jeez Sergio - lazy
this'll do:
(note the key part - the infant can't manage the final roll with one hand,
so he creatively uses two hands & is rightfully v. pleased with his genius -
note also for the algorithmically-minded, the infant does *not* do precise
aligning, only fluidly aligning - this to repeat is true AGI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-RM9VVHPII
p.s. first note was to Ben, not you
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sergio Pissanetzky" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 3:50 PM
To: "AGI" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [agi] Analog Computation
Mike, you are holding me hostage. I would have to be a magician to answer
anything in such conditions. People work, and think, and c hange
parameters
to compare. That's the creative process you are advocating. So what would
an
infant do if confronted with blocks he can't pick up? Or that wouldn't
stay
where he puts them?
You are not hostage to my question, you can simply reply "I don't know."
Sergio
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 8:52 AM
To: AGI
Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation
Huh?*?!
You aren't answering the question - & I didn't expect you to. My main
interest right here is in the psychology of creativity - and how people
get
stuck or blocked at different levels. You seem to be a pure magic saucer -
i.e."magic sauce to come at a later stage". Sergio is "magic X sauce
with
miracle ingredient". The sauce has a v. definite name and principle, (EI)
but no one knows how it works to solve the problem (hence "miracle
ingredient").
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ben Goertzel" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:31 PM
To: "AGI" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation
What is the difference between you, and the differential equations
governing the activity of your neurons and glia, etc.?
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:26 PM, Mike Tintner
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Ben:The algorithms aren't intelligent, but system designed based on
algorithms may in some cases be intelligent..
Well, great, but that still sounds like magic sauce - so maybe my
"perhaps there are others..." point is v. valid.
IOW you're not offering the slightest real differentiation of the
"system based on..." etc from a mere algorithm.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ben Goertzel" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:20 PM
To: "AGI" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation
"Algorithms are very intelligent" is sorta like "Systems of
nonlinear differential equations are good at flying" ;-p ...
Algorithms are mathematical abstractions, that can be used to guide
development of software or hardware operating specific systems,
which can then be set loose to interact with the world in various
ways...
The algorithms aren't intelligent, but system designed based on
algorithms may in some cases be intelligent..
-- Ben G
On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:04 PM, Mike Tintner
<[email protected]>
wrote:
Well, everyone here thinks that algorithms are v. intelligent - if
not now, then soon, with a little scaling and more sophisticated
heuristics.
Just
a
bit more of the same, old.
I agree that they are only slavish routines (no matter how complex)
and will never be more than a hyperspecialist form of low-level
intelligence.
But
you
haven't persuaded me (or I suspect anyone else) that you're
actually offering anything different - not even *conceptually.* You
*sound* like Pei who was - perhaps still is - offering a
"non-algorithmic" form of logic - except that it turned out, when
you pressed him, to be just another algorithm after all.
Perhaps there are others like y'all, recognising the limits of
algo's, but trying for magic sauce solutions.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sergio Pissanetzky" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:51 PM
To: "AGI" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [agi] Analog Computation
Alan,
That's nonsense. A camera, or a person, can look at a black and
white scene, light-on or light-off. A person will still recognize
the image. How?
You
can't tell. You can only write a monstruous program that will do
nothing but what you teach it to do. And you can't improve on
that. Your robots are clumsy, and you can't improve on that. Your
chess-playing machine can't play checkers, and can't even learn
how. You need a human to improve on that.
You
can't do OO-analysis, you need a human to do that. Your semantic
web ...
where is it? You can't integrate systems, you need a human to do
that.
This
is an AGI blog, and writing program is not AGI, it is using human
slaves to row.
Sergio
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Grimes [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:46 PM
To: AGI
Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation
Sergio Pissanetzky wrote:
I'll use a camera instead of the retina. When light hits a pixel
in that camera, an electric signal is produced and travels to the
brain, I mean the computer. That's it, that's the causal
relation, light + pixel (and the pixel has a position, which is
how spatial information gets encoded) cause signal. Multiply that
by 1 million pixels, and you have a big causal set. From the
signals alone, you can't tell that the camera is looking at your
mother's face (in Hofstadter's words). But if you display the
signals on a screen, your brain will immediately recognize the
image. That's EI. I did it on a small scale on my PC, and I now
want to do it on a larger scale.
Do you have ANY idea how cameras work?
For every pixel, for every scan interval, the sensor will be
affected by tens of thousands to millions of photons...
What you get is a number. Typically, in most applications between
0 and 255.
We can abstract that to some floating point value between 0 and 1
where
0
is
almost no light and 1 is sensor saturation.
You are given a matrix of these, We will assume perfect pixels
that are vertically aligned and there are no sensor artifacts.
Your AI must find and encode the simplest possible theory of what
objects must exist out in the world to have excited the sensors on
your camera in such a way.
That is visual perception.
I'm getting sick and tired of reading this ignorant crap out of
you. I expect it from the list clown but you should be smarter
than this, that's why I'm so disappointed in you. =(
--
E T F
N H E
D E D
Powers are not rights.
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"My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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"My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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