You could try, but what's the point? It doesn't really solve any problems. On Jun 24, 2017 8:55 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser" <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How about doing Protocal Specific UBB??? So 10GB allowance of VPN specific > traffic each month with unlimited everything else? I'm sure this can be > done with Powercode/Procera combination. > > On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Robert <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote: > >> i.e. AT&T blocking port 25? I can't think of a more asinine thing to >> do to customers that might have a clue... >> >> On 6/23/17 5:53 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: >> >>> Agreed. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:21 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net <mailto: >>> af...@ics-il.net>> wrote: >>> >>> I don't think blocking VPNs or SSL would be reasonable network >>> management. I don't think outright blocking any legal content would >>> be considered reasonable. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+In >>> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/ >>> company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com >>> /company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------ >>> *From: *"Sean Heskett" <af...@zirkel.us <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> >>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >>> *Sent: *Friday, June 23, 2017 7:20:13 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>> >>> I completely agree with you on all those points josh. It's a stupid >>> thing to do for many reasons, but being illegal is not one of those >>> reasons. >>> >>> I'm not picking a fight, just trying to clear the air about the >>> legalities in regards to DPI rules to block or throttle a traffic >>> type (such as VPN/SSL). a lot of folks don't understand that >>> "reasonable network management" is protected by the FCC NN rules. >>> >>> -sean >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com >>> <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Listen, at the end of the day you're consider penalizing the >>> very people who make it possible for you to operate, when in >>> reality you should be trying to find ways to get the government >>> to stop handing out cruise ships full of money to companies to >>> continue doing the same old shit. >>> >>> People do not want UBB. Cable COs have been doing it for years >>> to help stifle competition (online streaming) away from their >>> money maker (cable tv + ad revenue). >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds >>> <j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: >>> >>> edit: s/can/can't/ >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds >>> <j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Because you can discriminate based on traffic type >>> except in the case of reasonable network management. >>> Not to mention you will block every single telework user >>> in the process, along with many other types of content >>> riding on that tunnel. >>> >>> I'll say this, I would not be the one to want to try an >>> explain "I block VPNs" to the FCC. You can have fun >>> with that all you want. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Sean Heskett >>> <af...@zirkel.us <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote: >>> >>> All of that is very true Eric and I completely agree >>> with you. However, Josh said it was illegal and I >>> was pointing out that it is expressly legal to do >>> per the FCC NN rules. It's not smart or efficient >>> at fixing the problem but it is legal to do. >>> >>> -Sean >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke >>> <eric.kuh...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> you go right ahead and do DPI / deprioritize all >>> TLS type traffic, that is something I would >>> highly encourage any of my competitors to do... >>> Since a huge % of web traffic is https now, >>> netflix is https/tls1.2, youtube is >>> https/tls1.2, etc, all you would accomplish is >>> hurting everyone's throughput for all of the >>> most common websites and applications. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Sean Heskett >>> <af...@zirkel.us <mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> how is it illegal? FCC says we can manage >>> our networks as needed. >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Josh >>> Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com >>> <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote: >>> >>> And illegal. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> On Jun 22, 2017 11:22 AM, "Mike Hammett" >>> <af...@ics-il.net >>> <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote: >>> >>> We go from bad idea to worse? >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< >>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< >>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< >>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< >>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< >>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP >>> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/theb >>> rotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/chann >>> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> ------------------------------ >>> ------------------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" >>> <lists.wavel...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com>> >>> *To: *af@afmug.com <mailto: >>> af@afmug.com> >>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 22, 2017 >>> 10:15:11 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the >>> Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>> >>> Can you block/throttle a VPN >>> connection with DPI? Make it so that >>> if the customer turns it on the VPN >>> their connection gets worse than >>> with it off? >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, >>> Jeremy <jeremysmi...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On that point, we tell them that >>> it is not our responsibility to >>> track their specific usage. We >>> tell them that their are routers >>> like the Fortigate which can >>> track usage, but that we do not >>> support those devices. I tell >>> them that I think the new Torch >>> router does it too, but that we >>> have no experience with these >>> devices. "The only way that we >>> track which websites are visited >>> and what you are doing on the >>> Internet is with a warrant or an >>> order from the Department of >>> Justice". We stand behind our >>> usage tracking, and if they do >>> not want to pay the bill then >>> they can find another provider. >>> We have lost two or three >>> customers over four years who >>> refuse to pay, and it usually >>> isn't worth sending those ones >>> to collections. We just go and >>> collect our equipment and write >>> it off as bad debt. >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, >>> Adam Moffett >>> <dmmoff...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> That's an interesting point. >>> >>> >>> ------ Original Message >>> ------ >>> From: "Stefan Englhardt" >>> <s...@genias.net >>> <mailto:s...@genias.net>> >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> <mailto:af@afmug.com>; >>> "Wireless Administrator" >>> <wirel...@htn.net >>> <mailto:wirel...@htn.net>> >>> Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready >>> for the Xbox one X and 100GB >>> games? >>> >>> We fade out our usage >>> based plans. *Every* >>> single customer who had >>> to pay surplus makes us >>> a lot of work. Calls >>> from each single family >>> member, what IP is this. >>> Why cant you tell me >>> what x.y.z.w is. I dont >>> use Akamai ... >>> You have to take care >>> there is no angry >>> escalating dispute for a >>> view Euros. I am sure >>> this service times cost >>> us more money than the >>> customers had to pay >>> surplus. We have to do >>> flat pricing. >>> >>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 >>> 18:59:41 +0000 >>> "Wireless >>> Administrator" >>> <wirel...@htn.net >>> <mailto:wirel...@htn.net >>> >> >>> wrote: >>> >>> This industry is in >>> trouble. Nobody >>> wants usage based >>> billing. Customers >>> don’t want it for >>> obvious reasons. >>> ISP’s are afraid to >>> implement it for >>> fear of losing >>> customers. If you >>> lose money on an >>> account is it really >>> an asset to your >>> business? I feel >>> that the Large ISP’s >>> have already >>> implemented Usage >>> Based Rate >>> Adjustment. They >>> seem to have an >>> automated process to >>> adjust rates that >>> will force off the >>> heavy users. Our >>> industry will not >>> get respect until it >>> asks for it. UBB or >>> UBRA (New term I >>> coined) is the way …. >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Af >>> [mailto: >>> af-boun...@afmug.com >>> <mailto: >>> af-boun...@afmug.com>] >>> On Behalf Of Mark - >>> Myakka Technologies >>> Sent: Wednesday, >>> June 21, 2017 2:07 PM >>> To: Simon Westlake >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] >>> Ready for the Xbox >>> one X and 100GB >>> games? >>> >>> >>> >>> Simon, >>> >>> But metered billing >>> makes them think >>> about what they are >>> doing. Does the >>> baby need to be >>> falling asleep >>> watching a 4K >>> movie? The best way >>> I can put it is >>> renting an apartment >>> with utilities >>> included. If I'm >>> renting an apartment >>> in FL with electric >>> included, my AC is >>> going to be set at >>> 68 24/7. The cat >>> will be very >>> comfortable all day, >>> why should I care. >>> However, if I'm >>> paying for electric, >>> the cat will have to >>> deal with 78 during >>> the day and I may >>> have to deal with 72 >>> when I get home. >>> >>> Bandwidth prices are >>> dropping for some, >>> but for others it is >>> still expensive. >>> Not to mention the >>> HW costs to upgrade >>> your network to >>> handle the higher >>> bandwidth internally. >>> 4K tvs cost more to >>> buy than 1080 or >>> 720 TV's. Why >>> should someone who >>> is willing to stream >>> at 720 or pay for >>> satellite TV, be >>> forced to pay the >>> same as that guy >>> that wants to watch >>> in 4K. Why should a >>> single person who >>> just needs >>> dependable fast >>> internet >>> occasionally be >>> force to pay the >>> same amount as the >>> family with 6 kids >>> and 30 devices? Why >>> should the kid >>> willing to buy his >>> game on a disc be >>> forced to pay the >>> same as the guy who >>> doesn't want to get >>> up off the couch to >>> change a disc? >>> Why is it we are the >>> only industry that >>> is expected to >>> deliver a top notch >>> fast and reliable >>> service at a single >>> low price. The >>> electric company >>> gets to charge per >>> KW, the all you can >>> eat buffet charges >>> per person, the cell >>> phone company >>> charges per device, >>> cable/satellite >>> charges per box, >>> hell even the >>> streaming companies >>> get to put limits on >>> the number of people >>> that can stream per >>> account. Why is it >>> when we ask a heavy >>> user to pay their >>> fair share all hell >>> breaks lose and we >>> are the greedy >>> bastards? >>> >>> >>> -- Best regards, >>> Mark >>> >>> <mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>> <mailto: >>> m...@mailmt.com>> >>> mailto: >>> m...@mailmt.com >>> <mailto: >>> m...@mailmt.com> >>> >>> Myakka Technologies, >>> Inc. >>> < >>> http://www.MyakkaTech.com> >>> www.MyakkaTech.com >>> < >>> http://www.MyakkaTech.com> >>> >>> Proud Sponsor of the >>> Myakka City Relay >>> For Life >>> < >>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >>> < >>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL>> >>> >>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >>> < >>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL> >>> >>> Please Donate at >>> Please Donate at >>> < >>> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >>> < >>> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html>> >>> >>> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >>> < >>> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html> >>> ------ >>> >>> Wednesday, June 21, >>> 2017, 1:11:27 PM, >>> you wrote: >>> >>> >>> The problem with >>> metered billing is >>> that it doesn't >>> solve the problem. >>> The customer still >>> purchased a game >>> they want to >>> download, or they >>> have a 4K TV they >>> want to watch movies >>> on. Most people are >>> just going to look >>> for other options if >>> they have to pay >>> every time they try >>> to use a device in >>> their household, and >>> even if people are >>> willing to pay, you >>> still have to be >>> able to deliver >>> enough service to >>> them to give them >>> the speeds they want. >>> >>> Until there is more >>> spectrum available, >>> I think DPI is a >>> much better >>> solution.. you can >>> deprioritize and >>> shape things like >>> game downloads, and >>> prioritize/shape >>> their video >>> streaming. I wish >>> there was a better >>> option, but I really >>> don't think >>> implementing UBB is >>> a solution to this >>> problem. It may give >>> you more money to >>> build up your >>> network a bit, but >>> it is poison to most >>> customer's ears, and >>> it won't change >>> their behavior that >>> much unless it's >>> extremely painful >>> for them financially. >>> >>> On 6/21/2017 10:51 >>> AM, Steve Jones >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> metered billing.. >>> wave of the future >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 >>> at 9:46 AM, Adam >>> Moffett < >>> <mailto: >>> dmmoff...@gmail.com >>> <mailto: >>> dmmoff...@gmail.com>> >>> dmmoff...@gmail.com >>> <mailto: >>> dmmoff...@gmail.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I read some scary >>> stuff the other day >>> along a similar vein. >>> >>> Basically if you're >>> selling 25mbps then >>> you'll need a 4:1 >>> oversubscription >>> ratio to support >>> peak hours hi def >>> streaming without >>> complaint. >>> As adoption of 4K >>> video increases, >>> that ratio will >>> approach 1:1. >>> You'll have to >>> either start >>> supplying 100meg, or >>> start billing for >>> consumption....or >>> jack the price way >>> up. >>> >>> They were looking >>> only at streaming >>> video trends, and >>> didn't even consider >>> stuff like this. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ Original >>> Message ------ >>> From: "Jeremy" < >>> <mailto: >>> jeremysmi...@gmail.com >>> <mailto: >>> jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> >>> >>> jeremysmi...@gmail.com >>> <mailto: >>> jeremysmi...@gmail.com>> >>> To: >>> <mailto:af@afmug.com >>> <mailto:af@afmug.com >>> >> >>> af@afmug.com >>> <mailto:af@afmug.com >>> > >>> Sent: 6/21/2017 >>> 1:03:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] >>> Ready for the Xbox >>> one X and 100GB >>> games? >>> >>> >>> Yeah, this sucks for >>> us. Even worse, >>> many of these games >>> come out with dual >>> licenses so that you >>> can play on Windows >>> 10 or XB1 for the >>> same purchase. I >>> bought a couple >>> games and checked it >>> out. It was amazing >>> to be able to just >>> continue my Halo >>> Wars right where I >>> left off on my >>> laptop, but it was >>> double the download >>> size. This makes >>> Forza potentially >>> 200GB, without DLC. >>> When you are >>> providing customers >>> 300-500GB per month >>> without overages it >>> makes heavy Xbox >>> customers very >>> quickly switch >>> providers. I'm not >>> sure if that is a >>> blessing or a >>> curse. For now, it >>> has not been a >>> gigantic churn issue >>> for us, but the >>> future of 4K content >>> will likely hit us >>> all pretty hard. >>> My main issue with >>> this is that >>> purchasing a disc is >>> not an option. I >>> initially bought >> >> >
