Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sun, 6 Feb 2011 02:16:19 -0500: Hi, [snip] they could crash spectacularly or that in hot weather with low air pressure they could not fly. [snip] If you look at a barometer you will see that hot weather almost invariably comes with high (not low) air pressure. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:34 AM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: If you look at a barometer you will see that hot weather almost invariably comes with high (not low) air pressure. It is just the opposite here in the far north. High pressure areas produce clear skies here, but the high air pressure is due to the cold of the high pressure area, which often originates in the north over land or ice. The clear skies don't provide enough solar energy to make things hot and therefore humid overcast and cool, except in summer when the skies are clear in the morning during high pressures but cumulus clouds and cooling showers can form in the late afternoon. Low pressure often involves being in the center of humid low pressure cyclonic winds, often originating over the oceans, and which bring warming weather, in the winter warming back up to near freezing, bringing overcast, clouds and snow. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
RE: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
From Jed: ... I think that he [Levi] and other observers who have seen the test are convinced, but you have to calibrate his way of talking. Academic scientists tend to hedge everything they say so much it sometimes sounds as if they lack confidence. It is a style of speaking. You don't say I am sure of X. You put it in the passive voice and wrap it in semantic cotton wool: strong indications with reliable instrumentation that give a reliable approximation within the known error bounds that X is highly probable . . . Last week 31 I touched on some of these linguistic issues out in a local Yahoo Science Fiction literary group where I'm an active participant. Many who belong to this yahoo group tend to be very skeptical of cold fusion claims. As such it's occasionally challenging for me to get the relevant points across before some self-appointed skeptic decides it's time to set me straight concerning the truth about cold fusion. Here's a portion of what I posted: Excerpt: Before concluding my on-going report on the Rossi/Hyde saga, I feel compelled to add a final point in regards to the scientific lingo often employed by scientists and professors, including those who independently analyzed Focardi Rossi's prototype. Reports of these kinds tend to be encapsulated in both turgid and emotionally unsatisfying ways, as read by Mr. Joe Six-Pack. Linguistic protocols and formulaic rituals must be observed, scrupulously. And always, always, ALWAYS, at the end of the report, clearly state that more thorough testing is warranted. In regards to the Focardi-Rossi demonstration, one is not likely to read a scientific report couched in Six-Pack language such as: HOLY MERDA! Rossi's four foot tin foiled-wrapped stogie really smokes! It was like watching picante bologna strapped on top of a solid fuel booster! What a blast! Give'em hell, Rossi! One is more likely to read carefully parsed scientific-jargon-speak coached in phrases such as the following, as written by David J Nagel, who is a prominent cold fusion researcher residing out of George Washington University: Given the measured input and output temperatures, that flow rate, and a measurement that the steam was dry, it is easy to compute that the device delivered over 10kW of thermal energy to the water. The data indicate power and energy gains of more than 10. That amplification is what the International Thermonuclear Experimental reactor (ITER) seeks to achieve in about a decade for well over $10B. See: http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/NagelDJchecklistf.pdf Give'em hell, Rossi! I divided my yahoo essay into four separate posts. I think (I hope) the contents are still reasonably accurate, considering the timeframe in which it was written . Dr Rossi and Mr. Hyde, PART 1 of 4 - Warp 7 NOW, Scottie! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MadSF/message/5396 Dr Rossi and Mr. Hyde, PART 2 of 4 - Say What? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MadSF/message/5397 Dr Rossi and Mr. Hyde, PART 3 of 4 - Mr. Hyde, I presume http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MadSF/message/5398 Dr Rossi and Mr. Hyde, PART 4 of 4 - Holey Bologna, Batman! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MadSF/message/5399 So far, no one has cared to respond. That's a tad unusual. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Anybody get Greek TV on their cable? Ecat was covered on national TV in Greece today: http://talefta.blogspot.com/2011_02_01_archive.html T
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: So, stsalikoglou is clearly associated with defkalion-energy.com (which is presumably where the Defkalion Energy confusion came from, please note) . . . I think so. From what Rossi told me, I gather he did not think the exact name mattered. He said -- in effect -- there are many Greek companies named Defkalion this or that, and so what? He did not realize that people were trying to verify his claims. In retrospect I don't think he was trying to stop people from doing that, or trying to cover up anything. He seemed genuinely surprised to hear that reporters were calling around contacting Defkalion Energy. He apologized for giving us the wrong information. Mixing up the name of company that plays a key role in your affairs and not correcting the problem for a week while people ask questions about it seems like odd behavior to me. Most people would consider it suspicious. Many readers here were suspicious, and probably still are. I don't blame you! If I did something like this, you might worry that I was suffering from Alzheimer's disease or a tumor. (Seriously) But many people have told me that Rossi lives in his own world, with his own standards, and he does things that seem outlandish by normal standards. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: He [Levi] emphasizes that the experiment must be carefully prepared with a very strict protocol to avoid any doubt. And implies that there needs to be a further replication. If he's so convinced, why the need for further testing? There is always a need for further testing. Seriously. Getting back to my favorite example, the Wrights proved they could stagger off the ground and barely fly in a semi-controlled fashion in December 1903. In 1904 they proved they could do it again sometimes, but often they proved only that they could crash spectacularly or that in hot weather with low air pressure they could not fly. It took more tests to prove to non-expert observers that the first flight was not a fluke or a carnival stunt. (The Wrights themselves were expert enough to judge the first 4 flight tests on Dec. 17 as complete success, but they were the only experts in the world on that day.) In the case of Rossi, many loopy skeptical objections have been raised, but one or two plausible ideas that might explain away the results have been proposed. It would be good to disprove these objections by doing a long run. We are not accusing Rossi of being dishonest by asking for something like a 10-hour run. That is just dotting the i and crossing the t. Again, this sounds like future tense -- Levi thinks this still needs to be verified. At least, that's how I read this. Well . . . Maybe he is just talking the way a careful academic scientist talks. Or maybe he thinks, as I do, that this is such an astounding breakthrough it calls for additional verification. It does NOT call for extraordinary proof as skeptics love to say (quote the Cosmos TV series). More ordinary proof is fine. Rossi told me that Levi et al. are doing additional tests. That's good. They may not report on them for some time. I see no need to rush. No, not in the least. His statements are thoroughly hedged. He's obviously not accusing Rossi of anything, but he sure doesn't sound totally convinced to me. I think that he and other observers who have seen the test are convinced, but you have to calibrate his way of talking. Academic scientists tend to hedge everything they say so much it sometimes sounds as if they lack confidence. It is a style of speaking. You don't say I am sure of X. You put it in the passive voice and wrap it in semantic cotton wool: strong indications with reliable instrumentation that give a reliable approximation within the known error bounds that X is highly probable . . . - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Anyway, I would summarize the situation as doubts melting away- the process is real and important. and on the way to become a technology. It has NO theory yet, OK - but which variant of cold fusion has a first rate (i.e. one that predicts what to do)- usable theory? Obviously development is always risky.Cousin Jed could tell more about the risks in early aviation- for example. On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: He [Levi] emphasizes that the experiment must be carefully prepared with a very strict protocol to avoid any doubt. And implies that there needs to be a further replication. If he's so convinced, why the need for further testing? There is always a need for further testing. Seriously. Getting back to my favorite example, the Wrights proved they could stagger off the ground and barely fly in a semi-controlled fashion in December 1903. In 1904 they proved they could do it again sometimes, but often they proved only that they could crash spectacularly or that in hot weather with low air pressure they could not fly. It took more tests to prove to non-expert observers that the first flight was not a fluke or a carnival stunt. (The Wrights themselves were expert enough to judge the first 4 flight tests on Dec. 17 as complete success, but they were the only experts in the world on that day.) In the case of Rossi, many loopy skeptical objections have been raised, but one or two plausible ideas that might explain away the results have been proposed. It would be good to disprove these objections by doing a long run. We are not accusing Rossi of being dishonest by asking for something like a 10-hour run. That is just dotting the i and crossing the t. Again, this sounds like future tense -- Levi thinks this still needs to be verified. At least, that's how I read this. Well . . . Maybe he is just talking the way a careful academic scientist talks. Or maybe he thinks, as I do, that this is such an astounding breakthrough it calls for additional verification. It does NOT call for extraordinary proof as skeptics love to say (quote the Cosmos TV series). More ordinary proof is fine. Rossi told me that Levi et al. are doing additional tests. That's good. They may not report on them for some time. I see no need to rush. No, not in the least. His statements are thoroughly hedged. He's obviously not accusing Rossi of anything, but he sure doesn't sound totally convinced to me. I think that he and other observers who have seen the test are convinced, but you have to calibrate his way of talking. Academic scientists tend to hedge everything they say so much it sometimes sounds as if they lack confidence. It is a style of speaking. You don't say I am sure of X. You put it in the passive voice and wrap it in semantic cotton wool: strong indications with reliable instrumentation that give a reliable approximation within the known error bounds that X is highly probable . . . - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Please keep in mind that the following quotes have been extracted from individuals whose opinions may have changed (or moderated) in subtle ways later on in the on-going thread. From Mr. Lawrence: I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that Levi doesn't believe it's for real, no matter what he says in interviews. Rothwell responds: Hmmm . . . That is not my impression, but you could be right. Villa expresses many doubts. Perhaps Levi shares them with him. Keep in mind, in the NyTeknic article out at: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3083834.ece Levi is quoted as allegedly saying the following 2/3 of the way down: ... He [Levi] emphasizes that the experiment must be carefully prepared with a very strict protocol to avoid any doubt. It includes measuring any amount of copper produced – a sign of fusion between nickel and hydrogen. “I know that Focardi (professor emeritus and Rossi’s scientific advisor) and Rossi have seen copper. I have known Focardi for years and have worked with him (...) and do not doubt his ability or his professionalism – nor Rossi’s, as I’ve had the opportunity to meet him and he seems very serious. But to verify this, we need to use very stringent methods so that no one will have any doubt.” “I would like to organize it calmly. Next week engineer Rossi will be here and then we discuss the set up. He said he’s willing to repeat the experiment. Again, please note commentary directly attributed to Levi: I have known Focardi for years and have worked with him (...) and do not doubt his ability or his professionalism – nor Rossi’s, as I’ve had the opportunity to meet him and he seems very serious. Seems to me that speculation suggesting that Levi (inwardly) suspects that Rossi's Focardi's prototype isn't for real would, by default, leave no other alternative than to imply that Levi, himself, is nothing more than a big fat liar. ...just another sinister cog in the disinformation wheel - deliberately leading observers astray. Granted, we can continue speculating all we wish on matters of this nature. Nevertheless, all I can say is that at present such speculation isn't the impression the article gives me. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Nope, wrong first name. update on Defkalion Green Technologies I am uploading this since I see more traffic towards this blog So, it's not Defkalion energy. It's Defkalion green Technologies. Or isn't it? I don't know what to make of it. I got a phone call --from a cell phone-- by a person claiming to be Symeon Tsalikoglou calling on behalf of Defkalion Green Technologies. I have no reason to doubt him at this point. He repeated that they are not willing to share any contact details of their company and hinted that there will be an announcement on national TV tomorrow related to the Rossi reactor. Tomorrow is saturday, february the 5th. I will be watching the news. http://talefta.blogspot.com/2011_02_01_archive.html Anybody get Greek TV on their cable? T On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:01 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: ? http://gr.linkedin.com/in/stavrostsalikoglou
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On 02/04/2011 10:01 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: Please keep in mind that the following quotes have been extracted from individuals whose opinions may have changed (or moderated) in subtle ways later on in the on-going thread. ... [NYT:] He [Levi] emphasizes that the experiment must be carefully prepared with a very strict protocol to avoid any doubt. And implies that there needs to be a further replication. If he's so convinced, why the need for further testing? It includes measuring any amount of copper produced – a sign of fusion between nickel and hydrogen. Right. Someone besides Rossi needs to measure it -- that's how I read this. “I know that Focardi (professor emeritus and Rossi’s scientific advisor) and Rossi have seen copper. I have known Focardi for years and have worked with him (...) He has known Focardi for years, and trusts him. Clearly. And Focardi and Rossi have seen copper -- but it's only Rossi who goes inside the gadget, so, as Levi must realize, this really means Rossi has seen copper, and Rossi could be putting one over on Focardi here. and do not doubt his ability or his professionalism – nor Rossi’s, as I’ve had the opportunity to meet him and he seems very serious. But to verify this, we need to use very stringent methods so that no one will have any doubt.” Again, this sounds like future tense -- Levi thinks this still needs to be verified. At least, that's how I read this. “I would like to organize it calmly. Next week engineer Rossi will be here and then we discuss the set up. He said he’s willing to repeat the experiment. Again, Levi doesn't seem convinced -- he wants more testing. Again, please note commentary directly attributed to Levi: I have known Focardi for years and have worked with him (...) Yes, he trusts Focardi. But Focardi isn't privy to what's actually inside the reactor, as Levi knows perfectly well. and do not doubt his ability or his professionalism – nor Rossi’s, as I’ve had the opportunity to meet him and he seems very serious. He says Rossi seems very serious. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement. Seems to me that speculation suggesting that Levi (inwardly) suspects that Rossi's Focardi's prototype isn't for real would, by default, leave no other alternative than to imply that Levi, himself, is nothing more than a big fat liar. No, not in the least. His statements are thoroughly hedged. He's obviously not accusing Rossi of anything, but he sure doesn't sound totally convinced to me. Again, this thing is an incredible breakthrough, and Levi (and everybody else involved) knows it. But he sure doesn't sound to me like somebody who has Seen The Millennium Arrive.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Much of the on-going speculation, of which I, too, am guilty of having propagated, reminds me of a poignant and all-too-brief scene I recall from the recent apocalyptic film titled, 2012, - which by the way was a really awful film. 100% special effects - 0% plot. Out in the wild snow-capped mountains of Tibet we see two monks who are conversing with each other, a young student, and a wise old master. The young student is in an agitated state. The student is trying to talk his way through a multitude of personal misgivings pertaining to a spate of global warning signs for which he recently has become aware of. It's all in the news, he tells his master! And what are all these government officials doing near our village - digging and excavating vast tunnels within the mountain. What is happening to the world! What can we do! This is terrible! The wise old monk gazes at his troubled student. The master picks up a tea kettle and proceeds to pour tea into his student's empty cup. He pours, and continues to pour while the student watches on. Inevitably, the tea begins to flow over the brim of the student's cup. The student exclaims to his master to stop pouring more tea. Can't the old master see that his cup is overflowing? That was precisely the point the master was trying to make to his young agitated student. The student's incessant agitation, all that speculation about things he had no control over was nothing more than tea overflowing over the top of his cup. * * * * I truly grieved when in the movie the special effects artist depicted a massive tidal wave rushing over the tops of the Himalayan mountains - fast approaching the wise old monk who sat calmly in the center of his hut, a hut that had been built on top of a mountain. When the old master spotted the first wave he got up and began ringing a warning bell. All he could do was witness the spectacle heading straight for him, as if he was nothing more than a fly facing a fly swatter. Damn! If anyone should have survived the ensuing global disaster, it should have been that wise old monk. BTW, the young student monk DID survive the calamity, minus one of his extremities, but hopefully wiser from the experience. Bah! Hollywood! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Tibetan monks always survivein another body. T
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Terry e.a., The whois information for the domain defkalion-energy.com lists a different email address as you may have noticed. ANDREAS MEINTANIS (dimitrios.meida...@gmail.com) i.s.o. **stsalikog...@gmail.com* mailto:stsalikog...@gmail.com* Did anyone already send an email to this email address of Andreas? B.t.w. for official business I don't like any gmail, hotmail, etc. email address; this doesn't look professional at all to me (to use it for email on a mailing list to filter spam etc. is a total different ballgame ;-) I think they should use something like nomen-nes...@defkalion-energy.com and not i...@defkalion-energy.com or postma...@defkalion-energy.com to be contacted. MoB On 4-2-2011 2:11, Terry Blanton wrote: I did a research on Defkalion energy. It seems that the company is located in number 3, Xenofondos street, in Halandri, Athens. A few days ago, I emailed stsalikog...@gmail.com Defkalion Energy
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On 02/04/2011 05:46 PM, Man on Bridges wrote: Terry e.a., The whois information for the domain defkalion-energy.com lists a different email address as you may have noticed. ANDREAS MEINTANIS (dimitrios.meida...@gmail.com) i.s.o. **stsalikog...@gmail.com* mailto:stsalikog...@gmail.com* Which is kind of irrelevent, since there's a web page at defkalion-energy.com http://defkalion-energy.com, and the web page lists stsalikoglou's email address. So, stsalikoglou is clearly associated with defkalion-energy.com (which is presumably where the Defkalion Energy confusion came from, please note), and the web page also says, right there in big green letters, that it's Defkalion Green Technologies. Ergo, we can be reasonably sure stsalikoglou and Andreas Meintanis are associates of one sort or another, and both are associated with Defkalion Green Technologies. Whether Defkalion consists of anything more than a single Under Construction web page, OTOH, is a different question.
[Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Rossi claims that he is being funded by the Defkalion Energy of Athens, Greece. On his blog, someone with the e-mail address stsalikog...@gmail.com says he is the contact at Defkalion Energy. He says his devices are being manufactured by the Leonardo Company of Florida. I did some elementary background checks with the help of a friend who speaks Greek. So far I have discovered: 1. Defkalion Energy of Athens, Greece is a real registered company, but the people there say they have never heard of Rossi, his device or stsalikoglou. They have never heard of Bologna U. 2. The person who answers messages to stsalikoglou responds in English and gives no sign of understanding Greek. 3. The Leonardo Company of Florida is defunct. See: http://www.corporationwiki.com/florida/fort-myers/leonardo-corporation-6341154.aspx It is registered at 49757 Mars St Fort Myers, FL 33905. Google street view shows only small houses and mobile homes (beat up old trailers) there. There is no way anyone could be manufacturing 100 devices at this location, and I doubt anyone with the money to do this would live there. Rossi also claims a degree from a non-existent university, and a technical adviser Prof. George Kelly, University of New Hampshire – USA, who does not exist. This is appalling. If Rossi deliberately set out to give the impression he is a fraud and a con man, he could not do a better job. If he is trying to fool people, he is using methods that cannot possibly work in the Internet era. I do not know what to think Maybe he is just making a spectacle of himself, or trying to throw people off his trail. I was planning to hold off reporting this. I have asked some other people to confirm it. However, I just discovered the page about the Leonardo Company. Ironically, I found it because there is a link from that page to LENR-CANR.org, because one of our reports lists the Leonardo Company. The street view was the last straw. I have revisited the notion that his demonstration may be fake. Several skeptics offered reasons why that might be the case. Most reasons can be dismissed out of hand, for example, the notions that the flow rate is changed, or there are hidden wires, or hidden chemical fuel. However Flavio Tarallo has proposed an idea that is at least plausible, although highly unlikely in my opinion. He believes the flow of water might be diverted inside the machine, such that one tube leads to the thermocouple and RH meter, and another bypasses them. The flow of water is then joined and it empties out of the end. Let me quote his message describing this: The temperature and 'air quality' measurements were taken INSIDE the reactor, (in holes prepared by Rossi) instead at its final output. Nobody could see inside the reactor so there are a lot of possibility. One possibility I thought is that an amount of the water flow have been diverted. One part of the water flow actually goes inside the hot core, heats and became vapour and another part simply bypass everything in another internal pipe and go directly to the output where it is re-mixed with the first part. Nobody measured the output steam flow or its speed (should be around 74 m/s for 5 g/s flow!!!) The electric power input was sufficient to vaporize the fraction of the water flow that goes into the core and that is measured. With a divertor commanded by a simply thermo-sensor, all can you see from outside is a behaviour like a start of internal energy generation insted it's only the start of a flow fractioning. All this consideration is independent from the honesty of Rossi, there is this possibility so it has to be denied by a new measure (possibly without steam production). I do not know if the holes were prepared by Rossi. Anyway, this method would call for a complex set of hidden remote controls, to accommodate observations such as the one that the temperature was higher when input power was reduced from 1000 W to 400 W. I do not think we should judge the results of a test based on the personal integrity of the person doing the experiment, especially when the people actually conducting the test are legitimate university professors using their own instruments. But when the person making the claim goes to such extremes as this -- listing non-existent universities and referring inquiries to a company that has never heard of him, for crying out loud! -- while assuming other people will not notice these things, it is impossible not to entertain profound uneasiness about the claims. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
I have known about these problems for some time. Some people investigating this situation urged me to keep quiet a little longer while they investigated. I am not Steve Krivit, and I have never felt it is my role to investigate the private lives or credibility of cold fusion researchers. I never discuss people's personal lives and I have no interest in gossip or rumors. I do not plan to put this information on LENR-CANR.org, unless it is independently confirmed and reported in the mass media. On the other hand, I informed everyone I know in the mass media and at places like PESN.com. I wrote to the people who urged me to withhold this another week: I will not be accused of covering up appalling information that calls this whole thing into question. . . . [Rossi] may have discovered a real phenomenon. History is full of genius inventors who were unreliable, unstable or dishonest people. Or -- who knows -- he might have taken the discovery from someone else without acknowledging it, the way Griggs did. Whatever he has, we should not believe it until more and better independent tests can be done. Flavio Tarallo just wrote to me: I think that we cannot say that Rossi is a cheater, because we don't have the evidences, but there is too much strange things around him and at least we have to pretend a new test with a well defined, shared and approved method and protocol of measurements. I agree with that 100%. Some people have also suggested I should not say this because I might upset or offend Rossi. Some have suggested that if his claim is real, he may soon be the most powerful person on earth. Indeed, he may soon be Bill Gates and Andrew Carnegie rolled together. However, I am never inclined to curry favor with the rich and powerful, and I am never furtive. I do not mind when people refuse to give me information, but I resent it when they lie to me. So, to ensure that everyone knows where I stand, I uploaded a copy of that Vortex message to Rossi's blog. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
From: S. Krivit's NET Installment #31 http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/36/3616ideologies.shtml 16. Cold Fusion Versus LENR: Competing Ideologies Paragraph excerpt: In January 2010, Melich and his second wife, Marianne Macy, who writes for Infinite Energy magazine, began producing documents that appear to be promoting the commercial value of the Andrea Rossi (Italy) LENR device demonstrated in Italy earlier this month. According to ICCF-16 conference chairman Mahadeva Srinivasan, Melich is slated to be an unofficial spokesman for a newly added discussion of the Rossi LENR device at the ICCF-16 conference next week. Rossi told New Energy Times that Melich will not be speaking on his behalf. Is it true that ICCF-16 added a program on recent events concerning Rossi and Focardi? If so, who will participate? Of particular interest would be who will speak on Rossi Focardi's behalf - particularly on Rossi's behalf. If it's not Rossi himself, and presumably that will be the case, heaven help whoever he/she might be. Some very pointed questions need to be asked, and rightly so. Ideally, it remains our hope that personality flaws won't adversely influence the alleged authenticity of extraordinary scientific evidence collected by said personality. And yet, here we are, seemingly unable to avoid participating in the very mess we detest. I fear it may soon get much worse. Revelations of this nature will make it easy for skeptics and debunkers to tear Rossi, the individual, apart. Will his work survive the personality mess that is likely to come? These kinds of revelations concern me deeply. How could it not cause one, myself included, to doubt the authenticity of Rossi Focardi's claims. In all honesty, I don't know what to believe. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On 02/03/2011 03:04 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: I do not think we should judge the results of a test based on the personal integrity of the person doing the experiment, especially when the people actually conducting the test are legitimate university professors using their own instruments. But when the person making the claim goes to such extremes as this -- listing non-existent universities and referring inquiries to a company that has never heard of him, for crying out loud! -- while assuming other people will not notice these things, it is impossible not to entertain profound uneasiness about the claims. Understated, Jed. I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that Levi doesn't believe it's for real, no matter what he says in interviews. Levi's report is a travesty, which could have been bettered by any 12th grade chemistry student. I cannot believe that that was a report prepared by someone who thinks he has just witnessed the biggest breakthrough in the last three decades. (I don't mean his /measurements/ were poor; I mean the /report/ was D- material, totally slipshod, just thrown together.) As I said in one of my responses to this list, after reading Levi's report, that's what it looks to me like it is. In short, it's a disaster on wheels for the field of cold fusion I had been starting to think I believed this, until I read Levi's report. Even if he'd only written it up for a few friends (or his Facebook page), if he thought this was for real, I have to believe he'd have done a more thorough job of reporting on it. (Just my opinion, of course ... keep in mind I know a /whole/ lot *less* about this than a lot of other people, including Jed, so take my opinions with a lot of salt. The smart money will listen to the experts, and not to me!)
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On 02/03/2011 03:39 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: History is full of genius inventors who were unreliable, unstable or dishonest people. Can you name *one* person who made what turned out to be a breakthrough in physics, and who was known to be unreliable and dishonest, /and/ who had *no formal training* in the field? I can't. Some people have also suggested I should not say this because I might upset or offend Rossi. Who cares? He set himself up for a lot worse than being offended or upset by something like this. The lies all come from Rossi, for crying out loud -- how can /anyone/ worry about offending the liar by pointing them out?
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: Ideally, it remains our hope that personality flaws won't adversely influence the alleged authenticity of extraordinary scientific evidence collected by said personality. And yet, here we are, seemingly unable to avoid participating in the very mess we detest. Amen to that. And I say it is Rossi's fault. He is either inadvertently spreading confusion and misinformation, or he is deliberately deceiving people. He responded offline to my posting on his blog. Why the heck he did not make his response public I cannot say, but I shall publish it here, along with my response. - Jed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dear Mr Jed Rothwell, I am answering to your email of today. 1- Leonardo Corp exists and it is sound. It is clear that you have found another leonardo corp ( there are many Leonardos). My one is sound, believe me. i...@leonardocorp.com 2. Same for Defkalion: you found another one. Also Defkalion is a common name in Greece. 3. About your suppositions, I will make no more tests on modulbecause it is clear that people like you will also find something wrong. The answers will arrive from our 1 MW plant which will start in October. At that point all the discussions will be over, in front of a reactor working 24 hours per day, at a power of 1 MW, in the factory of a Customer. You just talk too much, I prefer to make facts. Wait until october, you will have surprises. Regards, Andrea Rossi - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [Sent to info and uploaded to blog] You completely misunderstand my comments. I have NEVER doubted the results of the Levi test. I have pointed out that others including Prof. Villa still have questions. You wrote: 1- Leonardo Corp exists and it is sound. It is clear that you have found another leonardo corp ( there are many Leonardos). My one is sound, believe me. i...@leonardocorp.com 2. Same for Defkalion: you found another one. Also Defkalion is a common name in Greece. Okay. Why did you repeatedly refer to it as Defkalion Energy when the name is Defkalion Green Technologies? Why do you claim you have a degree from a non-existent university? Why don't you post the name of the company in Florida? You cannot have a factory there without a proper registration and telephone number. You should give the name, address and telephone number. You are saying things and doing things that make you look bad. You are inviting attacks by skeptics. You should publish COMPLETE and ACCURATE information, instead of mixing up the names of your companies. Journalists and newspaper reporters worldwide are trying to get accurate facts about you, but you have spread so much confusion they think you are a fake. I have been trying to reassure them for months that your claims have merit. You are making it impossible for me and your other supporters. You just talk too much, I prefer to make facts. YOU DO NOT TALK ENOUGH! Make yourself clear. Publish accurate information. Do not confuse the name of your company with some other company. Be careful!!! - Jed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Another message I wrote to people trying to make sense of this mess: Brian Ahern informed me that the Leonardo Technologies that Rossi formed is in New Hampshire, not Florida, although Rossi has moved it and the production line to Florida. Based on my experience in business, I doubt that. You are not allowed to open a production line in a state without registering and licensing a corporation. However, if Ahern gives me additional information I will report it, and retract my previous assertion. Let me say, however, that Rossi has been giving me and others one story after another for a year now, with no supporting evidence, and I am fed up with it. Consider for a moment how ridiculously easy it would be for him to provide confirmation for these claims. For example, he said there was a reactor in a factory in Italy operating continuously for six months. He claims hundreds of units are being fabricated. Okay, why not give us things like: * The street address of these factories and photos of the equipment. * Brief technical reports or affidavits from qualified experts (even anonymous ones). No engineer or scientist on earth would fail to take notice of a device that works for months. No one would ignore it. When I investigated the Griggs gadget, Hydrodynamics gave me a mountain of supporting evidence for their claims. They gave me documents and testimonials from customers, from qualified engineers, the County Property Manager, the Fire Department manager, the Dean of Mech. Engineering at Georgia Tech. I ran my own tests, and I observed other tests too, and that is the basis of the claim, but there was plenty of evidence that qualified experts had independently verified the claims. Rossi has been doing this for at least a year and probably much longer. Is Levi et al. the first independent test? Why didn't
RE: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
http://leonardocorp1996.com/index_eng.htm Interesting ... vegetable power
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Is this the correct Leonardo Corp? http://leonardocorp1996.com/ harry
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
from Rossi's blog http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360#comments DEFKALION Energy Group February 3rd, 2011 at 6:28 AM On behalf of Defkalion, we wοuld like to clarify the following: The full name of Defkalion comapny is: Defkalion Green Technologies S.A. registered in Athens Greece. A photovoltaic comapny by the name Defkalion has no connection with us nor do they know anything on this technology. For inquiries please forward your messages only to stsalikog...@gmail.com or to i...@defkalion-energy.com
RE: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
At the EON plant in Italy, where one test was said to take place, there are at least a dozen cars in the lot - so it is a real factory Google maps: EON Bondeno Ferrara, Italy http://leonardocorp1996.com/index_eng.htm Interesting ... vegetable powered GENSET Partnered with EON of Italy. Now we are getting somewhere without smoke and mirrors
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On 02/03/2011 05:13 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: Ideally, it remains our hope that personality flaws won't adversely influence the alleged authenticity of extraordinary scientific evidence collected by said "personality". And yet, here we are, seemingly unable to avoid participating in the very mess we detest. Amen to that. And I say it is Rossi's fault. He is either inadvertently spreading confusion and misinformation, or he is deliberately deceiving people. He responded offline to my posting on his blog. Why the heck he did not make his response public I cannot say, but I shall publish it here, along with my response. Oh my we've seen that behavior before. [Rossi wrote:] 3. About your [Jed's] suppositions, I will make no more tests on modulbecause it is clear that people like you will also find something wrong. You are asking legitimate questions and Rossi is responding with anger and accusations. Where have we seen this sort of behavior before? The fact that you've consistently been a supporter makes no difference -- you ask sensitive questions, and he lashes out. "people like you" -- yeah, right. [Rossi wrote:] You just talk too much, I prefer to make facts. Rossi sez: Don't ask questions. Where have we seen this sort of behavior before? [Rossi wrote:] 1- Leonardo Corp exists and it is sound. It is clear that you have found another leonardo corp ( there are many Leonardos). My one is sound, believe me. i...@leonardocorp.com Yeah, sound as a bell. An alarm bell, specifically. "No such domain Your request for http://leonardocorp.com/ could not be fulfilled, because the domain name leonardocorp.com could not be resolved." So whois leonardocorp, anyway? It seems funny, if it's Rossi's company, in New Hampshire, that the domain is registered to a Ronald Leonardo in Connecticut: Domain Name.. leonardocorp.com Creation Date 2005-04-24 Registration Date 2005-04-24 Expiry Date.. 2011-04-24 Organisation Name Ronald Leonardo Organisation Address. 42 Country Club Drive Organisation Address. Organisation Address. Hamden Organisation Address. 06514 Organisation Address. CT Organisation Address. UNITED STATES Admin Name... Ronald Leonardo Admin Address 42 Country Club Drive Admin Address Admin Address Hamden Admin Address 06514 Admin Address CT Admin Address UNITED STATES Admin Email.. rg...@yahoo.com Admin Phone.. +1.2032881699 Admin Fax Tech Name YahooDomains TechContact Tech Address. 701 First Ave. Tech Address. Tech Address. Sunnyvale Tech Address. 94089 Tech Address. CA Tech Address. UNITED STATES Tech Email... domain.t...@yahoo-inc.com Tech Phone... +1.4089162124 Tech Fax. Name Server.. ns.iwebhosting.com Name Server.. ns2.iwebhosting.com Anybody feel like emailing Ronald at rg...@yahoo.com and asking him about Rossi? [Rossi wrote:] 2. Same for Defkalion: you found another one. Also Defkalion is a common name in Greece. Okay. Why did you repeatedly refer to it as "Defkalion Energy" when the name is "Defkalion Green Technologies"? And why does Google say "No results found for "defkalion green technologies"." ? Why do you claim you have a degree from a non-existent university? Why don't you post the name of the company in Florida? Maybe because there isn't one? But that's just a guess. Let me say, however, that Rossi has been giving me and others one story after another for a year now, with no supporting evidence, and I am fed up with it. Consider for a moment how ridiculously easy it would be for him to provide confirmation for these claims. For example, he said there was a reactor in a factory in Italy operating continuously for six months. He claims hundreds of units are being fabricated. Okay, why not give us things like: * The street address of these factories and photos of the equipment. Because it doesn't exist. This one has smelled bad from the start -- if he's had this thing running so long, so well, why is it big news that he can run it for 1/2 hour in a public demo? (And didn't I hear a claim of two years at one point?) The mysterious factory powered by the first law PMM is old news. We've heard it before. The trouble is they never turn out to exist. The only thing new here was that Rossi's claim wasn't totally ruled out by basic physics. When I first heard about this factory of Rossi's it struck me as a red flag -- like the little additional note on the end of a child's story, "And then he died!" that, instead of strengthening the tale, makes it collapse completely into a heap of unbelievable assertions. * Brief technical reports or affidavits from qualified experts (even
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: loud! -- while assuming other people will not notice these things, it is impossible not to entertain profound uneasiness about the claims. Understated, Jed. Darn right it's understated. I bit my tongue. I have been biting it for a year. You can see the scars. I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that Levi doesn't believe it's for real, no matter what he says in interviews. Hmmm . . . That is not my impression, but you could be right. Villa expresses many doubts. Perhaps Levi shares them with him. The good news -- we hope -- is that Levi says he will do further tests, lasting at least one day or more. See: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3083834.ece In his blog, Rossi denied there would be more tests. More confusion, more misinformation. Levi's report is a travesty, which could have been bettered by any 12th grade chemistry student. I cannot believe that that was a report prepared by someone who thinks he has just witnessed the biggest breakthrough in the last three decades. (I don't mean his /measurements/ were poor; I mean the /report/ was D- material, totally slipshod, just thrown together.) The report was thrown together in a week. It was a rush job. But I think you should cut him some slack. In my experience, elderly professors often do a poor job writing papers of this nature. They usually take a lot longer to write a short report. Plus, I think a big problem may be that English is Levi's second language. I would have a heck of a time writing a report like that in Japanese, and I might sacrifice some quality because I spend so much time getting the language right. (On the other hand, if it were me writing in a second language, you can be darn sure I would run it past a native speaker, so there would be no gross mistakes. I made some corrections to the English version of the Levi paper in the LENR-CANR.org version, as I noted at the top of the first page.) As I said in one of my responses to this list, after reading Levi's report, that's what it looks to me like it is. In short, it's a disaster on wheels for the field of cold fusion I hope not! That's what I fear. That's why I am so upset about the confusion and misdirection, or whatever it is. And assuming the thing is real, it would so easy to get it right! It would be easy to provide convincing information. That galls me to no end. That's the story of cold fusion. Good experiments. Good results. Botched communication. I had been starting to think I believed this, until I read Levi's report. Even if he'd only written it up for a few friends (or his Facebook page), if he thought this was for real, I have to believe he'd have done a more thorough job of reporting on it. Actually, I thought the slipshod writing and the obvious haste gave it a note of verisimilitude. I thought ah, that's a genuine Italian professor alright. I have edited some first-draft papers as bad as that. Ed Storms called it amateurish. I agree. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
On 02/03/2011 05:39 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: from Rossi's blog http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=360#comments DEFKALION Energy Group February 3rd, 2011 at 6:28 AM On behalf of Defkalion, we w?uld like to clarify the following: The full name of Defkalion comapny is: Defkalion Green Technologies S.A. registered in Athens Greece. A photovoltaic comapny by the name Defkalion has no connection with us nor do they know anything on this technology. For inquiries please forward your messages only to stsalikog...@gmail.com or to i...@defkalion-energy.com Whoo hoo -- there's something there! It's a one-page website, marked Under Construction! So who owns it? Looks like somebody named Andreas Meintanis in Elefsina. Visit AboutUs.org for more information about defkalion-energy.com a href=http://www.aboutus.org/defkalion-energy.com;AboutUs: defkalion-energy.com/a Registration Service Provided By: IP.GR Contact: i...@ip.gr Visit: http://www.ip.gr Domain name: defkalion-energy.com Registrant Contact: ANDREAS MEINTANIS () Fax: KONTOULI 31 ELEFSINA, ELEFSINA 19200 GR Administrative Contact: ANDREAS MEINTANIS (dimitrios.meida...@gmail.com) +30.6979984978 Fax: +30.2105546559 KONTOULI 31 ELEFSINA, ELEFSINA 19200 GR Technical Contact: ANDREAS MEINTANIS (dimitrios.meida...@gmail.com) +30.6979984978 Fax: +30.2105546559 KONTOULI 31 ELEFSINA, ELEFSINA 19200 GR Status: Locked Name Servers: ns1.server68.net ns1.server68.net ns2.server68.net Creation date: 13 Jan 2011 20:00:00 Expiration date: 13 Jan 2013 15:00:00 Hey, it was registered on *January 13 of this year!* It's over two weeks old already! Could this be for real, after all? So what does aboutus.org know about them (it's mentioned on the registration page, after all)? We don't know about defkalion-energy.com yet Oh, well. It was worth a try.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Domain name: leonardocorp1996.com Registrant Contact: Andrea Rossi () Fax: Via Carlo Ragazzi 28 Bondeno, Ferrara 44012 IT Administrative Contact: Andrea Rossi (i...@leonardocorp1996.com) +39.0532897038 Fax: +. Via Carlo Ragazzi 28 Bondeno, Ferrara 44012 IT Technical Contact: Andrea Rossi (i...@leonardocorp1996.com) +39.0532897038 Fax: +. Via Carlo Ragazzi 28 Bondeno, Ferrara 44012 IT Status: Locked Name Servers: dns01.gpn.register.com dns02.gpn.register.com dns03.gpn.register.com dns04.gpn.register.com dns05.gpn.register.com Creation date: 22 Sep 2009 07:55:32 Expiration date: 22 Sep 2011 07:55:00
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Florida Profit Corporation LEONARDO CORPORATION Filing Information Document Number P1091220 FEI/EIN Number NONE Date Filed 11/08/2010 State FL Status ACTIVE Principal Address 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Mailing Address 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Registered Agent Name Address ROSSI, ANDREA 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Officer/Director Detail Name Address Title PD ROSSI, ANDREA 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Title SD TRAVIS, JAMES R 8 TOWN FARM ROAD NEW BOSOTON NH 03070 http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFILinq_doc_number=P1091220inq_came_from=NAMFWDcor_web_names_seq_number=names_name_ind=Nnames_cor_number=names_name_seq=names_name_ind=names_comp_name=LEONARDOnames_filing_type=
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Nice apartment. Wonder who lives there? T On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:23 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Florida Profit Corporation LEONARDO CORPORATION Filing Information Document Number P1091220 FEI/EIN Number NONE Date Filed 11/08/2010 State FL Status ACTIVE Principal Address 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Mailing Address 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Registered Agent Name Address ROSSI, ANDREA 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Officer/Director Detail Name Address Title PD ROSSI, ANDREA 1331 LINCOLN RD., APT 505 MIAMI BEACH FL 33139 Title SD TRAVIS, JAMES R 8 TOWN FARM ROAD NEW BOSOTON NH 03070 http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/cordet.exe?action=DETFILinq_doc_number=P1091220inq_came_from=NAMFWDcor_web_names_seq_number=names_name_ind=Nnames_cor_number=names_name_seq=names_name_ind=names_comp_name=LEONARDOnames_filing_type=
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
? http://gr.linkedin.com/in/stavrostsalikoglou
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
I did a research on Defkalion energy. It seems that the company is located in number 3, Xenofondos street, in Halandri, Athens. A few days ago, I emailed stsalikog...@gmail.com Defkalion Energy Defkalion thanks you for your interest in the Energy Catalyzer regarding licensince, sales and marketing opportunities. This truly remarkable technological breakthrough has received too many requests from a wide spectrum of industries and countries. As such, individual replies cannot be issued for the time being. Please forward your preferred contact details for our future consideration. A public announcement shall be made in the near future with more precise information. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jYWN4aGuAToJ:talefta.blogspot.com/2011/01/defkalion-energy.html+Defkalion+Energycd=3hl=enct=clnkgl=ussource=www.google.com
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Can you name *one* person who made what turned out to be a breakthrough in physics, and who was known to be unreliable and dishonest, *and* who had *no formal training* in the field? Davy, especially in his later years and his treatment of Faraday. In technology, Edison, and Steve Jobs. People with no formal training seldom have an opportunity to contribute, so there are only a handful of them. Not a good statistical sample. There are many famous, unreliable and dishonest professional scientists. Amateurs can seldom contribute for two reasons: 1. They can only take a role at the beginning. After a few years when a body of knowledge builds up, you need professional training just to catch up. Cold fusion is just beginning, so Rossi may have a role to play. 2. Nowadays, they are locked out by funding agencies, professional journals, venture capitalists and other establishment institutions. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
At 05:13 PM 2/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote:
{quoting Rossi]
3. About your suppositions, I will make no more tests on
modulbecause it is clear that people like you will also find something wrong.
It's all Rothwell's fault that Rossi will disappear, no more demonstrations?
Wait until october, you will have surprises.
Regards,
Andrea Rossi
Personally, I'm happy to wait. You know, if the scientific community
had waited, in 1989, until they had better information from Pons and
Fleischmann, we'd probably be way ahead today.
What's to be surprised about? Yeah, okay, maybe what Rossi has made
look like a fraud turns out to be real. Jed has pointed out that
sometimes appearances aren't real. But what do we bet on?
The shame would be if other cold fusion reearch came to a halt while
everyone falls over themselves to try to figure out what Rossi has
done. Nickel has always been considered an important possible
approach. But I'll point out that we don't know what is actually in
the Rossi reactor, and gee, there must be something in there just
doesn't cut it.
Anyone who wants to develop something secretly is welcome to do it,
but they shouldn't be suprrised if the world doesn't fall all over
itself rushing to support the secret process that will revolutionize
energy production. If there are those funding Rossi, I certainly
hope, for their sakes, that they've done due diligence, but that
Rossi is complaining about doing this with his own money, and working
20 hours a day, showing signs of instability in what he wrote to
Rothwell, well, who is to blame for that?
Rothwell was trying to tell him how to involve investors, so that
he'd have the money to hire help, arrange for manufacturing, etc. He
wants to do it his way, again, that's his privilege. If he has some
real invention here, great, I hope he shares it with someone so that
if he keels over from the stress, it won't be lost.
Does he have family?
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote: Rothwell was trying to tell him how to involve investors, so that he'd have the money to hire help, arrange for manufacturing, etc. He wants to do it his way, again, that's his privilege. I have been telling him that *politely*, I might add, for about a year. I blew my top today with for the first time. I got sick of the wild goose chase. Other people have been offering to help him, sometimes with no strings attached. He says no. And then complains he is overworked. I'll bet he doesn't want to hear from me again! I have asked others connected to him to make the following suggestion -- He should allow others to make arrangements for the 1 MW reactor demonstration. Someone should hire an independent engineering consulting firm, expert in heat measurements. I met some people like that while investigating Hydrodynamics, Inc. They should bring in power meters, flowmeters, and temperature sensors of various types: thermocouples, IR sensors and so on. Even with a megawatt, assuming there is power input some questions need to be addressed and a professional report has to be written, or the results will not convince people. Done properly, it will convince everyone. A forlorn hope, I suppose . . . Making a demonstration large does not necessarily make it easier to understand or more convincing. The large-scale demos I saw at Hydrodynamics were sometime tricky to interpret. It will depend on how much electric power the gadget needs, how big the gadget is, the layout and how easily you can see the components and identify them, and various other factors. I recommend practicing the demo for a month or two before calling in formal observers. It should be thoroughly rehearsed and scripted, like a trade-show demo put on by IBM. No surprises, no ad-libbing, plenty of pre-printed take-home material, and videos, data uploaded to the web and so on. When people say demo they envision watching the first time someone cranks up the machine, like seeing the Wright brothers at Kitty Hawk. I have in mind seeing Orville Wright at Fort Meyer, Virginia in 1908, when he flew for an hour. * I want to see a professional demonstration put on by someone who has done it dozens of times and knows the machine inside-out. - Jed * Sept. 9, 1908. On Sept. 17 he crashed and killed his passenger. It should serve as a warning that even consummate professionals make mistakes with new technology.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion Energy has no knowledge of Rossi, and Leonardo Company is defunct
I wrote: Even with a megawatt, assuming there is power input some questions need to be addressed and a professional report has to be written, or the results will not convince people. Done properly, it will convince everyone. And let me add that I think any professional engineer could take the 12 kW gadget and use it in a demo that convinces everyone. Heck, I could do that! Get a proper video camera crew and proper lighting. Write a script. Show the audience the components and tubes and instruments. Anticipate and answer all reasonable skeptical objections, which is easy to do, given the simplicity of the system. Point out what's what, how it works, then let 'er rip and let it run all afternoon. Piece of cake. Anyone who has conducted a trade show demo or taught elementary school kids could do a better job than Levi et al. did. No need to go overboard on the production values. You don't have to be Hollywood. On the contrary it enhances credibility when you look geeky or professorial. That is the most ironic aspect of this crazy situation. Rossi does not need a 1 MW reactor to convince people. If he does another poorly planned, poorly conducted demo with the 1 MW unit, he will not convince people. He imagines that scaling up will give him credibility. Maybe it will, depending on the nature of the demo, but not necessarily. - Jed
