RE: [WSG] mutli language websites
Hello Sam, Here are some thoughts I have on the topic... Richard Ishida W3C contact info: http://www.w3.org/People/Ishida/ W3C Internationalization: http://www.w3.org/International/ Publication blog: http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sam sherlock Sent: 16 May 2005 23:34 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] mutli language websites Hello WSG List Members, I am delveloping a website that can switch between english and itallian. I am wondering if I should be using en-GB or en-gb for my lang attributes By convention language (en) is lower case, and country (GB) is upper - but it's only a convention, and actually the values are not case-sensitive. For more information see http://www.w3.org/International/articles/language-tags/ and also for the meta http-equiv=Content-Language content=en-GB / I don't know of any user agents that use the language declarations in the meta statement. I suggest you use attributes on the html element for declaring the text-processing language of a page, and consider using the HTTP header for indicating primary language metadata. For more details, see http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/ are these attributes sensitive to casing? or should I just have en also is the charset iso-8859-1 OK for italian content? As some others have suggested, why not use utf-8. It may solve problems at a later date. I would also appreciate any links to web standard sites using multiple languages? See examples of how we do it at http://www.w3.org/International/O-charset and http://www.w3.org/International/articles/serving-xhtml/ Note that we are dealing with the odd page here and there that has a translated version. For this we use content negotiation to try to serve the person with the right page based on their browser's accept language information, but we also include links on each page. This is useful for: - people who ended up on this page because they used someone else's computer - people who are curious and need to get back to a language they recognise - people who's browser settings indicate, say, Hungarian (for which there is no translation), but would prefer to read a German version rather than English in this case (when there are both possibilities). See also Francois Yergeau's article at http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-when-lang-neg hope that helps some RI thanks in advance, Sam ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] mambo and web standards
Greetings, I'm strongly considering using Mambo as a CMS, mainly because I have a new client that requires a back-end real estate solution, and Mosets has created, from what I can tell, exactly what the client needs. I've never used a CMS before, so I'm wondering if anybody could relieve my fears (or justify them). Can I create a web site for this client, and then integrate Mambo into it, or do I have to think further ahead and set things up in Mambo, then build a template for it? I'm sorry if those are silly questions, but...well...like I said, I've never used a CMS before. :) Getting more to the point (and on-topic), does Mambo support web standards? I'm obviously going to use CSS and XHTML on this, so I need to be sure that I'm not getting into something that goes against my design ethics. Thanks for your help. -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Design http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] mambo and web standards
Im not a WSG moderator, but I know they'll soon point you to joining cms@webstandardsgroup.org where your post is not off-topic (OT) -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Need a Sydney based web standards contractor? You need my services. Recent projects for NetX, Glassonion, Freshweb, Cogentis http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://bookcrossing.com/referral/neerav john wrote: Greetings, I'm strongly considering using Mambo as a CMS, mainly because I have a new client that requires a back-end real estate solution, and Mosets has created, from what I can tell, exactly what the client needs. I've never used a CMS before, so I'm wondering if anybody could relieve my fears (or justify them). Can I create a web site for this client, and then integrate Mambo into it, or do I have to think further ahead and set things up in Mambo, then build a template for it? I'm sorry if those are silly questions, but...well...like I said, I've never used a CMS before. :) Getting more to the point (and on-topic), does Mambo support web standards? I'm obviously going to use CSS and XHTML on this, so I need to be sure that I'm not getting into something that goes against my design ethics. Thanks for your help. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] mambo and web standards
Hi John, I have had the similar question but dared not ask in this list as I afraid it maybe off-topic, so I did a little search myself... And I came to a conclusion that it's not whether Mambo can be 'web standards', but how can we make it 'web standards'. I haven't come to conclusion yet but the experiment I have done so far looks promising. Maybe these three tutorials are helpful to you as they do to me: Template for CSS layout http://www.absalom.biz/tutorials/Mambo_Template_Tutorial.html And this (PC user will benefit more): http://www.mambosolutions.com/dw_tutorial/ And use your own CSS menu: http://www.mambobrothers.com/mambo/ tee Greetings, I'm strongly considering using Mambo as a CMS, mainly because I have a new client that requires a back-end real estate solution, and Mosets has created, from what I can tell, exactly what the client needs. I've never used a CMS before, so I'm wondering if anybody could relieve my fears (or justify them). Can I create a web site for this client, and then integrate Mambo into it, or do I have to think further ahead and set things up in Mambo, then build a template for it? I'm sorry if those are silly questions, but...well...like I said, I've never used a CMS before. :) Getting more to the point (and on-topic), does Mambo support web standards? I'm obviously going to use CSS and XHTML on this, so I need to be sure that I'm not getting into something that goes against my design ethics. Thanks for your help. -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Design http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] mambo and web standards
And by the way, my respectful moderators, before you make up your mind that this thread is 'off-topic', I sincerely hope you give a benefit of doubts. CMS by itself may not have anything to do with web standards, but it's all in the hands of the users. A highly web standards conscious user maybe able to turn a CMS software to web standards compliant, however I also strongly believe that a pool of high profile web standards users like this group can help achieve it a lot easier, with a healthy, on-topic discussion. That being said, if my argument cannot convince respectful you, despite many talents and knowledge I see in this list, I will have to admit that this is not the place I want to learn web standards, and have no regret my email address be removed. Regards, tee From: tee [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 02:49:20 -0700 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] mambo and web standards Hi John, I have had the similar question but dared not ask in this list as I afraid it maybe off-topic, so I did a little search myself... And I came to a conclusion that it's not whether Mambo can be 'web standards', but how can we make it 'web standards'. I haven't come to conclusion yet but the experiment I have done so far looks promising. Maybe these three tutorials are helpful to you as they do to me: Template for CSS layout http://www.absalom.biz/tutorials/Mambo_Template_Tutorial.html And this (PC user will benefit more): http://www.mambosolutions.com/dw_tutorial/ And use your own CSS menu: http://www.mambobrothers.com/mambo/ tee Greetings, I'm strongly considering using Mambo as a CMS, mainly because I have a new client that requires a back-end real estate solution, and Mosets has created, from what I can tell, exactly what the client needs. I've never used a CMS before, so I'm wondering if anybody could relieve my fears (or justify them). Can I create a web site for this client, and then integrate Mambo into it, or do I have to think further ahead and set things up in Mambo, then build a template for it? I'm sorry if those are silly questions, but...well...like I said, I've never used a CMS before. :) Getting more to the point (and on-topic), does Mambo support web standards? I'm obviously going to use CSS and XHTML on this, so I need to be sure that I'm not getting into something that goes against my design ethics. Thanks for your help. -- ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Design http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] mambo and web standards [MOVED TO CMS]
Absolutely correct Lawrence. I (as a CMS developer) understand very well the need for standards compliant systems and a place to discuss the issues. That is why encourage anyone that is interested (and sadly, many developers are not) to join and use the WSG-CMS list. Just log in to http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/ and select it from the mail lists in your email preferences. Please move this thread to that list for any further discussion so that those who are not interested don't need to see the traffic, that is indeed off-topic, on the mail WSG list. Regards, Peter It'd be better to discuss in depth on the WSG-CMS list (which I'm also on), but suffice to say web standards is an aim of Mambo.. What that aim comprimises and how well it achieves it is more appropriate for the WSG-CMS list. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ® character
Lee wrote: Hello Listpeople, Anyone know if there's an XHTML special char. for ® ? Can't you use the standard registered entity reference: reg;? http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ section C-12. Best, .Peter -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm There are 6 billion people on this planet.and I like 8 of them. -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ® character
registered trademark reg; #174; Copied and pasted from http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_entitiesref.asp On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 11:58 +0100, Lee wrote: Hello Listpeople, Anyone know if there's an XHTML special char. for ? Kind Regards, Joshua Street base10solutions Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Re: [WSG] ® character
On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:58:08 +0100, Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know if there's an XHTML special char. for ? #174; You should avoid all named entities in XHTML, except quot, amp, lt, gt. For all other characters use unicode encoding or numeric unicode entity reference. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ® character
Seems to validate - many thanks! Lee Joshua Street wrote: registered trademark reg; #174; Copied and pasted from http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_entitiesref.asp On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 11:58 +0100, Lee wrote: Hello Listpeople, Anyone know if there's an XHTML special char. for ? Kind Regards, Joshua Street base10solutions Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Lee Jorgensen Funzig Web Design Development Ltd http://www.funzig.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ® character
I believe it's reg; ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Design http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter on 5/17/2005 11:58 AM Lee said the following: Hello Listpeople, Anyone know if there's an XHTML special char. for ® ? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Re: [WSG] ® character
Why might that be then? Lee Kornel Lesinski wrote: On Tue, 17 May 2005 11:58:08 +0100, Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone know if there's an XHTML special char. for ? #174; You should avoid all named entities in XHTML, except quot, amp, lt, gt. For all other characters use unicode encoding or numeric unicode entity reference. -- Lee Jorgensen Funzig Web Design Development Ltd http://www.funzig.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ® character
Kornel Lesinski wrote: #174; You should avoid all named entities in XHTML, except quot, amp, lt, gt. For all other characters use unicode encoding or numeric unicode entity reference. Then why does the W3 use it in their example? http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ section c12 -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
Tom Hamshere wrote: I know it's not perfect (particularly that there are priority 2 accessibility issues), but could people please take a look at http://www.lastminute.com Any feedback appreciated. One word: pink? -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 12:28 +0100, Tom Hamshere wrote: could people please take a look at http://www.lastminute.com By default it sniffs my IP and uses geo mapping to fly me off to au.lastminute.com, which is a horrible table affair... don't know if you've got any control over that, but it's hardly ideal! The calendar thing in the Flights form doesn't *seem* to be working (FF0.93,Linux), just displaying Loading... indefinitely. This could be a local problem, but the visibility of Loading itself is a bit dubious... consider setting a background for this element whilst it loads or something... With the Price Match Guarantee link, any particular reason it has to open in a new window? And, if it *must*, does it need to be a window without browser chrome? At least consider including a Close Window link in it if you're going down this route (I wouldn't...) Only other thing I could immediately spot was that users browsing with images disabled will have difficulty viewing some text due to the background colour - this background colour doesn't *look* as though it's necessary, because there'll be an image whacked on top of it. Conversely, if images are disabled, it just makes the text harder to see. I can't describe where I saw it because it appears to dynamically change, but it's one of the six boxes about the centre of the document - for me, it was Alicante, Faro and Malaga from 74 - div.page_content div.single_column h2 a according to Firefox's Web Developer toolbar View style information utility. Generally, great site! Kind Regards, Joshua Street Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
p.s. whose idea was this: http://www.lastminute.com/site/main/boss_page_spreadsheet.html I laughed... :D On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 12:28 +0100, Tom Hamshere wrote: Any feedback appreciated. Kind Regards, Joshua Street Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] apostrophes, and the like.
Hi All, How much do I need to bother about quotation marks etc being represented as their 'proper' equivalent, eg ' as #39, and so on? I am working on an extract from a writer's work and as I've cut and pasted a lot of it, I've ended up with the horrific prospect of painstakingly going through and changing all the quotes, apostrophes, dashes etc etc. (the validator shouts at the moment!) ?? Any help, utilities etc would be strongmost/strong welcome! :-) Thanks, Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
I like the Iterate sexy partnerships bit! Lee Joshua Street wrote: p.s. whose idea was this: http://www.lastminute.com/site/main/boss_page_spreadsheet.html I laughed... :D On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 12:28 +0100, Tom Hamshere wrote: Any feedback appreciated. Kind Regards, Joshua Street Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Lee Jorgensen Funzig Web Design Development Ltd http://www.funzig.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ® character
On 17 May 2005, at 8:37 pm, Peter J. Farrell wrote: Kornel Lesinski wrote: #174; You should avoid all named entities in XHTML, except quot, amp, lt, gt. For all other characters use unicode encoding or numeric unicode entity reference. Then why does the W3 use it in their example? http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ section c12 It is valid for text/html (aka tagsoup). If you serve the document as application/xhtml+xml, then the browser should ignore named entities except the 5 ones (quot, amp, lt, gt and apos). Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
I'll tell you a little secret. A popup on entering, and then every link in site had a popup ad, and another when closed. It isn't a site I would even consider looking at. Probably applies to most people, as we have all gotten tired of such methods. Bruce Prochnau - Original Message - From: Tom Hamshere [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 7:28 AM Subject: [WSG] Site check I know it's not perfect (particularly that there are priority 2 accessibility issues), but could people please take a look at http://www.lastminute.com Any feedback appreciated. Thanks, Tom Hamshere ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] apostrophes, and the like.
On Tue, 17 May 2005 13:00:28 +0100, designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much do I need to bother about quotation marks etc being represented as their 'proper' equivalent, eg ' as #39, and so on? Not much. I've ended up with the horrific prospect of painstakingly going through and changing all the quotes, apostrophes, dashes etc etc. (the validator shouts at the moment!) HTML Tidy can do that for you. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
Peter J. Farrell wrote: Old Computer programmers never die, they just decompile. -- Tom Hamshere wrote: I know it's not perfect (particularly that there are priority 2 accessibility issues), but could people please take a look at http://www.lastminute.com Any feedback appreciated. One word: pink? Sorry, I'm outta line...(although it definitely was striking)... Run your code through tidy and the W3 validators (jigsaw and the validator)...and fix some errors. A lot of them in your urls because is used instead of the entity reference amp; which xhtml requires. See: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/ section c12 I would prefer to see something like - for you time selection - it's easier to comprehend. Midnight-Noon Noon-Six Six-Midnight -- Peter J. Farrell :: Maestro Publishing blog:: http://blog.maestropublishing.com email :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Create boilerplate beans! Check out the Mach-II Bean Creator - free download. http://blog.maestropublishing.com/mach-ii_beaner.htm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] apostrophes, and the like.
http://photomatt.net/tools/texturize makes it really easy. He's also responsible for the WordPress blogging software (I know, off topic...) which has that function embedded. Quotation marks and apostrophes, if copied out of Word, can give you all kinds of messy encoding errors... best to either use plain text or properly encoded entities. (Entity bonanza here tonight, isn't it??) Using the right entity codes also means you get left and right quotation marks, which, all typographical semantics aside, simply look more professional. Josh On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 13:00 +0100, designer wrote: Hi All, How much do I need to bother about quotation marks etc being represented as their 'proper' equivalent, eg ' as #39, and so on? I am working on an extract from a writer's work and as I've cut and pasted a lot of it, I've ended up with the horrific prospect of painstakingly going through and changing all the quotes, apostrophes, dashes etc etc. (the validator shouts at the moment!) ?? Any help, utilities etc would be strongmost/strong welcome! :-) Thanks, Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] apostrophes, and the like.
Hi Quotes, ampersands, , and single quotes are reserved characters (entities). Basically you should only use quotes within tags like a href=blah.phpfoo/a. If you want to avoid problems with badly formed markup (XML for instance) then always use the entity version if the character e.g a href=foo.phpquot;barquot;/a An XML parser would barf on a href=foo.phpbar/a as the quote char describes an attribute. This is badly formed markup. Reading material... http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/charset.html A simple search and replace will solve it for you Cheers James On 5/17/05, designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, How much do I need to bother about quotation marks etc being represented as their 'proper' equivalent, eg ' as #39, and so on? I am working on an extract from a writer's work and as I've cut and pasted a lot of it, I've ended up with the horrific prospect of painstakingly going through and changing all the quotes, apostrophes, dashes etc etc. (the validator shouts at the moment!) ?? Any help, utilities etc would be strongmost/strong welcome! :-) Thanks, Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] apostrophes, and the like.
On Tue, 17 May 2005 13:21:23 +0100, James Ellis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: a href=foo.phpquot;barquot;/a An XML parser would barf on a href=foo.phpbar/a as the quote char describes an attribute. This is badly formed markup. No, it is not. Quotes and apostrophes can be used in XML text. You can use them even in attributes, if different type of quote is used to quote attribute value. 'thatis absolutely='legal xml' /' -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
Tom Hamshere wrote: I know it's not perfect (particularly that there are priority 2 accessibility issues), but could people please take a look at http://www.lastminute.com Because of your 80% default font size, I have to zoom at least one step to use those Flights selects. They're already messed up at that point. After I zoom once more, it's a serious mess. Depending on which browser I open it in, it may or may not display any of your More search options. -- Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.John 1:3 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
On 5/17/05, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll tell you a little secret. A popup on entering, and then every link in site had a popup ad, and another when closed. It isn't a site I would even consider looking at. Probably applies to most people, as we have all gotten tired of such methods. I hear you, but it's not a secret. It's just something that can prove hard to manage when you bring marketing people in to the mix. -- Tom Hamshere ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
On 5/17/05, Peter J. Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One word: pink? Sorry, I'm outta line...(although it definitely was striking)... Heh, no, no problem. It's our brand colour and has proven impossible to get rid of :) Run your code through tidy and the W3 validators (jigsaw and the validator)...and fix some errors. A lot of them in your urls because is used instead of the entity reference amp; which xhtml requires. Aye, I'm aware of those - I'm looking in to methods of getting the cms to auto-replace them. There are a a couple of other errors (extra /a) that seem to be due to the templating system rather than the templates themselves. I would prefer to see something like - for you time selection - it's easier to comprehend. Midnight-Noon Noon-Six Six-Midnight What about just Morning, Afternoon, Evening? -- Tom Hamshere ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check
On 5/17/05, Jacobus van Niekerk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tom, Great site, I did not know lastminute was going standards based. Congrats! Looking good, was also glad about the recent deal that was made. Yes, we've been working on it steadily for the last year or so. Still a way to go... I am a css guy myself, so if you need some testing or comments, let me know! Or anything else I can help with. I was more interested in what people thought of it in terms of accessibility. There are unresolved issues on Opera on both the PC and Mac involving the div class=clear/div seperators - if you've got any ideas about that it'd be appreciated. -- Tom Hamshere ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Odd Firefox Issue...
Hey Guys, Just wondering if you have ever seen this problem with firefox. There is no javascript effecting the page - its just as it loads. I think maybe the screen is auto scrolling down - but still... Is there anything I can do to avoid this?? http://img172.echo.cx/img172/715/issue0pk.jpg Sorry the website is internal at the moment. The page is valid XHTML 1.1 I am sure I heard someone else mention it before. PS. Please ignore the grammar etc. on that page. That is what a night coding does to you :P Grammar goes a little haywire. Cheers list! - Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Odd Firefox Issue...
Hey Peter the list, Sorry didn't realise it wasn't this common. I unlocked the site to do a browercam anyway... So I may aswell post the link. [Browser cam page: http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=163559 (note that browsercam has had a makeover - its nice :D] This URL will PROBABLY be locked in about 24 hours again... So if you load the site and see an error, thanks for help, but I had to lock it... http://www.simplyrewarding.com.au/register.html Cheers guys! - Chris There is one error on the page, its just the NAME for the form Peter Firminger wrote: Really need to see the code Chris. Can you post it to another site for debugging purposes? P -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Stratford Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Odd Firefox Issue... Hey Guys, Just wondering if you have ever seen this problem with firefox. There is no javascript effecting the page - its just as it loads. I think maybe the screen is auto scrolling down - but still... Is there anything I can do to avoid this?? http://img172.echo.cx/img172/715/issue0pk.jpg Sorry the website is internal at the moment. The page is valid XHTML 1.1 I am sure I heard someone else mention it before. PS. Please ignore the grammar etc. on that page. That is what a night coding does to you :P Grammar goes a little haywire. Cheers list! - Chris ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] ® character
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: It is valid for text/html (aka tagsoup). If you serve the document as application/xhtml+xml, then the browser should ignore named entities except the 5 ones (quot, amp, lt, gt and apos). That is not exactly correct. If in a document served as application/xhtml+xml the entities are defined correctly by the DTD pointed to by the DOCTYPE or in its internal subset, then they are perfectly usable, unless of course in the former case if you are dealing with a processor that does not fetch external entities. If the above made little or no sense to you, congratulations, you have not wasted time figuring out useless technology :) Yet another reason to forget about the whole mess with entities and just use UTF-8. -- Robin Berjon Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Odd Firefox Issue...
Chris Stratford wrote: Hey Guys, Just wondering if you have ever seen this problem with firefox. Hi Chris, I do not experience any problem with that page (FF 0.8/WinXP) Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
I have a sound file that my client wants me to put on his web site. It is a radio advert that they currently have running. The format of the file is m4a (mp4). I have used a program that converts it to mp3 or other formats if required. What is the best way to go about including it on a web page, and keeping it standards compliant (to at least HTML 4.01 Transitional)? Including sound files is not something I often do, you'll be glad to know. I will also NOT be setting it to start playing itself, it will be up to the user! Should I keep it in the m4a format or use mp3 or use something else? I got it working with the following code: object width=160 height=16 classid=clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B codebase=http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab; param name=src value=media/advert.mp4 param name=autoplay value=false param name=controller value=true embed src=media/advert.mp4 width=160 height=16 autoplay=false controller=false pluginspage=http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/; /object However, it doesn't work in Firefox. I need something that will work in different browsers and different platforms. Does anyone know the best way to do this? Thanks, Stephen -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
I would use Flash to play the audio and provide an alternative link to the sound file as alternative content thanks SS Stevio wrote: I have a sound file that my client wants me to put on his web site. It is a radio advert that they currently have running. The format of the file is m4a (mp4). I have used a program that converts it to mp3 or other formats if required. What is the best way to go about including it on a web page, and keeping it standards compliant (to at least HTML 4.01 Transitional)? Including sound files is not something I often do, you'll be glad to know. I will also NOT be setting it to start playing itself, it will be up to the user! Should I keep it in the m4a format or use mp3 or use something else? I got it working with the following code: object width=160 height=16 classid=clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B codebase=http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab; param name=src value=media/advert.mp4 param name=autoplay value=false param name=controller value=true embed src=media/advert.mp4 width=160 height=16 autoplay=false controller=false pluginspage=http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/; /object However, it doesn't work in Firefox. I need something that will work in different browsers and different platforms. Does anyone know the best way to do this? Thanks, Stephen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
What is the benefit in using Flash to do something that you can quite easily do without flash? Stephen - Original Message - From: sam sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way? I would use Flash to play the audio and provide an alternative link to the sound file as alternative content thanks SS -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] make poverty history website
Hi List, I visited the www.makepovertyhistory.org website last night and was pleased to see that the site uses Geoff Sterns FlashObject. This seems to reaffirm my opinion that the flashObject method of placing flash in the page is more approprate than the MM object / embed code and flash satay or other technics used elsewhere. I consider this to be a real world issue in developing modern websites, standard or otherwise since flash and rich media is often an important part of the build of the site (clients and user like it when it works well) So I wanted to know what the list thinks of the flashObject technic and other alternatives out there? More info can be found on Flash Object here: http://blog.deconcept.com/2005/03/31/proper-flash-embedding-flashobject-best-practices/ Flash Satay http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ sIFR http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/sifr atb SS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Stevio Should I keep it in the m4a format or use mp3 or use something else? I'd opt for mp3 I got it working with the following code: However, it doesn't work in Firefox. I need something that will work in different browsers and different platforms. As much as I hate saying it, you may consider using flash. I just recently created a small player shell in flash, which displays the standard player controls but takes the mp3 file to play as a parameter of the url (similar to the sacrificial shell flash file used in the satay method. For users without flash, you can then also include a download this file link directly to the mp3. I may upload an experiment later tonight, showing this loader in action. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
I would use Flash to play the audio and provide an alternative link to the sound file as alternative content Yes, I agree. Flash is extremely versatile with handling audio files - and if you have even just a little experience with Flash, you can easily export a SWF file with an MP3 embedded. The issues that come up are: 1) making the reference to the SWF file, in HTML, standards compliant. 2) the actual file size of the music file - which, in turn, makes the exported SWF file just as large. I'm sure there are more issues I'm not aware of. But, all in all, if I were doing the same thing - I'd start with Flash, and work up from there, instead of trying to embed it like you had in the first example. MATTHOM On 5/17/05, sam sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would use Flash to play the audio and provide an alternative link to the sound file as alternative content thanks SS Stevio wrote: I have a sound file that my client wants me to put on his web site. It is a radio advert that they currently have running. The format of the file is m4a (mp4). I have used a program that converts it to mp3 or other formats if required. What is the best way to go about including it on a web page, and keeping it standards compliant (to at least HTML 4.01 Transitional)? Including sound files is not something I often do, you'll be glad to know. I will also NOT be setting it to start playing itself, it will be up to the user! Should I keep it in the m4a format or use mp3 or use something else? I got it working with the following code: object width=160 height=16 classid=clsid:02BF25D5-8C17-4B23-BC80-D3488ABDDC6B codebase=http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab; param name=src value=media/advert.mp4 param name=autoplay value=false param name=controller value=true embed src=media/advert.mp4 width=160 height=16 autoplay=false controller=false pluginspage=http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/; /object However, it doesn't work in Firefox. I need something that will work in different browsers and different platforms. Does anyone know the best way to do this? Thanks, Stephen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
I completely agree, use Flash. I'd say the same for video too, for the same reasons. Why: One solution multiple platforms. Saturation on all computers is over 90%. That's more than any browser. No platform compatibility issues Mac / PC. No browser issues Firefox / IE / Netscape / Opera. With a single start / stop button in Flash, alongside a link to download the file. IMHO Mike 2k:)2 Mike Foskett Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant Multimedia Publishing and Production British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta) Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 02476 416994 Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday] Fax: 02476 411410 www.becta.org.uk -Original Message- From: Stevio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2005 17:01 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way? What is the benefit in using Flash to do something that you can quite easily do without flash? Stephen - Original Message - From: sam sherlock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way? I would use Flash to play the audio and provide an alternative link to the sound file as alternative content thanks SS -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
On 5/17/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom Hamshere wrote: Because of your 80% default font size, I have to zoom at least one step to use those Flights selects. They're already messed up at that point. After I zoom once more, it's a serious mess. Depending on which browser I open it in, it may or may not display any of your More search options. I'd been recommended 80% as an ideal default text size by a wide variety of people, including, IIRC, the WAI. How would you recommend solving the problem? -- Tom Hamshere ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] make poverty history website
Hi Sam, Is there a reason why http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/video/?pageVideo=/flv/clickuk512k.flv does not display in Firefox v1.0.3 ? Reading the associated articles it should do, and when it doesn't it should display an alternative text version, though MPH probably forgot. Mike 2k:)2 -Original Message- From: sam sherlock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2005 17:13 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] make poverty history website Hi List, I visited the www.makepovertyhistory.org website last night and was pleased to see that the site uses Geoff Sterns FlashObject. This seems to reaffirm my opinion that the flashObject method of placing flash in the page is more approprate than the MM object / embed code and flash satay or other technics used elsewhere. I consider this to be a real world issue in developing modern websites, standard or otherwise since flash and rich media is often an important part of the build of the site (clients and user like it when it works well) So I wanted to know what the list thinks of the flashObject technic and other alternatives out there? More info can be found on Flash Object here: http://blog.deconcept.com/2005/03/31/proper-flash-embedding-flashobject-best-practices/ Flash Satay http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ sIFR http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/sifr atb SS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] got a safari hack
Is there an equivelant to the underscore hack for safari out there?
Based on Bert Doorn's idea in January, I started developing and testing
this:
http://www.bivia.com/sandbox/safari-hack/
It was working perfectly as a Safari hack -- until Safari 1.3 (aka,
Safari 2.0) came out with the case-sensitivity thing fixed. (Mostly
fixed: the alternate hack still catches Safari, but also catches
Mozilla older than 1.7.) As a result, I think this line of thinking is
dead, but you're free to tinker with it.
This hack still seems to work, although it doesn't validate:
html*[class~=foo] {
/* rules */
}
This shows some of the folly of using hacks for browsers currently
under development.
--
Ben Curtis : webwright
bivia : a personal web studio
http://www.bivia.com
v: (818) 507-6613
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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[WSG] very frustrated
Hello, I had spend a lot of time building a site with pure css and used a container template based on the custom corners method from ala. I got a lot of help here and i was happy with the design and at the ease of udating a site where the content is separated from the design. So today i sent my front end code to the asp programmer to tie into our dynamically driven content database. Contrary to what he had be telling me previously - He basically said that he cant mark up the css layout because its to complicated and will have to rebuild a large portion of it with tables. Im disgusted but i have to live with it. just needed some place to rant about this. Just curious-Does anyone here do asp and if so would using the ala custom corners method for a basic wrapper/template be very difficult to convert over to asp? http://www.alistapart.com/articles/customcorners/ -kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
I'd been recommended 80% as an ideal default text size by a wide variety of people, including, IIRC, the WAI. How would you recommend solving the problem? I would set the font size to 62.5% in the body tag. Then I would use Ems to set the sizes of all my fonts on the page, By setting the font-size to 62.5% means that if you enter 1.0em this will = 10px, same as 1.1em = 11px, 1.2em = 12px and so forth, so its easier to work out Ems that way, they make more sense. Also if you now try and set internet explorer to smallest setting your text is still readable. Same as if you went to the largest. This is what I recommend. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] make poverty history website
It all works in firefox for me. But then I have 1.0.4, also works fin in Opera 8 a joyful browser, better thab ff, apart from the absence of extensions Just want to clarify that I did not work on the MPH site, I am using simular approach to them in terms of displaying flash content. I find it really nifty and by far the best approach do any members of the list see any draw backs to the use of flashObject? is there a better method of putting flash in pages? thanks SS Mike Foskett wrote: Hi Sam, Is there a reason why http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/video/?pageVideo=/flv/clickuk512k.flv does not display in Firefox v1.0.3 ? Reading the associated articles it should do, and when it doesn't it should display an alternative text version, though MPH probably forgot. Mike 2k:)2 -Original Message- From: sam sherlock [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2005 17:13 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] make poverty history website Hi List, I visited the www.makepovertyhistory.org website last night and was pleased to see that the site uses Geoff Sterns FlashObject. This seems to reaffirm my opinion that the flashObject method of placing flash in the page is more approprate than the MM object / embed code and flash satay or other technics used elsewhere. I consider this to be a real world issue in developing modern websites, standard or otherwise since flash and rich media is often an important part of the build of the site (clients and user like it when it works well) So I wanted to know what the list thinks of the flashObject technic and other alternatives out there? More info can be found on Flash Object here: http://blog.deconcept.com/2005/03/31/proper-flash-embedding-flashobject-best-practices/ Flash Satay http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ sIFR http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2004/08/sifr atb SS ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Is there no standard way then to play an audio file (say mp3 for arguments sake) using the object tag? Is the only standard way to just link to it using a href=file.mp3? Stephen - Original Message - From: Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: RE: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way? I completely agree, use Flash. I'd say the same for video too, for the same reasons. Why: One solution multiple platforms. Saturation on all computers is over 90%. That's more than any browser. No platform compatibility issues Mac / PC. No browser issues Firefox / IE / Netscape / Opera. With a single start / stop button in Flash, alongside a link to download the file. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Mike Foskett wrote: I completely agree, use Flash. I'd say the same for video too, for the same reasons. Why: One solution multiple platforms. Saturation on all computers is over 90%. That's more than any browser. What data is this statistic based on? Regards Geoff Deering ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Hi Stephen,
As stated the best method to embed sound is using Flash but there are other
techniques.
This is the last version I used for playing a single MP3 with a play / stop
button:
In XHTML:
object id=sound classid=clsid:22D6F312-B0F6-11D0-94AB-0080C74C7E95
height=25px width=25px
param name=AutoStart value=0 /
param name=ShowAudioControls value=0 /
param name=ShowTracker value=0 /
param name=filename value=/sounds/systole.mp3 /
embed id=sound2 src=/sounds/systole.mp3 controls=smallconsole
autostart=false align=absbottom height=18 width=18/embed
/object
In CSS:
#sound {display:inline; margin:0 0.5em}
Personally it's an awful method, and it does not validate.
I'd wait for Patrick Lauke's example then look at Sam Sherlock's post make
poverty history for methods to embed it into a page.
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: 02476 416994 Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
Fax: 02476 411410
www.becta.org.uk
-Original Message-
From: Stevio [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 17 May 2005 18:30
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Is there no standard way then to play an audio file (say mp3 for arguments
sake) using the object tag?
Is the only standard way to just link to it using a href=file.mp3?
Stephen
- Original Message -
From: Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:14 PM
Subject: RE: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
I completely agree, use Flash.
I'd say the same for video too, for the same reasons.
Why:
One solution multiple platforms.
Saturation on all computers is over 90%. That's more than any browser.
No platform compatibility issues Mac / PC.
No browser issues Firefox / IE / Netscape / Opera.
With a single start / stop button in Flash, alongside a link to download the
file.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 17/05/2005
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
**
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
www.mimesweeper.com
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RE: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Geoff, Stat based on these figures from Macromedia: Macromedia Flash by Version March 2005 V. 2 V. 3 V. 4 V. 5 V. 6 * V. 7 * US 98.3% 98.2% 98.1% 97.8% 96.8%90.0% Canada 98.8% 98.7% 98.7% 98.6% 97.0%90.3% Europe 99.3% 99.2% 99.2% 99.2% 97.7%92.3% Asia 97.1% 97.1% 96.8% 96.6% 93.9%86.3% Not an exactitude as far as the browser was concerned but you get the idea. Mike 2k:)2 -Original Message- From: Geoff Deering [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 17 May 2005 18:57 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way? Mike Foskett wrote: I completely agree, use Flash. I'd say the same for video too, for the same reasons. Why: One solution multiple platforms. Saturation on all computers is over 90%. That's more than any browser. What data is this statistic based on? Regards Geoff Deering ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS for changeing colors
I do not know if this is off topic. Can CSS be used to change background and foreground colors to create a more accessible web site.? If so, how? Or please direct me to a web site that discusses the topic. Angus MacKinnon MacKinnon Crest Saying Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat English - Fortune Assists The Daring Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. 2nd Vice president Choroideremia Research Foundation Canada Inc. 1st Vice President http://www.choroideremia.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] apostrophes, and the like.
Thanks all - I got 'Tidy' and found that very useful. However, in this instance I am copying and pasting from Word, so a special thanks, Kay, for that wisdom. I never use design view either, so I didn't know about that valuable trick! Brilliant! Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk - Original Message - From: Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] apostrophes, and the like. If you use Dreamweaver and paste your content into design view, all entities are automatically converted for you. It's about the only thing I use design view for! -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
On Tue, 17 May 2005 14:13:50 -0400, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stat based on these figures from Macromedia: I might add that these are merely posted on MM's site. The study was independent. http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/ There is a link that speaks to the company that did the survey... -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist mlinc.com -- www.browsehappy.com www.opera.com Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS for changeing colors
The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store wrote: I do not know if this is off topic. Can CSS be used to change background and foreground colors to create a more accessible web site.? If so, how? Or please direct me to a web site that discusses the topic. Alternative styles article: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/alternate/ FWIW, I use session variables to plug the correct styles sheet into my documents. It goes like this (ASP): @import url(/css/generic.css); @import url(/css/%= variable %.css); That variable can target any files (for contrast, text-size, background images...) Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
Tom Hamshere wrote:
On 5/17/05, Felix Miata [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Because of your 80% default font size, I have to zoom at least one
step to use those Flights selects. They're already messed up at that
point. After I zoom once more, it's a serious mess. Depending on which
browser I open it in, it may or may not display any of your More search
options.
I'd been recommended 80% as an ideal default text size by a wide
variety of people, including, IIRC, the WAI.
If from WAI it must be some misinterpreation. What URL makes such claim?
I made Google search the site, but was unable to find any such
recommendation. OTOH, its home page's http://www.w3.org/WAI/ CSS
http://www.w3.org/WAI/style/waihome3.css has only two font size rules:
H2 { font-size: 140%;}
.policyfooter {font-size: 90%;}
Bobby seems to have been replaced by Webexact, which on
http://webxact3.watchfire.com/themes/standard-en-us/help/HIDD_WDContent_G104.html
contains the following: ...define your base font size as 100%, which
will cause it to be the user's preferred size.
http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size says: Avoid sizes in em smaller
than 1em for text body...
On http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao/ John Allsop writes: If you
don't set a size for the text in the BODY, then the text of the BODY
will be the size that the reader has chosen as their default size.
Already we are aiding adaptability of our page, simply by doing nothing!
You might say but the text looks too big if I just leave it like
that. Make it smaller then. But *in your browser*.
How would you recommend solving the problem?
Here's the real problem:
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/evang-part.html#note2
If you haven't seen it already, read: Another way to think about
font-size control at
http://css.nu/articles/font-analogy.html
--
Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made
that has been made.John 1:3 NIV
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/
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Re: [WSG] very frustrated
On 5/17/05, Kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just curious-Does anyone here do asp and if so would using the ala custom corners method for a basic wrapper/template be very difficult to convert over to asp? While a competent server-side programmer in any language should be able to do almost anything in terms of layout, I am always cautious when using alistapart's custom corners technique, as it's unfortunately very easy to break. I have used it on several sites - in fact including one I did last weekend - but I would be wary of handing a site over to someone else that used that technique. The main problems I find are that if your content becomes very long or very short, the panels start breaking up, plus resizing browser text size can cause havoc. I've also had some problems with visual artifacts appearing in IE6. By the sounds of it, your programmer simply doesn't want to be bothered with a complex layout that's out of their tabular comfort-zone. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] very frustrated
This may help: Transparent custom corners and borders Rounded corners, no extra markup, script required. Now that were finally embracing JavaScript, all those complicated markup kludges are a thing of the past. http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200505/transparent_custom_corners_and_borders/ On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 14:27, Kvnmcwebn wrote: Hello, I had spend a lot of time building a site with pure css and used a container template based on the custom corners method from ala. I got a lot of help here and i was happy with the design and at the ease of udating a site where the content is separated from the design. So today i sent my front end code to the asp programmer to tie into our dynamically driven content database. Contrary to what he had be telling me previously - He basically said that he cant mark up the css layout because its to complicated and will have to rebuild a large portion of it with tables. Im disgusted but i have to live with it. just needed some place to rant about this. Just curious-Does anyone here do asp and if so would using the ala custom corners method for a basic wrapper/template be very difficult to convert over to asp? http://www.alistapart.com/articles/customcorners/ -kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Bruce Morrison designIT http://www.designit.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] very frustrated
At 04:17 PM 5/17/2005, Bruce Morrison wrote: This may help: Transparent custom corners and borders Rounded corners, no extra markup, script required. Now that we¢re finally embracing JavaScript, all those complicated markup kludges are a thing of the past. http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200505/transparent_custom_corners_and_borders/ There's also this: Stu Nicholl's CSS Playground Snazzy Borders Rounded borders without images http://www.stunicholls.myby.co.uk/boxes/snazzy.html based on Nifty Corners by Alessandro Fulciniti: http://pro.html.it/esempio/nifty/ updated to javascript: More Nifty Corners di Alessandro Fulciniti http://pro.html.it/articoli/id_599/idcat_31/pag_1/pag.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] help with Linux version of the colour contrast analyser 1.0
We have had a number of requests for a linux version of the colour contrast analyser [CCA], a freeware tool,(http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/contrast_analyser/index.html), but do not have the skills to do this ourselves, is anybody who does have the skills ,or knows someone, interested? if so please email me... The CCA is written in delphi. with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] search field image alignment--help
Quite easily:
CSS:
#searchSubmit {
border: none;
background: url(filename.gif) no-repeat;
}
XHTML:
input type=submit id=searchSubmit /
Of course you will need to modify this to suit your site.
PS: the code you just showed is missing an equals sign ('=') in the 'name'
attribute. A simple run through the validator would pick this up. Please get
into the habit of checking your own code before sending it to the group.
- Original Message -
From: Kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] search field image alignment--help
| Hi,
|
| It does needs an action so Ive redone it like this:
|
| input type= image class=fimg nameSubmit value=submit
src=go.gif/
|
| This probably wont work and anyway it wrecks the positioning again.
|
| How can i use an input type = submit with a background image?
|
| thanks
| -kevin
|
|
| I think what Patrick is trying to say is you should us a submit button
to
| add some 'action' to your form. Currently it won't do anything unless
you
| add some JavaScript.
|
| This will also further separate your content from presentation by
moving
| the styled image to your CSS (as a background-attachment on the 'submit'
| button).
|
|
| **
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|
| See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
| for some hints on posting to the list getting help
| **
|
|
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Re: [WSG] apostrophes, and the like.
I have written my little typograph in JavaScript. It is not tested enough, but it can do all this things plus add nbsp after short words (like a, an, the, on, of, etc). http://siter.com.au/dmitry/typo/ Hope it will help someone ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Tom Livingston wrote: On Tue, 17 May 2005 14:13:50 -0400, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stat based on these figures from Macromedia: I might add that these are merely posted on MM's site. The study was independent. http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/flashplayer/ There is a link that speaks to the company that did the survey... Can someone please educate me to the claim here; http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/survey/ that; In March 2005, NPD Research, the parent company of MediaMetrix, conducted a study to determine what percentage of Web browsers have Macromedia Flash pre-installed. The results show that 98.3% of Web users can experience Macromedia Flash content without having to download and install a player. 1) I have never come across a browser, which installed with Macromedia Flash pre-installed. 2) I never knew that 98.3% of Web users can experience Macromedia Flash content without having to download and install a player. If they are coming from the standpoint that Flash was already installed (by someone), that to me seems to not be clearly stating the whole picture they are basing their scenario on and not presenting it in a true objective fashion. Last time I did a check on a series of browsers for the accuracy of HTTP_ACCEPT (a few years ago), it was quite unreliable. I had flash installed on all browsers, but not all of them reported this to the server, yet it was registered in their plugins. If there are more reliable methods of detecting plugins I appreciate people sharing them. Then there are the users out there that have flash installed and other 3rd party software to stop Flash from playing, so that they can control it. I agree with the suggestions to the various implementations of Flash to solve the original problem posted to this site, I think when all is taken into account, usability, design, accessibility, that is the best strategy. But statistics can be used to serve misinformation, and what I see on the Macromedia site gives me no reason to have any confidence in an accurate evaluation via clear and thorough methodology. Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
Felix Miata wrote: You might say but the text looks too big if I just leave it like that. Make it smaller then. But *in your browser*. As idealistic as it sounds, the devil's advocate counter question: are you going to tell every single user of your site to do that in their browser? because sure enough, if they set their size to small by default, 70 odd percent of the other sites which use relative base sizes lower than 100% will look too small... -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
On 5/18/05, Geoff Deering [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) I have never come across a browser, which installed with Macromedia Flash pre-installed. IE6 comes with Flash player pre-installed. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Kay Smoljak wrote: On 5/18/05, Geoff Deering [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) I have never come across a browser, which installed with Macromedia Flash pre-installed. IE6 comes with Flash player pre-installed. All versions, or a specific implementation/installation? Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
PLease unsubscribe me from mailing list. sachin wagh Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
On 5/18/05, Geoff Deering [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IE6 comes with Flash player pre-installed. All versions, or a specific implementation/installation? I can't say for sure, but my feeling is that it's all versions. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Kay Smoljak wrote: On 5/18/05, Geoff Deering [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IE6 comes with Flash player pre-installed. All versions, or a specific implementation/installation? I can't say for sure, but my feeling is that it's all versions. Well, I have installed WinXP (initial release) and the recent release with SP2, and downloaded IE6 on a number of occassions and installed it on other versions of windows, and not one of them has had Flash installed. It may come with an OEM install, but I have never seen it come with IE6. Also, I have found that even when it is installed, and the user has installed something like Crazy Browser so they have a tabbed version of IE, for some reason Flash does not load. Geoff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
G'day IE6 comes with Flash player pre-installed. I can't say for sure, but my feeling is that it's all versions. Although I don't see how the user base of a particular product is standards related, here's some info that might help. I have just (today) installed (OEM) Windows 2003 Small Business Server on a new machine. It has IE6 but it does not have Flash. Perhaps some other versions do have it, but don't assume that the visitor's computer has any plug-ins installed. Some, perhaps many, won't. If you're going to use proprietary tools/plug-ins, at least provide a fall-back mechanism, so your site doesn't fail accessibility standards/guidelines. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
