Racism is certainly real and still prevalent yeah It is not as bad as when I was in high school in New Jersey in the 70s and interracial dating (black/white) caused serious violence (smashing windows , overturning cars, beatings etc.). I experienced assaults myself due to having a black gf in the early 80s... and being in the wrong neighborhoods of Philly and not hiding it...
But still... Half the reason I left HK after 9 years and becoming a permanent resident was the Chinese gov't National Security law and treatment of the anti-govt protestors... and half was the way the local HK-ese treated individual mainland Chinese (who had nothing to do with Chinese gov't) -- including my wife -- calling them cockroaches constantly and harassing them publicly... A close friend is one of the best hackers in the works and also Ethiopian ... the BS he has gone thru in the Western tech industry as a result of being black would surprise zero black people ... like passing every technical job interview at a big tech with maximum success then suddenly being rejected as "not a cultural fit" etc... DEI rules have often been implemented awkwardly and stupidly, but also, they often haven't even worked to solve the problem of discriminatory hiring One of my adult sons is Muslim, he was detained a week once in an airport for no crime other than being young, white and traveling with a Quran and funny hat... Age discrimination is real also. My company's PR agency will always describe me as having "20 years of experience in the AI field" --- because saying "30 years" (egads, it's 37 yrs since I got my PhD !!) would make me seem too old to pay attention to.... All this -- along w many other things -- makes the talk of aligning AGI ethics with human ethics a bit too simplistic.... somehow we need to infuse the AI with the best of human compassion and ethics and understanding, and avoid it absorbing the worst.... for an ASI to treat us the way we treat each other would be complexly problematic... Which actually is one of the reasons why we need other AI approaches than "train systems on the internet and then try to RL them to ignore the bad parts and slap guardrails on them to try to prevent the really bad stuff." I think your logic transformer, YKY, is a quite interesting direction in this regard... and I don't need to see competitive benchmark results to take it seriously... but it's also true that with things moving so fast in the AI field and so many interesting things happening, it is hard to find time to study all the new things emerging. I have not read your paper on logic transformers yet... can you re-post a link to it? I will try to find time to take a look... -- Ben On Tue, Oct 6, 2026 at 10:26 AM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> wrote: > > YKY, I am sorry you are the victim of racism. Here in the US, Asians on > average score higher than whites on IQ and academic tests, have more > education, higher income, longer life expectancy (by 5 years), lower crime > rates as both perpetrators and victims and lower imprisonment rates. It is > the opposite for Blacks. The same pattern is seen in other countries > regardless of which race is in the majority or runs the government. > > Racism exists between countries too. I have visited about 60 countries and it > is everywhere. In the Caribbean, which is mostly Black, the White minority is > obviously wealthier and the poorest islands like Haiti have fewer Whites than > wealthier islands like Aruba. Hong Kong has the highest life expectancy in > the world. China has the fastest growing economy in the world and leads the > US in research papers. China's homicide rate is 1/2 the rate of Europe, 1/10 > the US, and 1/50 the Caribbean. > > This is hard to explain. When I look at a US census map I see that every city > is divided into White, Black, Hispanic, and Asian sections even though racial > discrimination in housing has been illegal since the 1960's. High tech STEM > jobs mostly go to Asian and White men even though race and sex discrimination > in employment has been illegal since the 1970's and most large companies have > published policies that align with the law. College entrance exams used to > require higher scores for Asians and lower for Blacks to achieve racial > balance, but this policy was banned a few years ago. > > So why is everyone racist? Why does every country have borders to keep out > people who mostly look different or don't speak the language? Why do our > friends and neighbors mostly have the same skin color? Why are LLMs racist in > spite of our efforts? Why has the decades long effort of the media to portray > Whites and Blacks together as if race didn't matter been a failure? Why did > school bussing fail? Why did anti discrimination laws fail? Why did DEI fail? > > Maybe it is actually useful to predict a person's behavior from their > appearance. Maybe it is useful to not give children the same legal rights as > adults. Maybe it is useful when you have to choose between walking past a > group of young Black men or crossing the street to walk past a group of older > White women, even though you know your decision is racist. > > If you want to eliminate racism you must eliminate the cultural and > behavioral differences between races that make racism useful. The correct > answer is that these differences exist because of discrimination, which has > opposite effects on different races, or a history of colonialism or slavery > that nobody alive today remembers. The incorrect answer is genetics. Nobody > disputes that skin color is inherited. It is somewhat controversial, but > still a fact that Blacks of West African descent excel at track and field and > some sports like basketball because they have more fast twitch muscle and can > run faster and jump higher. But it is forbidden to suggest that there are IQ > differences between races, even though we know from adopted twin studies that > IQ is mostly inherited. There aren't any recent studies on IQ because social > scientists know that if you do a study, your paper will be rejected and you > will be denounced as a racist and your work will only be cited by white > supremists and your career will be destroyed, like how James Watson, who > shared the Nobel prize for his discovery of the structure of DNA, was fired > from his position as research director at Cold Springs for suggesting that > Blacks have lower IQ because of genetics. > > I think in the next century we will have a world without war, borders, > prisons, or poverty. But that doesn't help you now. I'm sorry that life isn't > fair. > > -- Matt Mahoney, [email protected] > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2026, 10:11 PM YKY (Yan King Yin, 甄景贤) > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 29 Sept 2026, 02:02 Matt Mahoney, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi YKY! Do you have any experimental results for your TicTacToe or Tiny >>> Stories tests? I think a paper focused just on that would have a greater >>> chance of acceptance than a paper with lots of ideas but no supporting >>> evidence. How does your system compare with LLMs asked to solve the same >>> problems? >> >> >> I have open-source code and the superiority of Logic Transformer has been >> verified several times by different tests. (But the repos and documentation >> are currently rather disorganized). I'm very confident of the breakthrough >> and will try to publish better-written papers. But that's not what I'm >> complaining about, which is racism. >> >> The reason I'm so slow to reply is that I know I'm talking to a bunch of >> stubborn people who will refuse to face the problem of racism till the >> bitter end. If Singularity is next Monday, they will remain racist till >> 11:59:59 on Sunday. >> >> We can add a clause to any company's constitution or policies, that all >> business processes are open and transparent, and eliminates discrimination, >> which can be subject to AI-assisted retroactive adjudication if disputes >> arise. I will do that in my current DAO, but other AI companies may not >> adopt the same. >> >> In my vision for the near future, the companies that refuse to add the >> anti-racist clause will get very bad reputation and they will eventually >> succumb to public pressure. Someone needs to make a start in this >> direction.... >> >> >>> I see you are using Copilot to develop your code. An obvious application of >>> a hybrid symbolic neural approach would be to ask Copilot to solve a >>> problem and let it write the code to solve the part that can be done more >>> efficiently with a symbolic approach. Simple math is like that. Can you do >>> the same with logic? Can you demonstrate the advantages of your approach on >>> existing benchmarks or non toy problems? >>> >>> -- Matt Mahoney >> >> >> It succeeded on Tic-tac-toe and outperformed traditional Transformers, that >> was when I realized I was on to something. Later tests with natural >> language corpuses demonstrate beyond simple games. I think I'm ready to >> train a large model from scratch, but I'm still looking for helpers and busy >> with the political and DAO stuff. >> >> https://github.com/Cybernetic1/RL-TTT-experiments >> https://github.com/Cybernetic1/AGI-experiments >> https://github.com/Cybernetic1/AGI-prototype >> > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + participants + > delivery options Permalink -- -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org CEO, SingularityNET / True AGI / ASI Alliance Chair, AGI Society "One must have chaos in one's heart to give birth to a dancing star" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T04fde0bcaa976a4b-M1755b2633d8fbcd9630f485f Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
