Colin: The AGI community is unique in the world and in the history of science in expecting a computed model to _be_ the original. A computed model of fire does not burst into flames. A computed model of cognition does not cognise. A computed model of flight does not fly.
You just won't get it (see attached). This is a generational/acculturated blind. J When we get over this it'll be like a dam-burst of progress. Right now were as stuck as we were in 1955. Colin, The AGI field - & it's the whole field, not just Ben & associates/ friends here - is indeed unique. I certainly can't think of any field anywhere that expects the old, existing paradigm that clearly doesn't work in the new field - & hasn't ever worked in the slightest - to be capable of solving it. The blindness and ignorance of the most basic principle of creativity - BREAK ( and in this case shatter) the paradigm, don't WORSHIP it, Logan, Ben et al - are truly awesome. From: Colin Geoffrey Hales Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 7:38 AM To: AGI Subject: RE: [agi] Embodied approaches to computation Hi Logan, Already know about Turing Completeness. Irrelevant. The whole concept begs computability. We do not know, for brains, if all processes in the brain are computable. We do not know. Nobody knows. Question begging at best. There are masses of uncomputable numbers. Human brains found them. Penrose is right. Also, the universe _as_ a computation is not a model computed on a computer. This is map/territory confusion on an industrial scale. There are 2 essential things in brains: 1) Networked action potentials (an EM phenomenon expressed by nano-scopic chemical-level transmembrane EM processes) 2) EM coupling (ephapsis). Action at a distance over 0.2mm scale distances (ish), generated by 1). Everything else is EM noise or biological background overhead and can be replaced by signal processing. 1) And 2) are what you use to make an AGI. You do not simulate, emulate or mimic either of them. You replicate the physics of them. You do not replace the EM fields with the EM fields of a computer that waves a model about in a manner that is totally detached from the field expression and different from one computer to another, even one program invocation to another. The AGI community is unique in the world and in the history of science in expecting a computed model to _be_ the original. A computed model of fire does not burst into flames. A computed model of cognition does not cognise. A computed model of flight does not fly. You just won't get it (see attached). This is a generational/acculturated blind. J When we get over this it'll be like a dam-burst of progress. Right now were as stuck as we were in 1955. So I'll leave it there. No I won't. I'll write it up and publish it someplace. Cheers Colin From: Logan Streondj [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 3:31 PM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Embodied approaches to computation Colin, please learn about turing completeness. All concievable algorithms can be represented. The biophysics of the brain has long since been simulated via neural nets. Now we are simply working on various ways of coalescing data and algorithms. For instance OpenCog is comprised of many different "Weak" or "narrow" AI algorithms. Can think of it as add several "narrows" and you get a "wide", though there is of course also the interface, of how to use them and such. Human language is a mode of intercommunication across space and time, and thus can be used as an interface. As am implementing in General Intelligence Operating System. So yes while there may be many details to a biological cell, it has a basic plan of it's function or structure, written in DNA, the source code language of the body. Our bodies give us stability, sense of space and continuity, also allowing us to modify the surrounding world. Those are the basic turing abilities , which make us infinite beings, capable of creating any conceivable idea. This humans, computers, animals, plants, rocks, wind, fire all have in common. We are all beings of light in bodies of geometrical form. Simply in different amounts of knowledge, collected useful light or past-experience. So wheras biological brains store information is a neural-net, which gets partially over-written with every reading, i.e. every time you remember something, you're recreating the memory. Technological brains allow a wider variety of storage options, with potentially higher stability. The road to transhumanism started, when people began using tools, the road to AGI started with writing. There are billions of people around the world that worship a few select books. Many people ascribe great intelligence to these books. Indeed writing is what underpins rights, righteousness, and justice. The bulk of the world economy is based on some electronic writings So in conclusion, while physics may be relevant to psychic phenomena, language is more relevant to intelligence.. Besides once there is sufficient knowledge, we'll know how to sense what the human pineal-gland or mind's eye can. Logan Streondj AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
