Matt, That response works but I believe you also need to suggest options for them to achieve the same thing like purchasing the USB ethernet adapter for example.
I find customers like options or more than one choice. On Fri, Jan 24, 2020, 11:52 AM Matt Hoppes < [email protected]> wrote: > Our answer: > > I'm sorry but if you can't plug in to test we can send a tech out if > you're 100% certain there is an issue, but if it turns out to work fine > when plugged in there will be a $50 dispatch fee. > > On 1/24/20 12:35 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Out of curiosity, what do you tell customers who say they don’t own a > > computer? Not being hypothetical or argumentative, I am actually > > getting that maybe 50% of the time now. > > > > If they say their computer is a laptop without an Ethernet jack, I tell > > them to buy a $5 Ethernet cable and a $20 USB-Ethernet dongle at Best > > Buy for testing purposes. But I don’t have a good response to the > > people who have no computer at all, other than a truck roll to test it > > ourselves, which of course is what we want to avoid unless there’s an > > actual problem. > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl > > *Sent:* Friday, January 24, 2020 11:22 AM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest > > > > I think I replied what we tell customers. We don't support any speedtest > > except what our guide says to do. I'll attach it here. This means no > > Google wifi tests or orbi, etc. > > > > We will still troubleshoot and check Calix for any performance issues > > but if the complaint is simply a speedtest and we aren't getting what we > > pay for, we send them our guide and only accept results following it. > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020, 11:03 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > Maybe start a new Calix thread? My original post was about the > > speedtest built into Google routers and if anyone knew how it worked > > and whether it has accuracy problems. > > > > I dislike the Google/Nest routers and discourage customers from > > using them, but saying I should deploy Calix everywhere doesn’t > > really address my question which comes from customers reporting > > alleged problems reported by their Google automatic speedtests. > > That’s a little harder to troubleshoot than a customer calling > > because they are having trouble streaming Disney+ right now, or > > getting bad speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net> results right now. > > It’s more like my Google report says I haven’t been getting what I > > pay you for over the past couple weeks. > > > > Especially confusing, this customer claimed the bad results started > > right around the time we added his tower to our Preseem system. > > That’s strange since we’ve been gradually rolling out Preseem for a > > year now and it has made things better not worse. Also Preseem > > gives us lots of additional graphs which show this customer’s speed > > and latency on real traffic has been picture perfect. If I look at > > Google FAQs and blog posts regarding their speedtest, there seems to > > be two variants. The M-Lab one appears to be quite old, with some > > questionable approaches like single TCP connection and avoiding > > nearby servers, as well as currently undergoing a major TCP/IP > > algorithm change based on a change in philosophy regarding what > > constitutes congestion, and packet loss vs bufferbloat. But it > > sounds like the speedtest built into the Google routers may test to > > Google servers, specifically Youtube. > > > > If built in automated speedtests are a trend, I expect to hear more > > of these complaints. Even if you provide a managed “residential > > gateway” type of solution, you can’t stop people from putting their > > own networking devices behind it. All the major vendors are trying > > to sell smart home ecosystems that integrate with or are controlled > > by a router type device. If you’ve bought into the Google Nest > > ecosystem, you have your Nest Thermostat, Nest Hubs, Nest Minis, > > Google Home, all talking to your Nest WiFi mesh system. You tell > > your Nest Hub “Hey Google, check my Internet speed” and the Nest Hub > > tells the Nest WiFi to run a speedtest and then the Hub says “your > > Internet sucks” or whatever. > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett > > *Sent:* Friday, January 24, 2020 10:28 AM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest > > > > I'm not coming up with my own anything. I'm not having to code > > anything. It's standards. Standards that Calix took and pay-walled. > > > > The software I'm using is the same software Calix forked. > > > > > > > > ----- > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< > https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< > https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< > https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From: *"Darin Steffl" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Sent: *Friday, January 24, 2020 9:59:49 AM > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest > > > > I'd say I have the technical ability to do something other than > > Calix but you are correct, I do not have the desire to do anything > else. > > > > I'm busy adding revenue into the company by upgrading the network, > > increasing plan prices, adding TV & Phone, targeting business > > customers, etc. All of this is way more important to grow the > > business than trying to come up with our own Management router > > platform. It would only hurt us to not use something like Calix that > > works out of the box. I suggest you try to think less like a > > techie/geek and more like a business person who likes profit. This > > would change your mindset I think into using easy management > > platforms that cost a little money. We pay $0.51 per month/sub for > > Calix Cloud which is extremely affordable to me. For that small > > amount, I don't need any servers, VM's, or coding knowledge. > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > That would be incorrect. I have Calix DSLAMs and have worked > > with Calix for a few years. Their paid support leaves much to be > > desired. Obvious SNMP bug is obvious and they don't care. > > > > I'm not going to say the Calix product is a bad product, but > > there's a severe amount of fanboyism around it that I believe is > > unwarranted. I don't believe people actually looked into > > alternatives. > > > > I have to setup and manage a server? So? It's just another VM on > > the existing platform. > > > > Saving money isn't my only drive. Having a more flexible system > > has its advantages. > > > > It seems as though you don't have the technical desire to do > > something not Calix... and that's fine, but it's not the only > > (or even best) way to skin the cat. > > > > > > > > ----- > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< > https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< > https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< > https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From: *"Darin Steffl" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Sent: *Friday, January 24, 2020 8:54:12 AM > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest > > > > Mike, > > > > It's apparent to me that you have not demoed or had physical > > Calix products in your hand before. What you just proposed > > requires much more hands-on setup and support than Calix which > > is all handled by them with a technical team to back it up. Your > > solution requires you to deploy one or more servers, set them > > up, make sure they don't go down, then pray that you or the > > vendor can help fix an issue when it shows up. I guarantee that > > all costs much more money than what we pay Calix in terms of > > actual license costs and labor savings. > > > > Plus I'm positive Calix hardware performs better than any other > > router you find like Comtrend and the mesh solution won't be as > > pretty or seamless either. Probably not one-touch like Calix is. > > > > You think you're going to save money with your own solution but > > all you'll do is spend more time and money than I do and have a > > worse platform. There's a reason why so many telcos deploy Calix > > and it's because it's cheaper in the long run from labor > > efficiencies and better customer experience. > > > > I keep preaching to WISP's that doing everything yourself is > > hurting your business. Outsource what doesn't make you money. > > Managing servers and playing with Linux, etc does NOT make you > > money. Adding new customer revenue does that for you so deploy > > solutions that require as little of your time as possible so you > > can focus on selling and increasing revenue. Calix allows us to > > do that as well as Preseem & Azotel. If we tried to do what > > you're doing, we would be stuck in the mud messing around and > > not making as much money. > > > > On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:45 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > The road we're going down is likely Comtrend routers with a > > Finepoint ACS. > > > > The Calix system is just a fork of an earlier Finepoint > product. > > > > TR-069 and TR-143 manage most of the fancy features people > > that love Calix love to boast about. > > > > The advantage of something like this is that there is no > > vendor lock-in. One dashboard to support any device in the > > field, though the capabilities of that management would > > depend on what the device manufacturer has decided to > implement. > > > > There are standards such as IEEE 1905 and the WiFi > > Alliance's Easy Mesh that intelligently handle cross-vendor > > meshing, so nothing special about the Calix meshing either. > > > > > > > > ----- > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< > https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< > https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< > https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From: *"Tushar Patel" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Sent: *Friday, January 24, 2020 8:32:59 AM > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest > > > > And the Alternatives are? > > > > Tushar > > > > *From:*AF [mailto:[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Mike > Hammett > > *Sent:* Friday, January 24, 2020 8:31 AM > > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest > > > > There's no way Calix will get a dime from me. Everything is > > so expensive compared to alternatives. > > > > > > > > ----- > > Mike Hammett > > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< > https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< > https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< > https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< > https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From: *"Jason McKemie" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > *Sent: *Thursday, January 23, 2020 12:29:01 PM > > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest > > > > What does Calix get you for on the management? I've been > > looking into some options for managed routers, and I like > > the 844E, but Calix is pretty proud of their management > > platform and it just doesn't make a lot of sense for the > > number of managed routers we would be deploying right now. > > > > I'm wondering if anyone out there has any experience with > > Ubiquiti's Dream Machine (unfortunate name, since Sony has > > been using it for a couple of decades). At least Ubiquiti > > has a management platform that I don't need to sacrifice my > > firstborn for. > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:47 AM Darin Steffl > > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > wrote: > > > > Guys, > > > > Start heavily pushing managed routers. We're all Calix > > with 804mesh and we include the first router free in all > > our plans. > > > > Makes a huge difference. > > > > Google wifi is bad because there's no way to manually > > set the 5ghz channel away from our radio. We have one > > customer we told this and that their service will stink > > until they switch to our router or get a different mesh > > system like orbi where you can still set the channel > > manually. > > > > We also do not support any speedtest except > > speedtest.net <http://speedtest.net> and selecting one > > server we like. Also they have to be hardwired to the > > POE or we won't respond to their tests. This eliminates > > much of the back and forth wifi speedtests. > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 11:34 AM Matt Hoppes > > <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > I've had a slew of wifi related calls this week. > > Plug in, no issue. > > WiFi -- interference - customer needs to get a dual > > band router, or it's > > so bad it's just not fixable. > > > > I really just want to tell folks "WiFi is not > > supported on our service, > > use at your own risk"... but of course, I can't do > that. > > > > On 1/23/20 11:54 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > > Anybody know if the speedtest built into the > Google and Nest WiFi mesh > > > routers use the same M-Lab speedtest as the one a > Google search sends > > > you to? Their FAQ seems to indicate it is > different and tests to > > > Youtube servers. > > > > > > Apparently they have a feature where customers can > set it up to > > > periodically test their speed, and now I have > customers calling in to > > > report that their router says they aren’t getting > the speed they’re > > > paying for. We burn a bunch of time checking all > the stats, including > > > Preseem which shows no problems at all and actual > traffic consistently > > > to the speed plan they’re on. When asked what > they were trying to do > > > that was slow or when they ran the speedtest, they > can’t cite any > > > problems and the speedtests were done days ago and > they are just > > > reviewing the Google report. > > > > > > One guy said the Google report indicated his dish > moved in a windstorm > > > so we needed to come out and fix it. We have all > sorts of graphs on his > > > signal, SNR, etc. and his dish had not moved. We > had however moved this > > > tower onto Preseem for bandwidth management around > that time. Everyone > > > else is seeing better performance as a result, > video streaming, gaming > > > and web browsing now play nice together. I’m > wondering if somehow the > > > Google speedtest doesn’t like the Preseem > algorithms (FQ-CODEL + AQM), > > > or if their speedtest is just flakey. > > > > > > I don’t have a Google or Nest WiFi to test with. > We have a whole list > > > of other reasons why we hate them. Generally we > tell customers not to > > > buy them unless they are on a 3.65 GHz AP, but > customers like to say > > > screw you and then still expect you to be > responsible for their bad > > > decisions. (Like the customers who select the > cheap plan despite being > > > told it is too slow to watch streaming video, and > then call to complain > > > about streaming video.) > > > > > > Other reasons we hate them: > > > > > > - no dedicated backhaul channel, compared to (for > example) Netgear Orbi > > > > > > - only 1 or 2 Ethernet ports > > > > > > - requires Google account and app > > > > > > - requires cloud > > > > > > - uses Google DNS by default > > > > > > - tell me they’re not doing data mining > > > > > > - puck and point terminology is goofy, reminiscent > of Apple and their > > > airports and time capsules > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > > > > Darin Steffl > > > > Minnesota WiFi > > > > www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/> > > > > 507-634-WiFi > > > > <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook > > <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > > > > Darin Steffl > > > > Minnesota WiFi > > > > www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/> > > > > 507-634-WiFi > > > > <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook > > <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> > > > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > > AF mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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