LOL – I’ve been to places where that is actually common. :-/
*From: *Adam Moffett <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 28, 2020 8:49 AM
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
I guess since diapers don't stop farts just let the baby poop on the
floor.
On 10/28/2020 9:31 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:
I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that
relevant to virus transmission. Those videos deal droplet-sized
(and bigger) emissions. Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed
camera because they are too small. I heard a funny analogy that
stopping virus spread with a mask is like stopping a fart with a
diaper. Also not fully accurate but funny.
Is there benefit from stopping large droplets? That is the
question. So what happens to even the large droplets that get
trapped in a cloth mask? The droplets themselves will start to
evaporate and eventually you are left with aerosol sized or just
the virus particles themselves. They don’t just disappear right?
Now when you inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to escape
from the mask. And when you touch the mask, you move virus to
whatever you touch after that. And you bring it back to your car
or house or whatever because most people are not disposing of
masks or properly disinfecting them. So the mask is more of an
intermediary and not a virus destroyer.
Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the
cloud – it just moves the cloud around. I’m not aware of any
evidence that has shown a cloth mask has any benefit for slowing
virus spread in communities. Maybe one day we will have some kind
of force field bubble that can actually do that. The plastic
barriers are another example – coronaviruses survive quite well on
these surfaces so it might be having an overall opposite effect of
the intended purpose of slowing spread.
So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by
business owners and other private property owners. I just don’t
think it is doing much besides making folks feel like they are
doing something even if they aren’t. Absent the force field
bubble, the only way to stop transmission is to isolate humans,
but that’s a whole other can of worms…
*From: *Forrest Christian (List Account) <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer
from the virus. This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout
over and over and over again. And it's true. If you're wearing
a mask to prevent yourself from catching the virus, well, you're
effectively in the category of "something is better than nothing,
but not much".
However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that
seems to be quite contagious before symptoms appear. As a
result, if we can limit the amount of virus floating around in the
'cloud' around people who are contagious but don't know it that
will help. For this, masks are *very* effective, even cloth ones
although of course some are better than others. There are quite
a few videos out on the net from various organizations that have
simulated this in various ways.
For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s
<https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDNeYfUTA11s&data=04%7C01%7C%7C16d74c36d8d54fefc1e208d87b4847a8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637394897652440977%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xludaayVF4LId033u1gBVKjEMLXwBmbp1MlCaBNEpaM%3D&reserved=0>
A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is
limit the size of the cloud around people, with much of the
moisture particles (which contain the virus) being caught by the
mask. So, as is said over and over, wearing a mask is to protect
everyone around you, not you.
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner
requires a mask, it is their property and their right to
require it. So, wear it.
That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that
questions the efficacy of mask use in the general population
is assumed to be one of the “it’s a hoax” people right off the
bat. Masks have been around for a hundred years and up until
March or so of this year, it was generally accepted that mask
wearing by the general population isn’t helpful. So the
logical question is, what changed?
If the reason to wear a mask is to hide my ugly face, then,
ok, there’s a good argument there. If it is for some kind of
universal symbol to remind us to keep our distance from each
other, then, again, ok that might work. If we are all getting
N-95 masks and will be properly disposing of them after each
encounter/location and doing proper disinfection afterwards –
that too could work.
But if the argument is that we should wear neck gators and
cloth masks to protect our neighbors, well, I think there is
very little evidence to support this (and again was generally
accepted until March 2020). I’ve personally seen my father
get closer and closer to others while wearing a mask because
he can’t understand wtf the other person is saying. So, in
these cases, it is discouraging the proven method to slow
spread (distance).
In my mind, these are 2 different things though:
1. following the rules set on private property by the owners
of that property
2. questioning if this is a valid mitigation strategy or just
virtue signaling and/or is there a better way
Perhaps this could be more useful:
*From: *Jay Weekley <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:51 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
We've lost a certain degree of social decency. We have a
mandatory mask
order but it's not enforced; however, the "it's a hoax" or
"you can't
tell me what to do" folks that won't wear one don't seem to
get that if
the person you're interacting with is wearing a mask then
there is a
pretty good chance they would like you to wear one too. If
the cashier
is wearing a mask then put one on yourself regardless of what
your
opinion of the virus is.
Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Unfortunately attitudes sometimes take a generation to
change. When I
> was young, people smoked everywhere, then they started having
> designated smoking areas, now smokers are pariahs. Used to
be, if
> your dog pooped on someone else’s lawn, you left it for them
to pick
> up. People used to chew tobacco and spit on the sidewalk.
Buffets
> didn’t used to have sneezeguards. It took Seinfeld to make
“double
> dipping” a taboo. Other things like seatbelts and child
seats have
> gone from controversial to the societal norm. Probably
motorcycle
> helmets are the exception, mostly because the only harm to
others is
> they have to see your brains all over the road if you get in
an accident.
>
> It’s interesting how worked up some people get at women
breastfeeding
> in public, but asking that you wear a piece of cloth over
your nose
> and mouth when indoors and within close proximity to others
while
> there is a highly infectious respiratory disease
circulating, well,
> that’s an intolerable infringement on your freedom.
>
> Even the stores with the “no shoes, no shirt, no service”
policy,
> where was the outrage over that? What about restaurants that
require
> men to wear a coat and tie? I’m not a big fan, but hey,
your house,
> your rules.
>
> We seem to have lost the ability to respect others. Like
covering
> your head or taking off your shoes when going into some
houses of
> worship, that’s not a violation of your freedom, it’s
respecting others.
>
> With the Covid pandemic, though, I don’t think we have time
to wait a
> generation. Think of all the people who died waiting
decades for
> cigarettes to become uncool. I will say, when I see the
young kids in
> stores and other public places with masks, they seem to
think it’s no
> different than wearing underwear or shoes. The next
generation will
> probably wonder what all the fuss was about. I just hope the
50% of
> people who are saying they won’t get the vaccine when it
comes out
> change their mind, I’ve heard numbers like 80% will probably
need to
> get it, or we’ll be wearing masks forever. Even so, nobody
knows if
> the shots will last 3 months or a year or longer. I’ve
mostly never
> gotten flu shots, but we’ll probably need to get Covid shots
every
> year forever. I don’t see it getting eradicated like smallpox.
>
> *From:* AF <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 4:45 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
>
> Stay safe guys. We have my cousins husband die from it two
weeks
> ago...33 years old .
>
> My wife wears N95 masks, gloves, face shields , goggles,
full ppe garb
> at work everyday....she changes out in our back porch,
including
> shoes...we spray them with Lysol...showers as soon as she
comes inside
> home..
>
> She has diabetes...
>
> I am about to hit 65 in November...taking no chances
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 3:37 PM Bill Prince
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> We spent the last week at Lake Tahoe. Almost everywhere
we went
> mask wearing was near 100%, until Friday, we went to a
restaurant
> for lunch. They had set up booths outdoors with plexiglass
> dividers and plenty of distance. all the employees wore
masks;
> they even provided a virtual menu via a QR Code that was
on a card
> on the table (so far so good).
>
> When it came time to leave, my partner had to visit the
restroom.
> She had to walk past the bar, where she said they were
crowded,
> shoulder to shoulder, and zero masks. As Tony Fauci
commented
> "Nothing good is going to come from that."
>
> I'm a 70-year-old guy, and while I think I'm in pretty
good shape,
> I do not have ready access to any monoclonal antibodies,
nor do I
> expect to in the next 6 months.
>
> bp
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/26/2020 2:20 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> We are on a curfew watch and stay at home order....
fucking
> selfish people out at bars and restaurants, home
parties...
>
> My son was in New Zealand for three months... they
had their
> shit together.
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 1:21 PM Matt Hoppes
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> Hold on. Reading your email I am getting conflicting
> information. You said that this seems like it’s
a joke but
> then also that you’ve moved everyone who can remote.
>
> I disagree we have hospitals that are being
overwhelmed
> right now look at El Paso. This is not going
away after
> the election.
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Steve Jones
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Its almost like nobody listened to the
science, they
> clearly said that the natural progression of
any novel
> virus is 3 annual seasons, with this one in
particular
> being predominately in fall. this is season
2. We have
> treatments now that are effective, we quit
killing
> people with ventilators the way were were in the
> beginning, healthcare isnt overwhelmed and
theres no
> shortage of PPE. We only have 8 days until
reporting
> on this changes to be less terrifying.
>
> Healthy people are being exposed, beating
it, and
> innoculated, 3 months permanent, no one
knows if this
> is different thatn 99 percent of other
viruses. but of
> the well over 30 million people who were
verified
> positive via testing and have since
recovered, less
> than 20 globally have been reinfected, so
odds are the
> vast majority are immune.
>
> Knowing what we know now, we have
permanently moved
> all positions that can be remote to remote.
techs
> dont go any further than the garage if they
dont have
> to. Its techs choice to mask up and glove
up, and as
> long as they choose to mask up and glove up,
it will
> continue to be there choice. This is only
applicable
> to interiors, theyre not required to mask
outside,
> thats simply ignorant to require and its not
> "following the science" . ut the tech can
choose to do
> that if they want. hell, if they want to
wear a condom
> all day, its none of our concern.
>
> Our state positivity numbers are a joke,
they simply
> base it on the percentage of total tests
that are
> positive, its gotten colder, so people arent
getting
> tested on a whim and we are back to
primarily people
> with risk factors getting tested, the
positivity rate
> went up as would be expected, but not as high as
> anticipated.
>
> If legitimate numbers start going up like
> hospitalizations (luckily I have ins in
healthcare so
> i dont have to rely on media reports and
politically
> charged public health departments, i am privy to
> internal census reports in healthcare) then
we will
> look toward lower contact solutions, and no
contact if
> our coverage area sees a legitimate surge.
>
> We dont do stupid stuff, like my contractor
who was
> infected, we cancelled him for his
quarantine period.
> We dont have in person company meetings.
When we are
> together on project work we dont ride in the
same
> vehicle, we just dont take any unnecessary
risk, but
> we also dont let risk avoidance
unnecessarily impact
> operations.
>
> I quit worrying about exposures with the
wife working
> in a hospital, we are exposed constantly.
(the low
> incidence of healthcare transmission is an
oddity that
> after the politics of this thing are over I
hope they
> do some deep diving into, its either going
to boil
> down to we still dont actually know how its
> primarily transmitting or healthcare has
such a high
> incidence of low viral load exposures that
> theyr innoculated without actually catching it,
> similar to how some allergies can be beaten
through
> very low dose exposures to the allergen, will be
> interesting research when the politics of it
are over)
>
> Every single "look at this country, look at that
> country" has turned out to be wrong on both
sides of
> the argument, even WHO says lockdowns are
the wrong
> solution now.
>
> Im still waiting for the fed money that went
out to
> put a bunch of people in prison, even in
this industry
> there will probably be some prison sentences
handed
> out, the money came with requirements, it
wasnt just
> free cash to grow a company.
>
> I can tell you there is something going around
> thats causing chest xrays to look exactly
like covid
> damage, but no testing method is identifying the
> presence of covid or history of its
presence, thats
> concerning, keep that in mind when relaxing
policies.
> Its flu season, and given the disruption of
> interaction, this years flu vaccine is not
going to
> very effective, its worth keeping covid
policies in
> place regardless to not have staff out with
a wild flu.
>
> And remember, the media frenzy is only just
beginning
> its 8 days of hell,
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 3:40 PM Jaime Solorza
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> We are so bad we were featured on ABC
News....
> people just want to fucking party...
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:25 PM Ken Hohhof
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> Numbers here in Illinois are bad
again today,
> all we can say is “at least we’re
not Wisconsin”.
>
> I no longer roll my eyes at my daughter
> choosing to live in Maine, where “social
> distancing” was already the norm.
(bike photo
> was actually from a ride a month ago
up to the
> Quebec border)
>
> *From:* AF <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]>>
*On Behalf
> Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 24, 2020
12:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid
at 8
> months and counting
>
> On Thursday our techs had to stop
wiring up
> panel and stuff because two
electricians would
> wear masks...I wasn't there , I
would have
> made them step outside ...our boss
complained
> to water utilities because we are on a
> schedule with several people.
>
> The control room is small.
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:19 AM Matt
Hoppes
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> We are doing normal installs for
now.
> Watching our local county info
in internal
> tracking systems I developed.
>
> So far we’re staying fairly
isolated. If
> things severely spike this
winter we will
> shut down installs again.
>
> At this point we are not masking nor
> requiring customers to wear
masks - but we
> do ask customers to stay 10feet
away from
> techs. This point will be driven
home even
> more as we go into the winter
months.
>
> On Oct 24, 2020, at 12:02
PM, Ken
> Hohhof <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>
>
> So 8 months in, numbers are
getting
> worse not better, and
despite what
> anybody says the end is not just
> around the corner.
>
> I remember at the beginning
some WISPs
> were not sending techs
inside customer
> homes, maybe pushing a cable
through
> the wall and having the
customer plug
> in the POE and router. Is
anybody
> still declining to do inside
work?
> Installs, repairs?
>
> Also, what about the FCC
requested
> “pledge” not to disconnect
customers
> for nonpayment during the
pandemic.
> How many are still doing
that, and
> assuming things won’t be back to
> “normal” until well into
2021 or even
> 2022, how long do you plan to
> continue? Are you taking any
> additional steps, like
downgrading
> their speed or declining to do
> upgrades, or requiring proof of
> hardship? I know this wasn’t
> mandatory, but if we did it
> voluntarily, should there be
a time
> limit? And if at that point
they are
> 6-12 months behind, do we
write that
> off rather than expecting
they will
> catch up?
>
> It’s also interesting I see
on cable
> company forums issues about mask
> refusal, both by techs and
customers,
> and even of customers who
have Covid
> but still want their
Internet fixed.
> I hesitate to bring this up
because it
> has become a political or
“freedom”
> issue in a way that seatbelts or
> smoking or wearing a yellow
vest at a
> grain elevator or even
picking up
> after your dog isn’t, and
I’m tired of
> being caught in the middle.
But take
> the extreme case of a
customer who
> recently tested positive or
the tech
> gets there and strongly suspects
> someone in the house is
contagious, is
> this really happening, and
what is
> your response? At the
beginning I
> would ask when setting up every
> appointment, has anyone in
the house
> tested positive, but I’ve
come to
> believe that’s pointless.
>
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>
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
>
>
--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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--
- Forrest
-->
