I think those videos are interesting but they may not be that relevant
to virus transmission. Those videos deal droplet-sized (and bigger)
emissions. Aerosols can’t be seen on high-speed camera because they
are too small. I heard a funny analogy that stopping virus spread
with a mask is like stopping a fart with a diaper. Also not fully
accurate but funny.
Is there benefit from stopping large droplets? That is the question.
So what happens to even the large droplets that get trapped in a cloth
mask? The droplets themselves will start to evaporate and eventually
you are left with aerosol sized or just the virus particles
themselves. They don’t just disappear right? Now when you
inhale/exhale the virus is small enough to escape from the mask. And
when you touch the mask, you move virus to whatever you touch after
that. And you bring it back to your car or house or whatever because
most people are not disposing of masks or properly disinfecting them.
So the mask is more of an intermediary and not a virus destroyer.
Again, the consensus before March was that it doesn’t limit the cloud
– it just moves the cloud around. I’m not aware of any evidence that
has shown a cloth mask has any benefit for slowing virus spread in
communities. Maybe one day we will have some kind of force field
bubble that can actually do that. The plastic barriers are another
example – coronaviruses survive quite well on these surfaces so it
might be having an overall opposite effect of the intended purpose of
slowing spread.
So, anyways, I will continue to wear a mask when requested by business
owners and other private property owners. I just don’t think it is
doing much besides making folks feel like they are doing something
even if they aren’t. Absent the force field bubble, the only way to
stop transmission is to isolate humans, but that’s a whole other can
of worms…
*From: *Forrest Christian (List Account) <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:01 PM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
Wearing a face mask provides very little protection for the wearer
from the virus. This fact is what the anti-maskers tend to spout
over and over and over again. And it's true. If you're wearing a
mask to prevent yourself from catching the virus, well, you're
effectively in the category of "something is better than nothing, but
not much".
However, what has changed is that we are dealing with a virus that
seems to be quite contagious before symptoms appear. As a result, if
we can limit the amount of virus floating around in the 'cloud' around
people who are contagious but don't know it that will help. For
this, masks are *very* effective, even cloth ones although of course
some are better than others. There are quite a few videos out on the
net from various organizations that have simulated this in various ways.
For example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDNeYfUTA11s&data=04%7C01%7C%7C2a1a85009f0f4cb08a1d08d87aedc4a7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637394508916697589%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=i7lcDqZwy%2BOODEdv1OcSHofZRF76AOXkWd4fQMq%2Fr0Y%3D&reserved=0>
A mask doesn't prevent the virus from getting out, what it does is
limit the size of the cloud around people, with much of the moisture
particles (which contain the virus) being caught by the mask. So,
as is said over and over, wearing a mask is to protect everyone around
you, not you.
On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 1:22 PM Harold Bledsoe <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I also follow a simple rule that if a business/home owner requires
a mask, it is their property and their right to require it. So,
wear it.
That said, I do think it is unfortunate that anyone that questions
the efficacy of mask use in the general population is assumed to
be one of the “it’s a hoax” people right off the bat. Masks have
been around for a hundred years and up until March or so of this
year, it was generally accepted that mask wearing by the general
population isn’t helpful. So the logical question is, what changed?
If the reason to wear a mask is to hide my ugly face, then, ok,
there’s a good argument there. If it is for some kind of
universal symbol to remind us to keep our distance from each
other, then, again, ok that might work. If we are all getting
N-95 masks and will be properly disposing of them after each
encounter/location and doing proper disinfection afterwards – that
too could work.
But if the argument is that we should wear neck gators and cloth
masks to protect our neighbors, well, I think there is very little
evidence to support this (and again was generally accepted until
March 2020). I’ve personally seen my father get closer and closer
to others while wearing a mask because he can’t understand wtf the
other person is saying. So, in these cases, it is discouraging
the proven method to slow spread (distance).
In my mind, these are 2 different things though:
1. following the rules set on private property by the owners of
that property
2. questioning if this is a valid mitigation strategy or just
virtue signaling and/or is there a better way
Perhaps this could be more useful:
*From: *Jay Weekley <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2020 10:51 AM
*To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
We've lost a certain degree of social decency. We have a
mandatory mask
order but it's not enforced; however, the "it's a hoax" or "you can't
tell me what to do" folks that won't wear one don't seem to get
that if
the person you're interacting with is wearing a mask then there is a
pretty good chance they would like you to wear one too. If the
cashier
is wearing a mask then put one on yourself regardless of what your
opinion of the virus is.
Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Unfortunately attitudes sometimes take a generation to change.
When I
> was young, people smoked everywhere, then they started having
> designated smoking areas, now smokers are pariahs. Used to be, if
> your dog pooped on someone else’s lawn, you left it for them to
pick
> up. People used to chew tobacco and spit on the sidewalk. Buffets
> didn’t used to have sneezeguards. It took Seinfeld to make “double
> dipping” a taboo. Other things like seatbelts and child seats have
> gone from controversial to the societal norm. Probably motorcycle
> helmets are the exception, mostly because the only harm to
others is
> they have to see your brains all over the road if you get in an
accident.
>
> It’s interesting how worked up some people get at women
breastfeeding
> in public, but asking that you wear a piece of cloth over your nose
> and mouth when indoors and within close proximity to others while
> there is a highly infectious respiratory disease circulating, well,
> that’s an intolerable infringement on your freedom.
>
> Even the stores with the “no shoes, no shirt, no service” policy,
> where was the outrage over that? What about restaurants that
require
> men to wear a coat and tie? I’m not a big fan, but hey, your
house,
> your rules.
>
> We seem to have lost the ability to respect others. Like covering
> your head or taking off your shoes when going into some houses of
> worship, that’s not a violation of your freedom, it’s respecting
others.
>
> With the Covid pandemic, though, I don’t think we have time to
wait a
> generation. Think of all the people who died waiting decades for
> cigarettes to become uncool. I will say, when I see the young
kids in
> stores and other public places with masks, they seem to think
it’s no
> different than wearing underwear or shoes. The next generation
will
> probably wonder what all the fuss was about. I just hope the 50% of
> people who are saying they won’t get the vaccine when it comes out
> change their mind, I’ve heard numbers like 80% will probably
need to
> get it, or we’ll be wearing masks forever. Even so, nobody
knows if
> the shots will last 3 months or a year or longer. I’ve mostly
never
> gotten flu shots, but we’ll probably need to get Covid shots every
> year forever. I don’t see it getting eradicated like smallpox.
>
> *From:* AF <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 4:45 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8 months and counting
>
> Stay safe guys. We have my cousins husband die from it two weeks
> ago...33 years old .
>
> My wife wears N95 masks, gloves, face shields , goggles, full
ppe garb
> at work everyday....she changes out in our back porch, including
> shoes...we spray them with Lysol...showers as soon as she comes
inside
> home..
>
> She has diabetes...
>
> I am about to hit 65 in November...taking no chances
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 3:37 PM Bill Prince <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> We spent the last week at Lake Tahoe. Almost everywhere we went
> mask wearing was near 100%, until Friday, we went to a
restaurant
> for lunch. They had set up booths outdoors with plexiglass
> dividers and plenty of distance. all the employees wore masks;
> they even provided a virtual menu via a QR Code that was on
a card
> on the table (so far so good).
>
> When it came time to leave, my partner had to visit the
restroom.
> She had to walk past the bar, where she said they were crowded,
> shoulder to shoulder, and zero masks. As Tony Fauci commented
> "Nothing good is going to come from that."
>
> I'm a 70-year-old guy, and while I think I'm in pretty good
shape,
> I do not have ready access to any monoclonal antibodies, nor
do I
> expect to in the next 6 months.
>
> bp
>
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 10/26/2020 2:20 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> We are on a curfew watch and stay at home order.... fucking
> selfish people out at bars and restaurants, home parties...
>
> My son was in New Zealand for three months... they had their
> shit together.
>
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 1:21 PM Matt Hoppes
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> Hold on. Reading your email I am getting conflicting
> information. You said that this seems like it’s a
joke but
> then also that you’ve moved everyone who can remote.
>
> I disagree we have hospitals that are being overwhelmed
> right now look at El Paso. This is not going away after
> the election.
>
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Steve Jones
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Its almost like nobody listened to the science, they
> clearly said that the natural progression of any
novel
> virus is 3 annual seasons, with this one in
particular
> being predominately in fall. this is season 2.
We have
> treatments now that are effective, we quit killing
> people with ventilators the way were were in the
> beginning, healthcare isnt overwhelmed and theres no
> shortage of PPE. We only have 8 days until reporting
> on this changes to be less terrifying.
>
> Healthy people are being exposed, beating it, and
> innoculated, 3 months permanent, no one knows if
this
> is different thatn 99 percent of other viruses.
but of
> the well over 30 million people who were verified
> positive via testing and have since recovered, less
> than 20 globally have been reinfected, so odds
are the
> vast majority are immune.
>
> Knowing what we know now, we have permanently moved
> all positions that can be remote to remote. techs
> dont go any further than the garage if they dont
have
> to. Its techs choice to mask up and glove up, and as
> long as they choose to mask up and glove up, it will
> continue to be there choice. This is only applicable
> to interiors, theyre not required to mask outside,
> thats simply ignorant to require and its not
> "following the science" . ut the tech can choose
to do
> that if they want. hell, if they want to wear a
condom
> all day, its none of our concern.
>
> Our state positivity numbers are a joke, they simply
> base it on the percentage of total tests that are
> positive, its gotten colder, so people arent getting
> tested on a whim and we are back to primarily people
> with risk factors getting tested, the positivity
rate
> went up as would be expected, but not as high as
> anticipated.
>
> If legitimate numbers start going up like
> hospitalizations (luckily I have ins in
healthcare so
> i dont have to rely on media reports and politically
> charged public health departments, i am privy to
> internal census reports in healthcare) then we will
> look toward lower contact solutions, and no
contact if
> our coverage area sees a legitimate surge.
>
> We dont do stupid stuff, like my contractor who was
> infected, we cancelled him for his quarantine
period.
> We dont have in person company meetings. When we are
> together on project work we dont ride in the same
> vehicle, we just dont take any unnecessary risk, but
> we also dont let risk avoidance unnecessarily impact
> operations.
>
> I quit worrying about exposures with the wife
working
> in a hospital, we are exposed constantly. (the low
> incidence of healthcare transmission is an
oddity that
> after the politics of this thing are over I hope
they
> do some deep diving into, its either going to boil
> down to we still dont actually know how its
> primarily transmitting or healthcare has such a high
> incidence of low viral load exposures that
> theyr innoculated without actually catching it,
> similar to how some allergies can be beaten through
> very low dose exposures to the allergen, will be
> interesting research when the politics of it are
over)
>
> Every single "look at this country, look at that
> country" has turned out to be wrong on both sides of
> the argument, even WHO says lockdowns are the wrong
> solution now.
>
> Im still waiting for the fed money that went out to
> put a bunch of people in prison, even in this
industry
> there will probably be some prison sentences handed
> out, the money came with requirements, it wasnt just
> free cash to grow a company.
>
> I can tell you there is something going around
> thats causing chest xrays to look exactly like covid
> damage, but no testing method is identifying the
> presence of covid or history of its presence, thats
> concerning, keep that in mind when relaxing
policies.
> Its flu season, and given the disruption of
> interaction, this years flu vaccine is not going to
> very effective, its worth keeping covid policies in
> place regardless to not have staff out with a
wild flu.
>
> And remember, the media frenzy is only just
beginning
> its 8 days of hell,
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 3:40 PM Jaime Solorza
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> We are so bad we were featured on ABC News....
> people just want to fucking party...
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 1:25 PM Ken Hohhof
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> Numbers here in Illinois are bad again
today,
> all we can say is “at least we’re not
Wisconsin”.
>
> I no longer roll my eyes at my daughter
> choosing to live in Maine, where “social
> distancing” was already the norm. (bike
photo
> was actually from a ride a month ago up
to the
> Quebec border)
>
> *From:* AF <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> *On Behalf
> Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 24, 2020 12:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WISPs & Covid at 8
> months and counting
>
> On Thursday our techs had to stop wiring up
> panel and stuff because two electricians
would
> wear masks...I wasn't there , I would have
> made them step outside ...our boss
complained
> to water utilities because we are on a
> schedule with several people.
>
> The control room is small.
>
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 10:19 AM Matt Hoppes
> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
>
<mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
> We are doing normal installs for now.
> Watching our local county info in
internal
> tracking systems I developed.
>
> So far we’re staying fairly isolated. If
> things severely spike this winter we
will
> shut down installs again.
>
> At this point we are not masking nor
> requiring customers to wear masks -
but we
> do ask customers to stay 10feet away
from
> techs. This point will be driven
home even
> more as we go into the winter months.
>
> On Oct 24, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Ken
> Hohhof <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
> <mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:
>
>
>
> So 8 months in, numbers are getting
> worse not better, and despite what
> anybody says the end is not just
> around the corner.
>
> I remember at the beginning some
WISPs
> were not sending techs inside
customer
> homes, maybe pushing a cable through
> the wall and having the customer
plug
> in the POE and router. Is anybody
> still declining to do inside work?
> Installs, repairs?
>
> Also, what about the FCC requested
> “pledge” not to disconnect customers
> for nonpayment during the pandemic.
> How many are still doing that, and
> assuming things won’t be back to
> “normal” until well into 2021 or
even
> 2022, how long do you plan to
> continue? Are you taking any
> additional steps, like downgrading
> their speed or declining to do
> upgrades, or requiring proof of
> hardship? I know this wasn’t
> mandatory, but if we did it
> voluntarily, should there be a time
> limit? And if at that point
they are
> 6-12 months behind, do we write that
> off rather than expecting they will
> catch up?
>
> It’s also interesting I see on cable
> company forums issues about mask
> refusal, both by techs and
customers,
> and even of customers who have Covid
> but still want their Internet
fixed.
> I hesitate to bring this up
because it
> has become a political or “freedom”
> issue in a way that seatbelts or
> smoking or wearing a yellow vest
at a
> grain elevator or even picking up
> after your dog isn’t, and I’m
tired of
> being caught in the middle. But
take
> the extreme case of a customer who
> recently tested positive or the tech
> gets there and strongly suspects
> someone in the house is
contagious, is
> this really happening, and what is
> your response? At the beginning I
> would ask when setting up every
> appointment, has anyone in the house
> tested positive, but I’ve come to
> believe that’s pointless.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]
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>
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> AF mailing list
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>
>
>
--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*
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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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--
- Forrest
