Re: [WSG] Source order of content / navigation
An interesting discussion... Back in 2006, Roger Hudson, Lisa Miller and I conducted testing on three aspects associated with screen reader use (skip links, source order and structural lables). The findings regarding source order: t appears that when visiting a web page, most, if not all, screen reader users expect at least the main site navigation to be presented before the content of the page. There appears to be little evidence to support the view that screen reader users would prefer to have the content presented first, or find sites easier to use when this occurs. It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are still developing their skills with the technology. It is probably desirable however, to present the content of the page before extraneous information, such as advertisements and related links, as well as the page footer. Interpret as you see fit :) Russ On 06/06/2012, at 8:35 AM, Kevin Rapley wrote: I have started a new thread for this discussion, as not to hijack the thread on skip links. Thanks for the reply Steve. As I said, it is another school of thought (not necessarily my own). I wouldn’t use content first source ordering for commercial implementations as the overhead of relocating items in CSS far outweighs any accessibility benefits (at this time). However, with newer layout methods on the horizon, such as CSS flex-box, where reordering source order will be far simpler, this is a very real and worthwhile possibility. I disagree that it is really bad practice. As mentioned, users of assistive technologies will rarely read a page in a linear fashion. WCAG 2 likes to contradict itself (but I am sure you knew that already: WCAG 2.0, includes Success Criterion 2.4.3, which states: 2.4.3 - Blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units are implemented so that they can be bypassed. (Level 2) WCAG 2.0 - Guideline 2.4.3 The document, Understanding WCAG 2.0 (Working Draft 23 November 2005), includes the following as one of the techniques that can be used to meet Success Criterion 2.4.3: Structuring the content so the main content comes first (in structure - but the default presentation may be a different order), and adding links to the blocks of repeated content. On 5 June 2012 22:57, Steve Green steve.gr...@testpartners.co.uk wrote: I do not recommend putting the navigation after the content. In fact I would go as far as to say it’s a really bad practice because it violates every user’s expectation of where the navigation will be. Using CSS to position it above the content makes things even worse because the tab order no longer follows the visual order. The Web Content Accessibility Guidelines specifically state that the DOM order should match the visual order – see http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/C27 I have no problem with the ‘Return to top of page’ link, although the purists would argue that it is merely replicating the function of the Home key. Of course tablets and mobile phones don’t have a Home key, which sort of undermines that argument. Steve From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Rapley Sent: 05 June 2012 22:37 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL] I agree with the consensus that less is more with the skip navigation links at the top of the document. “Skip to main content” in the majority of cases will be all you need. If you are getting to a point where by rights you need a skip link, to skip the list of skip links, as they have grown so long you know you are following a bad path ;) Another school of thinking is to write the HTML source order so that navigation appears after the content, and use CSS to relocate the menu to the top of the page for sighted users. Of course you would still benefit from a skip link at the start of the navigation menu to skip past it/return to start of content. Note, it is a common misconception that users of assistive technologies linearly read a web page, when in fact the tools they have at their disposal allow them to traverse a page in multiple different ways. For instance, they can call out a dialog which lists all of the links on the page, or gain context by traversing a semantic document tree of the nested headings on the page. In these contexts, skip navigation is largely useless. This may be overkill, I will be interested to hear opinions, but I also place a note with ability to return to the top of the page too: div class=accessibility role=note
Re: [WSG] Source order of content / navigation
ooops. Reference: http://usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm#conclusion t appears that when visiting a web page, most, if not all, screen reader users expect at least the main site navigation to be presented before the content of the page. There appears to be little evidence to support the view that screen reader users would prefer to have the content presented first, or find sites easier to use when this occurs. It is our view, that a continuation of the practice of placing navigation before the content of the page will benefit some screen reader users, in particular those users who are still developing their skills with the technology. It is probably desirable however, to present the content of the page before extraneous information, such as advertisements and related links, as well as the page footer. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WCAG 2.0 compliance and best practise on the Skip to function [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
In order to comply with Success Criterion 2.4.1 Bypass Blocks – you must provide a mechanism to “bypass blocks of content that are repeated on multiple Web pages. (Level A) One of the “sufficient techniques” recommended by the W3C for bypassing blocks is the use of skip links. http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/G1.html Aria Landmarks are great for some user types and well supported by JAWS, NVDA, OSX VoiceOver (reasonably well supported by WindowEyes). However, these landmark roles do not help those who may not use a mouse for a variety of reasons (such as some sort of motor skill issue etc). So, using a combination of skip links and landmarks may be better. A lot of mixed opinions on skip links but some general principles 1. include skip links if at all possible 2. keep them simple - like a simple skip to content only 3. if possible make them visible 4. if you cannot make them visible, make them focus/active visible: http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/example-skip/03.htm Be aware that some browsers don't play well with skip links. Thanks Russ On 05/06/2012, at 2:49 PM, Blumer, Luke wrote: Hi All, We are currently in the process of redesigning our website and are looking into the Skip to functionality. We are currently considering using: • Skip to Search • Skip to Primary Navigation • Skip to Secondary Navigation • Skip to Main Content • Skip to Sitemap We are wondering if there is any information on best practice for the Skip to function and whether there is a generally acceptable limit as to how many Skip to links should be used? We are also wondering whether we should be considering other ways for users to navigate around our pages such as AccessKey http://validator.w3.org/accesskeys.html and whether this technique should be used to reduce the number of Skip to links we have listed above? Is there any native browser functionality that performs any of these functions that we should account for? Thankyou in advance for any advice. Regards, Luke Blumer Web Project Officer | Corporate Relations Australian Taxation Office Phone: 02 6216 2970 ** IMPORTANT The information transmitted is for the use of the intended recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged material. Any review, re-transmission, disclosure, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited and may result in severe penalties. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the Privacy Hotline of the Australian Taxation Office, telephone 13 2869 and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What is the best element?
Your markup should work. For a detailed description, look at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3 HTML5 has also broadened out the use of the DL: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5-diff/ The dl element now represents an association list of name-value groups, and is no longer said to be appropriate for dialogue. http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/grouping-content.html#the-dl-element The dl element represents an association list consisting of zero or more name-value groups (a description list). Each group must consist of one or more names (dt elements) followed by one or more values (dd elements). Within a single dl element, there should not be more than one dt element for each name. Name-value groups may be terms and definitions, metadata topics and values, questions and answers, or any other groups of name-value data. HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Related content labelling and styling?
On 17/05/2012, at 4:23 AM, Rick Hill wrote: The ideal would be to position the related content at the bottom of the associate main content and then position it at the top right of the main content. So visually it would look the same but the HTML reading order and header nesting would be correct. We cannot find and CSS solution that will do that. Anyone? Isn't this a simple matter of playing with the containers and floats. Here is an example where four containers (col1, col2, col2a and col2b) match the nesting of yours, but the right column (in your case the column where you want the highlighted info) is last in the source order: http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/example-rick/ This is easily achieved by floating both col2a and col2b to the left HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Keyboard Tabbing no longer working in FF v11/Mac
user deleted. Ignore. New WSG system coming soon! On 04/04/2012, at 7:09 PM, sale.jordantradezone wrote: *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Keyboard Tabbing no longer working in FF v11/Mac
I wonder what might gone wrong with my FF, it focuses on input fields.: address url, google seach and the one in the page. I say you nuke your FF from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Possibly the best CSS framework ever?
On 4/1/2012 3:05 PM, Russ Weakley wrote: It's April 1st here in Australia :) Yes, I am well aware of that. Did not put two and two together. :p Apologies all who may have been confused! The MoreCSS framework is an April Fools Day gift to the web community from the folks at oxideinteractive *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Possibly the best CSS framework ever?
You have probably seen all sorts of CSS frameworks over the years... but is this the best CSS framework ever? http://morecss.org/ :) Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Possibly the best CSS framework ever?
It's April 1st here in Australia :) No need to use a CSS framework. It is not that hard to style things in CSS once you get the hang of it. Besides it is easier if you actually write less CSS to style a list of links as an example because if you go overboard with styling stuff you end up with clashes in your CSS and that can make things harder when re-designing. On 4/1/2012 1:27 PM, Russ Weakley wrote: You have probably seen all sorts of CSS frameworks over the years... but is this the best CSS framework ever? http://morecss.org/ :) Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG.
OK, we hear you all loud and clear and totally agree with all that has been said (and asked privately by others before). The fault is, of course, mine... putting off solving the WSG mail list issues... So here is a call out. We are thinking of moving the entire system over to mailman. We want your help! Have you had experience with migrating large lists to mailman? Do you have other options you think may be better? Do you have access to web hosting for a large and high traffic mail list? Then email me offlist. Please hold off further discussions on-list. I will announce the changes as soon as we have plans locked down and a schedule for the changes in place. Thanks all for giving me the kick in the bum to get this happening! Russ On 19/03/2012, at 8:21 PM, Steve Green wrote: You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. That's exactly what the new European cookie law is going to force you to do. -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Jim Croft Sent: 19 March 2012 03:10 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG - Time for a re-think on WSG. yes - it is no big deal as an individual act, but in aggregate contributes to the advere side of the S:N ratio. The fact that it is demonstrably totally unnecessary makes it all the more irritating. Yes, I could write a filter to catch these messages, but this is the 21st century, there are email transfer standards, we have 24 hr wireless pizza delivery, and I shouldn't have to. You wouldn't put up with a web page that forced you to read a short message and hit the delete key before seeing the rest of the page. Chances are you would probably not go there more than twice (the second time to confirm, 'are you for real?!'). If people are already at borderline S:N, 'a very small amount of time' is it all it is going to take to push them over the 'unsubscribe' edge and seek their web standards jollies elsewhere. Also, it is the professionalism thing... jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM, Jon Reece jon.re...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I don't mind deleting the few emails (relatively) that are out-of-office replies. If I did, I would probably just set up a filter since I'm using Gmail (and I'm pretty sure most popular email clients support advanced filters as well). I find that the very small amount of time it takes me to select the email, and then select Delete, is really nothing to complain about. Just my $0.02 - Jon On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Jim Croft jim.cr...@gmail.com wrote: It's not really a web standards issue, but the current acceptable standard for email list servers it to trap 'out of office' messages and /dev/null them with extreme prejudice. If the current list software can not do this, perhap it too should be /dev/null'd. I am subscribed to dozens of email lists and this is the only one that relays out of office spam. Not a good look for a group promoting quality and standards in communication. jim On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 9:52 AM, ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au wrote: rant After a while, we humans decide that small annoyances need to end and after hearing from an individual I don't know that I am off sick today on the WSG group, I have decided enough is enough. What Russ and his band of compatriots did back 15 years or so ago to create a group and spread the word has been fantastic howeever it needs a revival. The vast majority of us are techie, web developers who know a thing or two about great websites that are accessible. Isn't that what WSG is crying out for? Gopher and Archie have sadly gone and so should the current flavour of WSG. WSG could be reincarnated into a thing of beauty and a site to behold beacuse with HTML5, a sprinkling of accessibility knowledge and a bunch of us hacking away, we could show the world that sites can be accessible and uber-cool at the same time. Over to you... /rant PS Hope you're feeling better Ewen Hill Project Manager. ewen.h...@health.vic.gov.au _ This email contains confidential information intended only for the person named above and may be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or use of this information is prohibited. The Department provides no guarantee that this communication is free of virus or that it has not been intercepted or interfered with. If you have received this email in error or have any other concerns regarding its transmission, please notify postmas...@dhs.vic.gov.au ___ __
Re: [WSG] Style Sheet Query
Marvin, Could you paste any relevant CSS snippets into an email and post to the list as this may help us determine what you are currently doing and what you may want to do to solve the problem. Or, point us to a sample page where the problem exists... Thanks Russ On 15/03/2012, at 4:47 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote: HI. gota style sheet, and have the ul, ol, dl list, and a ul, a, b, and now. the first set or the two lists, they say the font name, but putting a third list, a list of my web and programming projects, for a school project, a port folio page. now jaws is not saying the font name, just 16 pt. why? do i need to create another list element. real weird. also, in jaws, the body, and the headings, not telling me the font alignment, and it does on other web pages. maybe some thing stupid, or wrong i am doing. well. will upload the site on the weekend, hopefully, for review, comment, feedback. got the ok from my lecturer to do this. so look for the links or the e-mail on the weekend. Marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] list heading - best practice?
h1 id=list_titleThe list titleh1 ul aria-labelledby=list_title li.../li /ul That way the semantic connection between the list and the heading is kept which I think is the purpose of what you're wanting, yes? Cheers, S I hate to nit-pick, but I'd argue that the aria-labelledby does not really change the semantics of an element. The semantics of an element is about defining the element's core meaning. The core meaning of an h1 is that it is a level 1 heading. In the case above, the labelledby attribute exposes the content inside the heading (via the accessibility API) and associating this content with the unordered list. So, these elements will now have additional meaning for Assistive Devices that support ARIA. However, the attribute does not change the core meaning of either of the elements. Does this make sense? Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Read Speaker?
It might be better to take that sort of discussion off-list. (so the list is freed up for all of those important out of office emails) Thanks Russ List admin On 24/02/2012, at 3:07 AM, James O'Neill wrote: Would you mind recapping the differences and providing some links for me if you have some available. Bias noted... =) Thanks *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] PHP Help Again
Ok, as many have suggested, these discussions are definitely off topic.
Marvin, please confine posts to web standards related topics
Everyone else, if replying, do it offlist.
Apologies all for the recent lack of list management!
Thanks
Russ
On 17/12/2011, at 6:50 PM, Marvin Hunkin startrekc...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi.
could david please let me know if he received my e-mails the other day.
if not, then will paste the following message.
if any one can help me off list.
Thanks.
Marvin.
Hi.
well sorry, forggot about that.
well if any one can help me with my smtp, and also using windows 7
professional 32 bit, and using wamp server 2.2, and using mozilla thunderbird
as my mail client.
also, how to format the message.
can any one help?
will paste my html form and the php code and the mozilla firefox browser
window below.
Marvin.
html
head
titleStudent Details/title
/head
body
h1Parents And Citizens Student School Survey/h1
form action=Data.php method=post
pFirstname: input type=text name=firstname/p
pLastname: input type=text name=lastname/p
pDate Of Birth: input type=text name=dateofbirth/p
pCurrent Year At School: input type=text name=currentyear/p
pNumber Of Siblings: input type=text name=familynumber/p
pHome Work: input type=text name=homework/p
pEntertainment: input type=text name=entertainment/p
pComputer: input type=text name=computer/p
pFamily: input type=text name=family/p
pFriends: input type=text name=friends/p
input type=submit name=submit value=Submit
/form
/body
/html
?php
$firstname=$_POST['firstname'];
$lastname=$_POST['lastname'];
$dateofbirth=$_POST['dateofbirth'];
$currentyear=$_POST['currentyear'];
$familynumber=$_POST['familynumber'];
$homework=$_POST['homework'];
$entertainment=$_POST['entertainment'];
$computer=$_POST['computer'];
$family=$_POST['family'];
$friends=$_POST['friends'];
$subject=$_POST['$subject'];
$message=$_POST['$message'];
echo h1Student Details:/h1;
echo pGreat! Thanks .$firstname. for responding to our survey./p;
echo pName: .$firstname. $lastname/p;
echo pDate Of Birth: $dateofbirth/p;
echo pCurrent School Year: $currentyear/p;
echo pNumber Of Siblings: $familynumber/p;
echo p Subject: $subject = '$firstname, $lastname survey results'/p;
echo pMessage: $message = '$firstname, $lastname, $dateofbirth,
$currentyear, $familynumber, $homework, $entertainment, $computer, $family,
$friends'/p;
$to='startrekc...@gmail.com';
$subject = $firstname, $lastname;
mail($to, $subject, $message);
?
http://localhost/SixthPHP/Data.php
table with 5 columns and 4 rows
( ! ) Notice: Undefined index: $subject in C:\wamp\www\SixthPHP\Data.php on
line 12
Call Stack
#
Time
Memory
Function
Location
1
0.0006
379792
{main}( )
..\Data.php:0
table end
table with 5 columns and 4 rows
( ! ) Notice: Undefined index: $message in C:\wamp\www\SixthPHP\Data.php on
line 13
Call Stack
#
Time
Memory
Function
Location
1
0.0006
379792
{main}( )
..\Data.php:0
table end
Student Details:
Great! Thanks Marvin for responding to our survey.
Name: Marvin Hunkin
Date Of Birth: 13/02/1965
Current School Year: 12
Number Of Siblings: 3
Subject: = 'Marvin, Hunkin survey results'
Message: = 'Marvin, Hunkin, 13/02/1965, 12, 3, 30, 88, 95, 33, 102'
table with 5 columns and 5 rows
( ! ) Warning: mail() [
function.mail]:
Failed to connect to mailserver at localhost port 25, verify your SMTP
and smtp_port setting in php.ini or use ini_set() in
C:\wamp\www\SixthPHP\Data.php
on line 24
Call Stack
#
Time
Memory
Function
Location
1
0.0006
379792
{main}( )
..\Data.php:0
2
0.0013
380832
mail
( )
..\Data.php:24
table end
ps: so how to fix the problems, maybe how to get the date for say Febuary 13,
1965, can any one help me out. maybe e-mail me off list via
startrekc...@gmail.com if not on topic.
--- In blindwebb...@yahoogroups.com, Parham Doustdar parham90@... wrote:
Marvin,
You cannot attach files to your emails when you're sending an email to
this list. But regardless of your code:
1. Setting up your SMTP is not a PHP issue, it depends on your operating
system.
2. I expect you're using Windows. As far as I know, there is not an easy
solution about running an SMTP server on Windows. What I did was to find
someone who would let me play with the SMTP server running on his Linux box.
But of course, if anyone has done this on Windows, I'd appreciate it if
they could step forward and help you.
Good luck,
Parham
On 12/16/2011 2:27 PM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:
Hi.
can some one help me to set up my smtp.
also, not liking some of my variables.
new to php and learning this.
can any one help me to get the script working, and also to format it.
i need to havea e-mail message in the form, and also need headings, or
information or labels for each of the information.
can any one help me?
will atatch my code, a html file and my php script.
Re: [WSG] Farewell (was : Out of Office)
Yes... the topics have gradually been getting more off topic. We will step in more quickly in future. Apologies all! Thanks russ On 16/12/2011, at 11:04 PM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: 'tis the season for folks on mailing lists to clutter everybody's inbox with discussions over out of office replies cluttering their inbox... recursion? self-fulfilling prophecy? In fairness though, picking up on the other topic: Marvin, as much as we sympathise with the difficulties you may be experiencing in getting inaccessible systems etc installed on your own...that's not quite the point of this mailing list. List mums and dads...agree or disagree? P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ __ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Content div sticking out the side of container div
Somehow I do not seem to have come across this problem before. I have two divs, one contained within the other. If the viewport of the browser is resized to be smaller than the contents of the inner div, the inner div sticks out the side of the outer container div, which continues to resize with the browser. Surely the outer div should stop shrinking when it reaches the width of its inner div, even if the viewport continues to be shrunk? This is actually normal behaviour (apart from earlier IE browsers). Containers that are not given a set width will collapse based on the width of the viewport (or based on any containing box. However, if you have a parent element with no width defined, and a child element with a width defined, the child element may poke out the sides (or remain visible) of the parent element. This is because the default overflow behaviour of the DIV element is visible. How can I fix this so that the outer div will not become any smaller than the width of its inner div, when the width of the inner div will be unknown? Well, there are all sorts of options here, depending on your need. 1. You could set the parent container to a size that is equal or larger than the child element. 2. You could set the child element to a percentage width so that it would never become larger than the parent. 3. You could sent the parent with some sort of overflow - such as hidden or auto - to hide aspects of the child element (the aspects that appear outside the parent element). A lot comes down to what you want to achieve... HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Breaks within table cells
Option 1:
Try making the two chunks of content into two individual paragraphs within the
one cell. It is not the most ideal semantics, though it could be argued that
they are two short paragraphs :)
Depending on how the margins have been defined for your paragraphs, this should
give you 1em of margin below each paragraph. If not, you could always set a
rule like:
td p { margin: 0 0 1em; }
or
td p { margin: 1em 0; }
or if you want it to be more specific:
.Table_Text p { margin: 0 0 1em; }
or
.Table_Text p { margin: 1em 0; }
Option 2:
Use rowspan:
tr
td class=Table_TextClient / solicitor/td
td rowspan=2 class=Table_TextBad advice/td
td rowspan=2 class=Table_TextEconomic loss/td
/tr
tr
td class=Table_TextClient / accountant/td
/tr
This is possibly more semantically correct than using paragraphs (without
knowing what you are doing with the table) as these look like two separate
options that are both able to be associated with data in other cells. The
downside of this method is that you may have to add an additional class on one
of the cells so that you can turn off borders between the two client cells.
HTH
Russ
On 23/11/2011, at 10:25 PM, Grant Bailey wrote:
Hello,
I would be grateful if someone could help with this, as I'm not a tables
expert.
I want to separate two separate entries in the one cell, to indicate
alterntatives. Like this (see picture):
bjecdfda.jpg
The coding for this part of the table looks like this:
td class=Table_TextClient / solicitorbrClient / accountant/td
td class=Table_TextBad advice/td
td class=Table_TextEconomic loss/td/tr
Unfortunately, I have not been able to style the left-most cell so that it
looks like the picture attached. I tried to style the br using the
line-height property but this only worked in Google Chrome.
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Re: [WSG] Breaks within table cells
Why not use a list within the table as it is a list of items. There you go! Option 3 :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Wrapping text before float drop
Think of how two columns work in a table, when they have no specified width. They adjust to the size of the content and the available width, and wrap their content if the available width is reduced. This should be easy in CSS, no? The simple answer is that floats are not ideal in this situation. There are three ways you could solve this problem - but as Hassan mentions, they are best done without using float. All three solutions may present issues in older versions of IE. Without knowing exactly what you are trying to achieve, it is hard to recommend one of these solutions. - Option 1 - display: table, display: table-row, display: table-cell - http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#display-prop For example, you could make the two containers operate like table cells. I am not really a fan of this approach, but it would give you the behaviour you are looking for. http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/example-stevio/table.htm - Option 2 - columns - http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-multicol/ - Option 3 - Flexible Box - As Hassan mentioned, you could use the flexible box module as a solution http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox/ Not sure if any of these help... Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Correct behaviour of fieldset?
Hey Stevio, There could be a range of reasons for the select element issue, so the only answer would be it depends. In your case, the issue MAY be related to font-size. Browsers may render the font-size of the select element slightly differently. This could mean that the em unit applied to the select element may be smaller in some browsers, and therefore the select element will not poke out the side of the form. Here is a quick online example: http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/example-stevio/ There are three form examples on the page. All three of these forms have been set to 30em wide. The first form example has a select element with no width applied. The second form example has a select element set to 32em. Depending on the font-size of the select element, this may mean it pokes out the side of the form element. The third form example has a select element set to 32em AND set to 100% font-size. So, in all browsers EXCEPT IE6, the select element SHOULD stick out the side of the form in all cases. In other words, this is a consistent and correct behaviour. (Child elements that are wider than the parent element should stick outside the parent and be fully visible, unless some form of overflow has been applied). The only exception is IE6, which will operate differently. IE6 will force the parent to wrap around the child element. In this case, the form element will them become 32em wide in order to accommodate the select element. This is not the correct behaviour, but it is a well known IE6 behaviour :) HTH Russ On 01/11/2011, at 7:11 AM, Stevio wrote: I have noticed that the behaviour of fieldset is inconsistent across browsers. I am working on a form where I have a fieldset with a 1px border. If the form has a fixed width of 30em, but there is a select list within that form with a width greater than 30em, then the form width will not expand but the fieldset width *may* expand depending on which browser is being used. The fieldset width expands in Firefox and Chrome, but not in IE and Opera. What is the correct behaviour? Thanks, Stephen *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Table borders
Hey Grant,
Try something like the code below:
1. The table markup is more accessible - th elements are very important for
screen readers
2. There are no presentational attributes (every time we include presentational
attributes, a fairy dies!)
!DOCTYPE html
html lang=en
head
meta charset=utf-8
titleGrant Bailey/title
style type=text/css media=screen
.Table_Text
{
border-collapse: collapse;
width: 600px;
}
th, td
{
border: 1px solid #000;
padding: 1em 2em;
vertical-align: top;
text-align: left;
}
.no-border { border: none; }
/style
/head
body
table class=Table_Text
thead
tr
td class=no-border/td
thColumn 1 Title/th
thColumn 2 Title/th
/tr
/thead
tbody
tr
thRow 1 Title/th
tdCol 1 Row 1/td
tdCol 2 Row 1/td
/tr
tr
thRow 2 Title/th
tdCol 1 Row 2/td
tdCol 2 Row 2/td
/tr
/tbody
/table
/body
/html
On 30/09/2011, at 7:01 PM, Grant Bailey wrote:
Hello,
I'd be grateful for some help on this problem.
I need to display a table. No problem except that it is one of those tables
that have header columns on the left and right, which means that the top
left-hand cell should not appear (i.e. have no border). Like this (please see
attachment if the picture does not appear below):
feegfdfj.jpg
Here is my coding:
table class=Table_Text width=92.2% border=1 align=center
cellspacing=0
tr style=font-weight: bold;
td style=border:none;br //td
td style=text-align: center; Column 1 Title/td
td style=text-align: center; Column 2 Title/td/tr
tr
td style=font-weight: bold; Row 1 Title/td
tdCol 1 Row 1/td
tdCol 2 Row 1/td/tr
tr
td style=font-weight: bold; Row 2 Title/td
tdCol 1 Row 2/td
tdCol 2 Row 2/td/tr
/table
Unfortunately, all of the major browsers show the top-left cell with a border
(a bit fainter, but you can still see it), despite my efforts (shown in code
above) to render it invisible.
If someone could advise me how to make the cell truly invisible I would be
most grateful.
Thank you and kind regards,
Grant Bailey
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Re: [WSG] Table borders
Sorry to rain on the Russ parade, but your example is missing some critical elements: scope. The th cells define the cell as a header, but we need to say what it is heading. However I think this would also help to use headers, which lets us define at the td level which th cells are important. Now that you have a nicely marked up table, add the YUI data table javascript for even more accessibility, plus you can sort, stripe, and even create a chart from the table. http://new.yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/datatable/ Although it's not as pretty as the excel exported markup :-0 Rain way! all good points :) One could argue that another accessibility benefit would be to add a table summary - but let's not open that HTML5-induced can off worms! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE9's Browser Mode Controls - Reliable?
Hello All - I've been testing a new version of a legacy project against IE 7, 8 and 9 using IE9's Browser Mode Controls. This way of switching browser modes (between 7, 8 and 9) is quite convenient but... is it a true representation of how the project will render in these three browsers? If not, I'd love to get some suggestions on the LEAST INVASIVE way to test different modern flavors of IE. Not ideal, but at least convenient - have you tried https://browserlab.adobe.com/ ? You can check a wide range of browsers easily, including IE6/7/8/9 HTH Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Disabled man got 6 years for sextortion
Agree. While horrible, the topic is not related to web design, development or web standards. THREAD CLOSED Thanks Russ On 03/09/2011, at 12:04 PM, Tom Ditmars zar...@zarggg.net wrote: On 2011-09-02 20:38, Jay Tanna wrote: A Southern California disabled man was sentenced Thursday to six years in prison for infiltrating computers belonging to women and teenage girls where he found sexually explicit photos and threatening to put them online unless they provided him with more. [snip] At the risk of sounding callous, while the situation is unfortunate and abhorrent, I'm not sure how it relates to *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] border doesn't work when -ms-filter (gradient) is used
Hi Tee,
Unfortunately, this is a known issue.
Basically, this MS gradient filters will drown out or over-ride borders. You
can see this more dramatically if you apply an MS gradient filter to a box that
also has a border-radius defined. The MS gradient filter will render a gradient
background as a square box - over-riding the round corners entirely.
Bottom line: these MS filters are very crude, and also cause performance issues
- making page load much slower.
Apologies if this was just a rough test, but if you were going to try and make
these gradients cross-browser, you would need to do something like this
(excluding the MS filter in sample below):
#c td
{
background-image: -webkit-gradient(linear,left top,left
bottom,from(#fff),to(yellow));
background-image: -webkit-linear-gradient(#fff,yellow);
background-image: -moz-linear-gradient(#fff,yellow);
background-image: -ms-linear-gradient(#fff,yellow);
background-image: -o-linear-gradient(#fff,yellow);
background-image: linear-gradient(#fff,yellow);
}
The first one if for the current version of webkit - which uses the oldest
syntax
The second one is for Chrome and the upcoming webkit versions (using the W3C
syntax)
The third one is obviously mozilla (using a slightly older syntax, but works
with the W3C syntax)
The fourth is for IE10 (using the W3C syntax)
Then Opera (using the W3C syntax)
And last, the actual W3C version
Aren't vender-specific extensions a joy :(
Be careful abut using the center keyword to define the start position/angle
as this is really only supported by Mozilla (which uses a slightly older
syntax). All other browsers support the W3C syntax, which allow the start
position/angle to be defined using four options:
Option 1 - leave blank
You can actually leave the start point or angle undefined, and the browser
will use the initial value “top” as the start point.
Option 2 - single keyword
You can define the start point/angle using a single keyword: left,
right, top, bottom
Option 3 - two keywords
You can define the start point/angle using two keywords: left top, left
bottom , right top, right bottom
Note: center is not permitted.
Option 4 - angle
You can define the start point/angle using any positive or negative angle:
0deg, 90deg, -50deg ... etc
I prefer option 1 where possible (simplest to write) or option 4 (can define
exact angle).
HTH
Russ
On 10/07/2011, at 8:54 AM, tee wrote:
Is this an IE9 bug?
http://jsbin.com/acawat
First table has -ms-filter: progid:DXImageTransform.Microsoft.gradient for
th and td, border lines are gone except the first (border-top for th) and the
last {border-bottm for td).
Thanks!
tee
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Re: [WSG] Google Les Paul tribute
HTML, CSS and JavaScript of course. Remarkably detailed and insightful help there! ;) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Modal/Lightbox Code
Please ignore. The user has been deleted form the system. As you were... Thanks Russ On 22/05/2011, at 8:24 PM, Richard Collmann wrote: Just how did this get in? And twice? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Looking for Melbourne based web developers
Ok. Any replies need to be offlist directly to to original poster please! Thanks Russ On 11/05/2011, at 12:54 PM, huyen tran huyentran1...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Stefan ! I'm can work SEO very good with cheapest prices.i ' have all severs. Can I help you? please contact with me This is mail of me huyentran1...@gmail.com. 2011/5/11 Stefan Willoughby s...@w3d.com.au Looking for recommendations for web developers (Pref in Melbourne) for some Gov work. I know plenty of places for high end design work, but just need HTML, CSS and jQuery. I have more work that I can deal with at the moment. Cheers Stefan Willoughby (Bureau of Meteorology) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile detection using CSS media queries
Hey Caleb, This is probably one of those case by case decisions. For some small sites, simple media queries may be fine. However, if you have a large site, or high levels of mobile traffic, you may want to consider more robust alternatives - such as device detection etc. This article is a little heavy handed - but worth reading: CSS Media Query for Mobile is Fool’s Gold http://www.cloudfour.com/css-media-query-for-mobile-is-fools-gold/ Good luck Russ On 03/05/2011, at 5:16 PM, Caleb Wong wrote: Hi, Is it safe to use just css media to target mobile devices such as iphone, blackberry, android phones? And assume if I'm only embedding 1 stylesheet with various media queries in it, would there be any lag in the page style load? Has anyone got some good examples/articles for targeting mobile platforms? Cheers Caleb *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] What kind of unit is _qem ?
This question has come up on CSS discuss in the past. http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/104705 One answer: I believe qem stands for quirky em and is a proprietary Webkit syntax used to refer to a margin which can be collapsed when the page is in quirks mode. How weird is that! Russ On 01/05/2011, at 10:02 AM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I see this unit being used with margin for example, in Mozilla and WebKit styles sheets, but I can't find any reference to it. Looks like it is mostly use to declare vertical values (top, bottom, before, after). Any clue? Thanks - *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML/CSS reference
A lot of personal opinion here... but try these books: Stunning CSS3 by Zoe Gilenwater The CSS Anthology by Rachel Andrew Designing with CSS by Andy Clarke Transcending CSS by Andy Clarke http://www.transcendingcss.com/ The Ultimate CSS reference by Tommy Olsson Paul O’Brien Building your own website the right way using HTML and CSS By Ian Lloyd One to avoid, as I have heard the author was on crack while writing it: CSS in Ten minutes by Russ Weakley :) On 06/04/2011, at 8:56 AM, Andrew Staff wrote: Hello all, I was wondering if anyone on this distribution list would have a recommendation for a great HTML/CSS reference bible? I’ve been web developing for over 10 years but only in the last 2 have I got heavier into the HTML and CSS side of things and I’d class myself as an intermediate in terms of knowledge so not looking for a starters/beginners/HTML for dummies type of reference but more a in depth, tips and tricks for layout, cross-browser compatibility tips, do’s and don’ts, etc. I have a load of web references and enjoy the links for light reading however am after a book that I can take with me on my commute and have as a reference when needed at work etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Kind Regards Andrew *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML/CSS reference
I wouldn't trust w3schools.com (note that it has nothing to do with the W3C) after looking at their HTML tutorial: http://cfajohnson.com/torontowebdesign/w3schools/ There is also this site which takes issue with W3schools: http://w3fools.com/ Personally, I think the approach taken by w3fools is a little too aggressive and emotional. Though they have relevant concerns, they use phrases like the site lies, blatantly false etc. The things is, it is easy for anyone to make mistakes. The W3fools site also have some minor issues in their own statements, which is kinda ironic. Anyway... each to their own. :) Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] possible to make DT and DD behave like TH and TD column visually?
1. I think you invented a new property overholow:hidden. Supposed to be
overflow: hidden; ?
2. If you place the borders on top of the elements, you have no lining up
issues:
#data-attribute dt, #data-attribute dd
{
float: left;
padding: 5px 0;
margin: 0;
border-top: 1px solid #ddd;
}
3. Both items are floated left. Setting a clear: right will not help or have
any affect here. Clear: right will clear any right floated item above.
Thanks
Russ
--
Russ Weakley
Max Design
Phone: (02) 9410 2521
Mobile: 0403 433 980
Email: r...@maxdesign.com.au
Skype: russ-maxdesign
MSN: r...@maxdesign.com.au
Website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/russmaxdesign
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russweakley
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--
On 31/03/2011, at 10:15 PM, tee wrote:
http://jsbin.com/emiye5/4/
The DD and DT are floated, when a DD has more content, the next set can't
stayed align horizontally.
P/s. I only use DL because LI doesn't make sense here and I can't get the
visual result I wanted.
#data-attribute {width:700px;background:#f9f9f9;overflow:hidden;}
#data-attribute dt{font-weight:bold;width:15%;}
#data-attribute dd{width:85%;clear:right}
#data-attribute dt, #data-attribute dd {float:left;padding:5px 0;margin:0;
border-bottom:1px solid #ddd;}
BTW, can one confirms if clear:right ever work or it only works with certain
combination? I have clear:right in the dd and it's not helping. Actually I
never able to get clear right work.
Thanks!
tee
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Re: [WSG] Horizontal Menu Bar Help Needed
Our good friend Xiong is no longer with us (on the mailing list at least) As you were... Russ On 30/03/2011, at 3:47 AM, huangmei mei wrote: hello , my good friend , our is china wholesale brand shoes . pls chack our site in fo : www.west-trading.com thanks xiong *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [SPAM] [WSG] html5 and iframes?
Agree... but support is sadly poor for the seamless attribute. Here is a quick article on seamless: iframe scrollbars and borders in HTML5 – working with “seamless” http://www.maxdesign.com.au/2011/03/10/iframe-scrollbars-and-html5/ Thanks Russ On 10/03/2011, at 2:47 AM, Jon Reece wrote: Bob, Since IE does not support HTML5 elements and doesn't obey CSS border-style on iframes, you have to include frameborder=0 to remove them. For browsers that do support the HTML5 iframe element you can use the new seamless attribute to remove the borders and scrolling. - Jon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] PDF Conversion
Hi Neeraj, Some questions: 1. are you also aiming to make the PDF's accessible? (i.e. tagged PDFs) 2. why PDF to Word? I have found there is little benefit in this type of conversion. I just checked with a blind user now - asking is there any advantage in Word over PDF? His answer: If the PDF is well structured, converting it to Word could remove some of the assistive structure. If the PF is not well structured, there is no advantage either way One place to try as a conversion service/tool is River Docs http://riverdocs.com/ Good luck! Russ On 09/02/2011, at 1:18 PM, Neeraj Challana wrote: Hi all, We need a tool to help us convert our many existing PDF documents into Word and/or HTML to improve the accessibility of our web and intranet content. While there are tools (both freeware and licence ware) available, I would like to get some recommendations and experience of other organisations in selecting and using of such conversion tools. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks Neeraj *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] PDF Conversion
Hi Kerry. Neither the blind user or I were suggesting that alternatives were not a good idea, or even a requirement. I'd always recommend providing an HTML alternative if possible along with accessible (tagged) PDF. The question was about Word as as a viable alternative to PDF. I am not sure it is. Though others may disagree! Thanks Russ - Russ Weakley Max Design Phone: (02) 9410 2521 Mobile: 0403 433 980 Email: r...@maxdesign.com.au Skype: russ-maxdesign MSN: r...@maxdesign.com.au Website: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/russmaxdesign Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russweakley Slideshare: http://www.slideshare.net/maxdesign/ -- On 09/02/2011, at 2:41 PM, Webb, KerryA kerrya.w...@act.gov.au wrote: Dave Lane: Thanks for asking those questions, Russ, and checking with users of assistive technologies. I also wondered how moving from an open standard to a proprietary one would help anyone with anything... Perhaps because not everyone would agree with Russ' blind user, and they might have a setup that can handle Word better than PDF. For those who might not be aware of it, current Australian government requirements mandate that PDFs should not be published on their own, but should be accompanied by an accessible equivalent. Kerry -- Kerry Webb Manager Policy Office | InTACT Shared Services | ACT Government --- This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. --- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] browsers rendering problems
Rather than attach, please send us a link to sample HTML and CSS files Thanks Russ On 11/01/2011, at 8:57 PM, olivia antonin olivianto...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi there, I have a real problem with my web pages, basically They don't render the same in Safari and firefox. Let me explain to you: The padding-bottom of the div information in the index page doesn't render the same in firefox as in Safari, and the same problem occur for the about us page too: the padding bottom of the div bonus What do you think may be the issue. Please help me...I'm pretty new in using CSS and need some help. I attached the files. Thank you. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** style.css index.html about.html about.css *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Flight Centre looking for talented front end developers to start immediately
Hi all, 1. Please reply off list. 2. Jobs should not be posted to the WSG list. Instead, please send all jobs directly to memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org - they will rhen be sent out with each weeks links for light reading Thanks Russ On 23/12/2010, at 10:54 AM, Ryan Blunden wrote: Hi everyone, Flight Centre are currently seeking full-time front end developers to start immediately. This is an excellent opportunity for the right applicants to get experience in a global ecommerce environment and enterprise content management systems. Salary will be negotiated based on skills and experience and you must be able to work full-time at our Brisbane head office. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] disallow IE6 to load the main style sheet
Why go that far? Why not let this browser see the CSS and fail gracefully - or semi-gracefully as needed (as long as the content and navigation are accessible so that the site can be navigated and read). On 18/12/2010, at 10:20 PM, tee wrote: I am finally to begin to stop supporting IE6 starts from 2011 as the usage has fallen below 5%. I don't want the IE6 users to see a broken page due to no special treatment made for the browser, rather, I would like them to see an un-styled page as if the style sheet has switch off. Can this be done? Thanks! tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Freelance Designer Needed
Hi all, This list is not about jobs or freelance connections. please do all further communications off list! Thanks Russ On 02/12/2010, at 2:59 PM, Daniel Anderson wrote: G'day, not sure if I am allowed to ask this on this list or not, but I am struggling finding someone. I am in need of a Guru designer to team up with on a few jobs that I have. All I need will be the PSD files and I will handle all the coding etc. If anyone could recommend someone that would be greatly appreciated. Cheers *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] lazyweb://schema.agnostic.URLs
Not quite: http://www.stevesouders.com/blog/2010/02/10/5a-missing-schema-double-download/ Yikes! It all seemed so easy... suspiciously easy! :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] CSS, :hover and touch screen devices (Was: CSS rollovers for images?)
stop sending me emails We've stopped sending this person emails. no need to comment on this. :) Continue with this great thread! Thanks Russ BTW, every WSG email that goes out has an unsubscribe link at the bottom. Better to click that that tell 7,000 people you don't want any emails :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Flight Centre looking for web developers - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED Hi all, 1. Job ads are not allowed on the mail list (under The mail list does not cover): http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm 2. If anyone has job ads they wish to promote, please email me off- list. I'm happy to add any job to links for light reading, which goes out to all members once per week. 3. please do not reply to this thread Thanks Russ Hi everyone, Flight Centre are currently seeking full-time contract junior to mid- level front end developers to start immediately. This is an excellent opportunity for the right applicants to get experience in a global ecommerce environment and enterprise content management systems. Contract rate will be negotiated based on skills and experience. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Yes or No? HTML5 FOR WEB DESIGNERS
now with added longdesc.. ;) On 18/08/2010, at 1:25 AM, Steven Faulkner wrote: good places to start with HTML5 are: HTML: The Markup Language http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/ HTML5 (Edition for Web Authors) http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/ regards stevef *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Paul Irish/Divya Manian HTML5 Boilerplate
I rather liked the conditionals around the body. What's not to like? Imho, it goes against the separation of structure and presentation (plus it messes up with the cascade), but I can understand why they are doing this. Since most people strongly believe that CSS validation is a must, they have to offer a solution that comes with the badge. Fwiw, I'd delete that junk markup and go with good old _property and *property hacks ;-) I like to concept of Conditional Comments around the body, and can see your point about it going against the concept of structure/ presentation. Regardless, I have two other concerns: 1. to stop IE8 stalling, you have to place an empty conditional comment near the top of the document head. I'm sure that every time one of these is added to a document a fairy dies somewhere. Details here (under Update): http://www.phpied.com/conditional-comments-block-downloads/ 2. if you use a CMS that pushes classes into the body element, you are in all sorts of trouble with this method. If you really like this method, an alternative is to use the same method on the html element. http://htmlcssjavascript.com/css/rethinking-the-how-to-serve-ie-specific-css-question/ Here is a sample page (view source to see the Conditional Comments around the head element): http://htmlcssjavascript.com/samples/cc/mine.html The bottom line is that all solutions when dealing with earlier versions of IE are going to be some sort of hack - whether it is a CSS hack or an HTML hack - it comes down to choices that you have to make... - which is most efficient - which is most future proof (won't come back and bite you) - which is easiest to maintain etc Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [ADMIN} spam alert - Thread Closed Re: [WSG] RE:
What part of thread closed do people not understand? Lea, I say we take off and nuke the entire list from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] @media ordering in stylesheet
Hey Jody,
First of all, the rules are incorrectly written. you need to include a
property in front of the value:
@media print
{
body { color: #FF; }
}
@media all
{
body { color: #99; }
}
Secondly, the winner is the second rule. @media rules are just
containers for a bunch of rules. They have no control over the
cascade. The important thing here is the order they are written.
For printers you specify white text. Then for all devices (including
printers) you specify a dark red text. The second rule wins due the
the rules of the cascade:
both rules are from the same origin (author)
both rules have the same !important (none applied)
both rules have the same specificity (selector weight)
Therefore, the order that they are written in is the key and the last
rule specified will win.
Thanks
Russ
--
Russ Weakley
Max Design
Phone: (02) 9410 2521
Mobile: 0403 433 980
Email: r...@maxdesign.com.au
Skype: russ-maxdesign
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On 06/08/2010, at 3:20 AM, Jody Tate wrote:
Hi all,
Does @media rule ordering in a stylesheet matter? For example, given
the following order:
@media print {
body {
#FF;
}
}
@media all {
body {
#99;
}
}
Will @media print override the @media all in this ordering?
Googling around, I've not found a clear answer to the question. So,
any help is appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
jody
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Re: [WSG] @media ordering in stylesheet
wow - three answers for the price of one :) On 06/08/2010, at 3:45 AM, David Storey wrote: No. the @media all will apply (well if there were any valid rules in the block). If the specificity is the same (as is the case in this example) and the query conditions both apply then source order wins. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: WSG Digest
I've just resolved the problem. No more discussion on this :) Changing mail lists VERY soon Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] stretching of html elements
It's still a bit hard to tell without seeing an example. Can you send a link to a cut down version of what the problem is? Thanks Russ On 21/07/2010, at 3:31 PM, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote: Hi Russ, I tried these CSS 3 properties and tested in the IE7 and Mozilla FF 3.6.6 browser, they are not helping is there any special hacks available to overcome this problem Thanks for your immediate response and article link you have given me. Cheers, JC *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] stretching of html elements
Hi JC,
This is a question where a example would help. It all depends on:
1. the element in question (the TD element operates differently to DIV
element in many cases)
2. whether sizing has been applied to the element
3. whether positioning had been applied to the element
4. which browser you are referring to (unless it is all browsers)
Here is a long-winded answer...
A DIV is a block level element by nature and will stretch to fit the
viewport (browser window) or any containing box. As soon as you apply
float, position: absolute or position: fixed the element MAY
change in dimension (depending on whether you also add a width/height
to the element). If no width is applied to a float, absolute or fixed
width element they naturally tend to shrink-wrap or collapse in width.
The DIV, or any block level element for that matter, is also set to
overflow:visible as the initial value. This means that an extremely
long word, if wider than the width of the DIV, will poke out the right
side of the DIV (assuming you have the default language - left to
right - ltr).
You can control this behavior using the overflow property. The
possible values in CSS2.1 are: visible | hidden | scroll | auto |
inherit. For example:
div { overflow: visible; } /* will show any content regardless of
whether it's wider or deeper than the element */
div { overflow: hidden; } /* will hide (cut off) any content that is
wider or deeper than the element */
div { overflow: scroll; } /* will add horizontal and vertical scroll
bars to the right and bottom of the element */
div { overflow: auto; } /* will add a scroll bar to the affected axis
of the element */
A TD element is quite different.
Unlike a block level element they naturally collapse in height and
width. You can change this - giving them a set width or stretching
them. They have one other unique characteristic. If you set a width on
a TD and the content is wider than the applied width, the content will
not flow outside the TD element (it will not overflow). Instead, the
TD will expand to suit the needs of the content. You cannot apply
overflow to a TD.
So are there any solutions? Well, CSS3 offers two properties that may
be of use... word-wrap and word-break. Keep in mind that milage
may vary. Safari and Internet Explorer support both of these
properties. Firefox seems to support word-wrap but not word-break.
Opera does not seem to support either.
Here super-quick is a test case for you:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/html-tests/property-wordwrap.htm
HTH
Russ
On 21/07/2010, at 2:58 AM, Jayachandran Kandasamy wrote:
Hi Team,
Is there any idea to overcome the problem when there is content
without blankspace (spaces between words) inside TD / DIV is still
expanding though it has fixed width.
Any suggestions welcome :)
Cheers,
JC
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Re: [WSG] [Job] Senior Freelance Web Designer | Melbourne
I take my eye off the list for two days THREAD CLOSED The guidelines clearly state that no job postings are allowed to the list - specifically for this reason. If you want to push a job to all members, send to me and I can send out with our weekly email. Thanks russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction - THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED This thread is closed. Please move along. Nothing to see... Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] IE6 Finally Nearing Extinction [STATS]
A good point. I have started tracking IE6 users down on an individual basis, going to their houses and doing a forced upgrade. It is labour intensive, but it gets results! ;) Russ IE swat team On 14/06/2010, at 11:31 PM, Edward Lynn wrote: Hi everyone, For me the IE6 issue is to a degree self perpetuating. We all do our best to support IE6 and provide an experience which is as little degraded as possible, and in doing that very thing, we give IE6 users no reason to upgrade. If everyone started not to ignore ie6, but to give them a degraded experience, and advise the user what they are missing out on, perhaps these users would start have have more of a reason to upgrade. Ed *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Difference between applied CSS and Computed CSS
Hi Rateb BEN MOUSSA
I am not seeing any difference in font size between the sites on
either Mac/FF3.5.7 or Mac/Chrome 5.0.307.9 beta.
Looking in Firebug, I see the body has been set in two places with a
font-size of 12px.
template.css (line 3)
body {
color:#00;
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12px;
}
editor.css (line 1)
body {
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12px;
}
These rules appears to be the same in both locations.
One thing I do notice is that both sites have missing CSS in Safari -
which causes large chunks of the page to appear unstyled.
The reason for this can probably be found in one of your css files:
/dev/serenitude/templates/serenitude/css/
css-5b04215701ad544b0144a40c4c2cdd38.php
In this css file you have a comment, a blank line and then an
@charset:
/*** principale.css ***/
@charset utf-8;
The @charset MUST appear in the first line of a CSS file. As the
canonical document on @charsets states:
Only one @charset rule may appear in an external style sheet and it
must appear at the very start of the document. It must not be preceded
by any characters, not even comments.
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset
From personal experience, I can tell you that while all other
browsers may be forgiving, Safari will ignore an entire style sheet if
the @charset does not appear at the very start of the file.
Easy to fix, profound difference (at least in Safari) :)
HTH
Russ
On 25/02/2010, at 9:05 PM, Rateb BEN MOUSSA wrote:
Hi all,
This is my first post here, I've a website which is hosted in two
location and it still under development.
Here I've a correct render under FF 3.6
(1)
http://www.serenitude.at/margot/vmchk/spa-fontenay/soin-spa-fontenay/nos-massages/id-menu-306.html
But here I noticed bigger text font under FF too
(2)
http://www.steit.net/dev/serenitude/vmchk/spa-fontenay/soin-spa-fontenay/nos-massages/id-menu-306.html
I've tested both of those links in Chromium 5.0.335.0 (0) they show
me the bigger font again.
Under Firebug I've noticed that there is no difference between
applied CSS for both website (tab: Style in firebug), but the
calculated CSS (tab: Computed in firebug) mention that (1) has font-
size: 12px and (2) has font-size: 16px.
I wonder to know how this could be happen, is it a non closed tags
or a misconfigured CSS that caused ambiguous inheritance.
Any idea about how to figure out with this problem, how to fix the
render of this page to become the same under different navigators.
Thanks for any help
--
Rateb BEN MOUSSA
IT - Development Integration
S.A.R.L. STEIT - Membre du GEEIT
| URL : www.steit.net
| Tel : +33 970406236
| Mob : +216 97 62 54 94
| Gtalk : bmra...@gmail.com
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| Linux user #486726
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Re: [WSG] @media
1. Is there a list showing browser support for @media?
Try the ever-helpful Site Point. The chart shows generally good
support (with some caveats):
http://reference.sitepoint.com/css/at-media
The chart mentions IE and Firefox are buggy - but be aware that they
are buggy in the opposite way to normal. The @media rules work well
across browsers. However, if no media type is specified, the entire
rule should be ignored as the W3C states: Invalid statements must be
ignored. Oddly enough, both IE and Firefox support the rule when no
media type is specified.
2. I want to combine my ordinary CSS with my print style sheet by
including an @media print {} declaration - does it matter where this
goes in the stylesheet?
Your @media rules can be placed anywhere in the CSS file - unlike
other @ rules. For example:
@charset must be the first line within your external CSS file
otherwise it is ignored (Safari ignores the entire CSS file)
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-css-charset
@import rules must appear before any other rules in a CSS file (apart
from @charset).
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#at-import
3. Do you know of any links which expand on @media, generally?
Definitive page on CSS2 @media:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/media.html#at-media-rule
A basic example page:
http://www.w3schools.com/CSS/css_mediatypes.asp
A good tip page: Do Not Specify Media Types in the Markup
http://meiert.com/en/blog/20090617/maintainability-guide/#toc-media-types
Worth reading up on more complex CSS3 media query options:
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-mediaqueries/
HTH
Russ
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Re: [WSG] @media
Hi Tom,
Sorry, I should have provided examples in my last email.
1. Below is a normal CSS rule (like the first rule in the
456bereastreet article) - which does not need a media type to be
defined:
body { background: #fff; }
2. Below is an @media rule, which DOES need a media defined (note that
an @media rule contains normal CSS rules - which are placed within
brackets):
@media screen
{
body { background: red; }
}
3. You can add as many normal rules as you want into an @media rule as
per below:
@media screen
{
body { background: red; }
p { background: yellow; }
h1 { background: lime; }
}
4. You can define an @media rule with a single media type or more than
one media type (separated by a comma) as per the two examples below:
@media screen
{
body { background: red; }
}
@media screen, print
{
body { background: red; }
}
5. You CANNOT specify an @media rule WITHOUT a media type as per the
example below. In most browsers, the @media rule above would be
(correctly) ignored as it is incomplete. In IE and Firefox, the rule
is not ignored, it is INCORRECTLY applied:
@media
{
body { background: red; }
}
Does this help?
Russ
On 24/02/2010, at 2:14 AM, Tom Livingston wrote:
So then in this article:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/201002/css_efficiency_tip_use_a_single_stylesheet_file_for_multiple_media/
In his code sample in the middle of the article, the first body rule
would be ignored - or, according to the spec, SHOULD be ignored -
because there is no media type specified for it?
Just trying to follow you here...
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Re: [WSG] Data URI encoder
Looks interesting, Mike :) For those unfamiliar with Data URI's, it may also be worth taking a look at this in depth article: http://www.nczonline.net/blog/2009/10/27/data-uris-explained/ Also Using Data URIs in CSS: http://nimbupani.com/using-data-uris-in-css.html Thanks Russ Hi all, May I ask the group to critique and comment on this image to data URI conversion tool? http://websemantics.co.uk/online_tools/image_to_data_uri_convertor/ thanks Mike Foskett http://websemantics.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] the mysteries of overflow: hidden - ADMIN
My apologies all. This charming individual has been removed from the list. No need to comment on this and add unwanted noise to the list... As you were. Thanks russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter! ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
This discussion has been at times interesting (where there was healthy exchange of info) and worrying (when personal criticisms were used instead of calm discussions). However, it looks like this thread has reached a point where we not gaining anything - just expressing disagreement. So, unfortunately, it is time to move on. THREAD CLOSED Please do not continue this thread Please do not reply to this email or any others in the thread Please go about your business :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Assistance with flash example sites
Hi people, A colleague has just asked me for some examples of Flash sites: 1. examples of flash sites which are not keyboard accessible (and/or poor tab ordering) 2. examples of flash sites which ARE keyboard accessible 3. examples of flash sites which work well with screen readers (He is aware of the Harry Potter Flash site, but is after other, possibly more recent examples) Please no comments about the merits or lack of merits of Flash. This is for some research he is conduction. :) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Accessibility does not matter! - ADMIN
ADMIN This discussion is quickly deteriorating into name calling, finger pointing, etc. Please return to the discussion, and be respectful of each other - regardless of your differences of opinion. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Regarding the loss of a web accessibility leader
Hi all, Mike Cherim let me know earlier than Jack Pickard, web accessibility leader and Team Access member passed away very recently, succumbing to a heart attack (at a young age, leaving behind a young family). He will be sadly missed by the accessibility community. Mike also passed on some relevant posts for those who want find out more or leave a comment about Jack: http://www.iancuddy.com/2010/01/17/jack-pickard-remembered/ http://accessites.org/site/2010/01/well-miss-you-jack/ http://www.thepickards.co.uk/index.php/201001/football-gossip-if-in-doubt-make-something-up/ Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] internet explorer font names
Hi Marvin,
I've placed two valid examples online for you to check (will stay
online for next 10 days or so only):
HTML: http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/marvin.htm
CSS: http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/marvin.css
Can you test these valid files and see if IE8 lets you hear/see the
headings that were causing you issues?
Some notes on your files:
-
CSS issues
-
In both errors you have used:
background-color: left;
The value of left is not allowed (it also does not make sense as you
are trying to apply a colour).
The allowed values include transparent, inherit and the various
colour options. The options are:
Option 1: Color keyword values
Example: p { color: black; }
CSS 2.1 color keyword values must only include: aqua, black, blue,
fuchsia, gray, green, lime, maroon, navy, olive, purple, red, silver,
teal, white, and yellow.
More here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#color-units
Option 2: Hexidecimal values
Hexadecimal values use a '#' immediately followed by either three or
six hexadecimal characters. The three-digit RGB notation (#rgb) is
converted into six-digit form (#rrggbb) by replicating digits, not by
adding zeros.
Example 1: p { color: #f00; } with three number value or
Example 2: p { color: #ff; } with siz number value
Option 3: Functional notation values
Functional notation values use rgb(' followed by a comma-separated
list of three numerical values (either three integer values or three
percentage values) followed by ')'.
Example 1: p { color: rgb(255,255,255); } with three numeric values
Example 2: p { color: rgb(100%, 100%, 100%); } with three percentage
values
-
HTML issues
-
Many of your issues are associated with the use of the BR element and
can be resolved by replacing br with br /.
The BR element is considered an empty or self closing element.
When using XHTML (you are using XHTML 1.0 Transitional) self closing
elements should include a trailing slash: br /
You have also placed several BR elements inside a UL element. This is
not allowed. The only items that can be placed inside a UL element are
LI elements.
More here:
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html#edef-UL
You have the following paragraph with no closing paragraph element
near the end of your document:
p style=clear:both;
Finally, your email address markup includes a subject hack:
mailto:i...@joes.com.au?subject=joe's Website Query
If nothing else, the subject needs to be correctly encoded so all
spaces are replaced with 20%.
Example:
mailto:i...@joes.com.au?subject=joe's%20Website%20Query
Read more on this here:
http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/topics/urlencoding.htm
Regardless, this solution for email subjects is a far from ideal.
Read more on this here:
http://www.sightspecific.com/~mosh/WWW_FAQ/mailsubj.html
http://shadow2531.com/opera/testcases/mailto/modern_mailto_uri_scheme.html
Final notes:
1. There are a range of cases where you have used BR elements where
they are probably not needed. The same could easily be achieved using
CSS by applying additional padding on one of the vertically adjacent
elements.
2. Similarly, you have used the HR element in several instances and
this could also be achieved using CSS by applying padding and borders
to vertically adjacent elements. Not essential, but worth considering.
3. There are several instances where you have used a DIV or PARAGRAPH
with the single purpose of clearing other content. Again, this could
easily have been achieved by applying the CLEAR property to one of the
existing following elements.
4. Finally, in two instances, you have used the TARGET attribute
within an ANCHOR element - target=_top. There have been many
discussions on this about this on the WSG list in the past. Rather
than get bogged down in this again, two simple points:
- this is not ideal as it not valid for XHTML 1.0 Strict (even though
it is acceptable in your case it is a good practice to move towards
strict)
- leave these out and let the user control their experience!
Thanks
Russ
On 19/01/2010, at 10:04 AM, Marvin Hunkin wrote:
hi.
what do you mean vallidate the css and the pages.
did do that a while back and it vallidated all.
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Re: [WSG] [WSG Announce] Some links for - THREAD CLOSED
OK, everyone... thanks for al the comments but enough. Please lets get back to discussing web standards, web development design etc. Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] [WSG Announce] Some links for light reading (22/12/09)
Hi Rimantas Why did I post this link? Because the article has an interesting take on HTML5. This does mean that I agree or disagree with the article. I hoped that the article would lead to discussion and debate. I had also hoped that any discussion or debate would be conducted in a respectful manor (regardless of how strongly one feels that the other party is incorrect) and that anyone involved in the discussion would present their arguments rationally and calmly without sinking to personal attacks on other web standards group members (yes, the person who wrote the article is a member of this group). Ahhh... I give up... there is no hope. Russ On 22/12/2009, at 10:46 PM, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Will HTML5 make the Web even more invalid? http://rebuildingtheweb.com/en/html5-make-web-more-invalid/ Can you provide any reason why you keep posting links to this site? Yes the blog _seems_ to be about web standards, but the posts are just speculation of poor quality and based on the lack of information, misunderstanding and false assumptions. Sure, the guy has financial interest of keeping xhtml afloat, so he may see the HTML5 as a threat, but that's not a good enough reason to spout nonsense. Regards, Rimantas -- http://rimantas.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Google Wave webstandardsgroup? ADMIN
ADMIN - No more WAVE giveaways people! Please do not write to the list offering invites Please do not write to the list asking for invites Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] 8 invites for Google Wave
ADMIN Google Wave invites are totally off topic - though its great to see people sharing. Can we do the following: 1. if you have WAVE invites, feel free to post to the list - just for today only! 2. anyone asking for WAVE invites to respond directly to the invitee OFF LIST! Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] .box breaks up on feedback page.
Hi Katherine,
This is a case of the specificity, or the weight of one selector
winning over another selector.
You initially apply a rule using this selector:
#navigation ul a { }
You then apply a new rule for the :hover pseudo-class, using this
selector:
#navigation a:hover { }
The third rule you apply is aimed at the last link in your navigation,
where the class of feedback is applied. This only takes place when
you also have the id of feedback applied to the body element.
#feedback #navigation .feedback a { }
The first rule's selector has a weight of: 0-1-0-2 (no inline styles,
one ID, no classes and two elements)
The second rule's selector has a weight of: 0-1-1-1 (no inline styles,
one ID, one pseudo-class and one element)
The third rule's selector has a weight of: 0-2-1-1 (no inline styles,
two IDs, one class and one element)
As you can see, this third rule has much more weight than the two
rules above so it wins out - the :hover rule will not be applied in
this case. There are a number of solutions, but the quickest is to
write a new rule just for this case, making sure the selector is
specific enough, and has enough weight:
#feedback #navigation .feedback a:hover { }
Does this all make sense?
I have a simple presentation about specificity and the cascade online
here if it helps:
http://www.slideshare.net/maxdesign/css-cascade-1658158
Thanks
Russ
On 13/11/2009, at 4:29 AM, Kathleen R Dery wrote:
Hello,
I have a .box on my lists. All of them have round corners except
the one on feedback page. I was able to get the corner on the
bottom-right round last night at one point, but when I moused over
it, it changed. Not that corner is not round at all. I am chasing
errors, but have not found it yet.
Will someone help?
Thanks!!
Kathleen
http://198.189.180.32/ma-ftp/media-arts/DMA_C111/dery/site/feedback_6.html
http://198.189.180.32/ma-ftp/media-arts/DMA_C111/dery/site/main.css
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Re: [WSG] Accessible Image Map Editors
Hey Marvin, Assuming that an image map must be used, then always include meaningful alt attribute content (or alt-text) for every area of the map. The alt-text should clearly explain the purpose of the relevant area. Good luck, Russ hi. is image map accessible with jaws? i need to create a image map for a web page i am developing for one of my online programming classes with http://www.johnsmiley.com any recommendations would be appreciated. cheers Marvin. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re: More than one H1? - ADMIN
ADMIN Hi all, The conversation has been great, but we are now heading into heated discussion and direct attacks - which is unacceptable. Please remain civil and receptive or the thread will be closed. Thanks Russ (civility police) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Ordered list start value
Mike, Sorry, but your statement is incorrect. The start attribute is allowed in HTML 4.01 Transitional and XHTML 1.0 Transitional The start attribute is NOT allowed in HTML 4.01 Strict and XHTML 1.0 Strict Thanks Russ On 28/09/2009, at 11:23 PM, Foskett, Mike wrote: The correct way to use list start values in XHTML is to use HTML v4 instead. mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] The 'Some Links for Light Reading' posts
Thanks everyone for kind words! Remember, you can email me any time if you have events, resources, new applications, articles or links you want to share/pimp etc :) Thanks Russ On 23/09/2009, at 5:43 PM, Frank Palinkas wrote: Indeed. Spot on Captain! Med vennlig hilsen / Kind regards, Frank M. Palinkas Technical Writer, Opera Software Documentation Localization Core Engineering Consumer Products Mobile: (+47) 95 17 61 11 http://dev.opera.com/articles/accessibility/ On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 7:52 AM, lisa.kerri...@iird.vic.gov.au wrote: me too! fabulous stuff Lisa Kerrigan | Manager Content User Experience www.business.vic.gov.au; www.diird.vic.gov.au ' +61 3 9651 9176 8 lisa.kerri...@diird.vic.gov.au Department of Innovation, Industry and Regional Development Level 31, 121 Exhibition Street, Melbourne, Victoria 3000. On Wed, 23 Sep 2009, nedlud wrote: I second that. On the other hand, after looking at a few of the links the first few times I received those messages, I now delete them unseen. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Susie Gardner-Brown susi...@uq.edu.auwrote: Hi there I?d just like to send a big thank you to Russ Weakley for taking the time to collate and send this to WSG Announce each week! I always find really interesting stuff there, and usually bookmark a couple of links from it. So, thanks Russ ? it?s really appreciated! -- Chris F.A. Johnson, webmaster http://woodbine-gerrard.com === Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Darius Design
He's gone. Apologies for the slowness people. Thanks Russ On 12/09/2009, at 3:14 AM, designer wrote: I thought that folk who sent autoreplies were automatically unsubscribed? This is the third from Darius Design in as many days, and I'm getting rather fed up with it. I doubt that I'm alone . . . Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest
Enough please! Thanks Russ On 04/08/2009, at 7:11 AM, Patrício dos Santos wrote: LET'S DO From: inspiron.patters...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:24:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Oh, that is a good point! Let's do!!! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Tony McNulty ton...@gmail.com wrote: Just for that I think we should keep him on! From: Brett Patterson Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:35:16 -0400 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Re WSG Digest Please remove this user from the group ASAP! -- Brett P. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Daniel Rowandanielpaulro...@googlemail.com wrote: Stop emailling me you fucktards i unsubscribed leave me alone! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:40 PM, TapirDesignsdesi...@tapirdesigns.co.uk wrote: I am currently away until 5th August but will get back to you as soon as possible on my return. *** List Guidelines:http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe:http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** conheça todo o Windows LiveT. ais do que correio - Windows LiveT oferece mais do que uma pasta A Receber. compartilhe fotos enquanto conversa usando o Windows Live Messenger. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] working with line-height
Hey Ben, That additional space you see above the letters is set aside for diacritical marks (umlaut etc). If you replace the content within the 23 pixel paragraph with the content below, you should see that all the special character marks sit above the letters and fill this empty space. Try adding this to the 23 pixel paragraph: Ugrave;Yuml;Ouml;Otilde;Ocirc;Oacute;Ograve;Ntilde;Iuml;Icirc; Iacute;Igrave;Euml;Ecirc;Egrave;Aring;Auml;Atilde;Agrave; How would you remove this space? The mind boggles. You are trying to mess with anonymous inline boxes. The actual inline boxes that wrap around text. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#anonymous I do not think that reducing the line height will resolve the issue as this will more than likely close the space BETWEEN lines - not reduce the height of the anonymous inline boxes themselves. Thanks Russ On 02/07/2009, at 1:20 AM, Ben Lau wrote: Hi list, I frequently have to work with pixel-perfect design, and I'm always having trouble with line-height in particular. Please take a look at this example: http://www.hellobenlau.net/wsg/index.html I'm wondering if there was a way to top align the text to its line- height. So say, with text size 20px, could the top of the 'T' be aligned to the top of the pink box? How does the 'gap' above and below the text gets calculated? Thanks Ben [] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expand width of container to fit content's width?
Is it possible to expand a container's width to fit its content?
For example, if I have a page where the content is wider than the
width available at the browser's current size, which means the
horizontal scrollbar appear, I want the container to expand to fit
the width of the content instead of having the content sticking out
the side (because that makes the design of the page look poor when
the user scrolls horizontally).
Thanks,
Stephen
Hey Stevio,
Without seeing a real example of what you are trying to achieve, it
sounds like setting your container to a percentage width should do
the job. Eg: #container { width: 100%; }
It will then expand and contract to the width of the browser window
(or the width of a parent element if this parent has a width
specified). Content will wrap inside this container as needed.
HTH
Russ
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Re: [WSG] Collapsing margins and relative positioning
Hey Grant,
Ok, this is a hard one to explain simply, but here goes:
Your position: relative container is being affected by margin
escaping (top margins escape out of the parent container), while
your position: absolute container is not being affected.
Here is a more detailed explanation (using some of the components
from your original question):
--
TEST 1
--
http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/grant-bailey/index.htm
HTML
div id=div_content
div id=div_omega
h1
I am the omega
/h1
/div
/div
CSS
#div_content { background: lime; }
#div_omega { background: blue; }
h1 { margin: 1em 0; background: yellow; }
- The #div_content has a lime background
- The #div_omega has a blue background
- The h1 has a yellow background as well as 1em of margin above and
below.
RENDERED
- You should see the h1 content and it's yellow background.
- You should NOT see is the #div_content or it's lime background.
- You should NOT see is the #div_omega or it's blue background.
Why won't you see the #div_content or #div_omega? It's because the
top margin on the h1 is escaping out the top of both of these two
containers and they are wrapping tightly around the h1 itself -
making them both invisible.
--
TEST 2
--
http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/grant-bailey/index2.htm
In this case, the only difference is that #div_content also has
border-top: 1px solid red;. As soon as this occurs, the h1's top
margin is trapped inside #div_content. Then, the background of
#div_content is visible. You should see #div_content's lime
background (as well as the thin red border above).
This is normal margin behavior. You can trap descendant's margins
using border or padding.
--
TEST 3 4
--
http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/grant-bailey/index3.htm
http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/grant-bailey/index4.htm
The only difference in these two cases from the tests above is that
#div_omega (the parent of the h1) is set to position: relative;.
As you can see, it makes no difference. The h1 top margin escapes
if no border is on top of #div_content (see index3.htm) and is
trapped if the border is present (see index4.htm).
We still have not seen #div_omega or it's blue background. (If we had
put the border-top: 1px solid red; on #div_omega we would have seen
this element and not #div_content).
--
TEST 5
--
http://maxdesign.com.au/jobs/grant-bailey/index5.htm
In this test, #div_omega (the parent of the h1) is set to
position: relative;. As soon as this happens a few things change:
1. #div_content disappears except for the border-top. This is correct
behavior as without any content in flow, the container will simply
collapse.
2. we can see #div_omega and it's blue background.
3. More importantly, we can see that #div_omega is wrapping around
the top and bottom margins of the h1 element.
--
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN
--
These rough tests show that regardless of whether #div_omega is in
flow as in test 1 and 2 or set to position: relative as in test 3
and 4 - the margin escaping issue is still the same.
However, as soon as #div_omega is set to position: absolute, the
margin escaping issue is not relevant.
Does all of this make sense? I hope so. :)
Russ
On 27/06/2009, at 1:46 AM, Grant Bailey wrote:
Hello,
I have a question about collapsing margins. I realise that the margins
of relatively and absolutely positioned elements are not supposed to
collapse, but I've come across an example that appears to break this
rule. I'd be grateful if someone could clarify what is going on.
My issue is that, in all major browsers, the margin of the h1 of
#div_omega collapses with the margin of body, even though
#div_omega has
been relatively positioned. Furthermore, adding padding to the body
does
not seem to fix the problem.
Grant Bailey
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Re: [WSG] OT: Dominos Pizza -THREAD CLOSED
THREAD CLOSED. WAAAY OFF TOPIC Thanks Russ On 16/06/2009, at 7:43 PM, Chris Dimmock wrote: I think the answer is... Yes, technically, there probably is more fibre nutrition in the cardboard box :) Sent from my iPhone On 16/06/2009, at 10:51 AM, Mike Kear w...@afpwebworks.com wrote: This is off-topic for this list so please respond direct to me rather than the list ... I'm looking to have a quick chat to someone who's worked at Dominos Pizza some time in the last 5 years - not necessarily in the IT area - even someone who's delivered pizzas would do. But if you've worked there or know something of how they operate, I'd be grateful if you could contact me. (Just being a customer isn't enough - I am too) I need to ask a fairly basic question about an aspect of their operations - I wont be asking you to break any confidences and its not for any competing project. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia 0422 985 585 02-4577-4898 Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks Pty Ltd http://afpwebworks.com Full Scale ColdFusion hosting from A$15/month *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Image Replacement and Accessabilty
On 16/4/09 05:56, Gary Barber wrote:
Now it is
h#{
left: -px;
}
that had issues with screen readers.
Interesting. Not in my experience.
What screen readers and versions are you talking about? Do you have
a test case that demonstrates the problem?
I'd agree with Benjamin.
Roger Hudson and I conduced research several years ago across a range
of users and assistive devices (various versions of JAWS and Window-
Eyes) and documented the results [1]. Part of this project included
testing structural labels that were hidden from browsers using off-
left. We found the off-left method to be successful in all cases
(meaning that the relevant text was hidden from browsers but still
able to be read out by the various screen readers).
The method I used included position:
position: absolute;
left: -500em;
[1] http://www.usability.com.au/resources/source-order.cfm
Of course, we'd all prefer to use the correct method, which is
display:none - but we have not been able to use this due to issues
with earlier versions of JAWS (content set to display: none was not
read aloud by these screen readers) - negatively affecting the very
people we were trying to assist. :(
Thanks
Russ
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Re: [WSG] add to favorites? - ADMIN - KEEP IT POLITE PLEASE
ADMIN This thread has deteriorated into slanging match. Any more and the thread will be closed. Keep the conversation constructive, helpful, considerate... Like a giant virtual group hug :0 Thanks Russ List admin and group hug evangelist *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: Who's responsible (was Re: [WSG] add to favorites?) - ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] add to favorites? ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN THREAD CLOSED *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Hotlinking prevention does not work - ADMIN
This is not the place to discuss such problems. This mailing list is to be used for discussions based around Web Standards. I don't disagree, but darn, web standards related or not I was curious to see the responses. :( ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED All responses can go off list to the original poster! Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: [BULK] WSG Digest - ADMIN THREAD CLOSED
ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED! Enough! This discussion has gone on far too long. Please get back to discussing relevant topics! As the guidelines state: Do not post problems or complaints to the list. Instead, email Peter and Russ off-list (memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org) Thanks Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] macpro and softwares..
Hi Naveen, Here are some resources to try... Testing Try Parallels (though there are others out there apparently equal or better?). This allows you to install multiple versions of Windows which means you can test IE6/7/8 in different versions. http://www.parallels.com/ HTML/CSS Editors BBEdit - http://www.barebones.com/products/bbedit/ Coda - http://www.panic.com/coda/ CSS Edit - http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/ skEdit - http://www.skti.org/skedit/ TextMate - http://macromates.com/ FTP CyberDuck - http://cyberduck.ch/ Fetch - http://fetchsoftworks.com/ Transmit - http://www.panic.com/transmit/ Browsers Camino - http://caminobrowser.org/ Demeter - http://www.hurrikenux.com/Demeter/ Firefox- http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ Flock - http://www.flock.com/ Icab - http://www.icab.de/dl.php Lynxlet - http://habilis.net/lynxlet/ Netscape - http://browser.netscape.com/ OmniWeb - http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/ Opera - http://www.opera.com/ Safari - http://www.apple.com/safari/ SeaMonkey - http://www.seamonkey-project.org/ Shiira - http://shiira.jp/en/ Sunrise - http://habilis.net/lynxlet/ Good luck! Russ I used to work in a windows system and now I am working in a macbook pro. how can I test my webpages for IE. Is there any IE installers available for mac? Also pls let me know what are the softwares available for a UI developer for Mac. Naveen Bhaskar *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Classes---Adding multiple classes to an element, is there a downfall???
Hey Brett,
There are many ways to do what you need - so you may not need to use a
multiple class selector at all.
OPTION 1
--
Using the html example you sent in a previous email, you could target
instances of content using descendant selectors based on the parent classes
alone - without the need for styling the information or more-styles
classes at all.
HTML:
div class=first-class
p class=informationContent goes here on line 1/p
/div
div class=second-class
p class=information more-stylesContent goes here on line 2/p
/div
CSS
.first-class p { background: #FCC; }
.second-class p { background: #AAC; }
OPTION 2
--
You could do the same with a combination of parent classes and the
information class:
.first-class p.information { background: #FCC; }
.second-class p.information { background: #AAC; }
OPTION 3
--
You could style just the two class instances alone (without the parent
classes):
p.information { background: #FCC; }
p.more-styles { background: #AAC; }
This would style any p with a class of information with a background of
#FCC, and any p with a class of more-styles with a background of #AAC.
If the p has both classes, then more-styles would win (as it is written
after the other rule) and the background would be #AAC.
OPTION 4
--
Finally, you could use a multiple class selector for the second rule (though
this seems unnecessary, as you can see from the options above):
.information { background: #FCC; }
.information.more-styles { background: #AAC; }
One reason to avoid the multiple class selector (.information.more-styles)
is IE5's and IE6's lack of support.
I wrote an article on multiple classes some time ago, in case you want a
little more info:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/multiple-classes/
HTH
Russ
on 24/2/09 4:29 AM, Brett Patterson at wrote:
So, where:
p class=information more-styles
what I was wondering (I should have worded better, sorry) was if I took:
.information
{
background-color: #FFF;
color: #000;
}
/* This below, will apply only to the paragraph with the more-styles class
applied to it */
.more-styles
{
color: #333;
}
and applied to both of those paragraph (through the classes), which is the
last paragraph. The first paragraph has only one class assigned to
it...whereas, the last paragraph has 2 classes assigned: the first class
assigned, i.e. information, contains the formatting (the formatting applied is
the background-color, and the font's color (color)) that will apply to all the
paragraphs with that class assigned to them (it); the last class assigned,
i.e. more-styles, will change only the font's color in that particular
paragraph...
Is what the style you have applied, like if I had done this instead of what is
applied at the top?:::
.information.more-styles
{
styles: here;
}
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[WSG] Sydney meeting tonight
Tonight 44 people attended our Sydney WSG meeting - a huge night (where lots of beer was consumed). A big thank you to Peter Ottery, who did a fantastic presentation on the Sydney Morning Herald site and its conversion to full CSS. We will get the presentation up on the WSG site as soon as possible. Thanks to all who turned up! Russ and Peter * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout
This is a perfect example of tabular data - it is semantically correct inside a table. Instead of thinking of ways to convert it into divs, you should be working on implementing accessibility features: id, headers for, summary, caption, etc. A rough example if id's and headers in action is here: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/accessible/ Russ Greetings I'm trying to replace this table http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables any idea how to do it ? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Ten questions for Dan Cederholm
Dan Cederholm is the author of Web Standards Solutions: The Markup and Style Handbook as well as many articles on standards-based design for publications such as A List Apart . Dan also runs the popular weblog SimpleBits , where he writes articles and commentary on the web, technology and life. Read more: http://webstandardsgroup.org/features/dan-cederholm.cfm Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment
I think can beat that! I played around with flash and and then Peter and I were threatened with defamation in the Supreme Court of Queensland: http://news.awn.com/index.php?newsitem_no=4149 But that was before we became responsible listparents :) Russ I played around with flash - in a wk i made blue box move from one side to another :D!! * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Standards Compliance -vs- User Enjoyment - OT
Apologies to all - I seem to have done some thread hijacking of my own! That off-topic post was made in a flippant mood on Saturday night. The site in question was taken down a year or two ago, so the games cannot be seen. However, the front page is still available on the wayback machine (may offend some viewers): http://web.archive.org/web/20020925212239/webwank.net/ In those days we were into political activism and fighting for the rights of Indigenous Australians. Now we are standards evangelists fighting for CSS and standards against repressive regimes (such as IE6). :) Back to discussions on web standards... Russ Sorry, I meant the site the article talks about - webwank.net - I want to throw tampons at John Howard! * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Anti-spam mailto... MOVED TO DISCUSSION ROOM
Ok, this thread is way off topic now. As it seems of-interest to a section of members, rather than close it we have moved it to the discussion room: http://discuss.webstandardsgroup.org/archives/17.htm Any further discussion on this thread can take place in there but NOT on list. Thanks Russ On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 17:41:32 +1000, Alan Harrison wrote: Mark is quite correct when he says that complex e-mail harvesters will probably work around these methods, but it appears that most of the harvesting is done by very basic programs that are looking only for e-mail addresses stored in conventional format. Assuming true intelligence on the part of a spammer is probably going too far, but it does occur to me that it is in the interests of spammers not to try too hard to collect addresses. By only collecting the most easily found addresses (ie the un-obfuscated ones) they: 1) still get many millions of addresses to use and 2) are less likely to reach the group that will report them. But that sort of thinking assumes sensible reasoning on the part of the spammer. :) FTR - I've had great success with minimising spam with simple replacement with character entities. Note that I also hide the 'mailto:' part. Lea * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Some links for light reading...
Joe Clark and Craig Saila have been looking at Canadian Government election websites from an accessibility point of view - interesting reading http://blog.fawny.org/2004/06/03/election/ Associated pages: http://joeclark.org/election/releases/ http://joeclark.org/election/findings/ http://joeclark.org/election/findings/#summary The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html Dean Edwards IE7 update: http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/update.html http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/intro/ Gurus v. Bloggers, Round 2 - light-hearted looks at web sites http://www.designbyfire.com/96.html Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Budget Design - ALREADY CLOSED
Mordechai and Rick, This thread was closed about 10 hours ago by Peter (Listdad) Please do not continue. Thanks Russ What Rick says is true -- it is illegal for US businesses (including individuals who freelance) to discuss rates with members of the same industry. The legal term here is price fixing, and it is taken very seriously, regardless of the intent of the discussion or the context within which the discussion takes place. Not true. What isn't true? That you have any idea of the illegalities of price fixing discussions, whether such discussion is implemented or not? Rick Faaberg * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Ten Questions for whomever
Hi Sean, I have been interviewing a range of high profile web developers who have information that could be of value to WSG members. In each case, I have approached people, they have not approached me. I wanted to keep the interviews to 10 questions as I generally do not like reading interviews unless they are short, sharp and to the point. The interviews are published for anyone, but my real focus is for WSG members - people dealing with the implications of web standards on a daily basis. Next Tuesday, Dan Cederholm's interview will go live (very excited about this one), then we will begin series two - which will hopefully include: Richard Rutter Molly E. Holzschlag Jeffrey Zeldman Sean Corfield Jon Hicks Dave Shea If you have any burning questions you would like to as this next series of people, please email me off-list and I'll try to include your question in the overall ten questions. Thanks Russ Ten Questions for whomever With the WSG Ten Questions for Whomever thing, do you have to ask to be intervied or does someone ask you if you can be interviewed? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Ten Questions for whomever
Well... That is slightly incorrect... So far we have done: Eric Meyer Keith Robinson Anne van Kesteren Nick Finck Andy Budd Patrick Griffiths Simon Willison None of these people will be presenting at Web Essentials 2004 in Sydney. Over the coming months I'll be interviewing Dave Shea, then possible Doug Bowman, Joe Clark and John Allsopp - all of whom will be presenting at WE04. Russ AFAIK You have to be a big player in web standards, there has also been some correlation between interviewees and people at the Web Essentials seminar series later this year which is fair enough. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Ten Questions for whomever
Don't worry, Man in blue, you are on my to interview list! :) Russ I heard he's a J.D. Salinger-type recluse who only gives interviews for six figures. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
