I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling 
license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa, 
they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job 
done at a discounted rate. 

So, what I am missing... ? 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] 

> From: "Chuck McCown" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you
> should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your customers.
> Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price.
> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy
> tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. 
> Ford
> may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can
> certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the
> dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too.
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
> >>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to 
> the
> Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have such
> an opinion..... and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context ...
> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering the
> opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to
> support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, 
> unless
> they are backed up to the reason why.
> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
> everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine
> in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. 
> Needs
> to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..
> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a 
> little
> bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is
> physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in 
> gaining
> a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between
> 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with
> Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with
> Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ).
> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being 
> high
> ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I
> would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...
> :)
> Happy Weekend.
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected]

>> From: "Steve Jones" <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the
>> 5ghz stuff
>> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" < [email protected] > wrote:

>>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.

>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>>> The Brothers WISP

>>> From: "Steve Jones" < [email protected] >
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region.
>>> Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 
>>> GHZ
>>> is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy 
>>> in a
>>> desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him
>>> here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies
>>> yout rain zone, it really matters.
>>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th
>>> market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally 
>>> nothing....
>>> Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for 
>>> 200mb...
>>> just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, 
>>> UBNT
>>> 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before
>>> Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.
>>> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick 
>>> about
>>> it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central 
>>> Indiana,
>>> you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get a link
>>> because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could impact 
>>> that
>>> link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not 
>>> complaining, if
>>> I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too.
>>> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put 
>>> it
>>> on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You 
>>> know
>>> what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe
>>> vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to 
>>> your
>>> shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary 
>>> had a
>>> little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse.
>>> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put
>>> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not 
>>> if
>>> the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my 
>>> friends.
>>> The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some
>>> spectrum on the cheap.
>>> FWIW
>>> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im 
>>> only a
>>> decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and smacked me 
>>> like a
>>> wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long before I made some
>>> bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a woman. Know where you 
>>> are
>>> and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife.

>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince < [email protected] > wrote:

>>>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from 
>>>> the
>>>> AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high 
>>>> throughput. We
>>>> gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas 
>>>> anyway.

>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

>>>>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the 
>>>>> B11,
>>>>> but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do more
>>>>> throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one 
>>>>> direction
>>>>> with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can only 
>>>>> get
>>>>> around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex 
>>>>> radio
>>>>> though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split).
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince < [email protected] > 
>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 
>>>>>> GHz. Medium
>>>>>> (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz.

>>>>>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more 
>>>>>> throughput on
>>>>>> less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.

>>>>>> bp
>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:

>>>>>>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out 
>>>>>>> again to
>>>>>>> hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have 
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last 
>>>>>>> couple of
>>>>>>> years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are 
>>>>>>> starting to
>>>>>>> see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make 
>>>>>>> the jump
>>>>>>> to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for 
>>>>>>> that.�� The
>>>>>>> links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits 
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in 
>>>>>>> range
>>>>>>> for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell 
>>>>>>> us.�� For
>>>>>>> 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it 
>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>> well and have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 
>>>>>>> GHz we�d
>>>>>>> likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with
>>>>>>> Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity 
>>>>>>> with any
>>>>>>> other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and 
>>>>>>> Cons of
>>>>>>> the two options:

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

>>>>>>>    * Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the 
>>>>>>> license and
>>>>>>>     require less babysitting for interference

>>>>>>>         1.
>>>>>>> Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for 
>>>>>>> us as it
>>>>>>> looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for 
>>>>>>> sure and
>>>>>>> likely the AF 24 as well

>>>>>>>     *
>>>>>>> Little less susceptible to rain fade

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> Cons:

>>>>>>>     1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost 
>>>>>>> associated with it
>>>>>>>    2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before 
>>>>>>> applying for
>>>>>>>     the license
>>>>>>>     3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>>>>>>>     4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the 
>>>>>>> HD)

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

>>>>>>>     1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all 
>>>>>>> links
>>>>>>>     2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy
>>>>>>>     3. Higher throughput on the HD

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> Cons:

>>>>>>>        1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even 
>>>>>>> quiet links now
>>>>>>>         might have noise later
>>>>>>>        2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, 
>>>>>>> although this
>>>>>>>         isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of 
>>>>>>> Ubiquiti products

>>>>>>>     *
>>>>>>> Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

>>>>>>>        1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move 
>>>>>>> channels if you see
>>>>>>>        other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are 
>>>>>>> finding it tough to
>>>>>>>        figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be 
>>>>>>> able to move to
>>>>>>>         other channels.
>>>>>>>        2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP 
>>>>>>> traffic across any of
>>>>>>>        the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a well 
>>>>>>> planned link
>>>>>>>        with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but 
>>>>>>> looking for some real
>>>>>>>         world experience.

>>>>>>>     *
>>>>>>> Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the ones 
>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>> mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> Thanks,

>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>> David Coudron

>>>>>>> �

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