I cannot speak for SAF as a mfg. but most distributors (including ones selling 
SAF) do offer a package. 
Most of them are not marking it up . 
The only ones that I know had a discount negotiated for coordination fess is 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 8:52:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

> If I have been offered a package, I cannot remember it. If I turned it down it
> was because I could save money by not taking the package.
> So, if this exists, it exists. Does SAF do this? Last radios I put up were 
> SAF.
> From: Faisal Imtiaz
> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 5:45 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
> I am guessing you don't know this.. but every distributor that is selling
> license radios, offers a 'licensing coordination' package. In case of Mimosa,
> they actually have an arrangement with one of the coordinators to get the job
> done at a discounted rate.
> So, what I am missing... ?
> Regards.
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net

> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 4:24:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>> If you are selling radios that need licenses, I would think that perhaps you
>> should get some kind of bulk deal and pass the saving along to your 
>> customers.
>> Radio, antenna, license – all in a package for one simple price.
>> Right now we buy the car at one place, then we go across the street and buy
>> tires and put them on the car, then we push it to the gas station for gas. 
>> Ford
>> may not be in the business of refining petroleum or making tires, but can
>> certainly drive the car off the lot. And in all cases in recent memory the
>> dealership also does everything necessary for obtaining the license plate 
>> too.
>> From: Faisal Imtiaz
>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 1:40 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz
>> >>. I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy.
>> Here is the part that I love about the WISP's... Everyone is Opinionated to 
>> the
>> Nth degree without explanation or possible understanding of why they have 
>> such
>> an opinion..... and that is ok, as long as it is expressed in that context 
>> ...
>> As an engineer, I tend to dismiss all opinions, unless the person offering 
>> the
>> opinion can offer an explanation which has some sound technical backing to
>> support it.. Similarly, I also tend to dismiss the "I love it" opinions, 
>> unless
>> they are backed up to the reason why.
>> I am happy to see lots of options in the market space, no one can please
>> everyone ..... FWIW, We use gear from many different mfg. each for their
>> strengths, and not their weaknesses. We find that each of these products 
>> shine
>> in the different ares of the three common requirement that everyone has.. 
>> Needs
>> to be Good Quality, Fast Performance, and Cost Effective..
>> In regards to the debate about Freq., I will suggest to the OP that do a 
>> little
>> bit of reading on the fade characteristics of different Freq. is, this is
>> physics, and totally vendor agnostic, and this will greatly help you in 
>> gaining
>> a better understanding of what is the difference one can expect between
>> 24Gz/23GHZ/18GHZ/11GHZ/6GHZ etc.. for their deployment region.. (I agree with
>> Steve, in regards to the missing context of rain zone, and I also agree with
>> Mike H.. that Rain zone's are a rough guide, not an absolute ref ).
>> I am a bit puzzled about Chuck M's comment about the Cost of License being 
>> high
>> ? and a desire to purchase a 'bundle' which includes coordination etc... I
>> would like to see if Chuck can elaborate a bit more on this...
>> :)
>> Happy Weekend.
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> http://www.snappytelecom.net

>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 11:25:17 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>> I should have caveated that, b11 is crummy. I havent seen much bad about the
>>> 5ghz stuff
>>> On Feb 11, 2018 9:47 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote:

>>>> Mimosa 5 GHz works great for me. Don't use shit antennas.

>>>> -----
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange

>>>> The Brothers WISP

>>>> From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com >
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 12:34:23 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 24 GHz vs 11 GHz

>>>> Seriously, these questions, please, please, please! State your rain region.
>>>> Here,. id like to punch anybody in the eye who lies to you and tells you 
>>>> 24 GHZ
>>>> is a good idea over 1.2 miles ( I dont care the KM Im mercan) but some guy 
>>>> in a
>>>> desert might tell you its an awesome idea at 6 miles, I dont care about him
>>>> here, he doesnt care about me there. If you get into the higher frequencies
>>>> yout rain zone, it really matters.
>>>> but when it works, it works, and in 24 GHZ right now, theres nothing on th
>>>> market that compares to AF, even if you skimp on the HD. Literally 
>>>> nothing....
>>>> Ive looked. you can pay 10k with the other actual carrier classes for 
>>>> 200mb...
>>>> just not worth it, if 24 works to go anywhere else. You have to remember, 
>>>> UBNT
>>>> 24ghz (airfiber) is NOT a UBNT product, its a Motorola product. Just before
>>>> Motorola shit canned, UBNT bought \theirguys.
>>>> 11ghz, totally different beast. you OWN the channel, and you can be a dick 
>>>> about
>>>> it. Like central Illinois wanting to put up a link. If your in central 
>>>> Indiana,
>>>> you can contest... This is fact, we just had to trade off 10db to get a 
>>>> link
>>>> because it was contested 100 miles away, because our max EIRP could impact 
>>>> that
>>>> link during its lowest rain fade hundreds of miles away. Im not 
>>>> complaining, if
>>>> I had their GIS and hired guns, I would have done it too.
>>>> however, I literally can come in across the street on your 24 ghz link, 
>>>> put it
>>>> on the same channel as you and just pump out on maximum power all day. You 
>>>> know
>>>> what you can do? you can go to Starbucks, get yourelf a nice double frappe
>>>> vanilla bean, half caf, choco humpagoat with double froth, and take it to 
>>>> your
>>>> shop, set it in the middle of your chair and sit on it while humming Mary 
>>>> had a
>>>> little lamb. Thats it, thats the end of your recourse.
>>>> And dont ever talk about Mimosa again. Its garbage. If I was going to put
>>>> another link up outside of what I can do again, I wouldnt touch Mimosa, 
>>>> not if
>>>> the Mimosa CEO sent their grandmother to service me and thirteen of my 
>>>> friends.
>>>> The only reason to put Mimosa up beyond 3 miles is to lawfully squat some
>>>> spectrum on the cheap.
>>>> FWIW
>>>> Harshish words, I know, but this is all stuff I learned the hard way, Im 
>>>> only a
>>>> decade into this nonsense, I wish some prick had shown up and smacked me 
>>>> like a
>>>> wife who didnt have the pot pies in the oven on time long before I made 
>>>> some
>>>> bad decisions, You have to treat all your gear like a woman. Know where 
>>>> you are
>>>> and what her scope is in that area. Dont go full bukakee on a housewife.

>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > 
>>>> wrote:

>>>>> Our experience has been we get more throughput and more reliability from 
>>>>> the
>>>>> AF11 than the B11. The B11s always seemed to be choking on high 
>>>>> throughput. We
>>>>> gave up on them, and the AF11s are easier to license in congested areas 
>>>>> anyway.

>>>>> bp
>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>> On 2/10/2018 5:12 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

>>>>>> Yes, the AF11 can do more throughput on the same spectrum compared to 
>>>>>> the B11,
>>>>>> but the B11 can use more spectrum (a lot more, granted), so it can do 
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> throughput than the AF11 can. You can get close to a full gig in one 
>>>>>> direction
>>>>>> with the B11 (assuming you can license enough spectrum), but you can 
>>>>>> only get
>>>>>> around 650Mbps in one direction with the AF11 (it's a real full duplex 
>>>>>> radio
>>>>>> though, so aggregate isn't that much different if you need a 50/50 
>>>>>> split).
>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:56 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > 
>>>>>> wrote:

>>>>>>> What others have said about distance. Short (up to 3 miles or so) 24 
>>>>>>> GHz. Medium
>>>>>>> (up to 8-9 miles) 18 GHz. Long (up to 20 miles) 11 GHz. Longest 6 GHz.

>>>>>>> I disagree with the B11 versus AF11. The AF11 will provide more 
>>>>>>> throughput on
>>>>>>> less spectrum. Probably less expensive too.

>>>>>>> bp
>>>>>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>>>>> On 2/10/2018 2:57 PM, David Coudron wrote:

>>>>>>>> I know this topic has come up before, but thought I would throw it out 
>>>>>>>> again to
>>>>>>>> hear additional thoughts as products continue to evolve.�� We have 
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> doing primarily 5 GHz backhaul using Mimosa products for the last 
>>>>>>>> couple of
>>>>>>>> years.�� Their frequency reuse has really helped us, but we are 
>>>>>>>> starting to
>>>>>>>> see more locations that have lots of noise.�� We�d like to make 
>>>>>>>> the jump
>>>>>>>> to higher frequencies and are looking at 11 GHz and 24 GHz for 
>>>>>>>> that.�� The
>>>>>>>> links we need are fairly short, 6-10 miles max, which pushes the 
>>>>>>>> limits of the
>>>>>>>> 24 GHz solutions, but with a very clean line of site we think we are 
>>>>>>>> in range
>>>>>>>> for the links we are looking at as far as the design tools tell 
>>>>>>>> us.�� For
>>>>>>>> 11 GHz, we would likely stay with the Mimosa product line, we know it 
>>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>>> well and have all the management tools in place for it.�� For 24 
>>>>>>>> GHz we�d
>>>>>>>> likely go with the Ubiquiti AF 24 or AF 24 HD.�� We have worked 
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> Ubiquiti stuff here and there, and just don�t have much familiarity 
>>>>>>>> with any
>>>>>>>> other options outside of AirFiber.� Here is where we see the Pros 
>>>>>>>> and Cons of
>>>>>>>> the two options:

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> Mimosa 11 GHz Pros:

>>>>>>>>    * Licensed, should be clean spectrum for the full term of the 
>>>>>>>> license and
>>>>>>>>     require less babysitting for interference

>>>>>>>>         1.
>>>>>>>> Should support longer links, but that isn�t a big consideration for 
>>>>>>>> us as it
>>>>>>>> looks like everything we will need is under the limits of the HD for 
>>>>>>>> sure and
>>>>>>>> likely the AF 24 as well

>>>>>>>>     *
>>>>>>>> Little less susceptible to rain fade

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> Cons:

>>>>>>>>     1. Have to mess around with the license and there is a cost 
>>>>>>>> associated with it
>>>>>>>>    2. Have to buy the dish separately, and know which to use before 
>>>>>>>> applying for
>>>>>>>>     the license
>>>>>>>>     3. Not quite as much throughput (when compared to the AF 24 HD)
>>>>>>>>     4. More expensive that the AF 24 (but likely a little less than 
>>>>>>>> the HD)

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> Ubiquiti AF 24 Pros:

>>>>>>>>     1. All in one unit, easy to figure out what to have on hand for 
>>>>>>>> all links
>>>>>>>>     2. No messing around with licenses, making it much quicker to 
>>>>>>>> deploy
>>>>>>>>     3. Higher throughput on the HD

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> Cons:

>>>>>>>>        1. Unlicensed.� Might fight other noise out there, and even 
>>>>>>>> quiet links now
>>>>>>>>         might have noise later
>>>>>>>>        2. Not as familiar with this tool set as we are with Mimosa, 
>>>>>>>> although this
>>>>>>>>         isn�t a big consideration as we have worked with lots of 
>>>>>>>> Ubiquiti products

>>>>>>>>     *
>>>>>>>> Cost of HD is pretty high for an unlicensed link

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> Here are some questions we are hoping for help with:

>>>>>>>>        1. How much room in the unlicensed band is there to move 
>>>>>>>> channels if you see
>>>>>>>>        other noise out there?�� We have been looking but are 
>>>>>>>> finding it tough to
>>>>>>>>        figure out if we run wide channels, and see noise, will we be 
>>>>>>>> able to move to
>>>>>>>>         other channels.
>>>>>>>>        2. Is it reasonable to think you can push 1.2 aggregate IP 
>>>>>>>> traffic across any of
>>>>>>>>        the three options B11, AF24 or AF24HD?�� Seems like a well 
>>>>>>>> planned link
>>>>>>>>        with great line of site at 6 miles should be able to, but 
>>>>>>>> looking for some real
>>>>>>>>         world experience.

>>>>>>>>     *
>>>>>>>> Any oddball items we should take into consideration other than the 
>>>>>>>> ones already
>>>>>>>> mentioned here? Or are we missing some obvious questions?

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> Thanks,

>>>>>>>> �

>>>>>>>> David Coudron

>>>>>>>> �

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