Chemical Engineer <cheme...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is 110 MW on 1,600 acres. That is excellent power density. Better >> than uranium fission or coal, when you take into account the land needed >> for the mines and railroads to transport the fuel. >> >> That is terrible power density. > No, it isn't. As I showed in subsequent messages, a 1,600 acre strip mine producing power at this rate would only last 30 years. This will last indefinitely. > If you are going to use railroads & mines you need to take into account > mining and transportation for glass and rare earths used in csp and pv. > The mass of those materials is less than one trainload of coal for a typical plant. Trains are dispatched to a coal plant weekly for the entire time it is in operation. The total amount of mass that is processed is many orders of magnitude greater than for CSP. > You also need to take into account all of the fossil fuels required to > clean millions of mirrors you are talking about. > It does not take fossil fuels. This can be done with electrically powered robotic equipment, powered by the CSP itself. The energy overhead is very small. > Luz installations require frequent washing and blowdown in the middle of > the desert! Where/how are you getting that water? > As shown in the documentation it takes very little water to clean them. In this case, all of the water they need is available in the 1,600 acre lot. Again, it takes many orders of magnitude less water than a conventional coal steam plant. Last time i looked i did not see alot of existing high voltage transmission > lines running through the mohave and sahara... > Look at the photos of this site and you will see they chose it because it has high voltage lines nearby. > That price does not include the cost of the land that is destroyed by >> fraking. Add that in and we are paying a fortune and destroying our living >> space, our wildlife and our future. >> > > But you are OK filling up the Mohave with solar panels, washing vehicles > and transmission lines and irrigation lines? > Absolutely I am! It is infinitely better than killing 20,000 people a year, or causing global warming. Every technology requires a trade off. This one is reasonable. > Killing thousands of birds with thousands of megawatts of concentrated > flux. Crushing tortoises, etc > Strip mining kills far more wildlife than this will. The smoke from coal kills millions of birds. In any case, it is better than killing people or causing global warming. > Yes CSP does cost more. $2.2B for 392 MW at Ivanpah is a taxpayer and > consumer rip-off. That is 4-5 times the cost of a gas turbine plant. > 1. It will cost far less if it is scaled up and mass produced. Mirrors are cheap. The materials are abundant. 2. The cost of a gas turbine plant, if you factor in global warming, would be incalculable. It might cause the extinction of millions of species, and kill billions of people. No one knows how bad it might get. - Jed
