It's true, Ben is really like an angel investor, since he has a high profile AGI project, and invests some time in interacting, with our low-profile AGI projects, or even AGI ideas for some.
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > > Andrew... > > [changed the thread name] > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Andrew G. Babian <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> So to throw something somewhat more positive out there, I just looked at >> the website of the people working at Google Research. They've got >> literally tons of people in areas like machine perception, AI, machine >> learning, machine translation. It does give me the feeling that there are >> people, and with enough plugging, they will eventually get AGI as just a >> natural progression. Of, course, I think they field and the stuff they use >> has some missing bits, but that's just me. You all can tilt at all the >> windmills y'all want, but they have money and talent at a level we can't >> approach. >> > > I have visited Google Research in Mountain View a number of times, and I > know a bunch of researchers there fairly well... > > Of course their staff are intelligent and talented and so forth.... And > they are well paid and have a lot of data and computing resources. > > I don't think their staff are supernaturally talented or anything like > that.... Some of the folks I am working with on AI, in Hong Kong and Addis > Ababa, are every bit as talented and clever as the Google Research > staff.... Silicon Valley does not have a monopoly on brilliant tech > talent, though they may well have the world's best publicists ;-) ... > > In the end, only a very miniscule portion of the resources of Google -- or > any other current large tech company -- is oriented toward AGI in any > direct or semi-direct way. When AGI is pursued within these firms, it's > currently in teeny-tiny skunkworks projects.... And these skunkworks > projects tend to get quasi-randomly dissolved when corporate priorities > change (e.g. Sam Adam's now-dormant Joshua Blue AGI project at IBM; some > previous Google AGI skunkworks projects I know about via personal > commmunications...) > > So, consider the two possibilities: > > A) > A large company with a teeny skunkworks AGI team, plus a lot of smart guys > working on other projects peripherally related to AGI > > B) > A small team working outside any large company or institution, with > uncertain but non-zero funding, but focused directly on AGI > > ... Is it really so obvious that A is going to get to the end goal before > B? I don't think so.... Based on general common sense, it seems either > one is possible.... > > There is, of course, a scientific question here: Whether AGI can be > achieved by basically integrating a bunch of components created for non-AGI > purposes, with some sort of relatively simple "AGI controller" layered on > top of it.... I personally don't think this can work. I think that even > if the **ideas** underlying a bunch of narrow-AI components are sufficient > to guide the creation of modules of an AGI system, in actual practice, the > way narrow-AI systems are written generally precludes their integration > into an AGI framework.... Integrating components into an AGI framework > generally requires allowing each component to infuse knowledge and guidance > into the others at a deep level, and generally narrow-AI software is not > designed or coded to allow this; and redesigning a piece of narrow-AI > software in such a way requires a lot of deep thinking as well as hard > engineering.... I have been involved with this sort of work a lot... > > Finally, and hopefully without being insulting to anyone, I would like to > point out that the folks who post on this list are not remotely > representative of the community of "AGI researchers unaffiliated with large > corporations." .... The folks who choose to spend a lot of time reading > and writing on AGI e-mail lists form a quite particular sub-population. On > average, they tend to have fewer professional qualifications and less > funding for their work, than plenty of other AGI researchers out there... > > For instance, I think Kris Thorisson at Reykjavik University is making a > real stab at AGI, as are the guys at Deep Mind in the UK (Demis Hassabis, > Shane Legg etc., with funding from Founders Fund).... Dileep George is > making his own effort, and will be keynoting at AGI-13 in Beijing.... So > is Itamar Arel at U. Tennessee Knoxville (currently working on adding > action & reinforcement to his deep learning perception system). There are > plenty of others. These guys (like me) are not working for Google or M$ > or IBM for a reason.... We have probably all been recruited by these firms > repeatedly (I know I have), but prefer to pursue our own visions rather > than being directed by corporate bosses, even though this means we will > have a lot less funding and a lot more hassles.... Note that none of > these other guys are on this email list... > > I myself find I have little time to pay attention to this list lately, > because I'm spending half my time working on AGI, and half my time working > on income-generating (and hopefully eventually wealth-generating) narrow-AI > stuff (principally the application of machine learning and NLP to financial > prediction). > > I think this list serves a useful purpose, in that someone who is utterly > new to the AGI field can sign up and quickly find others with a common > interest.... But please don't assume that it reflects the state of the art > in non-big-corporate AGI projects !! > > -- > Ben Goertzel > (list founder, and former list administrator...) > > > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/5037279-a88c7a6d> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
