Agreed. On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:21 PM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't think blocking VPNs or SSL would be reasonable network management. > I don't think outright blocking any legal content would be considered > reasonable. > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Sean Heskett" <[email protected]> > *To: *[email protected] > *Sent: *Friday, June 23, 2017 7:20:13 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? > > I completely agree with you on all those points josh. It's a stupid thing > to do for many reasons, but being illegal is not one of those reasons. > > I'm not picking a fight, just trying to clear the air about the legalities > in regards to DPI rules to block or throttle a traffic type (such as > VPN/SSL). a lot of folks don't understand that "reasonable network > management" is protected by the FCC NN rules. > > -sean > > > On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Listen, at the end of the day you're consider penalizing the very people >> who make it possible for you to operate, when in reality you should be >> trying to find ways to get the government to stop handing out cruise ships >> full of money to companies to continue doing the same old shit. >> >> People do not want UBB. Cable COs have been doing it for years to help >> stifle competition (online streaming) away from their money maker (cable tv >> + ad revenue). >> >> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> edit: s/can/can't/ >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Josh Reynolds <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Because you can discriminate based on traffic type except in the case >>>> of reasonable network management. Not to mention you will block every >>>> single telework user in the process, along with many other types of content >>>> riding on that tunnel. >>>> >>>> I'll say this, I would not be the one to want to try an explain "I >>>> block VPNs" to the FCC. You can have fun with that all you want. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Sean Heskett <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> All of that is very true Eric and I completely agree with you. >>>>> However, Josh said it was illegal and I was pointing out that it is >>>>> expressly legal to do per the FCC NN rules. It's not smart or efficient >>>>> at >>>>> fixing the problem but it is legal to do. >>>>> >>>>> -Sean >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Eric Kuhnke <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> you go right ahead and do DPI / deprioritize all TLS type traffic, >>>>>> that is something I would highly encourage any of my competitors to do... >>>>>> Since a huge % of web traffic is https now, netflix is https/tls1.2, >>>>>> youtube is https/tls1.2, etc, all you would accomplish is hurting >>>>>> everyone's throughput for all of the most common websites and >>>>>> applications. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Sean Heskett <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> how is it illegal? FCC says we can manage our networks as needed. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Josh Reynolds < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And illegal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Josh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 2017 11:22 AM, "Mike Hammett" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We go from bad idea to worse? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>>>>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> *To: *[email protected] >>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 22, 2017 10:15:11 AM >>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you block/throttle a VPN connection with DPI? Make it so that >>>>>>>>> if the customer turns it on the VPN their connection gets worse than >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> it off? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 11:43 PM, Jeremy <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On that point, we tell them that it is not our responsibility to >>>>>>>>>> track their specific usage. We tell them that their are routers >>>>>>>>>> like the >>>>>>>>>> Fortigate which can track usage, but that we do not support those >>>>>>>>>> devices. >>>>>>>>>> I tell them that I think the new Torch router does it too, but that >>>>>>>>>> we have >>>>>>>>>> no experience with these devices. "The only way that we track which >>>>>>>>>> websites are visited and what you are doing on the Internet is with a >>>>>>>>>> warrant or an order from the Department of Justice". We stand >>>>>>>>>> behind our >>>>>>>>>> usage tracking, and if they do not want to pay the bill then they >>>>>>>>>> can find >>>>>>>>>> another provider. We have lost two or three customers over four >>>>>>>>>> years who >>>>>>>>>> refuse to pay, and it usually isn't worth sending those ones to >>>>>>>>>> collections. We just go and collect our equipment and write it off >>>>>>>>>> as bad >>>>>>>>>> debt. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 7:52 PM, Adam Moffett < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That's an interesting point. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Stefan Englhardt" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]; "Wireless Administrator" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 3:18:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> We fade out our usage based plans. *Every* single customer who >>>>>>>>>>>> had to pay surplus makes us a lot of work. Calls from each single >>>>>>>>>>>> family >>>>>>>>>>>> member, what IP is this. Why cant you tell me what x.y.z.w is. I >>>>>>>>>>>> dont use >>>>>>>>>>>> Akamai ... >>>>>>>>>>>> You have to take care there is no angry escalating dispute for >>>>>>>>>>>> a view Euros. I am sure this service times cost us more money than >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> customers had to pay surplus. We have to do flat pricing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 18:59:41 +0000 >>>>>>>>>>>> "Wireless Administrator" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This industry is in trouble. Nobody wants usage based >>>>>>>>>>>>> billing. Customers don’t want it for obvious reasons. ISP’s are >>>>>>>>>>>>> afraid to >>>>>>>>>>>>> implement it for fear of losing customers. If you lose money on >>>>>>>>>>>>> an account >>>>>>>>>>>>> is it really an asset to your business? I feel that the Large >>>>>>>>>>>>> ISP’s have >>>>>>>>>>>>> already implemented Usage Based Rate Adjustment. They seem to >>>>>>>>>>>>> have an >>>>>>>>>>>>> automated process to adjust rates that will force off the heavy >>>>>>>>>>>>> users. Our >>>>>>>>>>>>> industry will not get respect until it asks for it. UBB or UBRA >>>>>>>>>>>>> (New term >>>>>>>>>>>>> I coined) is the way …. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark - >>>>>>>>>>>>> Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Simon Westlake >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Simon, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But metered billing makes them think about what they are >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing. Does the baby need to be falling asleep watching a 4K >>>>>>>>>>>>> movie? The >>>>>>>>>>>>> best way I can put it is renting an apartment with utilities >>>>>>>>>>>>> included. If >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm renting an apartment in FL with electric included, my AC is >>>>>>>>>>>>> going to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> set at 68 24/7. The cat will be very comfortable all day, why >>>>>>>>>>>>> should I >>>>>>>>>>>>> care. However, if I'm paying for electric, the cat will have to >>>>>>>>>>>>> deal with >>>>>>>>>>>>> 78 during the day and I may have to deal with 72 when I get home. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Bandwidth prices are dropping for some, but for others it is >>>>>>>>>>>>> still expensive. Not to mention the HW costs to upgrade your >>>>>>>>>>>>> network to >>>>>>>>>>>>> handle the higher bandwidth internally. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4K tvs cost more to buy than 1080 or 720 TV's. Why should >>>>>>>>>>>>> someone who is willing to stream at 720 or pay for satellite TV, >>>>>>>>>>>>> be forced >>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay the same as that guy that wants to watch in 4K. Why >>>>>>>>>>>>> should a single >>>>>>>>>>>>> person who just needs dependable fast internet occasionally be >>>>>>>>>>>>> force to pay >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same amount as the family with 6 kids and 30 devices? Why >>>>>>>>>>>>> should the >>>>>>>>>>>>> kid willing to buy his game on a disc be forced to pay the same >>>>>>>>>>>>> as the guy >>>>>>>>>>>>> who doesn't want to get up off the couch to change a disc? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why is it we are the only industry that is expected to deliver >>>>>>>>>>>>> a top notch fast and reliable service at a single low price. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> electric >>>>>>>>>>>>> company gets to charge per KW, the all you can eat buffet charges >>>>>>>>>>>>> per >>>>>>>>>>>>> person, the cell phone company charges per device, >>>>>>>>>>>>> cable/satellite charges >>>>>>>>>>>>> per box, hell even the streaming companies get to put limits on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the number >>>>>>>>>>>>> of people that can stream per account. Why is it when we ask a >>>>>>>>>>>>> heavy user >>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay their fair share all hell breaks lose and we are the >>>>>>>>>>>>> greedy bastards? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mark <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc. >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.MyakkaTech.com> www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Proud Sponsor of the Myakka City Relay For Life >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.RelayForLife.org/MyakkaCityFL >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please Donate at Please Donate at <http://www.myakkatech.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> RFL.html> http://www.myakkatech.com/RFL.html >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wednesday, June 21, 2017, 1:11:27 PM, you wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The problem with metered billing is that it doesn't solve the >>>>>>>>>>>>> problem. The customer still purchased a game they want to >>>>>>>>>>>>> download, or they >>>>>>>>>>>>> have a 4K TV they want to watch movies on. Most people are just >>>>>>>>>>>>> going to >>>>>>>>>>>>> look for other options if they have to pay every time they try to >>>>>>>>>>>>> use a >>>>>>>>>>>>> device in their household, and even if people are willing to pay, >>>>>>>>>>>>> you still >>>>>>>>>>>>> have to be able to deliver enough service to them to give them >>>>>>>>>>>>> the speeds >>>>>>>>>>>>> they want. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Until there is more spectrum available, I think DPI is a much >>>>>>>>>>>>> better solution.. you can deprioritize and shape things like game >>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads, and prioritize/shape their video streaming. I wish >>>>>>>>>>>>> there was a >>>>>>>>>>>>> better option, but I really don't think implementing UBB is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> solution to >>>>>>>>>>>>> this problem. It may give you more money to build up your network >>>>>>>>>>>>> a bit, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but it is poison to most customer's ears, and it won't change >>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior that much unless it's extremely painful for them >>>>>>>>>>>>> financially. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/21/2017 10:51 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> metered billing.. wave of the future >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Adam Moffett < <mailto: >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I read some scary stuff the other day along a similar vein. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically if you're selling 25mbps then you'll need a 4:1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> oversubscription ratio to support peak hours hi def streaming >>>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint. >>>>>>>>>>>>> As adoption of 4K video increases, that ratio will approach >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1:1. You'll have to either start supplying 100meg, or start >>>>>>>>>>>>> billing for >>>>>>>>>>>>> consumption....or jack the price way up. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> They were looking only at streaming video trends, and didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> even consider stuff like this. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jeremy" < <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: 6/21/2017 1:03:09 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ready for the Xbox one X and 100GB games? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, this sucks for us. Even worse, many of these games come >>>>>>>>>>>>> out with dual licenses so that you can play on Windows 10 or XB1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> same purchase. I bought a couple games and checked it out. It >>>>>>>>>>>>> was amazing >>>>>>>>>>>>> to be able to just continue my Halo Wars right where I left off >>>>>>>>>>>>> on my >>>>>>>>>>>>> laptop, but it was double the download size. This makes Forza >>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>> 200GB, without DLC. When you are providing customers 300-500GB >>>>>>>>>>>>> per month >>>>>>>>>>>>> without overages it makes heavy Xbox customers very quickly switch >>>>>>>>>>>>> providers. I'm not sure if that is a blessing or a curse. For >>>>>>>>>>>>> now, it has >>>>>>>>>>>>> not been a gigantic churn issue for us, but the future of 4K >>>>>>>>>>>>> content will >>>>>>>>>>>>> likely hit us all pretty hard. >>>>>>>>>>>>> My main issue with this is that purchasing a disc is not an >>>>>>>>>>>>> option. I initially bought discs, only to find that even after >>>>>>>>>>>>> ripping >>>>>>>>>>>>> them to the hard drive, I have to walk down to the network closet >>>>>>>>>>>>> to insert >>>>>>>>>>>>> the disc. Digitally purchased games can just be loaded from a >>>>>>>>>>>>> menu, like >>>>>>>>>>>>> all of the hacked consoles. There is no option to 'upgrade' to a >>>>>>>>>>>>> digital >>>>>>>>>>>>> license if you have purchased a disc. Also, if you own multiple >>>>>>>>>>>>> Xbox One >>>>>>>>>>>>> consoles (say at home and at work), you can play any of your >>>>>>>>>>>>> games on >>>>>>>>>>>>> either console, at any time, just not simultaneously. Discs are >>>>>>>>>>>>> now >>>>>>>>>>>>> useless to me. The only way to get this digital license is to >>>>>>>>>>>>> download it >>>>>>>>>>>>> from the Internet (or hack the console...not yet an option). >>>>>>>>>>>>> This has been >>>>>>>>>>>>> a big bummer to heavy Xbox users when they get hit with massive >>>>>>>>>>>>> overages, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and they usually switch to Comcast. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Eric Kuhnke < <mailto: >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This will be the new normal with the next generation Xbox, >>>>>>>>>>>>> when many customers start bringing them home... >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://m.hardocp.com/news/2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_ >>>>>>>>>>>>> will_be_100gb_download> https://m.hardocp.com/news/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2017/06/18/forza_motorsport_7_will_be_100gb_download >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Simon Westlake >>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA >>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sonar Software Inc >>>>>>>>>>>>> The future of ISP billing and OSS >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sonar.software> https://sonar.software >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > >
