Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread Mark Gibbs
What is a Hydroton? I googled the term and all I could find were references to a clay-based plant growing medium much prized by marijuana growers ... [mg] On Thursday, May 30, 2013, Harry Veeder wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comjavascript:_e({},

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread James Bowery
I asked Ed to try to find another keyword for precisely that reason. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:10 AM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote: What is a Hydroton? I googled the term and all I could find were references to a clay-based plant growing medium much prized by marijuana growers ...

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.comwrote: I'm not talking about initiating. I'm talking about sustaining. I have no problem using electricity to initiate the ecat. But if it's a source

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: A match is needed to ignite a firecracker, but once ignited, the explosion sustains itself. A match is needed to start a campfire, but not to sustain it. Cold

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:23 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: There seems to be a serious hangup over why a heat generating device needs some form of heating input to sustain itself. The skeptics can not seem to get their arms around this issue so I will make another short attempt

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: If we are going to do analogies, a more useful one would be to compare the Rossi reactor to an internal combustion engine ICE. With an ICE you have to apply the spark periodically to small portions of the fuel to

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: As dave explains it makes sense if the energy input provides cooling power. Exactly. The whole thing is nuts. If it really needed to be regulated, it would make sense to regulate with temperature controlled cooling.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.comwrote: I agree Dave, I have been providing this explanation for several years without any effect. I'm glad you are adding your voice. The critical point at which the temperature must be reduced depends on the degree of thermal

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:52 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Josh, what is common sense now becomes ancient history when the newest theories come out. Yes, I know that happens sometimes. And sometimes things that are common sense remain common sense. But I think you

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Bill Beaty has an excellent quote on this subject, here: http://amasci.com/weird/vmore.html Every fact of science was once damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 4:47 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: If someone is looking for an analogy they could look at the behavior of a power transistor mounted on a heat sink. For this exercise assume that the collector is directly connected to a power source. Apply enough base

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: . But my sense tells me that a significant number of scientists are starting to take genuine interest and that they will stay tuned for further details. Read the cold fusion forums for the last 24 years. This has

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, and only in a diesel engine do you not need a battery to keep spark plugs going. Demanding a self-sustaining device is like demanding a diesel engine. ICEs were first developed in the 1860s, and the diesel engine

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I think this is more about who is the gatekeeper to the ideology and business of science rather than any exercise in ethics. The gatekeeper class resents this clique of stiff necked maverick scientists who have the

RE: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Charles Francis
Why expect 2-phase customisation for a relatively low-priority scientific experiment? 3-phase design make sense in the context of the concurrent high-priority finalisation, testing and shipping of a purported 1 MW device, which at a claimed COP of 6 would need an electrical input of 167 KW.

Re: [Vo]:Comment by Anderson at Forbes

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: I’m a Professor Ameritus in Electrical Engineering ... Everything I read in the 29 page report, and following challenges as answered by the

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: OK -- in fig 6 (Dec) they show a blue-and-yellow CONTROL box and three triacs. They don't have a picture for March, so we don't know if it includes the functionality of the blue-and-yellow box or just replaces the triac.

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: My guess is that he is designing for industrial applications. It's not gonna be useful for industrial purposes with a COP of 3; remember the electricity was made with an efficiency of 1/3. It's gonna have to be

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:39 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: There are advantages to using a three phase power input that have been pointed out. For this application, the disadvantages are greater. Measurements of 3 phase systems are done every day so this is not important.

RE: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread MarkI-ZeroPoint
Josh: Eric's comment about not needing a battery to keep spark plugs going was referring to a DIESEL engine, and diesels don't have spark plugs. The compression ratio is high enough to cause ignition of the diesel fuel when the piston reaches TDC. They do have 'glow' plugs for starting the

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: I don't buy it. The reactor is a sealed faraday cage, so it's not going to care about ripple or dc vs ac. It's just a thermal interface.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Axil Axil
And then there is a class of non-paid sycophant apologists that make it their business to curry favor with the gatekeepers. They divine what the hierarchy wants and proceed to do their best to impress the powers that be. They want to be like them; like a kid who wants to be “Babe Ruth so they

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 2:32 AM, MarkI-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.netwrote: Josh: ** ** Eric’s comment about not needing a battery to keep spark plugs going was referring to a DIESEL engine, and diesels don’t have spark plugs. He said you need a battery for an internal combustion

Re: [Vo]:some more information about the december 2012 Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: I do not understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that Rossi was present? Or that that he interfered with the experiment? I do not think that Levi or his co-authors has said that Rossi was absent. Only

Re: [Vo]:Comment by Anderson at Forbes

2013-05-31 Thread Kevin O'Malley
Yes it is unfair. Quit sneering. It is a violation of rule #2. One of the debunkers was recently removed due to sneering. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, May 30,

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:35 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I thought that the DC issue was put to rest. Only according to the credulous true believers. Essen said they excluded it, but he didn't say how. If we're just going to accept what they say without scrutiny, then why

Re: [Vo]:Removing nickel oxide layer

2013-05-31 Thread Teslaalset
I talked with Celani about the use of Zeolites but he's not very supporting using zeolites when it comes to preventing sintering of the actual nickel powder. Maybe I am a bit bypassed by Celani. I have some Nickel sputtered carbon powder that I will use for first tests the upcoming period. I like

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Kevin O'Malley
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: Seriously? Do you really not know how an internal combustion engine works? Man, this place is crawling with ignoramuses. ***Sneering. Against the rules.

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Kevin O'Malley
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:18 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 3:35 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.comwrote: I thought that the DC issue was put to rest. Only according to the credulous true believers. you want it to be true. ***Sneering.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 31-5-2013 4:45, Eric Walker wrote: Yes, and only in a diesel engine do you not need a battery to keep spark plugs going. Call me a nitpicker, but I think it should probably read: Yes, and only in a diesel engine do you not need ANYTHING to keep spark plugs going. Of course, because

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 30-5-2013 22:48, Edmund Storms wrote: I agree Dave, I have been providing this explanation for several years without any effect. I'm glad you are adding your voice. The critical point at which the temperature must be reduced depends on the degree of thermal contact between the source

[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:“The Lithium Problem”

2013-05-31 Thread Alain Sepeda
Interesting. It seems that with the resonance hypothesis, like Einstein did with Sternglass, they explore the evident possibility of collective behaviors. I won't be surprised if some young theorist in closed room, consider some ideas from LENR, but carefully don't cite that banned domain... It

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Robert Lynn
Kevin, that doesn't look like sneering to me, more like simply Joshua's assessment of the motivations for positions that others are taking, without invective or nastiness that I can see. I am generally saddened to see the recent witch-hunt/culling of dissent/heresy in the Vort. The 'sneering'

[Vo]:Unidentified subject!

2013-05-31 Thread Charles Francis
k0iwFQ32HjA@ma il.gmail.com In-Reply-To: cadzc6n9pielm6_xd4qakmtt-lmozaq8xmplp3obk0iwfq32...@mail.gmail.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:50:32 +0200 Message-ID: 001601ce5dec$ac655470$052ffd50$@ch MIME-Version: 1.0

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Berke Durak
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: Good grief. The resistors are coils, presumably helical solenoids with the axis parallel to the reactor cylinder. The magnetic field is near zero outside a solenoid, except at the ends. The magnetic field outside a

[Vo]:Unidentified subject!

2013-05-31 Thread Charles Francis
k0iwFQ32HjA@ma il.gmail.com In-Reply-To: cadzc6n9pielm6_xd4qakmtt-lmozaq8xmplp3obk0iwfq32...@mail.gmail.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:55:08 +0200 Message-ID: 002101ce5ded$511424b0$f33c6e10$@ch MIME-Version: 1.0

[Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Berke Durak
To deceive an electronics guy, one may use a chemistry trick. To deceive a chemist, one may use software tricks. To deceive a computer scientist, one may use a physics trick. But using an electricity trick to deceive a group of experts sent by a power industry association is stupid. -- Berke

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Rob Dingemans
Hi, On 31-5-2013 12:44, Robert Lynn wrote: I am generally saddened to see the recent witch-hunt/culling of dissent/heresy in the Vort. The 'sneering' rule is being applied asymmetrically, and frankly of late it is becoming more like a doctrinal church. Killing off opposing views like Abd,

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Jouni Valkonen
On May 31, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: There's various ways to create illusions, and I don't necessarily know how it might have been done. That is very healthy attitude. Many people often forget how easy it is to create illusions and how hard it is expose them

Re: [Vo]:Crystals of Time

2013-05-31 Thread Roarty, Francis X
Robin, I would agree with your atoms as time crystals assessment. IMHO or working man's model, Time and gravity are related in a relativistic way. the nucleus opposes displacement along the time axis much more than it's orbitals such that the electrons swirl behind on their electrical tethers

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread Edmund Storms
On May 30, 2013, at 11:39 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: Harry, imagine balls held in line by springs. If the end ball is pull away with a force and let go, a resonance wave will pass down the line. Each ball will

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread Edmund Storms
Mark, the word Hydroton is a word I applied to the structure required to cause fusion between hydrogen isotopes. It consists of a linear molecule of hydrogen, deuterium or tritium nuclei held together by 2p bonding of electrons. It can only form in a gap in a solid material having a

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
Josh, I am quite happy to see that you are finally willing to discuss the operation of a positive feedback system. Every one of your points can be addressed and explained. It would be easier to handle only a couple at a time since that would allow us to focus upon the particular issue until

Re: [Vo]:Gibbs: Rossi's A Fraud! No, He's Not! Yes, He Is! No, He Isn't!

2013-05-31 Thread Jed Rothwell
Harry Veeder wrote: I suspect hand waving began as a derisive reference to occult activities since these might involve the waving of hands and/or a wand. . That does sound like the word origin. Similar to hocus-pocus. I think Gibbs meant something like papering over a problem or hiding the

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Edmund Storms
On May 31, 2013, at 4:40 AM, Rob Dingemans wrote: Hi, On 30-5-2013 22:48, Edmund Storms wrote: I agree Dave, I have been providing this explanation for several years without any effect. I'm glad you are adding your voice. The critical point at which the temperature must be reduced depends

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
It is great to see that we are in such close agreement. Let's handle the issues related to positive feedback as I requested and you will improve your understanding. I promise to squawk if I see any attempts by Rossi to fake the process. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
Of course it is not the exact same. Positive heat feedback is what we are mainly interested in. You know that, so why bring up the obvious differences? Compare the similarities for an analogy. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com To: vortex-l

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
Josh, please refrain from insults. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 3:07 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Eric Walker

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
Josh, your entire theory will be shot if you acknowledge that the COP is greater than 1. Are you now ready to accept this condition? Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 3:22 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:new

Re: [Vo]:Comment by Anderson at Forbes

2013-05-31 Thread Jed Rothwell
Cude wrote: Is it unfair to be suspicious if he can't spell his own title? On the contrary, this adds versimillitude to his posting. Based on my experience editing papers, I conclude that many American chemistry professors cannot spell. Neither can I, but I use voice input so I can

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
Every one of the points you make are pure speculation. There is absolutely no evidence that Rossi is using 3 phase power to conduct any scam. How do you expect for anyone to believe your side of the discussion if there is never any proof of any one of your points? You are basically shooting

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Jed Rothwell
Robert Lynn wrote: Killing off opposing views like Abd, Andrew and others does not improve the quality of the discourse. Bill Beaty told me he did not precipitously throw out Andrew. They discussed the rules, and concluded that this forum is not the best fit for Andrew at this time. - Jed

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Alain Sepeda
you have a point. a good idea for latter as someone said in a forum is: - to invite students who will play the skeptics, with stupid ideas, most stupid, some not so stupid... with naive, not far from the one of incompetent or voluntarily stupid skeptics. - to invite few stage magicians, that will

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread John Berry
If he does not know such a simple thing, I think he can be safely ignored as plainly he is significantly ignorant of basic physics. Only toroidal coils/cores have negligible external detectable field. And actually it is present but cancelled, hence only detected inductively. Very long solenoids

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
Bring on your proof that what I have pointed out is not true. Take a few moments to show how DC flowing into the control box due to its internal rectification changes the power delivered to it. You will fail miserably I assure you! You love to make unsupported statements and then fail to do

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
I suggest that you study the magnetic fields associated with solenoids Josh. Obviously you must not realize that they have an external field much like a bar magnet. This is simple for you to study and realize your mistake. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
Rob, it would be an easier task if Rossi were able to restrict the environment within which his device operates. If he were to pursue this too far, then the applications for which his ECAT can operate are quickly reduced. Now is the time for him to optimize the control system and he appears

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Yamali Yamali
a group of experts sent by a power industry Are you suggesting the power industry association had a hand in picking these experts and the group they eventually came up with included Giuseppe Levi and Hanno Essen based on their expertise?  Von: Berke Durak

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Jed Rothwell
Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: But using an electricity trick to deceive a group of experts sent by a power industry association is stupid. Well said! The whole notion is hilarious. Even if it were shown that these people are not experts, you can be sure someone at Elforsk read

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread Roarty, Francis X
Ed, I still think this strange behavior you mention is in violation of our present definition of COE.. the resonance should dampen out before doing any useful work if powered by temperature - random motion of atoms.. if you are saying the tight confinement of the cavity is

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Yamali Yamali
Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. I bet you won't find any EE with any experience in the business who would sign such a statement.

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread Edmund Storms
Fran, I don't know how to explain this process any more clearly. The resonance is not using energy or emitting energy. It simply occurs as a result of the ambient energy, i.e. temperature. All chemical structures vibrate and resonate. This behavior is not visible unless something happens

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
I do not see a direct violation of the COE with Ed's theory. It is somewhat kin to what happens when an electron and proton are far removed from each other. The electron comes into a tighter orbital as energy is released. If you make a classical model with two protons separated by an

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Terry Blanton
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Rob Dingemans manonbrid...@aim.com wrote: Of course, because a diesel engine works with GLOW PLUGS as it doesn't have any spark plugs. But these glow plugs still require electricity generated by an alternator which is connected by a V-belt to the engine. Glow

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Terry Blanton
Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered professional engineer and manage a group of mostly EE consulting engineers and I agree with Jed. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: Jed wrote: I do not think it takes long for an

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Alain Sepeda
With corp experience, I can confirm, but the question is only if the boss agree with my opinion, I can give it... and if it is unsure I protect my private parts safe. so a positive report mean that the bos was ok, that the engineer was ok or menaces to be fired. that the boss was ok mean that

Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE

2013-05-31 Thread David L Babcock
I join Terry and Jed on this. EE, 1962. I might hesitate, in view of the subversion of some holy pronouncements of the physics establishment, but sign I would. Ol' Bab On 5/31/2013 12:46 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: Well, I graduated from Georgia Tech in 1977 with an EE, am a registered

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread ChemE Stewart
Terry, I won't hold that degree against you, I have hired a bunch of GA Tech Engineers... I agree with Jed also. Sometimes I wonder if physicists ought to be required to have an undergrad degree in engineering. Lots of electromagnetic and thermodynamic stuff going on when you are dealing with

[Vo]:Partners: Zawodny or Rosssi and Boeing

2013-05-31 Thread Ron Kita
Greetings Vortex-L. A wild guess on my part: A google search of: Boeing LENR Sugar for Subsonic Ultra Green Aircraft Research shows that Boeing is commited to Green Aircraft. LENR is forseeable in Boeing s future and obvious links can be found on google. Zawodny of NASA has a LENR or Ni

RE: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Charles Francis
A weakness regarding the recent Ecat paper by Levi et al. is the apparent absence of an EE. In a future test they would ideally include a power engineer along with thermal image and data logging specialists. Charles -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com]

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:40 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Of course it is not the exact same. Positive heat feedback is what we are mainly interested in. You know that, so why bring up the obvious differences? Because it's not positive heat feedback.

Re: [Vo]:Crystals of Time

2013-05-31 Thread Ron Kita
Time Crystals search: Kozyrev ( Russian Astrophysicist) Time and Turpentine ..a Levo-Chiral natural molecule. Ron Kita, Chiralex as they say: turpentine is cheap. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com wrote: Robin, I would agree with your atoms as time

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:37 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: It is great to see that we are in such close agreement. Let's handle the issues related to positive feedback as I requested and you will improve your understanding. I thought you were keeping an open mind, not a

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:41 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Josh, please refrain from insults. Please refrain from telling me what to refrain from.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:32 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: With that in mind, please submit for discussion your main reason for discounting my explanation so that it can be properly addressed and everyone who is following this concept can draw their own conclusions. It is my

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Edmund Storms
Cude, please admit to the obvious. The LENR effect has positive feedback. Increased temperature causes increased power generation. This is an established fact. Of course, if as you believe, CF is not real, than this statement is irrelevant to you and any discussion is a waste of time.

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Yamali Yamali
For the record: Jed wrote: Whether these people are experts or not I'm sure the Association reviewed their work carefully before issuing a statement. I do not think it takes long for an electrical engineer to conclude that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests. You've read their

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
Storms, please read the exchange. I was saying the transistor was not a good analagy because it's not positive thermal feedback. The claim that cold fusion is positive thermal feedback, is the basis of my argument that it should easily self-sustain if there were a COP of 3. On Fri, May 31,

Re: [Vo]:On deception. 3rd EE

2013-05-31 Thread Kevin O'Malley
I'd like to throw in as the 4th EE, graduated from University of California Santa Barbara 1998. I would sign. But if I were there and had the wherewithal, I would have insisted on bringing in our own generator to provide the input power. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:16 AM, David L Babcock

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Even the people here such as Cude cannot come up with anything. They are scraping the bottom of the barrel when they say that three-phase electricity is difficult to measure or there might be a hidden wire under the

[Vo]: Interesting Information Contained in Output Temperature Curve Shape

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
There is a wealth of information contained within the shape of the output temperature curve associated with operation of the ECAT. My spice model also demonstrates this behavior and the testers eluded to some of the important issues. It is apparent to anyone reviewing the output temperature

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 4:29 AM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: Put yourself in the shoes of those 7 scientists who have placed their reputations on the line. I don't think it's a big risk. They can plausibly claim ignorance. In fact their ignorance is the most plausible

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.comwrote: What is the best thing about this new demonstration that it excludes definitely steam based tricks from the possible repertoire. So from the beginning it was all about the feeding extra input power via hidden

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Jed Rothwell
Yamali Yamali yamaliyam...@yahoo.de wrote: You've read their report, Terry, and you are an EE. And you would, based on what you read in the report and what Hartman and Essen said in interviews afterwards, sign a statement to the effect that there is no possibility of fraud in these tests???

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:59 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Bring on your proof that what I have pointed out is not true. Take a few moments to show how DC flowing into the control box due to its internal rectification changes the power delivered to it. You're just repeating

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
What is not positive heat feedback? Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Fri, May 31, 2013 1:40 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:40 AM, David Roberson

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: And I'm not convinced those guys stripped any wires. How does one measure voltage without stripping wires? It's far from clear it wasn't Rossi or his delegate who didn't do all the setup. Okay, so you are saying they attached the voltage probe to

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:05 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: And I'm not convinced those guys stripped any wires. How does one measure voltage without stripping wires? Watch the cheese video. The ends of the wires that the magician

Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness...

2013-05-31 Thread Bob Higgins
Dear Dr. Storms, Yours is a fascinating theory, but I don't understand the mechanism you propose of slowly reducing the Coulomb barrier by photon emissions from the nucleus. The Coulomb barrier, as I understand it, is the proton-proton electric field repulsion between the hydron elements of the

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
No problem, I will meet you here in a couple of years and we can compare notes. Sorry if it came out patronizing, perhaps I was getting a little out of hand due to being inundated with so many unsupported claims. I assure you that I can speak to any of the objections that you have provided

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
I am attempting to keep you form getting banned since I want to use you to clear up a number of issues. It is hoped that you will go back to the other skeptics and then set them straight. Dave -Original Message- From: Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com To: vortex-l

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:52 AM, Berke Durak berke.du...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: Good grief. The resistors are coils, presumably helical solenoids with the axis parallel to the reactor cylinder. The magnetic field is near

Re: [Vo]:On deception

2013-05-31 Thread Jed Rothwell
Joshua Cude joshua.c...@gmail.com wrote: Watch the cheese video. The ends of the wires that the magician wants you to measure are already exposed. Clever, huh. Too clever by half. This would not begin to fool any scientist, electrician or EE on God's Green Earth. There has not been an

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:44 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Josh, your entire theory will be shot if you acknowledge that the COP is greater than 1. Are you now ready to accept this condition? No. The only thing you seem to be able to do is miss the point. The claimed COP is

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:48 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Every one of the points you make are pure speculation. There is absolutely no evidence that Rossi is using 3 phase power to conduct any scam. Right but all the excuses for why he might need them are pure speculation,

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:52 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I suggest that you study the magnetic fields associated with solenoids Josh. Obviously you must not realize that they have an external field much like a bar magnet. This is simple for you to study and realize your

Re: [Vo]:new hypothesis to confute regarding input energy in Ecat test

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:59 AM, John Berry berry.joh...@gmail.com wrote: If he does not know such a simple thing, I think he can be safely ignored No one's holding a gun to your head.

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
This is a good start Josh. I think I can explain that to you since you seem to be a pretty sharp guy. Just keep an open mind. The ECAT operates as a device with a positive temperature coefficient with respect to heat. At low temperatures there is little if any extra heat being internally

Re: [Vo]:Ethics of the E-Cat investigation put into question

2013-05-31 Thread Joshua Cude
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:11 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Lets start with one of your choice regarding the many heat generation issues. How about how a small amount of heat can control a much larger amount? I agree this is possible under certain circumstances. But I don't

Re: [Vo]:Ekstrom critique of Levi et al.

2013-05-31 Thread David Roberson
So, do you need help with that spice model? The remainder of your discussion is nothing more than using words to avoid the issue. It would take you less time to perform the spice experiment than to write a million words that prove nothing. You wrote a large number of unsubstantiated and

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