Colin, A huge amount of $$ goes into modeling the brain, of course; far more than into AGI... it's just called neuroscience and not AI.... And the conclusions of that field of empirical science seem not to agree with your intuitions...
ben On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Colin Geoffrey Hales < [email protected]> wrote: > So you admit that all AGI is doing is simulating. It’s not an actual > anything. AGI with computers is merely simulation/study of cognitive > processes, not cognition.**** > > ** ** > > If AGI were flight, this is its story:**** > > ** ** > > It’s the 1950s. You want to fly. You build a flight simulator, get in, fly > someplace, get out, and you are not there! Undeterred, you build another. > Same result. And again.**** > > ** ** > > Again. Again. Again. For *60 years*.**** > > ** ** > > Spectacular flight simulators litter the science landscape, but flight > eludes you. At no stage does it occur to you that the physics of flight are > the place to start.**** > > ** ** > > For 60 years, $Millions have been spent every year chasing the AGI rainbow > with computers. [Billions are planned]( > http://www.nature.com/news/computer-modelling-brain-in-a-box-1.10066).**** > > ** ** > > Past and planned funding for AGI using brain physics? _$Nil_.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > I am suggesting that using actual brain physics, and NOT a computer might, > like it has for thousands of years in science, make actual cognition. Brain > physics could do with non_zero level of $attention, instead of > unprecedented and factually unsupported religious headbanging, failure > after failure.**** > > ** ** > > You build cognition... then you work out how it works. NOT the other way > around. Just like we have done elsewhere for millennia.**** > > ** ** > > Colin**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > *From:* Sergio Pissanetzky [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Friday, 8 June 2012 2:49 AM > > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* RE: [agi] Embodied approaches to computation**** > > ** ** > > COLIN> computed fire physics studies fire but does not make fire.**** > > SERGIO> Of course not. But it can predict fire pretty well. **** > > ** ** > > Sergio.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Colin Geoffrey Hales [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Monday, June 04, 2012 9:15 PM > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* RE: [agi] Embodied approaches to computation**** > > ** ** > > Is the article about studying computational models of cognition (weak-AI), > or making an artificial brain (strong-AI) with computation. The same way > computed fire physics studies fire but does not make fire.**** > > ** ** > > You can interpret it the way you want. Watch out.**** > > ** ** > > A strong-AI presupposition cannot be used to bypass the reality that the > real brain gets experiences from the real physics of brain tissue, not from > I/O signals (whether there is embodiment or not). **** > > ** ** > > I know this shakes the AGI community tree. This will not go away as a > weakness in the discussion until we all face up to it. To build an AGI you > must build the physics of a brain, not the physics of a computer.**** > > ** ** > > Cheers,**** > > ** ** > > Colin**** > > PS. No, physics is not digital, The C-T thesis is irrelevant/misapplied, > cognition is not computation and Moore’s law won’t fix any of these > shortfalls (preemptive rebuttal). Sorry.**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Sunday, May 27, 2012 8:58 AM > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* [agi] Embodied approaches to computation**** > > ** ** > > Pezzulo, G., Barsalou, L.W., Cangelosi, A., Fischer, M.A., McRae, K., > Spivey, M. (2011). The mechanics of embodiment: A dialogue on embodiment > and computational modeling. Frontiers in > Cognition<http://psychology.emory.edu/cognition/barsalou/papers/Pezzulo%20et%20al%20-%20Frontiers%20Psych%202011-%20embodiment%20&%20computation.pdf> > , *2*(5), 1-21.**** > > **** > > Embodied theories are increasingly challenging traditional views of > cognition by arguing that**** > > conceptual representations that constitute our knowledge are grounded in > sensory and motor**** > > experiences, and processed at this sensorimotor level, rather than being > represented and processed**** > > abstractly in an amodal conceptual system. Given the established empirical > foundation, and the**** > > relatively underspecified theories to date, many researchers are extremely > interested in embodied**** > > cognition but are clamoring for more mechanistic implementations...**** > > **** > > > http://psychology.emory.edu/cognition/barsalou/papers/Pezzulo%20et%20al%20-%20Frontiers%20Psych%202011-%20embodiment%20&%20computation.pdf > **** > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/18883996-f0d58d57>| > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription**** > > <http://www.listbox.com>**** > > ** ** > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-f886df0a>| > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription**** > > <http://www.listbox.com>**** > > ** ** > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/18883996-f0d58d57>| > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription**** > > <http://www.listbox.com>**** > > ** ** > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-f886df0a>| > Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription**** > > <http://www.listbox.com>**** > > ** ** > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-11ac2389> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
