This sums up google great: http://twilightoftheidols.org/google-is-garbage/
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Samantha Atkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I think Ray Kurzweil is up to something AGI-ish at google, or so I >> gather from skimming the news. Maybe this was mentioned in the other >> thread which I haven't read yet. It sounded like one of a number of >> "10 years and it will work" projects that have surfaced in the news >> lately. Mike A >> > > > I am not a Google insider but from what I have seen from outside and > reading between the lines they are working hard on: > 1) SIRI killer - full speech understanding by computational systems or as > close as they can get > 2) much better NLP > 3) using their Big Data skills and huge corpus to statistically brute > force a lot of information extraction and narrow AI type results > 4) using (2) and (3) to build then next gen super Watson type > functionality and incorporating that into current and future projects. > > Offhand I don't see that any of that gives actual AGI although it will > arguably make all of us effectively smarter if done well. > > I agree very much with Ben. Large company skunkworks on more or less blue > sky projects are notoriously fickle and prone to having their bubble burst > on the rocks of corporate politics. Alternately if you can get a gig where > basically they just pay you and a team without much hassle for a few years > then the research is so locked down secret to the world and even to 99% of > the company that that generates its own difficulties. > > > - s > >> >> On 4/20/13, Logan Streondj <[email protected]> wrote: >> > It's true, Ben is really like an angel investor, >> > since he has a high profile AGI project, >> > and invests some time in interacting, >> > with our low-profile AGI projects, >> > or even AGI ideas for some. >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Andrew... >> >> >> >> [changed the thread name] >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Andrew G. Babian >> >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >> >>> >> >>> So to throw something somewhat more positive out there, I just looked >> >>> at >> >>> the website of the people working at Google Research. They've got >> >>> literally tons of people in areas like machine perception, AI, machine >> >>> learning, machine translation. It does give me the feeling that there >> >>> are >> >>> people, and with enough plugging, they will eventually get AGI as >> just a >> >>> natural progression. Of, course, I think they field and the stuff >> they >> >>> use >> >>> has some missing bits, but that's just me. You all can tilt at all >> the >> >>> windmills y'all want, but they have money and talent at a level we >> can't >> >>> approach. >> >>> >> >> >> >> I have visited Google Research in Mountain View a number of times, and >> I >> >> know a bunch of researchers there fairly well... >> >> >> >> Of course their staff are intelligent and talented and so forth.... >> And >> >> they are well paid and have a lot of data and computing resources. >> >> >> >> I don't think their staff are supernaturally talented or anything like >> >> that.... Some of the folks I am working with on AI, in Hong Kong and >> >> Addis >> >> Ababa, are every bit as talented and clever as the Google Research >> >> staff.... Silicon Valley does not have a monopoly on brilliant tech >> >> talent, though they may well have the world's best publicists ;-) ... >> >> >> >> In the end, only a very miniscule portion of the resources of Google -- >> >> or >> >> any other current large tech company -- is oriented toward AGI in any >> >> direct or semi-direct way. When AGI is pursued within these firms, >> it's >> >> currently in teeny-tiny skunkworks projects.... And these skunkworks >> >> projects tend to get quasi-randomly dissolved when corporate priorities >> >> change (e.g. Sam Adam's now-dormant Joshua Blue AGI project at IBM; >> some >> >> previous Google AGI skunkworks projects I know about via personal >> >> commmunications...) >> >> >> >> So, consider the two possibilities: >> >> >> >> A) >> >> A large company with a teeny skunkworks AGI team, plus a lot of smart >> >> guys >> >> working on other projects peripherally related to AGI >> >> >> >> B) >> >> A small team working outside any large company or institution, with >> >> uncertain but non-zero funding, but focused directly on AGI >> >> >> >> ... Is it really so obvious that A is going to get to the end goal >> before >> >> B? I don't think so.... Based on general common sense, it seems >> either >> >> one is possible.... >> >> >> >> There is, of course, a scientific question here: Whether AGI can be >> >> achieved by basically integrating a bunch of components created for >> >> non-AGI >> >> purposes, with some sort of relatively simple "AGI controller" layered >> on >> >> top of it.... I personally don't think this can work. I think that >> >> even >> >> if the **ideas** underlying a bunch of narrow-AI components are >> >> sufficient >> >> to guide the creation of modules of an AGI system, in actual practice, >> >> the >> >> way narrow-AI systems are written generally precludes their integration >> >> into an AGI framework.... Integrating components into an AGI >> framework >> >> generally requires allowing each component to infuse knowledge and >> >> guidance >> >> into the others at a deep level, and generally narrow-AI software is >> not >> >> designed or coded to allow this; and redesigning a piece of narrow-AI >> >> software in such a way requires a lot of deep thinking as well as hard >> >> engineering.... I have been involved with this sort of work a lot... >> >> >> >> Finally, and hopefully without being insulting to anyone, I would like >> to >> >> point out that the folks who post on this list are not remotely >> >> representative of the community of "AGI researchers unaffiliated with >> >> large >> >> corporations." .... The folks who choose to spend a lot of time >> reading >> >> and writing on AGI e-mail lists form a quite particular sub-population. >> >> On >> >> average, they tend to have fewer professional qualifications and less >> >> funding for their work, than plenty of other AGI researchers out >> there... >> >> >> >> For instance, I think Kris Thorisson at Reykjavik University is making >> a >> >> real stab at AGI, as are the guys at Deep Mind in the UK (Demis >> Hassabis, >> >> Shane Legg etc., with funding from Founders Fund).... Dileep George is >> >> making his own effort, and will be keynoting at AGI-13 in Beijing.... >> >> So >> >> is Itamar Arel at U. Tennessee Knoxville (currently working on adding >> >> action & reinforcement to his deep learning perception system). There >> >> are >> >> plenty of others. These guys (like me) are not working for Google or >> M$ >> >> or IBM for a reason.... We have probably all been recruited by these >> >> firms >> >> repeatedly (I know I have), but prefer to pursue our own visions rather >> >> than being directed by corporate bosses, even though this means we will >> >> have a lot less funding and a lot more hassles.... Note that none of >> >> these other guys are on this email list... >> >> >> >> I myself find I have little time to pay attention to this list lately, >> >> because I'm spending half my time working on AGI, and half my time >> >> working >> >> on income-generating (and hopefully eventually wealth-generating) >> >> narrow-AI >> >> stuff (principally the application of machine learning and NLP to >> >> financial >> >> prediction). >> >> >> >> I think this list serves a useful purpose, in that someone who is >> utterly >> >> new to the AGI field can sign up and quickly find others with a common >> >> interest.... But please don't assume that it reflects the state of the >> >> art >> >> in non-big-corporate AGI projects !! >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Ben Goertzel >> >> (list founder, and former list administrator...) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/5037279-a88c7a6d> | >> >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------- >> > AGI >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> > RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >> > Modify Your Subscription: >> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/2997756-fc0b9b09 >> >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
