Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-10 Thread James E. Lang
--On Wednesday, September 09, 2009 08:38:41 PM +0200 M Henri Day mhenri...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/9 Bernd Eilers bernd.eil...@sun.com Hi there! Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-10 Thread James E. Lang
--On Wednesday, September 09, 2009 03:00:01 PM +0200 Per Joh perj...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/9 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning.

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-09 Thread Lars Nooden
Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning. Try it. Lemme guess, you were surprised each and every time Lucy didn't let Charlie Brown kick the football, right? Regards -Lars

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-09 Thread Per Joh
2009/9/9 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning. Try it. FWIW Now it’s time for me to “log-of” this list, ´cause it’s to much

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-09 Thread Lars Nooden
Per Joh wrote: Now it’s time for me to “log-of” this list Be sure to unsubscribe. Welcome back at a future date when you are ready to improve OOo or understand what 'learning curve' means: http://openoffice.blogs.com/openoffice/2006/02/microsoft_offic.html Regards, -Lars

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-09 Thread Gene Young
Per Joh wrote: 2009/9/9 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org Cor Nouws wrote: ... So anything that might look as being related (even in distance) cannot be else then bad also, isn't it?! Hmm. It's called learning. Try it. FWIW Now it’s time for me to “log-of” this list, ´cause

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-09 Thread Bernd Eilers
Hi there! Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this:

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-09 Thread M Henri Day
2009/9/9 Bernd Eilers bernd.eil...@sun.com Hi there! Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-08 Thread Lars Nooden
Cor Nouws wrote: Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this:

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-08 Thread Lars Nooden
M Henri Day wrote: I should have nothing against an updating to the OOo GUI, but I can't help thinking that it's what's under the hood that is most important. Still, we - the developers - do have to keep in mind that new users to OOo are often going to have a background in MS Office 2007 and

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-08 Thread M Henri Day
2009/9/8 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org M Henri Day wrote: I should have nothing against an updating to the OOo GUI, but I can't help thinking that it's what's under the hood that is most important. Still, we - the developers - do have to keep in mind that new users to OOo are

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-08 Thread Cor Nouws
Hi Lars, Lars Nooden wrote (8-9-2009 11:53) Not so friendly. It's the ribbon all over again. This really looks as if you have to wash your eyes. And/or try to learn that you cannot have truth on your side always. In your many (often useful) contributions, you show that you know for sure

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-07 Thread Mathias Bauer
M Henri Day wrote: 2009/9/6 Mathias Bauer nospamfor...@gmx.de Lars Nooden wrote: Stop fucking around. EOD for me. All your contributions to this discussion where full of allegations, insinuations and now insults. Not my style. Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-07 Thread Lars Nooden
Mathias Bauer wrote: ... They deserve a better treament than insinuations that they just would be out for aping the r*. Unless that is what they are doing. :P If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... -Lars

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-07 Thread Barbara Duprey
Lars Nooden wrote: Mathias Bauer wrote: ... They deserve a better treament than insinuations that they just would be out for aping the r*. Unless that is what they are doing. :P If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... -Lars But what if it sings like

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-07 Thread Bernd Eilers
Barbara Duprey wrote: Lars Nooden wrote: Mathias Bauer wrote: ... They deserve a better treament than insinuations that they just would be out for aping the r*. Unless that is what they are doing. :P If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... -Lars But

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-07 Thread Cor Nouws
Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this:

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-07 Thread M Henri Day
2009/9/7 Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl Lars Nooden wrote (7-9-2009 10:01) If it looks like duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ... To make it easier for you, to see a bit of the latest prototype (0.16), a Dutch journalist was so friendly to publish this:

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-07 Thread Cor Nouws
Mathias Bauer wrote (6-9-2009 22:58) Thanks, finally someone understood what I meant. [...] Well, I guess it's not that bad. There must be some, ehh, much more who understand ;-) Cor -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact - Community Contributor Representative in the

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-06 Thread M Henri Day
2009/9/6 Mathias Bauer nospamfor...@gmx.de Lars Nooden wrote: Stop fucking around. EOD for me. All your contributions to this discussion where full of allegations, insinuations and now insults. Not my style. Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-06 Thread Mathias Bauer
Cor Nouws wrote: Hi Lars, Lars Nooden wrote (4-9-2009 14:52) It is even more so to pretend that calling the ribbon by another name will make everything ok. If you mean this text by Matthias: Mathias Bauer wrote (3-9-2009 10:34) Dotan Cohen wrote: What exactly are the arguments

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-06 Thread Mathias Bauer
Lars Nooden wrote: Stop fucking around. EOD for me. All your contributions to this discussion where full of allegations, insinuations and now insults. Not my style. Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun:

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-04 Thread Lars Nooden
James E. Lang wrote: Vulgarities are neither welcome nor useful on this list (IMNSHO). Get over it. Stronger ones are unfortunately not available and the ones available do severely understate the stupidity and harm of the proposal / troll to imitate the ribbon. It's quite vulgar propose to do a

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-04 Thread Cor Nouws
Hi Lars, Lars Nooden wrote (4-9-2009 14:52) It is even more so to pretend that calling the ribbon by another name will make everything ok. If you mean this text by Matthias: Mathias Bauer wrote (3-9-2009 10:34) Dotan Cohen wrote: What exactly are the arguments against the Microsoft

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-04 Thread Robert Holtzman
On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 07:43:10PM -0700, James E. Lang wrote: Vulgarities are neither welcome nor useful on this list (IMNSHO). Don't let the door hit you in your overly delicate sensibilities on your way out. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-03 Thread Mathias Bauer
Lars Nooden wrote: Mathias Bauer wrote: I can even imagine a much simpler approach: just keep the old UI as an option and use usage tracking to find out how many users switch to it. Studies for the courts found in 1996 that even back then 60% kept the default settings. By now it's close

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-03 Thread Lars Nooden
Mathias Bauer wrote: Lars Nooden wrote: Mathias Bauer wrote: I can even imagine a much simpler approach: just keep the old UI as an option and use usage tracking to find out how many users switch to it. Studies for the courts found in 1996 that even back then 60% kept the default

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-03 Thread Lars Nooden
Mathias Bauer wrote: I think that this is more or less what I am trying to tell also. But to avoid the Pavlovian response that the word ribbon seems to create, I would like to use a different wording: Again, see my point from the previous message: Lars Nooden wrote: Copying a failure like

Re: [users] UI work (Re: [users] Petition against OOo Renaissance)

2009-09-03 Thread James E. Lang
Vulgarities are neither welcome nor useful on this list (IMNSHO). -- Jim --On Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:10:27 PM +0300 Lars Nooden larsnoo...@openoffice.org wrote: - To unsubscribe, e-mail: