I think Ray Kurzweil is up to something AGI-ish at google, or so I gather from skimming the news. Maybe this was mentioned in the other thread which I haven't read yet. It sounded like one of a number of "10 years and it will work" projects that have surfaced in the news lately. Mike A
On 4/20/13, Logan Streondj <[email protected]> wrote: > It's true, Ben is really like an angel investor, > since he has a high profile AGI project, > and invests some time in interacting, > with our low-profile AGI projects, > or even AGI ideas for some. > > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Andrew... >> >> [changed the thread name] >> >> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 10:37 PM, Andrew G. Babian >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >>> So to throw something somewhat more positive out there, I just looked >>> at >>> the website of the people working at Google Research. They've got >>> literally tons of people in areas like machine perception, AI, machine >>> learning, machine translation. It does give me the feeling that there >>> are >>> people, and with enough plugging, they will eventually get AGI as just a >>> natural progression. Of, course, I think they field and the stuff they >>> use >>> has some missing bits, but that's just me. You all can tilt at all the >>> windmills y'all want, but they have money and talent at a level we can't >>> approach. >>> >> >> I have visited Google Research in Mountain View a number of times, and I >> know a bunch of researchers there fairly well... >> >> Of course their staff are intelligent and talented and so forth.... And >> they are well paid and have a lot of data and computing resources. >> >> I don't think their staff are supernaturally talented or anything like >> that.... Some of the folks I am working with on AI, in Hong Kong and >> Addis >> Ababa, are every bit as talented and clever as the Google Research >> staff.... Silicon Valley does not have a monopoly on brilliant tech >> talent, though they may well have the world's best publicists ;-) ... >> >> In the end, only a very miniscule portion of the resources of Google -- >> or >> any other current large tech company -- is oriented toward AGI in any >> direct or semi-direct way. When AGI is pursued within these firms, it's >> currently in teeny-tiny skunkworks projects.... And these skunkworks >> projects tend to get quasi-randomly dissolved when corporate priorities >> change (e.g. Sam Adam's now-dormant Joshua Blue AGI project at IBM; some >> previous Google AGI skunkworks projects I know about via personal >> commmunications...) >> >> So, consider the two possibilities: >> >> A) >> A large company with a teeny skunkworks AGI team, plus a lot of smart >> guys >> working on other projects peripherally related to AGI >> >> B) >> A small team working outside any large company or institution, with >> uncertain but non-zero funding, but focused directly on AGI >> >> ... Is it really so obvious that A is going to get to the end goal before >> B? I don't think so.... Based on general common sense, it seems either >> one is possible.... >> >> There is, of course, a scientific question here: Whether AGI can be >> achieved by basically integrating a bunch of components created for >> non-AGI >> purposes, with some sort of relatively simple "AGI controller" layered on >> top of it.... I personally don't think this can work. I think that >> even >> if the **ideas** underlying a bunch of narrow-AI components are >> sufficient >> to guide the creation of modules of an AGI system, in actual practice, >> the >> way narrow-AI systems are written generally precludes their integration >> into an AGI framework.... Integrating components into an AGI framework >> generally requires allowing each component to infuse knowledge and >> guidance >> into the others at a deep level, and generally narrow-AI software is not >> designed or coded to allow this; and redesigning a piece of narrow-AI >> software in such a way requires a lot of deep thinking as well as hard >> engineering.... I have been involved with this sort of work a lot... >> >> Finally, and hopefully without being insulting to anyone, I would like to >> point out that the folks who post on this list are not remotely >> representative of the community of "AGI researchers unaffiliated with >> large >> corporations." .... The folks who choose to spend a lot of time reading >> and writing on AGI e-mail lists form a quite particular sub-population. >> On >> average, they tend to have fewer professional qualifications and less >> funding for their work, than plenty of other AGI researchers out there... >> >> For instance, I think Kris Thorisson at Reykjavik University is making a >> real stab at AGI, as are the guys at Deep Mind in the UK (Demis Hassabis, >> Shane Legg etc., with funding from Founders Fund).... Dileep George is >> making his own effort, and will be keynoting at AGI-13 in Beijing.... >> So >> is Itamar Arel at U. Tennessee Knoxville (currently working on adding >> action & reinforcement to his deep learning perception system). There >> are >> plenty of others. These guys (like me) are not working for Google or M$ >> or IBM for a reason.... We have probably all been recruited by these >> firms >> repeatedly (I know I have), but prefer to pursue our own visions rather >> than being directed by corporate bosses, even though this means we will >> have a lot less funding and a lot more hassles.... Note that none of >> these other guys are on this email list... >> >> I myself find I have little time to pay attention to this list lately, >> because I'm spending half my time working on AGI, and half my time >> working >> on income-generating (and hopefully eventually wealth-generating) >> narrow-AI >> stuff (principally the application of machine learning and NLP to >> financial >> prediction). >> >> I think this list serves a useful purpose, in that someone who is utterly >> new to the AGI field can sign up and quickly find others with a common >> interest.... But please don't assume that it reflects the state of the >> art >> in non-big-corporate AGI projects !! >> >> -- >> Ben Goertzel >> (list founder, and former list administrator...) >> >> >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/5037279-a88c7a6d> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
