Le vendredi 12 septembre 2008 à 00:49 +0200, Loïc Minier a écrit : > On Thu, Sep 11, 2008, yannick wrote: > > > > This has been fixed. Try the new packages from today. > > > Will do. Or I guess I should jhbuild my own to make sure I don't lag > > > WRT fixed bugs. > > Ekiga is a small team of volunteer. I took the responsibility to provide > > Ubuntu packages, but computers is not my business: I'm teacher in a > > french primary school. I built new packs last night on my spare time and > > could only upload them this evening when coming back from work. One of > > our dev reworked the build process and I had to adapt to this huge > > change. Unfortunately it took more time than i hoped. Now, I hope to be > > able to update the packs almost daily. (and i plan to add Gutsy this > > evening, including LPAI+H264 codec). This also explain why the packages > > are not polished as they could be. I'm working on several parts of the > > ekiga project... > > I think you read my comment as a critic, but it wasn't meant to be. > It's just a fact that many of the bugs I experienced in testing the > latest snapshot package were fixed upstream already, so instead of > testing the "new packages from today" to which I might only come in a > couple of days, I'll just jhbuild ptlib/opal/ekiga and hence avoid the > risk.
I'm building daily now, but there is no guarantee i'll will do it like this in the future. We will release in a few days (GNOME hard code freeze is th e15th september and GNOME next release is 24 september), i plan to build daily until the GNOME release... I hope you will continue to critic our software :) > > > > > If Ubuntu is kind enough to provide a proxy for VoIP, it could work all > > > > the times... The same apply to Empathy using protocols like SIP. > > > What do you mean by Ubuntu and a proxy? You mean a proxy on some > > > public servers in *.ubuntu.com? Not sure how it would help traversing > > > firewalls and routers. > > e.g. Jabber protocol use a central server which act as a proxy, MSN > > network do the same, etc. > > Ok, I thought you meant a SIP proxy; you meant some NAT traversal > servers, understood. ok > > > > > > - locking assertion failures on console in libxcb :-/ > > > > Please try the latest package, or report the bug upstream. > > > Well it was the latest this morning! Sure, I'll report the bug. > > I wish I had more time for Ekiga... Thank you! > > Your initial statement implied that I should have reported the bug > upstream or tried out the latest package, which confused me since I > used the latest package at the time of my tests. Now I understand that > what you were really meaning to say is that I should try the new latest > package and if that one would still fail then report the bug upstream. > > Again, I think you read the above as a critic; I was just confused, I'm > sure you see why. Sorry for the confusion. > > [ on notification area emblems ] > > If we consider the question deeply, I personally do think dedicated > > clients to one protocol like Gossip or Ekiga is the right way to go. > > Empathy brings compatibility to the GNU/Linux desktop at the price of > > reducing a rich feature set to a small set of one to one feature. > > > > I hope one day, one standard will win, no matter if it is SIP, or XMPP, > > or some mix of them. Several protocols for the same type of feature is > > just bad and hurts usability deeply. The future of SIP, or XMPP, is some > > kind of desktop and internet/mobile integrated groupware. > > > > Having a distinguish set of icon for each application is just a > > workaround for a need that cannot really get its satisfaction. > > Having different icons is just the best thing for now; it might be true > that in the future one of Ekiga or Gossip or Empathy simply wins, or > that one particular protocol wins, but /right now/ I can't use empathy > for video calls and I can't use ekiga for chat. > We have music and video players in the desktop right now, perhaps not > for long as we see Banshee supporting videos and Totem managing a > library, but right now these two apps have distinct identities and are > not using the same "Music and video playback" branding. We do not have much designers ressources... We will be happy if some external contributor provides us a new set of icon. > > > > The Game example makes sense to me, but I still feel disturbed by Chat > > > > Quit, especially since I don't use ekiga for "chat" but really for > > > "calls" or "conferences", but I understand why you settled for Chat and > > > put Quit in there. Still feels kind of weird to me. :-/ > > Ekiga 3.0 aims to provide audio calls, video calls or text conversation > > with presence support. You should consider SIP for what it is: a > > protocol for rich instant communication using several medias (text, > > audio and video). SIP aims to do the same features as XMPP. > > > > "Chat" seems the appropriate word for what ekiga 3.0 will be able to do. > > "Call" do not sounds right for text messages. > > Again I "understand why you settled for Chat"; still feel kind of weird > to me because I don't use Ekiga in all its future glory yet. Well, I'm sorry, but i could answer you: I do. Thus what should we do? > > > It is an artificial definition to try to separate XMPP client like > > gossip for "chat" and SIP client like EKiga for "Call". > > I made this distinction because I don't use Ekiga for chat; it's not > artificial, just my use case. I don't use Gimp to view my images, yet > it can view and edit images. It's called Image editor, not Image > viewer, because people have image viewers and wouldn't casually use > Gimp as an Image viewer but rather to edit images. Well, the analogy with an image editor is wrong, it would be better to compare with e.g. OpenOffice.org and Microsoft Word. Protocols aims almost the same, issue is with interoperability, not with features. SIP is able to do text conversion 1 to 1, in a room for a bunch of people, you can have avatars with SIP, you even can have SIP act as instant email for groups (the "reply all" feature) or add a text media to a "call" (i.e. audio+video+text) in a conference room with some mechanisms like people being operators with the ability to transfer people to a sub-conference etc. Ekiga do not implement all those feature yet, but it is the aim of SIP. And the aim of Ekiga is to support SIP as much as possible (and maybe some other protocols too). If a user of Photoshop says: "I do not use Gimp for editing but just for viewing some weird picture formats and I use photoshop for my daily editing work and sometime to view pictures", that doesn't mean Gimp is not able to do good editing work. Ekiga support text, audio and video medias since years. The term "chat" is good enough, even if another term could be better. > > > The issue is we have several protocols aiming the same set of feature, > > because there is only one need: to chat with contacts, using several > > ways: text, audio and video (and maybe even more in the future...). > > It's not really the issue I have: it's rather that I feel like I have > suitable instant text messaging clients and only see Ekiga as one > actually capable of video or even audio. You're moving the debate to > protocols, but I really think "what software is the best for this use > case". Issue is with user base. Today, free standards are not the most used in the world, thus people coming to Ubuntu ask for MSN, Skype etc. support. What is best do not matter if you follow what people want. Groups are conservative: you wont switch a group to a new protocol with the same set of feature if only 1 people do not want to switch. But, you can show people a better tool, easy to use, and usable on many platform. I hope to reach that with Ekiga one day. Firefox did it... Best regards, Yannick -- Me joindre en téléphonie IP / vidéoconférence ? sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Logiciel de VoIP Ekiga : http://www.ekiga.org http://wiki.ekiga.org/index.php/Which_programs_work_with_Ekiga_%3F -- Ubuntu-mobile mailing list [email protected] Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-mobile
