What is the difference between you, and the differential equations governing the activity of your neurons and glia, etc.?
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote: > Ben:The algorithms aren't intelligent, but system designed based on > > algorithms may in some cases be intelligent.. > > Well, great, but that still sounds like magic sauce - so maybe my "perhaps > there are others..." point is v. valid. > IOW you're not offering the slightest real differentiation of the "system > based on..." etc from a mere algorithm. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Ben Goertzel" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:20 PM > To: "AGI" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation > >> "Algorithms are very intelligent" is sorta like "Systems of nonlinear >> differential equations are good at flying" ;-p ... >> >> Algorithms are mathematical abstractions, that can be used to guide >> development of software or hardware operating specific systems, which >> can then be set loose to interact with the world in various ways... >> >> The algorithms aren't intelligent, but system designed based on >> algorithms may in some cases be intelligent.. >> >> -- Ben G >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Well, everyone here thinks that algorithms are v. intelligent - if not >>> now, >>> then soon, with a little scaling and more sophisticated heuristics. Just >>> a >>> bit more of the same, old. >>> >>> I agree that they are only slavish routines (no matter how complex) and >>> will >>> never be more than a hyperspecialist form of low-level intelligence. But >>> you >>> haven't persuaded me (or I suspect anyone else) that you're actually >>> offering anything different - not even *conceptually.* You *sound* like >>> Pei >>> who was - perhaps still is - offering a "non-algorithmic" form of logic - >>> except that it turned out, when you pressed him, to be just another >>> algorithm after all. >>> >>> Perhaps there are others like y'all, recognising the limits of algo's, >>> but >>> trying for magic sauce solutions. >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Sergio Pissanetzky" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:51 PM >>> To: "AGI" <[email protected]> >>> >>> Subject: RE: [agi] Analog Computation >>> >>>> Alan, >>>> >>>> That's nonsense. A camera, or a person, can look at a black and white >>>> scene, >>>> light-on or light-off. A person will still recognize the image. How? You >>>> can't tell. You can only write a monstruous program that will do nothing >>>> but >>>> what you teach it to do. And you can't improve on that. Your robots are >>>> clumsy, and you can't improve on that. Your chess-playing machine can't >>>> play >>>> checkers, and can't even learn how. You need a human to improve on that. >>>> You >>>> can't do OO-analysis, you need a human to do that. Your semantic web ... >>>> where is it? You can't integrate systems, you need a human to do that. >>>> This >>>> is an AGI blog, and writing program is not AGI, it is using human slaves >>>> to >>>> row. >>>> >>>> Sergio >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Alan Grimes [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:46 PM >>>> To: AGI >>>> Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation >>>> >>>> Sergio Pissanetzky wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'll use a camera instead of the retina. When light hits a pixel in >>>>> that camera, an electric signal is produced and travels to the brain, >>>>> I mean the computer. That's it, that's the causal relation, light + >>>>> pixel (and the pixel has a position, which is how spatial information >>>>> gets encoded) cause signal. Multiply that by 1 million pixels, and you >>>>> have a big causal set. From the signals alone, you can't tell that the >>>>> camera is looking at your mother's face (in Hofstadter's words). But >>>>> if you display the signals on a screen, your brain will immediately >>>>> recognize the image. That's EI. I did it on a small scale on my PC, >>>>> and I now want to do it on a larger scale. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Do you have ANY idea how cameras work? >>>> >>>> For every pixel, for every scan interval, the sensor will be affected by >>>> tens of thousands to millions of photons... >>>> >>>> What you get is a number. Typically, in most applications between 0 and >>>> 255. >>>> We can abstract that to some floating point value between 0 and 1 where >>>> 0 >>>> is >>>> almost no light and 1 is sensor saturation. >>>> >>>> You are given a matrix of these, We will assume perfect pixels that are >>>> vertically aligned and there are no sensor artifacts. >>>> >>>> Your AI must find and encode the simplest possible theory of what >>>> objects >>>> must exist out in the world to have excited the sensors on your camera >>>> in >>>> such a way. >>>> >>>> That is visual perception. >>>> >>>> I'm getting sick and tired of reading this ignorant crap out of you. I >>>> expect it from the list clown but you should be smarter than this, >>>> that's >>>> why I'm so disappointed in you. =( >>>> >>>> -- >>>> E T F >>>> N H E >>>> D E D >>>> >>>> Powers are not rights. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>> AGI >>>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>> RSS Feed: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/18883996-f0d58d57 >>>> Modify Your Subscription: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> d2 >>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>> AGI >>>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>> RSS Feed: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 >>>> >>>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-11ac2389 >>> Modify Your Subscription: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ben Goertzel, PhD >> http://goertzel.org >> >> "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-11ac2389 > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
