When I ask "What is the reality?", what could be my apriori definition ? I asked that question because of my suffering. I observed that suffering was only a subjective perception. Then what is that which is objective ? Is there even something like that ? Could there be an end to suffering ? I didnt know the answer to that. Its not a mere play of thought. Someone offers me a potion which will end all my suffering. I believe in that magic potion and drink it and see if it works. The main point here is that I am taking the risk and am willing to try. For fuck's sake, if I want to learn how to swim, I don't already know how to swim apriori. It takes practice to understand what it is. If someone asks you what is an orgasm, you have to jerk off once to know what it is. It is not already known. By the way, what you are indulging in is called as mental masturbation.
On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Kuber Technologies < [email protected]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:17 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> For me the question is not so much 'What is enlightenment?', the big >> question is 'How will I know enlightenment took place?'. >> > > > Yes. > > Which means that there has to be an apriori defining(aka a set of > sensations, symptoms, or developed powers which were absent, i.e. waking on > water, raising the dead etc)..... > > .....and the matching of the experience with that apriori defining. > > The matching may well happen. > > But just as the defining is a mere play of thought............. so is the > matching ..... > > ......and so is the consequential conclusion and the subsequent shouting > from the rooftops of the proclamation in defense. > > A amusing hoopla of thought. > > > Take the question in reverse. > > How can it be known that enlightened state is not the case already? > > Which also needs an apriori defining of the enlightened state. > > If this reversed question is viewed with that .............a defining no > matter how profound the definition is creativity of thought...... > > ..the very issue of enlightenment( as already the case or is yet to > happen)... > > the totality of the issue .....becomes moot ...... > > > ..........and the viewing implodes into an apperception.... > > ....that what is...........is just exactly so, lacking in nothing. > > > > And in and as that very exactly so-lacking-in-nothing..... > > ....the appearance of the drama of lack( of whatever)...... > > .....as a display of what lack could be........... if a lack could ever be. > > > > Akin the hunger pangs so acutely felt in your last night sleep dream drama, > while sound asleep after a belly full of the finest Polynesian cuisine for > dinner. > > > > > >> That remained unanswered. >> > > > Sang a dude while dancing on the slopes of lower Himalayas, some 10 > thousand years back > > "No answers received > No questions left". > > > > > > > > > > >> Sent via BlackBerry from Vodafone >> ------------------------------ >> *From: * Mark Ty-Wharton <[email protected]> >> *Date: *Fri, 23 Jul 2010 07:34:13 +0100 >> *To: *roomsearching<[email protected]> >> *Cc: *[email protected]<[email protected]>; Advaita< >> [email protected]> >> *Subject: *Re: tinnitus >> >> Thanks RS I will try and see what happens. >> >> Sent from an iPhone >> >> On 23 Jul 2010, at 06:19, roomsearching <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> I was very much driven by my quest to find "what is real?" and "who am I?" >> . >> This was enough to keep me in that self-enquiry for a year. >> If this exercise bores you, I think you may have to find another way. >> As UG used to say, you have to have a burning question. For UG, it was >> "What is enlightenment?" >> For me it was, "What is real? " . At first, I believed that "I am" was the >> reality. >> So I happily stayed in the "I am" until a few changes happened. >> Finally to my surprise, there was no "I am" and there was another "I" >> which had arisen. >> It was the Self. >> >> The steps are as follows : >> >> 1) Ask yourself "Who am I?" >> 2) Observe the subtle changes that take place when you ask this question. >> 3)Look for any concentrated spots of awareness which build up when you ask >> this question. >> 4)When you find a small pin point of awareness as the centre of all this >> questioning, it will be the Self. >> >> I am sure this can be broken down into many more steps. >> >> But also if you eat only fruits and vegetables for a few days, this can be >> more helpful to your Self-enquiry. >> >> If you want more instructions on Self Enquiry, please read Ramana's >> instructions. You can go to this link : >> <http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/bookstall/downloadbooks.html> >> http://www.sriramanamaharshi.org/bookstall/downloadbooks.html >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Mark Ty-Wharton <<[email protected]> >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Yes but how RS >>> >>> I am genuinely interested and willing to believe you know the steps >>> >>> Set me some exercises and I will do them >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> Sent from an iPhone >>> >>> On 22 Jul 2010, at 17:12, roomsearching < <[email protected]> >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> No, it is not. Try for a few days. Don't post until you find it. >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:11 PM, < >>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I can't find it, where is it? >>>> All I can find is a void. Is that it? >>>> >>>> Sent via BlackBerry from Vodafone >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From: * roomsearching < <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> >>>> *Date: *Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:09:09 +0100 >>>> *To: *Mark Ty-Wharton< <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> >>>> *Cc: *< <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]>; Advaita< >>>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> >>>> *Subject: *Re: tinnitus >>>> >>>> The steps are like this : >>>> >>>> 1) Ask yourself "Who am I ?" with a deep feeling. Keep asking this >>>> continuously for a few days. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2) Try to locate it.... is it from your head ? Where are you ? Who are >>>> you ? what are you ? Keep asking. >>>> Look for where "I" is arising from within your field of consciousness. >>>> It has to be from within you. Where is it ? >>>> >>>> The source will be revealed. Be patient and keep repeating this >>>> exercise. There is a centre of your whole being. >>>> The answer can be found. Trust me. It is the central switch of your >>>> whole system. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Use your own awareness to find its source. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Mark Ty-Wharton >>>> <<[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Okay, willing to try your method. >>>>> >>>>> Give me specific instructions say ten steps - how to sit - what to say >>>>> - where to look? >>>>> >>>>> I disagree that the person disappears forever, then again I would >>>>> >>>>> an experience of enlightenment happened in my car >>>>> >>>>> there was bliss >>>>> >>>>> it was a bit boring, like taking heroin >>>>> >>>>> lasted hours >>>>> >>>>> got annoying >>>>> >>>>> I (or should I say annoyance and frustration) came back >>>>> >>>>> Bliss is available >>>>> >>>>> And... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 22 July 2010 14:14, roomsearching < >>>>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> All experience arises because of your consciousness which perceives >>>>>> everything around you. >>>>>> So consciousness comes out of its source, gives life to the sense >>>>>> organs and enjoys the world of sensory experiences. >>>>>> In reality there is only you and all experiences are only your >>>>>> experiences. >>>>>> All that you have ever known is only your own memory and perception >>>>>> recorded in your brain. >>>>>> There are no others. There is only you. >>>>>> And that you is powered by consciousness which arises from the source. >>>>>> >>>>>> To find the source, you have to do Self Enquiry. >>>>>> When you find the source, all that you are looking for in the world >>>>>> becomes meaningless. >>>>>> Because all that you are searching for is only your source because of >>>>>> the wholeness and bliss which it is. >>>>>> All the laws, morals, religions, history, science in your brain is >>>>>> only useless because it is all powered by consciousness. >>>>>> It arises from a hole in your chest. Find it! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:54 PM, < >>>>>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> How can the source of all experience be experienced? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from Vodafone >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From: * roomsearching < >>>>>>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> *Sender: * <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> *Date: *Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:50:24 +0100 >>>>>>> *To: *Mark Ty-Wharton< >>>>>>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> *Cc: * <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> [email protected]< >>>>>>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: tinnitus >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unless you find the source of the Self, just knowing that you are >>>>>>> awareness is not yet Self-realization. >>>>>>> It is only partial. >>>>>>> To complete the process, you have to find the source. >>>>>>> When the source is found, the person will never be able to arise >>>>>>> again. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Mark Ty-Wharton >>>>>>> <<[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The point you are missing RS is that self-realisation doesn't happen >>>>>>>> to anyone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> YOU cannot be self realised - nobody can - the realisation is the >>>>>>>> recognition that YOU made YOU up >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Then YOU simply disappear, fall away, in the arising awareness >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But YOU are not the awareness >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Awareness just IS >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Realisation just IS >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nothing happens to a person >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The PERSON arises again in the awareness >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> But if the PERSON now claims to be self-realised, then enlightenment >>>>>>>> is again lost. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Take a step back into yourself and question the questioner >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Who is it that is self realised? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you see what there is to be seen there will be an understanding >>>>>>>> of the apparent ridicule showing up in this group. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hope that helps. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now choose... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Aha? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 22 July 2010 12:01, roomsearching < >>>>>>>> <[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of course, I am facing that anger from many people here. In fact >>>>>>>>> two strangers by the name Vijaya and some other idiot (who I called >>>>>>>>> Indian >>>>>>>>> cunts) >>>>>>>>> jumped on me and started giving me lectures telling me I have a >>>>>>>>> mental problem. This happened exactly at the moment I made the >>>>>>>>> mistake of >>>>>>>>> telling everybody here that I am self-realized. Besides, I am facing >>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>> failure of a person called Sandeep often ridiculing my experiences. I >>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>> most people think that realization happens to only famous people. And >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> famous people are being slagged off(Osho or UG) as fake, why should I >>>>>>>>> expect >>>>>>>>> someone to believe my story ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Mark Ty-Wharton >>>>>>>>> <<[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I used to be vehemently angry about life and people like you would >>>>>>>>>> push all my buttons and I would react. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Let's get this straight. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a long way to go to be in PERMANENT bliss and yet... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When people post in such a way as to rub against my fragile ego, I >>>>>>>>>> feel no need to react. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The level of bliss I carry and or my current level of dissociation >>>>>>>>>> or separation from ego is perhaps enough there is a realisation this >>>>>>>>>> rubbing >>>>>>>>>> up against my beliefs about the way things should be is not >>>>>>>>>> happening to a >>>>>>>>>> "me" it is simply happening and the "me" reacts and is mostly >>>>>>>>>> ignored. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A "person" trying to be in bliss would almost certainly get >>>>>>>>>> annoyed and lash out against those upsetting his equilibrium. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When you give up the pretence of self realisation and the counter >>>>>>>>>> pretence of anger, name calling and self righteousness, you can >>>>>>>>>> throw away >>>>>>>>>> the books you cling to! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from an iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 22 Jul 2010, at 05:45, roomsearching >>>>>>>>>> <<[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All the physical symptoms are of Kundalini, so there is no >>>>>>>>>> question of going to a hospital with Kundalini.I understand that you >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> some bastard who has no respect for the word "Kundalini" when so >>>>>>>>>> many people >>>>>>>>>> are having genuine experiences of it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There is a difference between the belief "I am self-realized" and >>>>>>>>>> the fact that "I am self-realized". >>>>>>>>>> If you fell down from a tree, you may not believe it >>>>>>>>>> ................or you just know it happened. >>>>>>>>>> It is not a belief, it is true knowledge. It is true knowing. It >>>>>>>>>> is so strong that it can change your life of inconsistencies into a >>>>>>>>>> permanent blissful and absolutely still and always in the moment - >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> cannot happen with a belief. >>>>>>>>>> You can just say that you do want to believe that it did not >>>>>>>>>> happen to me. So why such a strong belief ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Psylium may be good for you which is your personal belief. >>>>>>>>>> But your doctor's prescriptions may not necessarily be applicable >>>>>>>>>> to everyone. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:12 AM, Kuber Technologies >>>>>>>>>> <<[email protected]><[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:30 AM, roomsearching >>>>>>>>>>> <<[email protected]><[email protected]><[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There are some physical signs and symptoms which have manifested >>>>>>>>>>>> in my case. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If that is so, the urgent and serious( you are big on seriousness >>>>>>>>>>> isn't it) ... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ...need to visit a hospital, specially the psychiatric ward. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All the signs agree with the literature and I have confirmed >>>>>>>>>>>> them after almost an year of research. >>>>>>>>>>>> I finally realized that I am self-realized after one year of >>>>>>>>>>>> clarification. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The sense of investment in an identity. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just a little intelligence can see that there is no difference >>>>>>>>>>> between the belief I am Joe-the-plumber and the belief I am self >>>>>>>>>>> realized. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At least Joe silently carries on plumbing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sometimes people get self-realized but they do not even know it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> People do not get self-realized. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Whether there is a ranting about it or the advent of a total >>>>>>>>>>> silence..... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ....silence itself apperceiving that in the absence of the >>>>>>>>>>> other... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ...to whom is a proclamation, any proclamation ........to be >>>>>>>>>>> addressed to. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The apperceiving that without a need of a proclamation to be >>>>>>>>>>> delivered to.......can there ever be a loci of such a proclamation >>>>>>>>>>> to rest >>>>>>>>>>> upon.. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In your case you come here and write your stupid essays which >>>>>>>>>>>> show your mangled and mutilated mindset. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Opinion noted. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All you can say is that I should go to a doctor. >>>>>>>>>>>> Obviously you have no idea what the whole game is about. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The whole game is a wholesome idea. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So get the basics right before you write something about >>>>>>>>>>>> Advaita. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You might sound like someone who knows what non-duality is. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But the problem is, you are a still a fucking idiot whose >>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness is still stuck in the basal chakra of the asshole. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Again a little, a tiny weeny amount of intelligence could have >>>>>>>>>>> seen an asshole is a hole. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The Mooldhara Chakra is located at the base of the spine. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But then maybe a case of chronic constipation could be the cause >>>>>>>>>>> of all the symptoms on which you have bee researching for a year. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Try the natural laxative......Psyllium husk, one teaspoon first >>>>>>>>>>> thing every morning >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's great in clearing up all passages, of all ideations and >>>>>>>>>>> symptoms. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So first raise your awareness to a higher level which requires >>>>>>>>>>>> seriousness. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Naaaah. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The patent on idiocy is with RS. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >
