Oh dear me lol
I am still on IE6 and so I guess jump a version.
Kate
Bichon Frisé
http://jungaling.com/kynismarmissmillie/index.php
Borneo
http://julienne.wordpress.com/
***
List Guidelines:
A better approach would be to switch to a more standards compliant browser
like Firefox/Opera or Safari ;o)
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
http://www.opera.com/
http://www.apple.com/safari/ (still appears to be in beta for windows
though).
If you're a web developer/designer, you should
Thomas Thomassen skrev:
Yes, that is an issue. But saving webpages to disc has always been
unreliable. Espesially now with the extensive use of AJAX and other
embedded and streamed content.
Not to mention IE:s habit of botching up the markup badly. Valid and
well-formed XHTML will often be
[EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev:
One question that I have yet to see anyone ask is: How good will IE8
actually be?
If it is perfect, then there is no need to worry about future
versions...
No browser is, and never will be perfect. (Look at Acid 3.
http://acid3.acidtests.org/ And when most browsers
When IE8 comes out, no, we won't be able to ignore IE7, and most likely
not even IE6 yet. However, eventually, IE6 and IE7 will fade away, just
like IE5 did.
James Leslie wrote:
It is the best solution they can come up with that won't destroy
everything that has been created in
Michael Horowitz wrote:
I would assume any professional developer will test any application they
currently support with IE 8 when it comes out. I'm sure I will get a
lot of business from new clients who need their sites updated to support
whatever changes MSFT makes.
But, since IE8 will by
On Jan 30, 2008 1:31 AM, Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't want to default to IE8 rendering because of what happend with
IE7. It broke website. Not only that but IE is used so much outside the
browser as well. It's a platform. Intranet apps. HTA apps. Even help files
uses
Christian Snodgrass wrote:
It's more likely (assuming they get the info about the meta-tag out
there) that new sites will be developed using this meta-tag and
standards-compliance. Eventually, the old sites will be replaced with
new ones built in this fashion. Then, when they finally just
Thomas Thomassen wrote:
You don't have to modify every single HTML you publish. You can set the
HTTP header for HTML files on your server and off you go.
What I've yet to hear
from people who don't like the solution is a realistic alternative.
Letting the sites break is not an
Thomas Thomassen wrote:
You don't have to modify every single HTML you publish. You can set the HTTP header for HTML files on your server and off you go.
Don't forget the nasty gotcha: save that page on your own computer, load
it back up and suddenly it looks different (as the browser doesn't
Well, apart from that I don't like IE/win version targeting one bit, if
MSIE uphold this version targeting strategy in future versions, we may
as well use it to our advantage.
Sidelining IE/win while designing for standards and better browsers,
doesn't have to become a problem for designers or
One question that I have yet to see anyone ask is: How good will IE8
actually be?
If it is perfect, then there is no need to worry about future
versions...
I also haven't seen anyone mention the fact that we have yet to get rid
of IE5 completely - I know of at least one large organisation (not my
On Jan 29, 2008, at 7:38 PM, Casey Farrell wrote:
IE8 _will_ be the most popular web browser
it ain't necessarily so... first of all prevalent is not equivalent
to popular, but IE was not always the most prevalent browser, and is
once again losing some of the market share that it unfairly
It is the best solution they can come up with that won't destroy
everything that has been created in the past. Adding one line of code to
each of your pages is a lot more cost effective and time saving then all
of the hacks we currently have to do to get it to display properly in
IE6 and IE7.
On Jan 29, 2008, at 10:10 PM, Jermayn Parker wrote:
and then we will see the infamous pre-2000 days with websites reading:
This is best viewed using Internet Explorer 6
Would it be so bad if this was This site is best NOT viewed with
IE?? Come on - Let's not break the web - it's already
I think we will be able to 'ignore' IE7 way before IE6 due to Microsoft
being able to (presumably) force upgrades of IE7 to IE8, but still being
stuck with IE6 in the way we are now on older OS's.
Though IE8 rendering like IE7 by default means we will have to fix for
that And no doubt
- Original Message -
From: Katrina [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Thomas Thomassen wrote:
You don't have to modify every single HTML you publish. You can set the
HTTP header for HTML
: Chris Knowles [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Thomas Thomassen wrote:
You don't have to modify every single HTML you publish. You can set the
HTTP header for HTML files on your server and off you go
Thomas Thomassen wrote:
Not every site has a webdesigner constantly maintaining it.
Retroactively editing the millions of existing pages out there will cost
an enourmouse amount of money. Fitting a meta tag into existing
documents isn't as easy as implementing it into new ones.
Then change
@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
On Jan 30, 2008 1:31 AM, Thomas Thomassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't want to default to IE8 rendering because of what happend with
IE7. It broke website. Not only that but IE is used so much outside
Damn, this is the second time in the last two days I have replied to
something via the WSG instead of to the person I really meant to send
it to. Argghhh GMAIL!
Or perhaps its just silly user error... :)
Sorry everyone!!!
On Jan 30, 2008 3:47 PM, Mark Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Karl
this to the owners and users because
they're the ones that'll suffer the most. And we are after all
offering a service.
- Original Message - From: James Bennett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] This IE8
Subject: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Hi
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree
with
Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die.
--
Peter Mount
Web
Subject: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Hi
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree
with
Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die.
--
Peter Mount
Web Development
PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:18 AM
Subject: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Hi
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree with
Drew Mclellan when he said
Hi
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree
with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die.
--
Peter Mount
Web Development for Business
Mobile: 0411 276602
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 29 Jan 2008, at 13:48, Dave Woods wrote:
Using an HTML5 doctype will remove the need to include the meta tag.
What a shame that HTML5 has only just released its first official
draft ... which has comments like:
6.3.5.2. Broadcasting over Bluetooth
Does anyone know enough
Bruce wrote:
- Original Message - From: Peter Mount [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:18 AM
Subject: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Hi
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
freezing thing in IE8, maybe
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
I personally think it's great. Think of the time you save by not having
to debug IE.
why won't we have to debug IE? We'll still have to make our sites work
in IE7 and IE6 for quite some time.
I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does
anything
Chris Knowles wrote:
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
I personally think it's great. Think of the time you save by not
having to debug IE.
why won't we have to debug IE? We'll still have to make our sites work
in IE7 and IE6 for quite some time.
Sure. But if IE8 in standards mode is any good, then
I just like to ask if it might be possible to turn off this version
freezing thing in IE8, maybe with some markup or something. I agree
with Drew Mclellan when he said in his blog that old browsers must die.
You can't turn it off as such, since it will be built in to IE8 and
enabled by
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
Chris Knowles wrote:
I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does
anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by
allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent browser
while at the same time not doing the
Chris Knowles wrote:
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
Chris Knowles wrote:
I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does
anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by
allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent
browser
while at the
I don't think they're ignoring the mess they created at all..
You're right there. They're not ignoring the problem, it's just that a lot
of people don't agree with their solution.
Is
adding a meta tag really too much work to provide your users/visitors
the viewing experience they should have?
to with my time
fix their errors.
Bruce
bkdesign
- Original Message -
From: Chris Broadfoot [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Chris Knowles wrote:
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
Chris Knowles wrote:
I
Chris Knowles wrote:
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
Chris Knowles wrote:
I don't see how opting-in to standards by adding a meta tag does
anything for me or anyone else. Except for Microsoft of course, by
allowing them to do the right thing at last and create a decent
browser
while at the same
the engine. well, too bad, I'm not going to
with my time fix their errors.
Bruce
bkdesign
- Original Message - From: Chris Broadfoot
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
Chris Knowles wrote:
Chris
Christian Snodgrass wrote:
The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the
opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that
made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes
even a lot of your own sites. Beyond that (since they could
Christian Snodgrass wrote:
The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the
opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that
made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes
even a lot of your own sites. Beyond that (since they could
nothing is wrong with it!!
saves times, money, grey hairs and we will all live longer happier lives!
If you have a web-based application that will break in IE8, then whats
so wrong with adding an HTTP header or a meta tag to say 'use IE7' ?
Well said.
Another thing is, as much as everyone gripes and moans, you can't just
start ignoring IE. Well, I guess you could, but then you'd miss about
50% of your possible audience. That would probably tick some clients off.
It is the best solution they can come up with that won't destroy
Precisely and well said,
bruce
bkdesign
- Original Message -
From: Ben Buchanan
snip/
Consider it this way: is any other browser maker asking you to modify every
single HTML document you publish, just to fix a problem *they* created? ...and
not for the first time, given MS
Chris Knowles wrote:
Christian Snodgrass wrote:
The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the
opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that
made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes
even a lot of your own sites. Beyond
A great point Casey. MS have taken the first major step in moving towards a
standards compliant industry and we, the web designer, are complaining that
it's going to break our old sites hacked up for IE6/IE7. The saying says 'we
can't have our cake and eat it too', but in fact we can. We have
Chris Knowles wrote:
Yeah actually I agree, they're not ignoring the mess. Just actively
covering it up by enlisting yours and my support.
My users/visitors should get the right viewing experience by default,
not by having to opt-in. On the contrary, if you wish your
users/visitors to NOT
I think the opt-in approach is really the only path they can take.
They can't very well abandon all the website, intranets, extranets
that are coded specifically to take advantage of Microsoft 'features'
within older IE browsers.
The corporate environment is fairly adverse to change, even on a
Matt Fellows wrote:
A great point Casey. MS have taken the first major step in moving
towards a standards compliant industry and we, the web designer, are
complaining that it's going to break our old sites hacked up for
IE6/IE7. The saying says 'we can't have our cake and eat it too', but in
What's so wrong with adding a tag that says use IE8?
Standards are a type of contract creating abstraction. If you develop to
standards, you don't need to know, nor should you, what browser or
version they are running.
This tag breaks that abstraction. It's white box rather than black
Karl Lurman wrote:
I think the thing to remember here is that, over time, the older
browsers will be phased out.
Jokes aside. As the older browsers FINALLY become less important,
YEARS from now, they can eliminate the meta-tag altogether.
But the crappy intranet sites etc that are coded
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
Too much work for those that aren't in the know.
but not too much work for you and me?
What I think it really means is that those not in the know would have to
be told - and that could damage reputations! (which can hurt revenues)
I'd argue that it's one of the
and then we will see the infamous pre-2000 days with websites reading:
This is best viewed using Internet Explorer 6
Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] 30/01/2008 11:55:19 am
Karl Lurman wrote:
I think the thing to remember here is that, over time, the older
browsers will be phased out.
There is another possible outcome which is positive.
It's more likely (assuming they get the info about the meta-tag out
there) that new sites will be developed using this meta-tag and
standards-compliance. Eventually, the old sites will be replaced with
new ones built in this fashion. Then,
Chris Broadfoot wrote:
Christian Snodgrass wrote:
The biggest problem is the fact that if they don't have it be the
opt-in option, that any older sites that used all of the hacks that
made it work in IE6 and IE7 won't work in IE8. That probably includes
even a lot of your own sites. Beyond
I would assume any professional developer will test any application they
currently support with IE 8 when it comes out. I'm sure I will get a
lot of business from new clients who need their sites updated to support
whatever changes MSFT makes.
Lets face it how many older sites need to be
Train: there is a 6:30 pm overnight train,clean and comfortable, that
leaves from Bangkok's Hualomphong Station. You can buy a train + ferry
ticket package a day in advance(approx.800 baht) from travel agencies
on Kao San Rd. You will arrive at 6 am in Surat Thani and catch a
connecting bus to
Karl Lurman wrote:
Train: there is a 6:30 pm overnight train,clean and comfortable, that
leaves from Bangkok's Hualomphong Station. You can buy a train + ferry
ticket package a day in advance(approx.800 baht) from travel agencies
on Kao San Rd. You will arrive at 6 am in Surat Thani and catch a
Just keep the website to look and behave right in IE7 then!
and create every new website or important/ re-designed websites with the new
target IE8 tags!
sounds quite simple to me.
Maybe not the most perfect but you cannot expect everything to jump over night!
Christian Snodgrass [EMAIL
But the crappy intranet sites etc that are coded specifically to IE6 or
IE7's quirks *won't* go away (as that's the whole reason why MS are doing
this), so no, the meta tag (and the associated rendering engine) will
stay. If they're freezing rendering unless you opt-in because corporates
won't
: Ben Buchanan
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: [WSG] This IE8 controversy
I don't think they're ignoring the mess they created at all..
You're right there. They're not ignoring the problem, it's just that a lot of
people
59 matches
Mail list logo
