I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa, they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job done at a discounted rate.
So, what I am missing... ? Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom http://www.snappytelecom.net Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] > From: "Chuck McCown" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz > If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you > should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your customers. > Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price. > Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy > tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. > Ford > may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can > certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the > dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too. > From: Faisal Imtiaz > Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz > >>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. > Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to > the > Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have such > an opinion..... and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context ... > As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering the > opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to > support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, > unless > they are backed up to the reason why. > I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please > everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their > strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products shine > in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. > Needs > to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective.. > In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a > little > bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is > physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in > gaining > a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between > 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with > Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with > Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ). > I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being > high > ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I > would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this... > :) > Happy Weekend. > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > http://www.snappytelecom.net > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] >> From: "Steve Jones" <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the >> 5ghz stuff >> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" < [email protected] > wrote: >>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas. >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> The Brothers WISP >>> From: "Steve Jones" < [email protected] > >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz >>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region. >>> Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 24 >>> GHZ >>> is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy >>> in a >>> desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him >>> here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies >>> yout rain zone, it really matters. >>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th >>> market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally >>> nothing.... >>> Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for >>> 200mb... >>> just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, >>> UBNT >>> 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before >>> Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys. >>> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick >>> about >>> it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central >>> Indiana, >>> you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get a link >>> because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could impact >>> that >>> link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not >>> complaining, if >>> I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too. >>> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, put >>> it >>> on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You >>> know >>> what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe >>> vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to >>> your >>> shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary >>> had a >>> little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse. >>> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put >>> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not >>> if >>> the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my >>> friends. >>> The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some >>> spectrum on the cheap. >>> FWIW >>> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im >>> only a >>> decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and smacked me >>> like a >>> wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long before I made some >>> bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a woman. Know where you >>> are >>> and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife. >>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince < [email protected] > wrote: >>>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from >>>> the >>>> AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high >>>> throughput. We >>>> gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas >>>> anyway. >>>> bp >>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote: >>>>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to the >>>>> B11, >>>>> but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do more >>>>> throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one >>>>> direction >>>>> with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can only >>>>> get >>>>> around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex >>>>> radio >>>>> though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 split). >>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince < [email protected] > >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 >>>>>> GHz. Medium >>>>>> (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz. >>>>>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more >>>>>> throughput on >>>>>> less spectrum. Probably less expensive too. >>>>>> bp >>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>>>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote: >>>>>>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out >>>>>>> again to >>>>>>> hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last >>>>>>> couple of >>>>>>> years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are >>>>>>> starting to >>>>>>> see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make >>>>>>> the jump >>>>>>> to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for >>>>>>> that.�� The >>>>>>> links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are in >>>>>>> range >>>>>>> for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell >>>>>>> us.�� For >>>>>>> 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it >>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>> well and have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 >>>>>>> GHz we�d >>>>>>> likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with >>>>>>> Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity >>>>>>> with any >>>>>>> other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and >>>>>>> Cons of >>>>>>> the two options: >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros: >>>>>>> * Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the >>>>>>> license and >>>>>>> require less babysitting for interference >>>>>>> 1. >>>>>>> Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for >>>>>>> us as it >>>>>>> looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for >>>>>>> sure and >>>>>>> likely the AF 24 as well >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> Little less susceptible to rain fade >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> Cons: >>>>>>> 1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost >>>>>>> associated with it >>>>>>> 2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before >>>>>>> applying for >>>>>>> the license >>>>>>> 3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD) >>>>>>> 4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the >>>>>>> HD) >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros: >>>>>>> 1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all >>>>>>> links >>>>>>> 2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to deploy >>>>>>> 3. Higher throughput on the HD >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> Cons: >>>>>>> 1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even >>>>>>> quiet links now >>>>>>> might have noise later >>>>>>> 2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, >>>>>>> although this >>>>>>> isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of >>>>>>> Ubiquiti products >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with: >>>>>>> 1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move >>>>>>> channels if you see >>>>>>> other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are >>>>>>> finding it tough to >>>>>>> figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be >>>>>>> able to move to >>>>>>> other channels. >>>>>>> 2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP >>>>>>> traffic across any of >>>>>>> the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a well >>>>>>> planned link >>>>>>> with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but >>>>>>> looking for some real >>>>>>> world experience. >>>>>>> * >>>>>>> Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the ones >>>>>>> already >>>>>>> mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions? >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> � >>>>>>> David Coudron >>>>>>> �
