Maybe start a new Calix thread? My original post was about the
speedtest built into Google routers and if anyone knew how it worked
and whether it has accuracy problems.
I dislike the Google/Nest routers and discourage customers from using
them, but saying I should deploy Calix everywhere doesn’t really
address my question which comes from customers reporting alleged
problems reported by their Google automatic speedtests. That’s a
little harder to troubleshoot than a customer calling because they are
having trouble streaming Disney+ right now, or getting bad
speedtest.net results right now. It’s more like my Google report says
I haven’t been getting what I pay you for over the past couple weeks.
Especially confusing, this customer claimed the bad results started
right around the time we added his tower to our Preseem system.
That’s strange since we’ve been gradually rolling out Preseem for a
year now and it has made things better not worse. Also Preseem gives
us lots of additional graphs which show this customer’s speed and
latency on real traffic has been picture perfect. If I look at Google
FAQs and blog posts regarding their speedtest, there seems to be two
variants. The M-Lab one appears to be quite old, with some
questionable approaches like single TCP connection and avoiding nearby
servers, as well as currently undergoing a major TCP/IP algorithm
change based on a change in philosophy regarding what constitutes
congestion, and packet loss vs bufferbloat. But it sounds like the
speedtest built into the Google routers may test to Google servers,
specifically Youtube.
If built in automated speedtests are a trend, I expect to hear more of
these complaints. Even if you provide a managed “residential gateway”
type of solution, you can’t stop people from putting their own
networking devices behind it. All the major vendors are trying to
sell smart home ecosystems that integrate with or are controlled by a
router type device. If you’ve bought into the Google Nest ecosystem,
you have your Nest Thermostat, Nest Hubs, Nest Minis, Google Home, all
talking to your Nest WiFi mesh system. You tell your Nest Hub “Hey
Google, check my Internet speed” and the Nest Hub tells the Nest WiFi
to run a speedtest and then the Hub says “your Internet sucks” or
whatever.
*From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, January 24, 2020 10:28 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest
I'm not coming up with my own anything. I'm not having to code
anything. It's standards. Standards that Calix took and pay-walled.
The software I'm using is the same software Calix forked.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Darin Steffl" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Friday, January 24, 2020 9:59:49 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest
I'd say I have the technical ability to do something other than Calix
but you are correct, I do not have the desire to do anything else.
I'm busy adding revenue into the company by upgrading the network,
increasing plan prices, adding TV & Phone, targeting business
customers, etc. All of this is way more important to grow the business
than trying to come up with our own Management router platform. It
would only hurt us to not use something like Calix that works out of
the box. I suggest you try to think less like a techie/geek and more
like a business person who likes profit. This would change your
mindset I think into using easy management platforms that cost a
little money. We pay $0.51 per month/sub for Calix Cloud which is
extremely affordable to me. For that small amount, I don't need any
servers, VM's, or coding knowledge.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:26 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
That would be incorrect. I have Calix DSLAMs and have worked with
Calix for a few years. Their paid support leaves much to be
desired. Obvious SNMP bug is obvious and they don't care.
I'm not going to say the Calix product is a bad product, but
there's a severe amount of fanboyism around it that I believe is
unwarranted. I don't believe people actually looked into alternatives.
I have to setup and manage a server? So? It's just another VM on
the existing platform.
Saving money isn't my only drive. Having a more flexible system
has its advantages.
It seems as though you don't have the technical desire to do
something not Calix... and that's fine, but it's not the only (or
even best) way to skin the cat.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Darin Steffl" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Friday, January 24, 2020 8:54:12 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest
Mike,
It's apparent to me that you have not demoed or had physical Calix
products in your hand before. What you just proposed requires much
more hands-on setup and support than Calix which is all handled by
them with a technical team to back it up. Your solution requires
you to deploy one or more servers, set them up, make sure they
don't go down, then pray that you or the vendor can help fix an
issue when it shows up. I guarantee that all costs much more money
than what we pay Calix in terms of actual license costs and labor
savings.
Plus I'm positive Calix hardware performs better than any other
router you find like Comtrend and the mesh solution won't be as
pretty or seamless either. Probably not one-touch like Calix is.
You think you're going to save money with your own solution but
all you'll do is spend more time and money than I do and have a
worse platform. There's a reason why so many telcos deploy Calix
and it's because it's cheaper in the long run from labor
efficiencies and better customer experience.
I keep preaching to WISP's that doing everything yourself is
hurting your business. Outsource what doesn't make you money.
Managing servers and playing with Linux, etc does NOT make you
money. Adding new customer revenue does that for you so deploy
solutions that require as little of your time as possible so you
can focus on selling and increasing revenue. Calix allows us to do
that as well as Preseem & Azotel. If we tried to do what you're
doing, we would be stuck in the mud messing around and not making
as much money.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 8:45 AM Mike Hammett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The road we're going down is likely Comtrend routers with a
Finepoint ACS.
The Calix system is just a fork of an earlier Finepoint product.
TR-069 and TR-143 manage most of the fancy features people
that love Calix love to boast about.
The advantage of something like this is that there is no
vendor lock-in. One dashboard to support any device in the
field, though the capabilities of that management would depend
on what the device manufacturer has decided to implement.
There are standards such as IEEE 1905 and the WiFi Alliance's
Easy Mesh that intelligently handle cross-vendor meshing, so
nothing special about the Calix meshing either.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Tushar Patel" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Friday, January 24, 2020 8:32:59 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest
And the Alternatives are?
Tushar
*From:*AF [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, January 24, 2020 8:31 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest
There's no way Calix will get a dime from me. Everything is so
expensive compared to alternatives.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Jason McKemie" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 23, 2020 12:29:01 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Google/Nest WiFi speedtest
What does Calix get you for on the management? I've been
looking into some options for managed routers, and I like the
844E, but Calix is pretty proud of their management platform
and it just doesn't make a lot of sense for the number of
managed routers we would be deploying right now.
I'm wondering if anyone out there has any experience with
Ubiquiti's Dream Machine (unfortunate name, since Sony has
been using it for a couple of decades). At least Ubiquiti has
a management platform that I don't need to sacrifice my
firstborn for.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020 at 11:47 AM Darin Steffl
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Guys,
Start heavily pushing managed routers. We're all Calix
with 804mesh and we include the first router free in all
our plans.
Makes a huge difference.
Google wifi is bad because there's no way to manually set
the 5ghz channel away from our radio. We have one customer
we told this and that their service will stink until they
switch to our router or get a different mesh system like
orbi where you can still set the channel manually.
We also do not support any speedtest except speedtest.net
<http://speedtest.net> and selecting one server we like.
Also they have to be hardwired to the POE or we won't
respond to their tests. This eliminates much of the back
and forth wifi speedtests.
On Thu, Jan 23, 2020, 11:34 AM Matt Hoppes
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I've had a slew of wifi related calls this week. Plug
in, no issue.
WiFi -- interference - customer needs to get a dual
band router, or it's
so bad it's just not fixable.
I really just want to tell folks "WiFi is not
supported on our service,
use at your own risk"... but of course, I can't do that.
On 1/23/20 11:54 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Anybody know if the speedtest built into the Google
and Nest WiFi mesh
> routers use the same M-Lab speedtest as the one a
Google search sends
> you to? Their FAQ seems to indicate it is different
and tests to
> Youtube servers.
>
> Apparently they have a feature where customers can
set it up to
> periodically test their speed, and now I have
customers calling in to
> report that their router says they aren’t getting
the speed they’re
> paying for. We burn a bunch of time checking all
the stats, including
> Preseem which shows no problems at all and actual
traffic consistently
> to the speed plan they’re on. When asked what they
were trying to do
> that was slow or when they ran the speedtest, they
can’t cite any
> problems and the speedtests were done days ago and
they are just
> reviewing the Google report.
>
> One guy said the Google report indicated his dish
moved in a windstorm
> so we needed to come out and fix it. We have all
sorts of graphs on his
> signal, SNR, etc. and his dish had not moved. We
had however moved this
> tower onto Preseem for bandwidth management around
that time. Everyone
> else is seeing better performance as a result, video
streaming, gaming
> and web browsing now play nice together. I’m
wondering if somehow the
> Google speedtest doesn’t like the Preseem algorithms
(FQ-CODEL + AQM),
> or if their speedtest is just flakey.
>
> I don’t have a Google or Nest WiFi to test with. We
have a whole list
> of other reasons why we hate them. Generally we tell
customers not to
> buy them unless they are on a 3.65 GHz AP, but
customers like to say
> screw you and then still expect you to be
responsible for their bad
> decisions. (Like the customers who select the cheap
plan despite being
> told it is too slow to watch streaming video, and
then call to complain
> about streaming video.)
>
> Other reasons we hate them:
>
> - no dedicated backhaul channel, compared to (for
example) Netgear Orbi
>
> - only 1 or 2 Ethernet ports
>
> - requires Google account and app
>
> - requires cloud
>
> - uses Google DNS by default
>
> - tell me they’re not doing data mining
>
> - puck and point terminology is goofy, reminiscent
of Apple and their
> airports and time capsules
>
>
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