yes. I always thought registration was a sales side component
Our Mimosa was done through commsearch, as I understand it theyre partnered
with mimosa or some such thing
Since radios are a global sales thing I dont know if its worth the radio
manufacturer time to make arrangements with all the registering nations
agencies.
SAF just relatively recently pushed into North America, Maybe its on their
horizon, I dont know. But I always kind of prefer people stay in their
lane, if you make radios, make radios, if you sell goods and services, just
sell goods and services

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 8:28 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Does the company you purchase your SAF stuff from do it, though?
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, February 12, 2018 7:53:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> Saf does not
>
> On Feb 11, 2018 9:06 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Trango did.  They subbed out the coordination and licensing to Radyn, but
> I don't think they marked it up much.
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/11/2018 8:52:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it.  If I turned it
> down it was because I could save money by not taking the package.
>
> So, if this exists, it exists.  Does SAF do this?  Last radios I put up
> were SAF.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling
> license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of
> Mimosa, they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to
> get the job done at a discounted rate.
>
> So, what I am missing... ?
>
> Regards.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps
> you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your
> customers.  Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple
> price.
>
> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and
> buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for
> gas.  Ford may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making
> tires, but can certainly drive the car off the lot.  And in all cases in
> recent memory the dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining
> the license plate too.
>
> *From:* Faisal Imtiaz
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> >>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
>
> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated
> to the Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they
> have such an opinion..... and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in
> that context ...
>
> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering
> the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing
> to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions,
> unless they are backed up to the reason why.
>
> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
> everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products
> shine in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone
> has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..
>
> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a
> little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is,
> this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help
> you in  gaining  a better understanding of what is the difference one can
> expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment
> region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain
> zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide,
> not an absolute ref  ).
>
> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being
> high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination
> etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...
>
> :)
>
> Happy Weekend.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 <(305)%20663-5518> x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 <(305)%20663-5518> Option 2 or Email:
> supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>
> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about
> the 5ghz stuff
>
> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>>
>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain
>> region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and
>> tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im
>> mercan) but some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6
>> miles, I dont care about him here, he doesnt care about me there. If you
>> get into the higher frequencies yout rain zone, it really matters.
>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on
>> th market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally
>> nothing.... Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier
>> classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else.
>> You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a
>> Motorola product. Just before Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.
>>
>> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a
>> dick about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in
>> central Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off
>> 10db to get a link because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max
>> EIRP could impact that link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles
>> away. Im not complaining, if I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have
>> done it too.
>>
>> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link,
>> put it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all
>> day. You know what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice
>> double frappe vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth,
>> and take it to your shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it
>> while humming Mary had a little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your
>> recourse.
>>
>> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put
>> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, not
>> if the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my
>> friends. The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully
>> squat some spectrum on the cheap.
>>
>> FWIW
>>
>> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im
>> only a decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and
>> smacked me like a wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long
>> before I made some bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a
>> woman. Know where you are and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full
>> bukakee on a housewife.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from
>>> the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high
>>> throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in
>>> congested areas anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to
>>> the B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can
>>> do more throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in
>>> one direction with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but
>>> you can only get around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real
>>> full duplex radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you
>>> need a 50/50 split).
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24
>>>> GHz. Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest
>>>> 6 GHz.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more
>>>> throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bp
>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out
>>>> again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We
>>>> have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last
>>>> couple of years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we
>>>> are starting to see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d
>>>> like to make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and
>>>> 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max,
>>>> which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line
>>>> of site we think we are in range for the links we are looking at as far as
>>>> the design tools tell us.�� For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the
>>>> Mimosa product line, we know it pretty well and have all the management
>>>> tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with the Ubiquiti
>>>> AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with Ubiquiti stuff here and there,
>>>> and just don�t have much familiarity with any other options outside of
>>>> AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
>>>>
>>>>    - Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the
>>>>    license and require less babysitting for interference
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    1. Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big
>>>>       consideration for us as it looks like everything we will need is 
>>>> under the
>>>>       limits of the HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as well
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - Little less susceptible to rain fade
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> Cons:
>>>>
>>>>    1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost
>>>>    associated with it
>>>>    2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before
>>>>    applying for the license
>>>>    3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>>>>    4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the
>>>>    HD)
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:
>>>>
>>>>    1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all
>>>>    links
>>>>    2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to
>>>>    deploy
>>>>    3. Higher throughput on the HD
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> Cons:
>>>>
>>>>    1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
>>>>       links now might have noise later
>>>>       2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa,
>>>>       although this isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with 
>>>> lots of
>>>>       Ubiquiti products
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:
>>>>
>>>>    1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels
>>>>       if you see other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are
>>>>       finding it tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and see 
>>>> noise, will
>>>>       we be able to move to other channels.
>>>>       2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP
>>>>       traffic across any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� 
>>>> Seems
>>>>       like a well planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should 
>>>> be able
>>>>       to, but looking for some real world experience.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than
>>>>    the ones already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious 
>>>> questions?
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>> David Coudron
>>>>
>>>> �
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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