Except in the case of the licenses, that is done by the federal government - a non business entity.
Not sure license fees with the FCC are up for negotiation, unless you have your own army of lobbyists. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 3:24 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps > you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your > customers. Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple > price. > > Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and > buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for > gas. Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making > tires, but can certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in > recent memory the dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining > the license plate too. > > *From:* Faisal Imtiaz > *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz > > >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. > > Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated > to the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they > have such an opinion..... and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in > that context ... > > As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering > the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing > to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, > unless they are backed up to the reason why. > > I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please > everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their > strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products > shine in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone > has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective.. > > In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a > little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, > this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help > you in gaining a better understanding of what is the difference one can > expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment > region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain > zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, > not an absolute ref ). > > I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being > high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination > etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this... > > :) > > Happy Weekend. > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > http://www.snappytelecom.net > > Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232 > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email: > supp...@snappytelecom.net > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz > > I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about > the 5ghz stuff > > On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas. >> >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> ------------------------------ >> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >> >> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain >> region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and >> tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im >> mercan) but some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 >> miles, I dont care about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you >> get into the higher frequencies yout rain zone, it really matters. >> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on >> th market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally >> nothing.... Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier >> classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. >> You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a >> Motorola product. Just before Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys. >> >> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a >> dick about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in >> central Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off >> 10db to get a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max >> EIRP could impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles >> away. Im not complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have >> done it too. >> >> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, >> put it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all >> day. You know what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice >> double frappe vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, >> and take it to your shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it >> while humming Mary had a little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your >> recourse. >> >> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put >> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not >> if the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my >> friends. The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully >> squat some spectrum on the cheap. >> >> FWIW >> >> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im >> only a decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and >> smacked me like a wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long >> before I made some bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a >> woman. Know where you are and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full >> bukakee on a housewife. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from >>> the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high >>> throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in >>> congested areas anyway. >>> >>> >>> >>> bp >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> >>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >>> >>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to >>> the B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can >>> do more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in >>> one direction with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but >>> you can only get around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real >>> full duplex radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you >>> need a 50/50 split). >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 >>>> GHz. Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest >>>> 6 GHz. >>>> >>>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more >>>> throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> bp >>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote: >>>> >>>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out >>>> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We >>>> have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last >>>> couple of years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we >>>> are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d >>>> like to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and >>>> 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, >>>> which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line >>>> of site we think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as >>>> the design tools tell us.�� For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the >>>> Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have all the management >>>> tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the Ubiquiti >>>> AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there, >>>> and just don�t have much familiarity with any other options outside of >>>> AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options: >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros: >>>> >>>> - Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the >>>> license and require less babysitting for interference >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big >>>> consideration for us as it looks like everything we will need is >>>> under the >>>> limits of the HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well >>>> >>>> >>>> - Little less susceptible to rain fade >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> Cons: >>>> >>>> 1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost >>>> associated with it >>>> 2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before >>>> applying for the license >>>> 3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD) >>>> 4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the >>>> HD) >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros: >>>> >>>> 1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all >>>> links >>>> 2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to >>>> deploy >>>> 3. Higher throughput on the HD >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> Cons: >>>> >>>> 1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet >>>> links now might have noise later >>>> 2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, >>>> although this isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with >>>> lots of >>>> Ubiquiti products >>>> >>>> >>>> - Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with: >>>> >>>> 1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels >>>> if you see other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are >>>> finding it tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see >>>> noise, will >>>> we be able to move to other channels. >>>> 2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP >>>> traffic across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� >>>> Seems >>>> like a well planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should >>>> be able >>>> to, but looking for some real world experience. >>>> >>>> >>>> - Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than >>>> the ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious >>>> questions? >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> David Coudron >>>> >>>> � >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > >
