Better antenna technology. 

Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nate Burke" <> 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:26:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality. I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router. But now he says his 
wifi works down the street and around the corner. I find that hard to believe, 
but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it must be much better... 
Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the size of a 
desktop computer. Then our internet would be better than comcast. 

On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 

Pretty much the same here. Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range. Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money. 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution. We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers but 
they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, or 
to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard). The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly 
shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a 
Calix class router. There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them. 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back. 

From: Af [ ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

What are you recommending on routers now Ken? 

Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < > wrote: 

I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 

From: Af [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < > wrote: 

And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV. Must be legal because I bought a box. And for tech 
support, call your ISP. 

From: Af [mailto: ] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 
People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering 

On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" < > wrote: 

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment... 

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update. It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface..... 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone 

----- Reply message ----- 
From: "Ken Hohhof" < > 
To: < > 
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering" 
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM 

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV? 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung. I know a lot of the early 
ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers. 

From: Af [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof < > wrote: 

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting. Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared. That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing. The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”. But 
I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet. Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow. I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you are not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right. Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle. 

From: Af [ ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering. 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM 


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix. And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly. Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently. 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now. 

From: Af [ ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM 
To: af < > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts. 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke < > wrote: 

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream? It's a beautiful 
People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously... 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof < > wrote: 

When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts. 

I’m starting to wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing. Is this a thing? And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 







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