Martin,
Be careful with DocTypes.
NS6 adds white-space after objects.
Anymore than that I'd need an example url.
mike 2k:)2
-Original Message-
From: Martin Chapman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 07 June 2004 16:45
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] NS6 indiscrepancies
Hi All
Rarvan,
Two quick points:
1. Please use % or ems for stating font-size.
2. Please separate adjacent links with a printable character. Or recode them as a
list.
Nice site keep it up.
mike 2k:)2
-Original Message-
From: Razvan Pop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 June 2003 16:48
There is a fair point in there.
We need people to bend, stretch and break standards in order to push out the
boundaries of the technologies we use.
Who would be completely happy with the Standards set in 1992?
Didn't the late nineties Browser wars come up with non-standard stuff that's now
Patrick,
I have an interest in this too.
I coded a site (valid XHTML v1.0 strict) at the weekend that works in IE from v3+ and
Netscape from v2+.
It should have been fine on a PDA but it crashed the browser (Internet Explorer).
And that's before I add any J/S functionality.
Today I've
Erm,
Not very accessible. No keyboard access I could figure out.
Would it not be better to use inline frames and apply IE only CSS to the scrollbars?
mike 2k:)2
-Original Message-
From: Tim Lucas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 June 2004 16:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
Hi,
These days I code for Mozilla.
Then iron out the IE incompatibilities.
mike 2k:)2
**
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
Hanni,
IE4 isn't a complete horror story though if you don't support Netscape v4.7 why
support I.E.?
Personally I supply style sheets to I.E. but not to Netscape 4.7 it's too buggy.
Though I would find it acceptable to not give I.E. a style sheet.
mike 2k:)2
That was good,
well while the server held out anyway
mike 2k:)2
-Original Message-
From: Andy Budd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 01 July 2004 09:52
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Quick Accessibility Quiz
I've just posted up a quick accessibility quiz on my site.
Title: Message
Hi
all,
I'm about to rewrite
the technical standardsfor theacceptance of external, and
independent,web resources.
At present they are
only guidelines and they suggest:
Compliance to WAI
priority one (plus a little).
W3C validated
coding with allowable exceptions.
Peeps,
I learnt HTML with Dreamweaver v2 but moved up to a text editor (Textpad).
This only changed recently when I bought a Powerbook.
I needed an interface that was basically the same on Mac and PC.
Sadly, that meant reverting to Dreamweaver 2004 MX code view.
Six months now and I'm still only
or too little?
cheers.
mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards Accessibility Officer
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (BECTa)
Milburn Hill
Thanks for the response Andy.
Great quiz by the way. Made me think and laugh.
You are suggesting the guidelines as they stand now with cases of must replacing
should.
The problem is they're set too high.
If applied strictly then even the DRC's website would fail.
Here's an extended scenario:
Peeps,
I thought I knew what I was doing with headers, now I'm getting confused.
My XHTML docs are structured like this:
titlePage name - Site name/title
h1Site name/h1 [not visible 2nd part of the title -
Placed behind an image of the same]
h1Content (Page name)
Drew, Mike,
So, if I get this right then technically speaking:
titlePage name - Site name/title
divSite name/div [not visible 2nd part of the title -
Placed behind an image of the same]
h1Content (Page name) heading/h1 [visible 1st part of the title]
h2/h2
for clearing up these issues guys.
mike foskett
**
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received
Gerhard,
You could try the method I've used previously.
The top link expands sub links. Works with JavaScript off and is accessible.
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd;
html xmlns=http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml; xml:lang=en
Dan,
I'm gonna have to spend time digesting that article.
Thanks for reminding me why I like this forum.
mike 2k:)2
**
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the
Dan,
Sorry I meant it'll take time to absorb the JavaScript closures article.
I'll need to comprehend that before moving to your example.
The techniques used I found very strange. I sort of follow, but failed to comprehend.
If you don't mind there'll be some questions at the end of the week?
BTW
Hi all,
Does anyone happen to know exactly when a graphic is loaded from a CSS description?
E.G. Assuming different files for: XHTML and CSS.
XHTML:
Page1.html only uses #bannerpage1
Page2.html only uses #bannerpage2
When Page1 is first loaded it loads the global CSS which contains:
Hi all,
This is how I achieve the effect but using a different method:
a {color:#009; text-decoration:none; border-bottom:1px dotted
#ccf; padding-bottom:1px}
a:link {color:#009; border-bottom:1px solid #ccf}
a:visited {color:#606; border-bottom:1px
Thanks.
I thought it was the case until I received a report telling me my homepage was 115KB.
Another case of auto-generated reports getting it wrong.
Panic over.
mike 2k:)2
**
This email and any files transmitted with it
Here's a simple rule:
If it looks like a heading, table or list, then, most probably, it should be coded as
such.
- Fosketts rule 2.
Hope that helps.
mike 2k:)2
-Original Message-
From: Dan Webb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 29 July 2004 15:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
.
Consequently what should be on one line is on three. Not good.
Now I could insert nobr elements via the DOM but the idea leaves cold.
Any other suggestions?
mike foskett
http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
**
This email and any
What about http://www.sitepoint.com ?
That's as complicated a structure as any I've seen, and almost completely table-less.
mike foskett
http://www.webSemantics.co.uk/
-Original Message-
From: Neerav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 August 2004 12:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject
with the effect as they were only single-page fun sites.
http://www.2kool2.com/2kool2/
http://www.2kool2.com/senuik/
I'd be very interested in any solutions anyone comes up with.
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink mike foskett /marquee/blink
http://www.webSemantics.co.uk [almost complete
Function(call)}
}
Hope that helps
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink mike foskett /marquee/blink
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: Justin French [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 August 2004 07:22
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] DOM
that helps
mike foskett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
-Original Message-
From: John Horner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 August 2004 05:27
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Div-based design example
A friend of mine is working on a div-based design, and as far as I
Kay,
There are good examples at www.redmelon.net and a generator at
http://www.inknoise.com/...
hope it helps
Mike
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.webSemantics.co.uk [hosted almost ready]
-Original Message-
From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 August 2004 06:07
Lisa,
I've been doing a little work on this subject:
Accessible form guidelines.
Attaching focus to objects via with JS via the DOM.
Accessible expanded help.
It's still a work in progress (not that clear) but I'm happy to take critiques,
suggestions, improvements, rewordings, e.t.c
Hi Anura,
Personally, I go with floats every time.
Absolute positioning relies on the display size too much.
It also allows coders to apply fixes to the document flow.
Have you considered the documents appearance on a 160px wide PDA?
How about a Braille reader?
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
On Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004, at 18:49 Australia/Sydney, Mike Foskett
wrote:
Have you considered the documents appearance on a 160px wide PDA? How
about a Braille reader?
Surely you wouldn't deliver the layout CSS to either of these
devices... semantically structured text and (for the PDA) minimal
://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 25 August 2004 11:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Absolute positioning vs floats
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:49:52 +0100, Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Personally, I go with floats
Hi all,
The DRC's videos are done using a Flash front-end.
Quite liked the method and currently recommending it.
http://www.drc-gb.org/citizenship/talkvideos/index.asp
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: Hugh Todd
Just checked it in:
PC: Opera v7, Firefox v1, IE v6.
Mac: Safari v1, firefox v1, Netscape v7, IE v5.2
All displayed just fine.
I'd remind you to replace some of the alt tags though (intro1.jpg etc).
And perhaps consider adding house doctor to the initial h1.
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail:
Hi Sajith,
You'll find that there isn't currently a method for insetting Flash or other media
that:
1. Validates to XHTML
2. Displays reliably cross browser, cross platform.
Currently the best advice is to validate media content pages as HTML v4 transitional.
The other option, which is
Clarify the destination.
So if there is more than one set of content B. otherwise A.
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: john [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 27 October 2004 09:38
To:
Try a definition list.
dl
dtimg //dt
ddaddress 1/dd
ddPhone number/dd
...
/dl
Float the dt to the left and clear:
dt {float:left; clear:left}
That should sort it semantically.
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
Hi,
I'm having difficulties with that IE shift bug thing.
The one where the content moves when you hover over a link.
I've tried adding _height:100%; _line-height:100%; _width:100%
To every element in the div to no avail.
Example here: http://www.websemantics.co.uk/workshop/sessions/session2/
Hi,
I'm having difficulties with that IE shift bug thing.
The one where the content moves when you hover over a link.
I've tried adding _height:100%; _line-height:100%; _width:100% To every element in the
div to no avail.
Example here: http://www.websemantics.co.uk/workshop/sessions/session2/
Thanks Bennie,
That's saved hours of work.
Just changing vertical %'s to em's. It seems to be working.
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: Bennie Shepherd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 28 October 2004 14:41
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike Foskett
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] How-to: Create a list with pictures / detail?
Quoting Mike Foskett
Try a definition list.
dl
dtimg //dt
ddaddress 1/dd
ddPhone number/dd
Try this:
Accessible usable forms: Guidelines, examples and JavaScript tricks.
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/form_guidelines/
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: Patrick
I've just finished some interactive tutorials for content developers which
may be of use. It only covers the basics but does get the point across (I
think).
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/workshop/sessions/session2/
Also you might need greater detail on forms:
Nice one
Just getting the boss to agree to pay and then I'm happy
mike
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational
Using a table is not an issue, form data is tabular.
For accessibility I'd suggest using a label on each input but hide it visually
using one of the standard techniques.
table id=grouptravel summary=Group travel quote border=0
thead
tr
th class=hidden scope=colGroup/th
th
a table in a form?
Mike Foskett wrote:
Using a table is not an issue, form data is tabular.
You say that like it's fact when it's really a matter of opinion.
Personally I'd argue that a form is not a means of displaying tabular
data, it's an input mechanism.
It seems crazy to me that people
Ted:
Don't hide labels with display:none. Screen readers don't see it either.
I'd suggest something more like:
.hidden {width:0; height:0; overflow:hidden; font-size:1px}
Or use a method that shifts the text off screen to the left.
Maybe consider the approach below even if it has too many
Ted,
From a screen reader point of view the user has to have titles switched on
which is not too much to ask.
Personally I'd shorten the title, it does not need to say Enter the, keep
them as brief as possible to the point of being curt.
Otherwise you can imagine the amount of excess noise that
://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: Andy Budd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 January 2005 09:55
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Can I use a table in a form?
On 12 Jan 2005, at 18:25, Mike Foskett wrote:
Creating a method of output without
Hi Ryan,
I have a list of form guidelines including links to resources which may be of
use:
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/form_guidelines/
Regards
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
sarcasm
Nice of them to continue support for Mac IE.
/sarcasm
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
**
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Ron,
I agree with your summary except for More than four choices, use a select
menu.
Surely it is better to show as many options as possible at the same time?
Stating four as a reasonable limit seems a little low.
Although with select inputs I would state Selects with less than 5 options
David,
http://www.w3bdevil.com/turkeys/
With a quick once over the only issues I noticed were accessibility ones:
1. Colour contrast appears insufficient? White text on light-grey background.
2.2 Ensure that foreground and background colour combinations provide
sufficient contrast
=javascript:showhide('submenu1');Technology/dt
Though I'm sure the JavaScript could be cut further.
Regards
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: 02476 416994 Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday
to
different gamma settings.
So avoid subtle colour effects, they don't always work.
mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
to do with possible litigation if they are incorrect in their
analysis?
These are just my thoughts on the matter and are in no way conclusive.
mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility
mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science
issues that I've not considered?
regards
mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology
/* content specific area */
#footer
/* late additions are added at the end with author / date / page details */
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia
as a tool.
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road
.
With a single start / stop button in Flash, alongside a link to download the
file.
IMHO
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
Hi Sam,
Is there a reason why
http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/video/?pageVideo=/flv/clickuk512k.flv does
not display in Firefox v1.0.3 ?
Reading the associated articles it should do, and when it doesn't it should
display an alternative text version, though MPH probably forgot.
Mike
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: 02476 416994 Ext
@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Playing a sound file - what is the best way?
Mike Foskett wrote:
I completely agree, use Flash.
I'd say the same for video too, for the same reasons.
Why:
One solution multiple platforms.
Saturation on all computers is over 90%. That's more than any browser
repeat id's.
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: 02476 416994 Ext 3342 [Tuesday
Neerav,
It doesn't work on a Mac (Safari or IE).
It's probably best to convert it to Flash anyway.
Check out Swishvideo for a quick and easy method: http://swishzone.com/
Regards
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Hi y'all,
I rewrote part of my site at the weekend and coded XHTML examples in pre
elements.
The width of the content area is 400px.
I need to display examples of code that are wider.
Keeping the white space is very useful too.
Example:
pre
#menu span {position:absolute; visibility:hidden;
-Original Message-
From: Philippe Wittenbergh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 June 2005 03:29
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Fair usage of Pre and a Mac issue with it
On 13 Jun 2005, at 7:46 pm, Mike Foskett wrote:
3. Why doesn't Mac IE v5.2 display the content
You might find this useful to look at:
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller
Gives light detail on why certain settings are used.
The latest version:
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#levellerupdate
It requires text-align:center adding
://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 June 2005 19:32
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: Mike Foskett
Subject: RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Hi Mike,
Great set of CSS code snippets
]
Sent: 21 June 2005 16:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Cc: Mike Foskett
Subject: RE: [WSG] Class Discusion: Centering a Fixed Width Layout
Good morning Mike,
I must respectfully disagree. I'm looking at my client site in FF, Opera,
Mozilla and Netscape as I compose this reply, and the page
Hi all,
I've just inspected my site in IE 5.0 for the first time since development last
year.
I was amazed to see errors creeping in, even though it's valid (X)HTML.
The right-hand column has divs which do not display in IE v5.0 on a PC unless
hovered over.
They disappear again if scrolled
Snippet taken from:
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/useful_css_snippets/#leveller
Where there's a fuller description and a few other snippets.
On full width pages:
* {margin:0; padding:0}
html {height:100%; font-size:100.01%}
body {
min-height:101%;
font:100.01%/130%
There should be a border:0 in there too, but I seriously don't recommend trying
it.
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
site: http://www.webSemantics.co.uk
/marquee/blink
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Krespanis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 06 July 2005
Hi Felix,
What would you recommend as a Verdana equivalent / replacement font on a Linux
machine?
It has to be a prevalent font with similar readability.
From that I'd perhaps suggest:
Font-family: Verdana [PC], [Linux], Helvetica [Mac], sans-serif
Or fallback to:
Font-family: Verdana,
Using a separate print style sheet:
p {text-align:justify}
Should do the trick but be sure the print.css file follows the default in the
HTML:
style type=text/css media=screen@import /styles/display.css;/style
link rel=stylesheet type=text/css media=print href=/styles/print.css
/
if the tag is removed the body text becomes selectable.
Has anyone come across this issue?
Is there a solution?
Regards
Mike
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing
Ed, do you have a link or a name explaining this IE feature / bug?
Regards
Mike
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational
ave a link or a name explaining this IE
feature / bug?
Regards
Mike
________
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing
Consultant
Multimedia Publishing and Production
British Educational Communications and Techn
Ted,
You need to remove the onload function from the HTML and place it in a separate
JavaScript file.
script type=text/javascript src=scripts/javascript.js/script
Put an onload handler in the JS file:
function addEvent(func) {
if (!document.getElementById |
with noscript section:
script
write link with new window clause
/script
noscript
Normal link
/noscript
Regards
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Communications
Hi all,
I've just developed a date picker calendar for use on an intranet.
http://www.websemantics.co.uk/tutorials/accessible_date_picker_calendar/
Could someone give it a once over and check it semantically and for
accessibility please?
Cheers
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink webSemantics
Hi Stuart,
The screen reader will get the css, if JavaScript is enabled, which is the norm.
Though I point out that styling is not really essential to a screen reader.
Regards
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Communications
British Educational Communications and Technology Agency (Becta)
Milburn Hill Road, Science Park, Coventry CV4 7JJ
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: 02476 416994 Ext 3342 [Tuesday - Thursday]
Fax
Hi all,
I've just used a little absolute positioning inside an div for the first time
in years.
Is it common practice to add position:relative to the body element to get
relative objects to behave when resizing the browser?
During this project I also found a solution to centre content that
Hi Jay,
I would recommend http://onlinetools.org.
Clean unobtrusive scripts, very nice.
Though it obviously depends on what you are looking for.
mike 2k:)2
marqueeblink
mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
work: http://webSemantics.co.uk
rest: http://2kool2.com
play:
I need some help urgently.
Just downloaded the latest release v1.5 and Flash Player v8.
Now my Flash audio stream buttons no longer display, just macromedia's f.
What's happened? It appears perfectly on my PC version.
http://bangersandmashed.com
The Macromedia site reports The Flash Player as
it bothers you.
Mime type worked well. Will probably start using it myself.
Regards
Mike 2k:)2
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Communications
British Educational Communications
Hey Kev,
#navcontainershort a.one:hover {}
#navcontainershort a.two:hover {}
Should access them specifically
Mike
Mike Foskett
Web Standards, Accessibility Testing Consultant
Communications
British
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