Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 11:59 PM, Russ George wrote: If you listen to Shawyer speak (find his interview on Youtube) he goes > overboard on stating how dangerous the microwave radiation is and how great > care must be taken to avoid it. > I think you misunderstood my

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

If you listen to Shawyer speak (find his interview on Youtube) he goes overboard on stating how dangerous the microwave radiation is and how great care must be taken to avoid it. Clearly he has a lifetime of professional experience with this and thus surely has as perfectly as likely possible

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:53 PM, Russ George wrote: Given the apparent healthy condition of the experimentalists and the > presence and proximity of the intense microwaves they are convincing living > lab rat detectors. For the sake of argument, the EM radiation need

Fwd: [Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

My plastic detector corrected link. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/temp/PlasticDetect.mp4 Frank Znidarsic

Fwd: [Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

My plastic detector http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/temp/plasticDetect.mp4 Frank Znidarsic

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to David Roberson's message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 20:56:31 -0400: Hi, [snip] >Trick question. All of the energy used by the electric drive could be >accounted for from the frame of the car by observing frictional losses, wind >movement, heat emissions, etc. It would not be easy to

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to David Roberson's message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 20:49:21 -0400: Hi, [snip] >The problem would show up if the space ship then reversed his maneuver and >returned back to that original frame. Both people would again calculate >approximately the same mass conversion that occurs due to

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

By way of speaking about human microwave lab rat detectors in Antarctica in the shack to get in from the cold there is a microwave oven, the crew has carved a nice piece of plastic that can be inserted into the door lock out so that the microwave can be turned on with the door open… 5-10

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Given the apparent healthy condition of the experimentalists and the presence and proximity of the intense microwaves they are convincing living lab rat detectors. From: Eric Walker [mailto:eric.wal...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 8:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re:

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Russ George wrote: Alas the paradox of the EM drive thrust is that nothing observable or known > escapes the sealed system, so no photons leaving… I have little reason to doubt that you are correct. But do other people agree that this is

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Alas the paradox of the EM drive thrust is that nothing observable or known escapes the sealed system, so no photons leaving… perhaps gravitons or Cherenkov magnetons are escaping but that’s tantamount to the propellant being dark matter. The latter might not be so far-fetched if one imagines

[Vo]:Rewind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3q2XXeasAA No machine can do this, but then again must cause and effect respect mechanical laws? Harry

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

Including the energy contained in electric, gravitational and magnetic potential energy? Including chemical and nuclear energy? All energy is motion of the vacuum? In what sense can these types of energy be motion of the vacuum? On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 3:55 PM, wrote: >

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

In reply to John Berry's message of Tue, 15 Mar 2016 11:28:55 +1300: Hi, [snip] >Maybe energy can be created or destroyed in a net manner by some alteration of >the vacuum? All energy comprises vacuum in motion. In order to destroy it, you have to remove the local motion from the universe.

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Bob Cook wrote: If a pulsed magnetic field is involved in the EM drive it may be that > effective momentum is sent off into space as a pulsed magnetic field with > some effective mass associated with the average intensity of the magnetic

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

Ian Walker wrote: > So oil will drop to 15% of its expected value from that 2014 high. > When the demand for a commodity rapidly drops by 85%, it does not follow that the value also falls by 85%. In most cases it will fall even more than that, as sellers become desperate

[Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

If a pulsed magnetic field is involved in the EM drive it may be that effective momentum is sent off into space as a pulsed magnetic field with some effective mass associated with the average intensity of the magnetic field pulse—energy associated with the pulse. Einstein suggested that all

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

RF interference is not imaginary. Simply turning on and off the power might work provided you place a shield near the meter to look for changes to the reading. Did he perform that test? I will watch the video to see how well he handled the questionable issues. I watched an earlier one and

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

The description of how the EM drive should move makes me think of a movie of a rocket played backwards. The movie-in-reverse-rocket would initially accelerate a lot and then the rate of acceleration would decrease until it stops accelerating and is at rest or coasting. I have also read that the EM

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Trick question. All of the energy used by the electric drive could be accounted for from the frame of the car by observing frictional losses, wind movement, heat emissions, etc. It would not be easy to calculate, but the information should be there. Dave -Original Message-

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

But Robin, there is no kinetic energy associated with a moving object in its own reference frame. It will know that it accelerated because it can directly sense that operation, but once the drive cuts out it is at rest in its latest frame. I suppose a spaceman on the EM Drive powered ship

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I think you are ‘over thinking’ watch the Youtube vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbf7735o3hQ and I believe your suggested issues are amply set to rest… The same Romanian guy and others have simply turned their EM drives upside down and

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I am just pointing out that when wires are attached it is simply too easy for outside forces to interfere with the results. How confident are you that the overall force he measures does not have a significant force contribution due to the current flowing through the wires? If not 100%, then

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

That gives his claim far more credit in my eyes. Gravitational anomalies (and others) occurring with free energy is common enough. And indicates there is something real behind it. John On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, H Ucar wrote: > > Hi Robin, > > "My comment is that I

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Opps the BBC Two EM Drive program in the 23rd of March not yesterday…. While waiting to see it here is a link to an view of the EM Drive future https://vimeo.com/108650530 From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alain Sepeda Sent: Monday, March 14,

[Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

I don't know why my original comment appears above the subject. I wouldn't be surprised if this turns up in another thread altogether. H Ucar, I remember reading > a year ago that Yildiz was promised a several day trial in a specially isolated room, but the university backed off. That is what

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Anyone in the UK? Apparently there is, yesterday, BBC broadcast featuring Shawyer and his EM Drive… someone could please make it available on YouTube http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0752f85 From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alain Sepeda Sent:

[Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

Hi Robin, "My comment is that I think it's powered by a resonant connection with the  cyclotron radiation of the protons of the Van Allen belts. IOW Tesla's "wheelwork of nature", but that implies a limited amount of energy available world wide." Mr. Yildiz had mentioned a gravitational

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

It is easy to establish how much energy is in a magnetic field. Just see how much energy would need to be used up to establish such a magnetic field with a superconductor coil. Even a superconductor coil requires a voltage to establish a current due to the impedance involved. As such there is a

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

Can anyone really argue though that the conservation of energy is not merely a general observation and a philosophical concept. It is fine to say "I can't see how it could be done" given the assumption that there is symmetry in the underlying mechanics of simultaneous creation of one energy and

[Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

a.ashfield wrote: "With known science the only way it could work is by using up the potential energy of the permanent magnets" I think the energy related to permanent magnets are overstated. A NdFeB magnet can be demagnetized easily by heating without a spectacular energy outcome.  From

RE: [Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

What? You have a problem with making plastic more digestible to slime… I used to keep a stack of petri dishes of pet slime molds, it was known as the tower of slime. Towers are popular with slime. From: John Berry [mailto:berry.joh...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:47 PM To:

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

Hi all I wrote a report about this back in 2012 and revised it several times and was permitted to make part of it public in 2013 a substantial proportion of the report in a rough edited version was made available on Sifferkol's website last year:

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

In reply to H Ucar's message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:34:25 +0200: Hi Hamdi, [snip] >I did not expected that this issue would be totally ignored here. So >reciprocally, don't blame acedemic community for their own ignorances. My comment is that I think it's powered by a resonant connection with

RE: [Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

PLA has a very good lifetime in use 'on the shelf' it doesn't begin to breakdown until it is kept in the warm, wet, and dark though it has a relatively short lifetime in the direct sun of some many months so you would not want to make an inflatable back yard wading pool for your children... on the

[Vo]:back to #12 even at the higher price

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/159789011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kstore_1_6_last

Re: [Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

In reply to Russ George's message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:36:03 -0700: Hi, [snip] >Far better to just start replacing all of the polyethylene with polylacticacid >PLA plastic which all bacteria find delicious. All of the worlds PLA plastic >needs could be met using a sustainable harvest of a

Re: [Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

I think the word "Trumps" is one that people might find a bit disconcerting at this juncture. Unless by "trumping" you mean to attract racists and incite violence. On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Russ George wrote: > Far better to just start replacing all of the

RE: [Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

Far better to just start replacing all of the polyethylene with polylacticacid PLA plastic which all bacteria find delicious. All of the worlds PLA plastic needs could be met using a sustainable harvest of a small fraction of the sargassum seaweed that fills the Sargasso Sea! Just take care of

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

We can adore Shawyer for his engineering, that doesn’t mean we have to love his physics ;) From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alain Sepeda Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 2:13 PM To: Vortex List Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s) the claim of

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Jones Beene's message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 12:20:14 -0700: Hi, [snip] >If so, and the EM drive is moving in aether, then leaving a wake (bow wave, >eddy turbulence, kelvin wake, etc) also leaves a mass-equivalence. The cause of red-shift perhaps? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk

Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:EM Drive(s)

In reply to Russ George's message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:51:50 -0700: Hi, [snip] >In >either case the 'thermal radiator' will be the challenge. If the engine, with small shield, is at the end of a long connector with the living quarters, then the long walls of the connector can be used as

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to David Roberson's message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 14:44:33 -0400: Hi, [snip] >From the EM drive's point of view the CoE must be violated because as it >accelerates in space a portion of it's mass must be converted into energy that >is used to power the drive. When it ceases to use the

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

the claim of shawyer is that the energy inside the cavity is destroyed by acceleration. he propose something linked to doppler detuning. this is one theory. MiHsC have another vision where vacuum energy, information, horizon and mach principle are important factors. CoE, CoM are respected by

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

In reply to Vibrator !'s message of Mon, 14 Mar 2016 11:03:43 +: Hi, [snip] >And so the question arises, how does the EM drive "know" what its reference >frame is? Shawyer claims (or seems to imply) that the unit cost of >acceleration increases as we would normally expect (distance over

[Vo]:Bacteria able to eat plastic bottles discovered by scientists

By the way, here is some other news about plastics that has been widely reported in Japan. This is good news for once. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/bacteria-able-to-eat-plastic-bottles-discovered-by-scientists-a6927636.html - Jed

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

David Roberson wrote: I suspect that the transportation of oil as well as its production cost > would make it desirable to find local sources for the elements needed in > those related products. As far as I know, the only thing you want in plastic feedstock is "pure

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Are you saying ‘why doesn’t this experimentalist do his experiment your way?’ That’s a bit presumptuous, clearly this guy has put in a lot of effort and diligence. His results are consistent with what other diligent experimentalists in the field have presented, faithfully matching their

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

This subject has been discussed before and no one has ever convinced the crowd that magnetic motors can run for very extended periods of time while actually performing measurable amounts of work. It is entirely possible to slowly degrade the permanent magnets as their fields are converted into

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I would love to see a real EM Drive but it is impossible to believe an experiment with external power supply lines attached. Electric motors operate by utilizing the forces that exist between current carrying conductors. Two wires will always push or pull against each other when they carry

[Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

It is a complex situation for sure. It took 6 years for such an document to be publicly available. It is a first in the history for a device of apparently a perpetual machine of the first kind!  The motor I observed running at the convention is a 5 kW design but only one of four of magnetic

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Here’s a link to a great EM Drive DIY experiment http://www.masinaelectrica.com/emdrive-independent-test/#comment-10348 From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 12:36 PM To:

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I suppose we will have to discover that aether before we can have confidence in that possibility. Would you expect a normal rocket to behave in the same manner if it had to push the aether out of its way? Why would that not require both effects to be present thereby changing the reaction

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

I vote for accumulated time dilation that unbalances one of the spatial axii wrt radiation pressure – the geometry and the microwave energy conspire to slightly segregate the vacuum density in the cavity and the radiation path slightly prefers one region of segregation over the other, bouncing

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

I suspect that the transportation of oil as well as its production cost would make it desirable to find local sources for the elements needed in those related products. After all, every element that oil is produced from is present just about everywhere, particularly if you decide to take

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Stated another way – does the aether have mass or mass-equivalence (virtual mass or effective mass)? If so, and the EM drive is moving in aether, then leaving a wake (bow wave, eddy turbulence, kelvin wake, etc) also leaves a mass-equivalence. From: David Roberson Good

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

I have noticed a significant reduction in train cars transporting coal to the east coast throughout this region. It gives me concern for the health of the railroad system that depends upon this market. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell To:

RE: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:EM Drive(s)

Clearly a small but very powerful submarine type nuclear fission reactor looks to be able to power a substantial starship. The reactor would need very little heavy shielding as it could be positioned so as to shield only the tiny sector of emissions directed at vulnerable sections of the ship. No

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

David Roberson wrote: You have put together an excellent list of current products that are > produced from petroleum. The question is whether or not good replacements > for these needs can be obtained once energy costs become insignificant. Why would we replace them? Oil

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Good argument. I just wanted to add one thought. >From the EM drive's point of view the CoE must be violated because as it >accelerates in space a portion of it's mass must be converted into energy that >is used to power the drive. When it ceases to use the drive it begins to >remain

RE: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:EM Drive(s)

Even kilowatts of electrical energy for kilowatts of propellant-less thrust - don't need to get OU if we can just dispense with carrying fuel! -Original Message- From: Russ George [mailto:russ.geo...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2016 4:40 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject:

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

Mark, You have put together an excellent list of current products that are produced from petroleum. The question is whether or not good replacements for these needs can be obtained once energy costs become insignificant. Dave -Original Message- From: MarkI-ZeroPoint

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

OK. I have always seen evidence that linear and angular momentums are orthogonal to each other somewhat like sine waves and cosine waves. Each one is conserved independently of the other. This is a classical viewpoint so perhaps there may exist a quantum mechanical version that is different,

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

I wrote: > Once the writing is on the wall the price will collapse and never recover. > I think it is starting to do that with coal, because natural gas, wind and > solar have taken a large fraction of the coal market, and there is no > reason to think they will not take the rest of it away over

RE: [Vo]: Bremsstrahlung experimental note

It’s right there for all to see hidden behind the Cheshire Cat’s grin! From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 11:07 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Bremsstrahlung experimental note Can you point out the location of the mouse in Rossi's

Re: [Vo]: Bremsstrahlung experimental note

Can you point out the location of the mouse in Rossi's patent? Dave -Original Message- From: Axil Axil To: vortex-l Sent: Sun, Mar 13, 2016 3:34 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]: Bremsstrahlung experimental note Something is getting out of the

[Vo]:today a bit about accountability in LENR

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/03/mar-14-2016-lenr-today-about.html I still cannot show you the Balance of the Accountant re energy bought and sold in the Test- however I am discussing about accountability In LENR affairs. Wish you well, including brave patience Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck

RE: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Great vibrations but where you say, “Without physical reaction mass, such a system has its own unique reference frame - from within which, energy may be conserved, but which from without, cannot be.” Might we start using common terminology…. Your description is of course more popularly known

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

The common wisdom is that the laws of motion are not necessarily in effect when a mind is moved. In this situation a given action does not necessarily result in an equal and opposite reaction. Action instigates a response which from the point of view of the action appears as an under or an over

RE: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

It appears from various threads that the issue of ionizing radiation emissions is still unsettled. That could bring up yet more NIMBY-ism. For example, I bought a gift that was a glow in the dark keychain, powered by tritium. I had to buy it off Ebay from Britain as the US is too phobic to

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

Axil Axil wrote: That opinion is an overreaction. It will take 20 to 30 years before any > fraction of transportation is converted over to LENR. > I do not know how long it will take to get started. I cannot predict when cold fusion will become a practical source of energy.

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

I wrote: > The non-energy use of oil used to be about 10% of total production, > including about 2% for plastic feedstock. Some natural gas is also used in > nonenergy applications. > Correction: it was 17% in 2000. It was 6.4 quads out of 38.8 for petroleum. See the last page here:

RE: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

Thermal depolymerization will require refineries, of a sort – together with the attendant cancer-causing leaks/byproducts. And there will be the usual NIMBY-ism about their siteing. Maybe they could convert existing refineries or ship them off to the third world, in which bribes and

Re: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

MarkI-ZeroPoint wrote: Although the largest uses for petroleum are energy/transportation, which > would be replaced by LENR, there are numerous other uses for petroleum > which will not be replaced by LENR, so there will always be some market for > it. > The non-energy

RE: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

It is not ignored. It is a complicated situation. There are NDAs. Like LENR, the technology works on occasion, but not reliably. From: H Ucar I did not expected that this issue would be totally ignored here. So reciprocally, don't blame acedemic community for their own

Re: [Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

H Ucar, "I did not expected that this issue would be totally ignored here. So reciprocally, don't blame acedemic community for their own ignorances." I had seen various articles about the Yildiz motor over the years that looked intriguing but often had a sad ending where the promised

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

Yes, and this is why KE = 1/2 MV^2 - ie., why the acceleration unit cost escalates; a given force has to be applied over an ever-greater distance as velocity (time rate of change of position) increases. Alternatively, we could hold displacement constant and progressively raise the force

[Vo]:Re: Declaration from Eindhoven University of Technology related to M. Yildiz magnet motor

I did not expected that this issue would be totally ignored here. So reciprocally, don't blame acedemic community for their own ignorances. -- Original message--From: H UcarDate: Sat, Mar 5, 2016 21:36To: vortex-l@eskimo.com;Cc: Subject:Declaration from Eindhoven University of

Re: [Vo]:Re: EM Drive(s)

"Acceleration produces a force. Force times distance = energy. " I am aware that this is a well-vetted, common equation; but if used in this case, then an object accelerating at 1 m/s^2 for 10 seconds, and travelling at 200 m/s, with respect to a common point, would require approximately

RE: [Vo]:NY Times, "How Saudi Arabia Turned Its Greatest Weapon on Itself"

Although the largest uses for petroleum are energy/transportation, which would be replaced by LENR, there are numerous other uses for petroleum which will not be replaced by LENR, so there will always be some market for it. Here are some of those other uses: Agriculture One of the most