Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Marc Gemis
Lester wrote: > Nominatim produces something of a overloaded location string That's the case outside the UK as. Look up any address in Flanders and you get Flanders somewhere in the address stack. This admin level is never used on letters nor in navigation, only for administrative purposes. As I

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Adam Snape
"Are you saying that anything with a postcode beginning with SW should be tagged addr:city=London and anything beginning with TW9 or TW10 should be tagged addr:city=Richmond?" I'm not saying others *should*, I am just saying how I *do *map. If others want to document how they map I'm happy to how

Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Activity Updates

2017-10-19 Thread Rob Nickerson
Great news. Can I enquire about two things: First did you use the iD walkthrough and if yes, how was it? Did it provide a full introduction or did you need to help with extra support too? And second, what sort of oddities did you get on the TfWM bus route plotting software? And how were they

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
On 19 October 2017 at 13:38, Ed Loach wrote: >> For anyone else reading, we're talking about >> http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/stats/ > > When I drilled down a bit I found an NG column with a * in it, e.g. > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/stats/CO/CO13/ > > In

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Andrew Hain
Are you saying that anything with a postcode beginning with SW should be tagged addr:city=London and anything beginning with TW9 or TW10 should be tagged addr:city=Richmond? -- Andrew From: Adam Snape Sent: 19 October 2017 09:35:40 To:

[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Birmingham City Council

2017-10-19 Thread Brian Prangle
Hi everyone BCC now using OSM for public announcements ! ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org

[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Activity Updates

2017-10-19 Thread Brian Prangle
Hi everyone 1. I'm back training Probation Pay Back Attendees with Anawim. I've currently assigned our first new trainee the SE corner of Nuneaton to add buildings and improve road alignments. Latest version of id is much improved! 2. I now have a direct link into TfWM's maintainer of NaPTAN bus

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Lester Caine
On 19/10/17 15:37, Colin Smale wrote: > Which boundaries are your referring to, which have yet to be mapped? > There are big holes in Civil Parish + Community mapping in the north of > England/Wales/Scotland, but most of England is OK. AFAIK all other admin > boundaries are in there. Parish

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Colin Smale
A lookup on DA10 1AZ gives the following results: Marstons Inn (for example) Talbot Lane Weldon Ebbsfleet Valley SWANSCOMBE DA10 1AZ So it has a building name, a street name (Talbot Lane), a locality (Ebbsfleet Valley), a sublocality (Weldon) and a post town (Swanscombe). It that really

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Colin Smale
Which boundaries are your referring to, which have yet to be mapped? There are big holes in Civil Parish + Community mapping in the north of England/Wales/Scotland, but most of England is OK. AFAIK all other admin boundaries are in there. "Place" boundaries are a whole other can of worms,

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Lester Caine
On 19/10/17 15:30, Colin Smale wrote: > It appears they don't even know/understand their own address... The post > town is not Ebbsfleet but Swanscombe. Not according to Royal Mail ;) But then that is no proof either, except that is where post will be delivered by them. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Lester Caine
On 19/10/17 14:31, Dave F wrote: > On 19/10/2017 12:04, Lester Caine wrote: >> On 19/10/17 11:35, Adam Snape wrote: >>> Doesn't its location within the UK make an explicit UK tag unnecessary? >> But when reading a single object tags do you know just where it is? Some >> other mechanism has to

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Steve Doerr
On 19/10/2017 12:42, Dave F wrote: Where did you get that address? Their website shows it as: Spring River, Talbot Lane, Ebbsfleet, DA10 1AZ I got the address from a till receipt the first time I ate there, and also checked the Royal Mail site. Which bit is Talbot Lane; it's not tagged.

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Dave F
On 19/10/2017 12:04, Lester Caine wrote: On 19/10/17 11:35, Adam Snape wrote: Doesn't its location within the UK make an explicit UK tag unnecessary? But when reading a single object tags do you know just where it is? Some other mechanism has to return the 'inside boundary' data which takes

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Colin Smale
Points - as in delivery points (letterboxes). If you try to analyse the postcodes into areas, you will find all kinds of exclaves and enclaves. To go from a postcode+house number to lat/long, you need to do a lookup in the PAF. If you only have a partial code, you can get an approximation You

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Adam Snape
Hi, Yes, I was talking about in OSM, so was reluctant to go looking up the RM version. When I used to sell stuff I did check with the RM website before sending stuff out. In my local area I know which postcodes are for which post town so I can correct without referring to the RM. For delivery,

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Adam Snape
Haha, fair enough, it must depend where you live and the purposes for needing an address. I apologise for the digression. On 19 October 2017 at 14:02, Andy Townsend wrote: > On 19/10/2017 13:15, Adam Snape wrote: > >> To my mind Nominatim should use postal addresses where

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Tom Hughes
On 19/10/17 13:00, Steven Horner wrote: UK postcodes generally cover an area/polygon. How big that area is appears to come down to how much mail that area is likely to receive, I think that's how its described on Wikipedia. So it could cover one building, a street or a huge area if rural.

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Andy Townsend
On 19/10/2017 13:15, Adam Snape wrote: To my mind Nominatim should use postal addresses where tagged in OSM rather than trying to interpolate a address from admin boundaries. As a backup it is better than nothing but it prodcues some bizarre results. Somebody might live in Blackburn or

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread David Woolley
On 19/10/17 13:15, Adam Snape wrote: Despite postcode polygons sometimes being used, they are really just automatically calculated from the delivery points to which the postcode applies. There is an extended version of the postcode, which includes an extra two (I think) characters, that

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Stuart Reynolds
The Post Office is quite happy to invent places and create addresses that don’t reflect the reality on the ground. For example, Shoeburyness is actually South Shoebury (the CofE church is still called St Andrews South Shoebury) but the PO insisted (in the dim and distant past) of calling it

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Ed Loach
> For anyone else reading, we're talking about > http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/stats/ > When I drilled down a bit I found an NG column with a * in it, e.g. http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/postcodes/stats/CO/CO13/ In this instance I think the 4 CO13 3 codes are PO Boxes but fall just

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Lester Caine
On 19/10/17 13:15, Adam Snape wrote: > But Ebbsfleet is not a Post Town. The address will include Swanscombe. I > should have said before that my experience (as an eBay seller) is lots > of  people are unaware of their correct postal address. Each postcode > section eg. DA1, DA2, DA3... will have

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Adam Snape
But Ebbsfleet is not a Post Town. The address will include Swanscombe. I should have said before that my experience (as an eBay seller) is lots of people are unaware of their correct postal address. Each postcode section eg. DA1, DA2, DA3... will have a particular post town, so I correct this

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Philip Barnes
The polygons can also overlap. The road I live on is a crescent with different postcodes for odd (outside) and even (inside) resulting in the centroids being close together and within the even area. Phil (trigpoint) On 19 October 2017 13:00:25 BST, Steven Horner

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Steven Horner
> > Postcodes refer to points, not to polygons. Are you saying a point in OpenStreetMap terms? UK postcodes generally cover an area/polygon. How big that area is appears to come down to how much mail that area is likely to receive, I think that's how its described on Wikipedia. So it could cover

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Lester Caine
On 19/10/17 12:37, Marc Gemis wrote: > Then at least people know that they should not check with Nominatim. > > AFAIK, Nominatim does not try to generate an address you can put an a > letter. It tries to show the address as part of the administrative > hierarchy defined by the other objects in

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Dave F
Hi Occasionally, especially with businesses, extra 'bits' get added to make their establishment appear posher than it actually is. Looking at it's location you can see why. 'Next to the interchange' won't entice many customers. Where did you get that address? Their website shows it as:

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Marc Gemis
Then at least people know that they should not check with Nominatim. AFAIK, Nominatim does not try to generate an address you can put an a letter. It tries to show the address as part of the administrative hierarchy defined by the other objects in OSM. Some of those administrative levels are not

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Colin Smale
In the UK, this algorithm is useless if you expect to get the actual address that you could send a letter to, or that you could ask for directions to. On 2017-10-19 13:23, Marc Gemis wrote: > Maybe it is interesting to repeat how Nominatim resolves addresses, > just in case someone wants to do a

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Colin Smale
We have to remember that in the UK there is only a tenuous link between the postal address and the physical address. A building can have multiple postcodes, and the road/place in the postal address may not be the same as the road/place you might expect from looking at the "nearest road" and admin

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Marc Gemis
Maybe it is interesting to repeat how Nominatim resolves addresses, just in case someone wants to do a search after adding an address. - Nominatim starts from an address point (or building way with address). It takes the house number from it and the street name. - It tries to match the street

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Lester Caine
On 19/10/17 11:35, Adam Snape wrote: > Doesn't its location within the UK make an explicit UK tag unnecessary? But when reading a single object tags do you know just where it is? Some other mechanism has to return the 'inside boundary' data which takes processing power. > The postcode, where

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Adam Snape
Doesn't its location within the UK make an explicit UK tag unnecessary? The postcode, where present does usually indicate the other address details (though very occasionally postcodes can include more than one street). However we have no way of tagging attributes to a postcode rather than an OSM

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Lester Caine
On 19/10/17 09:35, Adam Snape wrote: > So I'd tag Steve's example: name=The Spring River, addr:street=Talbot > Lane, addr:hamlet=Weldon, addr:suburb=Ebbsfleet Valley, > addr:city=Swanscombe, addr:postcode=DA10 1AZ One of those itches to be scratched that have been discussed elsewhere ... Do we

Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project: Addresses and Postcodes

2017-10-19 Thread Adam Snape
I'm convinced that many such addresses are unnecessarily long (are there really multiple Weldons in the Swanscome postal area?). Nevertheless we should have a way of mapping them if they are the official address. I agree that more general guidance would aid consistency. My address mapping practice