RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[JonesBeene]

Chris Zell wrote:
Papp in particular, seemed to have something.  The Feynman incident suggests to 
me that there was something real about his claims.

It is frustrating to me why intelligent observers continue to think that the 
Feynman incident (tragedy) points to something real in alternative physics. It 
does not.
The reason it is frustrating is that once I thought this too, being a bit 
envious of Feynman and a promoter of LENR, however… on closer consideration it 
becomes clear…
If you frame this incident in objective terms, you have this:
1) A well-known fraudster with a prior history of egregious scams (see the 300 
mph submarine scam (http://hoaxes.org/comments/papp.html)
2) Claims to Invent a self-powered engine which apparently defies the laws of 
physics, yet its operational parameters change drastically dozens of times and 
are not certain even today yet…
3) Having no independent verification of gain, the inventor audaciously seeks 
more money from investors and
4) Presents the latest incarnation of the invention near Cal-Tech, in a fund 
raising gambit  - knowing that skeptics will be enticed to view it and he
5) Rigs the device to fail explosively if a certain extension cord is 
disconnected (according to Feynman’s proof) along with Papp’s pre-planned drama 
queen theatrics…
6) The bait is taken by an incredulous patsy – Feynman, whose reputation is 
temporarily blemished by this event, but scarcely tarnished in the long term, 
since 
7) No one expected a ensuing death but it served to benefit Papp beyond all 
expectation.
8)  In the end: Papp should have been charged with homicide but CalTech settled 
(for less than the cost of Tesla, and to end the negative PR)
This  appraisal makes far more sense to me than the claims of Papp supporters… 
especially since the “test of time” has been relentless since 1969, and that 
test tells the tale. No Papp engine has ever performed anywhere near OU despite 
millions of investment - and it is clear after nearly half a century that there 
is nothing to see here but the echoes of a well-crafted scam …
Well, other than a few “poppers” LOL. What an embarrassment that the best Papp 
results after all these years are no more than child’s play.
Feynman’s first principle of physics is that you must not fool yourself … 
because you are the easiest person to fool, when you desire the outcome.

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[ROGER ANDERTON]

Hi Nigel
Thanks. Physics education has been dumbed down and there now needs to be a 
revolution in Science/Physics to get things back on track. 

My latest talk at: Boscovich Unified field theory and Atomism given by Roger 
Anderton 28 aug 2017

  
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   |

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Boscovich Unified field theory and Atomism given by Roger Anderton 28 aug 2017
 Modern Physics is based on the idea of point-particles. But other than brief 
mention of point-particles in physi...  |   |

  |

  |

 
People now on board with Boscovich theory include:
Philosopher Nicholas Maxwell calling for revolution needed in Philosophy of 
Science/Physics:
from wiki: 
 Nicholas Maxwell (born 3 July 1937)[1] is a philosopher who has devoted much 
of his working life to arguing that there is an urgent need to bring about a 
revolution in academia so that it seeks and promotes wisdom and does not just 
acquire knowledge.
Ioan Has who tells me he gets Boscovich's curve as connection between 
electrical interactions and gravity:American Journal of Modern Physics2015; 
4(3): 97-108 
A Theoretical Confirmation of the Gravitation New OriginHaving a Dipolar 
Electrical Nature with Coulomb LawCorrected 
http://article.sciencepublishinggroup.com/pdf/10.11648.j.ajmp.20150403.11.pdf


Hector MuneraUnified field theory from the classical wave equation - from the 
Cartesian foundation to the new solutions of the wave equation and to 
Boscovich's force
Unified field theory Hector Munera July 2016

  
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   |

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Unified field theory Hector Munera July 2016
   |   |

  |

  |

 
regardsRoger 


 

On Friday, 29 September 2017, 22:12, Nigel Dyer  
wrote:
 

  Thank you for introducing me to Boscovich.  I had not encountered him before, 
but clearly should have. Nigel On 29/09/2017 21:23, ROGER ANDERTON wrote:
 
  from my studies of physics history, what "they" (educators of physics) do is 
dumb down the history when teach to physics students; so "they" miss out 
teaching that unified field theory presented in 1758 by Boscovich, because not 
part of the curriculum that are told to teach so miss it out; supposedly for 
the  purpose of making the subject easier to understand in the sense of being 
able to pass exams. 
  So, when you have people like Tesla working on physics pre-Quantum and 
pre-relativity revolutions, the type of physics they were working on which they 
knew about was Boscovich theory. 
  
  

 
  On Friday, 29 September 2017, 20:58, ROGER ANDERTON 
 wrote:
  
 
 missed out unified field theory presented in 1758 
  From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoiljkovic
  

|  
|  
|  
|  
  |  
  |

  |

  |
|  
||  
>From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoilj...
 "From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory": talk by retired Professor 
Dragoslav Stoiljkovi...  |  
  |

  |

  |

  
   
 
   On Friday, 29 September 2017, 20:04, Axil Axil  
wrote:
  
 
For a 100 year history of LENR including Moray and Papp, see 
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0mMpfrsf8

 On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:
 
  Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, 
Mills and Mayer. I’m not sure that Papp and Meyer were complete scams. Papp in 
particular, seemed to have  something.  The Feynman incident suggests to me 
that there was something real about his claims. Beyond that, I’ve never read a 
credible explanation for what Moray was able to demonstrate.         
               
         
  
 
 
 
 
  
 
 

   

RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Nigel—

I assumed Mayer was the correct name of an “expert”  scam  person  Ahern 
identified.

I also thought about the possibility of a “conspiracy” among the hot fusion 
family. not unlike the nuclear family in Japan responsible for the crummy 
reactor designs and large financial rewards, although maybe not as dangerous.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Nigel Dyer<mailto:l...@thedyers.org.uk>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:31 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?


Bob

I imagine that would be Stanley Meyer. or was that a comment on the misspelling?

Nigel
On 29/09/2017 17:13, bobcook39...@hotmail.com<mailto:bobcook39...@hotmail.com> 
wrote:
Brian-

I do not know of the Mayer person you mention?

I guess he could be part of the hot fusion bunch, however—lots of scam artists 
there.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Che<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:15 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?



On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:48 AM, Brian Ahern 
<ahern_br...@msn.com<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:

If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in UFO 
conspiracies as well.



Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.

What a stupid thing to assert. NOT 'axiomatic'. Actually a NON SEQUITUR.

So who's blind here, eh?





From: Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern 
<ahern_br...@msn.com<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:
>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or the 
> Men in Black will get him."


Whatever the truth of anything else being claimed here on this eList -- the 
so-called 'MiB' are very, VERY, *VERY* real. Forget Hollywood.

People who predictably scoff at the very real threat posed to regime opponents 
of all kinds, are themselves not to be taken seriously, hear..? Such as 
yourself clearly do not understand how REAL power is used in this World. 'OU' 
researchers are obviously (to non-fools) MOST definitely 'of interest' to 
Status Quo 'Concerns': who want to KEEP things that way... (Got it?) 
Regardless. Ruthlessly and MOST criminally, if necessary. VERY 'Mafia'... and 
today, **most clearly right up to the oligarchic U.S. President himself** (Gawd 
help us...). Take a GOOD look at that publicity-seeking buffoon: because 
_behind_ him are similar others who *avoid* the limelight he seeks. And for 
good reason. THEY wield this awful power over us, which frightens so many.


So we should be kinder to these people; and maybe understand the perhaps 
*justified* paranoia of those now in possession of something *possibly just 
worth stealing*... or shutting them up about.


(Sheesh. Why does this have to be spelled out to pompous fools who won't listen 
anyway...)

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Nigel Dyer]

Thank you for introducing me to Boscovich.  I had not encountered him 
before, but clearly should have.


Nigel

On 29/09/2017 21:23, ROGER ANDERTON wrote:
from my studies of physics history, what "they" (educators of physics) 
do is dumb down the history when teach to physics students; so "they" 
miss out teaching that unified field theory presented in 1758 by 
Boscovich, because not part of the curriculum that are told to teach 
so miss it out; supposedly for the purpose of making the subject 
easier to understand in the sense of being able to pass exams.


So, when you have people like Tesla working on physics pre-Quantum and 
pre-relativity revolutions, the type of physics they were working on 
which they knew about was Boscovich theory.






On Friday, 29 September 2017, 20:58, ROGER ANDERTON 
 wrote:



missed out unified field theory presented in 1758

From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav 
Stoiljkovic 








From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav
Stoilj...

"From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory": talk by retired 
Professor Dragoslav Stoiljkovi...







On Friday, 29 September 2017, 20:04, Axil Axil  wrote:


For a 100 year history of LENR including Moray and Papp, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0mMpfrsf8

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Chris Zell > wrote:


Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi,
Papp, Mills and Mayer.
I’m not sure that Papp and Meyer were complete scams. Papp in
particular, seemed to have something.  The Feynman incident
suggests to me that there was something real about his claims.
Beyond that, I’ve never read a credible explanation for what Moray
was able to demonstrate.

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[ROGER ANDERTON]

from my studies of physics history, what "they" (educators of physics) do is 
dumb down the history when teach to physics students; so "they" miss out 
teaching that unified field theory presented in 1758 by Boscovich, because not 
part of the curriculum that are told to teach so miss it out; supposedly for 
the purpose of making the subject easier to understand in the sense of being 
able to pass exams.
So, when you have people like Tesla working on physics pre-Quantum and 
pre-relativity revolutions, the type of physics they were working on which they 
knew about was Boscovich theory.


  

On Friday, 29 September 2017, 20:58, ROGER ANDERTON 
 wrote:
 

 missed out unified field theory presented in 1758
>From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoiljkovic

  
|  
|  
|  
|   ||

  |

  |
|  
||  
>From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoilj...
 "From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory": talk by retired Professor 
Dragoslav Stoiljkovi...  |   |

  |

  |

 
 

On Friday, 29 September 2017, 20:04, Axil Axil  wrote:
 

 For a 100 year history of LENR including Moray and Papp, see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0mMpfrsf8

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:

 Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.I’m not sure that Papp and Meyer were complete scams. Papp in particular, 
seemed to have something.  The Feynman incident suggests to me that there was 
something real about his claims.Beyond that, I’ve never read a credible 
explanation for what Moray was able to demonstrate.  

   



   

   

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[ROGER ANDERTON]

missed out unified field theory presented in 1758
>From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoiljkovic

  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
||  
>From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory: Prof Dragoslav Stoilj...
 "From Boscovich's theory to modern quantum theory": talk by retired Professor 
Dragoslav Stoiljkovi...  |   |

  |

  |

 
 

On Friday, 29 September 2017, 20:04, Axil Axil  wrote:
 

 For a 100 year history of LENR including Moray and Papp, see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0mMpfrsf8

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:

 Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.I’m not sure that Papp and Meyer were complete scams. Papp in particular, 
seemed to have something.  The Feynman incident suggests to me that there was 
something real about his claims.Beyond that, I’ve never read a credible 
explanation for what Moray was able to demonstrate.  

   



   

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Axil Axil]

For a 100 year history of LENR including Moray and Papp, see

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_0mMpfrsf8

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Chris Zell  wrote:

>
>
> Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills
> and Mayer.
>
> I’m not sure that Papp and Meyer were complete scams. Papp in particular,
> seemed to have something.  The Feynman incident suggests to me that there
> was something real about his claims.
>
> Beyond that, I’ve never read a credible explanation for what Moray was
> able to demonstrate.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Chris Zell]

Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.

I'm not sure that Papp and Meyer were complete scams. Papp in particular, 
seemed to have something.  The Feynman incident suggests to me that there was 
something real about his claims.

Beyond that, I've never read a credible explanation for what Moray was able to 
demonstrate.

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Nigel Dyer]

Bob

I imagine that would be Stanley Meyer. or was that a comment on the 
misspelling?


Nigel

On 29/09/2017 17:13, bobcook39...@hotmail.com wrote:


Brian-

I do not know of the Mayer person you mention?

I guess he could be part of the hot fusion bunch, however—lots of scam 
artists there.


Bob Cook

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
Windows 10


*From: *Che <mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>
*Sent: *Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:15 AM
*To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
*Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel 
form ofLENR?


On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:48 AM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com 
<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:


If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in
UFO conspiracies as well.

Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi,
Papp, Mills and Mayer.

What a stupid thing to assert. NOT 'axiomatic'. Actually a NON SEQUITUR.

So who's blind here, eh?

*From:*Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com
<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>>
*Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com <mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a
novel form ofLENR?


On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com
<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:
>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any
demos or the Men in Black will get him."

Whatever the truth of anything else being claimed here on this
eList -- the so-called 'MiB' are very, VERY, *VERY* real. Forget
Hollywood.

People who predictably scoff at the very real threat posed to
regime opponents of all kinds, are themselves not to be taken
seriously, hear..? Such as yourself clearly do not understand how
REAL power is used in this World. 'OU' researchers are obviously
(to non-fools) MOST definitely 'of interest' to Status Quo
'Concerns': who want to KEEP things that way... (Got it?)
Regardless. Ruthlessly and MOST criminally, if necessary. VERY
'Mafia'... and today, **most clearly right up to the oligarchic
U.S. President himself** (Gawd help us...). Take a GOOD look at
that publicity-seeking buffoon: because _behind_ him are similar
others who *avoid* the limelight he seeks. And for good reason.
THEY wield this awful power over us, which frightens so many.

So we should be kinder to these people; and maybe understand the
perhaps *justified* paranoia of those now in possession of
something *possibly just worth stealing*... or shutting them up about.

(Sheesh. Why does this have to be spelled out to pompous fools who
won't listen anyway...)

RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Brian-

I do not know of the Mayer person you mention?

I guess he could be part of the hot fusion bunch, however—lots of scam artists 
there.

Bob Cook

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Che<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:15 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?



On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:48 AM, Brian Ahern 
<ahern_br...@msn.com<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:

If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in UFO 
conspiracies as well.



Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.

What a stupid thing to assert. NOT 'axiomatic'. Actually a NON SEQUITUR.

So who's blind here, eh?





From: Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com<mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern 
<ahern_br...@msn.com<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:
>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or the 
> Men in Black will get him."


Whatever the truth of anything else being claimed here on this eList -- the 
so-called 'MiB' are very, VERY, *VERY* real. Forget Hollywood.

People who predictably scoff at the very real threat posed to regime opponents 
of all kinds, are themselves not to be taken seriously, hear..? Such as 
yourself clearly do not understand how REAL power is used in this World. 'OU' 
researchers are obviously (to non-fools) MOST definitely 'of interest' to 
Status Quo 'Concerns': who want to KEEP things that way... (Got it?) 
Regardless. Ruthlessly and MOST criminally, if necessary. VERY 'Mafia'... and 
today, **most clearly right up to the oligarchic U.S. President himself** (Gawd 
help us...). Take a GOOD look at that publicity-seeking buffoon: because 
_behind_ him are similar others who *avoid* the limelight he seeks. And for 
good reason. THEY wield this awful power over us, which frightens so many.


So we should be kinder to these people; and maybe understand the perhaps 
*justified* paranoia of those now in possession of something *possibly just 
worth stealing*... or shutting them up about.


(Sheesh. Why does this have to be spelled out to pompous fools who won't listen 
anyway...)

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Che]

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 6:48 AM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:

> If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in UFO
> conspiracies as well.
>
>
> Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills
> and Mayer.
>

What a stupid thing to assert. NOT 'axiomatic'. Actually a NON SEQUITUR.

So who's blind here, eh?




>
>
> --
> *From:* Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel
> form ofLENR?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or
> the Men in Black will get him."
>
>
> Whatever the truth of anything else being claimed here on this eList --
> the so-called 'MiB' are very, VERY, *VERY* real. Forget Hollywood.
>
> People who predictably scoff at the very real threat posed to regime
> opponents of all kinds, are themselves not to be taken seriously, hear..?
> Such as yourself clearly do not understand how REAL power is used in this
> World. 'OU' researchers are obviously (to non-fools) MOST definitely 'of
> interest' to Status Quo 'Concerns': who want to KEEP things that way...
> (Got it?) Regardless. Ruthlessly and MOST criminally, if necessary. VERY
> 'Mafia'... and today, **most clearly right up to the oligarchic U.S.
> President himself** (Gawd help us...). Take a GOOD look at that
> publicity-seeking buffoon: because _behind_ him are similar others who
> *avoid* the limelight he seeks. And for good reason. THEY wield this awful
> power over us, which frightens so many.
>
>
> So we should be kinder to these people; and maybe understand the perhaps
> *justified* paranoia of those now in possession of something *possibly just
> worth stealing*... or shutting them up about.
>
>
> (Sheesh. Why does this have to be spelled out to pompous fools who won't
> listen anyway...)
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Chris Zell]

The USA is the only country on earth in which political murders are always done 
by lone gunmen unrelated to any conspiracy.

If you can't accept conspiracies, then think about stigmergy and how it shapes 
energy and foreign policy.

From: Nigel Dyer [mailto:l...@thedyers.org.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:01 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?


I think the appropriate advice is almost 2000 years old.  We need to be as wise 
as serpents and as innocent as doves. Not one, or the other, but both.



Nigel

On 26/09/2017 11:48, Brian Ahern wrote:

If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in UFO 
conspiracies as well.



Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.


From: Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com><mailto:comandantegri...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern 
<ahern_br...@msn.com<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:
>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or the 
> Men in Black will get him."

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Nigel Dyer]

I think the appropriate advice is almost 2000 years old.  We need to be 
as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves. Not one, or the other, but 
both.



Nigel


On 26/09/2017 11:48, Brian Ahern wrote:


If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in UFO 
conspiracies as well.



Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, 
Mills and Mayer.





*From:* Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
*To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
*Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel 
form ofLENR?



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern <ahern_br...@msn.com 
<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:

>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos 
or the Men in Black will get him."

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Brian Ahern]

If you believe in MiB, then it is axiomatic that you believe in UFO 
conspiracies as well.


Unfortunately this leaves you blind to scams by experts Rossi, Papp, Mills and 
Mayer.



From: Che <comandantegri...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 10:17 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?



On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern 
<ahern_br...@msn.com<mailto:ahern_br...@msn.com>> wrote:
>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or the 
> Men in Black will get him."


Whatever the truth of anything else being claimed here on this eList -- the 
so-called 'MiB' are very, VERY, *VERY* real. Forget Hollywood.

People who predictably scoff at the very real threat posed to regime opponents 
of all kinds, are themselves not to be taken seriously, hear..? Such as 
yourself clearly do not understand how REAL power is used in this World. 'OU' 
researchers are obviously (to non-fools) MOST definitely 'of interest' to 
Status Quo 'Concerns': who want to KEEP things that way... (Got it?) 
Regardless. Ruthlessly and MOST criminally, if necessary. VERY 'Mafia'... and 
today, **most clearly right up to the oligarchic U.S. President himself** (Gawd 
help us...). Take a GOOD look at that publicity-seeking buffoon: because 
_behind_ him are similar others who *avoid* the limelight he seeks. And for 
good reason. THEY wield this awful power over us, which frightens so many.


So we should be kinder to these people; and maybe understand the perhaps 
*justified* paranoia of those now in possession of something *possibly just 
worth stealing*... or shutting them up about.


(Sheesh. Why does this have to be spelled out to pompous fools who won't listen 
anyway...)

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Che]

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Brian Ahern  wrote:
>
> LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or
the Men in Black will get him."


Whatever the truth of anything else being claimed here on this eList -- the
so-called 'MiB' are very, VERY, *VERY* real. Forget Hollywood.

People who predictably scoff at the very real threat posed to regime
opponents of all kinds, are themselves not to be taken seriously, hear..?
Such as yourself clearly do not understand how REAL power is used in this
World. 'OU' researchers are obviously (to non-fools) MOST definitely 'of
interest' to Status Quo 'Concerns': who want to KEEP things that way...
(Got it?) Regardless. Ruthlessly and MOST criminally, if necessary. VERY
'Mafia'... and today, **most clearly right up to the oligarchic U.S.
President himself** (Gawd help us...). Take a GOOD look at that
publicity-seeking buffoon: because _behind_ him are similar others who
*avoid* the limelight he seeks. And for good reason. THEY wield this awful
power over us, which frightens so many.


So we should be kinder to these people; and maybe understand the perhaps
*justified* paranoia of those now in possession of something *possibly just
worth stealing*... or shutting them up about.


(Sheesh. Why does this have to be spelled out to pompous fools who won't
listen anyway...)

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[mixent]

In reply to  Brian Ahern's message of Mon, 25 Sep 2017 13:50:13 +:
Hi,
>This is patently absurd!  If he had a system producing radiation from a simple 
>cavitation experiment it would be highly desirable and worthy of our interest.
[snip]
Of course it would. To start with, if one is getting sensible heat from a
reaction that is producing radiation only a few times above background, then one
is probably already doing much better than a fission reactor. Furthermore, with
study, proper choice of materials, and appropriate shielding it could prove
highly usable.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Brian Ahern]

This is patently absurd!  If he had a system producing radiation from a simple 
cavitation experiment it would be highly desirable and worthy of our interest.


DogOne and Mark LeClair have equal amounts of credibility. Neither will show a 
working device.


LeClair hides behind the conspiracy curtain. "He can't do any demos or the Men 
in Black will get him."


That is a convenient method to have no responsibility to demonstrate any of the 
claims.


I have tried multiple times to get THE BARD of BUXTON MAINE to show anything, 
to no avial.


Let this thread die a natural death.


LeClair will never show anything.



From: Nigel Dyer <l...@thedyers.org.uk>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2017 6:59 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form 
ofLENR?


Axil -- To take care is always good advice

I am familiar with Mark's work, indeed I spent a good part of a day with him 
discussing what he has done.  There are some significant differences between 
the two systems, which could well explain why the behaviour of the two is 
somewhat different.

Nigel

On 23/09/2017 00:24, Axil Axil wrote:
Nigel -- My advise (worth what you have paid for it) is to be very careful.

Mark LeClair produced a gainful cavitation system using a pump. He produces a 
ton of radiation and radiaoactive isotopes.

DogOne replicated this cavitation reactor and this is what he said:



  *

DogOne duplicated his reaction and got a solution of radioactive waste.


http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cavitation-radiation.html

PieEconomics: Cavitation Radiation 
Replication?<http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cavitation-radiation.html>
pieeconomics.blogspot.com
Dog-One wrote: ...Creating the cavitation bubbles in the pump using lift 
elevation and having control valves to force the bubbles to collapse inside the 
media chamber ...

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Nigel Dyer]

Axil -- To take care is always good advice

I am familiar with Mark's work, indeed I spent a good part of a day with 
him discussing what he has done.  There are some significant differences 
between the two systems, which could well explain why the behaviour of 
the two is somewhat different.


Nigel

On 23/09/2017 00:24, Axil Axil wrote:
Nigel -- My advise (worth what you have paid for it) is to be very 
careful.


Mark LeClair produced a gainful cavitation system using a pump. He 
produces a ton of radiation and radiaoactive isotopes.


DogOne replicated this cavitation reactor and this is what he said:


 *

DogOne duplicated his reaction and got a solution of radioactive
waste.


http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cavitation-radiation.html

Re: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Axil Axil]

Nigel -- My advise (worth what you have paid for it) is to be very careful.

Mark LeClair produced a gainful cavitation system using a pump. He produces
a ton of radiation and radiaoactive isotopes.

DogOne replicated this cavitation reactor and this is what he said:



   -

   DogOne duplicated his reaction and got a solution of radioactive waste.


   http://pieeconomics.blogspot.com/p/cavitation-radiation.html


   Quote

   Seriously guys, this is a bad idea to pursue. Does it work? I say yes.
   Should we embrace it? I say no. Your taking some electrical energy to run a
   pump and pure water and making heat and toxic water. Plus, everything that
   has come in contact with that toxic water is now contaminated. It wouldn't
   really matter to me if the COP was greater than 100, its risks outweigh its
   energy production capability. That's about it in a nutshell. We need to be
   looking somewhere else for an energy solution.

   -



On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 6:56 PM, Jones Beene  wrote:

>
>
> Nigel -- My advise (worth what you have paid for it) is to be very
> careful, even cynical - when it comes to investing in this - as there is
> ample reason to believe that this system is far from overunity.
>
>
>
> My bet is that the person who saw it running did not realize that the
> water pressure to the injectors was being provided by a separate subsystem
> – not the main engine..
>
>
>
> I would love to be wrong but it sounds like this is the same spiel that
> has been going on there for many years – but now reincorporated and
> repackaged - looking for new funding.
>
>
>
> If they had an engine which could be powered only by water, even for a few
> hours - Gates or Musk would be there with a blank check.. But Gates got
> where he is by demanding due diligence and you should too.
>
>
>
> The U of Florida may be known mostly as a football school but they do have
> a decent physics department and are only a few hours drive away.
>
>
>
> It is naïve to suggest the new company is avoiding the “establishment”
> scientists or some other lame excuse, when the real reason that no
> University expert is vouching for this is that it simply offers no gain.
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Nigel Dyer 
>
>
>
> It is indeed a successor to the MIST device.  I went out and spent a
> couple of days with Richard Aho and Bill, but no I did not see a working
> stem generator.   I am however working with someone who did on a previous
> visit.  At its heart all the data/video etc that I have seen is consistent
> with water that is at high pressure being converted to steam with no
> additional energy being input at the point when the conversion takes
> place.  Water and steam enthalpy tables show that this is not possible
> without some kind of LENR like activity providing additional energy during
> the conversion process.
>
> Very little scientific investigatory work has been done, which is
> something that I am working to sort out. I am also hoping to build on the
> possible links between it and the electrospray experiment that I am also
> associated with where energy gain was seen, something that I go into in the
> notes.
>
> Nigel
>
> On 22/09/2017 22:04, Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Hi Nigel,
>
>
>
> Very interesting indeed … unless this is the old MIST device… but it is
> doubtful that proton fusion is involved, even if there has been a
> breakthrough - especially without measureable radiation.
>
>
>
> Did you see any kind of radiation signature?
>
>
>
> The main problem with a similar older technology has been lack of
> measurement of all the subsystems. I am assuming that what you are working
> with is derived from the system being promoted by Richard Aho, once called
> MIST:
>
>
>
> http://www.rexresearch.com/ahomist/ahomist.htm
>
>
>
> My associates visited the facility in Florida several years ago, and came
> away very disappointed since they had been promised to be shown a working
> device.
>
>
>
> Despite all the talk, there was no engine then which could actually run by
> itself on water/steam. There were many, many excuses but AFAIK it looks
> good on paper but has not been shown to actually run without another system
> supplying the very high pressure required by the injectors.
>
>
>
> Perhaps there has been a bona fide breakthrough and things have changed,
> but … $64 question … Have you actually seen it running on water/steam
> without electrical input and without another system supplying the high
> pressure water? If so, for how long?
>
>
>
> Jones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Have Cavitation Energy Systems stumbled on a novel form ofLENR?

[Jones Beene]

Nigel -- My advise (worth what you have paid for it) is to be very careful, 
even cynical - when it comes to investing in this - as there is ample reason to 
believe that this system is far from overunity.

My bet is that the person who saw it running did not realize that the water 
pressure to the injectors was being provided by a separate subsystem – not the 
main engine.

I would love to be wrong but it sounds like this is the same spiel that has 
been going on there for many years – but now reincorporated and repackaged - 
looking for new funding.

If they had an engine which could be powered only by water, even for a few 
hours - Gates or Musk would be there with a blank check. But Gates got where he 
is by demanding due diligence and you should too.

The U of Florida may be known mostly as a football school but they do have a 
decent physics department and are only a few hours drive away. 

It is naïve to suggest the new company is avoiding the “establishment” 
scientists or some other lame excuse, when the real reason that no University 
expert is vouching for this is that it simply offers no gain.

Jones


From: Nigel Dyer

It is indeed a successor to the MIST device.  I went out and spent a couple of 
days with Richard Aho and Bill, but no I did not see a working stem generator.  
 I am however working with someone who did on a previous visit.  At its heart 
all the data/video etc that I have seen is consistent with water that is at 
high pressure being converted to steam with no additional energy being input at 
the point when the conversion takes place.  Water and steam enthalpy tables 
show that this is not possible without some kind of LENR like activity 
providing additional energy during the conversion process.
Very little scientific investigatory work has been done, which is something 
that I am working to sort out. I am also hoping to build on the possible links 
between it and the electrospray experiment that I am also associated with where 
energy gain was seen, something that I go into in the notes. 
Nigel
On 22/09/2017 22:04, Jones Beene wrote:

Hi Nigel,
 
Very interesting indeed … unless this is the old MIST device… but it is 
doubtful that proton fusion is involved, even if there has been a breakthrough 
- especially without measureable radiation.
 
Did you see any kind of radiation signature?
 
The main problem with a similar older technology has been lack of measurement 
of all the subsystems. I am assuming that what you are working with is derived 
from the system being promoted by Richard Aho, once called MIST:
 
http://www.rexresearch.com/ahomist/ahomist.htm
 
My associates visited the facility in Florida several years ago, and came away 
very disappointed since they had been promised to be shown a working device. 
 
Despite all the talk, there was no engine then which could actually run by 
itself on water/steam. There were many, many excuses but AFAIK it looks good on 
paper but has not been shown to actually run without another system supplying 
the very high pressure required by the injectors.
 
Perhaps there has been a bona fide breakthrough and things have changed, but … 
$64 question … Have you actually seen it running on water/steam without 
electrical input and without another system supplying the high pressure water? 
If so, for how long?
 
Jones