Youtube it. What's unquestionable is that infants (& all humans) are
creative - they will find ever new ways to handle and manipulate objects,
ever new objects to combine (and continually work out for themselves how
strange if relatively simple new machines work) - and none of this can be
accounted for by any form of inference or logic.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sergio Pissanetzky" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 2:33 PM
To: "AGI" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [agi] Analog Computation
Mike,
well, for one thing, I am definitely not offering an algorithm. Pei is
offering a non-axiomatic form of logic. But I am writing on a different
subject. You posted a video showing a toddler that piles up blocks. I have
a
question. Suppose the blocks are made somewhat bigger, big enough so the
toddler can not grab them. Or perhaps heavier, so he can't pick them up.
What will the toddler do? I think he will push the blocks and try to align
them. What do you think? Has anyone done this experiment?
I also thought of a toddler in the space station. Nothing stays where he
puts it. But give him sticky blocks, or magnetized blocks. Will he not try
to stick them all together? In a line, or just in a blob?
Sergio
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 8:04 AM
To: AGI
Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation
Well, everyone here thinks that algorithms are v. intelligent - if not
now,
then soon, with a little scaling and more sophisticated heuristics. Just a
bit more of the same, old.
I agree that they are only slavish routines (no matter how complex) and
will
never be more than a hyperspecialist form of low-level intelligence. But
you
haven't persuaded me (or I suspect anyone else) that you're actually
offering anything different - not even *conceptually.* You *sound* like
Pei
who was - perhaps still is - offering a "non-algorithmic" form of logic -
except that it turned out, when you pressed him, to be just another
algorithm after all.
Perhaps there are others like y'all, recognising the limits of algo's,
but
trying for magic sauce solutions.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sergio Pissanetzky" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2012 1:51 PM
To: "AGI" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [agi] Analog Computation
Alan,
That's nonsense. A camera, or a person, can look at a black and white
scene, light-on or light-off. A person will still recognize the image.
How? You can't tell. You can only write a monstruous program that will
do nothing but what you teach it to do. And you can't improve on that.
Your robots are clumsy, and you can't improve on that. Your
chess-playing machine can't play checkers, and can't even learn how.
You need a human to improve on that.
You
can't do OO-analysis, you need a human to do that. Your semantic web ...
where is it? You can't integrate systems, you need a human to do that.
This
is an AGI blog, and writing program is not AGI, it is using human
slaves to row.
Sergio
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Grimes [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2012 5:46 PM
To: AGI
Subject: Re: [agi] Analog Computation
Sergio Pissanetzky wrote:
I'll use a camera instead of the retina. When light hits a pixel in
that camera, an electric signal is produced and travels to the brain,
I mean the computer. That's it, that's the causal relation, light +
pixel (and the pixel has a position, which is how spatial information
gets encoded) cause signal. Multiply that by 1 million pixels, and
you have a big causal set. From the signals alone, you can't tell
that the camera is looking at your mother's face (in Hofstadter's
words). But if you display the signals on a screen, your brain will
immediately recognize the image. That's EI. I did it on a small scale
on my PC, and I now want to do it on a larger scale.
Do you have ANY idea how cameras work?
For every pixel, for every scan interval, the sensor will be affected
by tens of thousands to millions of photons...
What you get is a number. Typically, in most applications between 0
and 255.
We can abstract that to some floating point value between 0 and 1
where 0 is almost no light and 1 is sensor saturation.
You are given a matrix of these, We will assume perfect pixels that
are vertically aligned and there are no sensor artifacts.
Your AI must find and encode the simplest possible theory of what
objects must exist out in the world to have excited the sensors on
your camera in such a way.
That is visual perception.
I'm getting sick and tired of reading this ignorant crap out of you. I
expect it from the list clown but you should be smarter than this,
that's why I'm so disappointed in you. =(
--
E T F
N H E
D E D
Powers are not rights.
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