Personally, I think all these calls for changes to how the film
industry handles weapons safety, banning guns from sets, etc. are
more than likely completely unnecessary. It appears to me that they
already have pretty strict safety procedures, which seem to have
worked pretty well for the last century or so. If the reports that
the safety procedures were repeatedly violated on that set are true
(to the point people were walking off the set because they thought it
was unsafe), that's the problem. The people that ignored the rules
and procedures need to be held accountable, one way or another.
Throwing a few people in prison is going to be pretty effective at
making sure the rules are followed in the future. Monetary loss,
which probably won't even significantly hurt the lackeys that are
probably actually responsible (aside from Baldwin himself) isn't
going to have the same effect.
Accidents happen, and sometimes they're unavoidable, but this isn't
just a simple accident. This couldn't have happened if certain people
had actually done their job. I don't think it's terribly unreasonable
to hand a gun to some idiot actor and tell him to do whatever he
needs to do with it, even if he's clueless and might violate every
aspect of standard firearms safety - provided that gun passed through
the hands of several other people who know what they're doing and
verified there was no way it could hurt anybody.
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:51 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
So, what does jail time fix? A deterrent? Sending a message? A
spanking for bad humans?
This was an accident. My wife wrecked a car 20 years ago and one
of my sons died. Should she have been put in jail? Accidents
happen.
The family has civil remedies because money is the only thing the
legal system can do to attempt to make one whole.
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
firearm safety is a universal applied universally to firearms.
There is no different level of safety for different people. A
firearms inherent danger doesnt lessen depending on where its used
(maybe around flammable gasses). I hate cop out excuses for
mishandling firearms. Thats how we have gotten to a point where
people are afraid of an inanimate object.
Now, putting a firearm in a morons hand like alec baldwin adds to
the inherent danger, but thats beyond the basic principles of
firearm safety (the ones that dont change)
Multiple people need to see some jail time, starting with the
person operating the firearm, thats the person ultimately
responsible. The armorer, unless she can prove her sabatoge claim,
needs to be in a cell. the guy who picked it up and gave it to the
moron is just as culpable as twerp baldwin. Maybe they can be
cellmates and split their time with shower bubba.
This is a perfect example of why rule 1 exists, willfull ignorance
of that is called negligence.
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 11:12 AM Daniel White <dwh...@atheral.com>
wrote:
I'm nervous around anyone with a firearm because on principle
I trust no one. I trust no firearm is unloaded unless I
maintain possession and cleared it myself. Active Duty/former
military is mostly an exception since you act without respect
there you can expect to have your face in the dirt pretty quick.
I get though that you can't expect actors to know all the
firearms they handle. The system they use is supposed to have
multiple fail safes so that the actor doesn't need to be a
weapons expert. I think the system works considering how few
on set accidents have happened... and obviously procedure
wasn't followed here.
As I said, I think Alec is in some serious trouble as a
producer... but I doubt anything will happen criminally in
regards to him pulling the trigger.
photograph
Daniel White
Co-Founder
phone:+1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766
Bill Prince
December 2, 2021 at 09:55
You and me both. When I'm in the presence of people who (I
feel) are a bit too cavalier with a firearm, I get very
nervous, and my natural instinct is to get the hell away from
that person. I was taught to treat every firearm as if it is
loaded. My bolt action rifle, I keep the bolt stored separate
from the rifle. I don't put it in until I am ready to use it.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/2/2021 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Chuck McCown via AF
December 2, 2021 at 08:46
One junk news article has another person on the set saying
his finger was on the trigger guard.
Whether single or double action, a revolver takes some force
to fire.
I supposed if it was fully cocked and adjusted to have a hair
trigger it is possible to be extra easy to touch off.
I just cannot imagine someone handing me a firearm expecting
me to wave it around in the general direction of people and
me not checking it first. I would never trust someone’s word
on that.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, December 2, 2021 8:28 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read
(and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks,
not anything).
If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting
the shots they want.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Bill Prince
December 2, 2021 at 08:28
From where I'm sitting there had to be multiple screw ups.
First is the security of the weapons. Based on what I've read
(and I don't know how much of it is true), the weapons were
on a table; they had been used for "target practice" during
breaks; the armorer had declared them to be "cold" (in my
mind that means there is nothing in the chambers; not blanks,
not anything).
If it was a dress rehearsal, I would expect that there were
multiple cameras running. Digital film does not cost enough
to matter, and it can be used to determine if they're getting
the shots they want.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 12/2/2021 5:31 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Mike Hammett
December 2, 2021 at 06:31
Something a lot of people are leaving out is that movie set
gun safety is likely quite different than real life gun
safety. Likely, the same rules don't apply in both scenarios.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Wednesday, December 1, 2021 8:55:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Alec Baldwin
Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
over parking spots
-- AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Steve Jones
December 1, 2021 at 19:55
Amazing how less dead that lady would be if this guy wasnt
handling a magic gun pointing it at people on a scene that
had no call to point at people in an industry where you dont
point firearms at people with a firearm you dont point at
anything youre not prepared to destroy... but sure, he didnt
pull the trigger. Totally trust a mope who beats people up
over parking spots
-- AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
