How about doing Protocal Specific UBB??? So 10GB allowance of VPN specific traffic each month with unlimited everything else? I'm sure this can be done with Powercode/Procera combination.
On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 12:30 AM, Robert <[email protected]> wrote: > i.e. AT&T blocking port 25? I can't think of a more asinine thing to do > to customers that might have a clue... > > On 6/23/17 5:53 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote: > >> Agreed. >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:21 PM, Mike Hammett <[email protected] <mailto: >> [email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I don't think blocking VPNs or SSL would be reasonable network >> management. I don't think outright blocking any legal content would >> be considered reasonable. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+In >> telligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/ >> company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin. >> com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------ >> *From: *"Sean Heskett" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> *Sent: *Friday, June 23, 2017 7:20:13 PM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >> >> I completely agree with you on all those points josh. It's a stupid >> thing to do for many reasons, but being illegal is not one of those >> reasons. >> >> I'm not picking a fight, just trying to clear the air about the >> legalities in regards to DPI rules to block or throttle a traffic >> type (such as VPN/SSL). a lot of folks don't understand that >> "reasonable network management" is protected by the FCC NN rules. >> >> -sean >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Listen, at the end of the day you're consider penalizing the >> very people who make it possible for you to operate, when in >> reality you should be trying to find ways to get the government >> to stop handing out cruise ships full of money to companies to >> continue doing the same old shit. >> >> People do not want UBB. Cable COs have been doing it for years >> to help stifle competition (online streaming) away from their >> money maker (cable tv + ad revenue). >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> edit: s/can/can't/ >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Because you can discriminate based on traffic type >> except in the case of reasonable network management. >> Not to mention you will block every single telework user >> in the process, along with many other types of content >> riding on that tunnel. >> >> I'll say this, I would not be the one to want to try an >> explain "I block VPNs" to the FCC. You can have fun >> with that all you want. >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Sean Heskett >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> All of that is very true Eric and I completely agree >> with you. However, Josh said it was illegal and I >> was pointing out that it is expressly legal to do >> per the FCC NN rules. It's not smart or efficient >> at fixing the problem but it is legal to do. >> >> -Sean >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> you go right ahead and do DPI / deprioritize all >> TLS type traffic, that is something I would >> highly encourage any of my competitors to do... >> Since a huge % of web traffic is https now, >> netflix is https/tls1.2, youtube is >> https/tls1.2, etc, all you would accomplish is >> hurting everyone's throughput for all of the >> most common websites and applications. >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Sean Heskett >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> how is it illegal? FCC says we can manage >> our networks as needed. >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Josh >> Reynolds <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> And illegal. >> >> - Josh >> >> On Jun 22, 2017 11:22 AM, "Mike Hammett" >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> We go from bad idea to worse? >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>< >> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>< >> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>< >> https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange >> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>< >> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>< >> https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP >> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/theb >> rotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/chann >> el/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> ------------------------------------------ >> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> *To: *[email protected] <mailto: >> [email protected]> >> *Sent: *Thursday, June 22, 2017 >> 10:15:11 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the >> Xbox one X and 100GB games? >> >> Can you block/throttle a VPN >> connection with DPI? Make it so that >> if the customer turns it on the VPN >> their connection gets worse than >> with it off? >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, >> Jeremy <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> On that point, we tell them that >> it is not our responsibility to >> track their specific usage. We >> tell them that their are routers >> like the Fortigate which can >> track usage, but that we do not >> support those devices. I tell >> them that I think the new Torch >> router does it too, but that we >> have no experience with these >> devices. "The only way that we >> track which websites are visited >> and what you are doing on the >> Internet is with a warrant or an >> order from the Department of >> Justice". We stand behind our >> usage tracking, and if they do >> not want to pay the bill then >> they can find another provider. >> We have lost two or three >> customers over four years who >> refuse to pay, and it usually >> isn't worth sending those ones >> to collections. We just go and >> collect our equipment and write >> it off as bad debt. >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, >> Adam Moffett >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> That's an interesting point. >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "Stefan Englhardt" >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> To: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>; >> "Wireless Administrator" >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready >> for the Xbox one X and 100GB >> games? >> >> We fade out our usage >> based plans. *Every* >> single customer who had >> to pay surplus makes us >> a lot of work. Calls >> from each single family >> member, what IP is this. >> Why cant you tell me >> what x.y.z.w is. I dont >> use Akamai ... >> You have to take care >> there is no angry >> escalating dispute for a >> view Euros. I am sure >> this service times cost >> us more money than the >> customers had to pay >> surplus. We have to do >> flat pricing. >> >> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 >> 18:59:41 +0000 >> "Wireless >> Administrator" >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected] >> >> >> wrote: >> >> This industry is in >> trouble. Nobody >> wants usage based >> billing. Customers >> don’t want it for >> obvious reasons. >> ISP’s are afraid to >> implement it for >> fear of losing >> customers. If you >> lose money on an >> account is it really >> an asset to your >> business? I feel >> that the Large ISP’s >> have already >> implemented Usage >> Based Rate >> Adjustment. They >> seem to have an >> automated process to >> adjust rates that >> will force off the >> heavy users. Our >> industry will not >> get respect until it >> asks for it. UBB or >> UBRA (New term I >> coined) is the way …. >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> From: Af >> [mailto: >> [email protected] >> <mailto: >> [email protected]>] >> On Behalf Of Mark - >> Myakka Technologies >> Sent: Wednesday, >> June 21, 2017 2:07 PM >> To: Simon Westlake >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] >> Ready for the Xbox >> one X and 100GB games? >> >> >> >> Simon, >> >> But metered billing >> makes them think >> about what they are >> doing. Does the >> baby need to be >> falling asleep >> watching a 4K >> movie? The best way >> I can put it is >> renting an apartment >> with utilities >> included. If I'm >> renting an apartment >> in FL with electric >> included, my AC is >> going to be set at >> 68 24/7. The cat >> will be very >> comfortable all day, >> why should I care. >> However, if I'm >> paying for electric, >> the cat will have to >> deal with 78 during >> the day and I may >> have to deal with 72 >> when I get home. >> >> Bandwidth prices are >> dropping for some, >> but for others it is >> still expensive. >> Not to mention the >> HW costs to upgrade >> your network to >> handle the higher >> bandwidth internally. >> 4K tvs cost more to >> buy than 1080 or >> 720 TV's. Why >> should someone who >> is willing to stream >> at 720 or pay for >> satellite TV, be >> forced to pay the >> same as that guy >> that wants to watch >> in 4K. Why should a >> single person who >> just needs >> dependable fast >> internet >> occasionally be >> force to pay the >> same amount as the >> family with 6 kids >> and 30 devices? Why >> should the kid >> willing to buy his >> game on a disc be >> forced to pay the >> same as the guy who >> doesn't want to get >> up off the couch to >> change a disc? >> Why is it we are the >> only industry that >> is expected to >> deliver a top notch >> fast and reliable >> service at a single >> low price. The >> electric company >> gets to charge per >> KW, the all you can >> eat buffet charges >> per person, the cell >> phone company >> charges per device, >> cable/satellite >> charges per box, >> hell even the >> streaming companies >> get to put limits on >> the number of people >> that can stream per >> account. Why is it >> when we ask a heavy >> user to pay their >> fair share all hell >> breaks lose and we >> are the greedy >> bastards? >> >> >> -- Best regards, >> Mark >> >> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto: >> [email protected]>> >> mailto: >> [email protected] >> <mailto: >> [email protected]> >> >> Myakka Technologies, >> Inc. >> < >> http://www.MyakkaTech.com> >> www.MyakkaTech.com >> < >> http://www.MyakkaTech.com> >> >> Proud Sponsor of the >> Myakka City Relay >> For Life >> < >> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >> < >> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL>> >> >> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >> < >> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL> >> >> Please Donate at >> Please Donate at >> < >> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >> < >> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html>> >> >> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >> < >> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html> >> ------ >> >> Wednesday, June 21, >> 2017, 1:11:27 PM, >> you wrote: >> >> >> The problem with >> metered billing is >> that it doesn't >> solve the problem. >> The customer still >> purchased a game >> they want to >> download, or they >> have a 4K TV they >> want to watch movies >> on. Most people are >> just going to look >> for other options if >> they have to pay >> every time they try >> to use a device in >> their household, and >> even if people are >> willing to pay, you >> still have to be >> able to deliver >> enough service to >> them to give them >> the speeds they want. >> >> Until there is more >> spectrum available, >> I think DPI is a >> much better >> solution.. you can >> deprioritize and >> shape things like >> game downloads, and >> prioritize/shape >> their video >> streaming. I wish >> there was a better >> option, but I really >> don't think >> implementing UBB is >> a solution to this >> problem. It may give >> you more money to >> build up your >> network a bit, but >> it is poison to most >> customer's ears, and >> it won't change >> their behavior that >> much unless it's >> extremely painful >> for them financially. >> >> On 6/21/2017 10:51 >> AM, Steve Jones wrote: >> >> >> metered billing.. >> wave of the future >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 >> at 9:46 AM, Adam >> Moffett < >> <mailto: >> [email protected] >> <mailto: >> [email protected]>> >> [email protected] >> <mailto: >> [email protected]>> >> wrote: >> >> >> I read some scary >> stuff the other day >> along a similar vein. >> >> Basically if you're >> selling 25mbps then >> you'll need a 4:1 >> oversubscription >> ratio to support >> peak hours hi def >> streaming without >> complaint. >> As adoption of 4K >> video increases, >> that ratio will >> approach 1:1. >> You'll have to >> either start >> supplying 100meg, or >> start billing for >> consumption....or >> jack the price way up. >> >> They were looking >> only at streaming >> video trends, and >> didn't even consider >> stuff like this. >> >> >> >> ------ Original >> Message ------ >> From: "Jeremy" < >> <mailto: >> [email protected] >> <mailto: >> [email protected]>> >> >> [email protected] >> <mailto: >> [email protected]>> >> To: >> <mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected] >> >> >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> Sent: 6/21/2017 >> 1:03:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] >> Ready for the Xbox >> one X and 100GB games? >> >> >> Yeah, this sucks for >> us. Even worse, >> many of these games >> come out with dual >> licenses so that you >> can play on Windows >> 10 or XB1 for the >> same purchase. I >> bought a couple >> games and checked it >> out. It was amazing >> to be able to just >> continue my Halo >> Wars right where I >> left off on my >> laptop, but it was >> double the download >> size. This makes >> Forza potentially >> 200GB, without DLC. >> When you are >> providing customers >> 300-500GB per month >> without overages it >> makes heavy Xbox >> customers very >> quickly switch >> providers. I'm not >> sure if that is a >> blessing or a >> curse. For now, it >> has not been a >> gigantic churn issue >> for us, but the >> future of 4K content >> will likely hit us >> all pretty hard. >> My main issue with >> this is that >> purchasing a disc is >> not an option. I >> initially bought > >
