On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:48:17 +0100, you wrote: > > >I am preparing an article about general energy storages and wonder if >anyone have calculated the costs for the battery storage part of small >energy generation. The more I look at this, the more possibilities opens >up, by using storage techniques. It is even more interesting when you look >at combinations with renewable energy sources and heat pumps of different >kinds. This especially in countries with high electricity costs, like the >European ones. > >The reason why I ask, is to know what could be gained by only a storage >solution, by utilizing rate differences. If you have low rate prices, they >are normally 50-60% lower than normal rates. With a battery storage >solution, would it be feasible to charge during discounted time and that >way reduce over all electricity costs? > >Hakan
I don't have what you're looking for, though I will be sitting down today with a salesperson about buying some solar for my house, and we will probably discuss the option of UPS-type batteries in some sort of power house (though it's not a priority because I can feed to the grid everything I don't use, and I'm not rich enough to pay for all the equipment to go off-grid.) What I wanted to say though was that in recent discussions I was quoted a figure of $550-$600 per kWh for NiCd batteries for EVs. Maybe this figure will be useful along with others in taking such batteries into account for home energy storage? To be sure, and I'll verify today, I think Lead solutions may still reign supreme in what are presented as "backup" UPS type solutions, but perhaps that will change going forward. Also *Battery Life* is important (critical) to understanding the cost of the battery. If I show you a 20 kWh battery system that costs $100 per kWh, and it lasts 500 cycles even if managed very well, and I show you another 20 kWh system that costs $500 per kWh, but it lasts 5000 cycles, with a gurantee and a similarly priced charger, then I think we can see that the second system is much less expensive unless you're confident that the lifetime of what you are installing will not need 500 cycles. For NiMH and Li-Ion, the theme of the conversation where I was quoted some figures for NiCD was that unfortunately the scale of production for the larger EV traction batteries was not yet sufficient to achieve the economies of scale that would take these down, say, below $1000 per kWh. That figure wasn't quoted to me, I just have a sense of it (probably wrong) for some reason. For example, I guess if you wanted a Li-Ion 25kWh battery for some super-prototype EV car you're working on, I'd have a hard time imagining you getting it for less than $25k, and probably more. In bulk, I think those figures would come down. For NiMH, I know I've heard some mass-production projections *from a manufacturer* that I might be able to dig up if it would be helpful to you. Even though this is for EVs, I think they could be somewhat applied to general-energy storage. For your projects for your web page, have you developed any thinking about water? I know the topic does not integrate directly, but the more I think about it, the more I am trying to learn about how water functions on my property, what do I need to be concerned about with respect to erosion, how can I make better use of rain water incident on my roof, how is some of my garden automated, etc. If-when I install things like solar, another cost this will compete with is the cost of installing some mangement of the water for better conservation. If-when we all are asked to try a little Hydrogen, this may partly fit in with my plan to install a reverse-osmosis water filteration system. And then there is the power that could be stored in a few hundred pounds of water which might be repeatedly allowed to fall from a height (i.e., micro hydro power). This last one I doubt I could implement or that many could, but I just wonder, futuristically, if the idea could have any merit. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
