clay muck
around our house into a thriving and verdant garden.

The patriarch of this Kamloops family examined our fruit trees and
praised me up and down for the health and vigor of our trees. This
year's dry summer, coupled with stronger trees and steadily improving
soil, enabled the trees to fight off most of the aphid infestation
that's plagued us. We've also seen an increase in predatory activity
among wasps and lady beetles, and for the first time on this property,
we had plums on our trees! (And oh, they were sweet!!!)
He helped me with pruning and gave me some advice on how to deal with
our apple and cherry trees.

The matriarch, however, is an avid chemical gardener. She kept
telling my sweetheart that we need to apply fertilizer to our trees and
vegetables. Compost is not enough! she kept saying. A little bit
later, as we wandered down to my compost pile, however, the patriarch
gazed in astonishment at the HUGE pile of compost I'm generating right
now. It's warm, moist and has a sweet aroma to it. When I told him
that I've only been using trimmings, weeds and harvested plant stalks
that actually grow on my property, coupled with kitchen scraps and
bunny litter, he was astonished. He told me he's NEVER been able to
make good compost.

Ah, so THAT'S why the revered lady insists on chemicals!

I told him that he needs to shred his plant material, and gave him
the secret of using organic compost enhancement liquid. My
sweetheart LOVES to watch people's reactions when I tell them how this
works . . .

I hope the rest of you biofuelers in the northern hemisphere have
enjoyed the fruits of success this season. For you who live on the
other side of the equator, may your gardens grow abundantly this year!

robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] 2 new additions

2006-09-23 Thread Fred Finch

Jason, My brother and his wife had twins in May. They went from double teaming my niece to running a Zone defense. The problem with a zone defense is that one always gets through. Good Luck with the twins, Man on Man defense works well.
fredssively loud)twin sons Ryken and Xavier were born. katie is healthy, albeit tired, and
the boys are on a steady track to coming home next week. (theyre in thenursery until they can regulate their own body temperatures)You are doubly blessed!May you find wisdom and contentment in
fatherhood!robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mindhttp://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] overly sensitive etc

2006-09-14 Thread Fred Finch

On 9/13/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You're a noble man Fred. Sorry to say the chances of it happeningwould have been zilch. Would have been because it's too late forthat, it went too far. I doubt an apology would have been acceptable
anyway.RegardsKeithI like to think that given a chance he might have come around. Alas, the decision has been made.This is the second Mensa clown that stumbled to the group only to make an ass out of himself. Why is that? Is there a requirement that you have to be heartless and souless to become a member? 
Perhaps they are too smart for their own good,fredOn 9/13/06, Thor Burfine mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I just have to say, I think its rather funny that my personal beliefs can
cause such a shit storm-Original Message-From:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
lelists.org[mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]biofuel-bounces@
sustainablelists.org] On Behalf Of David PenfoldSent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:43 AMTo: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] overly sensitive etcThor,it's not overly sensitive to dislike insinuations that you would beperfectly happy to use nuclear bombs on a whole region in order to get your
oil.You're a small-minded idiot.Message: 9 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 08:58:24 -0700 From: Thor Burfine mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ced72aa8928b4ffdb[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1The shit is stired, the tempers are up, the overly sensitive
 politicly correct are offended  My work is done     From: bob allen
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:44 AM To: mailto:
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney  so mensa is a society for the insensitive, even cruel?
  Thor Burfine wrote:   Actually, Mensa I just don't give a shi.. 
      *From*: Fred Finch   *Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:54 AM   *To*: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
biofuel@sustainablelists.org   *Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] Disney And apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers
   as well... On 9/13/06, *Thor Burfine*  wrote: Well I will admit, I have the subtlety of a sledgehammer
       *From*: Joe Street   
   *Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:25 AM *To*: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
biofuel@sustainablelists.org   *Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] Disney   This offends me. Perhaps the sand around your loved ones can be   turned to glass as well.
 Thor Burfine wrote: snip My feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass  
  snip___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Disney

And apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers as well...On 9/13/06, Thor Burfine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
Well I will admit, I have the subtlety of a sledgehammer



		
		

From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:25 AMTo: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney
		
		This offends me. Perhaps the sand around your loved ones can be turned to glass as well.Thor Burfine wrote:snip
My feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass


___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Disney

I doubt it.and I do give a shit! (apologies to the list)On 9/13/06, Thor Burfine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

		Actually, MensaI just don't give a shi..
		

From: Fred Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:54 AMTo: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney
		
		And apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers as well...On 9/13/06, Thor Burfine
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
Well I will admit, I have the subtlety of a sledgehammer
From: Joe Street 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:25 AMTo: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] DisneyThis offends me. Perhaps the sand around your loved ones can be turned to glass as well.Thor Burfine wrote:
snip My feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass
___Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Disney

I take it then that you are going to unsubscribe from the list?On 9/13/06, Thor Burfine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

		The shit is stired, the tempers are up, the overly sensitive politicly correct are offendedMy work is done
		

From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent
: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:44 AMTo: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney
		
		so mensa is a society for the insensitive, even cruel?Thor Burfine wrote: Actually, Mensa  I just don't give a shi.. 
  *From*: Fred Finch  *Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:54 AM *To*: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] Disney  And apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers as 
 well...  On 9/13/06, *Thor Burfine*  wrote:Well I will admit, I have the subtlety of a sledgehammer   
   *From*: Joe Street   *Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:25 AM 
 *To*: biofuel@sustainablelists.org  *Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] Disney
   This offends me. Perhaps the sand around your loved ones can be turned to glass as well.  Thor Burfine wrote:  snip My feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass
___ Biofuel mailing list 
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org  
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org   Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/     ___
 Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org  Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- --Bob Allen,
http://ozarker.org/bob---The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moraljustification for selfishness JKG ___
Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Disney

Useless words to live by. On 9/13/06, Thor Burfine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

		noI find many of the topics here insitful and usefulI had a professor once tell meIf you are offended, then its your fault.If you offend me, then its my fault
I live by that. 
		

From: Fred Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:36 AM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney

		
		I take it then that you are going to unsubscribe from the list?On 9/13/06, 
Thor Burfine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
The shit is stired, the tempers are up, the overly sensitive politicly correct are offendedMy work is done
From: bob allen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent : Wednesday, September 13, 2006 8:44 AM
To: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Disneyso mensa is a society for the insensitive, even cruel?
Thor Burfine wrote: Actually, Mensa  I just don't give a shi..   *From*: Fred Finch 
 *Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:54 AM *To*: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] Disney  And apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers as  well... 
 On 9/13/06, *Thor Burfine*  wrote:Well I will admit, I have the subtlety of a sledgehammer 
 *From*: Joe Street   *Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:25 AM  *To*: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] DisneyThis offends me. Perhaps the sand around your loved ones can be
 turned to glass as well.  Thor Burfine wrote:  snip My feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass ___
 Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
   Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/     ___ 
 Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org  Biofuel at Journey to Forever: 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- --Bob Allen,
 http://ozarker.org/bob---
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moraljustification for selfishness JKG 
___ Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org 
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org 
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): 
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] Disney

Hi Weaver (Redler), I think you missed one of the posts done by our friend Thor.He said, Well
I will admit, I have the subtlety of a sledgehammer and I don not
believe in being politically correct, so if I offend you, ohh well not
my problemTo which I replied, And apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers aswell...Hope this clears this up,fred
On 9/13/06, Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think there's some confusion - I thought Thor was calling Fred Mensasarcastically, as Fred said the notion espoused by Thor offended him; Iagreed with Fred.My feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass -
pretty offensive.Fed responded:And apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers aswell...So I suggested Thor join Densa...So Fredbob allen wrote:
so mensa is a society for the insensitive, even cruel?Thor Burfine wrote:Actually, MensaI just don't give a shi..
*From*: Fred Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]*Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:54 AM*To*: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org*Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] DisneyAnd apparently you have the intelligence of a box of sledgehammers aswell...On 9/13/06, *Thor Burfine* 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well I will admit, I have the subtlety of a sledgehammer
*From*: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]*Sent*: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 7:25 AM*To*: 
biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org*Subject*: Re: [Biofuel] DisneyThis offends me.Perhaps the sand around your loved ones can be
turned to glass as well.Thor Burfine wrote:snipMy feeling on the middle east... we can drill for oil through glass
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
 mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org

Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] overly sensitive etc