Re: Forum Software LC?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Just be aware that discord has horrible threading.

Never run your own stuff on the web unless you’re really sure what you’re doing 
(unless it is read-only stuff). Preventing SQL and Scripting injection is not a 
trivial thing to do and in that sense LiveCode and PHP are kinda the same. 

Doing a forum in LiveCode is a cool experience and will teach you a lot, but if 
you’re gonna do it, you will need to be prepared to get really good into other 
aspects of development beyond LiveCode. You’ll need a very good grasp of Web 
technologies such as HTML, CSS, JS. You will also need a good understanding of 
servers, protocols, and databases.

As Richard said, it is not an easy project.

> On 18 Sep 2023, at 18:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Rick Harrison wrote:
>> Has anyone built Forum Software with LiveCode?
> There are a lot of PHP
>> ones, but I have yet to
> find one that was built with LiveCode.
> 
> PHP is
>> hacked all the time, and I have found
> hacker bots that try to hack my
>> server all
> the time by exploiting holes in PHP.  They
> even try to install
>> PHP on my server so they
> can then use it to hack my server!
> 
> I think
>> Forum Software built with LiveCode
> could be more secure, but I don’t
>> want to
> build it myself if someone has already
> created it.
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
>  
> Don't build it yourself. It's a lot of work.  Software is almost always more 
> affordable to buy than build, and most forum packages these days are FOSS and 
> free of cost.
> 
> Crafting the user experience alone would take months to do well.  And if you 
> think security is lacking in established packages see what happens when you 
> roll your own. ;)
>  
> Use Discourse.  There are others, but Discourse is currently the go-to choice 
> for new forums.  Great UX, open source.
>  
> Another option that's become increasingly popular is to ditch hosting your 
> own forum altogether and using Discord instead. Forums can be set up there 
> for free, with native mobile apps available and rich APIs if you need to 
> customize anything.
>  
> --  
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
>  
> 
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Sad news about Brahmanathaswami

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Dear LiveCoders,

Many of you here remember Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami (some of you met him as 
Sannyasin Sivakatirswami many years ago). Swami has always been a champion for 
LiveCode and together with other other monks in Kaua’i Hindu Monastery built 
what is probably the largest LiveCode-backed website available on the net. He’s 
been a constant fixture here on the list for many years and many here been at 
some time or another worked with him on various projects. I’m sad to say that 
Brahmanathaswami passed away this week on Hawaii. His life has been full of joy 
among his beloved monks in a paradise Island full of love and sunshine. 

I’ve worked with him there on and off for the best part of maybe 18 years 
(we’re not exactly sure when I started), he’s been a great friend and together 
we built many wondrous things with LiveCode. I’ll forever cherish those years, 
and I hope you all remember him fondly today as well.

Kind regards
Andre
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Re: Anyone any experience with Livecode under Ventura?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Just to flag a different experience here. I can’t get the simulator to launch 
under Ventura on a Macbook Air M1.

I have Xcode 13.2 installed and have “xcode-select” set to it. The preferences 
for mobile development are set correctly and when I try to launch a mobile app 
for testing on the simulator it gets stuck in the “launching app” dialog 
forever.

And yes, I tried launching the simulator manually by going inside the bundle 
and the simulator is working fine.



> On 25 Oct 2022, at 21:39, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks to all confirming that LC runs fine under Ventura.
> 
> I've upgraded now and i am now testing
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
>> Am 25.10.2022 um 19:28 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> the topic says it all
>> 
>> Does anyone have already experience with Livecode under Ventura?
>> Are there any known problems/bugs or so?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> 
>> 
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Re: Calendar interfaces

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Graham,

In 2005 I wrote a library to parse and generate vCards and iCalendar files. It 
is a very old library I wrote when I was still early in my LiveCode journey. It 
works but it is underdocumented. There are commands and functions to generate 
an iCalendar file and there are some “raw” vObject (the common part of vCards 
and iCal files) functions that can be used to parse them.

I don’t think this is a turn-key solution for your problem but it is a good 
starting point to develop your own solution. I’ve uploaded it to:

https://andregarzia.com/files/vObjectPackage.livecode.zip 


The iCal part is not documented but it is on the source code. Learn the vCard 
documentation and you’ll get a feel for how the iCal part should work. Then, 
look at the source of “vObjectlib” substack for the command names.

Best
Andre

> On 19 Sep 2022, at 16:43, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks, I have not been following this list with great attention for the last 
> few months, nor doing active LC development, so I’ve missed a lot, but now I 
> have been asked to look into the possibility of an app that reads and writes 
> to standard calendars, particularly the kind used by Apple. I believe their 
> apps for Mac and iOS use some kind of open standard, and if so there must be 
> a useable API.
> 
> To save me lots of research, can I ask if anyone has worked with calendars 
> like these, and if so, can they point me to an easy way to get LC to talk to 
> them.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Graham
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20% discount on advanced LiveCode development books

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Friends,

I had a wonderful time at the LiveCode DevCon 2022 and decided to extend the 
discount I offered for my books at the con to the wider LC community. These are 
two books that complement each other, one about organising and developing 
effective code and the other about building your own dev tools to help your 
products succeed. 

LIVECODE ADVANCED APPLICATION ARCHITECTURE BOOK

This book will help you learn about LiveCode best practices and advanced 
application architecture. With the techniques contained in it you will build 
applications that are easier to maintain and adapt leading to a more fun and 
profitable future.

https://payhip.com/b/I1Un

DEVELOPMENT ORIENTED DEVELOPMENT BOOK

Development Oriented Development is a novel approach to coding with LiveCode 
that prioritizes developer comfort and robustness by favouring treating 
LiveCode as a mouldable environment. By the end of this book, you'll know how 
and why to build custom plugins to make your development workflow easier, and 
how bespoke project-specific tools lead to software that is easier to maintain.

https://payhip.com/b/18eH

The discount coupon is BOOKS20 and you need to apply it when you're checking 
out.

Best
Andre
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Re: LibKiosk by André Garzia

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/technotes/tn2062/_index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS10003090-CH1-SECTION3
 
<https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/technotes/tn2062/_index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS10003090-CH1-SECTION3>

Looks like a good starting point for someone wanting to attempt to create a new 
external.

> On 12 May 2022, at 13:14, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> 
> Hi, I don’t even remember that library. I think the source is probably lost. 
> I made it before I started using version control systems. Anyway, I doubt 
> that this external would work today, too many things have changed. Maybe it 
> is possible to replicate that without an external with some cleverly written 
> LiveCode Builder gizmo. 
> 
>> On 12 May 2022, at 11:43, William de Smet via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there,
>> 
>> I found some information about LibKiosk André Garzia released 15 years ago.
>> Is there still a download available somewhere or is it deprecated now?
>> 
>> 
>> groeten,
>> 
>> William
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Re: LibKiosk by André Garzia

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi, I don’t even remember that library. I think the source is probably lost. I 
made it before I started using version control systems. Anyway, I doubt that 
this external would work today, too many things have changed. Maybe it is 
possible to replicate that without an external with some cleverly written 
LiveCode Builder gizmo. 

> On 12 May 2022, at 11:43, William de Smet via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I found some information about LibKiosk André Garzia released 15 years ago.
> Is there still a download available somewhere or is it deprecated now?
> 
> 
> groeten,
> 
> William
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Re: Flash Talks - 3 slots remaining

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I think this is very interesting. I’d love to watch a flash talk on it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Apr 2022, at 18:38, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Heather.
> 
> I probably am one of the oddest LC users. Entirely for either my own use or 
> for my company. Only once did I sell a system commercially.
> 
> But I do use LC to control three very different machines in our shop. Would 
> it be of any interest to anyone to see one of these in operation?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Craig Newman  (dunbarx)
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 5, 2022, at 12:54 PM, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Good Folks of the Use-list,
>> 
>> I'm in the final throes of scheduling our upcoming online conference on 
>> 25-27th April. Its looking great! Multiple fabulous talks have come in, 
>> there is loads of rich content, we have panels, keynotes and workshops 
>> galore! We're just missing 3 flashtalks to round out the Flash Talks section 
>> on Day 3. I know at least 3 of you good people can speak for a mere 7 
>> minutes on your topic of choice. Roll up roll up... and send me a talk 
>> submission :) Pretty please?
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/global/apply-to-speak/ 
>> 
>> 
>> It's going to be a great event. 
>> 
>> Warmest Regards to all,
>> 
>> Heather
>> 
>> P.S. Where is the conference schedule to be seen, I hear you ask? Right here:
>> 
>> https://livecode.com/global/schedule/
>> 
>> Heather Laine
>> Customer Services Manager and Conference Organizer Extraordinaire
>> LiveCode Ltd
>> www.livecode.com
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Re: launch tFile with tApp

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

What about using AppleScript to force it to open with a given app?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Apr 2022, at 10:08, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> Am 04.04.2022 um 18:10 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> macOS 12.3, LC 9.6.7
>> 
>> I have e.g. a MP3 file and want to open it with "Quicktime Player.app":
>> ...
>> ## tPrompt contains a localized string, of course
>> answer file tPrompt with specialfolderpath("apps") with type "|app|"
>> put it into tApp
>> ## I select QTPLayer.app
>> if the result = "cancel" then
>> exit to top
>> end if
>> ## tDatei holds the complete path to the MP3
>> ## tApp the path to QTPlayer.app
>> launch tDatei with tApp
>> put the result
>> ...
>> 
>> It will open the MP3 with QTPlayer as desired BUT
>> it also opens the file with "iTunes/Music" additionally!?
>> And I don't want that! :-D
>> 
>> The result is EMPTY.
> 
> must have been a temporary "glitch" since it did not happen today.
> 
> And a HTML file was opened with "TextEdit.app" as expected and did 
> not start "Safari".
> 
> But will keep an eye on this! 8-)
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
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Re: There is no TextEdit.app???

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Bob,

AppleScript still your friend. Use this AppleScript from your LiveCode app:

tell application "TextEdit"
set targetFilePath to "Macintosh HD:Users:myuser:Downloads:test.txt"

activate
open file targetFilePath
end tell


Just remember to alter the destination of targetFilePath to be the file you
want, and remember that paths are colon separated.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 at 15:17, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Andre, the goal for me on this one is to get the path to the app so I can
> use it in the launch command. For some reason, using the short name of the
> app does not work with the launch command, although maybe it should. Also
> launch using just the filename does not launch the default app like you
> would think.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> > On Mar 21, 2022, at 16:16 , Bob Sneidar 
> wrote:
> >
> > NVM on this one. Apparently the TextEdit.app application is actually in
> /System/Applications/ even though there is a TextEdit.app file in
> /Applications/. Must be a SymLink.
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> >> On Mar 21, 2022, at 16:12 , Bob Sneidar 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Also the launch command is not working with the TextEdit application.
> >>
> >> Bob S
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mar 21, 2022, at 15:58 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have the following in a script, and it does not seem to be able to
> find the TextEdit.app application on a Mac!
> >>>
> >>> put "/Applications/TextEdit.app" into tTextEditorPath
> >>> if there is a folder tTextEditorPath  then
> >>>   put true into tValidPath
> >>> end if
> >>>
> >>> if tValidPath is false then
> >>>put empty into tTextEditorPath
> >>> end if
> >>>
> >>> That cannot be right.
> >>>
> >>> MacOS Catalina 10.15.7 LC 9.6.7 lc2.
> >>>
> >>> Bob S
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
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> >
>
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Re: There is no TextEdit.app???

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Damn, I took a long time formatting that message so the source-code would be 
legible. Well, sorry, don’t know if it was my mail app or the mailing-list 
software, but something borked it.

> On 22 Mar 2022, at 10:36, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Another way to check if an application is installed on a mac is by using 
> AppleScript. Here are some functions that work together to check if TextEdit 
> is installed.
> 
> function q txt
>  return quote & txt & quote
> end q
> 
> function isApplicationInstalledByBundleID pID
>  put "try" & cr into tScript
>  put "tell application " & q("Finder") & " to get application file id " & 
> q(pID) & cr after tScript
>  put "return true" & cr after tScript
>  put "on error" & cr after tScript
>  put "return false" & cr after tScript
>  put "end try" & cr after tScript
> 
>  do tScript as “applescript"
> 
>  if the result is "{true}” then
>return true
>  else
>return false
>  end if
> end isApplicationInstalledByBundleID
> 
> function isTextEditInstalled
>  return isApplicationInstalledByBundleID("com.apple.TextEdit")
> end isTextEditInstalled
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21 Mar 2022, at 22:58, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have the following in a script, and it does not seem to be able to find 
>> the TextEdit.app application on a Mac! 
>> 
>>  put "/Applications/TextEdit.app" into tTextEditorPath
>>  if there is a folder tTextEditorPath  then 
>>put true into tValidPath
>>  end if
>> 
>>  if tValidPath is false then 
>> put empty into tTextEditorPath
>>  end if
>> 
>> That cannot be right. 
>> 
>> MacOS Catalina 10.15.7 LC 9.6.7 lc2. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
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Re: There is no TextEdit.app???

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Bob,

Another way to check if an application is installed on a mac is by using 
AppleScript. Here are some functions that work together to check if TextEdit is 
installed.

function q txt
  return quote & txt & quote
end q

function isApplicationInstalledByBundleID pID
  put "try" & cr into tScript
  put "tell application " & q("Finder") & " to get application file id " & 
q(pID) & cr after tScript
  put "return true" & cr after tScript
  put "on error" & cr after tScript
  put "return false" & cr after tScript
  put "end try" & cr after tScript

  do tScript as “applescript"

  if the result is "{true}” then
return true
  else
return false
  end if
end isApplicationInstalledByBundleID

function isTextEditInstalled
  return isApplicationInstalledByBundleID("com.apple.TextEdit")
end isTextEditInstalled



> On 21 Mar 2022, at 22:58, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have the following in a script, and it does not seem to be able to find the 
> TextEdit.app application on a Mac! 
> 
>   put "/Applications/TextEdit.app" into tTextEditorPath
>   if there is a folder tTextEditorPath  then 
> put true into tValidPath
>   end if
> 
>   if tValidPath is false then 
>  put empty into tTextEditorPath
>   end if
> 
> That cannot be right. 
> 
> MacOS Catalina 10.15.7 LC 9.6.7 lc2. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
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Re: What happens if an Indy license renews these days?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Oh I missed the part about the indy licenses on that email. Thanks for
reminding me.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 at 17:23, Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Andre,
> didn‘t you get an email from LC some time ago.
>
> If i recall it correctly then the Indy license was transitioned to a Pro
> license but you keep your „old“ subscription price.
>
> Matthias
>
> Von meinem iPad gesendet
>
> > Am 19.03.2022 um 17:26 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > My Indy license is up for renewal on Monday and given the new licensing
> > scheme, I have no idea what will happen if I let it renew. Anyone has a
> > clue?
> >
> > --
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What happens if an Indy license renews these days?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

My Indy license is up for renewal on Monday and given the new licensing
scheme, I have no idea what will happen if I let it renew. Anyone has a
clue?

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Re: 25% Discount coupon for my LiveCode eBooks

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Matthias,

I just found your email on my spam box. I do not know how it ended up
there. I can see two emails in February. Sendowl and I parted ways. As I'm
focusing more on books than software, I moved shop to Payhip and moved the
books over. Sendowl was more expensive yearly than what those products were
making, so it had to go.

I'm going to send you a private email with attachments for those tools, but
be aware that I discontinued all of them and am not giving them support
anymore.

Best
A

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 at 21:33, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Andre,
>
> please excuse me for talking about this here in the use list.
>
> I've sent you an email a few days ago regarding redownloading your books
> and tools which were purchased through Sendowl and about another topic.
> Didn't you get it?
>
> Regards,
> Matthias
>
>
> > Am 16.02.2022 um 22:12 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
> >
> > Hi Friends,
> >
> > Just created a 25% discount coupon for my LiveCode books if anyone here
> > wants them:
> >
> > *TTPE2027YE*
> >
> > This coupon is valid just until the end of the week, so grab them fast.
> >
> > - Developmented Oriented Development eBook: https://payhip.com/b/18eH
> >
> > - LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture eBook:
> > https://payhip.com/b/I1Un
> >
> > Cheers
> > A
> >
> > --
> > https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > ___
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>
>
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25% Discount coupon for my LiveCode eBooks

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Friends,

Just created a 25% discount coupon for my LiveCode books if anyone here
wants them:

*TTPE2027YE*

This coupon is valid just until the end of the week, so grab them fast.

- Developmented Oriented Development eBook: https://payhip.com/b/18eH

- LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture eBook:
https://payhip.com/b/I1Un

Cheers
A

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Re: Question about organization of large projects

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi,

Just bumping into this thread to remind people, I wrote a couple of books
that tackle topics of organising your large LC projects:

*
https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html
* https://andregarzia.com/books/development-oriented-development.html

Best
A

On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 at 20:26, William Prothero via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Jacqueline,
> Thank you very much! Your explanation will save me a load of time. There
> really ought to be a lesson on this, rather than making folks figure it out
> for themselves. It’s so simple, yet so time consuming to figure how to
> implement from the dictionary.
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
>
> > On Feb 5, 2022, at 12:05 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2/5/22 12:21 AM, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote:
> >> Ok, thinking….. so for development, I would need to do something like:
> >> function resPath
> >> if the environment contains “Development” then
> >>put specialFolderPath("resources”)&”/mydataFolder" into dataPath
> >>else
> >>put
> specialFolderPath(“resources”)&”/dirSplashStackisin/pathToThisStack“&”/mydataFolder"
> into dataPath
> >>end if
> >>return dataPath
> >> end resPath
> >> In other words, all app paths would be relative to the splash stack.
> >> Is that right?
> >
> > There are a couple of ways to handle this. One is by using the
> stackfiles and the other is by creating a specific file path. In both
> cases, the module stacks should be in a folder structure that lives in the
> same directory as the splash stack; files scattered around the hard drive
> don't do well. You can choose either method, you don't need both. Either
> method will work the same way in the IDE and a standalone (including
> mobile.)
> >
> > For stackfiles: when you enter the path to the file, use a path relative
> to the main splash stack. The standalone builder retains the file structure
> when it builds the app, so the relative file paths will be correct
> anywhere. Add the entire folder of modules in Copy Files, you don't need to
> include individual files. If you use this method, just refer to the module
> stack by its short name.
> >
> > For example, if your modules are inside a folder named "Resources" which
> contains other folders, including a "FolderA":
> >   Stack1  Resouces/FolderA/Stack1.livecode
> >
> > When a script calls 'go stack "stack1"' LC will look at the stackfiles
> to get the path. It's pretty easy to set up because the inspector includes
> a button that lets you choose a stack and then fills out the correct path
> automatically.
> >
> >
> > For scripted paths: The specialFolderPath("resources") points to the
> folder containing the stack that called it. What I usually do is write a
> filepath function and put it into the splash's stack script. On startup I
> put the splash in use so that all other stacks can see it.  All navigation
> goes through this handler. Because it's in a single place,
> specialFolderPath("resources") is always relative to the splash stack.
> >
> > A very simplified example:
> >
> > function getFilePath pFolder,pStack
> >  -- pFolder can be a single folder or a path through more than one folder
> >  if last char of pFolder <> slash then put slash after pFolder
> >  put specialFolderPath("resouces") & slash & pFolder & pStack into tPath
> >  put ".livecode" after tPath -- omit if you pass the extension in the
> pStack parameter
> >  return tPath
> > end getFilePath
> >
> > Call it like this:
> >
> > put getFilePath("FolderA","Stack1.livecode") into tFilePath
> > or:
> > put getFilePath("FolderA/FolderB/FolderC","Stack1") into tFilePath
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> > HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Someone has a copy of the last version of LiveCode to support PowerPC MacOS Classic machines?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Thanks a lot Richmond!

> On 15 Jan 2022, at 18:51, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Old and mouldy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qslejp8mq5tuges/revolution.sit?dl=0
> 
> On 15.01.22 20:15, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hey Folks,
>> 
>> I’m in the mood to build some hobby toys for old classic macs, just to amuse 
>> myself.
>> 
>> Anyone here has a copy of the last version of Runtime Revolution to support 
>> PowerPC based Macs running classic Mac OS?
>> 
>> I used to have a license for them, but I have no idea how to get that 
>> license, or how to get that software.
>> 
>> Best
>> Andre
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Someone has a copy of the last version of LiveCode to support PowerPC MacOS Classic machines?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hey Folks,

I’m in the mood to build some hobby toys for old classic macs, just to amuse 
myself.

Anyone here has a copy of the last version of Runtime Revolution to support 
PowerPC based Macs running classic Mac OS?

I used to have a license for them, but I have no idea how to get that license, 
or how to get that software.

Best
Andre
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Re: [ANN] Release 10.0.0 DP-1

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Double check if this is not CORS related. It is very easy to have a request
fail because of wrong CORS headers.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 at 15:00, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 2021-12-14 13:50, Rolf Kocherhans via use-livecode wrote:
> > First of all thanks for the WebAssembly HTML5 implementation. This is
> > really great stuff !
> >
> > For instance all my URL stuff (loading a stack on same domain) is
> > unfortunately not working anymore.
> >
> > Also, all the PHP scripts which I used to access, which downloaded
> > stuff from other domains and then displayed
> > the result in the Browser don't work anymore.
> >
> >
> > Is this just me - or is it just not implemented yet ?
>
> I don't think it is only you - at least one other person has mentioned
> on the forums that their URL operations are not working either.
>
> What url operations are you using?
>
> The reason I ask is because the engine only has built-in support for
> `load url` currently - the other syntax is implemented by a libURL
> 'driver' and I have a suspicion that the latter may be currently broken.
>
> Warmest Regards,
>
> Mark.
>
> P.S. And yes, this is high on the list to investigate in more depth and
> fix!
>
> --
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
>
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Re: [ANN] Release 10.0.0 DP-1

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Brave, Edge, and Chrome are all using the same engine. They should perform
the same. IIRC Firefox still has the best WASM performance, mostly because
it was invented there and they had more time to optimize.

That the way the web browsers works is that "they really hate opening local
HTML files with file:// protocol". Opening a file like that will switch on
a lot of protection in the browser and restrict many APIs. The correct way
to test WASM files is by running a local web server and opening it using
HTTPS (or HTTP if you must).

Be aware that the most important change regarding performance between WASM
and the previous ASM.JS based engine will not be visible when running a
local server. To load an ASM.JS based webapp, the browser needs to fetch
all the files before loading them into memory and parsing them. The new
WASM technology allows a browser to load the files while the transfer still
happening. It is a streaming kind of tech. This means that besides all the
other benefits, you don't need to deal with the latency of waiting for
transfers to complete before the app starts to load. When running locally,
the transfer is so fast that you can see this benefit, but try placing
those files in a remote server and the difference should be night and day,
specially for really large builds.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 at 09:34, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Panos. That kind of works. It always opens in the default browser
> i.e. trying to select another browser as the test target has no effect.  Is
> this a known bug?
>
> From test/save with browser closed (compile to standalone, then let IDE
> launch browser):
> Load time LC 10 - 5 secs
> Load time LC 9.6.1 - 7 secs
>
> Loading same saved stack with browser already open (re-using URL):
> Load time LC 10 - 2 secs
> Load time LC 9.6.1 - 5 secs
>
> I tested with both Brave and Edge, but couldn't detect any difference in
> load speed between them.
>
> These tests were just wall clock time.
>
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 3:48 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Bernard,
> >
> > Trying to open the local html file will fail due to CORS - Firefox may or
> > may not work - I think it needs some tweaks, and not sure if this is
> still
> > possible in the latest versions. We probably need to update this lesson.
> >
> > The correct way to test is to use the Development -> Test Target ->
>  > your browser> and then Development -> Test
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Panos
> > --
> >
> >
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Re: Starter Plan offer - China users

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

To be honest, if “always being able to launch standalone” is a concern for the 
developer, then they shouldn’t be using the Starter Plan. 

In my understanding the Starter Plan is a personal experience, it is available 
so that one can learn programming and use it to build their own tools. If 
someone wants to ship software, they should be using Standard Plan or above.

> On 27 Sep 2021, at 19:54, Glen Bojsza via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> What happens if the user is on an airplane and wants to use the app?
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 2:26 PM Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> The starter plan for LiveCode is described:
>> 
>> "On the Starter plan, if you cancel your subscription your apps will also
>> stop working. If you need to build apps that work forever, you need the
>> Standard plan.”
>> 
>> This seems to imply that Starter plan apps “phone home” to LiveCode when
>> they open to check the status of the developer’s subscription.
>> 
>> A heads up for anyone contemplating the use of this plan for app users in
>> China—the Great Firewall is very blocking these days. If the “phone call”
>> connection is required, the application may not open dependably.
>> 
>> I have experience with Internet blocking issues in China. It’s an
>> alternate online reality there…
>> 
>> Peter Bogdanoff
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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I’ll just add that a couple of pints never means exactly two pints….

Language is a very fluid thing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 8 Sep 2021, at 23:14, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Btw. this is how Merriam-Webster thinks about couple, few and several.
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/couple-few-several-use 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 09.09.2021 um 00:08 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> More than three. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
 Am 09.09.2021 um 00:04 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 :
>>> 
>>> Then what does a few mean? 
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
 On Sep 8, 2021, at 14:49 , matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
  wrote:
 
 How lucky we Germans are with having to write some words in capitals. ;) 
 
 'ein Paar' (a couple)  means 2
 'ein Paar Schuhe' means a pair of shoes
 
 'ein paar' means two or three or somewhere in the range.
 'ein paar Schuhe' means 2 or 3 or somewhere in the range shoes 
 
 
 In the English lessons in school  we learned  that for example  'a couple 
 of days' meant 2 or 3 or somewhere in that range.
 And when we used  'couple' as a noun then it was meant as  2 that belong 
 to each other or however you would call that.
 e.g. married couple, bird couple. That's the way i use 'couple" now for 
 more than 40 years. 
 
 Don't tell me that i was wrong more than 40 years. ;) 
 
 
> Am 08.09.2021 um 21:54 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> My husband said the same when I told him about this thread. "Couple" 
> means two. I said yes, but colloquially it can mean "two or three or 
> somewhere in that range." We almost started a longer discussion about it, 
> but I reminded him of our 30+ years of ongoing talk about a "fact" so we 
> both stopped.
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: LiveCode 10 - what are your thoughts on the new features?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Alex,

> On 8 Sep 2021, at 01:33, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I just don't understand this one, so no comment.


As I understand, this is LC version of the “spread operator”.  It allows you to 
spread the elements of an array as the arguments to a handler.

The code:

  put “an...@example.com <mailto:an...@example.com>” into tDataA[1]
  put “Andre Garzia” into tDataA[2]

  sendEmail …tDataA

Is syntactically equivalent to:


  put “an...@example.com <mailto:an...@example.com>” into tDataA[1]
  put “Andre Garzia” into tDataA[2]

  sendEmail tDataA[1], tDataA[2]

Which means that you can code the “sendEmail” command to have two string 
arguments instead of an array, as shown below:

  command sendEmail pEmail, pFullName
// send your email
  end sendEmail

The spread operator will pass every array element as an argument to the 
handler. 

It would be beneficial if this feature would also come paired a “rest operator” 
that collected extra arguments in an array, so that we could declare the 
“sendEmail” handler as

  command sendEmail pEmail, pFullName, …pMoreArgumentsA
// stuff
  end sendEmail

This way, if the call uses an array that contains more than two elements, the 
remaining parameters are collected in the final “pMoreArgumentsA” array. That 
if what I would like to have, LC didn’t say anything about this but it is very 
common in other languages to implement both operators at the same time.

In the case of LiveCode there is an alternative though. We can use “paramCount” 
and “param()” to grab the extra parameters, but that requires us coding it 
while something like a “rest operator” do that for us automatically.
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I mean the script editor mostly but also the rest of the ide has a bit of jank. 
Laying out interfaces on Windows has been worse than doing it on a Mac. The 
worse offender is the script editor though.

> On 7 Sep 2021, at 23:28, Scott Morrow via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre, when you say “so bad” do you mean the script editor or… ?
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2021, at 12:57 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
>> switch back to a mac...
> 
> 
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Re: IDE performance (Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition)

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

to be honest, the IDE on Windows has been so bad for me that it caused me to 
switch back to a mac...

> On 7 Sep 2021, at 09:00, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was wondering this too: when Lagi mentioned 'fix the IDE' I thought this 
> might be a reference to some of a number of usabiity snags - it didn't occur 
> to me that it was just speed.
> 
> I develop on a nine-year old MacBook and have never noticed a speed issue 
> with the IDE. I wonder if it's possible that the Windows IDE has been 
> affected by the same issue to do with manipulating quantities of text that 
> I've been talking about on the list, which Mark W has suggested might be 
> fixed in a release very shortly? (Seems unlikely!) But definitely seems to be 
> something platform specific.
> 
> Lagi, if you're still able to access a 6.7 installer, could you confirm 
> whether the IDE under 6.7 has the same problem on your set up? The problems 
> with speed on Windows that I'm seeing came in after 6.7.
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 03/09/2021 03:05, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi Lagi,
>> I have the LC IDE running on a remote Windows Server with 1 core (2Ghz) and
>> 2GB ram. It struggles at times but is still usable (truly amazingly).
>> Otherwise, I run it on Windows through Parallels Desktop with VM 8 cores
>> and 8GB on an 8core 32GB Macbook Pro. Saving a stack takes 15 times longer
>> in Win compared to the same machine in macOS. Other than the slight lag and
>> bugginess of the script editor this is the only slowness I see. Unicode
>> slows down some procedures but that is not limited to the IDE.
>> I hope you can work out what is slowing it down to treacle speeds for you.
>> It sounds a bit odd to me.
>> On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 00:16, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>>> But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running on a
>>> 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
>>> treacle.
>>> <<
>>> 
>>> As I don't recognize this experience can you put a video of your experience
>>> on the cloud?  I don't run on hardware anything like as beefy as you have.
>>> The only machine I've got where LC is slow is one where Windows itself is
>>> really slow (a 4yo laptop).  On my two Apple machines (M1 and Intel, the
>>> latter is 5yo) it is not "like treacle", neither is it slow on my i5
>>> Windows machine.
>>> 
>>> It's a bit hard for LC Ltd to identify and fix something if it's only found
>>> in some odd cases.
>>> 
>>> Regards, Bernard
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 10:34 PM Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
 Trials of 14 days or even 30 days are a waste of time. I can install
 something and use it for a couple of days - then life / work gets in the
 way
 so It sits on the computer for 31 days and then times out.
 
  You then have to waste your time and the companies to get an extension,
 and by the time they answer
 you get cheesed off and remove the  program.
 
 The BEST trial is the one that lasts for 30 actual executions or 6 months
 (whichever comes first).
 
 This stops the clever  SOD who decides to keep it running without exiting
 for 6 months but it times out anyway.
 Even better if he keeps it on for 2 days it counts as "executing" twice
>>> so
 it will last 30 days.
 
 This means I have 30 days over a 6 month period to really test it without
 rushing.
 
 The people who would game the system are the people who won't be loyal
 customer anyway, so not giving a worthwhile trial period handicaps those
 who want to give it a good try.
 
 You can also put a  nag screen  at the start of any executable with an OK
 button  link to a special discounted price - free marketing (what a
 brilliant Idea, why didn't I think of it?).
 
 But the best way of selling it is to FIX the bloody IDE - I am running
>>> on a
 16G 1 year Old 8th Generation CoreI7  processor and it  STILL runs like
 treacle.
 
 If I downloaded it today as a new person it would be off my machine in
>>> less
 than 30 minutes.
 
 You could also use this as your "marketing" system by "giving it away"
>>> to
 schools for nothing and without the trial period but the nag screen.
 
 It can then be used by the students to learn programming at no cost - and
 some of the students parent might pony up for a paid for version at a
 student price (with no expiring standalones of cours - the most stupid
>>> idea
 of the lot so far)
 
 
 Anyway Kevin, have I/we wastedour time again putting out these cranky,
 stupid and not workable suggestions?.
 
 Lagi
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Thu, 2 Sept 2021 at 15:55, Kevin Miller via use-livecode <
 use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
> We *are* 

9.6.4-gm-1 what?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

So, I launched 9.6.4 today and got a notification to download 9.6.4-gm-1, this 
is not a version scheme that LC has been using before. I remember them being DP 
for developer previews, then becoming RC for release candidates, and then 
stable. I don’t remember Gold Masters in their versions, which I assume would 
be the stable version. 

Now, if I’m downloading 9.6.4-gm-1 now, what have I been running with 9.6.4? I 
though that was the stable version.

Oh, and the download page still doesn’t list past DP and RCs.

A
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Re: Suggestion: Non-Appbuilding Community Edition

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Don’t know how many people here remember that they tried that approach with 
Dreamcard. I really like it, but in the end it didn’t work for the company. I 
see many members here in the list saying “what should be done”, “what would 
have worked”, and I wanted to remember every one that while speculation is fun 
and a healthy practice, it is not necessarily a representation of truth. We 
don’t know what could have worked, very few people here know the day to day 
managing of LiveCode Ltd to judge what are their best options. What people here 
can do is lobby from the user’s point of view, and yet I see a ton of people 
“playing CEO with these emails”, that is not productive IMHO.

Let’s take a step back for a second and realise as a community we lack many 
things that other programming language communities have. We do have a very 
healthy mailing list, forum, and occasional conference. We’re all friends, and 
many of us have known each other for decades. Those are things that many, if 
not most, programming language communities do not have. And yet we have not 
fostered many of the ancillary things that most communities do. 

* We have very few open source projects in the community, and the ones we have 
have very few contributors.
* We have not build anything like a package manager to help us share code 
around. The IDE built-in extension store, and code sharing features are 
extremely simple.
* We don’t have an ecosystem of tools and libraries around. We have some tools 
and some libraries.
* We don’t have many people writing blogs, making videos, writing books, and 
fostering the community. 
* There are very few services and companies besides LiveCode Ltd offering 
products to the community.


All items mentioned above are important regardless if LiveCode Community 
Edition is around or not. Without those things, it is very hard for any FOSS 
initiative to blossom. Without those things, it is very hard to make a 
programming language community feel vibrant and alive. We had eight years of LC 
Community Edition, and as a community we haven’t really cared to nurture it. 
Very few people contributed patches. We all loved having it, we were just not 
putting enough care into it. And that is how FOSS dies.

What is most important is that the Community Edition was not the on-ramp path 
to attract new users and then lead them towards a commercial license. What 
happened was the opposite, Community users stayed with the Community Edition 
and many paying users migrated to the FOSS offer. If the business model of LC 
was different, if they had structured it all differently, maybe it could have 
worked, but that is just speculation, we don’t know it might have failed in 
such manner that LC Ltd would be dead.

What I do know, and I know quite a lot about programming language communities, 
is that without more than just a mailing list and forum, you can’t have a 
vibrant community. Without a community that feels engaging and alive, you don’t 
get new users.

I’m happy paying for my license because I can see the value LC provides me, and 
how my money directly affects their ability to output quality stuff. I love 
FOSS, but I’d rather have a healthy LC Ltd around with the resources to keep 
building amazing goodies. We as a community can build all the cool stuff around 
the proprietary language, there is a ton of things we could have that would 
make this a more lively place. 

The question is, who here wants to build stuff? 

A
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Re: LiveCode Community - anyone up for maintaining the community edition?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

People had eight years to contribute to the community edition, and they
didn't. I don't think people would now start caring for and devoting the
necessary energy to maintain the community edition. It is because people
didn't organise and contribute that this recent change happened.

On Wed, 1 Sept 2021 at 12:56, David Bovill via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Here are my thoughts on this - and a request.
>
> Yes - it’s not a surprising move by Livecode Ltd - they were clearly
> struggling supporting the community aspect and taking the language to the
> next level and they need more revenue to do that.
>
> The question is (for my part at least) - what to do about this. Personally
> I have never seen a future for a closed source language, and the projects I
> work on will not fund. Projects developed in closed source - especially by
> a small company. So I have a choice, switch language, or look to continue
> with developing with the community edition and help build an open source
> community around that. The former (switching languages) is relatively easy,
> the latter a lot of work.
>
> I’m happy to have a company like Livecode Ltd create closed source
> products  that I can use, so how to have both an open source language, and
> the ability to work with closed source products developed by Livecode Ltd?
> As I see it the only option is for those interested in the community to
> take control and responsibility for the core language.
>
> There are a number of options with regard to future language development,
> that would put the language on an even par with other open source
> languages, and there are also new ways to finance such initiatives. It
> would be valuable to get together as a community and discuss those.
>
> How about having a community conference to look at what is possible? We
> can do this online and showcase new and existing open source projects and
> discuss the opportunities this new environment presents?
>
>
> Schedule a call with me
> On 1 Sep 2021, 12:18 +0100, David V Glasgow via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>, wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 1 Sep 2021, at 11:26 am, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > There you had a group of programmers who supposedly loved what
> > > HyperCard could do, but they only loved that concept as a historical
> > > artefact, not as a tool available to people now.
> >
> > Abso-frogging-lutely.
> >
> > The really interesting questions are “why?" and “Is there anything we
> could do about it?”
> >
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> >
> > David Glasgow
> > Consultant Forensic & Clinical Psychologist
> > Carlton Glasgow Partnership
> > Director, Child & Family Training, York
> > Honorary Professor
> > Sexual Offences, Crime and Misconduct Research Unit
> > Nottingham Trent University
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: Can't reach license server...

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Dear Heather,

Can you clarify what will happen to our current licenses? For example, I have 
an Indy license that goes into March 2022, how does that translate to the new 
offering? What features do I get?

It would be great if the Pricing FAQ could include some text on that topic.

Best
A

> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:51, Heather Laine via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> There was a temporary license problem which should now be fixed. If you are 
> still seeing it please let me know in support.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Heather
> 
> Heather Laine
> Customer Services Manager
> LiveCode Ltd
> www.livecode.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:49, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> That’s why I use the manual license method.
>> 
>> Hopefully they are aware of the problem and are working on it.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> When trying to launch LiveCode, I keep getting errors contacting the 
>>> license server and I see that Livecode.com is currently down for 
>>> maintenance, so hopefully, this is a very temporary issue.
>>> 
>>> However, is anyone else having problems running LC due to not getting a 
>>> license validated?
>>> 
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Re: 9.6.4?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

yes, just saw the new changes. It felt like going on a scavenge hunt. 

So they’re basically changing a lot in terms of license and offering, that came 
out a bit unexpected but I am happy with the changes. Did some math there and 
it will cost me a bit more than I’m currently paying to get all features I 
want. But, if I get only the features I actually need, then it becomes cheaper. 
:-) so, I guess this is good, it allows us to add stuff to our licenses as they 
become needed.

Also looking forward to the changes in LiveCode 10, specially M1 runtimes.

> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:49, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> And there seems to be new pricing. One can now create customized LC 
> subscriptions.. So one can for example could select only macOS and iOS as 
> deployment platform. Any combination is now possible. 
> I think that is a really good new change.
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 31.08.2021 um 17:45 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> not only that but community and community plus also vanished...
>> 
>>> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:41, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> And where are the Livecode Server downloads?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 31.08.2021 um 17:35 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>>> :
>>>> 
>>>> Something funky is going on the website. It was off for maintenance a 
>>>> couple minutes ago and then all of a sudden, I receive a notification from 
>>>> the updater stack to download 9.6.4
>>>> 
>>>> There was no release cycle for 9.6.4. The release is marked as stable. 
>>>> Where were the DPs and RCs for that release?
>>>> 
>>>> Went to https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ 
>>>> <https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/> and wow, all the DP and RC are 
>>>> gone. Only stable versions are listed. What is going on?
>>>> ___
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>>> 
>>> 
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LiveCode community edition is gone

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

here is the announcement: https://livecode.org/

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Re: 9.6.4?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I bet someone changed the script that generates that page and it simply failed 
to push the correct artifacts to the server. Anyway, let’s wait to see what 
they say about it. I’m sure someone from HQ will chip in soon.

> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:45, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> 
> not only that but community and community plus also vanished...
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:41, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> And where are the Livecode Server downloads?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Am 31.08.2021 um 17:35 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Something funky is going on the website. It was off for maintenance a 
>>> couple minutes ago and then all of a sudden, I receive a notification from 
>>> the updater stack to download 9.6.4
>>> 
>>> There was no release cycle for 9.6.4. The release is marked as stable. 
>>> Where were the DPs and RCs for that release?
>>> 
>>> Went to https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ 
>>> <https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/> and wow, all the DP and RC are 
>>> gone. Only stable versions are listed. What is going on?
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: 9.6.4?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

not only that but community and community plus also vanished...

> On 31 Aug 2021, at 16:41, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> And where are the Livecode Server downloads?
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 31.08.2021 um 17:35 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Something funky is going on the website. It was off for maintenance a couple 
>> minutes ago and then all of a sudden, I receive a notification from the 
>> updater stack to download 9.6.4
>> 
>> There was no release cycle for 9.6.4. The release is marked as stable. Where 
>> were the DPs and RCs for that release?
>> 
>> Went to https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ 
>> <https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/> and wow, all the DP and RC are 
>> gone. Only stable versions are listed. What is going on?
>> ___
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9.6.4?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Something funky is going on the website. It was off for maintenance a couple 
minutes ago and then all of a sudden, I receive a notification from the updater 
stack to download 9.6.4

There was no release cycle for 9.6.4. The release is marked as stable. Where 
were the DPs and RCs for that release?

Went to https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ 
 and wow, all the DP and RC are gone. 
Only stable versions are listed. What is going on?
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Re: [iOS] possible console bug

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Panos,

Hope all is well with you my friend, thanks a lot for the speedy reply.

I think things might have changed in Big Sur because I see a different console 
app. Mine doesn’t have a way to switch to this “iPhone 8” label. Below is a 
screenshot from my console app:

https://andregarzia.com/files/console-window.png 
<https://andregarzia.com/files/console-window.png>

The “system.log” being shown is definitely the iPhone 8 Simulator one, not only 
because of the content but also because option-clicking the file on top shows 
the path to it and it is coming from inside the CoreSimulator folder.

Still, I don’t see any output from LiveCode standalone in it.

Best
A


> On 28 Jul 2021, at 14:19, panagiotis m via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Andre,
> 
> It works as expected for me.
> 
> MacOS Mojave
> Xcode 11.3
> iOS 13.3 Simulator
> 
> In the simulator go to Debug -> Open System Log
> This opens the Console app
> In the Console window, in the left hand side, you should see the name of
> the simulator (e.g. "iPhone 8"). Click on it.
> There will be a lot of logs, so I suggest to filter the output by the
> standalone name (e.g. type the standalone name, as it appears in the
> General tab of the S/B in the top right Search box of the Console window)
> 
> I have a button that does "put the milliseconds && "==="
> and I can see the expected output in the console logs every time I press
> the button in the simulator.
> 
> Cheers,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2021 at 16:04, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I’m just bumping this thread because I haven’t been able to see any log
>> information when using the Simulator.
>> 
>> Can more people confirm this? Is this a bug, and if so who owns that bug
>> LC or Apple?
>> 
>> It becomes really hard to debug a mobile application when you can’t see
>> logs on the Simulator.
>> 
>> I made a recipe stack here, but I want to be sure before I fill a bug
>> report.
>> 
>> Best
>> A
>> 
>>> On 12 Jul 2021, at 23:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Andre,
>>> 
>>> tested now with LC 9.6.3 and Xcode 12.4, as i am still on Catalina.
>> Took me some time to download Xcode.
>>> 
>>> i tried here with 2 different physical devices (iPhone 7 iOS 14.4 and
>> iPhone 12 iOS 14.6) and was able to see the output in the Console log
>> pressing the 'open console' button in Xcode's 'Devices and Simulators'
>> (shift CMD 2)
>>> 
>>> I selected my device in that tool and pressed 'open console'. I had the
>> 'Now' mode activated and filtered for my output. I could see the output.
>>> 
>>> But i still do not see it when using the simulator.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Matthias
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Am 12.07.2021 um 17:13 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12 Jul 2021, at 16:02, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you run the app on a real iOS device, do you see your log messages
>> in the device log for it? Could it be Apple are now funneling simulator
>> logs into a pane in Xcode - like they do for devices, rather than have them
>> go to the macOS system log?
>>>> 
>>>> Running the app on a real device doesn’t show the log either.
>>>> 
>>>> The organiser window of XCode has a specific “Open Console” button on
>> the pane for the device you selected.
>>>> 
>>>> It opens the console and it doesn’t contain the data I’m trying to
>> output from LiveCode. You need to tell it to stream the console data from
>> the phone, it delivers a ton of garbage. Filtering by process or by the
>> string I’m sending — which is a fixed string at this point since I’m just
>> trying to get the console working — yields no result whatsoever.
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Re: [iOS] possible console bug

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I’m just bumping this thread because I haven’t been able to see any log 
information when using the Simulator. 

Can more people confirm this? Is this a bug, and if so who owns that bug LC or 
Apple?

It becomes really hard to debug a mobile application when you can’t see logs on 
the Simulator.

I made a recipe stack here, but I want to be sure before I fill a bug report.

Best
A

> On 12 Jul 2021, at 23:58, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre,
> 
> tested now with LC 9.6.3 and Xcode 12.4, as i am still on Catalina.  Took me 
> some time to download Xcode.
> 
> i tried here with 2 different physical devices (iPhone 7 iOS 14.4 and iPhone 
> 12 iOS 14.6) and was able to see the output in the Console log pressing the 
> 'open console' button in Xcode's 'Devices and Simulators' (shift CMD 2)
> 
> I selected my device in that tool and pressed 'open console'. I had the 'Now' 
> mode activated and filtered for my output. I could see the output.
> 
> But i still do not see it when using the simulator.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 12.07.2021 um 17:13 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12 Jul 2021, at 16:02, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you run the app on a real iOS device, do you see your log messages in 
>>> the device log for it? Could it be Apple are now funneling simulator logs 
>>> into a pane in Xcode - like they do for devices, rather than have them go 
>>> to the macOS system log?
>> 
>> Running the app on a real device doesn’t show the log either. 
>> 
>> The organiser window of XCode has a specific “Open Console” button on the 
>> pane for the device you selected. 
>> 
>> It opens the console and it doesn’t contain the data I’m trying to output 
>> from LiveCode. You need to tell it to stream the console data from the 
>> phone, it delivers a ton of garbage. Filtering by process or by the string 
>> I’m sending — which is a fixed string at this point since I’m just trying to 
>> get the console working — yields no result whatsoever.
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Re: httpd library

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Bernard,

Thanks for the kind words my friend. :-) I can barely believe it has been 15 
years already, it feels like yesterday.

Don’t worry about the database library, I’m just going to relicense it as MIT 
which will make it free to use for all use cases.  I’m no longer providing 
support or selling software, I want to focus on books. So, if you’d like to 
support me, you can grab a book at:

https://andregarzia.com/books.html  

If you don’t want a book, but want to send some money anyway, you can “buy me a 
coffee” at:

https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia 

Warm regards
Andre

> On 26 Jul 2021, at 00:08, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andre
> 
> It was probably 15 years ago when you said "I want to build a http daemon
> in Revolution".
> 
> You were a young man :)
> 
> BTW I've started using your dblibrary recently. If I pay for a license,
> will you get the money?  Can you provide a link for where to make the
> payment?
> 
> Regards, Bernard
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: httpd library

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Oh, I see… I thought the problem was getting it to work. Let me post there 
instead.

> On 25 Jul 2021, at 23:26, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre,
> 
> the original poster in the forum
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11=207421=20e6800951126812dc379fe4ebe7b7cd#p207421
>  
> <https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=11=207421=20e6800951126812dc379fe4ebe7b7cd#p207421>
> 
> wants to allow to upload a csv file from a client computer to the web server 
> on the mobile app using a html form.
> And that is not working.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 26.07.2021 um 00:18 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
>> 
>> Just an update, the httpd library works on mobile. The httpd library I’m 
>> mentioning here is the one bundled with LiveCode. I think Malte built it, it 
>> is very similar to the one I built in the past but I am sure it is a bit 
>> smarter.
>> 
>> I’ve created a demo stack at: 
>> https://andregarzia.com/files/mobile-web-server-test.livecode.gz 
>> <https://andregarzia.com/files/mobile-web-server-test.livecode.gz> 
>> <https://andregarzia.com/files/mobile-web-server-test.livecode.gz 
>> <https://andregarzia.com/files/mobile-web-server-test.livecode.gz>> that I 
>> tested on Android (on a real device) and on the iPhone Simulator on my 
>> macOS, both worked.
>> 
>> Apparently there is a bug in the 9.6.3-rc-2. If you set “allow http 
>> connections” on Android, it fails to build the app. I had to go to the 
>> custom properties editor to delete that prop manually because I couldn’t 
>> edit it on the standalone application settings after first trying to use it.
>> 
>> Hope this helps Bernard.
>> 
>>> On 25 Jul 2021, at 22:30, Andre Garzia  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I love when you folks call me a young man :-) I’ve been 41 for a while now 
>>> and no one asks for my ID when I buy a beer anymore.
>>> 
>>> Well, back on topic, is there something wrong with the HTTPD library that 
>>> LiveCode ships right now? It should serve for the purposes your friend 
>>> wants.
>>> 
>>> I’m going to test it here to see if works (because I’m curious) and get 
>>> back to this list with results.
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> A
>>> 
>>>> On 25 Jul 2021, at 18:50, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Rick
>>>> 
>>>> Normally I'd agree with you (ever since Andre piped-up as a young man
>>>> saying he was building a webserver in Livecode, I've thought "just use one
>>>> of the many available webservers..")
>>>> 
>>>> However this user wants this running on a mobile device.  So he either
>>>> gives up that idea or he starts going down the path of httpd.mc or Andre's
>>>> webserver.
>>>> 
>>>> I was just trying to save him all the work that other's have done before.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards, Bernard
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:42 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Bernard,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The user should set up an LC Web Server with a database connected to it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The LC Apps should all then send information to the LC Server, and the
>>>>> Server
>>>>> will send information back to the LC Apps.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think any other way is going to be a huge waste of time and energy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good luck,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rick
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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Re: httpd library

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Just an update, the httpd library works on mobile. The httpd library I’m 
mentioning here is the one bundled with LiveCode. I think Malte built it, it is 
very similar to the one I built in the past but I am sure it is a bit smarter.

I’ve created a demo stack at: 
https://andregarzia.com/files/mobile-web-server-test.livecode.gz 
<https://andregarzia.com/files/mobile-web-server-test.livecode.gz> that I 
tested on Android (on a real device) and on the iPhone Simulator on my macOS, 
both worked.

Apparently there is a bug in the 9.6.3-rc-2. If you set “allow http 
connections” on Android, it fails to build the app. I had to go to the custom 
properties editor to delete that prop manually because I couldn’t edit it on 
the standalone application settings after first trying to use it.

Hope this helps Bernard.

> On 25 Jul 2021, at 22:30, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> 
> I love when you folks call me a young man :-) I’ve been 41 for a while now 
> and no one asks for my ID when I buy a beer anymore.
> 
> Well, back on topic, is there something wrong with the HTTPD library that 
> LiveCode ships right now? It should serve for the purposes your friend wants.
> 
> I’m going to test it here to see if works (because I’m curious) and get back 
> to this list with results.
> 
> Best
> A
> 
>> On 25 Jul 2021, at 18:50, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Rick
>> 
>> Normally I'd agree with you (ever since Andre piped-up as a young man
>> saying he was building a webserver in Livecode, I've thought "just use one
>> of the many available webservers..")
>> 
>> However this user wants this running on a mobile device.  So he either
>> gives up that idea or he starts going down the path of httpd.mc or Andre's
>> webserver.
>> 
>> I was just trying to save him all the work that other's have done before.
>> 
>> Regards, Bernard
>> 
>> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:42 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Bernard,
>>> 
>>> The user should set up an LC Web Server with a database connected to it.
>>> 
>>> The LC Apps should all then send information to the LC Server, and the
>>> Server
>>> will send information back to the LC Apps.
>>> 
>>> I think any other way is going to be a huge waste of time and energy.
>>> 
>>> Good luck,
>>> 
>>> Rick
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: httpd library

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I love when you folks call me a young man :-) I’ve been 41 for a while now and 
no one asks for my ID when I buy a beer anymore.

Well, back on topic, is there something wrong with the HTTPD library that 
LiveCode ships right now? It should serve for the purposes your friend wants.

I’m going to test it here to see if works (because I’m curious) and get back to 
this list with results.

Best
A

> On 25 Jul 2021, at 18:50, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Rick
> 
> Normally I'd agree with you (ever since Andre piped-up as a young man
> saying he was building a webserver in Livecode, I've thought "just use one
> of the many available webservers..")
> 
> However this user wants this running on a mobile device.  So he either
> gives up that idea or he starts going down the path of httpd.mc or Andre's
> webserver.
> 
> I was just trying to save him all the work that other's have done before.
> 
> Regards, Bernard
> 
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 4:42 PM Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Bernard,
>> 
>> The user should set up an LC Web Server with a database connected to it.
>> 
>> The LC Apps should all then send information to the LC Server, and the
>> Server
>> will send information back to the LC Apps.
>> 
>> I think any other way is going to be a huge waste of time and energy.
>> 
>> Good luck,
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [iOS] possible console bug

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 12 Jul 2021, at 16:02, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you run the app on a real iOS device, do you see your log messages in the 
> device log for it? Could it be Apple are now funneling simulator logs into a 
> pane in Xcode - like they do for devices, rather than have them go to the 
> macOS system log?

Running the app on a real device doesn’t show the log either. 

The organiser window of XCode has a specific “Open Console” button on the pane 
for the device you selected. 

It opens the console and it doesn’t contain the data I’m trying to output from 
LiveCode. You need to tell it to stream the console data from the phone, it 
delivers a ton of garbage. Filtering by process or by the string I’m sending — 
which is a fixed string at this point since I’m just trying to get the console 
working — yields no result whatsoever.
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[iOS] possible bug with javascriptHandlers on iOS

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I started a thread today about a possible bug with using “put without a target” 
on iOS. That bug appeared while I was trying to debug a problem with a mobile 
app we’re developing. It is an odd bug, we have it working on macOS Desktop 
inside the IDE and on Android, but it fails on iOS. The problem is a simple 
single like handler that executes something alone the lines of:

  do “liveCode.myapp_RecordScrollPosition(window.scrollY)” in widget “browser”

The handler is not named that of course but you get the idea. The 
“myapp_RecordScrollPosition” is in the message path, and is added to the 
“javascriptHandlers” property of the widget. The proof that the code is sound, 
is that it works on Android in a real device, and on desktop inside the IDE. 

I don’t understand why this code fails on iOS (both in the Simulator and on an 
iPhone 12 mini). 

Trying to debug this, I attempted to write to the console, so that I could see 
if the code is passing through the routines it should. I don’t have a business 
license, so I can use the remote debugger. I need to use old “put without 
target” calls. And then, they don’t work either.

I’ve already spent basically two days trying to debug why this fails. It fails 
silently. There is no error on LC side. I suspect it is something on the iOS 
WKWebView (or whatever is being used) side.

Anyone successfully calling LC from a browser widget on 9.6.3-rc-1 on iOS ?

Puzzled Regards
Andre
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Re: [iOS] possible console bug

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Mark,

That’s the problem, I’m looking at the system log on the iOS Simulator and 
there is no output for put without a target.

Om om
A

> On 12 Jul 2021, at 15:14, Mark Waddingham via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2021-07-12 15:01, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:
>> but it is supposed to work, right? Did this changed in some version?
> 
> Apple stopped piping stdout/stderr to 'console' a few years ago I think - 
> both on Desktop, and when looking at the device console for iOS.
> 
> In version 9.0 though we changed the behavior of `put` without a target. e.g.
> 
>   put "foo"
> 
> In the IDE this will output to the message box.
> 
> In -ui mode, this will write to stderr.
> 
> Otherwise (which will be the case on iOS / Android!) this will output to the 
> system log
>   - using NSLog on Desktop/iOS
>   - using android.Log class on Android
>   - using OutpuDebugString on Win32
>   - using syslog on Linux
>   - using JS console on html5
> 
> Warmest Regards,
> 
> Mark.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
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Re: [iOS] possible console bug

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

but it is supposed to work, right? Did this changed in some version?

> On 12 Jul 2021, at 14:45, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I tried here with  LC9.6.2 under Catalina. It doesn't work either. 
> 
> 
>> Am 12.07.2021 um 14:49 schrieb Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Hi Friends,
>> 
>> I’m writing here before I fill up a bug report because I don’t know if I’m 
>> doing things correctly. 
>> 
>> From what I remember, if we did a “put” to stdout, it would appear in the 
>> system log on iOS Simulator. Is that still the case?
>> 
>> I have an empty stack here with a button with the following script:
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>> put “this doesn’t work.”
>> put “it still doesn’t work”
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> When I run that stack on the iOS Simulator, and select the “system log” menu 
>> item from the Simulator application, I can see a log of debug information 
>> but I can’t see any of my own “put” messages. No matter how many times I 
>> click the button.
>> 
>> Wasn’t that supposed to work?
>> 
>> This is MacOS Big Sur in a Macbook Air M1 running LiveCode 9.6.3-rc-1
>> 
>> Om om
>> Andre
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Re: [iOS] possible console bug

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Besides that original problem, I have another one which is that calls to “do … 
in widget ‘browser’” are not working on iOS Simulator but work fine on the 
Desktop and Android. The code has no branching for each system, it is the exact 
same code in all platforms. There is no error, it simply doesn’t work as if it 
was not there.

I’m finding all that very odd.

> On 12 Jul 2021, at 13:49, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> 
> Hi Friends,
> 
> I’m writing here before I fill up a bug report because I don’t know if I’m 
> doing things correctly. 
> 
> From what I remember, if we did a “put” to stdout, it would appear in the 
> system log on iOS Simulator. Is that still the case?
> 
> I have an empty stack here with a button with the following script:
> 
> on mouseUp
>  put “this doesn’t work.”
>  put “it still doesn’t work”
> end mouseUp
> 
> When I run that stack on the iOS Simulator, and select the “system log” menu 
> item from the Simulator application, I can see a log of debug information but 
> I can’t see any of my own “put” messages. No matter how many times I click 
> the button.
> 
> Wasn’t that supposed to work?
> 
> This is MacOS Big Sur in a Macbook Air M1 running LiveCode 9.6.3-rc-1
> 
> Om om
> Andre


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[iOS] possible console bug

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Friends,

I’m writing here before I fill up a bug report because I don’t know if I’m 
doing things correctly. 

From what I remember, if we did a “put” to stdout, it would appear in the 
system log on iOS Simulator. Is that still the case?

I have an empty stack here with a button with the following script:

on mouseUp
  put “this doesn’t work.”
  put “it still doesn’t work”
end mouseUp

When I run that stack on the iOS Simulator, and select the “system log” menu 
item from the Simulator application, I can see a log of debug information but I 
can’t see any of my own “put” messages. No matter how many times I click the 
button.

Wasn’t that supposed to work?

This is MacOS Big Sur in a Macbook Air M1 running LiveCode 9.6.3-rc-1

Om om
Andre
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Re: the systemversion shows wrong version # on Mac

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Tiemo,

This is not a bug.

MacOS Big Sur will identify itself as both 10.16.0 and 11.x. This is by design 
so that scripts checking for version compatibility can see Big Sur as just a 
minor version of 10.x

The version seen depends on both which SDK was used to compile the app, and 
also on the value of the environment variable called SYSTEM_VERSION_COMPAT.

Best
Andre

> On 7 May 2021, at 13:00, Tiemo via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> I am on macOS 11.2.3 and the systemversion shows 10.16.0?
> 
> It shows the same at least going back to 8.1.7
> 
> 
> 
> Do I have to multiply the systemversion by 1.1053 to get the real one?
> 
> 
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Enhancement request: show the execution contexts in debugger UI

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

I’ve just submit an enhancement request to add a pane to the script editor to 
show the execution contexts in the debugger UI. I hope others feel like this is 
a good enhancement and will join in to support it.

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23175 


Best
A
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Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I like verbose code that is full of comments. I often have to revisit code that 
has been made by me five or even ten years ago, and usually never touched again 
since then. I need to be able to understand it without relying on my memory 
from way back when. That is why I often prefer code that is easier to maintain 
and understand over terse code.

I understand that Jacque is not advocating for terseness, just for doing 
maintainable small codebases, which is exactly how I like to operate as well. 
In my mind, if a function is growing longer than the screen, then it is a 
really good candidate for breaking it up into smaller functions. 

As for the shadowing problem on the codebase I’m working, it is not really by 
design, it is how the code evolved. Mistakes were made, and now we’re all 
fixing them. It is just a good example how an attempt of RegEx based 
refactoring failed because the codebase had gotchas in it that I haven’t 
noticed before doing extensive refactoring and breaking stuff.

Variable shadowing is a dangerous thing, for me it sits alongside globals as 
king and queen of the kingdom of "stuff that will come back to haunt you”. 

And that is the main issue: Without a more comprehensive knowledge of the code 
in a script, you can’t really assume that all variables with the same name, 
point to the same variable. Trying a "rename symbol” kind of procedure that 
acts on the whole script, might end up renaming the wrong variables. That is 
part of what happened to me. This is specially dangerous when globals are 
involved, as the global is renamed in a script but maybe not in others. In 
systems that load and unload stacks in demand, you can’t be sure that all 
occurrences of that global are in memory for you to search, there might be 
stacks lying on disk that use it that you’re not aware. This can happen on 
large codebases that are trying to save memory by being smart with what they 
put in memory. As you can see, this has also happened to us.

> On 14 Apr 2021, at 23:19, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For my part, I call a function and put the result into a variable. I try not 
> to nest fucntions because I cannot easily tell what the result of each 
> function is, making it harder to troubleshoot, and also to read my own code! 
> For that reason my code is fairly verbose. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Apr 14, 2021, at 13:06 , Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Me:
>> 
 The biggest code is the most repetitive and least modular!
>> 
>> Jacqueline:
>> 
>>> Not always, but often. I try to aim for the smallest code base,
>>> so I think the contest should be to solve a complex problem
>>> with the least amount of code.
>> 
>> Yes, but not brevity for its own sake! Rather for maintainability,
>> efficiency, and to avoid the code-org messes that people try to
>> refactor their way out of after practicing bad habits.
>> 
>> The optimal balance of brevity with performance, readability, and 
>> maintainability is where we'll find the best code!
>> 
>> That'll be fairly tight code, but not always the very smallest.
>> I do love concise code; I've seen some whopping humongous scripts! :)
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> Curry Kenworthy
>> 
>> Custom Software Development
>> "Better Methods, Better Results"
>> LiveCode Training and Consulting
>> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> 
> 
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Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

That is the main issue, the code was using the wrong hungarian-lite prefixes. 
You’d see something like

  on myHandler pDataA
…
  end myHandler


But, lo and behold, on top of the script there would be something like

  local pDataA

Now, is that an argument to a handler? a script-local? It depends! Strict 
compilation mode doesn’t care about variable shadowing.

> On 13 Apr 2021, at 17:48, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre Garzia wrote:
> 
> > What I didn’t realise was that there was variable shadowing happening
> > in which handler arguments were named with the same name as script-
> > local variables, my smart replacing removed those arguments because
> > there was no need to redeclare the script-local vars. I didn’t realise
> > at that time, that those variables were real arguments being passed to
> > the handlers, they just happened to have the same name as script-local
> > vars in the same script and were in fact shadowing them.
> 
> Is this a case where "Strict Compilation Mode" or Hungarian-lite* notation 
> may have been useful?
> 
> 
> * http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/scriptstyle.html
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Safety boots are a must for developing safe code.

> On 13 Apr 2021, at 16:48, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's nothing short of a miracle that the shot didn't go INTO your foot. :-) 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
>> On Apr 13, 2021, at 03:05 , Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Let me tell you folks a recent story in which I tried to do exactly that and 
>> shot myself on the foot.
> 
> 
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Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 13 Apr 2021, at 16:28, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ouch. Don't do that.

I agree, that was not my decision. I maintaining this code but I’m not the 
original developer.
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Re: On the dangers of automated refactoring

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Peter,

This is neat!

I also have a small test library, but mine is way less complete than yours. I 
never released it because it was quite incomplete.

Maybe writing a tutorial or doing a small screencast showing it working might 
help people understand why it is important. I bet many here never used a unit 
testing library.

PS: How’s Red Lang going? :D

> On 13 Apr 2021, at 12:02, Peter W A Wood via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andre
> 
>> On 13 Apr 2021, at 18:05, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> We don’t even have unit testing libraries so that we can make sure our code 
>> works as expected.
> 
> I published a simple unit testing library on GitHub but it din’t get any 
> traction - https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-MiniTest 
> <https://github.com/PeterWAWood/LiveCode-MiniTest>
> 
> Peter
> 
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Re: We don't need a Player (was Re: New(?) Idea for Standalones)

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I like all that I read here. There are things that are really hard when 
building standalone apps that I don’t think should be handled by LC HQ, such as 
“adding AppleScript dictionary” to your app. This is harder than it seems and 
it involves plist manipulation, fancy sdef xml creation, etc. This is too large 
a product to develop with a small target base.

On the other hand, I think that the SB should create standalones that can 
actually be deployed, this means that it should be able to handle notarisation 
on the mac out-of-the-box.

> On 29 Mar 2021, at 22:49, Trevor DeVore via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 4:35 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I think we're all on the same page here.
>> 
> 
> :thumbs_up
> 
> -- 
> Trevor DeVore
> ScreenSteps
> www.screensteps.com
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Re: Intermittent typing delay in script editor.

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I see it on my two windows machine but never on the mac…. It is intermittent 
and I’m yet to find a recipe, but it is real.

> On 8 Apr 2021, at 18:17, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 4/8/21 9:52 AM, thompsonmichael--- via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> LC normally works lightning fast on this setup but over the last couple of
>> years I would occasionally experience a sudden slow down in the script
>> editor for no apparent reason. (Delays of seconds sometimes between typing
>> and the type appearing on the screen) I would close everything and restart
>> Livecode and all would be well again.
> 
> I see this on linux occasionally as well. It's erratic enough for me to 
> suspect my own code, but I can never pin anything down. I'll keep an eye on 
> my message box use. Thanks for the hint.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.2 RC-4

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 9 Apr 2021, at 20:49, JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Of course it's 32bits, even the builds are 32bits on windows except they are 
> packed in a 64bit container.

I’m not sure about that because my Surface Pro X can only run x86-32 apps and 
it can run LiveCode. If it was somehow wrapped in 64bits anything, it would say 
that it is not compatible with it.

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On the dangers of automated refactoring

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

I’ve recently read that long thread that almost got people banned and will not 
comment on it. What I want to comment on is about the kernel of the activity 
that was mentioned there: refactoring.

Often in LiveCode (and most programming languages to be honest) we go coding 
for a long while and then realise that our code need extensive refactoring. We 
may have repeated a pattern over and over again and discovered that we need to 
change every instance of them, or something similar.

There are small cases of refactoring, such as renaming a variable in a single 
script, that can be easily (and quite safely) be done with find & replace 
tools. Others are much more complex and attempting to do it over multiple 
scripts on a large project will result in crying and maybe needing a drink or 
hug.

An example of a really smart IDE that is considered the most advanced in terms 
of refactoring are the ones based on JetBrains IDEA such as IDEA itself, 
Android Studio, webStorms, etc. A key part of these IDEs to do refactoring is 
that they have deep knowledge about the source code being written. The code is 
constantly parsed and assembled in a AST that is exposed internally for the 
refactoring tools. When you refactor code in these IDEs, you’re not really 
working with text, you’re telling the IDE to manipulate a tree in ways the IDE 
knows how to manipulate such tree. That is why when you “rename a symbol” or 
“extract selected code into method in enclosing scope” or whatever you do in 
these IDEs, you end up with the expected result.

Find and Replace dialogs, or even custom plugins in LiveCode, don’t have the 
same advanced capabilities. You’re usually working with text and hoping that 
whatever RegEx you’re applying is error-free. And by error-free I don’t mean it 
is a “valid regex”, I mean that “it does what you expect, and your expectations 
are correct”. It is very hard to apply script transformations like that, you 
can’t be sure they’ll work for every little replacement, and for the cases 
where it doesn’t work, the bugs introduced might be too subtle to notice. Let 
me tell you folks a recent story in which I tried to do exactly that and shot 
myself on the foot.

I’m dealing with a very large LC app. Very large, thousands and thousands of 
lines spread in a gazilion stacks, behaviors, and libraries. Some of these 
files needed refactoring. Among the various tasks I needed to do was to apply 
our “variable naming scheme” to the scripts because there were variables using 
the wrong prefixes. 

Naturally, I tried being smart with find & replace. Even going as far as 
extracting the script into an editor with more features —such as RegEx 
replacing— and trying my best to identify and replace the names I needed with 
vast swoops of RegEx.

All the replacements worked like I wrote them.

What I didn’t realise was that there was variable shadowing happening in which 
handler arguments were named with the same name as script-local variables, my 
smart replacing removed those arguments because there was no need to redeclare 
the script-local vars. I didn’t realise at that time, that those variables were 
real arguments being passed to the handlers, they just happened to have the 
same name as script-local vars in the same script and were in fact shadowing 
them. 

I broke all the source code. It took me a long time to work out which handlers 
needed arguments, and which didn’t need and were actually using the 
script-local vars.

I tried being smart fixing broken code, and for a while it became more broken.

Refactoring is hard.

We don’t have a system to create and manipulate LC AST.

We don’t even have unit testing libraries so that we can make sure our code 
works as expected.

Avoid large automated refactoring at all cost, it is not worth it. Do it 
manually. It will be slower, but it will be safer.

Best
A
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Re: Offtopic: Can anybody create a small DLL for me?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Tiemo,

Maybe it is possible to parse the result of

shell(“ipconfig /all”)

To get the same information. I’m not sure which information you’re collecting 
but I just run that on my windows and I could see every interface and the info 
about them.

Best
A

> On 12 Apr 2021, at 10:43, Tiemo via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> over ten years ago, I included a windows dll into one of my main LC
> programs, which was created by a programmer, to whom I no more have any
> contact.
> 
> The dll only has one single function, it reads all MAC addresses from the
> device with all related informations, like name and kind of address and
> gives all the data back to LC.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I would like to build a 64Bit version of my program and therefor need a
> 64Bit version of this dll. I don't have the source, so it has to be created
> from the scratch.
> 
> 
> 
> If there is anybody, who is willing to do this paid job for me, please
> contact me PM: toolb...@kestner.de  
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> Tiemo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.2 RC-4

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

LiveCode is wy less responsive on Windows than on a Mac.

The script editor hangs all the time, even when you turn off all the smart 
stuff. Removing it from defender and stuff helps but doesn’t solve the problem.

LC is quite neglected on Windows and Linux. I understand that mac is the money 
making machine, but the kind of hiccups I see can only be explained by no one 
at HQ using Windows, or they’d have noticed it by now.
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Re: How do you handle 32/64 bit Windows standalones?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Be aware that windows machines which are running “Windows on ARM” such as the 
gorgeous Surface Pro X can only run either ARM64 windows apps (which we can’t 
build with LC) or 32bits x86 windows apps, which we can build. If you want to 
reach maximum compatibility with windows machines everywhere, building for 
32bits is the safest bet.

> On 6 Apr 2021, at 10:36, Tiemo via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> When creating a Windows standalone, are you still creating the 32Bit
> standalone or only anymore 64 Bit Versions of your products?
> 
> I know, that Microsoft doesn't delivers 32 Bit Versions anymore since 2020,
> but I didn't found statistics about the current shares of 32/64 Bit Windows
> Systems out there (in Germany).
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any caveats against going on with 32 Bit versions for some more
> years? 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you handle this today?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: "tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed"?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

oh, I see….

Just catch up on the thread and saw the font loading issue. I can see how that 
becomes even more interesting to implement.

> On 5 Apr 2021, at 01:00, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> curl is reporting the default because the data it's receiving is zero length:
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-April/264146.html
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
> 
> Andre Garzia wrote:> Are you using the time travel external? HTTP/0.9 has 
> been historical for a long while, you can see more about this protocol at:
>> https://medium.com/platform-engineer/evolution-of-http-69cfe6531ba0 
>> <https://medium.com/platform-engineer/evolution-of-http-69cfe6531ba0>
>> To what server you’re connecting?
>>> On 31 Mar 2021, at 20:29, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode >> lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> I have an LC app that recently started reporting this error when calling a 
>>> web service we wrote:
>>> tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed
>>> Searching around the web I see many varied descriptions of how one might 
>>> remedy that, but none seem to fit our circumstance.
>>> Anyone else seen this? What was needed to resolve it?
>>> -- 
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
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Re: "tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed"?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Are you using the time travel external? HTTP/0.9 has been historical for a long 
while, you can see more about this protocol at:

https://medium.com/platform-engineer/evolution-of-http-69cfe6531ba0 


To what server you’re connecting?

> On 31 Mar 2021, at 20:29, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have an LC app that recently started reporting this error when calling a 
> web service we wrote:
> 
>  tsnet (1) Received HTTP/0.9 when not allowed
> 
> 
> Searching around the web I see many varied descriptions of how one might 
> remedy that, but none seem to fit our circumstance.
> 
> Anyone else seen this? What was needed to resolve it?
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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Re: [bug] strange memory leak in LC

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Panos,

The stack that was opened is a project that has many mainstacks in it’s 
stackfiles. Some of those stacks make use of the browser widget but the stacks 
that were open during the problem were not using it. I don’t recall the 
dictionary being open at that time either. I simply killed LC and kept going 
on, I wish I took some more time to try to investigate it but the IDE was not 
responding.

I don’t use Safari so I can really tell anything about it leaking.

Best
A

> On 31 Mar 2021, at 15:22, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> After a brief Google search it seems there are some other apps that have a
> similar memory leak after upgrading to Big Sur:
> 
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252276774
> https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252090206
> 
> The issue folks here (in this list) have mentioned does not seem to be
> specific to M1 macs. It seems specific to Big Sur, since Andrew mentioned
> he saw that in an iMac, and there are no M1 iMacs so far.
> 
> In the previous links people mention memory leaks in Safari. Do you also
> see a memory leak with Safari? Also, did you use a stack with a browser
> widget, when you experienced this issue? These 2 might be related.
> 
> Also, did you use (or did you leave open) the Dictionary stack? The
> Dictionary does use a browser widget.
> 
> So far we are not able to reproduce the issue, because we either run Big
> Sur on Parallels, and the VM is suspended when you choose "Sleep", or we
> connect to a remote M1 Mac mini via VNC, and the connection will be lost if
> we choose "Sleep" for this Mac.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 at 06:59, Phil Davis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I created a little "leak test" stack that runs the "leaks" shell command
>> against the processID of the LC engine that runs the stack. It checks
>> for new leaks every 60 seconds and lists the number and size of each new
>> leak found. I'm running it in LC 9.6.1 on 3 Macs right now - Catalina,
>> High Sierra and Big Sur.
>> 
>> After about 30 minutes:
>> - LC on Big Sur (M1) has 10 leaks for a total of 688 bytes.
>> - LC on Catalina (Intel) has no leaks.
>> - LC on High Sierra (Intel) has no leaks.
>> 
>> Just FYI -
>> Phil Davis
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/26/21 7:33 PM, John Balgenorth via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I am not personally using Bug Sur but if you make a standalone does
>>> it leak  memory too or is this only with the development system?
>>> 
>>> JB
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 7:29 PM, scott--- via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’m running Big Sur and just got a warning from the OS that I was out
>> of application memory. Livecode was using 133.52 GB of memory.  It had been
>> open for a couple days but it wasn’t doing anything.
>>>> --
>>>> Scott Morrow
>>>> 
>>>> Elementary Software
>>>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>>>> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
>>>> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
>>>> booth1-360-734-4701
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>>> On Mar 26, 2021, at 6:53 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sean,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don’t
>> believe it would leak like that. Anyway, I’m monitoring to see if it
>> happens again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> A
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute
>> over
>>>>>> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on
>> my Mac
>>>>>> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC
>> has
>>>>>> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it
>> remains
>>>>>> stable and even went down a tiny bit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance.
>> Maybe
>>>>>> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the
>> binary.
>>>>>> Perhaps, as a test, open the s

Re: Android error messages are crap

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Dear Panos,

When I selected the sdk path in Android Studio, it didn’t populate the JDK 
path. I downloaded the OpenJDK separately and placed it in 
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/, relaunched LiveCode and it was detected 
fine after that.

That JavaVirtualMachines folder was empty after installing Android Studio, it 
didn’t place anything there.

> On 26 Mar 2021, at 14:06, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Andre,
> 
> Have you downloaded OpenJDK separately? I think it is bundled in Android
> Studio.
> 
> The error sounds related to Java / JDK, so could it be the case you have
> multiple Java installations in your machine, and LC is not picking the
> right one?
> 
> What are the contents of /Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/ ?
> 
> Also, what is the jdk path that is populated in the LC mobile prefs, when
> you choose the sdk root folder?
> 
> Cheers,
> Panos
> --
> 
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 15:58, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> So, I’m trying to set this machine for Android development. I have Android
>> Studio, I’ve downloaded the needed SDKs and I’ve got the latest OpenJDK
>> which appears to be jdk16.
>> 
>> Now, when I go and try pressing test on the IDE to test it on the device
>> (which is authorized and appearing fine as a target and on adb), I get that
>> useless:
>> 
>> “Could not compile service support class”
>> 
>> Which is not only not actionable, but it also can happen for any number of
>> reasons. After seeing that it is really not clear what the problem is, or
>> how to solve it.
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Android error messages are crap

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

So, I’m trying to set this machine for Android development. I have Android 
Studio, I’ve downloaded the needed SDKs and I’ve got the latest OpenJDK which 
appears to be jdk16.

Now, when I go and try pressing test on the IDE to test it on the device (which 
is authorized and appearing fine as a target and on adb), I get that useless:

“Could not compile service support class”

Which is not only not actionable, but it also can happen for any number of 
reasons. After seeing that it is really not clear what the problem is, or how 
to solve it.
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Re: [bug] strange memory leak in LC

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Sean,

The stack was not running anything. It was simply opened. I don’t believe it 
would leak like that. Anyway, I’m monitoring to see if it happens again.

A

> On 26 Mar 2021, at 13:01, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Wow, Andre, that's impressive. That amounts to about 34MB per minute over
> 48hrs. I've had a pretty massive stack (226MB file at the moment) on my Mac
> sitting here over the last week. Looking in the activity monitor, LC has
> 987MB associated with it. and watching it over a period of time it remains
> stable and even went down a tiny bit.
> 
> I wonder if this is more an issue with Rosetta2 in this instance. Maybe
> something in LC leaks because of the Rosetta transformation of the binary.
> Perhaps, as a test, open the same stack on a non-AppleSilicon Mac and watch
> them both for how much memory they expend over a period of time.
> 
> All the best with that.
> 
> Sean
> 
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 10:03, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have no idea what happened. I’m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur
>> on M1 ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a
>> couple days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was
>> not yet ready to close them.
>> 
>> The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running “send in time”
>> commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS
>> showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory
>> exhaustion dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of
>> memory, as in Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot:
>> 
>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png <
>> http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png>
>> 
>> I remember things like the “default button” causing leaks due to the
>> animation and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and
>> the script editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday.
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 25 Mar 2021, at 23:29, james--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I went for a bike ride this morning.
> 
> Just thought I would add a post under this subject that is no longer really 
> related to the subject anymore.
> 
> Didn’t want to feel left out ;-)
> 


huahuahuaahuahuahuahuaahuahu


> James
> 
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[bug] strange memory leak in LC

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I have no idea what happened. I’m running LC 9.6.2-rc-3 on macOS Big Sur on M1 
ISA (so it is running under Rosetta 2). I kept the IDE opened for a couple 
days, I was working on a gaziliion stacks at the same time and was not yet 
ready to close them.

The stacks were not doing anything, they were not running “send in time” 
commands or doing any kind of processing, they were just opened. Then macOS 
showed me a dialog I have never ever seen on macOS 10.x, a memory exhaustion 
dialog. Looking closer at it, LiveCode was using 100 GB of memory, as in 
Gigabyte, as can be seen on this screenshot:

http://andregarzia.com/img/shots/lc-memory-leak.png 


I remember things like the “default button” causing leaks due to the animation 
and so on, but all I had was a bunch of custom stacks open and the script 
editor focused. Thats it. It was open since yesterday. 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 25 Mar 2021, at 14:58, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Defaulting to HTTP for customer-facing systems simplifies a lot of 
> decision-making, and since most of the rest of the world makes the same 
> choice at least we're in good company. :)

Also, HTTP/HTTPS are usually enabled on firewalls, makes your life a lot easier 
when you don’t need to tell your user that they need to fiddle with firewall 
rules.
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 25 Mar 2021, at 01:14, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I suppose everything networking uses sockets, but these are protocols with 
> standardized ways of establishing the connection and securing it. I was 
> thinking of a custom client server file transfer method, but whether or not 
> it could work for Jacque, I don’t know.
> 
> Bob S

Devising your own binary file transfer protocol based purely on TCP sockets is 
a very tedious and error prone process that will get you no advantages unless 
you really have some special need that is not solved by any of the solutions 
that already exists.

The easiest way to work around not being able to use FTP and friends, is with a 
simple HTTP server and a CGI on the server machine that has logic for receiving 
file uploads, then you simply use either libURL or TSNet to send the files.
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 24 Mar 2021, at 23:50, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> And with Windows 10, Microsoft is now embracing Linux in its Windows 
> Subsystem for Linux, so Win folk can enjoy industry standard tooling on all 
> OSes:

Just be aware that WSL is not activated by default, and you can’t assume which 
distro is installed (even though Ubuntu is probably 90% of the installs). There 
are shell commands you can use to probe if WSL is installed, which distros are 
installed, and also execute something on a specific installed distro.

All that is possible but it is not exactly trivial. Windows is quite flexible 
in a way that most systems are not. You might be running on Intel or ARM, you 
might be running 32bits or 64bits, you might be using cmd, powershell 5 or 7, 
bash, who knows what shell is running. Your distros under WSL might be WSL1 
(which is syscall translations) or WSL2 (which is hypervisor emulator). You 
kinda need to take those things into account if you’re running shell() commands 
or trying to bundle binaries.

If you have control of the Windows machine, then you can set it up to run as 
you want, but if you’re shipping software for end-users, you can’t assume WSL 
Ubuntu is there so you can run rsync.

I know you didn’t say that but often I see scripts in other communities that 
assume a ton of stuff (even on macOS where many scripts assume homebrew is 
present).
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 24 Mar 2021, at 19:12, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre: After TSNet failed, I did try to use AppleScript but Fetch put up a 
> dialog that it did not allow AppleScript sent from other apps. And BTW, next 
> time leave in the fun stuff. :)

Not accepting AppleScript from other apps basically defeats the reason to use 
AppleScript IMHO… those devs are crazy. Anyway, that sucks. I know that 
Transmit has a pretty comprehensive AppleScript dictionary as can be seen in:

https://andregarzia.com/img/shots/transmit-dictionary.png 


It is not a cheap software though, but I think it is worthy it.

Next time, I’m leaving the fun bits :-)
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 24 Mar 2021, at 17:11, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think there may be other questions in play as well.
> Will I learn anything from doing this?
> Will I have fun experimenting with it?
> Are there more pressing things I need to do instead?
> etc.

YES, a thousand times yes!

More than half of what I develop here falls into all these categories. I can 
push the “trying this just for fun” pretty far. The last project I made that 
was a fun experiment was 
https://andregarzia.com/2020/04/starting-project-moon-hermit.html 
 and I still 
love it even though it is not really a project or product.

The book is framed around a mindset for building stuff for business needs, not 
for personal growth and understanding, and not for fun. It is more like: “these 
patterns are good when you’re doing something that we would normally call ‘a 
job’.” That doesn’t mean that every other mode of development is excluded or 
less important. 

I think that the ethos of that book can be summarised as in being a mode of 
thinking that prioritises developer comfort and safety in maintaining a 
business or a long project.

Maybe, the next book will be about having fun while developing. Don’t know...
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Folks,

Thanks a lot for the kind words, it really made my day! <3

Mark, I guarantee that I learned more from you than you from me.

Scott, exploding tea infusers are quite dangerous. We managed to get a refund 
but I’m still terrified of what happened. As for coffee, I’m deep into coffee 
stuff, if you liked that Hario Switch Dripper shown there, you might also enjoy 
the Clever Dripper which makes very similar coffee but it costs way less. About 
25 bucks if I remember. I just find the Hario Switch Dripper prettier. Thanks a 
ton for the kind words as well.

Jacque, I think you made a good choice in deciding to stop working on your FTPs 
tool. It is not worthy to devote too much time into a tool that you won’t see 
much usage. Much easier to create a tool that helps you use Fetch or whatever 
client you normally use. This is a prime candidate for a stack that uses 
AppleScript to automate Fetch (or Transmit, my preferred client). Let me tell 
you that I removed a ton of funny footnotes from the text. Originally the text 
was much more fun, but I was afraid people wouldn’t like it so I removed most 
of the jokes and useless-but-flavourful notes. Next time, I’m leaving them in.

Matthias, you got it! Thats the exact use case that bespoke tools are made for. 
Making something that you need to do often repeatable and safe. 

Bob, oh I never learned to play any musical instrument even though I tried a 
bunch of them. I’m happy that you’re making good use of the book.


So for those that already read it, is there any kind of extra topic or material 
regarding plugins and bespoke tools that you’d like to see covered? I’m keen to 
update this book with new chapters but I have no idea what people are looking 
for.

Om om
A
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Re: [ANN] New Book: Development Oriented Development

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Martin,

Thanks a ton for the kind words and feedback. Your message makes me quite
happy because what you're describing is exactly the kind of experience that
I wanted to encourage when I wrote that book. Let us know how your plugin
writing goes :-) oh, I'm also interested in feedback for part 2 of that
book which is about project-focused tooling, if you have any thoughts about
it, I'd be keen to know more.

Thanks!
A

On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 at 15:49, Martin Koob  wrote:

> Hi Andre
>
> I am enjoying your new book. It demystifies for me plug-ins and how to
> create them. My mystification creates anxiety around venturing into
> creating a plugin much less adding existing plugins to my IDE and
> configuring them.  After reading the first sections of your book that
> anxiety is dissipating.
>
> You advice to look for areas of friction in your workflow really relates
> to an experience I had recently.  For a new project I had to make lots of
> fields with lots of labels and changing the text of a label takes way
> longer than it should.  Finally, after years of grumbling to myself that
> this should be easier I created a handler that I added as a behaviour to a
> template label field.  Basically it allows you to set the text of a label
> by double clicking with the browse tool on a text label field and then
> entering the text in an answer dialog. I could then option drag the label
> field template and then change its text with a simple double click. As a
> bonus I could set it to align left by holding the option + double clicking
> the label field.
>
> It worked ok speeding up that task but it was a handler incorporated in a
> specific project. I thought this should be incorporated into the IDE to
> really work as I intended but I wasn’t sure how I could do that. I had
> thoughts of frontscripts or backscripts or plugins in mind but I did not
> know how to work with any of these, and, due to the mystification factor
> which leads to anxiety which prevents me from trying new approaches I
> didn’t go any further with that.  Now after reading up to page 43 of your
> book I think that I should be able to create a plugin to add this feature
> to mould the IDE.
>
> Now I am starting the section “What are your needs?” Well I already have
> my need in mind — a quick and easy way to set label field text.  My goal
> now is to create a plugin that will accomplish this.   Looking forward to
> learning how in the rest of your book.
>
> Martin Koob.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone after much consternation trying to type with one
> finger.
>
> > On Mar 17, 2021, at 6:02 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks a ton for the kind words my friends :D
> >
> > In essence, this is a very simple book that is aiming to convey a single
> > idea: "you can and should create  your own tools". I think that is a
> topic
> > that we need to explore more.
> >
> > Cheers
> > A
> >
> > On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 01:56, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Andre
> >>
> >> I had to get this one. The title alone intrigued me. But looking at the
> >> contents I know I need it to grow further. I'm looking forward to
> getting
> >> your insights. I'll start tonight.
> >>
> >> All the very best
> >> Sean
> >> Pi
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 14:11, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Friends,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm quite happy to announce the initial release of my new LiveCode
> >> eBook.
> >>>> This is a companion book to the previous "LiveCode Advanced
> Application
> >>>> Architecture" eBook that dives further into making LiveCode IDE a
> >>>> comfortable place for your development workflow.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Development Oriented Development" is a novel approach to coding with
> >>>> LiveCode that prioritizes developer comfort and robustness by
> favouring
> >>>> treating LiveCode as a mouldable environment. By the end of this book,
> >>>> you’ll know how and why to build custom plugins to make your
> >> development
> >>>> workflow easier, and how bespoke project-specific tools lead to
> >> software
> >>>> that is easier to maintain.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can get the new book at: https://payhip.com/b/18eH
> >>>>
> >>>>

Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hey Panos,

Thanks for including the message about my new book in the newsletter.
Thanks a ton :-)

Best
A

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 20:30, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
> community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
>
> Read issue #259 here: http://bit.ly/3tY74Qj
>
> This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
> going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
> released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
> deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any!
>
> If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
> somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.
>
>
>
> --
> Panagiotis Merakos 
> LiveCode Software Developer
>
> Everyone Can Create Apps 
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XCode 12.4 not working with LiveCode

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

I have XCode 12.4 here and I don't seem to be able to select it on the
LiveCode preferences. It complains about not having the iOS SDK needed but
I think it does, or at least it has the correct simulators.

Anyone have any clue how to make it work? I'm not running a beta version or
anything, this is just the current released version.

Best
A

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Re: [ANN] New Book: Development Oriented Development

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Thanks a ton for the kind words my friends :D

In essence, this is a very simple book that is aiming to convey a single
idea: "you can and should create  your own tools". I think that is a topic
that we need to explore more.

Cheers
A

On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 at 01:56, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Andre
>
> I had to get this one. The title alone intrigued me. But looking at the
> contents I know I need it to grow further. I'm looking forward to getting
> your insights. I'll start tonight.
>
> All the very best
> Sean
> Pi
>
>
> > On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 14:11, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Friends,
> > >
> > > I'm quite happy to announce the initial release of my new LiveCode
> eBook.
> > > This is a companion book to the previous "LiveCode Advanced Application
> > > Architecture" eBook that dives further into making LiveCode IDE a
> > > comfortable place for your development workflow.
> > >
> > > "Development Oriented Development" is a novel approach to coding with
> > > LiveCode that prioritizes developer comfort and robustness by favouring
> > > treating LiveCode as a mouldable environment. By the end of this book,
> > > you’ll know how and why to build custom plugins to make your
> development
> > > workflow easier, and how bespoke project-specific tools lead to
> software
> > > that is easier to maintain.
> > >
> > > You can get the new book at: https://payhip.com/b/18eH
> > >
> > > I look forward to feedback, suggestions, and requests for more chapters
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Andre
> > >
> > > --
> > > https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> > > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> --
> Pi Digital
> ___
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Re: [ANN] New Book: Development Oriented Development

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Dear Roland,

I haven't updated that book in a long time. What I did was switch stores to
payhip. In that purchase URL, you'll notice that my name as an author is a
link. If you click it, you're redirected to my payhip store at:

https://payhip.com/aagarzia

Which has the other book for sale as well.

I'll generate a preview and add it to my site.

Best
Andre

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 at 17:14, R.H. via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Andre
>
> I have purchased your new book and downloaded the three versions (very
> clever in three formats!).
>
> https://payhip.com/b/18eH
>
> With me is also your other book published first. Somewhere I read that you
> updated that version. Can I download that somewhere as well? Or is there
> some update price?
>
> This purchasing page looks very professional and nice. But there is no link
> to your other products or possibilities to contact you from that page.
> Maybe a small preview would also possibly attract more readers? Anyway..
> the price is very modest.
>
> Regards, Roland
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[ANN] New Book: Development Oriented Development

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Friends,

I'm quite happy to announce the initial release of my new LiveCode eBook.
This is a companion book to the previous "LiveCode Advanced Application
Architecture" eBook that dives further into making LiveCode IDE a
comfortable place for your development workflow.

"Development Oriented Development" is a novel approach to coding with
LiveCode that prioritizes developer comfort and robustness by favouring
treating LiveCode as a mouldable environment. By the end of this book,
you’ll know how and why to build custom plugins to make your development
workflow easier, and how bespoke project-specific tools lead to software
that is easier to maintain.

You can get the new book at: https://payhip.com/b/18eH

I look forward to feedback, suggestions, and requests for more chapters

Cheers
Andre

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Re: Livestreaming some LiveCoding right now

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hey Friends,

Thanks a ton for joining in. It was just me playing around. I plan to do
this regularly. I'll announce it earlier in the future so that people can
prepare.

I'm aware of the audio problem, I need to buy a better mic. I'm using a
lapel mono mic at the moment, the streaming box should be duplicating the
channels but for some reason it is not. I'll fix this for the next
streaming.

As for "status" being a reserved word, well, it is colorised as if it is
but you can use it without any problem. I've been using it for years.

My question is, why "revIDEUnsubscribe" and "revIDEUnsubscribeAll" are not
working... that is so odd.

I hope people here had fun seeing me circle around trying to figure out why
my code doesn't work.



On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 17:26, Rick Harrison via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> You should do this again.
>
> Next time give us some notice so we can join you at the beginning.
>
> Your voice was only coming out of the left side of my headphones so you
> need to balance your audio better.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
> > On Mar 11, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Friends,
> >
> > I found myself in need of building a git plugin for LiveCode today.
> Instead
> > of building it on my own, I decided to livestream the whole process. To
> > watch it, jump in to:
> >
> > https://youtu.be/cOr87w7GyGs
> >
> > I'm live right now and I have no clue how long this will take and if I
> will
> > actually succeed in building the plugin I want. This is a good
> opportunity
> > to interact with another developers (there is a chat) and watch how I
> work.
> > You'll see my mistakes, debugging skills, and maybe even learn something.
> >
> > see ya
> > Andre
> > --
> > https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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Livestreaming some LiveCoding right now

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hey Friends,

I found myself in need of building a git plugin for LiveCode today. Instead
of building it on my own, I decided to livestream the whole process. To
watch it, jump in to:

https://youtu.be/cOr87w7GyGs

I'm live right now and I have no clue how long this will take and if I will
actually succeed in building the plugin I want. This is a good opportunity
to interact with another developers (there is a chat) and watch how I work.
You'll see my mistakes, debugging skills, and maybe even learn something.

see ya
Andre
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Re: S3 Compatible?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

I think that a consequence of the popularity of S3 REST API was overlooked
by the LC HQ when they designed the AWS library. Many of the AWS APIs were
copied by other competing products so that they'd become a turn-key
replacement for AWS. It is much easier to push your company's backuping
solution if it is compatible to S3 for example. Many FOSS self-hosted
projects created endpoints compatible with AWS for the same reasons.

It should be trivial to add a command to register a custom endpoint. I
think that the whole password protection of that stack is to make sure it
is only available to Indy licensees. I don't mind it being Indy and up
only, but I'd love for those libraries to have their source open so that
people can contribute such small changes. This would free resources from
the mothership and keep those libraries fresh.

Best
A

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 at 20:13, Kee Nethery via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thank you for the clarification.
>
> Kee Nethery
>
> > On Feb 25, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Kee Nethery wrote:
> >
> > > From this conversation am I to assume that if I am planning
> > > on building a project that relies on AWS S3, I’m gonna have
> > > to roll my own connector to it?
> >
> > It seems the opposite: if you need S3 storage, AWS is the only one
> supported by the LC lib included in proprietary editions.
> >
> > You would only need to roll your own if you want S3 from another
> provider, which is the circumstance Tom has which prompted this thread.
> >
> > Monte described the history of the library a couple posts back:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2021-February/263537.html
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World Systems
> > Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> > 
> > ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> >
> > ___
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Re: Wasm and the LC Roadmap

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Let me begin by saying that WASM is not a silver bullet. I know this doesn’t 
happen on our community, and that David is not mentioning WASM as a magical 
solution for HTML5 deployment.

A bit of context is needed to understand why WASM is important and cool. In the 
past, many C/C++ to Web solutions were based on emscripten which is a toolset 
based on LLVM that can output C/C++ code in something called “ASM.js” which is 
a very compact JavaScript source code that kinda does what the C/C++ was doing. 
This is how people ported the “Unreal Engine” to the web for example. Be aware 
that ASM.js doesn’t deal with graphics and stuff, that still web technologies. 
It is just very good at number crunching and makes it possible to reuse C/C++ 
code.

The main drawbacks from ASM.js (which can be felt on the HTML5 deployment) is 
that the file sizes are huge. Just imagine a compiler that instead of 
generating native binary code is generating actual equivalent JavaScript code. 
This presents two problems for the user, first is the lengthy file transfer 
needed to download all that content to the users browser, second is the time it 
takes for the JS engine to actually parse those large files.

These problems are mitigated by WASM. WebAssembly grew out of the working 
groups that were developing ASM.js. It is a bytecode format, so it is smaller 
than the equivalent JS file. It is also a standardized VM, which means it 
executes the same in all browsers that support it. Another cute trick it can do 
is that is can start loading the bytecode in the VM while it is transferring 
(aka loading while streaming) which means that by the time the transfer 
completes, a huge portion of that code is already loaded.

Not only this speeds up the user experience, but having a well-defined VM makes 
it easier for language developers to target it instead of the ASM.js hacks.

The same toolset that produces ASM.js can produce WASM. It should be natural 
evolution for the HTML5 deployment to switch from ASM.js based to WASM based. 
This doesn’t make it magical though, this switch alone will not make LC work on 
the browser beyond what they’re currently doing. It needs more work, but it 
should yield smaller files which makes it a better experience.

> On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:30, Graham Samuel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well done Klaus, I was still Googling it! I am in fact looking at articles 
> (e.g. https://blog.bitsrc.io/whats-wrong-with-web-assembly-3b9abb671ec2 
> )  that 
> suggest that despite some very significant users (Google Earth is one), wasm 
> hasn’t exactly conquered the universe in the three years since it was 
> launched.
> 
> Would LC users benefit and/or would it be a massive diversion of scarce 
> development effort? Anyone have any idea?
> 
> Graham
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2021, at 15:19, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> To all who are also not familiar witht the gazillion abbreviations,
>> David is talking about -> WebaSseMbly :-)
>> 
>>> Am 17.02.2021 um 16:13 schrieb David Bovill via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Anyone know the wasm plans?
>>> 
>>> I’m Woking on a project in collaboration with a number of other platforms 
>>> and partners that are using wasm. Would like to play in the same place with 
>>> LiveCode.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> ***
>>> 
>>>  
>>> \\   //  
>>>  \\\//  ***
>>>\\\
>>> |||//   ,
>>> |__/
>>> ,,,//\,,o==o
>>> ;
>>> 
>>> Schedule a meeting using this link.
>>> Writing and media work on Media Garden.
>>> 
>>> LinkedIn: David Bovill
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Klaus Major
>> https://www.major-k.de
>> https://www.major-k.de/bass
>> kl...@major-k.de
>> 
>> 
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Re: LC Roadmap

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

> On 16 Feb 2021, at 15:26, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> A sample 'skeleton' app - i.e. complete but not fleshed-out. Initially it 
> would be for a desktop app (the first sequel will cover mobile). It would 
> implement "good practices" for many of the common features, with enough code 
> being there to do something - but the focus should be on the architecture 
> rather than on doing anything useful.

I released:

https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html 


To cover as much of this topic as I felt comfortable doing. The main issue is 
that different experienced developers have different opinions about what is the 
best way to organise an app. LiveCode is very versatile and you can do a really 
great app organisation that is completely different than another great app. We 
don’t have a mothership preferred way of doing that, and I didn’t want to force 
my own bias into people.

I know that some people are deriving great value from Levure, others prefer 
using something else. It is a tricky topic to cover because once you release 
such book, you’re kinda telling all newcomers that the way described in the 
book is the best way to do it. For example, if I went ahead and added a way of 
doing all that without Levure, then some people would think that Levure is 
useless because the only book we have tells you do use something different; if 
I used Levure, then people would think that if you’re not using it, you’re 
doing it wrong.

That is way I stayed into safe topics in that book, I covered stuff that should 
be applicable to many ways of organising your code. Still, I really think 
you’ve surfaced an important vacuum in our community, we lack good and 
documented skeleton apps. The main challenge here is the wording on the e-book, 
it should be clear that there are other equality valid ways of doing things, 
and that is OK to tweak the presented approach or even come up with your own.

Since a lot of this work would involve manipulating stacks and their 
properties, I suspect that this would work better as a multimedia product with 
videos and articles.
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Re: LC Roadmap

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Folks, 


> On 15 Feb 2021, at 01:46, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre Garza’s post about his planning to write a book on some aspect of 
> Livecode programming got me thinking about this. First, I think writing books 
> is useful, but the way many busy folks access information on the internet is 
> in more as smaller more targeted bites. I play jazz keyboard. A couple of 
> years ago, I subscribed to a site that gave me access to jazz song sheet 
> music included in video lessons lasting 30-60 minutes each. At the same time, 
> from a couple other  authors, I got regular (about once a week) emails with 
> short free improv techniques that took me 5-10 minutes to read, but with 
> offers (at a cost) that include more in-depth lessons. I find that I use the 
> short lessons a lot and the longer lessons, that I have already paid for with 
> my one year subscription, very little if at all. Perhaps I’m unusual with a 
> very short attention span, but I suspect I'm more typical. I’m suggesting 
> that there are unused marketing and support strategies that could be 
> beneficial to the Livecode enterprise. Check out the macmost site to see what 
> I’m talking about.

I had a great conversation with Richard about this couple weeks ago. We 
definitely feel that there is a need for more content in our community. In my 
own personal and subjective opinion, a real problem with have in LiveCode 
community is that the UX of the website is really bad. The site is quite 
pretty, but things that are useful for LC developers are hard to find. Let me 
illustrate that with an example:

Suppose you want to check some API related thing. You go to the website, click 
“Docs” on the top menu and you’re dropped in a firehose of introductory 
information. That is all great, but where is the online dictionary? How you can 
go from there to finding out about a specific command or function? It is not 
there. The easiest way to get to the dictionary is to go back to the main home 
page, scroll all the way to the bottom and get the dictionary link in the 
footer.

The content is there, but the navigation around that content is bad. The new 
HTML-based dictionary in the IDE is dead slow and has other UX issues such as 
what happens when you press the ENTER/RETURN key in the search field (go ahead, 
try it).

LC is a small company regardless of how much we love them. They can’t provide 
solution to all our needs. It is not because they don’t want to, they have 
limited resources. We can’t treat LC as we treat Apple or Microsoft. I won’t 
dive into the sheer scale of the difference between those entities. We can’t 
compare it with some hugely popular FOSS programming language project such as 
Python. We tend to think that because it is FOSS that it is all done for free 
by a small group of people, it is very easy to fall into the fallacy of saying: 
“look at what those people can achieve for free!”. It is not free and their 
institutional and enterprise backers provide funding and full-time employees 
that are beyond what LC can sum up.

Does that mean that LC has no place? Of course not, even with all those large 
entities competing in a similar space, LiveCode still a fantastic tool and in 
my own opinion, provides unrivalled productivity. 

What I’m saying is that we spend too much time focused into comparing LC with 
other stuff, or complaining about the lack of something. I understand that as 
paying customers we do have expectations and rights. What I want people here to 
understand is that there is no successful programming language community in 
which all resources are provided by a single entity. You need an ecosystem of 
multiple vendors of stuff to make a community. In the case of LiveCode, we need 
people creating and distributing (for a profit or not) libraries, extensions, 
tools, and content.

There is a void to be filled in our community to make it more vibrant and 
useful for ourselves. I know most people here are busy developing their 
products for their clients, but if we don’t at least surface what we’re 
building to one another, then everything becomes too opaque. The practices of 
being a LiveCode developer become a guarded secret, something that you only 
grasp if you stay here long enough and talk to the correct people.

It is with this in mind, that I decided to create content for our community. 
Books are an easy value proposition. Most of our community is beyond their 
thirties and have a fondness (and experience) for the written word and 
documentation. It is easy to sell books here, way easier than in other 
communities which are younger and prefer videos. That doesn’t mean that I can’t 
provide videos as well, damn I’ve graduated with a BA in filmmaking, I’m geared 
to start filming too. Books were the first step. I see myself more as a 
storyteller than a developer, that is why I want to focus on content for my own 
career moving forward. But that is only my own personal journey, 

Re: Anyone able to connect to a PostgreSQL database with lc server?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Whatever it was, it is apparently happening on 9.0.4 but fixed in
9.6.2-rc-2, go figure...

I don't have time to dive deep into this, I'm just happy to have it working.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 12:42, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
>
> Before I escalate this to HQ, did anyone here was able to connect to a
> postgresql database server using LiveCode Server?
>
> I'm getting a hard crash here. The server is exiting with Signal 11
> (segmentation fault?) on the call to revOpenDatabase. The arguments passed
> to the server are correct. The same app (using RevIgniter) is able to
> connect to MySQL without any problem.
>
> We have a PostgreSQL database to benefit from "jsonb" fields. We can't
> convert it to MySQL.
>
> Best
> Andre
>
> --
> https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
>


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Anyone able to connect to a PostgreSQL database with lc server?

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Folks,

Before I escalate this to HQ, did anyone here was able to connect to a
postgresql database server using LiveCode Server?

I'm getting a hard crash here. The server is exiting with Signal 11
(segmentation fault?) on the call to revOpenDatabase. The arguments passed
to the server are correct. The same app (using RevIgniter) is able to
connect to MySQL without any problem.

We have a PostgreSQL database to benefit from "jsonb" fields. We can't
convert it to MySQL.

Best
Andre

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Bill,

:-) that topic is too large for a book to be honest.

What I recommend is actually building a desktop standalone. Forget the web
for that app, push for an app.

Best
A

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 16:20, ELS Prothero <
proth...@earthlearningsolutions.org> wrote:

> Thank you, Andre, for you wisdom. What I take from your comments is if I
> want to develop dynamic interactive web based apps with Livecode, I should
> get up to speed on JavaScript and will need to either use Livecode to
> generate html5, compiled with webAssembly, or find another platform to
> develop the software.
>
> Perhaps this topic is an idea for a short book (hint, hint).
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
>
> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 8:03 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
> > "you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".
> >
> > WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
> > are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
> > since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also,
> it
> > can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
> > transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
> > will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
> > of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action
> and
> > having something running.
> >
> > WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable
> LLVM
> > – which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
> > doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
> > with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type.
> It
> > is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.
> >
> > Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
> > JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
> > do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
> > WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and
> WASM
> > are built to complement each other.
> >
> > Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
> > Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
> > combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).
> >
> > The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both
> are
> > great.
> >
> > Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the
> 90s
> > with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
> > load on the Web. That is not how this works.
> >
> > If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of
> MDN
> > WebDocs:
> >
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> So,
> >>
> >> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static
> analysis
> >> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
> >> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you
> do is
> >> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then
> security
> >> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start
> which
> >> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
> >> case.
> >>
> >> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
> >> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
> >> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give
> Apple a
> >> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with
> this
> >> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not
> really
> >> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages
> and
> >> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
> >> webstore and sells stuff.
> >>
> >> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
> >>
> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>

Re: Considering work with livecode server

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
"you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".

WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also, it
can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action and
having something running.

WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable LLVM
– which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type. It
is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.

Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and WASM
are built to complement each other.

Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).

The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both are
great.

Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the 90s
with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
load on the Web. That is not how this works.

If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of MDN
WebDocs:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly



On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> So,
>
> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do is
> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start which
> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
> case.
>
> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not really
> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages and
> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
> webstore and sells stuff.
>
> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>>
>> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
>> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course
>> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
>> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
>> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app
>> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
>> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
>> learn in this space.
>>
>> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these
>> limitations?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>>
>> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that
>> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping
>> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web
>> site. (as an extreme example)
>>
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>
>
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

So,

Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do is
display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start which
is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
case.

As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not really
Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages and
buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
webstore and sells stuff.

I'll write another message about WebAssembly...

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>
> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course
> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app
> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
> learn in this space.
>
> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these
> limitations?
>
> Thanks
> Mark
>
> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that
> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping
> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web
> site. (as an extreme example)
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Bill,

Let me second what Richard said, you'd be better served by building desktop
stack apps than by building web apps. There is no silver bullet for doing
web work, there is no magical technology that makes it as easy as LC. The
Web is a design by committee with various multi-billion companies doing
power plays around it. To be effective on the web, you need to learn HTML,
CSS, and JS. You don't need to be an expert, but you need to learn up to
some intermediate level to do the kind of interactions you are talking
about. The web has quirks and some anachronisms in it but that is because
it can't afford to break compatibility with itself. A website from 1995
needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021. What this means
is that there are still people programming the web as if it still is 1995,
so the quality of material you find online varies a lot. I'm happy that I
know it well but when I need some app on my day to day work, I will more
often turn to LC than building a web solution.

You can build richer experiences more easily by using LC and shipping a
loader standalone than by using LC server without knowing JS.

Kind regards
a

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 13:49, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you get
> Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>> > Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile
>> apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>>
>> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
>> were essentially just web browsers to external content.
>>
>> Am I wrong about this?
>>
>> --
>>   Mark Wieder
>>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you get
Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile
> apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>
> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
> were essentially just web browsers to external content.
>
> Am I wrong about this?
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: [ANN] Release 9.6.2 RC-2

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Panos,

Is there a potential ETA for M1 support?

Best
Andre

On Tue, 12 Jan 2021 at 09:13, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear list members,
>
> We are pleased to announce the release of LiveCode 9.6.2 RC-2.
>
>
> Getting the Release
> ===
> You can get the release at https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/ or via
> the automatic updater.
>
>
> Release Contents
> 
> LiveCode 9.6.2 RC-2 comes with 5 regression fixes, including:
>
> - Opening Color Picker from modal window no longer causes LC to freeze
> - MacOS Big Sur: fixed display error when switching between card or showing
> a group
> - Fix long pause after closing modal dialog on macOS
>
> For the full list of all fixes, updates and enhancements please see the
> release notes:
> http://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf
>
>
> Known issues
> 
> - The Browser widget's native layer is not shown in some Linux distros with
> Cinnamon window manager.
> - The use of the Browser widget is not supported on Ubuntu 18.04 64 bit LTS
> yet.
>
>
> Required Software
> =
> To build iOS apps with LiveCode you must have the appropriate versions of
> Xcode as follows:
>
>   - macOS 10.13.4: Xcode 10.1 - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS 12.1
> SDK
>   - macOS 10.14.4: Xcode 11.3.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 13.2 SDK
>   - macOS 10.15.4+: Xcode 12.1.x - LiveCode builds iOS apps using the iOS
> 14.1 SDK
>
> There is a full list of working LiveCode/macOS/Xcode combinations here:
> https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/
>
> Note: Whilst we endeavour to release updated versions of LiveCode
> supporting the latest Xcode/iOS SDKs as quickly as possible; we strongly
> recommend disabling automatic update of Xcode or downloading the specific
> version of Xcode required directly from the Apple developer portal and
> installing it separately.
>
> Important: From the end of June 2020, Apple is only accepting apps built
> using iOS13 SDKs. This means that, if you wish to submit apps to the
> AppStore you will have to be running at least macOS 10.14 in order to be
> able to install the necessary version of Xcode.
>
>
> Feedback
> 
> Please report any bugs encountered on our quality center at
> http://quality.livecode.com/
>
> We have a forum available for discussing LiveCode Builder at
> http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=93
>
>
> Have fun!
> The LiveCode Team
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: LC & Mac M1 Chip

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hi Panos,

Just updated https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955 with a
screenshot from 9.6.2-rc-1 running on my M1 machine.

I can't reproduce the bug, I guess it is fixed.

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 10:35, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Just a clarification - the bug about dashes in menus in standalones on Big
> Sur is:
>
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23009
>
> and not https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=23013
>
> BTW, could someone that has a M1 Mac confirm that in the LC 9.6.2 RC-1 IDE
> there are no dashes in front of the menus - in other words that this bug is
> fixed:
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22955
>
> Thank you!
>
> Kind regards,
> Panos
> --
>
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 01:07, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Paul:
> >
> >  > we have several customer who have said
> >  > they are upgrading to M1 laptops
> >
> > Yes; important to support! I'm looking in that direction too. It'll be
> > popular, plus it's what I can afford. Many people in the same boat.
> >
> > (Backstory: Apple's biz model forces Apple to force us to spend on
> > hardware. The mobile herd sticks with Apple, so the dev herd does too,
> > so wallets must open and notes must rain down. But not satisfied yet
> > with the rain from software tweaks, so now hardware tweaks too.)
> >
> > I'm planning to get an M1 Mac this year, to get back on the bleeding
> > edge for a while. It's time. My old Mac hardware is still perfectly
> > good, it was well-built and has zero issues, but finally has been pushed
> > into what will soon be an untenable corner by the combo of new OS to
> > support and new chip to support. But the older Mac will continue to
> > serve for testing and for transition dev if needed.
> >
> >  > a sense of when LC 9.6.2 STABLE may be out?
> >
> > Could be roughly predicted, maybe, by looking at what they are working
> > on. I actually agree with LC's anti release date policy; announcing firm
> > dates is just begging for another issue to pop up. But since Apple's biz
> > model places so much pressure on devs to keep up, a sense would be good.
> > Especially since third-party addons and widgets also have to keep up
> > with our ecosystem.
> >
> > (Another backstory: Don't forget the stable/stable linguistic play; I've
> > seen RCs here that were actually more "stable" than the final, because
> > glitches, regressions, and extra bugs are sometimes - perhaps often -
> > introduced in the very process of fixing bugs. Depending on a stable to
> > be stable is a gamble, and depending on the specific features in an app,
> > there are times when the RC is more reliable. Nevertheless I really hate
> > to publish anything with an RC; only when forced to do so.)
> >
> > BTW, Paul knows all of this very well. I'm just replying publicly in
> > case the backstories will benefit other readers here in the process. :)
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Curry Kenworthy
> >
> > Custom Software Development
> > "Better Methods, Better Results"
> > LiveCode Training and Consulting
> > http://livecodeconsulting.com/
> >
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
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Re: LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture eBook price reduced

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Kee, Lagi, Chip, and Bob,

Thanks again for the kind words. I hope you all enjoy the book. :-)

Let me clarify some things because I can see how people are confused about
me messaging about the book now. So, the book hasn't changed, this is not
an update on the content. This was a price reduction I made because I want
to prepare myself to start selling books on Amazon. You may not be aware
but if I price the book between 1.99 and 9.99 on Amazon, I get 70%
royalties. But, if I price it above 9.99, I get only 35%. This means that I
get more money from pricing it 9.99 than if I price it higher, unless I
price it much higher. Basically, 9.99 gives the the same amount of
royalties as if I priced it 20. That is of course only for Amazon. All the
other players in the market give you 70% regardless of how you price it.
Amazon makes this rule to force the prices down. And before you think this
is good, be aware that this makes it a lot harder to make a living out of
books. Which makes it detrimental to the quality of books being shipped
since an author can't justify working longer or producing a larger book
since they won't be able to charge a fair price. But that is publishing
politics and I won't go too deep into it here, I just thought you folks
should know.

So that little campaign was made to:

* Teach me how to use book brush which is an online tool to create
specialized artwork for book authors/publishers. I used to make the nice
art you might have seen on the FB group or the forum.
* Let me see if people will actually buy a 9.99 book. My leanpub royalties
page (which has some automatic statistical recommendation in it) was
telling me to price the book higher than 20.
* Check if people are OK buying directly from my site, which makes me much
more confident of the process and in control.

I'm working towards switching from being a developer to being a writer.
This is a long process and this was a step forward. The next step is
producing a new LC book from scratch without relying on Leanpub and making
it available in multiple stores. It will probably be a short book, very
focused on some specific topic that I haven't yet decided on.

I believe that we need more books in our community :-)

Kind regards
Andre

On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 23:54, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Sorry maybe it's October 8th  as I think you use American format dates.
>
> Lagi
>
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 00:28, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Friends,
> >
> > I've reduced the price of my LiveCode eBook to £9.99. This book will
> teach
> > you advanced techniques, and contains a ton tips and tricks from a
> seasoned
> > LC developer.
> >
> > Get it from:
> >
> >
> https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Andre
> >
> > --
> > https://www.andregarzia.com <http://www.andregarzia.com>
> > Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
>
>
> --
> KIndest Regards Lagi
> ___
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> subscription preferences:
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LiveCode Advanced Application Architecture eBook price reduced

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hey Friends,

I've reduced the price of my LiveCode eBook to £9.99. This book will teach
you advanced techniques, and contains a ton tips and tricks from a seasoned
LC developer.

Get it from:
https://andregarzia.com/books/livecode-advanced-application-architecture.html

Kind regards
Andre

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

Hey Friends,

I'm enjoying this thread a lot. I'll not be the person to tell someone not
to port LC to some new ISA or OS, I think it would be great if LC would run
in BSD. Personally, I don't have the time or even the skillset to help
this, but I'd love to benefit from it. Incidentally this is the exact
mindset that prevents good things from happening because many people want
to benefit from something without actually working towards it but I really
can't work on this. The work that LC HQ has done throughout the years
modernizing the codebase and keeping it all working in multiple systems is
amazing and a feat worth of awards but, don't let the convenience of having
that funky download page with all the versions fool you, building LC is not
that easy especially if you're targeting a new ISA/OS combination.

The ideal way in my humble but educated opinion is for LC GPL to be added
to the ports collection of FreeBSD, this is described in the FreeBSD
porters handbook:

https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/index.html

This is probably not a weekend project and not for the faint of heart. It
will require a lot of work to do this properly, but it can be done.

Before dismissing someone volunteering their own time to work on a FreeBSD
port based on that system's market share remember that Macs used to be a
very small percentage of the market. Under the same rules, LC shouldn't
have focused at all on having it working on Macs, clearly Windows was 90%
of the global marketshare. FreeBSD has a ton of stuff going for it and the
wave of people migrating from Linux towards a BSD experience has been
growing steadily since the encroaching of systemd and other "decisions"
have moved Linux away from a more traditional UNIX experience. Lots of the
shiny things people are doing with Linux have been a part of day to day
life of FreeBSD users much earlier and is usually provided in a more
cohesive experience, such as Jails vs Docker.

I advise people who haven't seen modern FreeBSD workflows to check their
foundation youtube channel, there is a lot of nice in-depth videos there
that might help people see it through new eyes. That being said, I don't
think that LC HQ should dedicate their time to do it, they need to focus on
what produces money regardless of how I or other users here feel about
different operating systems.




On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 03:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Pi Digital wrote:
>
>  > Here’s my take (for what it’s worth). Although Unix is used in 71.6%
>  > (source: w3techs.com) of all known websites as of today and Linux only
>  > 29.0%, at least we have ‘a’ distro that works on some server.
>
> That struck me as odd, so I took a moment to see how they derived that
> impressive Unix number (thanks for including the source).
>
> It turns out they're lumping Unix and Linux together under "Unix" - when
> you click "Unix" you get this breakdown:
>
> Subcategories of Unix
>
> This diagram shows the percentages of websites using various
> subcategories of Unix.
>
> How to read the diagram:
> Linux is used by 40.5% of all the websites who use Unix
>
> Websites who use Unix
> Linux   40.5%
> BSD 0.5%
> Darwin less than 0.1%
> HP-UX  less than 0.1%
> Solarisless than 0.1%
> Minix  less than 0.1%
> Unknown59.0%
>
> I'd wager most of the 59% using "Unknown" are also Linux.
>
> That would line up well enough with what we see at the Wikipedia page
> for server OS market share:
>
>Linux   FreeBSDUnknown  Windows
> W3Cook July 201596.4% 1.7%   0%  1.9%
> W3TechsFeb  201535.9%   0.95%   30.9%   32.3%
> Security Space  Feb 2014   <79.3% N/A   >20.7%
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Public_servers_on_the_Internet
>
> While Windows has a strong showing in the enterprise for internal
> servers, public-facing servers are by far a Linux story.
>
> This is not only true for most shared and VPS hosting, but public clouds
> as well, with Google, Amazon, and Apple all using Linux to drive their
> infrastructure, and even though Azure is a Win/Linux mix there's a
> surprising amount of Linux going on there (with Ubuntu being the leading
> choice inside containers).
>
> I bring this up not just because I'm a Linux fanboy (though I am and
> make no apologies; I was even worse when I used to be a Mac fanboy ),
> but just as a long-winded way to help support your main thesis:
>
> Aside from new architectures like Linux ARM (Raspberry Pi), the most
> commonly-used platforms where LiveCode Serer would be used are well
> supported.
>
> So, as you wrote:
>
>  > Seriously, if anyone was considering doing this, please..., please,
>  > reconsider and put your efforts and talent into fixing what we already
>  > have. It would be far more 

Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

[Andre Garzia via use-livecode]

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 21:31, Paul McClernan via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> >
> > OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
> > of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".
> >
> > I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
> > but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile
> it.
> > Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?
> >
>
> As others mentioned, this is dated information. However, last I checked
> macOS (or rather the "Darwin" layer of macOS) is POSIX compliant and built
> from BSD UNIX 4.4 & bits of FreeBSD. So, I would not be all that surprised
> if a LiveCode for macOS GUI-less/CLI executable could run on some other
> BSD.
>
>
That is not really how this works.

macOS is built on top of old NEXTSTEP and it is POSIX compliant but
that doesn't mean that LC from mac can work on BSD. MacOS uses the XNU
kernel, its executable file format and shared library file format are
unique and not related at all to anything that a BSD can run.

FreeBSD can run Linux binaries though as can be seen in the FreeBSD
Handbook:

https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/linuxemu.html

This is done through emulation and I can't vouch for the performance or
correctness of it but, in theory you can install the necessary components
and libraries and then be able to run the Linux version of LC in FreeBSD.

Another option is trying to build from source. To be effective, this would
require knowledge of the FreeBSD ports and packages system besides knowing
enough of LC source and C++ to patch anything needed. I bet they'd love
such a contribution if you have the chops to do it.


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