Trango did. They subbed out the coordination and licensing to Radyn,
but I don't think they marked it up much.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 8:52:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it. If I turned it
down it was because I could save money by not taking the package.
So, if this exists, it exists. Does SAF do this? Last radios I put up
were SAF.
From:Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is
selling license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In
case of Mimosa, they actually have an arrangement with one of the
coordinators to get the job done at a discounted rate.
So, what I am missing... ?
Regards.
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that
perhaps you should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving
along to your customers. Radio, antenna, license – all in a package
for one simple price.
Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street
and buy tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas
station for gas. Ford may not be in the business of refining
petroleum or making tires, but can certainly drive the car off the
lot. And in all cases in recent memory the dealership also does
everything necessary for obtaining the license plate too.
From:Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>>.I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is
Opinionated to the Nth degree without explanation or possible
understanding of why they have such an opinion..... and that is ok, as
long as it is expressed in that context ...
As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person
offering the opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound
technical backing to support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss
the "I love it" opinions, unless they are backed up to the reason why.
I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can
please everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each
for their strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of
these products shine in the different ares of the three common
requirement that everyone has.. Needs to be Good Quality, Fast
Performance, and Cost Effective..
In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do
a little bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq.
is, this is physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will
greatly help you in gaining a better understanding of what is the
difference one can expect between 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc..
for their deployment region.. (I agree with Steve, in regards to the
missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with Mike H.. that Rain
zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ).
I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License
being high ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes
coordination etc... I would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit
more on this...
:)
Happy Weekend.
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad
about the 5ghz stuff
On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain
region. Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you
and tells you 24 GHZ is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the
KM Im mercan) but some guy in a desert might tell you its an awesome
idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him here, he doesnt care about me
there. If you get into the higher frequencies yout rain zone, it
really matters.
but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing
on th market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD.
Literally nothing.... Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other
actual carrier classes for 200mb... just not worth it, if 24 works
to go anywhere else. You have to remember, UBNT 24ghz (airfiber) is
NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before Motorola
shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.
11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be
a dick about it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If
your in central Indiana, you can contest... This is fact, we just
had to trade off 10db to get a link because it was contested 100
miles away, because our max EIRP could impact that link during its
lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not complaining, if I
had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too.
however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz
link, put it on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum
power all day. You know what you can do? you can go to Starbucks,
get yourelf a nice double frappe vanilla bean, half caf, choco
humpagoat with double froth, and take it to your shop, set it in the
middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary had a little
lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse.
And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going
to put another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt
touch Mimosa, not if the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to
service me and thirteen of my friends. The only reason to put Mimosa
up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some spectrum on the cheap.
FWIW
Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard
way, Im only a decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had
shown up and smacked me like a wife who didnt have the pot pies in
the oven on time long before I made some bad decisions, You have to
treat all your gear like a woman. Know where you are and what her
scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife.
On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability
from the AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on
high throughput. We gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to
license in congested areas anyway.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared
to the B11, but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more,
granted), so it can do more throughput than the AF11 can. You can
get close to a full gig in one direction with the B11 (assuming
you can license enough spectrum), but you can only get around
650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex
radio though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a
50/50 split).
On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com>
wrote:
What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so)
24 GHz. Medium (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11
GHz. Longest 6 GHz.
I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more
throughput on less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:
I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw
it out again to hear additional thoughts as products continue to
evolve.�� We have been doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using
Mimosa products for the last couple of years.�� Their
frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are starting to see
more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to
make the jump to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz
and 24 GHz for that.�� The links we need are fairly short,
6-10 miles max, which pushes the limits of the 24 GHz solutions,
but with a very clean line of site we think we are in range for
the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell
us.�� For 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa
product line, we know it pretty well and have all the management
tools in place for it.�� For 24 GHz we�d likely go with
the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked with
Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much
familiarity with any other options outside of AirFiber.� Here
is where we see the Pros and Cons of the two options:
�
Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:
Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the
license and require less babysitting for interferenceShould
support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for
us as it looks like everything we will need is under the limits
of the HD for sure and likely the AF 24 as wellLittle less
susceptible to rain fade
�
Cons:
Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost
associated with it Have to buy the dish separately, and know
which to use before applying for the license Not quite as much
throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD) More expensive that
the AF 24 (but likely a little less than the HD)
�
�
Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:
All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for all
links No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to
deploy Higher throughput on the HD
�
Cons:
Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even quiet
links now might have noise later Not as familiar with this tool
set as we are with Mimosa, although this isn�t a big
consideration as we have worked with lots of Ubiquiti
productsCost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link
�
Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:
How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move channels
if you see other noise out there?�� We have been looking but
are finding it tough to figure out if we run wide channels, and
see noise, will we be able to move to other channels. Is it
reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP traffic across
any of the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a
well planned link with great line of site at 6 miles should be
able to, but looking for some real world experience.Any oddball
items we should take into consideration other than the ones
already mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious
questions?
�
Thanks,
�
David Coudron
�
