date:20201030

Oh yes, private streets are always a problem. In fact, I feel uncomfortable 
even walking down  dead end roads to survey, and so I avoid them. Usually I 
just record the first number, then guess the rest of the numbers on dead end 
streets.

NLS definately would be better.

That being said, who should be contacted to create a tasking manager for this?
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30 Oct 2020, 22:09 by scolebou...@joda.org:

> Having surveyed thousands of addresses in SW London, I've done a quick
> compare and it looks pretty good to me. Sure there are the odd case
> here and there where buildings have changed, but for the many parts of
> London with Victorian to 1930s housing stock, this will be mostly
> accurate. Just comparing the general order from low to high odds/evens
> is useful. Plus for hard to access private streets its great. As a
> warning though, it does not align perfectly with the Bing offset I'm
> using.
>
> Is there anyone with "authority" that can state this is OK to use, and
> what source tag to use?
>
> Stephen
>
>
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 18:48, Mark Goodge  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:
>> >
>> > It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967
>> > in NLS is available freely.
>> >
>> > What are its licensing terms?
>> >
>> > "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license"
>>
>> It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving
>> data from it.
>>
>> I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for
>> wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey.
>> House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets
>> are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number
>> in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still
>> the same.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Stephen Colebourne

Having surveyed thousands of addresses in SW London, I've done a quick
compare and it looks pretty good to me. Sure there are the odd case
here and there where buildings have changed, but for the many parts of
London with Victorian to 1930s housing stock, this will be mostly
accurate. Just comparing the general order from low to high odds/evens
is useful. Plus for hard to access private streets its great. As a
warning though, it does not align perfectly with the Bing offset I'm
using.

Is there anyone with "authority" that can state this is OK to use, and
what source tag to use?

Stephen

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 18:48, Mark Goodge  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:
> >
> > It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967
> > in NLS is available freely.
> >
> > What are its licensing terms?
> >
> > "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license"
>
> It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving
> data from it.
>
> I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for
> wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey.
> House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets
> are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number
> in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still
> the same.
>
> Mark
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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[OSM-talk-fr] Questions sur les bouches de métro franciliennes

2020-10-30 Thread Brice


Bonsoir,

Je reprends un vieux sujet de Sébastien Hinderer relatif à la navigation 
via les bouches de métro.



Question à tous :

Je viens de compléter la station Belleville 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/243493845) qui a maintenant 3 
bouches supplémentaires mais, particularité, bouches qui desservent 
directement les quais de la ligne 11, du coup je ne sais pas trop si je 
dois les inclure dans la relation Belleville ligne 2 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/965971) la circulation étant 
possible jusqu'aux quais de la ligne 2 mais bien moins pratique que 
d'emprunter les autres bouches menant à la salle d'accès 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/865469930) desservant les deux lignes.



Question à Sébastien :

Tu avais identifié 62 bouches orphelines et 118 bouches non nommées en 
févier dernier, en reste t'il encore qui seraient à compléter ?



Brice.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?


One of the "holes" contains the town of Kidderminster.

Looking at it on the full 25" map, that sheet is from the 1921 revision, 
the surrounding sheets are from the 1901 revision:



https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17=52.38277=-2.24342=168=7

Which may explain the holey map, as a record of which revision is where. 
Or not.


Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?

Considering it's called "holes map" I think it is meant to have the gaps.
-- 
30 Oct 2020, 20:52 by mar...@templot.com:

> On 30/10/2020 20:34, ipswichmap...@tutanota.com wrote:
>
>> If this is referring to what I posted earlier, then you have chosen a 
>> different map to what I linked.
>>
>
> Hi,
>
> No it's a separate issue. I was browsing the NLS site when Firefox threw an 
> error. I clicked "Try again" and the holey map appeared. It seems to be an 
> extract from the normal 25" georeferenced map, but to what end I can't fathom.
>
> cheers,
>
> Martin.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?


On 30/10/2020 20:34, ipswichmap...@tutanota.com wrote:

If this is referring to what I posted earlier, then you have chosen a different 
map to what I linked.


Hi,

No it's a separate issue. I was browsing the NLS site when Firefox threw 
an error. I clicked "Try again" and the holey map appeared. It seems to 
be an extract from the normal 25" georeferenced map, but to what end I 
can't fathom.


cheers,

Martin.

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[OSM-talk-be] opendata for cemetery in Namur

2020-10-30 Thread DJ_frombelgium



The city of Namur as publish a map of every grave in her cemetery


in french 
https://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/namur/detail_namur-une-cartographie-detaillee-des-35-000-sepultures-namuroises?id=10619526


https://www.namur.be/fr/ma-ville/amenagement-du-territoire/cartographie/cartographie-en-ligne/cimetieres-en-ligne

Data are here 
https://data.namur.be/explore/dataset/namur-cimetieres/custom/?disjunctive.cimetiere_vegetal

in CC-BY

Every grave (35.000) are draw with a reference number and the family 
name of people inside.


In OSM, there a page for grave 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cemetery%3Dgrave



Could i import the data in OSM ?

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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

How do you reply to an email that wasn't sent to your inbox and still keep the 
thread structure?
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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Mark Goodge




On 30/10/2020 20:10, ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB wrote:

Also, the messages by "Mark Goodge" and "Ken Kilfedder" (spiregrain) 
didn't show up in my email. Why is this? (Is it because their "reply 
all" didn't include my address by mistake?) I'm still getting used to 
mailing lists.


I didn't do a "reply all". I did a "reply list". That's how lists are 
supposed to work! You'll see my reply as part of the normal list 
traffic, not as a direct reply to you.


The https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/ website sorts the mails 
into "threads". How does it which email goes under which thread? 
Currently, when I hit "reply all" it shows in the archive my email 
underneath the right thread. I am assuming it know based on who I sent 
the email to. However, if the same person were to reply twice to my 
email, and then I replied to one of their emails, how would the 
archiving system know which email I replied to?


The archives will include anything that has the address 
'talk-gb@openstreetmap.org' in the To or CC lines (not sure about Bcc, 
and I can't be bothered to check!). But all list messages should, as a 
general rule, be replied to on-list - that is, by sending your reply to 
the list address, not the address of the sender. You should only reply 
directly to the sender if you need to contact them off-list.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?

If this is referring to what I posted earlier, then you have chosen a different 
map to what I linked.

Here is the London grid map displayed using what you did:

https://geo.nls.uk/mapdata3/os/ldn_tile/#ldn_nat_grid/ol3

On the right, it shows background imagery. "OpenLayers3" in a map of OSM, 
although you can display this NLS imagery over google maps, or leaflet, or 
"google maps API".

Don't know what the "holes map" which you linked was however. It doesn't show 
house numbers but seems to have more coverage.
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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

Ok, it seems like this one didn't show up under the right thread. I moved the 
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org to the CC section and emailed m...@good-stuff.co.uk 
directly, but it didn't show up under that thread. The way I originally did it 
is by clicking on the email in the archive, which loads a mailto link, however 
it only loads talk-gb@openstreetmap.org . How do you respond to threads that 
you haven't been emailed properly?

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30 Oct 2020, 20:17 by ipswichmap...@tutanota.com:

> This is why I think that a tasking manager is good. Firstly, it is not 
> exactly "wholesale" in the sense that a lot of data with little checking. 
> Every square is mapped and then validated as well. 
>
> Secondly, this is why it is imperative to check if the buildings still exist 
> on Bing. If they do, almost certainly the housenumbers haven't changed. (As 
> mentioned by spiregrain). If the buildings have changed, then you can mark a 
> square as "bad imagery", making the tasking manager even more useful (so that 
> you can discern where the imagery is accurate and where it isn't).
>
> 
>
> Mark wrote:
>
> It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving data 
> from it.I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for 
> wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. House 
> numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets are renamed 
> or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number in the 1950s is 
> the same number it is now, even if the building is still the same.
>
> Mark 
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?

2020-10-30 Thread Adam Snape

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, 18:53 Jez Nicholson,  wrote:

> How many holes in Blackburn, Lancashire?
>

There's Tockholes for one https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/29020280

>
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[Talk-it] part-time traffic signals

2020-10-30 Thread Volker Schmidt

In alcuni posti abbiamo semafori part-time. Mi vengono in mente due casi:

   - un incrocio con tram: si accende solo quando arriva un tram
   - uscita pompieri: lampeggiante, diventa rosso quando escono i pompieri

come si fa?
Volker
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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

This is why I think that a tasking manager is good. Firstly, it is not exactly 
"wholesale" in the sense that a lot of data with little checking. Every square 
is mapped and then validated as well. 

Secondly, this is why it is imperative to check if the buildings still exist on 
Bing. If they do, almost certainly the housenumbers haven't changed. (As 
mentioned by spiregrain). If the buildings have changed, then you can mark a 
square as "bad imagery", making the tasking manager even more useful (so that 
you can discern where the imagery is accurate and where it isn't).



Mark wrote:

It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving data 
from it.I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for 
wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. House 
numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets are renamed or 
rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number in the 1950s is the 
same number it is now, even if the building is still the same.

Mark
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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

I have already posted this on reddit, and people brought up this issue there 
too:

https://old.reddit.com/r/openstreetmap/comments/jk8gdr/high_quality_imagery_of_buildings_and/gahyzi
 


Also, the messages by "Mark Goodge" and "Ken Kilfedder" (spiregrain) didn't 
show up in my email. Why is this? (Is it because their "reply all" didn't 
include my address by mistake?) I'm still getting used to mailing lists.

The https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/ website sorts the mails into 
"threads". How does it which email goes under which thread? Currently, when I 
hit "reply all" it shows in the archive my email underneath the right thread. I 
am assuming it know based on who I sent the email to. However, if the same 
person were to reply twice to my email, and then I replied to one of their 
emails, how would the archiving system know which email I replied to?

30 Oct 2020, 18:37 by matkoni...@tutanota.com:

>
>
>
> Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by > talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> :
>
>> It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 in NLS 
>> is available freely.
>>
> What are its licensing terms?
>
> "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license"
>
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

Sorry, I think my last message didn't get through because I didn't "reply all". 
(So it didn't show up in the archives). I'm still getting using to this 
"mailing lists" system.

Here is the NLS map:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=6=55.25673=-5.29584=170=1
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30 Oct 2020, 15:47 by davefoxfa...@btinternet.com:

>
>
> On 30/10/2020 15:28, ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 in NLS 
>> is available freely.
>>
>
> Link to this on NLS?
>
> DaveF
>

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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Ken Kilfedder

I've made extensive use of these tiles for numbering tasks in London E15 and 
E7.  But you are right that more up to date material is needed.  Bing gives me 
the more modern building outlines,  and I then do some spot checks of the 
NLS-sourced housenumbers when I survey the newer buildings.

But I don't recall any instances where NLS was 'wrong' for buildings that are 
still standing.  Maybe the odd 45 vs 45a etc.

---
https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
spiregrain_...@ksglp.org.uk

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 6:47 PM, Mark Goodge wrote:
> 
> 
> On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:
> > 
> > It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967
> > in NLS is available freely.
> > 
> > What are its licensing terms?
> > 
> > "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license"
> 
> It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving 
> data from it.
> 
> I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for 
> wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. 
> House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets 
> are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number 
> in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still 
> the same.
> 
> Mark
> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?

2020-10-30 Thread Jez Nicholson

How many holes in Blackburn, Lancashire?

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, 18:36 Martin Wynne,  wrote:

> p.s. I've now discovered an overlay slider top-right which makes a bit
> more sense.
>
> The slider is almost invisible over the map in Firefox.
>
> Martin.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Mark Goodge




On 30/10/2020 18:37, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:




Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:

It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967
in NLS is available freely.

What are its licensing terms?

"available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license"


It's out of copyright, so there aren't any licensing issues in deriving 
data from it.


I would, though, be a little reluctant to use it as a basis for 
wholesale numbering without any supporting local knowledge or survey. 
House numbers can, and sometimes do, change, particularly when streets 
are renamed or rebuilt. So you can't be 100% certain that a house number 
in the 1950s is the same number it is now, even if the building is still 
the same.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Russ Garrett

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 18:38, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB
 wrote:
> What are its licensing terms?
>
> "available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license"

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Library_of_Scotland

NLS maps (except for the ones where the copyright of the scans lies
with other parties, which does not seem to be the case in this
instance) are acceptable for use in OSM.

-- 
Russ Garrett
r...@garrett.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB




Oct 30, 2020, 16:28 by talk-gb@openstreetmap.org:

> It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 in NLS is 
> available freely.
>
What are its licensing terms?

"available freely" does not mean "compatible with OSM license"

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Re: [OSM-talk] id Editor auto-converts split polygons into MP relation

2020-10-30 Thread Mateusz Konieczny via talk




Oct 30, 2020, 16:33 by talk@openstreetmap.org:

> A split polygon with only an outer MP is not an "area".
>
It is a valid multipolygon representing an area.

A bit pointless multipolygon and maybe something that
should be converted to version not
using relation, but it is a valid tagging. 

> There's a clue in the name 'MultiPolygon' there has to be more than one.
>
Strictly speaking it means that it CAN have more than one part.

> Splitting into two serves no purpose, adds no quality.
>
It does not make it invalid

> Incomplete MP relations are not beneficial to OSM quality.
>
MP with single outer  and 0 inners is not invalid.


(this does not make it desired and preferable, but in this
case accusing iD of producing invalid relations is
baseless and invalid)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?

p.s. I've now discovered an overlay slider top-right which makes a bit 
more sense.


The slider is almost invisible over the map in Firefox.

Martin.

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[OSM-talk-fr] MOOC sur l'Intelligence artificielle

2020-10-30 Thread Yves P.

Bonsoir,

Pour ceux qui veulent comprendre la détection de visages sur des photos, de 
bâtiments, de routes sur des orthophotos… ces MOOCs sont fait pour vous :

Intelligence Artificielle : mode d’emploi ! 
 (grand 
public)
Deep Learning 


__
Yves

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Re: [talk-cz] Podivne tagy v Mlade Boleslavi

2020-10-30 Thread Jan Martinec

To bohužel musí autoři, protože nikdo jiný neví, co tam mělo být...

HPM

Dne pá 30. 10. 2020 19:08 uživatel Jan Macura  napsal:

> Ahoj
>
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 16:23, Jan Martinec  wrote:
>
>> Prý fixnuto před dvěma dny, v aktuální verzi:
>>
>> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8130
>
>
> To je bezva. Ještě by to chtělo opravit ty chybně označené prvky... :-/
> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Zyp
>
> H.
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[Talk-GB] Holes in modern England?


Anyone care to explain what's going on here:


https://geo.nls.uk/mapdata3/os/25_inch/holes_england/#holes_england_new/ol3

It displays the OSM basic map (without attribution), with some random 
blank patches (see for example a large area north-west of Oxford).


If you zoom in on the blank patches, they turn out to contain historic 
25"/mile mapping from the NLS.


Puzzled.

Martin.

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Re: [talk-cz] Podivne tagy v Mlade Boleslavi

2020-10-30 Thread Jan Macura

Ahoj

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 16:23, Jan Martinec  wrote:

> Prý fixnuto před dvěma dny, v aktuální verzi:
>
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8130

To je bezva. Ještě by to chtělo opravit ty chybně označené prvky... :-/
https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Zyp

H.
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Re: [OSM-talk] id Editor auto-converts split polygons into MP relation

2020-10-30 Thread Simon Poole



Am 30.10.2020 um 16:33 schrieb Dave F:



But anyway... Point slit stands: Why did iD take this authoritarian 
position.
Already pointed this out n-times now: because it synthesizes an area 
object type.



As has been noted other, editors don't make this assumption.


Other editors don't try to synthesize an area type.



A split polygon with only an outer MP is not an "area".


It is, you are really totally mistaken on this. Particularly if you are 
reusing ways that are parts of other MPs it is quite common to have an 
MP with a sole outer ring composed of multiple ways (aka a "split 
polygon"). That it is typically unnecessary in the case of a building 
doesn't make it invalid.


Simon





The correct solution to split polygons with tags on the ways is to 
rejoin those ways, not create a MP.



As I pointed out, the question is -when- to rejoin those ways.


As I pointed out, that's for the contributor to decide, not the editor.


 A MP with only one* outer is invalid.


Nope.


There's a clue in the name 'MultiPolygon' there has to be more than one.
Splitting into two serves no purpose, adds no quality. Entropy isn't 
beneficial for the OSM database.


Incomplete MP relations are not beneficial to OSM quality.

DaveF


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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Russ Garrett

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 15:49, Dave F via Talk-GB
 wrote:
> Link to this on NLS?

I think it's the "OS 1:1,250/1:2500 1944-1969" layer:
https://maps.nls.uk/os/national-grid/

-- 
Russ Garrett
r...@garrett.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

2020-10-30 Thread Dave F via Talk-GB




On 30/10/2020 15:28, ipswichmapper--- via Talk-GB wrote:

Hello,
It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 in 
NLS is available freely.


Link to this on NLS?

DaveF

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Re: [OSM-talk] id Editor auto-converts split polygons into MP relation

2020-10-30 Thread Dave F via talk


On 29/10/2020 06:41, Simon Poole wrote:

Am 29.10.2020 um 00:17 schrieb Dave F:
iD editor attracts a hell of a lot of "WTFs", doesn't it? I mean, 
even its most ardent fan must occasionally raise a Roger Moore eyebrow.


bhuousel has taken the presumptive decision that the contributor's 
desired end result will always be a MP relation. This is wrong, plain 
& simple (& quite arrogant). iD editor should provide tools to allow 
contributors to make their own decisions as easily as possible & not 
take them on their behalf.


I'm not sure why you believe Bryan has or had anything to do with that 
specific design decision, but he didn't, that happened a substantial 
time before he had any formal involvement.




Because he was the only one to reply to github queries (2018) on this 
subject. He closed the query & he talks in the first person: "I'm OK 
with this being hard to do in iD."


But anyway... Point slit stands: Why did iD take this authoritarian 
position.



As has been noted other, editors don't make this assumption.


Other editors don't try to synthesize an area type.



A split polygon with only an outer MP is not an "area".



The correct solution to split polygons with tags on the ways is to 
rejoin those ways, not create a MP.



As I pointed out, the question is -when- to rejoin those ways.


As I pointed out, that's for the contributor to decide, not the editor.


 A MP with only one* outer is invalid.


Nope.


There's a clue in the name 'MultiPolygon' there has to be more than one.
Splitting into two serves no purpose, adds no quality. Entropy isn't 
beneficial for the OSM database.


Incomplete MP relations are not beneficial to OSM quality.

DaveF

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[Talk-GB] High quality NLS imagery of buildings and HOUSENUMBERS (!) available in London (and Scotland). Create a tasking manger to add this?

Hello,

As anyone mapping in the UK knows, in most areas housenumber coverage is
abysmal. For example, germany has 14 million housenumbers, USA has 10 million
and the UK has about 1.6 million as of 2018.[1]

Therefore, an open data source of housenumbers would make it significantly
easier to add housenumbers. The only other method is surveys, which is slow and
tedious and can only really be done over a small area. The UK government refuse
to make this commercial[1][2] data available openly.

It has come to my attention that the "Town Plan" map from 1944-1967 in NLS is
available freely.

Here is the tms if you want to test it in JOSM:

tms:https://geo.nls.uk/mapdata3/os/ldn_tile/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.png

This is just the tms for london and south east england, I do not know the TMS
for the Scotland map.

This imagery extends to Brighton and Southend, although it does not provide
housenumbers in those areas, only buildings. (However, for some reason
housenumbers are present in the districts west of Brighton, e.g Worthing).

Due to it being an old map, lots of construction and destruction has taken
place since then, so in some areas of London, this map will not be useful.
However, many buildings have remained the same since then, and if that case
this map provides a far, far quicker way of mapping housenumbers compared to
going out and surveying them yourself.

If you want to see an example of this imagery being used, "Stratford New Town"
in London used this imagery to map housenumbers.[1] Housenumbers in Edinburgh
were also mapped using this NLS imagery.[2][3]

This should be very useful to many London mappers, and it would be great if
people would start entering this data right away.

However, I think the best way of getting all this data into OSM is by using a
tasking manager.

As of current, I don't think there is a UK tasking manager, I think it is worth
it create one just for this task.

The other advantage of a tasking manager is that you can mark "bad imagery", in
other words, you can mark tiles where construction has taken place, making the
map useless. This will make it more efficient to co-operate.

If OSM UK can be contacted about implementing a tasking manager for this, that
would be great.

If this can be pulled off properly (tasking manager, outreach etc.), that would
mean housenumbers in most of London!! This would genuinely be incredible.

Thanks,
IpswichMapper

[1]:
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-government/products/points-of-interest
[2]:
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-government/products/addressbase-premium
[3]: https://qa.poole.ch/addresses/
[4]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1341723829#map=13/51.5507/0.0030
[5]:
https://www.ed.ac.uk/history-classics-archaeology/research/research-projects/mapping-edinburgh-s-social-history
[6]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/55.9821/-3.2444

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Re: [OSM-talk] FLOSS alt? | Re: reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

2020-10-30 Thread Mateusz Konieczny via talk




Oct 30, 2020, 14:31 by ba...@ursamundi.org:

> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 5:03 AM Rory McCann <> r...@technomancy.org> > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 10:04 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>  > Rory, I am absolutely sure there was no bad intent in the choice of 
>>  > format and platform, but given where this discussion went so fast, I 
>>  > believe the setting should be reconsidered, evaluating the possibility 
>>  > of choosing an open platform.
>>  
>>  Hmm, I do want to support open channels. Do you have an idea of an 
>> alternative?
>>
>
> I may be biased, but how about the fediverse? 
>
In this case I would support doing both. I am supporting open channels (and 
mirroring
such discussion in some open non-proprietary place) but reaching out to people 
using
Redding/Fb/whatever makes sense and is a good idea.
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Re: [talk-cz] Podivne tagy v Mlade Boleslavi

2020-10-30 Thread Jan Martinec


Prý fixnuto před dvěma dny, v aktuální verzi:

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8130

Zdar,
HPM.

On 30. 10. 20 16:17, Martin Ždila wrote:
On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 3:54 PM Tom Ka > wrote:


Ahoj, na ceste https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/329818627 se objevily
podivne tagy, zhodilo mi to nejake skripty. Autora jsem zkusil
kontaktovat pres komentar v sade zmen, sem pisu pokud by nekomu neco
prestalo fungovat, tak to muze byt tim.


Skor asi treba kotnaktovat autorov editora iD.

--
Ing. Martin Ždila 
OZ Freemap Slovakia
tel:+421-908-363-848
mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk 
http://www.freemap.sk/ 

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Re: [talk-cz] Podivne tagy v Mlade Boleslavi

2020-10-30 Thread Lukáš Karas

Na první pohled to vypadá jako chyba editoru... A taky že jo, už je to 
nahlášené... https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/8130

Ale nestudoval jsem detaily:

Lukáš

Dne pátek 30. října 2020 15:51:47 CET Tom Ka napsal(a):
> Ahoj, na ceste https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/329818627 se objevily
> podivne tagy, zhodilo mi to nejake skripty. Autora jsem zkusil
> kontaktovat pres komentar v sade zmen, sem pisu pokud by nekomu neco
> prestalo fungovat, tak to muze byt tim.
> 
> Bye tom.k
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] religion=* and denomination=*

2020-10-30 Thread Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-ie




Oct 30, 2020, 14:51 by colmmoor...@hotmail.com:

> Hi,
>
> Apologies to the list and Mateusz for the confusion. :) Also apologies if I 
> step on religious toes.
>
>> From: Mateusz Konieczny 
>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] religion=* and denomination=*
>>
>> Disclaimer: I never visited Ireland
>>
>> 27 paź 2020, 14:41 od colmmoor...@hotmail.com:
>>
>> > 3. Holy wells, mass rocks and the like. These are predominantly Roman 
>> > Catholic, but possibly with pagan origins.
>>
>> Are they still used by pagans/new age people? For OSM purposes current usage 
>> matters, not origins.
>>
>
> I concur that current usage matters. I suppose I'm wondering what the other 
> tags should be. The below seem inadequate, not least that 
> amenity=place_of_worship + religion=christian is interpreted as a church, not 
> an open-air location like a Mass Rock (a location where Roman Catholic mass 
> was said when Roman Catholicism was suppressed).
>
amenity=place_of_worship + religion=christian would be perfectly fine tagging 
if that is a place
where masses are still conducted.

If it is not such a place - how it is used? Very rare (yearly?) masses? 
Occasional worship
(acting as a historic=wayside_shrine)?
Some memorial plaque/tourism information board/tourism attraction?

> name=Holy Well
> natural=spring
> religion=christian
> denomination=roman_catholic
>
Is it a prayer location? Former prayer location? Tourism attraction? Pilgrimage 
target?

> name=Mass Rock
> amenity=place_of_worship
> religion=christian
> denomination=roman_catholic
>
Maybe disused:amenity=place_of_worship?

If it is an actual rock then tagging rock itself also would be a good idea
(see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rock  )

>> > 8. There are religion=no, religion=none and denomination=none tags. Should 
>> > these tags be rationalised or otherwise tidied up?
>>
>> How this tags are used?
>>
>
> Mostly for schools and cemeteries. In some cases, I suspect their use hasn't 
> considered all nuances, e.g. some state-owned schools also have religious 
> patrons or representation on the school board.
>
I would say that just religious patron would not make school religious, in the 
same way as
it would not make sense to add religion=* to Saint Barbara street, where only 
name is
of religious origin.
(though as it turns out many schools in Ireland are actually religious).

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Re: [talk-cz] Podivne tagy v Mlade Boleslavi

2020-10-30 Thread Martin Ždila

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 3:54 PM Tom Ka  wrote:

> Ahoj, na ceste https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/329818627 se objevily
> podivne tagy, zhodilo mi to nejake skripty. Autora jsem zkusil
> kontaktovat pres komentar v sade zmen, sem pisu pokud by nekomu neco
> prestalo fungovat, tak to muze byt tim.
>

Skor asi treba kotnaktovat autorov editora iD.

-- 
Ing. Martin Ždila 
OZ Freemap Slovakia
tel:+421-908-363-848
mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk
http://www.freemap.sk/
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[OSM-talk-fr] Dimanche matin, c'est relâche !

2020-10-30 Thread Vincent Bergeot

Ce dimanche 1er novembre 2020, de 10h30 GMT/UTC à 13h30 GMT/UTC, l'API 
d'édition OpenStreetMap sera en lecture seule pendant que nous mettons à 
jour nos serveurs de base de données.


https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/1322110023204560896


--
Vincent Bergeot


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[talk-cz] Podivne tagy v Mlade Boleslavi

2020-10-30 Thread Tom Ka

Ahoj, na ceste https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/329818627 se objevily
podivne tagy, zhodilo mi to nejake skripty. Autora jsem zkusil
kontaktovat pres komentar v sade zmen, sem pisu pokud by nekomu neco
prestalo fungovat, tak to muze byt tim.

Bye tom.k

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] religion=* and denomination=*

2020-10-30 Thread Colm Moore

Hi,

Apologies to the list and Mateusz for the confusion. :) Also apologies if I 
step on religious toes.

> From: Mateusz Konieczny 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-ie] religion=* and denomination=*
>
> Disclaimer: I never visited Ireland
>
> 27 paź 2020, 14:41 od colmmoor...@hotmail.com:
>
> > 3. Holy wells, mass rocks and the like. These are predominantly Roman 
> > Catholic, but possibly with pagan origins.
>
> Are they still used by pagans/new age people? For OSM purposes current usage 
> matters, not origins.

I concur that current usage matters. I suppose I'm wondering what the other 
tags should be. The below seem inadequate, not least that 
amenity=place_of_worship + religion=christian is interpreted as a church, not 
an open-air location like a Mass Rock (a location where Roman Catholic mass was 
said when Roman Catholicism was suppressed).

name=Holy Well
natural=spring
religion=christian
denomination=roman_catholic

name=Mass Rock
amenity=place_of_worship
religion=christian
denomination=roman_catholic

> > 5. Many religious-run schools do not have the religion or denomination 
> > tagged.
>
> It is a bit tricky as at least some religious-run schools have absolutely no 
> trace of religion in running of school, there is simply a religious 
> owner/operator.
>
> In such cases operator:type=religious would fit better than religion tag

As mentioned in the other email, about 95% of schools are religious in 
ownership, management, and practice, with most of the others being 
interdenominational or multidenominational. As primary school children usually 
have one teacher all week, in practice 95%+ of primary school teachers teach 
religion and need certification.

> > 8. There are religion=no, religion=none and denomination=none tags. Should 
> > these tags be rationalised or otherwise tidied up?
>
> How this tags are used?

Mostly for schools and cemeteries. In some cases, I suspect their use hasn't 
considered all nuances, e.g. some state-owned schools also have religious 
patrons or representation on the school board.

>
> Huh, I though that secularization/atheisation of Ireland was quite far 
> reaching and nearly complete. (good thing that I included that diclaimer)
>
> crucifixes in most classrooms applies also to Poland, but "school boards pray 
> at the start of board meetings" would be likely to be considered as 
> ridiculous.

Don't worry, many people here consider it ridiculous as well.

> AFAIK "teachers need to be certified to teach religion" applies only to 
> teachers teaching religion here and "Religious organisations own the vast 
> majority of schools" does not apply (mostly result of WW II damage and 
> communist occupation).

We have the reverse problem. Our constitution was written in 1937. On the one 
hand, it has a republican tradition, on the other, it was co-written by a 
bishop. There is a right to property in the constitution that was probably 
designed to be anti-communist, but it just so happens to be frustrating the 
transfer of under-used state-assisted schools from Roman Catholic patronage to 
interdenominational or multidenominational patronage.

Colm

---
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Re: [talk-cz] VKP Brno

2020-10-30 Thread Tom Ka

Zkousel jsem datovou sadu najit na data.brno.cz ale bez uspechu. Tim
padem jsem nebyl schopen nijak overit licenci. Dalo by se napsat na
GIS magistratu, nedavno psali i sem do konference a pozadat je o
vyjadreni zda se muze pouzit pro OSM - okud budou souhlasit, bral bych
to jako explicitni povoleni viz. CC-BY.

Krome toho jsem se dival na provedene Spratkovy upravy - pozadal bych
o vice konzistence mezi jednotlivymi VPK - specialne pouziti ruznych
variant tagu name je podle mne ve vysledku dost nestastne (short,
name, sorting...). Pokud je typ ochrany (VKP) v protection_title, asi
bych jej vynechal ve jmenu a nechal jsen tag 'name'. Nevim take odkud
pochazi hodnota start_date, nezda se mi, ze by byly vsechy vyhlaseny
1.1.2018. Krome toho by melo byt ve formatu -MM-DD. Dale vubec
netusim, co ma byt tag 'ekotop__05' spise mi prijde jako kopie neceho
z dat MMB co v OSM nema co delat.

Bye tom.k

pá 30. 10. 2020 v 12:04 odesílatel Jan Macura  napsal:
>
> Ahoj,
>
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 11:52, Jiri Vlasak  wrote:
>>
>> Pokud si dobře vzpomínám, tak pro zanesení do OpenStreetMap je CC0 v pohodě,
>> ale CC-BY 4.0 už ne.
>
>
> přesněji řečeno, CC-BY vyžaduje dodatečný souhlas vlastníka dat (nebo jiné 
> oprávněné osoby), že použití v OSM je opravdu v pohodě.
>
> H.
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[OSM-talk-be] mapper of the month - Thierry Hancart

2020-10-30 Thread Pierre Parmentier

Hello,

Our Mapper of the Month is on
https://openstreetmap.be/en/motm/2020/10/15/thierry-hancart.html.


Pierre P.
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Re: [OSM-talk] FLOSS alt? | Re: reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

2020-10-30 Thread Paul Johnson

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 5:03 AM Rory McCann  wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 10:04 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> > Rory, I am absolutely sure there was no bad intent in the choice of
> > format and platform, but given where this discussion went so fast, I
> > believe the setting should be reconsidered, evaluating the possibility
> > of choosing an open platform.
>
> Hmm, I do want to support open channels. Do you have an idea of an
> alternative?
>

I may be biased, but how about the fediverse?
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[OSM-ja] 11/28 京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ：第22回泉涌寺

2020-10-30 Thread yasunari yamashita

山下です。
皆さんこんにちわ。

京都！街歩き！マッピングパーティ
次回第22回は、天皇家からも篤く信仰された御寺 泉湧寺

ゆるーり街歩きしてサーベイ（現地調査）
向日市の会議室で OpenStreetMap にマッピング（地図編集）、
マッピングの後は激辛懇親会！！
https://openstreetmap-kyoto.connpass.com/event/193936/

皆様の参加をお待ちしています！

※※
状況によっては直前に中止にしたり、内容を変更する可能性があります。
ご承知おきください
-- 
山下康成＠京都府向日市
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[OSM-talk-ie] Area/perimeter of Dublin City 1780 to 1985

2020-10-30 Thread Colm Moore

Hi,

The area seems to be in sq km and the perimeter in km. I wonder if the boundary 
is correct and / or meaningful at the likes of Bull Island and Dublin Port.

Note that several areas were transferred from the city to the county by the 
Local Government (Reorganisation) Act, 1985 
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1985/act/7/enacted/en/print#sec10 and the 
area is now about 115 sq km.

Colm

---
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Retour de Ça Reste Ouvert — Re: projet du mois de novembre ? Et projet du mois de décembre

2020-10-30 Thread Yves P.

@Christian
> Attention à ne pas trop se disperser…
Ajouter des POIs manquants ou les logos (qui sont appréciés sur le rendu FR) 
c'est un "détail"…

Quitte à discuter, autant parler sans filtre des besoins matière de carte.
Dans un second temps, on va trier :)

> il y a déjà du boulot pour stabiliser sur le long terme un remplaçant de 
> osm24.eu 
Je ne me rappel pas comment fonctionnait ce site. CRO fonctionnait plutôt bien 
en matière d'affichage :)

> Je m'étais lancé dans quelque chose de ce type avec OpenEventDatabase…
Je pensais à ça :)

OSM ne peut pas et ne va pas tout afficher.

Mais on peut tester un système de "notes" simple mais plus évolué.
Avec pourquoi pas des mots-clés dans l'URL pour que l'utilisateur puisse 
choisir ce qui l'intéresse ?
La source pourrait être OpenEventDatabase avec des données d'intérêt général et 
ciblé (catastrophe),
mais aussi un flux GeoJSON Events  
que l'utilisateur choisi d'afficher.

@Franz
> Dans les problèmes constatés lors du 1er confinement, il y avait la 
> difficulté d'indiquer les horaires/états/contacts des différents 
> services/fonctions d'une même entité : services des mairies, accueils 
> physique/téléphone/mail des entreprises, commande/achat/consommation sur 
> place/à emporter/à distance,…
On ne peut pas mettre les horaires de tous les services d'une mairie (comme on 
ne peut pas afficher tous les POIs d'un carte).
Le site web de l'établissement sert à ça.

Il faut afficher les horaires d'accueil physique, et éventuellement les 
horaires d'ouverture du standard téléphonique.
avec phone:opening_hours=* par exemple ?

> Ce n'est gérable dans OSM qu'en bidouillant (plusieurs POI par entité)
On bidouille comme ça aussi parce que les valeurs multiples de tags sont 
foireuses dans OSM…
Certes, un hôtel-restaurant avec des horaires pour chacun risque d'être 
compliqué.
De toutes façon, on n'arrivera jamais à faire rentrer le monde dans des boites 
;)

> je pense qu'il faudrait partir sur de nouvelles bases (!) liant objets OSM et 
> informations pratiques/légales/…
Des sites web utilisent des micro formats.
On pourrait les moissonner et afficher les infos à la "source". Pour des 
numéros de téléphone ça doit fonctionner, pour des horaires ça me parait plus 
compliquer.
En tout cas, CRO affichait des informations "externes" à OSM pour les "marques"

> une partie "urgence" : alertes météo, sanitaire, attentats, remplissage des 
> services d'urgence,... qui pourrait se faire en lien avec ou en support de 
> VISOV (http://www.visov.org ) ?
Pourquoi pas si cette asso fournit un flux "standard" ou une API qui puissent 
nourrir OpenEventDatabase.

La question ensuite est celle de la pertinence des données.
En France, je peux avoir confiance dans les alertes de Météo France, le 
gouvernement…
Dans une démocratie, c'est moins évident.

__
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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

2020-10-30 Thread Jan Martinec

Ahoj,

To je bohužel smutnej příběh, ale nedá se svítit: utajený a veřejně
dostupný je kulatý trojúhelník (. Pokud to nemá existovat, ať. Pokud se to
má zlegalizovat, ať.

"Když se o tom tady nebude mluvit, tak je to vyřešený," je pštrosí přístup,
navíc úplně marný: najde to někdo jiný, přidá to do Google Maps, nebo do
Apple Maps, nebo do Waze, nebo do Mapy, nebo to napíše na FB...takhle už se
- bez zlého úmyslu - proflákly i věci, který byly opravdu klasifikovaný
jako tajný.

Pokud potřebuje mít v hlavě určený nějaký zrcadlo, na které se bude zlobit,
že odráží svět - no, co se dá dělat.

Tím se to pro mě stává jednoznačně vandalismem.

Zdar,
HPM

Dne pá 30. 10. 2020 12:09 uživatel Vladan Kudláč 
napsal:

> To jsem nechtěl, ale zjevně jsem uživatele Gourny už naštval.
>
> [image: Gourny] 
>
> On 2020-10-30 08:42:41 UTC kudlav wrote:
>
> Zdravím,
>
> už to nechci znovu řešit. Na jedné z těchto tras se zabil měsíc zpět
> člověk. Ilegální jsou, protože jsou bez souhlasu majitele pozemků. Já nemám
> dostatečnou páku všechny za Vaší komunity přesvědčit, že by to v mapě být
> nemělo. Takže je to na rozhodnutí rovnějších si z nás, kteří mají to štěstí
> být správci nějakých internetových stránek. Dělejte jak uznáte z vhodné.
>
> Trasy, které jsem smazal, jsou ilegální trasy pro jízdu na horském kole. V
> mapách by proto vůbec neměly být.
>
> Zdravím, výše citovaná vaše odpověď je bohužel v rozporu s tím, co
> OpenStreetMap představuje:
>
> *OpenStreetMap is a database based on existing features on the ground [2],
> not something idealized by legalization or something somebody believes
> should or should not be in the map.
> [2] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground
> *
>
> Bohužel v tomto případě část tras několik členů komunity v nedávné době
> jelo, takže v terénu se cesty určitě nacházejí. Mazání tedy ne, lepší
> možností je změnit vlastnosti cest, aby se nejednalo o singletrail ale
> například jen o lesní pěšinu. Podle čeho určujete, které trasy jsou
> ilegální a které ne? Takovéto rozhodování musí být něčím podpořeno.
>
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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

2020-10-30 Thread jozka

Tak mozna mu vzkazat tohle:

"Nebuď tak zapšklej. Budeš mít pak veselejší život ;)"
(autor: Gourny 10.10.2020 20:01)

J.


__
> Od: "Tonda" 
> Komu: talk-cz@openstreetmap.org
> Datum: 30.10.2020 12:57
> Předmět: Re: [talk-cz]  Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM
>
>Já sem si mezitím našel jeho profil na Bike-forum.cz, zcela evidentně je 
>jedním z těch, co tam jezdí a dost pravděpodobně jeden z těch, co to tam 
>kope a jeho motivací je to pokud možno utajit aby tam mohli jezdit 
>nerušeně dál, pro ilustraci diskuse "MTB Brněnsko"
>
>https://www.bike-forum.cz/forum/mtb-brnensko-i 
>
>
>T.
>
>On 30.10.2020 12:07, Vladan Kudláč wrote:
>> To jsem nechtěl, ale zjevně jsem uživatele Gourny už naštval.
>>
>> Gourny    
>>
>> On 2020-10-30 08:42:41 UTC kudlav wrote:
>>
>> Zdravím,
>>
>> už to nechci znovu řešit. Na jedné z těchto tras se zabil měsíc zpět 
>> člověk. Ilegální jsou, protože jsou bez souhlasu majitele pozemků. Já 
>> nemám dostatečnou páku všechny za Vaší komunity přesvědčit, že by to v 
>> mapě být nemělo. Takže je to na rozhodnutí rovnějších si z nás, kteří 
>> mají to štěstí být správci nějakých internetových stránek. Dělejte jak 
>> uznáte z vhodné.
>>
>> Trasy, které jsem smazal, jsou ilegální trasy pro jízdu na
>> horském kole. V mapách by proto vůbec neměly být.
>>
>> Zdravím, výše citovaná vaše odpověď je bohužel v rozporu s tím, co
>> OpenStreetMap představuje:
>>
>> /OpenStreetMap is a database based on existing features on the
>> ground [2], not something idealized by legalization or something
>> somebody believes should or should not be in the map. [2]
>> 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground
>> 
>> /
>>
>> Bohužel v tomto případě část tras několik členů komunity v nedávné
>> době jelo, takže v terénu se cesty určitě nacházejí. Mazání tedy
>> ne, lepší možností je změnit vlastnosti cest, aby se nejednalo o
>> singletrail ale například jen o lesní pěšinu. Podle čeho určujete,
>> které trasy jsou ilegální a které ne? Takovéto rozhodování musí
>> být něčím podpořeno.
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
>> https://openstreetmap.cz/talkcz
>
>
>--
>
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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

2020-10-30 Thread Tonda

Já sem si mezitím našel jeho profil na Bike-forum.cz, zcela evidentně je 
jedním z těch, co tam jezdí a dost pravděpodobně jeden z těch, co to tam 
kope a jeho motivací je to pokud možno utajit aby tam mohli jezdit 
nerušeně dál, pro ilustraci diskuse "MTB Brněnsko"


https://www.bike-forum.cz/forum/mtb-brnensko-i 



T.

On 30.10.2020 12:07, Vladan Kudláč wrote:

To jsem nechtěl, ale zjevně jsem uživatele Gourny už naštval.

Gourny 

On 2020-10-30 08:42:41 UTC kudlav wrote:

Zdravím,

už to nechci znovu řešit. Na jedné z těchto tras se zabil měsíc zpět 
člověk. Ilegální jsou, protože jsou bez souhlasu majitele pozemků. Já 
nemám dostatečnou páku všechny za Vaší komunity přesvědčit, že by to v 
mapě být nemělo. Takže je to na rozhodnutí rovnějších si z nás, kteří 
mají to štěstí být správci nějakých internetových stránek. Dělejte jak 
uznáte z vhodné.


Trasy, které jsem smazal, jsou ilegální trasy pro jízdu na
horském kole. V mapách by proto vůbec neměly být.

Zdravím, výše citovaná vaše odpověď je bohužel v rozporu s tím, co
OpenStreetMap představuje:

/OpenStreetMap is a database based on existing features on the
ground [2], not something idealized by legalization or something
somebody believes should or should not be in the map. [2]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground

/

Bohužel v tomto případě část tras několik členů komunity v nedávné
době jelo, takže v terénu se cesty určitě nacházejí. Mazání tedy
ne, lepší možností je změnit vlastnosti cest, aby se nejednalo o
singletrail ale například jen o lesní pěšinu. Podle čeho určujete,
které trasy jsou ilegální a které ne? Takovéto rozhodování musí
být něčím podpořeno.


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Re: [talk-cz] Mazání nepohodlných dat z OSM

2020-10-30 Thread Vladan Kudláč

To jsem nechtěl, ale zjevně jsem uživatele Gourny už naštval.

[image: Gourny] 

On 2020-10-30 08:42:41 UTC kudlav wrote:

Zdravím,

už to nechci znovu řešit. Na jedné z těchto tras se zabil měsíc zpět
člověk. Ilegální jsou, protože jsou bez souhlasu majitele pozemků. Já nemám
dostatečnou páku všechny za Vaší komunity přesvědčit, že by to v mapě být
nemělo. Takže je to na rozhodnutí rovnějších si z nás, kteří mají to štěstí
být správci nějakých internetových stránek. Dělejte jak uznáte z vhodné.

Trasy, které jsem smazal, jsou ilegální trasy pro jízdu na horském kole. V
mapách by proto vůbec neměly být.

Zdravím, výše citovaná vaše odpověď je bohužel v rozporu s tím, co
OpenStreetMap představuje:

*OpenStreetMap is a database based on existing features on the ground [2],
not something idealized by legalization or something somebody believes
should or should not be in the map.
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Map_what.27s_on_the_ground
*

Bohužel v tomto případě část tras několik členů komunity v nedávné době
jelo, takže v terénu se cesty určitě nacházejí. Mazání tedy ne, lepší
možností je změnit vlastnosti cest, aby se nejednalo o singletrail ale
například jen o lesní pěšinu. Podle čeho určujete, které trasy jsou
ilegální a které ne? Takovéto rozhodování musí být něčím podpořeno.
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Re: [talk-cz] VKP Brno

2020-10-30 Thread Jan Macura

Ahoj,

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 at 11:52, Jiri Vlasak  wrote:

> Pokud si dobře vzpomínám, tak pro zanesení do OpenStreetMap je CC0 v
> pohodě,
> ale CC-BY 4.0 už ne.
>

přesněji řečeno, CC-BY vyžaduje dodatečný souhlas vlastníka dat (nebo jiné
oprávněné osoby), že použití v OSM je opravdu v pohodě.

H.
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Re: [talk-cz] VKP Brno

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 04:29:01PM +0100, Spratek wrote:
> Licenční podmínky jsou uvedeny zde:
> https://data.brno.cz/data/licence/

Pokud si dobře vzpomínám, tak pro zanesení do OpenStreetMap je CC0 v pohodě,
ale CC-BY 4.0 už ne.

jiri

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[OSM-talk-fr] Tag sur arrêt de train et demande analyse Osmose

2020-10-30 Thread Percherie OnDaNet


Bonjour,


Je suis en train de mettre à jour les lignes de train autour de Narbonne 
et j'ai été confronté à la gestion des deux modèles de transport public 
PTv1 (ancien modèle) et PTv2


En appliquant de façon strict la validation de JOSM "Relation Checker" 
si un nœud ayant le rôle "stop" dans un relation route=train ayant 
"public_transport:version=1", ce nœud doit avoir le tag railway=station 
(vu sur les archives 2012 du wiki où il faut placé une station dans 
chaque sens)


Cela est très perturbant avec le modèle PTv2 où une seule gare doit être 
placée (à coté des arrêts) et l'arrêt doit avoir railway=stop


Est-il envisageable d'ajouter un contrôle Osmose pour passer les arrêts 
au modèle PTv2 quand toutes les relations le sont également


Détail de la condition pour passage des arrêts au modèle PTv2 :

1. Recherche nœud avec tag railway=station
2. Vérifie si dans une relation route=train + (
   public_transport:version=1 OU public_transport:version!=* )
3. Si dans aucune relation en PTv1
4. Remplacement par railway=stop

Détail de la condition pour rétrocompatibilité au modèle PTv1 ;

1. Recherche relation route=train + ( public_transport:version=1 OU
   public_transport:version!=* )
2. Recherche nœud avec tag railway=stop
3. Remplacement par railway=station
4. Ajout info (pour expliquer la démarche) note=stop is in PTv1
   relation for use railway=station, please update all relation route=*
   to PTv2

Je serait seul au monde que j'aurai passé toutes les relations au format 
PTv2. Idéalement il faudrait faire l'analyse sur chaque relation et 
mettre à jour celle qui commencent sérieusement à dater... voir 
supprimer celle qui référence des éléments qui n'existe plus.
La création de transport en commun dans OSM n'est pas super adapté (way 
scindés pour les besoins des transports) mais de là à conserver 
l'historique des trajets qui sont en plus cassé de partout... ;-/ faut 
pas pousser mémé dans les orties :-p


Dommage que la correction des relations ne puisse pas être ajoutée au 
projet du mois... c'est à mon sens trop technique pour être proposé au 
plus grand nombre


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Re: [OSM-talk] reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

2020-10-30 Thread Christoph Hormann

By quoting the board statement i did not really intend to argue with the 
authors of said document about the exegesis of it - that would be kind of 
pointless.

What i want to express is that this is a good practical case study how much 
commitment the board members have in their practical communication with the OSM 
community to open communication channels and platforms.  As (like you and 
Martin point out) individual board members but still in their capacity as board 
members and not as a group of private individuals.

We have a saying in German that goes "wie man in den Wald hineinruft so schallt 
es heraus".  So if the board boldly advertises their commitment to open 
communication channels and then holds an exclusive event on a proprietary 
platform said board will have a hard time dealing with corporations boldly 
communicating their commitment to OpenStreetMap, community rules, OSMF policy, 
the license or similar things but then practically not living up to said 
promises from the perspective of the board or the OSM community.

Language can be a powerful tool of social interaction but your ability to use 
it to that effect depends on you having and maintaining the reputation to be 
earnest, concise, well-defined and dependable in your communication - not only 
from your own perspective but also from that of the recipients of the 
communication.  If people have the impression that they cannot rely on what you 
say - and it does not matter if that is due to them misreading your 
communication or you being vague in it - you loose the ability to effectively 
communicate with people.  As a result you would massively narrow your social 
horizon to those people who are culturally close and like-minded to you.

Back on subject - the solution to the problem here to be able to reach out to 
people on reddit who are more comfortable there than on open platforms while 
not being exclusive in my eyes could be fairly simple - you just allow 
questions on both reddit and open platforms and you post answers on both 
equally as well.  Yes, that is additional work.  But commitment without 
inconveniences is ultimately not really commitment.

We even have a practical reference for Q in the OSMF context on open 
platforms by the way.  Before the board decided there to be a need for 
moderation (which was never re-evaluated afterwards by the way) in the lead-up 
to the board elections we had open Q on the OSM wiki with the candidates.

-- 
Christoph Hormann 
http://www.imagico.de/

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[OSM-talk] FLOSS alt? | Re: reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

2020-10-30 Thread Rory McCann

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, at 10:04 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Rory, I am absolutely sure there was no bad intent in the choice of 
> format and platform, but given where this discussion went so fast, I 
> believe the setting should be reconsidered, evaluating the possibility 
> of choosing an open platform.

Hmm, I do want to support open channels. Do you have an idea of an alternative?

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Retour de Ça Reste Ouvert — Re: projet du mois de novembre ? Et projet du mois de décembre

2020-10-30 Thread Christian Quest



Le 29/10/2020 à 20:02, Yves P. a écrit :

- renseigner l'ouverture, les horaires modifiés et certains changements dans le 
fonctionnement de commerces pendant le confinement (livraison, etc)

Au niveau de la saisie, il y a encore des améliorations à apporter.
Effectivement, bien réfléchir sur ce point.


- accéder facilement à ces infos

Je pensais surtout à ça.

On pourrait afficher les POIs qui manquent dans les rendus actuels (maison de 
santé, laboratoires d'analyses biologique, DAE…)
C'est plutôt facile à faire en vectoriel ;)

Aussi afficher les logos des POIs façon rendu français (La Poste, SNCF…)

…La cartographie intérieure (ça donnera des idées aux contributeurs, hôpitaux, 
universités, centre commerciaux…)



Attention à ne pas trop se disperser... il y a déjà du boulot pour 
stabiliser sur le long terme un remplaçant de osm24.eu




on pourrait aussi imaginer pérenniser un tel service pour mettre en valeur ces 
informations dans OSM, je parle des horaires, de la possibilité d'être livré ou 
le à emporter.

Je n'avais pas détaillé, mais globalement tous les champs affichés par CRO.


caresteouvert pourrait devenir cestouvert

tant qu'à faire : OpenStreetMap.fr (et ça donnera peut-être des idées à la 
fondation, qui sait ?)


Le côté "marque" facilite aussi la communication, c'est à ça que je pensais.



et utiliser les tags temporaires le temps de leur pertinence (covid, mais aussi 
catastrophe naturelle, je pense à la tempête Alex ou bien d'autres)

Bien vu pour Alex :)

Par exemple une couche vectorielle indépendante d'OSM contenant des infos 
temporelles ?
Par exemple des "notes" structurées (GeoJSON) : accidents, bouchons, marchés, 
manifestations culturelles, courses cycliste…



Pour les infos très temporaires, non répétitives, c'est un tout autre 
chantier. Leur collecte n'est pas évidente et OSM n'est sûrement pas le 
réceptacle pour ces infos trop changeantes.


Je m'étais lancé dans quelque chose de ce type avec OpenEventDatabase... 
qui est alimenté en automatique par des scripts qui vont reprendre les 
infos sur différentes sites publics. L'API est ouverte et n'importe qui 
peut ajouter/modifier/supprimer des événements, mais c'est resté à 
l'état de PoC. C'est full geojson, donc super facile à exploiter (par 
exemple via umap).


--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France


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[OSM-talk] 1st November 2020 - Edit API unavailable during maintenance

2020-10-30 Thread Grant Slater

Hi OpenStreetMap'ers,

This Sunday 1st November 2020 from 10:30am until 13:30 GMT/UTC the
OpenStreetMap editing API will be read-only. We are upgrading the cluster
of database servers.

During the maintenance you will be unable to save map changes.

Kind regards,

Grant
Part of the OSM sysadmin team.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Retour de Ça Reste Ouvert — Re: projet du mois de novembre ? Et projet du mois de décembre

2020-10-30 Thread Frantz

Bonjour !

29 octobre 2020 20:02 "Yves P."  a écrit:

>> - renseigner l'ouverture, les horaires modifiés et certains changements dans 
>> le fonctionnement de
>> commerces pendant le confinement (livraison, etc)
> 
> Au niveau de la saisie, il y a encore des améliorations à apporter.
> Effectivement, bien réfléchir sur ce point.

Dans les problèmes constatés lors du 1er confinement, il y avait la difficulté 
d'indiquer les horaires/états/contacts des différents services/fonctions d'une 
même entité : services des mairies, accueils physique/téléphone/mail des 
entreprises, commande/achat/consommation sur place/à emporter/à distance,...
Ce n'est gérable dans OSM qu'en bidouillant (plusieurs POI par entité) et ça me 
semble s'éloigner de la raison d'être d'OSM : je pense qu'il faudrait partir 
sur de nouvelles bases (!) liant objets OSM et informations 
pratiques/légales/...
 
>> [...]
>> caresteouvert pourrait devenir cestouvert
> 
> tant qu'à faire : OpenStreetMap.fr (et ça donnera peut-être des idées à la 
> fondation, qui sait ?)

Je pense aussi qu'il faut capitaliser sur le nom OpenStreetMap, on le voit sur 
de plus en plus de cartes, il faut maintenant montrer le côté réactif et local 
(malgré le nom anglophone).
 
>> et utiliser les tags temporaires le temps de leur pertinence (covid, mais 
>> aussi catastrophe
>> naturelle, je pense à la tempête Alex ou bien d'autres)
> 
> Bien vu pour Alex :)
> 
> Par exemple une couche vectorielle indépendante d'OSM contenant des infos 
> temporelles ?
> Par exemple des "notes" structurées (GeoJSON) : accidents, bouchons, marchés, 
> manifestations
> culturelles, courses cycliste…

- une partie infos pratiques "temps réel" : horaires habituels et adaptés,...
- une partie "urgence" : alertes météo, sanitaire, attentats, remplissage des 
services d'urgence,... qui pourrait se faire en lien avec ou en support de 
VISOV (http://www.visov.org) ?

-- 
Frantz

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Re: [OSM-talk] reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

2020-10-30 Thread Maarten Deen


On 2020-10-30 10:04, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


When digging slightly deeper it surfaces that people who do not want
to sign up at  can only read. "Ask me
anything" in readonly mode?


I'm sure you can send them questions via email 
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Contact) and I'm hoping the 
participants will monitor their email during the AMA. That should be 
near real-time enough.


The only down part is the countries where reddit is banned completely.

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk] reddit AMA with some OSMF Board members. 15:00Z 9 Nov

2020-10-30 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer

Am Do., 29. Okt. 2020 um 22:31 Uhr schrieb Rory McCann :

> On Thu, 29 Oct 2020, at 9:30 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> > So i suppose you will circumnavigate any subject related to OSMF
> > governance or the election and that you will not refer to what is going
> > to be said there in any future discussion of OSMF matters (because then
> > it would need to be considered as part of a consultation by the board).
>
> What, you think, I personally am not allowed to even _talk_ about anything
> to do with OSMF unless it's (e.g.) on this mailing list?! Come on,
> Christoph, that's ridiculus. If someone emails me, am I required to publish
> that email and any reply I make?! Seriously that's not what the committment
> to open communication channels means.

There's a difference between a chat among some people and a "Ask me
anything" which you, representing yourself as a board member and other
members of the board ("Some of us on the OSM Foundation Board") announce on
the talk list with the words: "It's an oppertunity to ask us some
questions.".

When digging slightly deeper it surfaces that people who do not want to
sign up at  can only read. "Ask me anything" in
readonly mode?

Rory, I am absolutely sure there was no bad intent in the choice of format
and platform, but given where this discussion went so fast, I believe the
setting should be reconsidered, evaluating the possibility of choosing an
open platform.

Cheers
Martin
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[talk-cz] Meeting Missing Maps CZ & SK

Ahoj,

trochu pozdě, ale přece. Na zítra (sobota, 31. 10.) na 16:00 jsme naplánovali
online minikonferenci *Meeting Missing Maps CZ & SK*.

https://trello.com/c/ee84jBZj/273-meeting-mm-cz-sk-na-podzim

Video místnost je na BBB serveru OSMF:

https://osmvideo.cloud68.co/user/qee-qwk-snz-s4r

Jestli budete mít chuť a čas, tak se stavte.

Pěkný den,
jiri

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