That's fine with me. If we're doing a bunch of secret things that our
citizens aren't allowed to know about, then how can we actually function
as a democratic republic?
"Vote for me. I won't actually tell you what I'm really going to do,
but trust me it'll be for the best."
Operational security so that enemies don't know the exact position and
disposition of our forces is necessary. If we don't really know what
our leaders are doing and why they're doing it then that is not ok with
me. If we're afraid of Julian Assange revealing something embarrassing
then maybe we're doing too many embarrassing things.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 10/17/2016 9:24:07 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Interesting. How long will that last, 15 minutes?
I’m not sure why you like Assange so much, he is very anti-US and
several of his Wikileaks cofounders have parted company due to his
runaway ego.
Vox leans left so you probably dismiss anything they say, but they
specialize in in-depth coverage and display their facts and sources so
you can discount their bias and form your own conclusions. Here’s an
excerpt from a recent article on why Assange is targeting Clinton:
“WikiLeaks’ overriding ideology, at least publicly, is one of “radical
transparency”: a deep belief that modern politics is undemocratic, with
the important decisions made behind closed doors by elites and
bureaucrats, and that the public deserves to know what’s actually going
on.
But there’s always been another consistent element of the group’s
thinking: suspicion of the United States and its role in global
politics. This stems from the thinking of its founder and leader,
Assange — which helps explain why the group seems to despise Clinton.
The organization’s 2015 book The WikiLeaks Files: The World According
to US Empire contains the most in-depth catalog of Assange’s thoughts
on the United States. They’re not positive: Assange sees the United
States as a malign empire, one that has spent the decades since World
War II unjustly interfering in other countries and killing their
citizens. He sees the work of WikiLeaks, particularly publishing
classified US documents, as a way to expose the inner workings of
imperialism.
“Only by approaching this corpus holistically — over and above the
documentation of each individual abuse, each localized atrocity — does
the true human cost of empire heave into view,” Assange writes.
WikiLeaks’ operations, in keeping with this philosophy, have heavily
targeted the US. “It has been pretty hard to make the case that
WikiLeaks is a neutral transmission system,” journalist Joshua Keating
wrote in 2012. “Nearly all its major operations have targeted the US
government or American corporations.”
It makes sense that someone with Assange’s views would hate Clinton.
She’s widely seen, with some justification, as someone who’s pretty
comfortable with using American military power. She has been
consistently in the interventionist wing of the Democratic Party on
such issues as the Iraq War, the Libya intervention, and arming the
Syrian rebels.
When the UK’s ITV asked Assange whether he’d prefer Trump as president,
this was a core part of his answer. In fact, he implied that Clinton’s
record made her even more dangerous than Trump.
“Trump is a completely unpredictable phenomenon. You can’t predict what
he would do in office,” Assange said. “Hillary was overriding the
Pentagon’s reluctance to overthrow Muammar Qaddafi. ... She has a long
history of being a liberal war hawk, and we presume that she’s going to
proceed.”
Assange clearly sees Clinton as a representative of the worst parts of
the American empire. Moreover, he thinks that she, personally, would
use the power of the US government to go after his organization.
“Hillary Clinton is receiving constant updates about my personal
situation; she has pushed for the prosecution of WikiLeaks,” he told
ITV. “We do see her as more of a problem for freedom of the press
generally.”
In Assange’s telling, Clinton is an authoritarian imperialist who
directly threatens the well-being of his organization and maybe even
his person. No wonder Assange seems to think she’s worse than Trump
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/15/12929262/wikileaks-hillary-clinton-julian-assange-hate
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 8:03 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Wikieleaks is now saying that Assange has been cut off from Internet by
some State Power right when he was about to release the John Kerry
emails.
Rory
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 5:40 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Russia is doing some saber rattling for sure. It is concerning. Putin
seems to be trying to take advantage of the lame duck period somehow,
who knows what he is up to. N. Korea also, saying they are willing to
launch a nuclear first strike. You’d think there would be more
coverage of the Russian threats, but all people care about is the
election reality show.
Putin is pissed that Obama called him a regional power. Trump is
pissed that Obama made fun of him at the press dinner. Isn’t it nice
to have world leaders who use the powers of state to pursue their
personal grudges.
Meanwhile in Julian Assange news:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pamela-anderson-brings-wikileaks-julian-assange-a-vegan-lunch-and-conspiracy-theories-bloom/ar-AAj2FYZ?li=BBmkt5R
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 12:43 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
I will look up the speech
How do you feel about the implied "bracing for war" Russia seems to be
doing?
The right (I do live in Alabama) seems to believe they are bracing for
war if Trump does not get elected.
I have not heard what the left thinks since all they can talk about is
the Billy Bush trump tapes or women....
In fact I don't believe the media is covering anything....Not even us
firing on Yemen (I did not read that article on the internet I assume
we bombed A terrorist camp or something)
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 12:29 AM
Also, it seems this explains the nuclear deal Kerry negotiated with
Iran, basically trying to do what wasn’t done with Iraq. (Idiot Trump
doesn’t seem to realize Clinton isn’t still Sec. of State, but then he
lives in a fact free zone.) After years of sanctions, you have to get
some payoff as a result of those sanctions, apparently the deal was the
best our negotiating team could get. Not trying to argue yes or no on
that, just if you look back to the Iraq vote and Kerry’s speech, you
can understand why he took the approach he did with Iran.
He has certainly worked his butt off on the diplomacy side even at the
risk of failure. Very different approach from Clinton, I think, who
seemed to be more of a delegator. Unfortunately his efforts on the
Israel/Palestine issue were a total failure, and Putin and Lavrov
totally played him for a fool on Syria. Well, and Obama too, remember
he was going to do the big “reset” with Russia. And Hillary was the
Russia hawk in the Obama administration. Makes me totally shake my
head at Trump wanting to “get along” with Russia. Why is no one saying
that sounds like weak Obama who tried to be Putin’s buddy and was made
to look like a fool. And no wonder Putin wants Trump to win, since
Hillary is hawkish on Russia. What a bizzaro world we live in, where
the Republican candidate has a bromance with Putin, and it’s the
Democratic candidate who wants to be tough on Russia?
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 12:10 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Then listen to the whole speech.
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 12:08 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
I remember very clearly the media covering how Saddam would not allow
inspectors in and how he was very uncooperative.
In my opinion it is saddam's fault. Had he cooperated maybe we would
not have gone to war....
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2016 12:03 AM
I remember that very clearly. It was a war authorization vote. The
President told Congress he needed the authorization to strengthen his
hand when he went to the UN and allies and sought new sanctions to
force Iraq to submit to inspection and disarm, to show that the nation
was behind him, and that it was not a vote to go to war except as a
last resort. He basically framed it as a vote of confidence in him,
that he needed that vote to show the world he was serious and the
nation spoke with one voice, it made it very difficult for Congress not
to vote yes. Of course he didn’t follow through with his promises and
quickly went to war without exhausting all other avenues.
I clearly remember listening to Sen. John Kerry’s speech on the floor
of the senate before the vote, laying this all out. And I remember
having a sick feeling that exactly what he said the President promised
not to do and warned him not to do, was nonetheless going to happen.
Whatever you think of John Kerry, this is a riveting speech. I found a
video of it online. It’s 50 minutes long, if you can’t spend that much
time, skip to around 33:00.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4398929/sen-kerry-iraq-war-authorization-speech-9oct02
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 11:07 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
I remind you....congress had to vote on that.
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "Jaime Solorza" <losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT does it really matter?
Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2016 10:50 PM
Well Bush decision to invade Iraq did affect my family.. My son who
proudly served in Iraq came back injured physically and mentally. He
is still under medical care ... We should have gone after Taliban in
Afghanistan and wiped them out along with poppie fields. Hussein was
a dictator I know but our reason to invade was based on weapons of mass
destruction which didn't exist. We messed up the status quo, left and
gave ISIS an opening... If you study history of region it has shown no
outside nation has ever been able to conquer area for very long..
These folks have been at war since forever and we got caught up in it.
When you travel on plane you are affected... Large public events are
different now because threat of terrorism exists. So we are all
affected some way. The times, they are a changin
On Oct 16, 2016 9:21 PM, "Bruce Robertson" <br...@pooh.com> wrote:
Exactly right. Who is president has some effect, but not game
changing. Most people in the country are middle of the road, and the
progress of the country reflects that. The pendulum swings back and
forth, but always reverts to the mean.
On 10/16/16 8:17 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
Congress makes and changes law. Supreme Court makes a few important
decisions. Regulators are who really run the country.
Does it really matter who the president is?
What did Obama do? Encouraged the ACA. Dropped the ball in Syria.
But how did he affect me, my degree of wealth, my amount of spare
time?
Ditto Bush. They affect foreign policy. They have the ability to
really mess up other people’s lives in other countries, but do they
really have much effect on me?
Granted, altering the make up of the Supreme Court changes things
like can I choose to marry a dude or do I have to sell wedding cakes
to gays. But that really does not touch me. My granddaughter having
to cope with dudes in the bathroom at school hits a bit closer to
home, but I trust congress will eventually settle on something a bit
more common sense.
I guess I am trying to convince myself that a president really
doesn’t do much here at home. Congress does. The court does.
Bureaucracies do.
Now, if the president could get a whole truckload of cheese delivered
to the Whitehouse and give it out to anyone that drops in for a
visit, then we are talking about a real impact...
http://history1800s.about.com/od/19th-Century-Presidents/fl/Andrew-Jacksons-Big-Block-of-Cheese.htm
!DSPAM:2,580442b817511656011445!
